Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2017-01-01 Thread Peter Humphrey 
On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 19:00:43 GMT Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 28/12/2016 16:58, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > Hello, Neil.
> > 
> > On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 02:09:10PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >> Don't forget split infinitives - the construct that is absolutely
> >> forbidden, but no one knows why. I had a production editor who picked
> >> me
> >> up every time I used one. I pointed out that that battle was lost as
> >> soon
> >> as Star Trek became mainstream.
> > 
> > I have a theory about this.  If you write "we need to thoroughly think
> > this through", what is the verb?  It tends to become "to
> > thoroughlythink" rather than "to think".  This coupling of adverb and
> > verb into a single word is probably undesirable.  Hence, no split
> > infinitives, please.
> > 
> > For what it's worth, in German, when there's a "zu" (to) in front of an
> > infinitive, it is _never_ separated by even the first part of a
> > separable verb, never mind an adverb.
> 
> Well, German is a language after all, a real one with definite rules.
> 
> English is a mish-mash of any good (and sometimes not so good) ideas
> that English people came into contact with. Oddly enough, of the 5 major
> input sources to modern English, the smallest contribution is from
> English itself. Go figure :-)
> 
> As for split infinitives, no-one familiar with types of words would ever
> think "thoroughly" is a verb, it's an adverb. The verb is "to think".

Actually, the finite verb was "need". The bit about thinking was in a 
subsidiary noun clause forming the object of the word "need".

> English is there so speakers can use it to communicate, not so that
> natural language parsers can have an easy time or grammarians can sit
> smugly and "be correct". The people created English, let the people
> decide what is proper

"Proper" is a good word here, as would be "conventional". "Correct" is a 
very bad word in reference to natural languages, in spite of its popularity. 
It implies that only one answer can ever be right, as in arithmetic.

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-29 Thread J. Roeleveld 
Sorry for double post...
Kmail:5 doesn't show email as being sent

Will check again after full synchronisation. (Mailfolder is quite large)


On December 29, 2016 6:54:33 PM GMT+01:00, "J. Roeleveld"  
wrote:
>On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 11:11:27 AM CET J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> On December 27, 2016 3:38:28 PM GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey 
> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, 18 December 2016 19:07:23 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> >> More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
>> >
>> >My first impression is one of horror. It's ghastly!
>> >
>> >I've never seen such profligate waste of screen space. I've attached
>a
>> >couple of screen shots to show you what I mean.
>> >
>> >Take the folder list, for example. I used to be able to show all
>those
>> >folders in one panel with no scroll-bars, with no difficulty reading
>> >them;
>> >now eight folders spill over. I may be able to find a more compact
>> >arrangement but this is the best I've managed so far. At least with
>> >kmail:4
>> >I could tweak Qt settings to condense it; now nothing I do makes any
>> >improvement.
>> >
>> >Then the message view. Message.png shows what your message looks
>like
>> >in
>> >this version of KMail (the message I'm replying to now). This is
>with
>> >all
>> >the bells and whistles I can find switched off.
>> >
>> >Next, after I'd emerged kde-apps/kmai-16.12.0, it was incomplete. I
>had
>> >to
>> >install several other packages to complete it, including the import
>> >wizard.
>> >Rather than messing about, I just emerged kdepim-meta and had done
>with
>> >it.
>> >
>> >Even after doing that, I get "No backend available for spell
>checking,"
>> >even
>> >though I've set everything up that I can see. Myspell and hunspell
>are
>> >both
>> >installed.
>> >
>> >In the message list I have next-to-no control over the font. I can
>set
>> >the
>> >basic one, but not those for unread, important or action items.
>They're
>> >now
>> >displayed in a reduced-density form of the basic font (while
>pretending
>> >
>> >they're going to use the same font as the message itself). The
>> >designers
>> >evidently know what I want better than I do (anyone might think this
>> >was
>> >Gnome).
>> >
>> >Nothing to do with KMail, but the display of gkrellm has changed
>> >dramatically. I use its Invisible theme, which hasn't actually been
>> >invisible since the switch from KDE-3 to 4, but it had a plain,
>> >unobtrusive
>> >grey scheme and showed what I wanted to see, clearly and with no
>drama.
>> >Now,
>> >the chart backgrounds have changed from charcoal-grey to a dark red,
>> >and
>> >what was grey is now a dreadful salmon-pink. Of course I can't see
>the
>> >red
>> >traces any longer. Perhaps I'm missing a KDE or Qt component.
>> >
>> >Oh, and when I start a reboot in KDE, akonadi crashes with a
>> >segmentation
>> >fault.
>> >
>> >I dare say version 16.12.0 of KMail-2 will make a decent platform
>for
>> >development, now that it's finally here, but a very great deal of
>work
>> >lies
>> >ahead. I can see that I'll be doing my fair share of shouting too,
>at
>> >it and
>> >at the devs.
>> >
>> >It's taken me about 30 hours to get this far. I ditched the old
>system
>> >altogether and built a new one on the kde-plasma profile. I didn't
>ask
>> >for
>> >anything in a slot 4, just slot 5 versions. I also ditched my old
>user
>> >and
>> >set up a new one from scratch. Headache? What headache?
>> >
>> >I think I'll have to go down the pub to drown my sorrows.
>> 
>> My impressions will start here. Emailing using mobile while the IMAP
>mail is
>> being synchronised. That usually takes a few hours.
>> 
>> Although that does appear to go faster now. I normally use Kontact
>for the
>> whole shebang. And it looks similar to version 4.
>> 
>> The upgrade went quite smoothly, with a very rigorous cleaning
>exercise of
>> anything wanting older versions. Am expecting some possible issues
>when
>> reinstalling those. But will see how that goes later today.
>> 
>> Full upgrade only took a couple of hours this morning.
>> 
>> --
>> Joost
>
>Ok, update time.
>I haven't been able to do much with it today as I had to go to the
>office.
>
>When I came back, various stuff had failed, but this is due to
>synchronizing 
>all email (old offline-imap option) to the desktop and the
>home-partition had 
>filled up.
>I cleaned up all the kdepim config-files and the database tables again
>and 
>started kontact with a clean config. It is, again, synchronizing.
>
>I did not experience any crashes of akonadi or kontact during normal
>use and 
>shutting down of applications (including akonadictl stop). 
>With the exception of what I mentioned before, which can not be blamed
>on 
>akonadi.
>
>Things I like so far:
>- Synchronisation seems to be faster, so is the rest of the interface.
>- Synchronisation of groupdav is smoother
>- There finally is a decent option to connect to office365 (including
>calendar)
>(with the above, I have only tested

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-29 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 11:11:27 AM CET J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On December 27, 2016 3:38:28 PM GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey 
 wrote:
> >On Sunday, 18 December 2016 19:07:23 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >> More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
> >
> >My first impression is one of horror. It's ghastly!
> >
> >I've never seen such profligate waste of screen space. I've attached a
> >couple of screen shots to show you what I mean.
> >
> >Take the folder list, for example. I used to be able to show all those
> >folders in one panel with no scroll-bars, with no difficulty reading
> >them;
> >now eight folders spill over. I may be able to find a more compact
> >arrangement but this is the best I've managed so far. At least with
> >kmail:4
> >I could tweak Qt settings to condense it; now nothing I do makes any
> >improvement.
> >
> >Then the message view. Message.png shows what your message looks like
> >in
> >this version of KMail (the message I'm replying to now). This is with
> >all
> >the bells and whistles I can find switched off.
> >
> >Next, after I'd emerged kde-apps/kmai-16.12.0, it was incomplete. I had
> >to
> >install several other packages to complete it, including the import
> >wizard.
> >Rather than messing about, I just emerged kdepim-meta and had done with
> >it.
> >
> >Even after doing that, I get "No backend available for spell checking,"
> >even
> >though I've set everything up that I can see. Myspell and hunspell are
> >both
> >installed.
> >
> >In the message list I have next-to-no control over the font. I can set
> >the
> >basic one, but not those for unread, important or action items. They're
> >now
> >displayed in a reduced-density form of the basic font (while pretending
> >
> >they're going to use the same font as the message itself). The
> >designers
> >evidently know what I want better than I do (anyone might think this
> >was
> >Gnome).
> >
> >Nothing to do with KMail, but the display of gkrellm has changed
> >dramatically. I use its Invisible theme, which hasn't actually been
> >invisible since the switch from KDE-3 to 4, but it had a plain,
> >unobtrusive
> >grey scheme and showed what I wanted to see, clearly and with no drama.
> >Now,
> >the chart backgrounds have changed from charcoal-grey to a dark red,
> >and
> >what was grey is now a dreadful salmon-pink. Of course I can't see the
> >red
> >traces any longer. Perhaps I'm missing a KDE or Qt component.
> >
> >Oh, and when I start a reboot in KDE, akonadi crashes with a
> >segmentation
> >fault.
> >
> >I dare say version 16.12.0 of KMail-2 will make a decent platform for
> >development, now that it's finally here, but a very great deal of work
> >lies
> >ahead. I can see that I'll be doing my fair share of shouting too, at
> >it and
> >at the devs.
> >
> >It's taken me about 30 hours to get this far. I ditched the old system
> >altogether and built a new one on the kde-plasma profile. I didn't ask
> >for
> >anything in a slot 4, just slot 5 versions. I also ditched my old user
> >and
> >set up a new one from scratch. Headache? What headache?
> >
> >I think I'll have to go down the pub to drown my sorrows.
> 
> My impressions will start here. Emailing using mobile while the IMAP mail is
> being synchronised. That usually takes a few hours.
> 
> Although that does appear to go faster now. I normally use Kontact for the
> whole shebang. And it looks similar to version 4.
> 
> The upgrade went quite smoothly, with a very rigorous cleaning exercise of
> anything wanting older versions. Am expecting some possible issues when
> reinstalling those. But will see how that goes later today.
> 
> Full upgrade only took a couple of hours this morning.
> 
> --
> Joost

Ok, update time.
I haven't been able to do much with it today as I had to go to the office.

When I came back, various stuff had failed, but this is due to synchronizing 
all email (old offline-imap option) to the desktop and the home-partition had 
filled up.
I cleaned up all the kdepim config-files and the database tables again and 
started kontact with a clean config. It is, again, synchronizing.

