[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Ubuntu isn't the devil
On Friday 08 June 2007 23:34, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: On Friday 08 June 2007, Hemmann, Volker Armin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about 'Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Ubuntu distros (Kubuntu, expecially) are really, really shiny and slick pieces of software. I just installed Kubuntu 7.04 at work and it's the more polished, ready-to-go, easy to use Linux distro I've ever seen. I use Gentoo on my home desktop for various reasons and because I have different needs, but the Linux community has only to learn from the Ubuntus. [snip] Or: there is a difference between userfriendly and made for idiots. Ubuntu being neither. ;) This is a bit [OT] on the [OT]: a)Difficult to install packages of choice: I tried to install TinyERP on a Ubuntu server (feisty) and it's fallen apart on python2.4-psycopg. I've tried different things (ref. http://tinyerp.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11122#11122 ) but could not get it to install and run. I suspect that this is not an exceptional experience because the week before it took me more than a day of digging and symlinking to get openbravo to install on the same box. In frustration I decided to install TinyERP on my Gentoo PC for the Ubuntu's server owner to try out, in case he changes his mind and saves me the hustle of trying to install it on Ubuntu. b)Upgrades I ran apt-get upgrade and dist-upgrade to upgrade to feisty and ended up having to reinstall, because the end product was unbootable. There were no warnings, no messages, no suggestions as to what config files might have needed editing (don't you just love etc-update). You might argue that all of the above are indicative of my lack of knowledge of binary distros, their dependency conflicts and in particular Ubuntu's inner works. You would be right, except that Ubuntu is meant to be idiot-proof. On the other hand my Gentoo experience has been comparatively much more painless and seriously less time consuming, despite needing to iron out some problems with the installation of postreSQL (a 15 minute exercise in total). Just my 2c's. PS. If you have any suggestions as to how I can complete the install of TinyERP on Ubuntu I'd be grateful if you can email me off list! :) -- Regards, Mick pgpjaMq0F3JRJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Ubuntu isn't the devil
Mick ha scritto: b)Upgrades I ran apt-get upgrade and dist-upgrade to upgrade to feisty and ended up having to reinstall, because the end product was unbootable. There were no warnings, no messages, no suggestions as to what config files might have needed editing (don't you just love etc-update). You might argue that all of the above are indicative of my lack of knowledge of binary distros, their dependency conflicts and in particular Ubuntu's inner works. You would be right, except that Ubuntu is meant to be idiot-proof. On the other hand my Gentoo experience has been comparatively much more painless and seriously less time consuming, despite needing to iron out some problems with the installation of postreSQL (a 15 minute exercise in total). Upgrades on Ubuntu, I agree, just suck. Nearly everyone will advise you to avoid dist-upgrades and just reinstall. I know of people that upgraded painlessly, but they're more the exception than the norm. That's one of the big reasons I don't want it on my desktop box and I'm extremly happy with Gentoo, that requires no full upgrade but works on incremental upgrades. That is THE thing that *buntus should learn hard from gentoo, in fact. m. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Ubuntu isn't the devil
Hemmann, Volker Armin ha scritto: I have several boot cds. And none of them booted as slow as kubuntu 7.04. The boot cd is slow as a molasses hell, but the installed system boots quite fast -slower than my Gentoo, but not significantly. nope, what made them the 'most popular distribution' was the fact that they were hyped even before they released the first version. There have been other easy-to-use distos before and after ubuntu - and I am sure most of them would overtake ubuntu, if they would be hyped the same way. I was of the same opinion, *before* trying it and using it for a year at work. I've used a bunch of other binary distros: Mandrake, Debian, Slackware. Still, Kubuntu beated them all. I was full of negative prejudices, just because of the hype, like you, but I had to admit it was a fscking good system. With quirky