Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 23 Aug 2016 11:32:40 I wrote:
> On Tuesday 23 Aug 2016 11:10:40 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > As long as the source file is still in $DISTDIR, you don't need to do
> > anything.
> > You could put the file somewhere; personal web space, github
> > etc, and change the SRC_URI to point to it, but that's not really
> > necessary.
> 
> Can a SRC_URI be a file:// reference? The dev manual doesn't say.

I've answered my own question: no, a SRC_URI cannot be a file:// reference. 
I tried ebuild .ebuild manifest, and portage went off to the UK 
mirrors to look for the distfile, which it tried to put into $DISTDIR.

> And can I have a second $DISTDIR under /usr/local/portage?

It may be possible to do this for specified packages by redefining DISTDIR 
in a package.env file, but I haven't pursued this idea. I may come back to 
it later, but for the time being I'm looking into Mike G's systemd-boot 
ebuild.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Peter Humphrey]

On Wednesday 24 Aug 2016 11:57:04 Mike Gilbert wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 5:15 AM, Peter Humphrey  
wrote:
> > On Monday 22 Aug 2016 21:08:56 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >> On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:59:41 +, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >> > I really don't understand the urgency in treecleaning gummiboot.
> >> > Like grub1, it will still work in 10 years time...
> >> 
> >> I agree, just copy it to a local overlay.
> > 
> > How would I manage the distfile, which at present is in dev.gentoo.org?
> > I
> > assume it will disappear from there when gummiboot is deleted. Should I
> > create a files directory for it under
> > /usr/local/portage/sys-boot/gummiboot? What would I do then with
> > SRC_URI in the ebuild?
> 
> The file is in my personal devspace, and I will not be removing it for
> the foreseeable future.
> 
> Also, if you are looking for a gummiboot replacement, please have a
> look at me comments on the related bug report.
> 
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=556734#c16

Interesting; thanks Mike. I'll have a look at that tomorrow.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Mike Gilbert]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 5:15 AM, Peter Humphrey  wrote:
> On Monday 22 Aug 2016 21:08:56 Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:59:41 +, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> > I really don't understand the urgency in treecleaning gummiboot.
>> > Like grub1, it will still work in 10 years time...
>>
>> I agree, just copy it to a local overlay.
>
> How would I manage the distfile, which at present is in dev.gentoo.org? I
> assume it will disappear from there when gummiboot is deleted. Should I
> create a files directory for it under /usr/local/portage/sys-boot/gummiboot?
> What would I do then with SRC_URI in the ebuild?

The file is in my personal devspace, and I will not be removing it for
the foreseeable future.

Also, if you are looking for a gummiboot replacement, please have a
look at me comments on the related bug report.

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=556734#c16

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 23 Aug 2016 21:00:47 Mick wrote:

> I have built a UEFI system with no initramfs (I don't need it), or
> systemd (I don't want it), or any assisting boot manager.  I have been
> happily using the EFI kernel stub and on the rare occasion I need to boot
> an alternative kernel I press F2 (or whatever it is) to get into BIOS and
> shift the boot order of the kernels I have stashed in /boot/EFI/BOOT/. 
> If the need has arisen to use a different kernel before I (re)boot, then
> I can also change the kernels' boot order using  efibootmgr from a
> terminal.  This has been going on for the last two years or so without
> any complaints from the users, or myself.  The only drawback is I can't
> boot sysrescuecd ISO straight off the boot menu without grub2 and
> friends.  Again, fingers X,  this is quite a rare occasion for this
> particular box.

It hadn't occurred to me that I could have more than one kernel in 
/boot/EFI/Boot. I'll certainly look into that idea - thanks Mick!

> BTW, have you had a look at rEFInd?  In the absence of Gummiboot you may
> fulfils your needs.

I hadn't heard of it, but it looks interesting now you point it out.

Well, that's my research topic for today sorted out.  :)

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Mick]

On Tuesday 23 Aug 2016 15:06:03 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Tuesday 23 Aug 2016 08:21:36 Michael Mol wrote:
> > If you're not frequently jumping to a non-default boot environment, it's
> > fine.
> 
> That's my problem: I do often want to start a minimal system. As I said
> before not far from here, any time a substantial update is needed,
> especially if it involves more than odd bits of KDE, I first emerge -B, then
> boot into the minimal run level and emerge -K. That way I don't find myself
> having to flip the BRS because of a half-dead desktop at the end of the
> update. Or else I'll do the whole emerge in the minimal run level.

