Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Friday 15 Apr 2016 10:43:26 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On 14/04/2016 21:39, Mick wrote:
>>> I don't have NVidia or use the full plasma desktop environment on my
>>> laptop (I use enlightenment instead with a Radeon card). However, I have
>>> not added sddm to the video group and have not noticed anything undue in
>>> my logs.  I have however noticed that sddm is slightly slower than kdm.
>>>
>>> Why is the video group needed?  What does it do?
>> It's a simple group permission scheme to allow users access to advanced
>> features on the video card, like what compositing does.
> I'd understand this if sddm was using hardware acceleration to play some 
> video 
> or snazzy graphics while login in.  It looks rather static to me, unless it 
> uses the card to scroll between user icons ... ? 
>


I think I posted this elsewhere.  I have a Nvidia card and use Nvidia's
drivers.  I didn't have sddm in the video group until someone else
posted about it.  I didn't see it in the howto I guess.  Point is, it
worked here.  It doesn't focus on the password field like it should but
it came up, let me login and then started up KDE like it should.  So,
I'm not sure what difference it is but for some at least, it works
without being in the video group.  Card info:

VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GT216 [GeForce GT 220]
(rev a2)

Driver version:

x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-340.96 

Maybe the age of my card is why it works for me.  I don't know.  I just
thought I would share the info in case it will help someone else with
this, maybe figure out why it works for some but not others. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Mick]

On Friday 15 Apr 2016 10:43:26 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 14/04/2016 21:39, Mick wrote:

> > I don't have NVidia or use the full plasma desktop environment on my
> > laptop (I use enlightenment instead with a Radeon card). However, I have
> > not added sddm to the video group and have not noticed anything undue in
> > my logs.  I have however noticed that sddm is slightly slower than kdm.
> > 
> > Why is the video group needed?  What does it do?
> 
> It's a simple group permission scheme to allow users access to advanced
> features on the video card, like what compositing does.

I'd understand this if sddm was using hardware acceleration to play some video 
or snazzy graphics while login in.  It looks rather static to me, unless it 
uses the card to scroll between user icons ... ? 

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

On 14/04/2016 21:39, Mick wrote:
> On Thursday 14 Apr 2016 11:21:39 Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>> 14.04.2016 10:43, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
 14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
> Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
 Hi Dale,

> I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
> started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
> manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
> work.  That may explain the black screen.

 Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
 that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
 appeared after logging in.
>>>
>>> Slow interface?
>>> It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the
>>> "video" group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?
>>
>> No I didn't because I had a much more blatant issue with the whole 
>> desktop than the 'SDDM display issues', I just didn't get to that. 
>> Thanks for pointing it out, next time I'll give it a try.
> 
> I don't have NVidia or use the full plasma desktop environment on my laptop 
> (I 
> use enlightenment instead with a Radeon card). However, I have not added sddm 
> to the video group and have not noticed anything undue in my logs.  I have 
> however noticed that sddm is slightly slower than kdm.
> 
> Why is the video group needed?  What does it do?
> 

It's a simple group permission scheme to allow users access to advanced
features on the video card, like what compositing does.

cdrom has an equivalent, if you're in the group you can use the drive.
If not, you can't

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Mick]

On Thursday 14 Apr 2016 11:21:39 Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> 14.04.2016 10:43, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> >> 14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
> >>> Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> >> Hi Dale,
> >> 
> >>> I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
> >>> started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
> >>> manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
> >>> work.  That may explain the black screen.
> >> 
> >> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
> >> that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
> >> appeared after logging in.
> > 
> > Slow interface?
> > It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the
> > "video" group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?
> 
> No I didn't because I had a much more blatant issue with the whole 
> desktop than the 'SDDM display issues', I just didn't get to that. 
> Thanks for pointing it out, next time I'll give it a try.

I don't have NVidia or use the full plasma desktop environment on my laptop (I 
use enlightenment instead with a Radeon card). However, I have not added sddm 
to the video group and have not noticed anything undue in my logs.  I have 
however noticed that sddm is slightly slower than kdm.

Why is the video group needed?  What does it do?

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Daniel Frey]

On 04/14/2016 09:02 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:14:05 -0700, Daniel Frey wrote:
> 
>> I didn't have any problems with sddm, but that slow interface drove me
>> nuts. I was using nouveau, and I read against running that with nvidia
>> cards, so I installed the binary driver and I went from a very slow
>> interface (i.e. 5-10 seconds to respond to alt-tab, and on resume from
>> standby plasma would hang for 1-2 minutes) to crashing plasma every 3
>> minutes with the binary nvidia driver.
> 
> I'm using nouveau and it takes a good second for the window list to
> appear when pressing Alt-Tab for the first time in a session, but it's
> pretty quick, but not instant, after that. It may depend on the type of
> switcher you are using. I use Breeze, but some of the others are faster.
> 
> 

Hmm. On mine it wouldn't work, I had to keep holding alt for it to
register, eventually it would switch. Simply pressing alt+tab didn't do
anything on my desktop. This happened every time I wanted to switch to a
different window, and it got annoying very quickly.

I did try using different themes, it made no difference, plasma was
hanging (and crashing hard when I switched to the nvidia drivers.)

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Gregory Woodbury]

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 4:21 AM, Yuri K. Shatroff  wrote:

>
>> No idea here, logs?
>>
>
> I didn't see anything relevant in Xorg.?.log (neither in messages) and
> since there was no kdm which usually tracks all KDE messages I didn't know
> where to look. Neither any new log files appeared.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Yuri K. Shatroff
>

​There might be some clues in ~/.xsession-errors, especially if there are
security or bad handle errors.​

-- 
-- 
G.Wolfe Woodbury
redwo...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:14:05 -0700, Daniel Frey wrote:

> I didn't have any problems with sddm, but that slow interface drove me
> nuts. I was using nouveau, and I read against running that with nvidia
> cards, so I installed the binary driver and I went from a very slow
> interface (i.e. 5-10 seconds to respond to alt-tab, and on resume from
> standby plasma would hang for 1-2 minutes) to crashing plasma every 3
> minutes with the binary nvidia driver.