I did not experience any crashes of akonadi or kontact during normal use and 
shutting down of applications (including akonadictl stop). 
With the exception of what I mentioned before, which can not be blamed on 
akonadi.

Things I like so far:
- Synchronisation seems to be faster, so is the rest of the interface.
- Synchronisation of groupdav is smoother
- There finally is a decent option to connect to office365 (including calendar)
(with the above, I have only tested loading data, not tested modifying 
anything yet)

Things I miss:
- A configuration option inside "systemsettings", can not find the kcm for 
akonadi:5.
- I can't find the little "-" icons which were present in the screenshots from 
Peter Humphrey. I was actually hoping to test those, but they don't appear.

Things I don't like so far:
- The default colour scheme (unread emails

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-29 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 11:11:27 AM CET J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On December 27, 2016 3:38:28 PM GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey 
 wrote:
> >On Sunday, 18 December 2016 19:07:23 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >> More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
> >
> >My first impression is one of horror. It's ghastly!
> >
> >I've never seen such profligate waste of screen space. I've attached a
> >couple of screen shots to show you what I mean.
> >
> >Take the folder list, for example. I used to be able to show all those
> >folders in one panel with no scroll-bars, with no difficulty reading
> >them;
> >now eight folders spill over. I may be able to find a more compact
> >arrangement but this is the best I've managed so far. At least with
> >kmail:4
> >I could tweak Qt settings to condense it; now nothing I do makes any
> >improvement.
> >
> >Then the message view. Message.png shows what your message looks like
> >in
> >this version of KMail (the message I'm replying to now). This is with
> >all
> >the bells and whistles I can find switched off.
> >
> >Next, after I'd emerged kde-apps/kmai-16.12.0, it was incomplete. I had
> >to
> >install several other packages to complete it, including the import
> >wizard.
> >Rather than messing about, I just emerged kdepim-meta and had done with
> >it.
> >
> >Even after doing that, I get "No backend available for spell checking,"
> >even
> >though I've set everything up that I can see. Myspell and hunspell are
> >both
> >installed.
> >
> >In the message list I have next-to-no control over the font. I can set
> >the
> >basic one, but not those for unread, important or action items. They're
> >now
> >displayed in a reduced-density form of the basic font (while pretending
> >
> >they're going to use the same font as the message itself). The
> >designers
> >evidently know what I want better than I do (anyone might think this
> >was
> >Gnome).
> >
> >Nothing to do with KMail, but the display of gkrellm has changed
> >dramatically. I use its Invisible theme, which hasn't actually been
> >invisible since the switch from KDE-3 to 4, but it had a plain,
> >unobtrusive
> >grey scheme and showed what I wanted to see, clearly and with no drama.
> >Now,
> >the chart backgrounds have changed from charcoal-grey to a dark red,
> >and
> >what was grey is now a dreadful salmon-pink. Of course I can't see the
> >red
> >traces any longer. Perhaps I'm missing a KDE or Qt component.
> >
> >Oh, and when I start a reboot in KDE, akonadi crashes with a
> >segmentation
> >fault.
> >
> >I dare say version 16.12.0 of KMail-2 will make a decent platform for
> >development, now that it's finally here, but a very great deal of work
> >lies
> >ahead. I can see that I'll be doing my fair share of shouting too, at
> >it and
> >at the devs.
> >
> >It's taken me about 30 hours to get this far. I ditched the old system
> >altogether and built a new one on the kde-plasma profile. I didn't ask
> >for
> >anything in a slot 4, just slot 5 versions. I also ditched my old user
> >and
> >set up a new one from scratch. Headache? What headache?
> >
> >I think I'll have to go down the pub to drown my sorrows.
> 
> My impressions will start here. Emailing using mobile while the IMAP mail is
> being synchronised. That usually takes a few hours.
> 
> Although that does appear to go faster now. I normally use Kontact for the
> whole shebang. And it looks similar to version 4.
> 
> The upgrade went quite smoothly, with a very rigorous cleaning exercise of
> anything wanting older versions. Am expecting some possible issues when
> reinstalling those. But will see how that goes later today.
> 
> Full upgrade only took a couple of hours this morning.
> 
> --
> Joost

Ok, update time.
I haven't been able to do much with it today as I had to go to the office.

When I came back, various stuff had failed, but this is due to synchronizing 
all email (old offline-imap option) to the desktop and the home-partition had 
filled up.
I cleaned up all the kdepim config-files and the database tables again and 
started kontact with a clean config. It is, again, synchronizing.

I did not experience any crashes of akonadi or kontact during normal use and 
shutting down of applications (including akonadictl stop). 
With the exception of what I mentioned before, which can not be blamed on 
akonadi.

Things I like so far:
- Synchronisation seems to be faster, so is the rest of the interface.
- Synchronisation of groupdav is smoother
- There finally is a decent option to connect to office365 (including calendar)
(with the above, I have only tested loading data, not tested modifying 
anything yet)

Things I miss:
- A configuration option inside "systemsettings", can not find the kcm for 
akonadi:5.
- I can't find the little "-" icons which were present in the screenshots from 
Peter Humphrey. I was actually hoping to test those, but they don't appear.

Things I don't like so far:
- The default colour scheme (unread emails

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Neil Bothwick 
On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 19:01:30 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > I'm British, lost causes are a speciality.
> 
> lost causes like trying to get KMail-5 working?

Lost, not pointless, I gave up on KMail years ago!


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Cross a tagline and a tribble? You get a full HD...


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Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On December 28, 2016 6:01:30 PM GMT+01:00, Alan McKinnon 
 wrote:
>On 28/12/2016 16:01, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 10:57:12 +, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> 
 As a native English speaking pedant, I would throw "a die" or "some
 dice" to decide, dice is the plural :P  
>>>
>>> So would I, fifty years ago. Not now though; that one's long since
>been 
>>> lost.
>> 
>> I'm British, lost causes are a speciality.
>> 
>> 
>
>lost causes like trying to get KMail-5 working?

That's actually not much of a lost cause.
It is actually working here.

And I even have a decent connection to office365 (needed for work as they think 
it's a good idea to use them). Akonadi:5 has a EWS module (still in testing) 
which works.

--
Joost


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Alan McKinnon 
On 28/12/2016 16:01, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 10:57:12 +, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> 
>>> As a native English speaking pedant, I would throw "a die" or "some
>>> dice" to decide, dice is the plural :P  
>>
>> So would I, fifty years ago. Not now though; that one's long since been 
>> lost.
> 
> I'm British, lost causes are a speciality.
> 
> 

lost causes like trying to get KMail-5 working?

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Alan McKinnon 
On 28/12/2016 16:58, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Neil.
> 
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 02:09:10PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> 
>> Don't forget split infinitives - the construct that is absolutely
>> forbidden, but no one knows why. I had a production editor who picked me
>> up every time I used one. I pointed out that that battle was lost as soon
>> as Star Trek became mainstream.
> 
> I have a theory about this.  If you write "we need to thoroughly think
> this through", what is the verb?  It tends to become "to
> thoroughlythink" rather than "to think".  This coupling of adverb and
> verb into a single word is probably undesirable.  Hence, no split
> infinitives, please.
> 
> For what it's worth, in German, when there's a "zu" (to) in front of an
> infinitive, it is _never_ separated by even the first part of a
> separable verb, never mind an adverb.


Well, German is a language after all, a real one with definite rules.

English is a mish-mash of any good (and sometimes not so good) ideas
that English people came into contact with. Oddly enough, of the 5 major
input sources to modern English, the smallest contribution is from
English itself. Go figure :-)

As for split infinitives, no-one familiar with types of words would ever
think "thoroughly" is a verb, it's an adverb. The verb is "to think".

English is there so speakers can use it to communicate, not so that
natural language parsers can have an easy time or grammarians can sit
smugly and "be correct". The people created English, let the people
decide what is proper


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Alan Mackenzie 
Hello, Neil.

On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 02:09:10PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote:

> Don't forget split infinitives - the construct that is absolutely
> forbidden, but no one knows why. I had a production editor who picked me
> up every time I used one. I pointed out that that battle was lost as soon
> as Star Trek became mainstream.

I have a theory about this.  If you write "we need to thoroughly think
this through", what is the verb?  It tends to become "to
thoroughlythink" rather than "to think".  This coupling of adverb and
verb into a single word is probably undesirable.  Hence, no split
infinitives, please.

For what it's worth, in German, when there's a "zu" (to) in front of an
infinitive, it is _never_ separated by even the first part of a
separable verb, never mind an adverb.

> -- 
> Neil Bothwick

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Michael Mol 
On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 11:08:03 AM EST J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On December 28, 2016 11:03:47 AM GMT+01:00, Neil Bothwick 
 wrote:
> >On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 11:56:17 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >> Ah, now I see.
> >> 
> >> Peter didn't post, Neil did.
> >> 
> >> Too much eggnog, that's my story and I'm sticking to it
> >
> >Peter's probably still at the pub.
> 
> English grammar discussions are always fun to follow.
> Makes one tempted to make mistakes on porpuse. :)

*porpoise



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Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 02:09:10 PM Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 10:56:16 +, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > Nice repartee on the side there. I'm actually just resurfacing from yet
> > another user account creation, because the message database yesterday
> > was just an indescribable mess.
> > 
> > Touch wood, this one might have succeeded after a good deal of finger-
> > twiddling to give KMail time to do all its marking as read, moving
> > folders into place and so on. Also frequent reboots to establish a firm
> > basis.
> > 
> > It means that I've lost any messages from the last two days, but at
> > least I have Joost's detailed one to continue from.
> 
> Maybe this would be a good time to set up a local IMAP server...

I tell KMail to store messages locally as well (for performance reasons)
Not sure how it functions when the IMAP server is on the same host. Should 
perform decently as well.
A 1GB link isn't sufficient with the amount of email I have on the server. Not 
when also using that same link for a variety of other things.
Never mind the uplink of my ISP.

> > ("Never end a sentence with a preposition" - so we were taught.
> > Personally, I think a preposition is a perfectly good word to end a
> > sentence with. An adverb will also do nicely.)
> 
> Don't forget split infinitives - the construct that is absolutely
> forbidden, but no one knows why. I had a production editor who picked me
> up every time I used one. I pointed out that that battle was lost as soon
> as Star Trek became mainstream.