This is rather rare event for me running stable arch, but in any case, a fall 
back desktop would address this problem, yes?


> Progress will keep on insisting on being made - hah! Maybe it's time I
> reviewed my whole modus operandi and ditched most of the flexibility I've
> developed over the years.

I have built an UEFI system with no initramfs (I don't need it), or systemd (I 
don't want it), or any assisting boot manager.  I have been happily using the 
EFI kernel stub and on the rare occasion I need to boot an alternative kernel 
I press F2 (or whatever it is) to get into BIOS and shift the boot order of 
the kernels I have stashed in /boot/EFI/BOOT/.  If the need has arisen to use 
a different kernel before I (re)boot, then I can also change the kernels' boot 
order using  efibootmgr from a terminal.  This has been going on for the last 
two years or so without any complaints from the users, or myself.  The only 
drawback is I can't boot sysrescuecd ISO straight off the boot menu without 
grub2 and friends.  Again, fingers X,  this is quite a rare occasion for this 
particular box.

BTW, have you had a look at rEFInd?  In the absence of Gummiboot you may 
fulfils your needs.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 23 Aug 2016 08:21:36 Michael Mol wrote:

> If you're not frequently jumping to a non-default boot environment, it's
> fine.

That's my problem: I do often want to start a minimal system. As I said 
before not far from here, any time a substantial update is needed, 
especially if it involves more than odd bits of KDE, I first emerge -B, then 
boot into the minimal run level and emerge -K. That way I don't find myself 
having to flip the BRS because of a half-dead desktop at the end of the 
update. Or else I'll do the whole emerge in the minimal run level.

Progress will keep on insisting on being made - hah! Maybe it's time I 
reviewed my whole modus operandi and ditched most of the flexibility I've 
developed over the years.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Michael Mol]

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 10:41:50 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Tuesday 23 Aug 2016 05:18:02 Tom H wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Peter Humphrey 
>
> wrote:
> > > Following today's marking of gummiboot as to be deleted in a month, I
> > > had a look at efibootmgr in the wiki pages. It looks as though I'll be
> > > able to use it instead, but one thing puzzles me: is it possible to
> > > create a set of configs for several kernels, the way gummiboot does in
> > > /boot/loader/entries/*.conf? Actually, I'd also like to specify each of
> > > two kernel versions with three different command lines to start
> > > different run levels.
> >
> > You can create multiple entries with efibootmgr but you'll have to
> > boot to your firmware to choose a non-default option.
>
> Yes, that's how it was looking to me too. Not an ideal arrangement.

If you're not frequently jumping to a non-default boot environment, it's fine.

Every time I update my kernel, I either add a new boot entry (or replace the 
oldest)
pointing to my kernel, set the boot order to boot the newest entry by default 
(also
configured via efibootmgr), and...I'm set. If the kernel fails to boot the 
system, I can still
access my previous working kernel for rescue purposes. My current setup:

*#* efibootmgr -v

The hardest part, honestly, is remembering the commands to do it, since I only 
do it once
every few months...

--
:wq


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Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 23 Aug 2016 11:10:40 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> As long as the source file is still in $DISTDIR, you don't need to do
> anything.
> You could put the file somewhere; personal web space, github
> etc, and change the SRC_URI to point to it, but that's not really
> necessary.

Can a SRC_URI be a file:// reference? The dev manual doesn't say. And can I 
have a second $DISTDIR under /usr/local/portage?

> > > If a serious bug does arise, you then have the choice of trying to
> > > persuade someone to backport the fix from systemd or switch
> > > bootloaders.
> > 
> > In fact I think it might be easier to follow Rich's intriguing
> > suggestion and install systemd.
> 
> That's worth trying out, *before* gummiboot it treecleaned!