bugs here and there, of course. Oh, and about the installer: well, Gentoo even hasn't a functional graphical installer, AFAIK (the advice everyone hears on mls and forums is: DO NOT USE THE GRAPHICAL INSTALLER! -so why ship it, if it's ~?) Minor glitches like having to reformat a clean partition do not look like braindead to me. The Slackware installer, that's just braindead imho (even if I have fun using it). I don't love debian - it is just a distribution - and I am annoyed by hype. Any kind of hype. I remember very well the hype around Mandrake (I got almost insane, when I tried it. Lots and lots of sugarly cute graphics and colours and no obvious way to turn it off...), I have seen the smaller hype around lindows, I luckily joined gentoo before the hype and I have seen ubuntu beeing hyped and reported as the 'bestest' distribution of all time, before they even released anything. First *buntu releases were not 'bestest'. From 6.06 onward, it is at least in the first 3 places, for me. from my POV (you are free to see it differently) ubuntu is not userfriendly, it is idiot friendly. That's GNOME. Use KDE, and it won't be idiot friendly anymore. Kubuntu KDE doesn't look that much different from my KDE on Gentoo, apart it's configured a little better. By the way: I'd love to know how is kpdf patched. I use kpdf at work with Kubuntu and here on Gentoo, and they look pretty identical. I'm sure you're right: I just don't know what are the differences. m. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Ubuntu isn't the devil
On Samstag, 9. Juni 2007, b.n. wrote: Hemmann, Volker Armin ha scritto: I have several boot cds. And none of them booted as slow as kubuntu 7.04. The boot cd is slow as a molasses hell, but the installed system boots quite fast -slower than my Gentoo, but not significantly. nope, what made them the 'most popular distribution' was the fact that they were hyped even before they released the first version. There have been other easy-to-use distos before and after ubuntu - and I am sure most of them would overtake ubuntu, if they would be hyped the same way. I was of the same opinion, *before* trying it and using it for a year at work. I've used a bunch of other binary distros: Mandrake, Debian, Slackware. Still, Kubuntu beated them all. I was full of negative prejudices, just because of the hype, like you, but I had to admit it was a fscking good system. With quirky bugs here and there, of course. Oh, and about the installer: well, Gentoo even hasn't a functional graphical installer, AFAIK (the advice everyone hears on mls and forums is: DO NOT USE THE GRAPHICAL INSTALLER! -so why ship it, if it's ~?) Minor glitches like having to reformat a clean partition do not look like braindead to me. The Slackware installer, that's just braindead imho (even if I have fun using it). I hate the gentoo graphical installer with all my guts. IMHO it is just wrong ... I don't love debian - it is just a distribution - and I am annoyed by hype. Any kind of hype. I remember very well the hype around Mandrake (I got almost insane, when I tried it. Lots and lots of sugarly cute graphics and colours and no obvious way to turn it off...), I have seen the smaller hype around lindows, I luckily joined gentoo before the hype and I have seen ubuntu beeing hyped and reported as the 'bestest' distribution of all time, before they even released anything. First *buntu releases were not 'bestest'. From 6.06 onward, it is at least in the first 3 places, for me. no ubuntu release was 'the bestest distro ever' - except when you read all that stuff that was and is written with every release... from my POV (you are free to see it differently) ubuntu is not userfriendly, it is idiot friendly. That's GNOME. Use KDE, and it won't be idiot friendly anymore. Kubuntu KDE doesn't look that much different from my KDE on Gentoo, apart it's configured a little better. I tried Kubuntu... but I don't only look after the desktop - and it was the completly package. Boot, installer, sudo, that really got me... angry. By the way: I'd love to know how is kpdf patched. I use kpdf at work with Kubuntu and here on Gentoo, and they look pretty identical. I'm sure you're right: I just don't know what are the differences. I am too lazy to use google right now but this should give you are starting point (and also explain why kubuntu's and gentoo's kpdf are so similar - in b0rkiness) http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/articles/2007/01/28/today-in-gentoos-kde-land -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