I actually got that nearly complete. Only missing the Animated Series on 
physical media. Am hoping that CBS will convert Voyager and DS9 to Bluray as 
well.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Neil Bothwick 
On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 10:56:16 +, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> Nice repartee on the side there. I'm actually just resurfacing from yet 
> another user account creation, because the message database yesterday
> was just an indescribable mess.
> 
> Touch wood, this one might have succeeded after a good deal of finger-
> twiddling to give KMail time to do all its marking as read, moving
> folders into place and so on. Also frequent reboots to establish a firm
> basis.
> 
> It means that I've lost any messages from the last two days, but at
> least I have Joost's detailed one to continue from.

Maybe this would be a good time to set up a local IMAP server...
 
> ("Never end a sentence with a preposition" - so we were taught.
> Personally, I think a preposition is a perfectly good word to end a
> sentence with. An adverb will also do nicely.)

Don't forget split infinitives - the construct that is absolutely
forbidden, but no one knows why. I had a production editor who picked me
up every time I used one. I pointed out that that battle was lost as soon
as Star Trek became mainstream.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Q. How many radical feminists does it take to change a light bulb?
A. Two - one to change the bulb and one to write a book about the passive
role of the socket.


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Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Neil Bothwick 
On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 11:08:03 +, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> English grammar discussions are always fun to follow.
> Makes one tempted to make mistakes on porpuse. :)

You're only saying that so you can claim all future mistakes are
deliberate :P


-- 
Neil Bothwick

c:>Press Enter to Exit


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Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Neil Bothwick 
On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 10:57:12 +, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > As a native English speaking pedant, I would throw "a die" or "some
> > dice" to decide, dice is the plural :P  
> 
> So would I, fifty years ago. Not now though; that one's long since been 
> lost.

I'm British, lost causes are a speciality.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I'm not anti-social, I'm just not user friendly


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Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 11:29:53 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> (I've tried correcting indent markers in quoted bits but I've probably got
> some of them wrong.)

I can figure most of it :)

> On Tuesday, 27 December 2016 19:54:57 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On December 27, 2016 5:39:09 PM GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey
> 
> > > >You see how spaced out the folder list is? There's no setting for that
> > >
> > >in KMail as far as I can see. The Qt Configuration tool has an Interface
> > >tab. Under Global Strut you can set minimum width and height. The default
> > >is zero, giving Qt free rein to do what it likes, but I could set those
> > >to 1 and kmail:4 would tuck all those folder entries up so that they
> > >fitted without scrolling. It has no effect on kmail:5 though.
> > 
> > Is the qt config for qt4 or qt5?
> 
> It's version 4.8.7, so maybe it's for qt:4, which would explain its not
> affecting kmail:5  :)

If you know what it changes for qt4, you might be able to do duplicate the 
changes for qt5.
Alternatively, test:
% eix qt5ct
* x11-misc/qt5ct
 Available versions:  ~0.27-r1 {+systray}
 Homepage:https://sourceforge.net/projects/qt5ct/
 Description: Qt5 configuration tool, similar to qtconfig for Qt4

(Found it by googling for "qtconfig qt5", one of the results mentioned qt5ct)

> > You might need to find the settings/tool to apply to qt5. Kmail:4 is qt4
> > based. (I never played with that tool, which package is it? And which
> > command do I run?)
> 
> It's in the KDE system applications menu.

See above :)

> [OT]
> 
> > Speaking of English. I always wonder which would be a better match for
> > someone who uses English mostly to deal with international friends and
> > computers. I am Dutch myself, which means it's officially a second
> > language for me. (Always wondered about that, as I speak several
> > languages and fluency is simply a matter of which I speak regularly). I
> > usually throw a dice to decide between US and UK whenever I get asked.
> 
> (Do you mean regularly, or frequently?  :P )
> Personally, I'd be deeply embarrassed if anyone thought I might be American.
> I have even been known to rebuke youngsters (gently) for saying "you're
> welcome" as being an Americanism.

Is it? I've come across that while living in the UK.

> On the other hand, while I was working in Minneapolis 25 years ago, some
> people though I was Australian! Not sure which is worse...
> [/OT]

Well were those people who actually ever left Minneapolis?

> > > >Nothing to do with KMail, but the display of gkrellm has changed
> > > >dramatically. I use its Invisible theme, which hasn't actually been
> > > >invisible since the switch from KDE-3 to 4, but it had a plain,
> > > >unobtrusive grey scheme and showed what I wanted to see, clearly and
> > > >with no drama.
> 
> Looks like a bug report is needed against gkrellm.

I agree.

> > >I've found a lot more KDE-5 meta-packages and installed those, but they
> > >haven't helped with this.
> > 
> > What about plasma-meta?
> > I think that pulls in the whole shebang?
> 
> I thought so too, but it doesn't. It seems to pull in just the bits you need
> to run a plasma desktop; applications are another matter.

I have the following meta packages in my world file:
kde-apps/kde-apps-meta
kde-apps/kde-meta
kde-plasma/plasma-meta

Not sure if those 3 are all needed. Will be clearing out the desktop later.

> > Again, could be related to killing akonadi while indexing.
> > Or corruption in the database caused by the segfaults.
> > You could try:
> > # akonadictl fsck
> 
> Good idea. I will if this new incarnation starts acting up again.

Mine doesn't yet. Looks ok, but did need to restart kontact once as it wasn't 
displaying the folder-contents earlier.

> > I usually restart akonadi first to ensure I can follow the messages in a
> > konsole:
> > in konsole 1:
> > # akonadictl stop
> > # akonadictl status (repeat this till it says stopped)
> > # akonadictl start
> > 
> > > in konsole 2:
> > # akonadictl fsck
> > 
> > Then monitor in konsole 1 to see what it does. It actually reports on it's
> > fsck status there with what it finds and fixes.
> 
> Yes, I've operated that way a few times, but just using the one Konsole.

1 Konsole, multiple tabs...

> > Personally, I think akonadi is a nice idea for when people store all their
> > email locally. As I use IMAP to store my email, it does a lot of
> > duplicate efforts. But with that, I have luckily been spared from the
> > duplicate email or dissapearing email issues others have encountered.
> 
> My ISP doesn't offer IMAP so I have to use POP. It suits me anyway, having
> all my e-mails under my own control.

I run my own IMAP server. My laptop, desktop and mobile phone all connect to 
that. This way I have all my emails available wherever I am.

> > >> >I dare say version 16.12.0 of KMail-2 will make a decent platform
> > >> >for development, now that it's finally here, but a very great

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Peter Humphrey 
(I've tried correcting indent markers in quoted bits but I've probably got 
some of them wrong.)

On Tuesday, 27 December 2016 19:54:57 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On December 27, 2016 5:39:09 PM GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey 

--->8

> > >You see how spaced out the folder list is? There's no setting for that
> >in KMail as far as I can see. The Qt Configuration tool has an Interface
> >tab. Under Global Strut you can set minimum width and height. The default
> >is zero, giving Qt free rein to do what it likes, but I could set those
> >to 1 and kmail:4 would tuck all those folder entries up so that they
> >fitted without scrolling. It has no effect on kmail:5 though.
> 
> Is the qt config for qt4 or qt5?

It's version 4.8.7, so maybe it's for qt:4, which would explain its not 
affecting kmail:5  :)

> You might need to find the settings/tool to apply to qt5. Kmail:4 is qt4
> based. (I never played with that tool, which package is it? And which
> command do I run?)

It's in the KDE system applications menu.

--->8

[OT]
> Speaking of English. I always wonder which would be a better match for
> someone who uses English mostly to deal with international friends and
> computers. I am Dutch myself, which means it's officially a second
> language for me. (Always wondered about that, as I speak several
> languages and fluency is simply a matter of which I speak regularly). I
> usually throw a dice to decide between US and UK whenever I get asked.

(Do you mean regularly, or frequently?  :P )
Personally, I'd be deeply embarrassed if anyone thought I might be American. 
I have even been known to rebuke youngsters (gently) for saying "you're 
welcome" as being an Americanism.

On the other hand, while I was working in Minneapolis 25 years ago, some 
people though I was Australian! Not sure which is worse...
[/OT]

> > >Nothing to do with KMail, but the display of gkrellm has changed
> > >dramatically. I use its Invisible theme, which hasn't actually been
> > >invisible since the switch from KDE-3 to 4, but it had a plain,
> > >unobtrusive grey scheme and showed what I wanted to see, clearly and
> > >with no drama.

Looks like a bug report is needed against gkrellm.

-->8

> >I've found a lot more KDE-5 meta-packages and installed those, but they
> >haven't helped with this.
> 
> What about plasma-meta?
> I think that pulls in the whole shebang?

I thought so too, but it doesn't. It seems to pull in just the bits you need 
to run a plasma desktop; applications are another matter.

-->8
 
> Again, could be related to killing akonadi while indexing.
> Or corruption in the database caused by the segfaults.
> You could try:
> # akonadictl fsck

Good idea. I will if this new incarnation starts acting up again.

> I usually restart akonadi first to ensure I can follow the messages in a
> konsole:
> in konsole 1:
> # akonadictl stop
> # akonadictl status (repeat this till it says stopped)
> # akonadictl start
> 
> > in konsole 2:
> # akonadictl fsck
> 
> Then monitor in konsole 1 to see what it does. It actually reports on it's
> fsck status there with what it finds and fixes.

Yes, I've operated that way a few times, but just using the one Konsole.

> Personally, I think akonadi is a nice idea for when people store all their
> email locally. As I use IMAP to store my email, it does a lot of
> duplicate efforts. But with that, I have luckily been spared from the
> duplicate email or dissapearing email issues others have encountered.

My ISP doesn't offer IMAP so I have to use POP. It suits me anyway, having 
all my e-mails under my own control.

> >> >I dare say version 16.12.0 of KMail-2 will make a decent platform
> >> >for development, now that it's finally here, but a very great deal of
> >> >work lies ahead. I can see that I'll be doing my fair share of
> >> >shouting too, at it and at the devs.
> >> 
> >> I'll try to get my desktop converted this week. And will join in the
> >> bugreporting party.
> >
> >It would be good to have someone to compare notes with.
> >
> >--->8
> 
> Give me some time to do the installation. Will need to first kill kde4
> parts on the desktop before doing the upgrade. I run mostly stable. Will
> see how that goes.

