Re: [gentoo-user] Minimal world file.

[Grant Taylor]

On 2/3/21 2:42 PM, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote:
I did.  Sorry for the misinterpretation.  Not familiar with 
debootstrap.


No problem.  That's why I clarified.

The minimum required is probably just the stage3, plus a kernel package 
and a bootloader of some kind.


I'd like to do an old school stage1 or stage2 install / emerge of the 
root system if possible.


The method that tastytea mentioned seems quite interesting.  I'm giving 
it a try now in a scratch directory to see what all it builds.


The kernel will actually come from a User Mode Linux binary on the host 
system.  Launching that binary by hand also accounts for the boot loader.


The stage3 tarball is very minimal as it is.  Of course one man's 
minimal is another man's bloat... so you could probably trim some 
things like ./usr/share


Perhaps I should take another look at the stage3 tarball.  I've clearly 
learned that some of my other assumptions in this thread were wrong / 
sub-par.  So it is only logical that the one about the stage3 is also 
wrong / sub-par.


Same.  I only mentioned that because, as I already admitted, I was 
describing how to get as close to a full Ubuntu as possible.


Fair enough.  I thank you for your help based on your understanding.



--
Grant. . . .
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Re: [gentoo-user] Minimal world file.

[Matt Connell (Gmail)]

On Wed, 2021-02-03 at 14:31 -0700, Grant Taylor wrote:
> I'm thinking we might have different ideas of what debootstrap does.  Or 
> perhaps that you thought I meant a fuller Debian / Ubuntu system.

I did.  Sorry for the misinterpretation.  Not familiar with
debootstrap.

> I'm looking for the absolute minimum required for a Gentoo installation. 
>   (Preferably one that can manage it's own packages and not depend on 
> another system.)

The minimum required is probably just the stage3, plus a kernel package
and a bootloader of some kind.  The stage3 tarball is very minimal as
it is.  Of course one man's minimal is another man's bloat... so you
could probably trim some things like ./usr/share

> I would also VERY MUCH like to stay as far away from systemd et al. as 
> possible.

Same.  I only mentioned that because, as I already admitted, I was
describing how to get as close to a full Ubuntu as possible.

Re: [gentoo-user] Minimal world file.

[Grant Taylor]

On 2/3/21 1:48 PM, tastytea wrote:
You could install Gentoo into a directory without the build tools, 
but you would have to install packages and update them from a full 
Gentoo installation outside that directory. I've used that technique 
in my Docker experiments.[1]


emerge --root=/workdir sys-apps/busybox will install busybox and all 
build-time dependencies into /workdir.


Intriguing.

Thank you for that pointer.

That actually is close to what I'm messing with.  UML+NFS root

I could probably hack up with something where calls to emerge actually 
reach out to the full host and runs emerge with the proper --root.


[1] 



$ReadingList++



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Grant. . . .
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Re: [gentoo-user] Minimal world file.

[Grant Taylor]

On 2/3/21 2:21 PM, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote:
Probably selecting the "default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/gnome/systemd" 
profile would get you the closest to start with.


I hit send too soon.

Based on the new information, I suspect I actually want 
"default/linux/amd64/17.1".  (Or whatever is current at the time.)


Thank you for the help.



--
Grant. . . .
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Re: [gentoo-user] Minimal world file.

[Grant Taylor]

On 2/3/21 2:21 PM, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote:
@system depends on your profile.  So depending on what profile you 
select, you'll have a different set of implicitly selected packages.


The light bulb is starting to glow.


To answer your original question...


Probably selecting the "default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/gnome/systemd" 
profile would get you the closest to start with.  Of course it 
won't automatically select every package that Ubuntubian ships with, 
but that should only require you to add a couple of meta packages 
(like gnome- base/gnome-extra-apps for example) 


I'm thinking we might have different ideas of what debootstrap does.  Or 
perhaps that you thought I meant a fuller Debian / Ubuntu system.


I'm looking for the absolute minimum required for a Gentoo installation. 
 (Preferably one that can manage it's own packages and not depend on 
another system.)


I would also VERY MUCH like to stay as far away from systemd et al. as 
possible.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: [gentoo-user] Minimal world file.

