[gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
Hi, another sigh from an Arietta adventure... I sintalled Gentoo on an Arietta G25 (http://www.acmesystems.it/arietta). For this I used Robert Nelsons Kernel for armv5tel platforms, which boots fine (using at91bootstrap, no U-Boot). But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. The hardware is not to blame: Using the original Debian rootfs and the kernel 3.16.1 (Robert Nelsons kernel is 3.17.3.) the powerdown works fine. Firstly I blamed the kernel...but when using the 3.16.1 kernel and the Gentoo rootfs the problem remains. Then I copied the Gentoo shutdown to the Debian rootfs, boot that and tries to shutdown the Debian Linux with it. shutdown cries no /dev/initctl adn shutdowns the system only for rebooting it. Ok...seems to be the shutdown executable. I copied the Debian shutdown to Gentoo and tries that: The systems reboots. Slowly but surely I begin to think, that I dont understand anything at all of It would be relly good news, that... man shutdown on the Debian image informs me, that the manpages were not installed (embedded system...). Shutdown --version gives a short help of the usual options...but nothing more. What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Is there any shutdown guru ;) out there, who is able to shed some light into this problem ? :) Thank you very much in advance for any torch send into my direction! Best regards, Meino
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? About the only thing the kernel might have a role in is turning off the power. Almost all of the shutdown logic is in userspace and it isn't surprising that copying scripts between distros is going to cause issues since the whole service management component varies GREATLY across distros. Maybe if you're using systemd you could copy between distros since that is more standardized, but even then there can be differences. In a traditional sysvinit system usually shutting down is accomplished by changing runlevels, which immediately starts/stops anything in inittab (generally only gettys) and calls a script which does all the actual work. If the issue is that userspace shuts down fine but the system reboots instead of powering off that could be a couple of things which shouldn't be too hard to track down. An obvious question is whether the hardware even supports being powered off in the first place - this isn't an ATX motherboard. Powering off a system can sometimes be remarkably tricky depending on how standardized the platform is. I was reading an article on it a few years ago and I think linux actually implements several different mechanisms that get tried in series, with the final fallback being a halt without powering off. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, another sigh from an Arietta adventure... I sintalled Gentoo on an Arietta G25 (http://www.acmesystems.it/arietta). For this I used Robert Nelsons Kernel for armv5tel platforms, which boots fine (using at91bootstrap, no U-Boot). But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. The hardware is not to blame: Using the original Debian rootfs and the kernel 3.16.1 (Robert Nelsons kernel is 3.17.3.) the powerdown works fine. Firstly I blamed the kernel...but when using the 3.16.1 kernel and the Gentoo rootfs the problem remains. Then I copied the Gentoo shutdown to the Debian rootfs, boot that and tries to shutdown the Debian Linux with it. shutdown cries no /dev/initctl adn shutdowns the system only for rebooting it. Ok...seems to be the shutdown executable. I copied the Debian shutdown to Gentoo and tries that: The systems reboots. Slowly but surely I begin to think, that I dont understand anything at all of It would be relly good news, that... man shutdown on the Debian image informs me, that the manpages were not installed (embedded system...). Shutdown --version gives a short help of the usual options...but nothing more. What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Is there any shutdown guru ;) out there, who is able to shed some light into this problem ? :) Thank you very much in advance for any torch send into my direction! Best regards, Meino Just shooting in the dark here, try -h and -H but not at the same time? Maybe having both is clashing in some weird way??? Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com [14-12-01 19:16]: meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, another sigh from an Arietta adventure... I sintalled Gentoo on an Arietta G25 (http://www.acmesystems.it/arietta). For this I used Robert Nelsons Kernel for armv5tel platforms, which boots fine (using at91bootstrap, no U-Boot). But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. The hardware is not to blame: Using the original Debian rootfs and the kernel 3.16.1 (Robert Nelsons kernel is 3.17.3.) the powerdown works fine. Firstly I blamed the kernel...but when using the 3.16.1 kernel and the Gentoo rootfs the problem remains. Then I copied the Gentoo shutdown to the Debian rootfs, boot that and tries to shutdown the Debian Linux with it. shutdown cries no /dev/initctl adn shutdowns the