I'm using nouveau and it takes a good second for the window list to
appear when pressing Alt-Tab for the first time in a session, but it's
pretty quick, but not instant, after that. It may depend on the type of
switcher you are using. I use Breeze, but some of the others are faster.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Anyone able to feel pain is trainable.


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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Daniel Frey]

On 04/14/2016 12:33 AM, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> 
> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
> that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
> appeared after logging in.
> 

I didn't have any problems with sddm, but that slow interface drove me
nuts. I was using nouveau, and I read against running that with nvidia
cards, so I installed the binary driver and I went from a very slow
interface (i.e. 5-10 seconds to respond to alt-tab, and on resume from
standby plasma would hang for 1-2 minutes) to crashing plasma every 3
minutes with the binary nvidia driver.

That coupled with an old version of Dolphin being installed creating
inconsistencies in the K menu made me revert and mask plasma for now.
It's far from ready for daily use.

It's not much use if it's that unstable. :-(

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

On 14/04/2016 09:58, Dale wrote:

J. Roeleveld wrote:

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:

14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:

Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:

Hi Dale,


I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
work.  That may explain the black screen.

Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
appeared after logging in.

Slow interface?
It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the "video"
group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?


--
Joost




I missed that part somehow.  I just went and added it to the video group
here.  It worked tho.

While at it, what is a command that lists all the users that are set up
on a system?  I tried a couple things but only found one that lists who
is currently logged in.  I would like them all listed.


cat /etc/passwd

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Yuri K. Shatroff]

14.04.2016 11:36, Dale wrote:

Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:

14.04.2016 10:43, J. Roeleveld wrote:

No idea here, logs?


I didn't see anything relevant in Xorg.?.log (neither in messages) and
since there was no kdm which usually tracks all KDE messages I didn't
know where to look. Neither any new log files appeared.





Since kdm is gone, it's now sddm.log in the same place where kdm was.
This is what my log looks like.  Yours should look something like it I
would think.


[23:29:06.330] (II) DAEMON: Initializing...
[23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Starting...
[23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Adding new display on vt 7 ...
[23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Display server starting...
[23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Running: /usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp -auth
/var/run/sddm/{baadb08a-2764-4aec-b839-6c2b7283ef79} -background none
-noreset -displayfd 17 vt7
[23:29:06.838] (II) DAEMON: Running display setup script
"/usr/share/sddm/scripts/Xsetup"
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Display server started.
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Socket server starting...
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Socket server started.
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Greeter starting...
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Adding cookie to
"/var/run/sddm/{baadb08a-2764-4aec-b839-6c2b7283ef79}"
[23:29:06.847] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Starting...
[23:29:06.847] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Authenticating...
[23:29:06.847] (II) HELPER: [PAM] returning.
[23:29:06.848] (II) DAEMON: Greeter session started successfully
[23:29:06.865] (II) DAEMON: Message received from greeter: Connect
[23:29:22.968] (II) DAEMON: Message received from greeter: Login
[23:29:22.969] (II) DAEMON: Reading from
"/usr/share/xsessions/plasma.desktop"
[23:29:22.969] (II) DAEMON: Session
"/usr/share/xsessions/plasma.desktop" selected, command: "/usr/bin/startkde"
[23:29:22.975] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Starting...
[23:29:22.975] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Authenticating...
[23:29:23.012] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Preparing to converse...
[23:29:23.012] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Conversation with 1 messages
[23:29:23.323] (II) HELPER: [PAM] returning.
[23:29:23.353] (II) DAEMON: Authenticated successfully
[23:29:23.360] (II) HELPER: Starting: "/usr/share/sddm/scripts/Xsession"
"/usr/bin/startkde"
[23:29:23.362] (II) HELPER: Adding cookie to "/home/dale/.Xauthority"
[23:29:23.366] (II) DAEMON: Session started
[23:29:23.384] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Ended.
[23:29:23.384] (II) DAEMON: Auth: sddm-helper exited successfully
[23:29:23.385] (II) DAEMON: Greeter stopped.


I think I got a complete section of it.


Ah, I remember that one, but no, there wasn't anything related to black 
screens.
I believe it was some internal problem with nvidia drivers and plasma-5 
3D effects. This can explain the presence of mouse pointer and menus 
flickering-through the black screen.


I'll probably repeat that a while later when I have more time. That 
first post of mine was too emotional, I like to be on the bleeding edge, 
even despite such faux pas. Thanks everyone for your replies!



Dale

:-)  :-)



--
Regards,
Yuri K. Shatroff

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> 14.04.2016 10:43, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> No idea here, logs?
>
> I didn't see anything relevant in Xorg.?.log (neither in messages) and
> since there was no kdm which usually tracks all KDE messages I didn't
> know where to look. Neither any new log files appeared.
>
>


Since kdm is gone, it's now sddm.log in the same place where kdm was. 
This is what my log looks like.  Yours should look something like it I
would think.


[23:29:06.330] (II) DAEMON: Initializing...
[23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Starting...
[23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Adding new display on vt 7 ...
[23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Display server starting...
[23:29:06.334] (II) DAEMON: Running: /usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp -auth
/var/run/sddm/{baadb08a-2764-4aec-b839-6c2b7283ef79} -background none
-noreset -displayfd 17 vt7
[23:29:06.838] (II) DAEMON: Running display setup script 
"/usr/share/sddm/scripts/Xsetup"
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Display server started.
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Socket server starting...
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Socket server started.
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Greeter starting...
[23:29:06.842] (II) DAEMON: Adding cookie to
"/var/run/sddm/{baadb08a-2764-4aec-b839-6c2b7283ef79}"
[23:29:06.847] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Starting...
[23:29:06.847] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Authenticating...
[23:29:06.847] (II) HELPER: [PAM] returning.
[23:29:06.848] (II) DAEMON: Greeter session started successfully
[23:29:06.865] (II) DAEMON: Message received from greeter: Connect
[23:29:22.968] (II) DAEMON: Message received from greeter: Login
[23:29:22.969] (II) DAEMON: Reading from
"/usr/share/xsessions/plasma.desktop"
[23:29:22.969] (II) DAEMON: Session
"/usr/share/xsessions/plasma.desktop" selected, command: "/usr/bin/startkde"
[23:29:22.975] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Starting...
[23:29:22.975] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Authenticating...
[23:29:23.012] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Preparing to converse...
[23:29:23.012] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Conversation with 1 messages
[23:29:23.323] (II) HELPER: [PAM] returning.
[23:29:23.353] (II) DAEMON: Authenticated successfully
[23:29:23.360] (II) HELPER: Starting: "/usr/share/sddm/scripts/Xsession"
"/usr/bin/startkde"
[23:29:23.362] (II) HELPER: Adding cookie to "/home/dale/.Xauthority"
[23:29:23.366] (II) DAEMON: Session started
[23:29:23.384] (II) HELPER: [PAM] Ended.
[23:29:23.384] (II) DAEMON: Auth: sddm-helper exited successfully
[23:29:23.385] (II) DAEMON: Greeter stopped.