OK. In my case I must have had some stray USE flags in the kde:4 system 
which were impossible to sort out with kde:5. I ended up ditching the whole 
lot and installing a new system, setting make.profile to plasma right at the 
outset and only setting USE flags that portage demanded. Took a while.

> >> >I think I'll have to go down the pub to drown my sorrows.
> >> 
> >> Just don't climb behind the wheel of a car afterwards
> >
> >No, it's just a wee stroll. Takes longer to get my shoes on.   :-)
> 
> Slippers and warm socks not an option? Saves a lot of time, I would think.
> And the alcohol will make you feel warm enough, including your toes

I'm not going walking round the village in my slippers, thanks all the same. 
We might have a maritime climate here, but even so...

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On December 27, 2016 3:38:28 PM GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey 
 wrote:
>On Sunday, 18 December 2016 19:07:23 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:
>
>> More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
>
>My first impression is one of horror. It's ghastly!
>
>I've never seen such profligate waste of screen space. I've attached a 
>couple of screen shots to show you what I mean.
>
>Take the folder list, for example. I used to be able to show all those 
>folders in one panel with no scroll-bars, with no difficulty reading
>them; 
>now eight folders spill over. I may be able to find a more compact 
>arrangement but this is the best I've managed so far. At least with
>kmail:4 
>I could tweak Qt settings to condense it; now nothing I do makes any 
>improvement.
>
>Then the message view. Message.png shows what your message looks like
>in 
>this version of KMail (the message I'm replying to now). This is with
>all 
>the bells and whistles I can find switched off.
>
>Next, after I'd emerged kde-apps/kmai-16.12.0, it was incomplete. I had
>to 
>install several other packages to complete it, including the import
>wizard. 
>Rather than messing about, I just emerged kdepim-meta and had done with
>it.
>
>Even after doing that, I get "No backend available for spell checking,"
>even 
>though I've set everything up that I can see. Myspell and hunspell are
>both 
>installed.
>
>In the message list I have next-to-no control over the font. I can set
>the 
>basic one, but not those for unread, important or action items. They're
>now 
>displayed in a reduced-density form of the basic font (while pretending
>
>they're going to use the same font as the message itself). The
>designers 
>evidently know what I want better than I do (anyone might think this
>was 
>Gnome).
>
>Nothing to do with KMail, but the display of gkrellm has changed 
>dramatically. I use its Invisible theme, which hasn't actually been 
>invisible since the switch from KDE-3 to 4, but it had a plain,
>unobtrusive 
>grey scheme and showed what I wanted to see, clearly and with no drama.
>Now, 
>the chart backgrounds have changed from charcoal-grey to a dark red,
>and 
>what was grey is now a dreadful salmon-pink. Of course I can't see the
>red 
>traces any longer. Perhaps I'm missing a KDE or Qt component.
>
>Oh, and when I start a reboot in KDE, akonadi crashes with a
>segmentation 
>fault.
>
>I dare say version 16.12.0 of KMail-2 will make a decent platform for 
>development, now that it's finally here, but a very great deal of work
>lies 
>ahead. I can see that I'll be doing my fair share of shouting too, at
>it and 
>at the devs.
>
>It's taken me about 30 hours to get this far. I ditched the old system 
>altogether and built a new one on the kde-plasma profile. I didn't ask
>for 
>anything in a slot 4, just slot 5 versions. I also ditched my old user
>and 
>set up a new one from scratch. Headache? What headache?
>
>I think I'll have to go down the pub to drown my sorrows.

My impressions will start here. Emailing using mobile while the IMAP mail is 
being synchronised. That usually takes a few hours.

Although that does appear to go faster now. I normally use Kontact for the 
whole shebang. And it looks similar to version 4.

The upgrade went quite smoothly, with a very rigorous cleaning exercise of 
anything wanting older versions.
Am expecting some possible issues when reinstalling those. But will see how 
that goes later today.

Full upgrade only took a couple of hours this morning. 

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On December 28, 2016 11:03:47 AM GMT+01:00, Neil Bothwick  
wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 11:56:17 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
>> Ah, now I see.
>> 
>> Peter didn't post, Neil did.
>> 
>> Too much eggnog, that's my story and I'm sticking to it
>
>Peter's probably still at the pub.

English grammar discussions are always fun to follow.
Makes one tempted to make mistakes on porpuse. :)

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On December 27, 2016 5:39:09 PM GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey 
 wrote:
>On Tuesday, 27 December 2016 15:19:29 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> On December 27, 2016 3:38:28 PM GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey 
> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, 18 December 2016 19:07:23 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> >> More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
>> >
>> >My first impression is one of horror. It's ghastly!
>> >
>> >I've never seen such profligate waste of screen space. I've attached
>a
>> >couple of screen shots to show you what I mean.
>> 
>> Thanks :)
>> 
>> >Take the folder list, for example. I used to be able to show all
>those
>> >folders in one panel with no scroll-bars, with no difficulty reading
>> >them; now eight folders spill over. I may be able to find a more
>compact
>> >arrangement but this is the best I've managed so far. At least with
>> >kmail:4 I could tweak Qt settings to condense it; now nothing I do
>makes
>> >any improvement.
>> 
>> I would expect font settings. In kmail:4 there is a display part in
>the
>> settings menu. I never did anything directly with Qt to chamge
>anything.
>> I have too many folders anyway for it to fit (unless I would have a
>BIG
>> 4K screen...)
>
>You see how spaced out the folder list is? There's no setting for that
>in 
>KMail as far as I can see. The Qt Configuration tool has an Interface
>tab. 
>Under Global Strut you can set minimum width and height. The default is
>
>zero, giving Qt free rein to do what it likes, but I could set those to
>1 
>and kmail:4 would tuck all those folder entries up so that they fitted 
>without scrolling. It has no effect on kmail:5 though.
>
>> >Then the message view. Message.png shows what your message looks
>like
>> >in this version of KMail (the message I'm replying to now). This is
>with
>> >all the bells and whistles I can find switched off.
>> 
>> That actually looks nice to me. Do the minus (-) blocks actually
>allow the
>> quotes to be folded up?
>
>To each his own of course, but for myself, I just want the text with
>some 
>quoting. Yes the minus blocks do fold up, but all of them or none.
>There's 
>no individual control.
>
>I found a new header selection. After switching it back from 5.2 style
>to 
>Fancy, it's back the way I like it.
>
>> >Next, after I'd emerged kde-apps/kmai-16.12.0, it was incomplete. I
>had
>> >to
>> >install several other packages to complete it, including the import
>> >wizard.
>> >Rather than messing about, I just emerged kdepim-meta and had done
>with
>> >it.
>> >
>> >Even after doing that, I get "No backend available for spell
>checking,"
>> >even
>> >though I've set everything up that I can see. Myspell and hunspell
>are
>> >both
>> >installed.
>> 
>> Hmm... that's not nice. Then again, I only use spell check for
>documents.
>> Not emails. Never really trusted those ever since I saw dictionaries
>get
>> automatically ruined by 'do you want to add this word to the
>dictionary'.
>
>Kmail:4 used to default to Australian English, no matter how many times
>I 
>reminded it I'm in the UK. This one has no back-end at all.
>
>--->8
>
>> >Nothing to do with KMail, but the display of gkrellm has changed
>> >dramatically. I use its Invisible theme, which hasn't actually been
>> >invisible since the switch from KDE-3 to 4, but it had a plain,
>> >unobtrusive
>> >grey scheme and showed what I wanted to see, clearly and with no
>drama.
>> >Now,
>> >the chart backgrounds have changed from charcoal-grey to a dark red,
>> >and
>> >what was grey is now a dreadful salmon-pink. Of course I can't see
>the
>> >red
>> >traces any longer. Perhaps I'm missing a KDE or Qt component.
>> 
>> Always possible. I tend to just install the meta stuff and be done
>with
>> it.
>
>I've found a lot more KDE-5 meta-packages and installed those, but they
>
>haven't helped with this.
>
>> >Oh, and when I start a reboot in KDE, akonadi crashes with a
>> >segmentation fault.
>> 
>> That is a bug. Hope it gets ironed out soon. Maybe still busy
>indexing
>> your emails?
>
>Could be. I'll try leaving it for an hour or two.
>
>Since I wrote, I've noticed that the messages I imported from kmail
>archive 
>are not all in the right folders - about 2000 have magically jumped
>from the 
>Purchases folder to the inbox. I'm also seeing a reversion to that old 
>problem of silly numbers of duplicates appearing in random places at
>random 
>times. I had hoped that would be among the first things to be ironed
>out in 
>the :5 version.
>
>> >I dare say version 16.12.0 of KMail-2 will make a decent platform
>for
>> >development, now that it's finally here, but a very great deal of
>work
>> >lies ahead. I can see that I'll be doing my fair share of shouting
>too,
>> >at it and at the devs.
>> 
>> I'll try to get my desktop converted this week. And will join in the
>> bugreporting party.
>
>It would be good to have someone to compare notes with.
>
>--->8
>
>> >I think I'll have to go down the pub to drown my sorrows.
>> 
>>

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Peter Humphrey 
On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 11:54:53 GMT Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 28/12/2016 11:54, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 11:45:18 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >> Same with die and dice - one day you will be correct but Peter and I
> >> will be wrong
> > 
> > Peter seems to have become the list's statutory grammar pedant, so much
> > so that even when someone else makes a correction, he gets the blame.
> > ;-)
> 
> And he missed Joost's incorrect use of "then" instead of "than" ;-)

Beneath notice, chum.

-- 
Regards,
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Peter Humphrey 
On Tuesday, 27 December 2016 20:36:36 GMT Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 19:54:57 +, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > Speaking of English. I always wonder which would be a better match for
> > someone who uses English mostly to deal with international friends and
> > computers. I am Dutch myself, which means it's officially a second
> > language for me. (Always wondered about that, as I speak several
> > languages and fluency is simply a matter of which I speak regularly). I
> > usually throw a dice to decide between US and UK whenever I get asked.
> 
> As a native English speaking pedant, I would throw "a die" or "some dice"
> to decide, dice is the plural :P

So would I, fifty years ago. Not now though; that one's long since been 
lost.

-- 
Regards,
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Peter Humphrey 
On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 10:03:47 GMT Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 11:56:17 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > Ah, now I see.
> > 
> > Peter didn't post, Neil did.
> > 
> > Too much eggnog, that's my story and I'm sticking to it
> 
> Peter's probably still at the pub.

