Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Wed, 23 May 2007 02:57:31 +0200, Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: In my years of gentoo, -D always caused problems and was almost never worth the trouble. It's not caused me such problems, but it is an option, so you opt to not use it and I'll opt to use it and we'll both be happy :) -- Neil Bothwick The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Wed, 23 May 2007 02:21:51 +0200, Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote: I think that I will probably be better off doing a stage three install, then doing an 'emerge -euD world' or similar before moving on from there. Err.. what was the purpose of that `emerge -e world` ? To rebuild the system with your chosen USE and CFLAGS. Of course, if you haven't changed your CFLAGS from the default, there's not point and 'emerge -uavDN world' is quite sufficient. -- Neil Bothwick Designing pages in HTML is like having sex in a bathtub. If you don't know anything about sex, it won't help to know a lot about bathtubs. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 07:01 +0200, Naga wrote: According to some devs on -dev (IRC) last night about 50 GiB if you want _all_ distfiles. hm, it has been a while since I last read the handbook. There were a small number of files to rsync back then :) -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Anyone can make an omelet with eggs. The trick is to make one with none. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Tuesday 22 May 2007 07:39:55 Iain Buchanan wrote: On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 07:01 +0200, Naga wrote: According to some devs on -dev (IRC) last night about 50 GiB if you want _all_ distfiles. Found it :) A-How much space does a distfiles mirror need? B-58G B-well, that's what it needs actually, probably in the docs it has it specified C-i'll check that actual present usage for you, one sec C-distfiles/ right now is 44Gb going out C-historical distfiles since early 2005 is ~150Gb (A,B,C == anon devs :)) hm, it has been a while since I last read the handbook. There were a small number of files to rsync back then :) or it was refering to the use of http-replicator (local http-mirror for use as distfiles mirror on LAN) -- Naga -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Dienstag, 22. Mai 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Here goes... How large is the package archive for gentoo, assuming a full copy of the portage tree, and all of the source tarballs in the distfiles directory of the average server? dunno, but huge. Would it be possible to draw down the whole archive all in one shot using wget or similar, dump it all into a directory on the hard drive, and direct portage there for the distribution files? yes, choose a mirror. download the complete distfiles dir of that mirror. wget can do that. I know this would basically be equivelent to making a local mirror of the distrservers, and I would have to make sure that my portage tree matches up to the files actually on the hard drive. ^^ What other concerns would I need to look at at this point. :P you will waste a lot of bandwidth and diskspace. The mirror might hate you for it. You will have lots and lots of packages like packageX.1.1, packageX.1.1.0, packageX.1.1.1 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
-Original Message- From: Hemmann, Volker Armin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 3:34 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question On Dienstag, 22. Mai 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Here goes... How large is the package archive for gentoo, assuming a full copy of the portage tree, and all of the source tarballs in the distfiles directory of the average server? dunno, but huge. snip you will waste a lot of bandwidth and diskspace. The mirror might hate you for it. You will have lots and lots of packages like packageX.1.1, packageX.1.1.0, packageX.1.1.1 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list I think that a better option may be to decide which software I want, and use emerge -ef package on each of the big packages to get just what I need. Maybe setting up a stage three install, with just the kernel, boot loader, and portage and using 'emerge -ef world' first might have the desired effect as far as getting the base system first. :-) That would also let me make sure that I have an up to date portage tree, and just the files I need and maybe a few more. ^^;; Does that sound better, and less likely to piss off the mirrors? :P --- Ken -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Dienstag, 22. Mai 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Hemmann, Volker Armin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 3:34 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question On Dienstag, 22. Mai 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Here goes... How large is the package archive for gentoo, assuming a full copy of the portage tree, and all of the source tarballs in the distfiles directory of the average server? dunno, but huge. snip you will waste a lot of bandwidth and diskspace. The mirror might hate you for it. You will have lots and lots of packages like packageX.1.1, packageX.1.1.0, packageX.1.1.1 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list I think that a better option may be to decide which software I want, and use emerge -ef package on each of the big packages to get just what I need. Maybe setting up a stage three install, with just the kernel, boot loader, and portage and using 'emerge -ef world' first might have the desired effect as far as getting the base system first. :-) That would also let me make sure that I have an up to date portage tree, and just the files I need and maybe a few more. ^^;; Does that sound better, and less likely to piss off the mirrors? :P yes ;) but why not set 'parallel-fetch' in your make.conf? That way portage should download packages, while compiling? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