I think I got a complete section of it. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:14:14 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> > cat /etc/passwd ;-)
> > 
> > Or if you want to get clever and give just a list of usernames
> > 
> > awk -F: '{print $1}' /etc/passwd  
> 
> This doesn't work when using LDAP authentication or similar:
> 
> nas ~ # cat /etc/passwd | grep joost
> nas ~ # getent passwd | grep joost
> joost:x:1000:1000:System User:/home/joost:/bin/bash
> nas ~ # 

I know, but for Dale's purposes I knew it would be fine... and I didn't
need to double-check the use of cat :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Master of all I survey (at the moment, empty pizza boxes)


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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Yuri K. Shatroff]

14.04.2016 10:43, J. Roeleveld wrote:

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:

14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:

Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:



Hi Dale,


I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
work.  That may explain the black screen.


Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
appeared after logging in.


Slow interface?
It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the "video"
group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?


No I didn't because I had a much more blatant issue with the whole 
desktop than the 'SDDM display issues', I just didn't get to that. 
Thanks for pointing it out, next time I'll give it a try.



If it after you login, did you select the write session?  At first, I
wasn't sure which one to pick.  There is a couple at least KDE related.
I think I had one that said plasma and one that said KDE wayland.  I
have seen wayland talked about and tried it but I got a black screen.  I
had to restart xdm to reset it.  Then I chose plasma from the list and
it worked.  So, make sure you pick the right one.


There were three choices for the session. By default plasma was
selected, this was the one that gave me the black screen. Others didn't
plain work (returned to sddm).


No idea here, logs?


I didn't see anything relevant in Xorg.?.log (neither in messages) and 
since there was no kdm which usually tracks all KDE messages I didn't 
know where to look. Neither any new log files appeared.



--
Regards,
Yuri K. Shatroff

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:58:09 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> While at it, what is a command that lists all the users that are set up
>> on a system?  I tried a couple things but only found one that lists who
>> is currently logged in.  I would like them all listed. 
> cat /etc/passwd ;-)
>
> Or if you want to get clever and give just a list of usernames
>
> awk -F: '{print $1}' /etc/passwd
>
>


It appears both yours and Joost's spit out the passwd file.  It works
tho.  I knew there was a way but couldn't remember what it was.  There
sure are a lot of them. 

Thanks to both.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 09:03:08 AM Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:58:09 -0500, Dale wrote:
> > While at it, what is a command that lists all the users that are set up
> > on a system?  I tried a couple things but only found one that lists who
> > is currently logged in.  I would like them all listed.
> 
> cat /etc/passwd ;-)
> 
> Or if you want to get clever and give just a list of usernames
> 
> awk -F: '{print $1}' /etc/passwd

This doesn't work when using LDAP authentication or similar:

nas ~ # cat /etc/passwd | grep joost
nas ~ # getent passwd | grep joost
joost:x:1000:1000:System User:/home/joost:/bin/bash
nas ~ # 

--
Joost

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:58:09 -0500, Dale wrote:

> While at it, what is a command that lists all the users that are set up
> on a system?  I tried a couple things but only found one that lists who
> is currently logged in.  I would like them all listed. 

cat /etc/passwd ;-)

Or if you want to get clever and give just a list of usernames

awk -F: '{print $1}' /etc/passwd


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Set phasers to extreme itching!


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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 02:58:09 AM Dale wrote:
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> >> 14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
> >>> Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> >> Hi Dale,
> >> 
> >>> I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
> >>> started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
> >>> manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
> >>> work.  That may explain the black screen.
> >> 
> >> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
> >> that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
> >> appeared after logging in.
> > 
> > Slow interface?
> > It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the
> > "video" group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Joost
> 
> I missed that part somehow.  I just went and added it to the video group
> here.  It worked tho.
> 
> While at it, what is a command that lists all the users that are set up
> on a system?  I tried a couple things but only found one that lists who
> is currently logged in.  I would like them all listed.

You mean things like:

# getent passwd
# getent group

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>> 14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
>>> Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>> Hi Dale,
>>
>>> I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
>>> started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
>>> manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
>>> work.  That may explain the black screen.
>> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
>> that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
>> appeared after logging in.
> Slow interface?
> It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the "video" 
> group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?
>
>
> --
> Joost
>
>

I missed that part somehow.  I just went and added it to the video group
here.  It worked tho. 

While at it, what is a command that lists all the users that are set up
on a system?  I tried a couple things but only found one that lists who
is currently logged in.  I would like them all listed. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:33:10 AM Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> 14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:
> > Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:

> Hi Dale,
> 
> > I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
> > started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
> > manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
> > work.  That may explain the black screen.
> 
> Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for
> that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen
> appeared after logging in.

Slow interface?
It works quite well on my laptop. Did you add the "sddm" user to the "video" 
group as mentioned in the upgrade guide?

> > If it after you login, did you select the write session?  At first, I
> > wasn't sure which one to pick.  There is a couple at least KDE related.
> > I think I had one that said plasma and one that said KDE wayland.  I
> > have seen wayland talked about and tried it but I got a black screen.  I
> > had to restart xdm to reset it.  Then I chose plasma from the list and
> > it worked.  So, make sure you pick the right one.
> 
> There were three choices for the session. By default plasma was
> selected, this was the one that gave me the black screen. Others didn't
> plain work (returned to sddm).

No idea here, logs?