Indeed.  :)  For the time being I've marked the source file immutable, just 
to anticipate finger trouble.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 10:15:16 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > > I really don't understand the urgency in treecleaning gummiboot.
> > > Like grub1, it will still work in 10 years time...  
> > 
> > I agree, just copy it to a local overlay.  
> 
> How would I manage the distfile, which at present is in dev.gentoo.org?
> I assume it will disappear from there when gummiboot is deleted. Should
> I create a files directory for it
> under /usr/local/portage/sys-boot/gummiboot? What would I do then with
> SRC_URI in the ebuild?

As long as the source file is still in $DISTDIR, you don't need to do
anything. You could put the file somewhere; personal web space, github
etc, and change the SRC_URI to point to it, but that's not really
necessary.

> > If a serious bug does arise, you then have the choice of trying to
> > persuade someone to backport the fix from systemd or switch
> > bootloaders.  
> 
> In fact I think it might be easier to follow Rich's intriguing
> suggestion and install systemd.

That's worth trying out, *before* gummiboot it treecleaned!

> > I've no idea how tightly bootctl (as gummibot is now called after its
> > assimilation in the the systemd collective) is bound to systemd. It
> > may well be feasible to create an ebuild that builds bootctl from the
> > systemd sources without the rest of systemd, as is already done with
> > udev.  
 
> That sounds a bit beyond my abilities at present; I'll bear it in mind 
> though.

Mine too, I was just throwing it out there as an idea for someone to
consider. I use systemd anyway, so the assimilation is ot a problem for
me.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I'm firm. You're obstinate. He's a pigheaded fool.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 2:12 AM, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
> On Monday, August 22, 2016 02:59:55 PM Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 2:34 PM, Håkon Alstadheim
>>
>>  wrote:
>> > Booting straight into linux on an EFI system without a boot-loader means
>> > you have no way to provide command-line or initramfs as far as I can
>> > tell, all modules must be compiled in, and default command-line needs to
>> > be set in the kernel config.
>>
>> You can have an initramfs, but it also has to be compiled in.  Just as
>> with the command line there is an option to include an initramfs in
>> the kernel.  I think it actually always builds with some kind of stub
>> of one.  This means that you can use modules.  It is a pita though,
>> since you'd need to configure your kernel without the initramfs, build
>> everything, install your modules, build your initramfs, then change
>> your config to include the initramfs, and THEN rebuild the kernel
>> itself (which would be fast since most of it is already built), and
>> run the final make install I guess.
>
> Why not simply follow best practices when configuring your own kernel and put
> all boot-necessary modules internal?
>

I'd say that best practice is to use a boot manager, modular kernel,
and initramfs.

Then if something changes you don't need to rebuild everything, and
you can skip the step of trying to figure out everything you need to
boot your system (and likely including too much in the process).

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Tom H]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Rich Freeman  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 2:34 PM, Håkon Alstadheim
>  wrote:


>> Booting straight into linux on an EFI system without a boot-loader means
>> you have no way to provide command-line or initramfs as far as I can
>> tell, all modules must be compiled in, and default command-line needs to
>> be set in the kernel config.
>
> You can have an initramfs, but it also has to be compiled in.

You can feed a path to an initramfs with efibootmgr's "-u" or "-@".


> It generally makes sense to use a bootloader with EFI as a result.

+1

When the switch to systemd-boot happened, I grabbed the files needed
to compile it from the systemd tarball and compiled "gummiboot-ng."
But this started failing at some point so I compiled systemd on one
system and grabbed "/usr/lib/systemd/boot/efi/systemd-bootx64.efi".

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 23 Aug 2016 05:18:02 Tom H wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Peter Humphrey  
wrote:
> > Following today's marking of gummiboot as to be deleted in a month, I
> > had a look at efibootmgr in the wiki pages. It looks as though I'll be
> > able to use it instead, but one thing puzzles me: is it possible to
> > create a set of configs for several kernels, the way gummiboot does in
> > /boot/loader/entries/*.conf? Actually, I'd also like to specify each of
> > two kernel versions with three different command lines to start
> > different run levels.
> 
> You can create multiple entries with efibootmgr but you'll have to
> boot to your firmware to choose a non-default option.