Nice repartee on the side there. I'm actually just resurfacing from yet 
another user account creation, because the message database yesterday was 
just an indescribable mess.

Touch wood, this one might have succeeded after a good deal of finger-
twiddling to give KMail time to do all its marking as read, moving folders 
into place and so on. Also frequent reboots to establish a firm basis.

It means that I've lost any messages from the last two days, but at least I 
have Joost's detailed one to continue from.

("Never end a sentence with a preposition" - so we were taught. Personally, 
I think a preposition is a perfectly good word to end a sentence with. An 
adverb will also do nicely.)

-- 
Regards,
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Neil Bothwick 
On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 11:56:17 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> Ah, now I see.
> 
> Peter didn't post, Neil did.
> 
> Too much eggnog, that's my story and I'm sticking to it

Peter's probably still at the pub.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"He's dead, Jim.  You get his phaser, I'll grab his wallet."


pgpwfzvTNtQ1V.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Alan McKinnon 
On 28/12/2016 11:54, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 11:45:18 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
>> Same with die and dice - one day you will be correct but Peter and I
>> will be wrong
> 
> Peter seems to have become the list's statutory grammar pedant, so much
> so that even when someone else makes a correction, he gets the blame. ;-)
> 


Ah, now I see.

Peter didn't post, Neil did.

Too much eggnog, that's my story and I'm sticking to it


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Alan McKinnon 
On 28/12/2016 11:54, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 11:45:18 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
>> Same with die and dice - one day you will be correct but Peter and I
>> will be wrong
> 
> Peter seems to have become the list's statutory grammar pedant, so much
> so that even when someone else makes a correction, he gets the blame. ;-)
> 

And he missed Joost's incorrect use of "then" instead of "than" ;-)

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Neil Bothwick 
On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 11:45:18 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> Same with die and dice - one day you will be correct but Peter and I
> will be wrong

Peter seems to have become the list's statutory grammar pedant, so much
so that even when someone else makes a correction, he gets the blame. ;-)

-- 
Neil Bothwick

I thought I saw the light at the end of the tunnel...
but it was just some sod with a torch bringing me more work!


pgpTdMBshg5ha.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Neil Bothwick 
On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 09:28:25 +, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> >>I  
> >> usually throw a dice to decide between US and UK whenever I get  
> >>asked.
> >
> >As a native English speaking pedant, I would throw "a die" or "some
> >dice"
> >to decide, dice is the plural :P  
> 
> I stand corrected. Always thought the word was both singular and plural.
> 
> Probably because most games with dice have more then 1.

More likely because most English speakers also get it wrong.

Julius Caesar's "the die is cast" makes more sense once you know the
difference. Otherwise it sounds like he was referring to a manufacturing
process that wasn't invented until centuries later.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

MIPS: Meaningless Indication of Processor Speed


pgp0WfBRRBPmU.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread Alan McKinnon 
On 28/12/2016 11:28, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On December 27, 2016 9:36:36 PM GMT+01:00, Neil Bothwick  
> wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 19:54:57 +, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking of English. I always wonder which would be a better match
>> for
>>> someone who uses English mostly to deal with international friends
>> and
>>> computers. I am Dutch myself, which means it's officially a second
>>> language for me. (Always wondered about that, as I speak several
>>> languages and fluency is simply a matter of which I speak regularly).
>> I
>>> usually throw a dice to decide between US and UK whenever I get
>> asked.
>>
>> As a native English speaking pedant, I would throw "a die" or "some
>> dice"
>> to decide, dice is the plural :P
> 
> I stand corrected. Always thought the word was both singular and plural.
> 
> Probably because most games with dice have more then 1.
> 
> Still wondering which the majority of non-english-natives would use.
> Is there an Irish, Welsh or Scottish dictionary available? (Sequence chosen 
> randomly)

There are really only two:

- dictionaries printed in England (Oxford's collection is the de-facto
definitive)
- dictionaries printed in the U.S.A., which all seem to follow the local
lingo i.e. New York English is a very different beast from L.A. English

English is a funny language, almost unique. It absorbs new words and
grammars from the local language like the Borg. And some of us (myself
included) want to keep the rules the same even though they are
constantly changing from new input :-)

How do you think "sheep" got to be both singular and plural? Wasn't
always like that, it became that way and now it's the correct form.

Same with die and dice - one day you will be correct but Peter and I
will be wrong


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-28 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On December 27, 2016 9:36:36 PM GMT+01:00, Neil Bothwick  
wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 19:54:57 +, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>
>> Speaking of English. I always wonder which would be a better match
>for
>> someone who uses English mostly to deal with international friends
>and
>> computers. I am Dutch myself, which means it's officially a second
>> language for me. (Always wondered about that, as I speak several
>> languages and fluency is simply a matter of which I speak regularly).
>I
>> usually throw a dice to decide between US and UK whenever I get
>asked.
>
>As a native English speaking pedant, I would throw "a die" or "some
>dice"
>to decide, dice is the plural :P

I stand corrected. Always thought the word was both singular and plural.

Probably because most games with dice have more then 1.

Still wondering which the majority of non-english-natives would use.
Is there an Irish, Welsh or Scottish dictionary available? (Sequence chosen 
randomly)

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-27 Thread Neil Bothwick 
On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 19:54:57 +, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> Speaking of English. I always wonder which would be a better match for
> someone who uses English mostly to deal with international friends and
> computers. I am Dutch myself, which means it's officially a second
> language for me. (Always wondered about that, as I speak several
> languages and fluency is simply a matter of which I speak regularly). I
> usually throw a dice to decide between US and UK whenever I get asked.

As a native English speaking pedant, I would throw "a die" or "some dice"
to decide, dice is the plural :P


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WORM: (n.) acronym for Write Once, Read Mangled. Used to describe a
  normally-functioning computer disk of the very latest design.


pgp84eUdsm5cU.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-27 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On December 27, 2016 5:39:09 PM GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey 
 wrote:
>On Tuesday, 27 December 2016 15:19:29 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> On December 27, 2016 3:38:28 PM GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey 
> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, 18 December 2016 19:07:23 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> >> More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
>> >
>> >My first impression is one of horror. It's ghastly!
>> >
>> >I've never seen such profligate waste of screen space. I've attached
>a
>> >couple of screen shots to show you what I mean.
>> 
>> Thanks :)
>> 
>> >Take the folder list, for example. I used to be able to show all
>those
>> >folders in one panel with no scroll-bars, with no difficulty reading
>> >them; now eight folders spill over. I may be able to find a more
>compact
>> >arrangement but this is the best I've managed so far. At least with
>> >kmail:4 I could tweak Qt settings to condense it; now nothing I do
>makes
>> >any improvement.
>> 
>> I would expect font settings. In kmail:4 there is a display part in
>the
>> settings menu. I never did anything directly with Qt to chamge
>anything.
>> I have too many folders anyway for it to fit (unless I would have a
>BIG
>> 4K screen...)
>
>You see how spaced out the folder list is? There's no setting for that
>in 
>KMail as far as I can see. The Qt Configuration tool has an Interface
>tab. 
>Under Global Strut you can set minimum width and height. The default is
>
>zero, giving Qt free rein to do what it likes, but I could set those to
>1 
>and kmail:4 would tuck all those folder entries up so that they fitted 
>without scrolling. It has no effect on kmail:5 though.

Is the qt config for qt4 or qt5?
You might need to find the settings/tool to apply to qt5. Kmail:4 is qt4 based.
(I never played with that tool, which package is it? And which command do I 
run?)

>> >Then the message view. Message.png shows what your message looks
>like
>> >in this version of KMail (the message I'm replying to now). This is
>with
>> >all the bells and whistles I can find switched off.
>> 
>> That actually looks nice to me. Do the minus (-) blocks actually
>allow the
>> quotes to be folded up?
>
>To each his own of course, but for myself, I just want the text with
>some 
>quoting. Yes the minus blocks do fold up, but all of them or none.
>There's 
>no individual control.

That sounds like it's only halfway implemented. Hope they fix that.
The quoting is coloured like that based on a 'simple' algorithm, I would guess.
In kmail4, I think that was configurable?

>I found a new header selection. After switching it back from 5.2 style
>to 
>Fancy, it's back the way I like it.

Is that similar to the 'fancy' style from kmail4? I find that one the more 
natural option myself.

>> >Next, after I'd emerged kde-apps/kmai-16.12.0, it was incomplete. I
>had
>> >to
>> >install several other packages to complete it, including the import
>> >wizard.
>> >Rather than messing about, I just emerged kdepim-meta and had done
>with
>> >it.
>> >
>> >Even after doing that, I get "No backend available for spell
>checking,"
>> >even
>> >though I've set everything up that I can see. Myspell and hunspell
>are
>> >both
>> >installed.
>> 
>> Hmm... that's not nice. Then again, I only use spell check for
>documents.
>> Not emails. Never really trusted those ever since I saw dictionaries
>get
>> automatically ruined by 'do you want to add this word to the
>dictionary'.
>
>Kmail:4 used to default to Australian English, no matter how many times
>I 
>reminded it I'm in the UK. This one has no back-end at all.
>
>--->8

Speaking of English. I always wonder which would be a better match for someone 
who uses English mostly to deal with international friends and computers. I am 
Dutch myself, which means it's officially a second language for me. (Always 
wondered about that, as I speak several languages and fluency is simply a 
matter of which I speak regularly).
I usually throw a dice to decide between US and UK whenever I get asked.

>> >Nothing to do with KMail, but the display of gkrellm has changed
>> >dramatically. I use its Invisible theme, which hasn't actually been
>> >invisible since the switch from KDE-3 to 4, but it had a plain,
>> >unobtrusive
>> >grey scheme and showed what I wanted to see, clearly and with no
>drama.
>> >Now,
>> >the chart backgrounds have changed from charcoal-grey to a dark red,
>> >and
>> >what was grey is now a dreadful salmon-pink. Of course I can't see
>the
>> >red
>> >traces any longer. Perhaps I'm missing a KDE or Qt component.
>> 
>> Always possible. I tend to just install the meta stuff and be done
>with
>> it.
>
>I've found a lot more KDE-5 meta-packages and installed those, but they
>
>haven't helped with this.