--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Yuri K. Shatroff]

14.04.2016 00:49, Dale wrote:

Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:

Hi guys,

12.04.2016 08:38, Dale wrote:

Howdy,

Well, I went and did it.


So I went and did it, too.
Thank gods I made a backup. After emerging plasma-meta which wasn't
too easy because of dependency hell with eg networkmanager (Use-flag
on plasma-meta was off but it turned out that another dependency
(`plasma-workspace`) has a quite irrelevant use-flag (`geolocation`)
which pulls in networkmanager) and ruby and all, I just got a black
screen with a sole mouse pointer. When I click mouse buttons, it
flickers and shows a glimpse of what the desktop should be, but then
again switches to black screen. I tried to remove ~/.kde4 but nothing
effectively changed.
Thanks but No thanks, I prefer to restore my backup. Not gonna repeat
this at home.




Hi Dale,



I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
work.  That may explain the black screen.


Sddm worked as expected, not to mention its veeery slow interface (for 
that nvidia drivers can be blamed, but whatever). The black screen 
appeared after logging in.



If it after you login, did you select the write session?  At first, I
wasn't sure which one to pick.  There is a couple at least KDE related.
I think I had one that said plasma and one that said KDE wayland.  I
have seen wayland talked about and tried it but I got a black screen.  I
had to restart xdm to reset it.  Then I chose plasma from the list and
it worked.  So, make sure you pick the right one.


There were three choices for the session. By default plasma was 
selected, this was the one that gave me the black screen. Others didn't 
plain work (returned to sddm).



I might add, I don't solely depend on KDE for my desktop.  I have
Fluxbox and some other one as a backup.  If for some reason KDE doesn't
work, I use one of the backup desktops to get help.  Sometimes, it can
be something simple to fix which is better than losing everything that
was already done.  For me, it doesn't matter what that backup is as long
as my web browser and email program will run and is usable.  If I have
that, I can google and if needed post on this list for help.


Thanks for the hint, it's a good idea, I also had a couple of times when 
a working X would be helpful but failed to start due to kde related issues.


As for the new plasma stuff, I have almost all possible kde packages 
updated to 5.x (unstable), with the exception of kdm, kwin, settings and 
several others. My emerge of plasma-meta replaced these and additionally 
installed 78 packages, the larger half of which wasn't kde related 
(ruby, . What could have caused a black screen, I have no slightest idea 
and since it prevented me from work I gave it up.



Dale

:-)  :-)




--
Regards,
Yuri K. Shatroff

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Howdy,

Same topic sort of so going to try the same thread first.  I've run up
on something weird but I'm not real sure where to start looking.  This
is what I do and what I get in return.  I have my desktop set to folder
view which gives me icons on my desktop.  When I click on a folder, it
is supposed to open Konqueror.  It does, it really does open konqueror. 
It opens it with dozens of instances and more than once went over 100
before I could kill the thing.  Obviously, I only need one instance. 

My question.  What program actually tells it to launch that first
instance?  In other words, when I click on a folder, what is it that
tells Konqueror to open?  I think I'd like to downgrade that package for
a bit.  It seems to have a bug, a really bad one with a lot of legs. 

How I got here.  Since the plasma thing was crashing so much, I thought
a unstable plasma package might have it fixed.  Well, it stopped
crashing after I keyworded a long list of packages and did the upgrade. 
Thing is, now I get this multiple instances of Konqueror instead of just
one.  Here is a list of those packages. 



=kde-plasma/plasma-meta-5.6.2
=kde-plasma/powerdevil-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kwidgetsaddons-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/ksysguard-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/ksshaskpass-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kbookmarks-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/libksysguard-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kconfig-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kitemmodels-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/attica-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/sddm-kcm-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/milou-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/khelpcenter-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kglobalaccel-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kwallet-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kservice-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/khotkeys-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kpeople-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/karchive-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/systemsettings-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/user-manager-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kdelibs4support-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/oxygen-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kxmlgui-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kdoctools-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kunitconversion-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kdeplasma-addons-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/libkscreen-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kcmutils-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kpackage-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kcrash-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kidletime-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/plasma-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kcodecs-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/extra-cmake-modules-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kfilemetadata-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kdesignerplugin-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kactivitymanagerd-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kparts-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/threadweaver-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kwrited-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/plasma-workspace-wallpapers-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/knotifications-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kcompletion-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/ki18n-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/solid-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kgamma-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kitemviews-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kcoreaddons-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kwayland-integration-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/baloo-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kwindowsystem-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kio-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kauth-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kguiaddons-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kdewebkit-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kconfigwidgets-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kdbusaddons-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kscreen-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/knotifyconfig-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kdeclarative-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/knewstuff-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/sonnet-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/plasma-desktop-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kjobwidgets-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/ktextwidgets-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kde-gtk-config-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kinit-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kiconthemes-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/breeze-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/breeze-gtk-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kinfocenter-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/plasma-workspace-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/krunner-5.21.0 ~amd64
=kde-plasma/kmenuedit-5.6.2 ~amd64
=kde-frameworks/kemoticons-5.21.0 ~amd64


I figure one of those packages is responsible for this but none of them
are obvious to me as to if it is the one or not.  Anyone have a clue
which one it could be? 

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> 12.04.2016 08:38, Dale wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Well, I went and did it.
>
> So I went and did it, too.
> Thank gods I made a backup. After emerging plasma-meta which wasn't
> too easy because of dependency hell with eg networkmanager (Use-flag
> on plasma-meta was off but it turned out that another dependency
> (`plasma-workspace`) has a quite irrelevant use-flag (`geolocation`)
> which pulls in networkmanager) and ruby and all, I just got a black
> screen with a sole mouse pointer. When I click mouse buttons, it
> flickers and shows a glimpse of what the desktop should be, but then
> again switches to black screen. I tried to remove ~/.kde4 but nothing
> effectively changed.
> Thanks but No thanks, I prefer to restore my backup. Not gonna repeat
> this at home.
>
>


I'm not sure on where you got the black screen.  If it is when X
started, did you switch to sddm or some other compatible display
manager?  The old kdm isn't supported and from what I read, doesn't
work.  That may explain the black screen. 