Yes, that's how it was looking to me too. Not an ideal arrangement.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Tom H]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Peter Humphrey  wrote:
>
> Following today's marking of gummiboot as to be deleted in a month, I had a
> look at efibootmgr in the wiki pages. It looks as though I'll be able to use
> it instead, but one thing puzzles me: is it possible to create a set of
> configs for several kernels, the way gummiboot does in
> /boot/loader/entries/*.conf? Actually, I'd also like to specify each of two
> kernel versions with three different command lines to start different run
> levels.

You can create multiple entries with efibootmgr but you'll have to
boot to your firmware to choose a non-default option.

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Peter Humphrey]

On Monday 22 Aug 2016 21:08:56 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:59:41 +, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > I really don't understand the urgency in treecleaning gummiboot.
> > Like grub1, it will still work in 10 years time...
> 
> I agree, just copy it to a local overlay.

How would I manage the distfile, which at present is in dev.gentoo.org? I 
assume it will disappear from there when gummiboot is deleted. Should I 
create a files directory for it under /usr/local/portage/sys-boot/gummiboot? 
What would I do then with SRC_URI in the ebuild?

> If a serious bug does arise, you then have the choice of trying to
> persuade someone to backport the fix from systemd or switch bootloaders.

In fact I think it might be easier to follow Rich's intriguing suggestion 
and install systemd. I've never managed to get grub-2 working with my 
arrangement of kernels and run levels. It seems natural enough to me to want 
to be able to choose between a full desktop and a minimal system at boot 
time, but it seems awfully hard to do with grub-2. This is what I have in 
the latter run level:

# ls /etc/runlevels/nonet
gpm  local  smartd  syslog-ng

> I've no idea how tightly bootctl (as gummibot is now called after its
> assimilation in the the systemd collective) is bound to systemd. It may
> well be feasible to create an ebuild that builds bootctl from the systemd
> sources without the rest of systemd, as is already done with udev.

That sounds a bit beyond my abilities at present; I'll bear it in mind 
though.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[J. Roeleveld]

On Monday, August 22, 2016 02:59:55 PM Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 2:34 PM, Håkon Alstadheim
> 
>  wrote:
> > Booting straight into linux on an EFI system without a boot-loader means
> > you have no way to provide command-line or initramfs as far as I can
> > tell, all modules must be compiled in, and default command-line needs to
> > be set in the kernel config.
> 
> You can have an initramfs, but it also has to be compiled in.  Just as
> with the command line there is an option to include an initramfs in
> the kernel.  I think it actually always builds with some kind of stub
> of one.  This means that you can use modules.  It is a pita though,
> since you'd need to configure your kernel without the initramfs, build
> everything, install your modules, build your initramfs, then change
> your config to include the initramfs, and THEN rebuild the kernel
> itself (which would be fast since most of it is already built), and
> run the final make install I guess.

Why not simply follow best practices when configuring your own kernel and put 
all boot-necessary modules internal?

> Heaven help you if you need single-user mode or whatever.  Though, I
> guess you could build a bunch of kernels with various command lines.
> They'd use a lot of space comparatively, but wouldn't actually take
> that long to build since again the makefile is reasonably efficient.
> Plus I always build kernels on a tmpfs anyway.

What about an init-script that checks for a specific key-press during boot and 
switches to single-user mode when necessary?

> It generally makes sense to use a bootloader with EFI as a result.

It helps :)

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
>
> I've no idea how tightly bootctl (as gummibot is now called after its
> assimilation in the the systemd collective) is bound to systemd. It may
> well be feasible to create an ebuild that builds bootctl from the systemd
> sources without the rest of systemd, as is already done with udev.
>

It sounds like the integration isn't too tight at runtime at least.

Worst case just install systemd.  It doesn't do anything unless you
change your init= line on your kernel command line.

It sounds like the systemd team is looking into options for keeping
gummiboot around in some form for openrc users.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Neil Bothwick]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:59:41 +, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> I really don't understand the urgency in treecleaning gummiboot.
> Like grub1, it will still work in 10 years time...


I agree, just copy it to a local overlay. If a serious bug does arise,
you then have the choice of trying to persuade someone to backport the fix
from systemd or switch bootloaders.