system only for rebooting it. Ok...seems to be the shutdown executable. I copied the Debian shutdown to Gentoo and tries that: The systems reboots. Slowly but surely I begin to think, that I dont understand anything at all of It would be relly good news, that... man shutdown on the Debian image informs me, that the manpages were not installed (embedded system...). Shutdown --version gives a short help of the usual options...but nothing more. What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Is there any shutdown guru ;) out there, who is able to shed some light into this problem ? :) Thank you very much in advance for any torch send into my direction! Best regards, Meino Just shooting in the dark here, try -h and -H but not at the same time? Maybe having both is clashing in some weird way??? Dale :-) :-) Hi Dale, The Trouble shooting FAQ*) by acmesystems explicitely say shutdown -h -H now (and it works with the Debian rootfs)...but I will try the other shutdowns and will see, what happens, Best regards, Meino *) http://www.acmesystems.it/qa
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org [14-12-01 19:16]: On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? About the only thing the kernel might have a role in is turning off the power. Almost all of the shutdown logic is in userspace and it isn't surprising that copying scripts between distros is going to cause issues since the whole service management component varies GREATLY across distros. Maybe if you're using systemd you could copy between distros since that is more standardized, but even then there can be differences. In a traditional sysvinit system usually shutting down is accomplished by changing runlevels, which immediately starts/stops anything in inittab (generally only gettys) and calls a script which does all the actual work. If the issue is that userspace shuts down fine but the system reboots instead of powering off that could be a couple of things which shouldn't be too hard to track down. An obvious question is whether the hardware even supports being powered off in the first place - this isn't an ATX motherboard. Powering off a system can sometimes be remarkably tricky depending on how standardized the platform is. I was reading an article on it a few years ago and I think linux actually implements several different mechanisms that get tried in series, with the final fallback being a halt without powering off. -- Rich Hi Rich, AH! :) Thanks for the informations! From what you say, it is a kernel problem, since the kernel is the one who switches off the lights... But even if I use the same kernel as used for the Debian system it does not work... May be shutdown says power off the system and the kernel understands reboot the system? I mean: In principle the kernel would be able to poweroff the system but there are some communications difficulties with the guys from userland? ;) Best regards, Meino
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
2014-12-01 12:40 GMT-06:00 meino.cra...@gmx.de: Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org [14-12-01 19:16]: On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? About the only thing the kernel might have a role in is turning off the power. Almost all of the shutdown logic is in userspace and it isn't surprising that copying scripts between distros is going to cause issues since the whole service management component varies GREATLY across distros. Maybe if you're using systemd you could copy between distros since that is more standardized, but even then there can be differences. In a traditional sysvinit system usually shutting down is accomplished by changing runlevels, which immediately starts/stops anything in inittab (generally only gettys) and calls a script which does all the actual work. If the issue is that userspace shuts down fine but the system reboots instead of powering off that could be a couple of things which shouldn't be too hard to track down. An obvious question is whether the hardware even supports being powered off in the first place - this isn't an ATX motherboard. Powering off a system can sometimes be remarkably tricky depending on how standardized the platform is. I was reading an article on it a few years ago and I think linux actually implements several different mechanisms that get tried in series, with the final fallback being a halt without powering off. -- Rich Hi Rich, AH! :) Thanks for the informations! From what you say, it is a kernel problem, since the kernel is the one who switches off the lights... But even if I use the same kernel as used for the Debian system it does not work... May be shutdown says power off the system and the kernel understands reboot the system? I mean: In principle the kernel would be able to poweroff the system but there are some communications difficulties with the guys from userland? ;) Best regards, Meino I've always turned off across linux distros (BSD is other story) with: # shutdown -hP now the help says : -h: halt after shutdown. -P: halt action is to turn off power. -H: halt action is to just halt. I've not seen you using the -P flag.