If it after you login, did you select the write session?  At first, I
wasn't sure which one to pick.  There is a couple at least KDE related. 
I think I had one that said plasma and one that said KDE wayland.  I
have seen wayland talked about and tried it but I got a black screen.  I
had to restart xdm to reset it.  Then I chose plasma from the list and
it worked.  So, make sure you pick the right one. 

I might add, I don't solely depend on KDE for my desktop.  I have
Fluxbox and some other one as a backup.  If for some reason KDE doesn't
work, I use one of the backup desktops to get help.  Sometimes, it can
be something simple to fix which is better than losing everything that
was already done.  For me, it doesn't matter what that backup is as long
as my web browser and email program will run and is usable.  If I have
that, I can google and if needed post on this list for help. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alec Ten Harmsel]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 09:55:48PM -0500, Dale wrote:
> 
> If anyone is brave enough to file a bug, I can say that it doesn't focus
> on the password here either.  It selects the user but that's it.  Since
> it works on some themes and not others, makes one wonder if the theme
> has something to do with it. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

I have been writing a lot of Qt'd code recently. If I have time and
remember, I'll fix it. Can't be that hard.

Alec

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Yuri K. Shatroff]

Hi guys,

12.04.2016 08:38, Dale wrote:

Howdy,

Well, I went and did it.


So I went and did it, too.
Thank gods I made a backup. After emerging plasma-meta which wasn't too 
easy because of dependency hell with eg networkmanager (Use-flag on 
plasma-meta was off but it turned out that another dependency 
(`plasma-workspace`) has a quite irrelevant use-flag (`geolocation`) 
which pulls in networkmanager) and ruby and all, I just got a black 
screen with a sole mouse pointer. When I click mouse buttons, it 
flickers and shows a glimpse of what the desktop should be, but then 
again switches to black screen. I tried to remove ~/.kde4 but nothing 
effectively changed.
Thanks but No thanks, I prefer to restore my backup. Not gonna repeat 
this at home.



--
Regards,
Yuri K. Shatroff

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:22:12 -0700, Daniel Frey wrote:

> > If anyone is brave enough to file a bug, I can say that it doesn't
> > focus on the password here either.  It selects the user but that's
> > it.  Since it works on some themes and not others, makes one wonder
> > if the theme has something to do with it. 

> Apparently it does have something to do with the theme. I found this by
> accident when looking around for more themes:
> 
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=337079
> 
> I supposed if you wanted to edit it yourself it could be fixed.

The bodge posted in that bug report is in the Breeze theme file, which
must be why it works, but there is no corresponding section in the Maui
theme. I use auto-login so I rarely see the sddm screen anyway, so I'll
just leave it at Breeze.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Processor: (n.) a device for converting sense to nonsense at the speed
   of electricity, or (rarely) the reverse.


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Daniel Frey]

On 04/12/16 19:55, Dale wrote:

> If anyone is brave enough to file a bug, I can say that it doesn't focus
> on the password here either.  It selects the user but that's it.  Since
> it works on some themes and not others, makes one wonder if the theme
> has something to do with it. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

Apparently it does have something to do with the theme. I found this by
accident when looking around for more themes:

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=337079

I supposed if you wanted to edit it yourself it could be fixed.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 01:21:37 PM Dale wrote:
>> J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 02:04:47 AM Dale wrote:
 <<< SNIP >>>


 Dale

 :-)  :-)
>>> Dale,
>>>
>>> Considering the amount of changes, did you reboot the system or at least
>>> killed everything running at least once?
>>>
>>> That should also help with the stability.
>>>
>>> Also, I used the following 2 meta-packages:
>>> kde-apps/kde-apps-meta
>>> kde-plasma/plasma-meta
>>>
>>> This gave me most stuff, including the configuration for virtual desktop
>>> in the same place (SystemSettings)
>>>
>>> Start that, then search for "Virtual Desktops" and the only working icon
>>> is
>>> where you need to be.
>>>
>>> The pager thing to select the virtual desktops appears magically then.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joost
>> Update and some info for Joost.
> Thanks, as I now have a bit more time, I will add my own thoughts as well.
>
>> I been playing with this a while and found some things.  First, I had to
>> get to the settings part which would only give a error working.  When I
>> got to the edit part, I figured out that for some reason, it was still
>> trying to run the KDE4 command, which was removed during the upgrade of
>> course.  So, I got that back by giving it the new command,
>> systemsettings5 I think was it.  That helped.
> Hmm, I actually started it from the K-menu. When it's opened, you can search 
> through all the entries by simply typing.
> I did do an " emerge --depclean " before trying to configure things. Eg. 
> systemsettings for kde4 disappeared already.

That is sort of what I was trying to do except I was looking for the
actual menu entry.  The problem is, the one for settings was not using
the correct command.  I'm not sure what to think about that.  Anyway,
after I fixed that, that lead to a lot more fixes on other things. 


>> Once in there, I found
>> lots of things to help get things to where I could work with them.  I
>> found out that I could add multiple desktops back and at that point, the
>> desktop pager thingy appeared and worked.  I guess when it is set to 1
>> desktop, it doesn't show up or something.
> Which seems logical behaviour to me. And the same happened here after 
> configuring it.
>

It is logical.  I knew I had to enable multiple desktops but since the
settings thing wasn't working, I couldn't figure out how to enable it. 
When I did a google search, I saw where several folks said it was gone
which caused me great concern.  I got to much stuff going on right now
to redo my whole setup. 


>> I also got it to where it
>> wouldn't turn my monitor off and lock the screen if I turned my head a
>> minute.
> I use my laptop also when at "public" places, like at a customer. Which means 
> the auto-lock-screen-after-5-minutes is a useful feature.
> Now if only I could have that time auto-adjusted based on the network it's 
> connected to? :)

Yea, the setting it had would be good for a public place or a laptop
that can be any number of places.  For my desktop tho, it was way to
quick.  Actually, I disabled the lock part.  I just want my monitor to
turn off after a while.  If I want to lock the screen, I just use the
keyboard shortcut ctrl alt L. 