I've no idea how tightly bootctl (as gummibot is now called after its
assimilation in the the systemd collective) is bound to systemd. It may
well be feasible to create an ebuild that builds bootctl from the systemd
sources without the rest of systemd, as is already done with udev.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 2:34 PM, Håkon Alstadheim
 wrote:
>
> Booting straight into linux on an EFI system without a boot-loader means
> you have no way to provide command-line or initramfs as far as I can
> tell, all modules must be compiled in, and default command-line needs to
> be set in the kernel config.

You can have an initramfs, but it also has to be compiled in.  Just as
with the command line there is an option to include an initramfs in
the kernel.  I think it actually always builds with some kind of stub
of one.  This means that you can use modules.  It is a pita though,
since you'd need to configure your kernel without the initramfs, build
everything, install your modules, build your initramfs, then change
your config to include the initramfs, and THEN rebuild the kernel
itself (which would be fast since most of it is already built), and
run the final make install I guess.

Heaven help you if you need single-user mode or whatever.  Though, I
guess you could build a bunch of kernels with various command lines.
They'd use a lot of space comparatively, but wouldn't actually take
that long to build since again the makefile is reasonably efficient.
Plus I always build kernels on a tmpfs anyway.

It generally makes sense to use a bootloader with EFI as a result.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Håkon Alstadheim]

Den 22. aug. 2016 17:05, skrev Peter Humphrey:
> Hello list,
>
> Following today's marking of gummiboot as to be deleted in a month, I had a 
> look at efibootmgr in the wiki pages. It looks as though I'll be able to use 
> it instead, but one thing puzzles me: is it possible to create a set of 
> configs for several kernels, the way gummiboot does in 
> /boot/loader/entries/*.conf? Actually, I'd also like to specify each of two 
> kernel versions with three different command lines to start different run 
> levels.
>
> My brain isn't working very well today, so would anyone like to offer me 
> some advice? Please?  :)
>
As far as I can tell, you need a separate executable for each
menu-entry. The "menu" would then be the modern descendant of the "bios"
boot-list. Works well for two or three standard boot-configurations.

Booting straight into linux on an EFI system without a boot-loader means
you have no way to provide command-line or initramfs as far as I can
tell, all modules must be compiled in, and default command-line needs to
be set in the kernel config.

EFI executables can also be created for example by dracut, which will
allow kernel, command-line and initramfs in one efi-file. I have never
tried this, I'm using xen.efi (a hypervisor kernel)  with a config file,
which allows loading of separate kernel and initramfs. Config is just a
text file with the same name as the executable, with a .cfg extension.
Linux has no such magic available I believe.

Copying of executables gets unwieldy fast, plus I have found no way to
edit the command-line.

Therefore I keep a grub2 install as well, which has editable
commmand-lines and such, and also  sys-boot/systemrescuecd-x86-grub. I
put GRUB_PLATFORMS="efi-64" in /etc/portage/make.conf. I let
/boot/EFI/Boot/BOOTX64.EFI be a copy of the Grub EFI binary, so that
whenever I update the bios and wipe all efi variables, I can boot into
Grub, given that /boot/EFI is where I mount my EFI boot partition. Works
as advertised. Grub is not able to load xen.efi, so I need to keep
xen.gz around as well for that.

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[Daniel Frey]

On 08/22/2016 08:59 AM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> 
> I really don't understand the urgency in treecleaning gummiboot.
> Like grub1, it will still work in 10 years time...
> 
> --
> Joost
> 

I agree, I still use grub1 on most my installs. No EFI (computers are
old) and just haven't bothered going to something different. "If it
ain't broke, don't fix it."

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] Gummiboot -> efibootmgr

[J. Roeleveld]

On August 22, 2016 5:05:10 PM GMT+02:00, Peter Humphrey  
wrote:
>Hello list,
>
>Following today's marking of gummiboot as to be deleted in a month, I
>had a 
>look at efibootmgr in the wiki pages. It looks as though I'll be able
>to use 
>it instead, but one thing puzzles me: is it possible to create a set of
>
>configs for several kernels, the way gummiboot does in 
>/boot/loader/entries/*.conf? Actually, I'd also like to specify each of
>two 
>kernel versions with three different command lines to start different
>run 
>levels.
>
>My brain isn't working very well today, so would anyone like to offer
>me 
>some advice? Please?  :)

I really don't understand the urgency in treecleaning gummiboot.
Like grub1, it will still work in 10 years time...

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.