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
Jc García jyo.gar...@gmail.com [14-12-01 20:36]: 2014-12-01 12:40 GMT-06:00 meino.cra...@gmx.de: Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org [14-12-01 19:16]: On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? About the only thing the kernel might have a role in is turning off the power. Almost all of the shutdown logic is in userspace and it isn't surprising that copying scripts between distros is going to cause issues since the whole service management component varies GREATLY across distros. Maybe if you're using systemd you could copy between distros since that is more standardized, but even then there can be differences. In a traditional sysvinit system usually shutting down is accomplished by changing runlevels, which immediately starts/stops anything in inittab (generally only gettys) and calls a script which does all the actual work. If the issue is that userspace shuts down fine but the system reboots instead of powering off that could be a couple of things which shouldn't be too hard to track down. An obvious question is whether the hardware even supports being powered off in the first place - this isn't an ATX motherboard. Powering off a system can sometimes be remarkably tricky depending on how standardized the platform is. I was reading an article on it a few years ago and I think linux actually implements several different mechanisms that get tried in series, with the final fallback being a halt without powering off. -- Rich Hi Rich, AH! :) Thanks for the informations! From what you say, it is a kernel problem, since the kernel is the one who switches off the lights... But even if I use the same kernel as used for the Debian system it does not work... May be shutdown says power off the system and the kernel understands reboot the system? I mean: In principle the kernel would be able to poweroff the system but there are some communications difficulties with the guys from userland? ;) Best regards, Meino I've always turned off across linux distros (BSD is other story) with: # shutdown -hP now the help says : -h: halt after shutdown. -P: halt action is to turn off power. -H: halt action is to just halt. I've not seen you using the -P flag. That's why the manufacturer of the Arietta G25 - Acmesystems said to use shutdown -h -H now for that purpose: http://www.acmesystems.it/qa Second question below the title Arietta G25 just on top of the page...
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
On Monday, December 01, 2014 7:34:35 PM meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com [14-12-01 19:16]: meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, another sigh from an Arietta adventure... I sintalled Gentoo on an Arietta G25 (http://www.acmesystems.it/arietta). For this I used Robert Nelsons Kernel for armv5tel platforms, which boots fine (using at91bootstrap, no U-Boot). But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. The hardware is not to blame: Using the original Debian rootfs and the kernel 3.16.1 (Robert Nelsons kernel is 3.17.3.) the powerdown works fine. Firstly I blamed the kernel...but when using the 3.16.1 kernel and the Gentoo rootfs the problem remains. Then I copied the Gentoo shutdown to the Debian rootfs, boot that and tries to shutdown the Debian Linux with it. shutdown cries no /dev/initctl adn shutdowns the system only for rebooting it. Ok...seems to be the shutdown executable. I copied the Debian shutdown to Gentoo and tries that: The systems reboots. Slowly but surely I begin to think, that I dont understand anything at all of It would be relly good news, that... man shutdown on the Debian image informs me, that the manpages were not installed (embedded system...). Shutdown --version gives a short help of the usual options...but nothing more. What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Is there any shutdown guru ;) out there, who is able to shed some light into this problem ? :) Thank you very much in advance for any torch send into my direction! Best regards, Meino Just shooting in the dark here, try -h and -H but not at the same time? Maybe having both is clashing in some weird way??? Dale :-) :-) Hi Dale, The Trouble shooting FAQ*) by acmesystems explicitely say shutdown -h -H now (and it works with the Debian rootfs)...but I will try the other shutdowns and will see, what happens, Best regards, Meino *) http://www.acmesystems.it/qa Looking at the code for sysvinit, all shutdown does is set some environment variables and switch runlevel. The actual shutdown is done by halt and it's done through the reboot system call with RB_POWER_OFF. So, since you said the Gentoo system doesn't work even with Debian's kernel and the shutdown, then it must be that either Debian has a different halt, or more likely your Gentoo system calls halt with different options. So check your inittab on Gentoo and make sure it calls halt in the same way. -- Fernando Rodriguez frodriguez.develo...@outlook.com PGP Key: http://keys.gnupg.net/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xF6CE157FF9525C1C signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