>> Then I found out how to adjust the size of fonts in a lot of
>> other places.  Now that helped a lot.  I was using a magnifying glass to
>> read some stuff.  I also set the numlock to on.  I have numbers in my
>> password and that was getting annoying to have to turn on.
>>
>> I very rarely reboot.  After a big upgrade, I just go to single user,
>> use the checkrestart command to be sure and then go back to default
>> runlevel.  I also generally clear the cache and such too.  I restart or
>> kill anything checkrestart shows if needed.
> I had issues where checkrestart wouldn't kill enough, or didn't notice 
> changes 
> to configuration. Hibernate (eg. suspend-to-disk) didn't work from kde until 
> I 
> rebooted.

I've never had that here.  It seems to always work for me but you may
have something installed that I don't. 

>> I do have those packages installed.  I emerged plasma-meta and that
>> pulled in a lot.  Since I run some unstable stuff already, I had to
>> adjust some things to get emerge happy.  After that, it was a large
>> download and a lot of compile time.
> Those 2 pull in nearly everything.
>
>> As it is, the biggest thing is that it doesn't seem to carry over
>> settings from KDE4.  It seems to start out fresh just like if it was a
>> clean install.
> That is actually mentioned in the upgrade-guide. Just not in so-many words.
> I actually think that's a good thing as a lot of the issues I had when first 
> switching to KDE4 was caused by left-over settings from KDE3. A fresh start 
> helped a lot.

If I recall correctly, when I did the upgrade from KDE3 to KDE4, I tried
to use my old settings.  It was a mess.  I ended up renaming the
directory and starting fresh.  Some things were just weird.  

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Marc Joliet wrote:
>
> On Tuesday 12 April 2016 22:10:10 Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
>
> >I don't particularly like SDDM. I does not allow me to log in using
> just the
>
> >keyboard, I always have to click into the password field after it
> loaded up.
>
> >The field is neither active by default nor can I select it with Tab.
> Call it
>
> >a nitpick, but even Windows lets me enter my password without a
> mouse. Is it
>
> >a problem with my VM or can you confirm this?
>
>  
>
> I find it depends on the SDDM theme used. After the upgrade, on both
> systems, SDDM used Maui by default, with which I had two problems: the
> password field never started out focused, and it would always display
> that I had selected an English locale... except the instant I press a
> key, it would switch to German -- apparently a UI issue :-/ . I
> subsequently switched to the Breeze theme and haven't had any serious
> issues since -- SDDM doesn't show my user's avatar, while the screen
> locker does, but that's it, I think).
>
>  
>
> HTH
>
> -- 
>
> Marc Joliet
>
> --
>
> "People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who
> know we
>
> don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup
>
>  
>


If anyone is brave enough to file a bug, I can say that it doesn't focus
on the password here either.  It selects the user but that's it.  Since
it works on some themes and not others, makes one wonder if the theme
has something to do with it. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 14:00:37 -0700, Daniel Frey wrote:

> > That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my
> > laptop it works more or less as expected, but on my desktop,
> > selecting reboot or power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm
> > without rebooting. I'm nit sure if this is an issue with sddm or
> > plasma, maybe I'll try slim instead.

> SDDM was doing that to me too until I created a default config.

That appears to have worked, thanks.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million
typewriters will eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare.
Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.


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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Daniel Frey]

On 04/12/16 11:53, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:21:37 -0500, Dale wrote:
> 
>> Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
>> from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
>> fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
>> and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
>> different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
>> settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to. 
> 
> That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my laptop it
> works more or less as expected, but on my desktop, selecting reboot or
> power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm without rebooting. I'm
> nit sure if this is an issue with sddm or plasma, maybe I'll try slim
> instead.
> 
> 

SDDM was doing that to me too until I created a default config.

I don't really have any issues with SDDM itself, it seems to work.
Although when I'm at the login screen and I click the power button I was
expecting a menu to pop up asking whether I wanted to restart or
shutdown, and it proceeded to shut down on me... I rarely do this from
the login screen so not a huge issue for me.

I have noticed a couple weird things. I wanted to add a network "place"
in dolphin, and it didn't do it - but it added it to the K menu's
computer tab and now I can't figure out how to remove it from there.

Oh, I was messing around with panels again and accidently removed the
entire task bar again -_- but KDE popped up a nice big undo button for
me! That was kind of nice. Everytime I upgrade I always forget and
remove the whole panel and not the widget...

One other issue is Clementine's nifty tray icon is gone, replaced by
some weird kde5 generic thing. Anyone know how I can get the original
one back? I used it frequently as it had more than the
pause/forward/back that the generic kde one has.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Marc Joliet]

On Tuesday 12 April 2016 22:10:10 Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
>I don't particularly like SDDM. I does not allow me to log in using just the
>keyboard, I always have to click into the password field after it loaded up.
>The field is neither active by default nor can I select it with Tab. Call it
>a nitpick, but even Windows lets me enter my password without a mouse. Is it
>a problem with my VM or can you confirm this?

I find it depends on the SDDM theme used.  After the upgrade, on both systems,
SDDM used Maui by default, with which I had two problems: the password field 
never
started out focused, and it would always display that I had selected an English 
locale...
except the instant I press a key, it would switch to German -- apparently a UI 
issue :-/ .
I subsequently switched to the Breeze theme and haven't had any serious issues
since -- SDDM doesn't show my user's avatar, while the screen locker does, but 
that's
it, I think).

HTH
--
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

On 12/04/2016 22:10, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 07:53:34PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:21:37 -0500, Dale wrote:

8<

>>> Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
>>> from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
>>> fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
>>> and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
>>> different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
>>> settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to.
>>
>> That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my laptop it
>> works more or less as expected, but on my desktop, selecting reboot or
>> power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm without rebooting.
> 
> I don't particularly like SDDM. I does not allow me to log in using just the
> keyboard, I always have to click into the password field after it loaded up.
> The field is neither active by default nor can I select it with Tab. Call it
> a nitpick, but even Windows lets me enter my password without a mouse. Is it
> a problem with my VM or can you confirm this?

It get it as well. But worse, it's erratic. Sometimes the password field
has focus on startup, sometimes now. Sometimes my usert account is
selected sometimes not.