-Original Message- From: Hemmann, Volker Armin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:02 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question snip That would also let me make sure that I have an up to date portage tree, and just the files I need and maybe a few more. ^^;; Does that sound better, and less likely to piss off the mirrors? :P yes ;) but why not set 'parallel-fetch' in your make.conf? That way portage should download packages, while compiling? -- The next computer I build will likely be a dual core (an X2 most likely), so that may be an excellent option. :P -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Tue, 22 May 2007 16:13:11 +0900 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Hemmann, Volker Armin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:02 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question snip That would also let me make sure that I have an up to date portage tree, and just the files I need and maybe a few more. ^^;; Does that sound better, and less likely to piss off the mirrors? :P yes ;) but why not set 'parallel-fetch' in your make.conf? That way portage should download packages, while compiling? -- The next computer I build will likely be a dual core (an X2 most likely), so that may be an excellent option. :P I don't think you'll need much processing power to parallel-fetch. I do it on every computer with a fast enough internet connection. The real limit is disk and network for downloading, not at all processor. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
-Original Message- From: Dan Farrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:27 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question On Tue, 22 May 2007 16:13:11 +0900 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The next computer I build will likely be a dual core (an X2 most likely), so that may be an excellent option. :P I don't think you'll need much processing power to parallel-fetch. I do it on every computer with a fast enough internet connection. The real limit is disk and network for downloading, not at all processor. -- I think RAM is an issue also. I have been messing with a laptop with 512MB of ram, and it is nowhere near as quick as what I am used too. ^^;; -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Tue, 22 May 2007 16:42:38 +0900, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think you'll need much processing power to parallel-fetch. I do it on every computer with a fast enough internet connection. The real limit is disk and network for downloading, not at all processor. I think RAM is an issue also. I have been messing with a laptop with 512MB of ram, and it is nowhere near as quick as what I am used too. ^^;; parallel-fetch needs significant amounts of neither RAM nor CPU power, all it needs is enough to run an instance of wget in the background. -- Neil Bothwick Committee (noun): A life form with six or more legs and no brain. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Tuesday 22 May 2007 08:30:44 Naga wrote: B-well, that's what it needs actually, probably in the docs it has it specified http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/source_mirrors.xml -- Bo Andresen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Tue, 22 May 2007 08:34:16 +0200 Hemmann, Volker Armin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dienstag, 22. Mai 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Here goes... How large is the package archive for gentoo, assuming a full copy of the portage tree, and all of the source tarballs in the distfiles directory of the average server? Bigger than you want to download, that 's almost guaranteed. I know this would basically be equivelent to making a local mirror of the distrservers, and I would have to make sure that my portage tree matches up to the files actually on the hard drive. ^^ What other concerns would I need to look at at this point. :P you will waste a lot of bandwidth and diskspace. The mirror might hate you for it. You will have lots and lots of packages like packageX.1.1, packageX.1.1.0, packageX.1.1.1 Not to mention you will spend much longer waiting for everything to download then you'd have to wait for everything do download on demand. It would probably be more desirable for you to keep a network-shared distfiles than mirror the servers. Then there's the age-old 'static hosts file' problem - just like the giant host file describing everyone took longer to transfer than to become outdated back in the glorious days of UNIX, it will also probably take longer to dowload all distfiles ever than it will for those distfiles to become outdated. In conclusion, I think this is a rather silly idea. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
-Original Message- From: Dan Farrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 12:27 AM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question Not to mention you will spend much longer waiting for everything to download then you'd have to wait for everything do download on demand. It would probably be more desirable for you to keep a network-shared distfiles than mirror the servers. Then there's the age-old 'static hosts file' problem - just like the giant host file describing everyone took longer to transfer than to become outdated back in the glorious days of UNIX, it will also probably take longer to dowload all distfiles ever than it will for those distfiles to become outdated. In conclusion, I think this is a rather silly idea. -- You are right I think. If nothing else the handbook says that Gentoo etiquite says not to rsync your portage tree more than once a day. For the average distro, once a week or even once a month is more than sufficient to keep up with the packages in the main branch. I think that I will probably be better off doing a stage three install, then doing an 'emerge -euD world' or similar before moving on from there. After that, I can just make sure to watch the FAQ's and walkthroughs when I install Xorg to make sure that I do it right. ^_^ Hopefully by the time I build the machine, either A) I can get