On Monday, December 01, 2014 7:34:35 PM meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com [14-12-01 19:16]: meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, another sigh from an Arietta adventure... I sintalled Gentoo on an Arietta G25 (http://www.acmesystems.it/arietta). For this I used Robert Nelsons Kernel for armv5tel platforms, which boots fine (using at91bootstrap, no U-Boot). But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. The hardware is not to blame: Using the original Debian rootfs and the kernel 3.16.1 (Robert Nelsons kernel is 3.17.3.) the powerdown works fine. Firstly I blamed the kernel...but when using the 3.16.1 kernel and the Gentoo rootfs the problem remains. Then I copied the Gentoo shutdown to the Debian rootfs, boot that and tries to shutdown the Debian Linux with it. shutdown cries no /dev/initctl adn shutdowns the system only for rebooting it. Ok...seems to be the shutdown executable. I copied the Debian shutdown to Gentoo and tries that: The systems reboots. Slowly but surely I begin to think, that I dont understand anything at all of It would be relly good news, that... man shutdown on the Debian image informs me, that the manpages were not installed (embedded system...). Shutdown --version gives a short help of the usual options...but nothing more. What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Is there any shutdown guru ;) out there, who is able to shed some light into this problem ? :) Thank you very much in advance for any torch send into my direction! Best regards, Meino Just shooting in the dark here, try -h and -H but not at the same time? Maybe having both is clashing in some weird way??? Dale :-) :-) Hi Dale, The Trouble shooting FAQ*) by acmesystems explicitely say shutdown -h -H now (and it works with the Debian rootfs)...but I will try the other shutdowns and will see, what happens, Best regards, Meino *) http://www.acmesystems.it/qa Also AFAICT the -H option just set an env variable INIT_HALT and it looks like OpenRC ignores it so look at your init scripts on Debian and see what it does when it is set. -- Fernando Rodriguez frodriguez.develo...@outlook.com PGP Key: http://keys.gnupg.net/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xF6CE157FF9525C1C signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 2:51 PM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Jc García jyo.gar...@gmail.com [14-12-01 20:36]: I've not seen you using the -P flag. That's why the manufacturer of the Arietta G25 - Acmesystems said to use shutdown -h -H now for that purpose: http://www.acmesystems.it/qa Second question below the title Arietta G25 just on top of the page... Have you just tried using -P to make sure that it doesn't work? The instructions also say to use Debian, not Gentoo. Since most of the shutdown behavior is in userspace and using components that vary significantly between distros, I wouldn't blindly follow the instructions written for one distro and expect it to just work with a different distro. Maybe Debian has some bug that makes -P not work, but -H does work. Maybe OpenRC doesn't have that bug. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
On Dec 1, 2014, at 23:03, Fernando Rodriguez frodriguez.develo...@outlook.com wrote: On Monday, December 01, 2014 7:34:35 PM meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com [14-12-01 19:16]: meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, another sigh from an Arietta adventure... I sintalled Gentoo on an Arietta G25 (http://www.acmesystems.it/arietta). For this I used Robert Nelsons Kernel for armv5tel platforms, which boots fine (using at91bootstrap, no U-Boot). But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. The hardware is not to blame: Using the original Debian rootfs and the kernel 3.16.1 (Robert Nelsons kernel is 3.17.3.) the powerdown works fine. Firstly I blamed the kernel...but when using the 3.16.1 kernel and the Gentoo rootfs the problem remains. Then I copied the Gentoo shutdown to the Debian rootfs, boot that and tries to shutdown the Debian Linux with it. shutdown cries no /dev/initctl adn shutdowns the system only for rebooting it. Ok...seems to be the shutdown executable. I copied the Debian shutdown to Gentoo and tries that: The systems reboots. Slowly but surely I begin to think, that I dont understand anything at all of It would be relly good news, that... man shutdown on the Debian image informs me, that the manpages were not installed (embedded system...). Shutdown --version gives a short help of the usual options...but nothing more. What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Is there any shutdown guru ;) out there, who is able to shed some light into this problem ? :) Thank you very much in advance for any torch send into my direction! Best regards, Meino Just shooting in the dark here, try -h and -H but not at the same time? Maybe having both is clashing in some weird way??? Dale :-) :-) Hi Dale, The Trouble shooting FAQ*) by acmesystems explicitely say shutdown -h -H now (and it works with the Debian rootfs)...but I will try the other shutdowns and will see, what happens, Best regards, Meino *) http://www.acmesystems.it/qa Looking at the code for sysvinit, all shutdown does is set some environment variables and switch runlevel. The actual shutdown is done by halt and it's done through the reboot system call with RB_POWER_OFF. So, since you said the Gentoo system doesn't work even with Debian's kernel and the shutdown, then it must be that either Debian has a different halt, or more likely your Gentoo system calls halt with different options. So check your inittab on Gentoo and make sure it calls halt in the same way. Hi meino The thing is as Fernando pointed out: Kernel powers off the hardware and a system call is used to instruct kernel to do so. Test your system. Perform a system call to shutdown the board. As you perform this system call the arietta will instantly eighter boot or shutdown. See system call man page to see the list of available system calls. This way you can make sure the system works as expected... When you have found the right system call, then you need to make init call that system call as the last command in run level 0. -- -Matti