I have a suspicion it's somehow related to whether I press Enter to
initiate login, or click the button with a mouse. But that takes too
many logouts to verify so I haven't checked :-)



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Frank Steinmetzger]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 07:53:34PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:21:37 -0500, Dale wrote:

A while ago I set up a VM in which I can observe KDE 5 as it matures. Right
now I find it not yet usable, mostly because many things are not yet ported
and because of random crashes of plasma. (And I too find Breeze too much
space-consuming, plus there are those single-colour icons that are clearly
inspired by Spysoft Windows 10).
Oh well, in the early days of KDE 4 I was a huge fan of KDE 3’s Crystal
icons, and now I really like Oxygen. It is always a question of getting used
to change. But those thin, colourless, sometimes abstract lines really make
it more difficult to recognise stuff, making it also a UX issue.

> > Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
> > from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
> > fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
> > and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
> > different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
> > settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to.
>
> That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my laptop it
> works more or less as expected, but on my desktop, selecting reboot or
> power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm without rebooting.

I don't particularly like SDDM. I does not allow me to log in using just the
keyboard, I always have to click into the password field after it loaded up.
The field is neither active by default nor can I select it with Tab. Call it
a nitpick, but even Windows lets me enter my password without a mouse. Is it
a problem with my VM or can you confirm this?

This would more belong to a KDE forum, but since I’m at it, I can just as
well blurb it here. :)
I have a similar argument about the new cascading (“old-style”) Application
menu in KDE 5: In KDE 4, I can access any item in the Leave menu (and any
other submenu, for that matter) with Alt+F1 and two letters (as long as they
get a shortcut letter assigned). This is not possible anymore due to the new
search field.
Well, my argument is a bit self-contradicting because in KDE 3 SuSE hat a
similar search field in the menu and back then I actually liked that. But
nowadays we have KRunner for searching. The cascading menu is perfect for
fast keyboard-based navigation using the starting letter. And even though I
don’t use the favorites feature myself, those are also not accessible with
the keyboard at all.

-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me with any social network.

“A computer is like air conditioning:
it becomes useless when you open Windows.” – Linus Torvalds


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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:21:37 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
>> from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
>> fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
>> and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
>> different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
>> settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to. 
> That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my laptop it
> works more or less as expected, but on my desktop, selecting reboot or
> power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm without rebooting. I'm
> nit sure if this is an issue with sddm or plasma, maybe I'll try slim
> instead.
>
>


Yea, when I was googling around I found out that the plug was pulled on
kdm.  The old kdm always worked for me but KDE5 and the plasma thing is
a whole new can of worms code wise from what I read.  I guess a fresh
start was easier than trying to recode all that mess. 

I haven't tried rebooting/shutdown yet so I guess I'll find out one time
or another if I have the same problem.  Generally tho, I only
shutdown/reboot when I have a power failure here.  So far, I'm at 118
days.  When I do that, I usually do it within KDE since I already know I
have to shutdown and I'm almost always logged in. 

I'm just glad this is a little smoother than the KDE3 to KDE4 mess.  :-) 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 07:53:34 PM Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:21:37 -0500, Dale wrote:
> > Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
> > from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
> > fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
> > and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
> > different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
> > settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to.
> 
> That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my laptop it
> works more or less as expected, but on my desktop, selecting reboot or
> power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm without rebooting. I'm
> nit sure if this is an issue with sddm or plasma, maybe I'll try slim
> instead.

That could also be caused by polkit, consolekit or similar not allowing the 
reboot on your desktop.

--
Joost

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 01:21:37 PM Dale wrote:
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 02:04:47 AM Dale wrote:
> >> <<< SNIP >>>
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Dale
> >> 
> >> :-)  :-)
> > 
> > Dale,
> > 
> > Considering the amount of changes, did you reboot the system or at least
> > killed everything running at least once?
> > 
> > That should also help with the stability.
> > 
> > Also, I used the following 2 meta-packages:
> > kde-apps/kde-apps-meta
> > kde-plasma/plasma-meta
> > 
> > This gave me most stuff, including the configuration for virtual desktop
> > in the same place (SystemSettings)
> > 
> > Start that, then search for "Virtual Desktops" and the only working icon
> > is
> > where you need to be.
> > 
> > The pager thing to select the virtual desktops appears magically then.
> > 
> > --
> > Joost
> 
> Update and some info for Joost.

Thanks, as I now have a bit more time, I will add my own thoughts as well.

> I been playing with this a while and found some things.  First, I had to
> get to the settings part which would only give a error working.  When I
> got to the edit part, I figured out that for some reason, it was still
> trying to run the KDE4 command, which was removed during the upgrade of
> course.  So, I got that back by giving it the new command,
> systemsettings5 I think was it.  That helped.

Hmm, I actually started it from the K-menu. When it's opened, you can search 
through all the entries by simply typing.
I did do an " emerge --depclean " before trying to configure things. Eg. 
systemsettings for kde4 disappeared already.

> Once in there, I found
> lots of things to help get things to where I could work with them.  I
> found out that I could add multiple desktops back and at that point, the
> desktop pager thingy appeared and worked.  I guess when it is set to 1
> desktop, it doesn't show up or something.

Which seems logical behaviour to me. And the same happened here after 
configuring it.

> I also got it to where it
> wouldn't turn my monitor off and lock the screen if I turned my head a
> minute.

I use my laptop also when at "public" places, like at a customer. Which means 
the auto-lock-screen-after-5-minutes is a useful feature.
Now if only I could have that time auto-adjusted based on the network it's 
connected to? :)

> Then I found out how to adjust the size of fonts in a lot of
> other places.  Now that helped a lot.  I was using a magnifying glass to
> read some stuff.  I also set the numlock to on.  I have numbers in my
> password and that was getting annoying to have to turn on.
> 
> I very rarely reboot.  After a big upgrade, I just go to single user,
> use the checkrestart command to be sure and then go back to default
> runlevel.  I also generally clear the cache and such too.  I restart or
> kill anything checkrestart shows if needed.

I had issues where checkrestart wouldn't kill enough, or didn't notice changes 
to configuration. Hibernate (eg. suspend-to-disk) didn't work from kde until I 
rebooted.

> I do have those packages installed.  I emerged plasma-meta and that
> pulled in a lot.  Since I run some unstable stuff already, I had to
> adjust some things to get emerge happy.  After that, it was a large
> download and a lot of compile time.