[Matt Connell (Gmail)]

On Wed, 2021-02-03 at 13:40 -0700, Grant Taylor wrote:
> > Are you thinking about the system packages instead of the world file?
> 
> Yes.  That's what I meant.  Thank you for correcting me.
> 
> > If so, I think it is as small as it can be already.
> 
> That is / was my understanding as well.  But I was not certain.  Hence why I 
> asked.

@system depends on your profile.  So depending on what profile you
select, you'll have a different set of implicitly selected packages.

To answer your original question...

> What is the minimal world file to be somewhat conceptually similar to a 
> debootstrap install of Debian / Ubuntu?

Probably selecting the "default/linux/amd64/17.1/desktop/gnome/systemd"
profile would get you the closest to start with.  Of course it won't
automatically select every package that Ubuntubian ships with, but that
should only require you to add a couple of meta packages (like gnome-
base/gnome-extra-apps for example)

Re: [gentoo-user] Minimal world file.

[tastytea]

On 2021-02-03 14:29-0600 Dale  wrote:

> Grant Taylor wrote:
> > This may be a silly question, but I don't know, so I'm going to ask.
> >
> > What is the minimal world file to be somewhat conceptually similar
> > to a debootstrap install of Debian / Ubuntu?
> >
> > Is the world file that ships with stage3 the smallest it can be?  Or
> > are there things that can safely be removed?
> 
> If I recall correctly, the world file from a stage3 tarball is empty. 
> It only has the packages you want installed added there.  Are you
> thinking about the system packages instead of the world file?  If so,
> I think it is as small as it can be already.  After all, a stage3
> tarball can't even boot as it has no kernel, boot loader mechanism or
> anything. It's only enough that you can build from to suite your
> needs. 
> 
> Dale

You could install Gentoo into a directory without the build tools, but
you would have to install packages and update them from a full Gentoo
installation outside that directory. I've used that technique in my
Docker experiments.[1]

emerge --root=/workdir sys-apps/busybox will install busybox and all
build-time dependencies into /workdir.

Kind regards, tastytea

[1] 


-- 
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.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Minimal world file.

[Grant Taylor]

On 2/3/21 1:29 PM, Dale wrote:
If I recall correctly, the world file from a stage3 tarball is empty. 
It only has the packages you want installed added there.


You and Arve are correct.


Are you thinking about the system packages instead of the world file?


Yes.  That's what I meant.  Thank you for correcting me.


If so, I think it is as small as it can be already.


That is / was my understanding as well.  But I was not certain.  Hence 
why I asked.


After all, a stage3 tarball can't even boot as it has no kernel, 
boot loader mechanism or anything.  It's only enough that you can 
build from to suite your needs.


I largely agree.  But I thought there were also other binaries included 
that aren't strictly needed.




--
Grant. . . .
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Re: [gentoo-user] Minimal world file.

[Dale]

Grant Taylor wrote:
> This may be a silly question, but I don't know, so I'm going to ask.
>
> What is the minimal world file to be somewhat conceptually similar to
> a debootstrap install of Debian / Ubuntu?
>
> Is the world file that ships with stage3 the smallest it can be?  Or
> are there things that can safely be removed?
>
>
>


If I recall correctly, the world file from a stage3 tarball is empty. 
It only has the packages you want installed added there.  Are you
thinking about the system packages instead of the world file?  If so, I
think it is as small as it can be already.  After all, a stage3 tarball
can't even boot as it has no kernel, boot loader mechanism or anything.
It's only enough that you can build from to suite your needs. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Minimal world file.

[Arve Barsnes]

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 21:06, Grant Taylor
 wrote:
>
> This may be a silly question, but I don't know, so I'm going to ask.
>
> What is the minimal world file to be somewhat conceptually similar to a
> debootstrap install of Debian / Ubuntu?
>
> Is the world file that ships with stage3 the smallest it can be?  Or are
> there things that can safely be removed?

The world file in the stage3 downloads are empty, so fairly minimal :)

Regards,
Arve

[gentoo-user] Minimal world file.

[Grant Taylor]

This may be a silly question, but I don't know, so I'm going to ask.

What is the minimal world file to be somewhat conceptually similar to a 
debootstrap install of Debian / Ubuntu?


Is the world file that ships with stage3 the smallest it can be?  Or are 
there things that can safely be removed?




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die