What about plasma-meta?
I think that pulls in the whole shebang?

>> >Oh, and when I start a reboot in KDE, akonadi crashes with a
>> >segmentation fault.
>> 
>> That is a bug. Hope it gets ironed out soon. Maybe still busy
>indexing
>>

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-27 Thread Peter Humphrey 
On Tuesday, 27 December 2016 15:19:29 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On December 27, 2016 3:38:28 PM GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey 
 wrote:
> >On Sunday, 18 December 2016 19:07:23 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >> More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
> >
> >My first impression is one of horror. It's ghastly!
> >
> >I've never seen such profligate waste of screen space. I've attached a
> >couple of screen shots to show you what I mean.
> 
> Thanks :)
> 
> >Take the folder list, for example. I used to be able to show all those
> >folders in one panel with no scroll-bars, with no difficulty reading
> >them; now eight folders spill over. I may be able to find a more compact
> >arrangement but this is the best I've managed so far. At least with
> >kmail:4 I could tweak Qt settings to condense it; now nothing I do makes
> >any improvement.
> 
> I would expect font settings. In kmail:4 there is a display part in the
> settings menu. I never did anything directly with Qt to chamge anything.
> I have too many folders anyway for it to fit (unless I would have a BIG
> 4K screen...)

You see how spaced out the folder list is? There's no setting for that in 
KMail as far as I can see. The Qt Configuration tool has an Interface tab. 
Under Global Strut you can set minimum width and height. The default is 
zero, giving Qt free rein to do what it likes, but I could set those to 1 
and kmail:4 would tuck all those folder entries up so that they fitted 
without scrolling. It has no effect on kmail:5 though.

> >Then the message view. Message.png shows what your message looks like
> >in this version of KMail (the message I'm replying to now). This is with
> >all the bells and whistles I can find switched off.
> 
> That actually looks nice to me. Do the minus (-) blocks actually allow the
> quotes to be folded up?

To each his own of course, but for myself, I just want the text with some 
quoting. Yes the minus blocks do fold up, but all of them or none. There's 
no individual control.

I found a new header selection. After switching it back from 5.2 style to 
Fancy, it's back the way I like it.

> >Next, after I'd emerged kde-apps/kmai-16.12.0, it was incomplete. I had
> >to
> >install several other packages to complete it, including the import
> >wizard.
> >Rather than messing about, I just emerged kdepim-meta and had done with
> >it.
> >
> >Even after doing that, I get "No backend available for spell checking,"
> >even
> >though I've set everything up that I can see. Myspell and hunspell are
> >both
> >installed.
> 
> Hmm... that's not nice. Then again, I only use spell check for documents.
> Not emails. Never really trusted those ever since I saw dictionaries get
> automatically ruined by 'do you want to add this word to the dictionary'.

Kmail:4 used to default to Australian English, no matter how many times I 
reminded it I'm in the UK. This one has no back-end at all.

--->8

> >Nothing to do with KMail, but the display of gkrellm has changed
> >dramatically. I use its Invisible theme, which hasn't actually been
> >invisible since the switch from KDE-3 to 4, but it had a plain,
> >unobtrusive
> >grey scheme and showed what I wanted to see, clearly and with no drama.
> >Now,
> >the chart backgrounds have changed from charcoal-grey to a dark red,
> >and
> >what was grey is now a dreadful salmon-pink. Of course I can't see the
> >red
> >traces any longer. Perhaps I'm missing a KDE or Qt component.
> 
> Always possible. I tend to just install the meta stuff and be done with
> it.

I've found a lot more KDE-5 meta-packages and installed those, but they 
haven't helped with this.

> >Oh, and when I start a reboot in KDE, akonadi crashes with a
> >segmentation fault.
> 
> That is a bug. Hope it gets ironed out soon. Maybe still busy indexing
> your emails?

Could be. I'll try leaving it for an hour or two.

Since I wrote, I've noticed that the messages I imported from kmail archive 
are not all in the right folders - about 2000 have magically jumped from the 
Purchases folder to the inbox. I'm also seeing a reversion to that old 
problem of silly numbers of duplicates appearing in random places at random 
times. I had hoped that would be among the first things to be ironed out in 
the :5 version.

> >I dare say version 16.12.0 of KMail-2 will make a decent platform for
> >development, now that it's finally here, but a very great deal of work
> >lies ahead. I can see that I'll be doing my fair share of shouting too,
> >at it and at the devs.
> 
> I'll try to get my desktop converted this week. And will join in the
> bugreporting party.

It would be good to have someone to compare notes with.

--->8

> >I think I'll have to go down the pub to drown my sorrows.
> 
> Just don't climb behind the wheel of a car afterwards

No, it's just a wee stroll. Takes longer to get my shoes on.   :-)

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-27 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On December 27, 2016 3:38:28 PM GMT+01:00, Peter Humphrey 
 wrote:
>On Sunday, 18 December 2016 19:07:23 GMT J. Roeleveld wrote:
>
>> More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
>
>My first impression is one of horror. It's ghastly!
>
>I've never seen such profligate waste of screen space. I've attached a 
>couple of screen shots to show you what I mean.

Thanks :)

>Take the folder list, for example. I used to be able to show all those 
>folders in one panel with no scroll-bars, with no difficulty reading
>them; 
>now eight folders spill over. I may be able to find a more compact 
>arrangement but this is the best I've managed so far. At least with
>kmail:4 
>I could tweak Qt settings to condense it; now nothing I do makes any 
>improvement.

I would expect font settings. In kmail:4 there is a display part in the 
settings menu. I never did anything directly with Qt to chamge anything.
I have too many folders anyway for it to fit (unless I would have a BIG 4K 
screen...)

>Then the message view. Message.png shows what your message looks like
>in 
>this version of KMail (the message I'm replying to now). This is with
>all 
>the bells and whistles I can find switched off.

That actually looks nice to me. Do the minus (-) blocks actually allow the 
quotes to be folded up?

>Next, after I'd emerged kde-apps/kmai-16.12.0, it was incomplete. I had
>to 
>install several other packages to complete it, including the import
>wizard. 
>Rather than messing about, I just emerged kdepim-meta and had done with
>it.
>
>Even after doing that, I get "No backend available for spell checking,"
>even 
>though I've set everything up that I can see. Myspell and hunspell are
>both 
>installed.

Hmm... that's not nice. Then again, I only use spell check for documents. Not 
emails. Never really trusted those ever since I saw dictionaries get 
automatically ruined by 'do you want to add this word to the dictionary'.

>In the message list I have next-to-no control over the font. I can set
>the 
>basic one, but not those for unread, important or action items. They're
>now 
>displayed in a reduced-density form of the basic font (while pretending
>
>they're going to use the same font as the message itself). The
>designers 
>evidently know what I want better than I do (anyone might think this
>was 
>Gnome).

I hope that can be fixed somehow.

>Nothing to do with KMail, but the display of gkrellm has changed 
>dramatically. I use its Invisible theme, which hasn't actually been 
>invisible since the switch from KDE-3 to 4, but it had a plain,
>unobtrusive 
>grey scheme and showed what I wanted to see, clearly and with no drama.
>Now, 
>the chart backgrounds have changed from charcoal-grey to a dark red,
>and 
>what was grey is now a dreadful salmon-pink. Of course I can't see the
>red 
>traces any longer. Perhaps I'm missing a KDE or Qt component.

Always possible. I tend to just install the meta stuff and be done with it.

>Oh, and when I start a reboot in KDE, akonadi crashes with a
>segmentation 
>fault.

That is a bug. Hope it gets ironed out soon. Maybe still busy indexing your 
emails?

>I dare say version 16.12.0 of KMail-2 will make a decent platform for 
>development, now that it's finally here, but a very great deal of work
>lies 
>ahead. I can see that I'll be doing my fair share of shouting too, at
>it and 
>at the devs.

I'll try to get my desktop converted this week. And will join in the 
bugreporting party.

>It's taken me about 30 hours to get this far. I ditched the old system 
>altogether and built a new one on the kde-plasma profile. I didn't ask
>for 
>anything in a slot 4, just slot 5 versions. I also ditched my old user
>and 
>set up a new one from scratch. Headache? What headache?

Great

>I think I'll have to go down the pub to drown my sorrows.

Just don't climb behind the wheel of a car afterwards

--
Joost


-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-21 Thread Alan McKinnon 
On 21/12/2016 11:05, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Tuesday 20 Dec 2016 19:24:51 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> Looks like a reasonably straightforward set of blockers. Your core
>> problem seems to be that portage wants to install kmail:4 but if I read
>> you correctly earlier in the thread, you want to install kmail-16.12.0.
>>
>> Correct?
> 
> Yes, and I'd also like just to update the system against the portage tree.
> 
>> So what wants to install kmail:4 if that's not what you are after?
> 
> If I clear everything out of the way beforehand, it's happy to install lots 
> of 16.12.0 packages, including KMail, but then it wants to reinstall the 
> superseded packages as well, which is where the mess appears.
> 
>> please re-run the emerge command with option -t that produced that wilco
>> file.
> 
> I will if I can remember what I did: the command history was lost when I 
> recovered from backup.
> 
>> p.s. I have a strong hunch that the time has now come where kmail:4
>> simply cannot co-exist with KDE-5 anymore...
> 
> I thought we'd reached the point where kmail:4 could just be quietly 
> forgotten. And not before time.
> 
>> I see a few more things you can look at, but one thing at a time
> 


After a day at work away from gentoo-user, here's what I'd do:

The main problem seems to be something pulling in kmail:4, so

emerge -C kmail:4
depclean to get rid of its deps
add kmail:4 to your package.mask

and run a full battery of updates, like I use:

emerge -avuND world
emerge @preserved-world
depclean
revdep-rebuild


At some point with that mask you might hit a snag, but I reckon the
error message will have enough info to tell you what's the real source
of the problem


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-21 Thread Peter Humphrey 
On Tuesday 20 Dec 2016 19:24:51 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Looks like a reasonably straightforward set of blockers. Your core
> problem seems to be that portage wants to install kmail:4 but if I read
> you correctly earlier in the thread, you want to install kmail-16.12.0.
> 
> Correct?

Yes, and I'd also like just to update the system against the portage tree.

> So what wants to install kmail:4 if that's not what you are after?