a decent nVidia card, or B) the ATI drivers will be released. ^_^ I preffer nVidia, but if the ATI drivers go open source (crossing my fingers but not holding my breath), then that will be a good option as well. ^_^ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 02:13:18 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If nothing else the handbook says that Gentoo etiquite says not to rsync your portage tree more than once a day. For the average distro, once a week or even once a month is more than sufficient to keep up with the packages in the main branch. If you wait more than 30 days between syncs you risk missing messages in package.mask. Packages must be in package.mask for 30 days before being removed from the tree... I think that I will probably be better off doing a stage three install, then doing an 'emerge -euD world' or similar before moving on from there. Err.. what was the purpose of that `emerge -e world` ? (-u and -D does absolutely nothing when used with -e). -- Bo Andresen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Mittwoch, 23. Mai 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that I will probably be better off doing a stage three install, then doing an 'emerge -euD world' or similar before moving on from there. After that, I can just make sure to watch the FAQ's and walkthroughs when I install Xorg to make sure that I do it right. ^_^ why? there is no need to do that. emerge -u --newuse world would be much more 'interessting'. Btw, an deep world update ruined most of my weekend... don't do --deep if you don't have to. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: On Mittwoch, 23. Mai 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that I will probably be better off doing a stage three install, then doing an 'emerge -euD world' or similar before moving on from there. After that, I can just make sure to watch the FAQ's and walkthroughs when I install Xorg to make sure that I do it right. ^_^ why? there is no need to do that. emerge -u --newuse world would be much more 'interessting'. Btw, an deep world update ruined most of my weekend... don't do --deep if you don't have to. Funny, I sync every few days or so and always do a emerge -uvD world. I have less problems with that than just doing a -u world. Maybe it is when you do things consistantly that keeps things going well. ;-) Dale :-) :-) :-) :-) -- www.myspace.com/-remove-me-dalek1967 Copy n paste then remove the -remove-me- part.
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Mittwoch, 23. Mai 2007, Dale wrote: Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: On Mittwoch, 23. Mai 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that I will probably be better off doing a stage three install, then doing an 'emerge -euD world' or similar before moving on from there. After that, I can just make sure to watch the FAQ's and walkthroughs when I install Xorg to make sure that I do it right. ^_^ why? there is no need to do that. emerge -u --newuse world would be much more 'interessting'. Btw, an deep world update ruined most of my weekend... don't do --deep if you don't have to. Funny, I sync every few days or so and always do a emerge -uvD world. I have less problems with that than just doing a -u world. Maybe it is when you do things consistantly that keeps things going well and are you doing revdep-rebuilt afterwards? Last time gwenviev and kipi stuff broke, krita broke and some other stuff. Krita did not emerge because of some changed symbols, so I had to reemerge koffice-libs - something revdep-rebuild did not catch. It catches changed versions, but if a lib is recompiled because of an -r update and there are symbol problems, revdep will not see them... I had to rebuild kdepim and a lot of other stuff, just because of that -D update. It sucks to have to revdep-rebuild a douzend packages. It suckes even more when half of them fail because of some symbols and you have to reemerge three or four additional libs, so you can't just let it run unattended... In my years of gentoo, -D always caused problems and was almost never worth the trouble. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
-Original Message- From: Hemmann, Volker Armin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 9:58 AM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question On Mittwoch, 23. Mai 2007, Dale wrote: Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: On Mittwoch, 23. Mai 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that I will probably be better off doing a stage three install, then doing an 'emerge -euD world' or similar before moving on from there. After that, I can just make sure to watch the FAQ's and walkthroughs when I install Xorg to make sure that I do it right. ^_^ why? there is no need to do that. emerge -u --newuse world would be much more 'interessting'. Btw, an deep world update ruined most of my weekend... don't do --deep if you don't have to. Funny, I sync every few days or so and always do a emerge -uvD world. I have less problems with that than just doing a -u world. Maybe it is when you do things consistantly that keeps things going well and are you doing revdep-rebuilt afterwards? Last time gwenviev and kipi stuff broke, krita broke and some other stuff. Krita did not emerge because of some changed symbols, so I had to reemerge koffice-libs - something revdep-rebuild did not catch. It catches changed versions, but if a lib is recompiled because of an -r update and there are symbol problems, revdep will not see them... I had to rebuild kdepim and a lot of other stuff, just because of that -D update. It sucks to have to revdep-rebuild a douzend packages. It suckes even more when half of them fail because of some symbols and you have to reemerge three or four additional libs, so you can't just let it run unattended... In my years of gentoo, -D always caused problems and was almost never worth the trouble. -- I am glad I am asking questions now, and not after doing something dumb. :P I could SOOO mess things up on a new box. ^_^ ;-) I think the keyword of the day will