Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
On 7 August 2013 02:38, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: I was so hot to prove to myself that I could do the Big Update on both systemd and openrc gentoo machines that I didn't spend much time actually *using* gnome-3.8 until yesterday. Have you ever lived or worked in a building during a big remodeling? With most of your living/working space completely (but temporarily) demolished? For me, that's gnome-3.8 :( I spent all day today reverting my main desktop from ~amd64 to amd64, and I'm happy to be back home in gnome2 :) I'm very grateful to the gentoo devs for keeping gnome2 available, BTW. Some distros don't give anyone that option. I don't hate gnome3, honest and truly. I hate living in gnome3 during the Big Remodel, that's all. Same goes for systemd, but I find systemd more useable than gnome3 at this time. I'm hoping to see both projects start to feel like home to me, but today is not that day. Meanwhile I see other windmills to tilt at :) Kde is not a possible solution for you? I'm just asking, I do not want to start a flamewar about which is the better/worst. :) That's the reason why I have kde and xfce on my machine. I always have a fallback plan. I spend I few weeks for Unity from unity-gentoo overlay and the big gnome-3.8 update messed up everything and I spent almost a week the get back Unity, and I gave up. During this week I was able to work on my machine because I had kde. -- -- Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando) -- http://sayusi.hu -- http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi -- Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry! - Cromwell
Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
Am 09.08.2013 11:13, schrieb András Csányi: Kde is not a possible solution for you? I'm just asking, I do not want to start a flamewar about which is the better/worst. :) That's the reason why I have kde and xfce on my machine. I always have a fallback plan. I spend I few weeks for Unity from unity-gentoo overlay and the big gnome-3.8 update messed up everything and I spent almost a week the get back Unity, and I gave up. During this week I was able to work on my machine because I had kde. I run gnome-3.8 for months(?) now ... happily, on 2 gentoo boxes.
Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
On 09/08/2013 11:15, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: Am 09.08.2013 11:13, schrieb András Csányi: Kde is not a possible solution for you? I'm just asking, I do not want to start a flamewar about which is the better/worst. :) That's the reason why I have kde and xfce on my machine. I always have a fallback plan. I spend I few weeks for Unity from unity-gentoo overlay and the big gnome-3.8 update messed up everything and I spent almost a week the get back Unity, and I gave up. During this week I was able to work on my machine because I had kde. I run gnome-3.8 for months(?) now ... happily, on 2 gentoo boxes. I long ago concluded that users who want to run Gnome3 need to do what Gnome3 devs want them to do. Currently with 3.8 that includes using systemd. There's two ways of looking at this: how things should (or could) be vs how things are. Basically, to get Gnome3 running, you need to be OK with the latter and willing to run with it. Many folks outside fedora-land are not at all happy with the way things are and would like to see things move over to the former - how things should be. That's a lot of work, and with a rather unco-operative upstream the work is now twice as hard (and perhaps not at all viable). That's how I see it anyway - as a rather cut 'n dried binary choice the user must make. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
On Friday 09 Aug 2013 11:33:53 Alan McKinnon wrote: I long ago concluded that users who want to run Gnome3 need to do what Gnome3 devs want them to do. Currently with 3.8 that includes using systemd. Is there any advantage in a KDE user switching to systemd? I've seen the arguments for and against in a Gnome context but I don't remember anything about KDE here. (And I can't search for it easily because this version of Kmail has demolished the search facility. Well, it doesn't work, anyway.) -- Regards, Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
On 09/08/2013 13:19, Peter Humphrey wrote: On Friday 09 Aug 2013 11:33:53 Alan McKinnon wrote: I long ago concluded that users who want to run Gnome3 need to do what Gnome3 devs want them to do. Currently with 3.8 that includes using systemd. Is there any advantage in a KDE user switching to systemd? I've seen the arguments for and against in a Gnome context but I don't remember anything about KDE here. (And I can't search for it easily because this version of Kmail has demolished the search facility. Well, it doesn't work, anyway.) I honestly have no idea :-( The devs are having one of their regular bun fights in gentoo-dev and it's been going on for a while. The whole topic is murky and there's no clear consensus or technical facts coming out of it just yet that I can see. I think we all have to wait and see on kde/systemd at this point -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
On Fri, Aug 09, 2013 at 11:33:53AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: I long ago concluded that users who want to run Gnome3 need to do what Gnome3 devs want them to do. Currently with 3.8 that includes using systemd. This would be a _very_ good post to end this thread upon. Too bad there's not an /ignore gnome all switch for this ML. -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
On 08/09/2013 02:25 PM, Bruce Hill wrote: On Fri, Aug 09, 2013 at 11:33:53AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: I long ago concluded that users who want to run Gnome3 need to do what Gnome3 devs want them to do. Currently with 3.8 that includes using systemd. This would be a _very_ good post to end this thread upon. Too bad there's not an /ignore gnome all switch for this ML. You can use a proper mail client and filter messages.
Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
On Fri, Aug 09, 2013 at 02:48:21PM +0200, hasufell wrote: You can use a proper mail client and filter messages. I use the most proper mail client, but have never read HOW-TO filter messages. using D has worked to prune the list. -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
On 8/9/2013 8:58 AM, Bruce Hill wrote: On Fri, Aug 09, 2013 at 02:48:21PM +0200, hasufell wrote: You can use a proper mail client and filter messages. I use the most proper mail client, but have never read HOW-TO filter messages. using D has worked to prune the list. Do not really wish to belabor POINTLESSLY, the topic here, but perhaps there is a more positive way to head toward ending this discussion (or at least view some implications for the future, a more forward discussion)...? I have been preparing a AMD64 machine to install Gentoo on, had anticipated (as a present/former) Gnome user, stopped because of (video card) incompatibilities with Gnome 3 ( Gentoo, which I tried to install), on my old machine... So it seems most of the discussion on this thread is regarding upgrading problems... My question would be regarding a clean install using Gnome 3? Thing to do (or not), so forth. Thanks for any (hopefully) constructive suggestions/links, etc.. Henry
Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Henry W. Peters hwpet...@jamadots.com wrote: On 8/9/2013 8:58 AM, Bruce Hill wrote: On Fri, Aug 09, 2013 at 02:48:21PM +0200, hasufell wrote: You can use a proper mail client and filter messages. I use the most proper mail client, but have never read HOW-TO filter messages. using D has worked to prune the list. Do not really wish to belabor POINTLESSLY, the topic here, but perhaps there is a more positive way to head toward ending this discussion (or at least view some implications for the future, a more forward discussion)...? I have been preparing a AMD64 machine to install Gentoo on, had anticipated (as a present/former) Gnome user, stopped because of (video card) incompatibilities with Gnome 3 ( Gentoo, which I tried to install), on my old machine... So it seems most of the discussion on this thread is regarding upgrading problems... My question would be regarding a clean install using Gnome 3? Thing to do (or not), so forth. Thanks for any (hopefully) constructive suggestions/links, etc.. There has been talks about mentioning systemd as an option in the handbook, but nothing is written yet. When GNOME 3.8 goes stable, the GNOME team will have an upgrade howto document (as they have always done), but said document isn't available yet. I thought the wiki had more or less the basics right, but Allan made me notice that it doesn't even mention consolekit, so that's also incomplete. Since I deprecated the gentoo-systemd-only overlay, I've been thinking about writing guides for installing Gentoo with systemd as init system, and migrating to systemd; but I haven't gotten the time. I would recommend to install the base system (without GNOME), migrating to systemd (which should be relatively easy without GNOME), and then installing GNOME. If you do it when GNOME 3.8 is stable, it should be even easier. If you do it, please let us know how it went. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
On 07/08/13 05:25, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: On Tue, Aug 06 2013, Samuli Suominen wrote: that's only because gnome 3.8 hasn't been stabilized yet. as in, there are no plans in keeping gnome 2.x available after gnome 3.8 stabilization. Am I correct in believing that gnome-3.8 (whether in testing as now, or stable later) requires init=systemd? I am converting an old ~amd64 machine to systemd for practice so that I can convert my main laptop (also ~amd64) to systemd. The purpose of the conversions is to run gnome-3.8 and higher. I have other machines running stable. Will I need to convert them to systemd when gnome-3.8 becomes stable and if so will the systemd wiki be expanded. Yes, GNOME 3.8+ does require sys-apps/systemd installed and running as init= for full functionality[1] However if you don't care about full functionality[1] you can still run GNOME 3.8+ with OpenRC while sys-apps/systemd is installed (because sys-apps/systemd has it's own copy of udev that still works with OpenRC) [1] HW support, like (auto)mounting and suspend/hibernate
Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
On Wed, Aug 07 2013, Samuli Suominen wrote: On 07/08/13 05:25, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: On Tue, Aug 06 2013, Samuli Suominen wrote: that's only because gnome 3.8 hasn't been stabilized yet. as in, there are no plans in keeping gnome 2.x available after gnome 3.8 stabilization. Am I correct in believing that gnome-3.8 (whether in testing as now, or stable later) requires init=systemd? I am converting an old ~amd64 machine to systemd for practice so that I can convert my main laptop (also ~amd64) to systemd. The purpose of the conversions is to run gnome-3.8 and higher. I have other machines running stable. Will I need to convert them to systemd when gnome-3.8 becomes stable and if so will the systemd wiki be expanded. Yes, GNOME 3.8+ does require sys-apps/systemd installed and running as init= for full functionality[1] However if you don't care about full functionality[1] you can still run GNOME 3.8+ with OpenRC while sys-apps/systemd is installed (because sys-apps/systemd has it's own copy of udev that still works with OpenRC) [1] HW support, like (auto)mounting and suspend/hibernate Thanks for the explanation. Since suspend/resume is important for me, I will keep up the effort to go to systemd. allan
Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
On 07/08/13 03:38, walt wrote: I was so hot to prove to myself that I could do the Big Update on both systemd and openrc gentoo machines that I didn't spend much time actually *using* gnome-3.8 until yesterday. Have you ever lived or worked in a building during a big remodeling? With most of your living/working space completely (but temporarily) demolished? For me, that's gnome-3.8 :( I spent all day today reverting my main desktop from ~amd64 to amd64, and I'm happy to be back home in gnome2 :) I'm very grateful to the gentoo devs for keeping gnome2 available, BTW. Some distros don't give anyone that option. that's only because gnome 3.8 hasn't been stabilized yet. as in, there are no plans in keeping gnome 2.x available after gnome 3.8 stabilization. propably not what you wanted to know, but that's just how it is... try Xfce ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] Au revoir, gnome-3.8
On Tue, Aug 06 2013, Samuli Suominen wrote: that's only because gnome 3.8 hasn't been stabilized yet. as in, there are no plans in keeping gnome 2.x available after gnome 3.8 stabilization. Am I correct in believing that gnome-3.8 (whether in testing as now, or stable later) requires init=systemd? I am converting an old ~amd64 machine to systemd for practice so that I can convert my main laptop (also ~amd64) to systemd. The purpose of the conversions is to run gnome-3.8 and higher. I have other machines running stable. Will I need to convert them to systemd when gnome-3.8 becomes stable and if so will the systemd wiki be expanded. thanks, allan