If I clear everything out of the way beforehand, it's happy to install lots 
of 16.12.0 packages, including KMail, but then it wants to reinstall the 
superseded packages as well, which is where the mess appears.

> please re-run the emerge command with option -t that produced that wilco
> file.

I will if I can remember what I did: the command history was lost when I 
recovered from backup.

> p.s. I have a strong hunch that the time has now come where kmail:4
> simply cannot co-exist with KDE-5 anymore...

I thought we'd reached the point where kmail:4 could just be quietly 
forgotten. And not before time.

> I see a few more things you can look at, but one thing at a time

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-20 Thread Alan McKinnon 
On 20/12/2016 19:09, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Tuesday 20 Dec 2016 11:17:54 J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 09:59:44 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
>>> /mnt/main is where my rescue system mounts the main system for backup.
>>> Do I need to add --xattrs to the tar command?
>>
>> I do, when it comes to creating a stage4 tarfile. Not sure if this is
>> necessary.
>>
>> Maybe that is used somewhere, or is it possible you miss something in the
>> main system mount?
> 
> I'm sure the problem isn't in my backup script. It's always worked perfectly 
> before. All the same, I have now added --xattrs to every tar command in it.
> 
> D'you want to know what else I've been doing all day? Go on, do you?
> 
> I'll tell you anyway.
> 
> To stand any chance of upgrading KDE apps to 16.12.0, I first evicted every 
> package returned by eix -Cc dev-qt and eix -Cc kde-plasma, plus a few more 
> individual packages that were also getting in the way. (The eix man page is 
> helpful in showing how to extract just the cat/pkg from a list of package 
> names. Full marks for ingenuity!)
> 
> Then I ran a -uaDvU world to install 300 "new" packages. Hours later, I had 
> a load more @preserved-rebuild packages to install. I've attached the 
> output, which shows that it wants to go back to the superseded versions. [0] 
> shows what it thinks it can install, while [1] lists all the things that 
> stop it doing anything
> 
> Still absolutely no go. Oddly enough, BGO has only a few 16.12.0 package 
> bugs and they're all about single packages - nothing to indicate the system-
> wide problems I'm having, so it looks as though I have a combination of 
> packages that cause problems themselves.
> 
> I've now reverted to the good backup I made this morning. I shall have to 
> consider whether to start building a new system from scratch, a bit at a 
> time, until I find the culprit. It'd keep me occupied over Christmas, 
> anyway.
> 
> [0]   wilco
> [1]   blocks.etc
> 


Looks like a reasonably straightforward set of blockers. Your core
problem seems to be that portage wants to install kmail:4 but if I read
you correctly earlier in the thread, you want to install kmail-16.12.0.

Correct?

So what wants to install kmail:4 if that's not what you are after?

please re-run the emerge command with option -t that produced that wilco
file.

p.s. I have a strong hunch that the time has now come where kmail:4
simply cannot co-exist with KDE-5 anymore...

I see a few more things you can look at, but one thing at a time

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-20 Thread Peter Humphrey 
On Tuesday 20 Dec 2016 11:17:54 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 09:59:44 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > /mnt/main is where my rescue system mounts the main system for backup.
> > Do I need to add --xattrs to the tar command?
> 
> I do, when it comes to creating a stage4 tarfile. Not sure if this is
> necessary.
> 
> Maybe that is used somewhere, or is it possible you miss something in the
> main system mount?

I'm sure the problem isn't in my backup script. It's always worked perfectly 
before. All the same, I have now added --xattrs to every tar command in it.

D'you want to know what else I've been doing all day? Go on, do you?

I'll tell you anyway.

To stand any chance of upgrading KDE apps to 16.12.0, I first evicted every 
package returned by eix -Cc dev-qt and eix -Cc kde-plasma, plus a few more 
individual packages that were also getting in the way. (The eix man page is 
helpful in showing how to extract just the cat/pkg from a list of package 
names. Full marks for ingenuity!)

Then I ran a -uaDvU world to install 300 "new" packages. Hours later, I had 
a load more @preserved-rebuild packages to install. I've attached the 
output, which shows that it wants to go back to the superseded versions. [0] 
shows what it thinks it can install, while [1] lists all the things that 
stop it doing anything

Still absolutely no go. Oddly enough, BGO has only a few 16.12.0 package 
bugs and they're all about single packages - nothing to indicate the system-
wide problems I'm having, so it looks as though I have a combination of 
packages that cause problems themselves.

I've now reverted to the good backup I made this morning. I shall have to 
consider whether to start building a new system from scratch, a bit at a 
time, until I find the culprit. It'd keep me occupied over Christmas, 
anyway.

[0] wilco
[1] blocks.etc

-- 
Regards
Peter
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies  . done!
[ebuild UD ] dev-libs/xapian-1.2.24:0/1.2.22::gentoo [1.4.1:0/30::gentoo] 
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kde-apps/akonadi-16.12.0)
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Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-20 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 09:59:44 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Monday 19 Dec 2016 14:14:56 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Monday, December 19, 2016 09:45:21 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > J. Roeleveld  wrote :
> > > > On Sunday, December 18, 2016 03:11:58 PM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > > > Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk>
> > > > 
> > > > wrote :
> > > > > > This morning I ran my usual daily update and was presented with a
> > > > > > long
> > > > > > list of kde-app packages, including KMail-2. The only problem was
> > > > > > four
> > > > > > blocks that portage couldn't sort out on its own, so I evicted the
> > > > > > existing versions with emerge -C and continued.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Then kleopatra failed to build, as in bug 602924. The fix there
> > > > > > worked
> > > > 
> > > > (I
> > > > 
> > > > > > should call it an evasion really) and kleopatra built ok.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I should have done some more checking before writing. The fix was to
> > > > 
> > > > emerge
> > > > 
> > > > > -C kde-apps/gpgmepp. I don't know whether you can do that before
> > > > > starting
> > > > > the upgrade, but it's worth a try. It might save a lot of work.
> > > > > 
> > > > > At any rate, there's no sign of gpgmepp being pulled back in with
> > > > > the
> > > > > new
> > > > > 16.12.0 versions of kde-apps packages, now that the old versions
> > > > > have
> > > > 
> > > > gone.
> > > > 
> > > > More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
> > > 
> > > It isn't.
> > > 
> > > I finished the emerge -e world, then @preserved-rebuild presented me
> > > with a whole lot of packages, resulting in the same appalling mess as
> > > before: incompatible versions being required of numerous packages. I've
> > > never had @preserved-rebuild follow an -e world before.
> > 
> > Me neither, although I do wonder if it maybe caches something somewhere.
> > I did just now have a preserved-rebuild after a depclean action.
> > (This was after a clean update and no preserved-rebuild necessary prior to
> > the depclean)
> > 
> > > I've reverted to a week-old system backup, but now when I invoke KMail I
> > > get a dialogue box saying "This will start the program kmail
> > > -qwindowtitle %c %u. If you do not trust this program, click Cancel".
> > > What? Of course I trust it, so I click Continue, and I get "Unable to
> > > make the service KMail executable, aborting execution"
> > > 
> > > What could possible go wrong with a simple offline tarring of files to
> > > USB disk and back again? I know, I know...
> > 
> > Did you include all the permissions in the tar during compression and
> > extraction?
> 
> The command in my backup script is:
> 
>   tar cpf /mnt/sda/peak/main/current/main.tar -C /mnt/main .
> 
> /mnt/main is where my rescue system mounts the main system for backup. Do I
> need to add --xattrs to the tar command?

I do, when it comes to creating a stage4 tarfile. Not sure if this is 
necessary.

Maybe that is used somewhere, or is it possible you miss something in the main 
system mount?

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-20 Thread Peter Humphrey 
On Monday 19 Dec 2016 14:14:56 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Monday, December 19, 2016 09:45:21 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > J. Roeleveld  wrote :
> > > On Sunday, December 18, 2016 03:11:58 PM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > > Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk>
> > > 
> > > wrote :
> > > > > This morning I ran my usual daily update and was presented with a
> > > > > long
> > > > > list of kde-app packages, including KMail-2. The only problem was
> > > > > four
> > > > > blocks that portage couldn't sort out on its own, so I evicted the
> > > > > existing versions with emerge -C and continued.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Then kleopatra failed to build, as in bug 602924. The fix there
> > > > > worked
> > > 
> > > (I
> > > 
> > > > > should call it an evasion really) and kleopatra built ok.
> > > > 
> > > > I should have done some more checking before writing. The fix was to
> > > 
> > > emerge
> > > 
> > > > -C kde-apps/gpgmepp. I don't know whether you can do that before
> > > > starting
> > > > the upgrade, but it's worth a try. It might save a lot of work.
> > > > 
> > > > At any rate, there's no sign of gpgmepp being pulled back in with
> > > > the
> > > > new
> > > > 16.12.0 versions of kde-apps packages, now that the old versions
> > > > have
> > > 
> > > gone.
> > > 
> > > More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
> > 
> > It isn't.
> > 
> > I finished the emerge -e world, then @preserved-rebuild presented me
> > with a whole lot of packages, resulting in the same appalling mess as
> > before: incompatible versions being required of numerous packages. I've
> > never had @preserved-rebuild follow an -e world before.
> 
> Me neither, although I do wonder if it maybe caches something somewhere.
> I did just now have a preserved-rebuild after a depclean action.
> (This was after a clean update and no preserved-rebuild necessary prior to
> the depclean)
> 
> > I've reverted to a week-old system backup, but now when I invoke KMail I
> > get a dialogue box saying "This will start the program kmail
> > -qwindowtitle %c %u. If you do not trust this program, click Cancel".
> > What? Of course I trust it, so I click Continue, and I get "Unable to
> > make the service KMail executable, aborting execution"
> > 
> > What could possible go wrong with a simple offline tarring of files to
> > USB disk and back again? I know, I know...
> 
> Did you include all the permissions in the tar during compression and
> extraction?

The command in my backup script is:

tar cpf /mnt/sda/peak/main/current/main.tar -C /mnt/main .

/mnt/main is where my rescue system mounts the main system for backup. Do I 
need to add --xattrs to the tar command?