be planning! ^_^ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: Dale wrote: Funny, I sync every few days or so and always do a emerge -uvD world. I have less problems with that than just doing a -u world. Maybe it is when you do things consistantly that keeps things going well and are you doing revdep-rebuilt afterwards? I have ran it a few times but it never wants to rebuild anything but gcc, which has been a bug for over a year I think. I did unmask java once and run revdep-rebuild and it wanted to rebuild OOo. That is all I can remember having trouble with. Last time gwenviev and kipi stuff broke, krita broke and some other stuff. Krita did not emerge because of some changed symbols, so I had to reemerge koffice-libs - something revdep-rebuild did not catch. It catches changed versions, but if a lib is recompiled because of an -r update and there are symbol problems, revdep will not see them... I had to rebuild kdepim and a lot of other stuff, just because of that -D update. It sucks to have to revdep-rebuild a douzend packages. It suckes even more when half of them fail because of some symbols and you have to reemerge three or four additional libs, so you can't just let it run unattended... In my years of gentoo, -D always caused problems and was almost never worth the trouble. I use KDE and have a lot of packages installed and I seem to be having better luck myself. I did used to just run -u world but that was when I ran into trouble. I guess we have something different on our system. Dale :-) :-) :-) :-) -- www.myspace.com/-remove-me-dalek1967 Copy n paste then remove the -remove-me- part.
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 13:06 +0900, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Here goes... How large is the package archive for gentoo, assuming a full copy of the portage tree, and all of the source tarballs in the distfiles directory of the average server? all of the distfiles? about 7 or 8 Gb I seem to recall reading on the handbook... Would it be possible to draw down the whole archive all in one shot using wget or similar, dump it all into a directory on the hard drive, and direct portage there for the distribution files? yes, of course, but what for? If you just want an offline installation, you can use -f to emerge which will download (fetch) only. or if you want to download on one machine, and transfer the files via disk or something to another machine, use -fp to get the list of files to download. of course, neither of these methods cover the fact that you might not know exactly everything you want to install... HTH, -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au His honour rooted in dishonour stood, And faith unfaithful kept him falsely true. -Alfred Lord Tennyson -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
-Original Message- From: Iain Buchanan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 1:30 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 13:06 +0900, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Here goes... How large is the package archive for gentoo, assuming a full copy of the portage tree, and all of the source tarballs in the distfiles directory of the average server? all of the distfiles? about 7 or 8 Gb I seem to recall reading on the handbook... Would it be possible to draw down the whole archive all in one shot using wget or similar, dump it all into a directory on the hard drive, and direct portage there for the distribution files? yes, of course, but what for? If you just want an offline installation, you can use -f to emerge which will download (fetch) only. or if you want to download on one machine, and transfer the files via disk or something to another machine, use -fp to get the list of files to download. of course, neither of these methods cover the fact that you might not know exactly everything you want to install... HTH, -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au That is why I was wondering about the size of the download. If it is less than 10GB, then that may be one hell of a download, but it is still within the realm of reason. I imagine that by the the time I am able to undertake such a task, the size of the repository will likely have grown. :P -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
On Tuesday 22 May 2007 06:06:42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Here goes... How large is the package archive for gentoo, assuming a full copy of the portage tree, and all of the source tarballs in the distfiles directory of the average server? Would it be possible to draw down the whole archive all in one shot using wget or similar, dump it all into a directory on the hard drive, and direct portage there for the distribution files? I know this would basically be equivelent to making a local mirror of the distrservers, and I would have to make sure that my portage tree matches up to the files actually on the hard drive. ^^ What other concerns would I need to look at at this point. :P According to some devs on -dev (IRC) last night about 50 GiB if you want _all_ distfiles. -- Naga -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
-Original Message- From: Naga [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:02 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question snip According to some devs on -dev (IRC) last night about 50 GiB if you want _all_ distfiles. -- Naga Hehehe. 50GB sounds more likely. ^_^ That is quite a bit. ^-^ It would probably take a few days for me to download everything, and then I would need to run a program again to make sure I got everything. :P A bit of research might be in order to decide just which files are actually needed/wanted for my circumstances at the time, then to download those. ^_^ -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] A Theoretical install Question
Naga wrote: According to some devs on -dev (IRC) last night about 50 GiB if you want _all_ distfiles. Holy smoke. O_O That's a lot of stuff. Dale :-) :-) :-) :-) -- www.myspace.com/-remove-me-dalek1967 Copy n paste then remove the -remove-me- part.