-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-20 Thread Peter Humphrey 
On Monday 19 Dec 2016 12:23:59 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 19/12/2016 11:45, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > Has no-one else tried this upgrade?
> 
> Not KMail, it stopped using that since years ago.
> 
> But I do notice that a bucket load of new KDE-5 packages are hitting the
> tree, and despite having SLOTS 4 and 5, some of those packages are
> incompatible, such as audiocd-kio. I'm stuck on SLOT 4 for the time
> being as amarok is still codes for KDE-4 libs (unless there's a 5
> version in some overlay).
> 
> This is all ~arch, so we are the ones who get to file the bug reports.
> I advise just work through the blockers till the latest batch of
> versions settle down and are all done.
> 
> As for your executable problem, what are the owners/perms of the
> relevant file?

I can't tell you now because I set about another emerge -e world. The backup 
having let me down once, I didn't trust it to be correct everywhere else.

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-19 Thread Michael Mol 
On Sunday, December 18, 2016 2:59:36 PM EST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> This morning I ran my usual daily update and was presented with a long list
> of kde-app packages, including KMail-2. The only problem was four blocks
> that portage couldn't sort out on its own, so I evicted the existing
> versions with emerge -C and continued.
> 
> Then kleopatra failed to build, as in bug 602924. The fix there worked (I
> should call it an evasion really) and kleopatra built ok. Then, on
> continuing with emerge -uaDvU, another whole load of blocks arose, mostly
> from portage trying to pull back in the versions of packages that had just
> been superseded.
> 
> There seemed to be no way out of that, so I took my sledge-hammer and
> started an emerge -e world. No blocks were reported, so I think I might be
> getting away with it. I'm about half-way through so far, and I'm writing
> this via webmail.
> 
> So, tread warily, anyone who is offered 16.12.0 versions of 148 kde-apps
> packages.

Try running emerge with, e.g. --backtrack=1000.

So, I've been running with a massive set of package.unmask for all of KDE-
Frameworks, Qt, Plasma and KDE-Applications. I also have a cron job handling 
updates for me every evening. By an large it's worked fine...until a couple 
weeks ago.

At that point, I wound up with a ton of slot conflicts that didn't make any 
sense to me, but I figured they were tree issues that would work themselves 
out. They didn't, and were getting in the way of a security update I needed, 
so finally I dove in and devoted some time to it this morning. I tried 
unmerging all of dev-qt/*, but that didn't solve the problem completely; 
portage was still unable to work its way around a simple upgrade from perl 
5.22 to 5.23. Once I threw in --backtrack=1000, it started swimming right 
along.

It *seems* like the default backtrack value, 3, is simply too low for someone 
like me who runs with --deep and --with-bdeps=y in EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS; once I 
bumped the backtrack value, portage was able to work its way through the 
dependency tree just fine.

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-19 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On Monday, December 19, 2016 09:45:21 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> J. Roeleveld  wrote :
> > On Sunday, December 18, 2016 03:11:58 PM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk>
> > 
> > wrote :
> > > > This morning I ran my usual daily update and was presented with a long
> > > > list of kde-app packages, including KMail-2. The only problem was four
> > > > blocks that portage couldn't sort out on its own, so I evicted the
> > > > existing versions with emerge -C and continued.
> > > > 
> > > > Then kleopatra failed to build, as in bug 602924. The fix there worked
> > 
> > (I
> > 
> > > > should call it an evasion really) and kleopatra built ok.
> > > 
> > > I should have done some more checking before writing. The fix was to
> > 
> > emerge
> > 
> > > -C kde-apps/gpgmepp. I don't know whether you can do that before
> > > starting
> > > the upgrade, but it's worth a try. It might save a lot of work.
> > > 
> > > At any rate, there's no sign of gpgmepp being pulled back in with the
> > > new
> > > 16.12.0 versions of kde-apps packages, now that the old versions have
> > 
> > gone.
> > 
> > More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
> 
> It isn't.
> 
> I finished the emerge -e world, then @preserved-rebuild presented me with a
> whole lot of packages, resulting in the same appalling mess as before:
> incompatible versions being required of numerous packages. I've never had
> @preserved-rebuild follow an -e world before.

Me neither, although I do wonder if it maybe caches something somewhere.
I did just now have a preserved-rebuild after a depclean action.
(This was after a clean update and no preserved-rebuild necessary prior to the 
depclean)

> I've reverted to a week-old system backup, but now when I invoke KMail I get
> a dialogue box saying "This will start the program kmail -qwindowtitle %c
> %u. If you do not trust this program, click Cancel". What? Of course I
> trust it, so I click Continue, and I get "Unable to make the service KMail
> executable, aborting execution"
> 
> What could possible go wrong with a simple offline tarring of files to USB
> disk and back again? I know, I know...

Did you include all the permissions in the tar during compression and 
extraction?

> Has no-one else tried this upgrade?

No, did try today, but as it has a conflict with dependencies for kmymoney 
(which isn't yet for slot 5), I am unwilling to proceed on this laptop.

I will test my desktop later today/this week.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-19 Thread Alan McKinnon 
On 19/12/2016 11:45, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> J. Roeleveld  wrote :
> 
>> On Sunday, December 18, 2016 03:11:58 PM Peter Humphrey wrote:
>>> Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk>
>> wrote :
 This morning I ran my usual daily update and was presented with a long
 list of kde-app packages, including KMail-2. The only problem was four
 blocks that portage couldn't sort out on its own, so I evicted the
 existing versions with emerge -C and continued.

 Then kleopatra failed to build, as in bug 602924. The fix there worked
>> (I
 should call it an evasion really) and kleopatra built ok.
>>>
>>> I should have done some more checking before writing. The fix was to
>> emerge
>>> -C kde-apps/gpgmepp. I don't know whether you can do that before starting
>>> the upgrade, but it's worth a try. It might save a lot of work.
>>>
>>> At any rate, there's no sign of gpgmepp being pulled back in with the new
>>> 16.12.0 versions of kde-apps packages, now that the old versions have
>> gone.
>>
>> More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
> 
> It isn't.
> 
> I finished the emerge -e world, then @preserved-rebuild presented me with a 
> whole lot of packages, resulting in the same appalling mess as before: 
> incompatible versions being required of numerous packages. I've never had 
> @preserved-rebuild follow an -e world before.
> 
> I've reverted to a week-old system backup, but now when I invoke KMail I get 
> a dialogue box saying "This will start the program kmail -qwindowtitle %c %u. 
> If you do not trust this program, click Cancel". What? Of course I trust it, 
> so I click Continue, and I get "Unable to make the service KMail executable, 
> aborting execution"
> 
> What could possible go wrong with a simple offline tarring of files to USB 
> disk and back again? I know, I know...
> 
> Has no-one else tried this upgrade?
> 


Not KMail, it stopped using that since years ago.

But I do notice that a bucket load of new KDE-5 packages are hitting the
tree, and despite having SLOTS 4 and 5, some of those packages are
incompatible, such as audiocd-kio. I'm stuck on SLOT 4 for the time
being as amarok is still codes for KDE-4 libs (unless there's a 5
version in some overlay).

This is all ~arch, so we are the ones who get to file the bug reports.
I advise just work through the blockers till the latest batch of
versions settle down and are all done.

As for your executable problem, what are the owners/perms of the
relevant file?


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-19 Thread Peter Humphrey 
J. Roeleveld  wrote :

> On Sunday, December 18, 2016 03:11:58 PM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk>
> wrote :
> > > This morning I ran my usual daily update and was presented with a long
> > > list of kde-app packages, including KMail-2. The only problem was four
> > > blocks that portage couldn't sort out on its own, so I evicted the
> > > existing versions with emerge -C and continued.
> > > 
> > > Then kleopatra failed to build, as in bug 602924. The fix there worked
> (I
> > > should call it an evasion really) and kleopatra built ok.
> > 
> > I should have done some more checking before writing. The fix was to
> emerge
> > -C kde-apps/gpgmepp. I don't know whether you can do that before starting
> > the upgrade, but it's worth a try. It might save a lot of work.
> > 
> > At any rate, there's no sign of gpgmepp being pulled back in with the new
> > 16.12.0 versions of kde-apps packages, now that the old versions have
> gone.
> 
> More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?

It isn't.

I finished the emerge -e world, then @preserved-rebuild presented me with a 
whole lot of packages, resulting in the same appalling mess as before: 
incompatible versions being required of numerous packages. I've never had 
@preserved-rebuild follow an -e world before.

I've reverted to a week-old system backup, but now when I invoke KMail I get a 
dialogue box saying "This will start the program kmail -qwindowtitle %c %u. If 
you do not trust this program, click Cancel". What? Of course I trust it, so I 
click Continue, and I get "Unable to make the service KMail executable, 
aborting execution"

What could possible go wrong with a simple offline tarring of files to USB disk 
and back again? I know, I know...

Has no-one else tried this upgrade?

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-18 Thread J. Roeleveld 
On Sunday, December 18, 2016 03:11:58 PM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> Peter Humphrey  wrote :
> > This morning I ran my usual daily update and was presented with a long
> > list of kde-app packages, including KMail-2. The only problem was four
> > blocks that portage couldn't sort out on its own, so I evicted the
> > existing versions with emerge -C and continued.
> > 
> > Then kleopatra failed to build, as in bug 602924. The fix there worked (I
> > should call it an evasion really) and kleopatra built ok.
> 
> I should have done some more checking before writing. The fix was to emerge
> -C kde-apps/gpgmepp. I don't know whether you can do that before starting
> the upgrade, but it's worth a try. It might save a lot of work.
> 
> At any rate, there's no sign of gpgmepp being pulled back in with the new
> 16.12.0 versions of kde-apps packages, now that the old versions have gone.

More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

2016-12-18 Thread Peter Humphrey 
Peter Humphrey  wrote :

> This morning I ran my usual daily update and was presented with a long list of
> kde-app packages, including KMail-2. The only problem was four blocks that
> portage couldn't sort out on its own, so I evicted the existing versions with
> emerge -C and continued.
> 
> Then kleopatra failed to build, as in bug 602924. The fix there worked (I
> should call it an evasion really) and kleopatra built ok. 

I should have done some more checking before writing. The fix was to emerge -C 
kde-apps/gpgmepp. I don't know whether you can do that before starting the 
upgrade, but it's worth a try. It might save a lot of work.

At any rate, there's no sign of gpgmepp being pulled back in with the new 
16.12.0 versions of kde-apps packages, now that the old versions have gone.

-- 
Regards,
Peter