Those 2 pull in nearly everything.

> As it is, the biggest thing is that it doesn't seem to carry over
> settings from KDE4.  It seems to start out fresh just like if it was a
> clean install.

That is actually mentioned in the upgrade-guide. Just not in so-many words.
I actually think that's a good thing as a lot of the issues I had when first 
switching to KDE4 was caused by left-over settings from KDE3. A fresh start 
helped a lot.

> Other than that, it's OK.  I still get the occasional
> plasma crash tho.  It's not as often but it still pops up on occasion.

I've had 1 today, when I clicked on the up-pointing triangle to get all the 
hidden systray items. That was, so far, the only one.

> I may start a emerge -e world.  I haven't done that in a while anyway
> and it usually clears up weird issues that can't quite be figured out.
> 
> Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
> from kdm to sddm and it just works.

Same here, and mentioned in the upgrade-guide.
I actually did the change to SDDM before switching to KDE5/Plasma.

> It looks different but it works
> fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
> and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
> different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
> settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to.

Yes, you can.
Google for " sddm themes ".
They go in " /usr/share/sddm/themes "

The OCD one looks like the KDM Oxygen theme...

Now for my thoughts:

I haven't found a decent colourscheme yet (There wasn't one for KDE4 either)

Most of the apps are ok, just waiting for KDevelop 5 to appear in the tree.

My biggest complaint though:

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:21:37 -0500, Dale wrote:

> Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
> from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
> fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
> and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
> different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
> settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to. 

That's because kdm is dead. I found sddm a little flakey. On my laptop it
works more or less as expected, but on my desktop, selecting reboot or
power off from the desktop drops me back to sddm without rebooting. I'm
nit sure if this is an issue with sddm or plasma, maybe I'll try slim
instead.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

A printer consists of three main parts: the case, the jammed paper tray
and the blinking red light.


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 02:04:47 AM Dale wrote:
>>
>> <<< SNIP >>>
>>
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
> Dale,
>
> Considering the amount of changes, did you reboot the system or at least 
> killed everything running at least once?
>
> That should also help with the stability.
>
> Also, I used the following 2 meta-packages:
> kde-apps/kde-apps-meta
> kde-plasma/plasma-meta
>
> This gave me most stuff, including the configuration for virtual desktop in 
> the 
> same place (SystemSettings)
>
> Start that, then search for "Virtual Desktops" and the only working icon is 
> where you need to be.
>
> The pager thing to select the virtual desktops appears magically then.
>
> --
> Joost
>
>

Update and some info for Joost.

I been playing with this a while and found some things.  First, I had to
get to the settings part which would only give a error working.  When I
got to the edit part, I figured out that for some reason, it was still
trying to run the KDE4 command, which was removed during the upgrade of
course.  So, I got that back by giving it the new command,
systemsettings5 I think was it.  That helped.  Once in there, I found
lots of things to help get things to where I could work with them.  I
found out that I could add multiple desktops back and at that point, the
desktop pager thingy appeared and worked.  I guess when it is set to 1
desktop, it doesn't show up or something.  I also got it to where it
wouldn't turn my monitor off and lock the screen if I turned my head a
minute.  Then I found out how to adjust the size of fonts in a lot of
other places.  Now that helped a lot.  I was using a magnifying glass to
read some stuff.  I also set the numlock to on.  I have numbers in my
password and that was getting annoying to have to turn on. 

I very rarely reboot.  After a big upgrade, I just go to single user,
use the checkrestart command to be sure and then go back to default
runlevel.  I also generally clear the cache and such too.  I restart or
kill anything checkrestart shows if needed. 

I do have those packages installed.  I emerged plasma-meta and that
pulled in a lot.  Since I run some unstable stuff already, I had to
adjust some things to get emerge happy.  After that, it was a large
download and a lot of compile time. 

As it is, the biggest thing is that it doesn't seem to carry over
settings from KDE4.  It seems to start out fresh just like if it was a
clean install.  Other than that, it's OK.  I still get the occasional
plasma crash tho.  It's not as often but it still pops up on occasion. 
I may start a emerge -e world.  I haven't done that in a while anyway
and it usually clears up weird issues that can't quite be figured out. 

Oh, I had to switch to sddm for this too.  You just change the setting
from kdm to sddm and it just works.  It looks different but it works
fine.  That may have carried over some settings.  It selected the user
and was ready for my password just like kdm did.  Again, it looks
different but it seems to work the same.  I suspect one could adjust the
settings, somewhere, and make it look like kdm if they wanted to. 

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 02:04:47 AM Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On 12/04/2016 07:38, Dale wrote:
> >> Howdy,
> >> 
> >> Well, I went and did it.  On one hand, it's sort of nice.  Seems to be
> >> faster in a way.  On the other hand, I want to wring its neck. I used to
> >> have 10 virtual desktop thingys.  I was organized like a OCD King here.
> >> Well, that seems to have left the building.  Google informed me that
> >> "activities" is the new thing.  No more virtual desktops.
> > 
> > Not true. I have 6. Add the Virtual Desktop widget to the panel
> 
> If it had one, I would.  I can't find anything related to it and I
> clicked on some things just in case it got renamed.  If it's there, I
> can't find it here.  Maybe something else needs installing or
> something.  I did figure out to add the activity thingy.  That sort of
> helps.
> 
> >> All righty
> >> then.  Then I keep getting a pop up that plasma is dying and needs to
> >> restart.  It happens quite a bit.  I think I need a fly swatter.  ROFL
> >> It seems to do that when I try to use that panel thingy at the bottom.
> > 
> > Not true. Stable here
> 
> Well, here, it does.  I've got that at least a dozen times so far.  It
> doesn't seem to be as often as it was but at first, it was every time I
> clicked on the panel thingy.  It got to the point, I logged out and back
> in again.  It seems to be getting better.
> 
> >> Also, I had a saved session that when I logged in, everything went where
> >> it was supposed to be.  After I logged in, I was ready to get to it.
> >> Well, it must have found a open window because it is gone too.  Did Bill
> >> Gates open that window???  o_O  It seems to use a LOT of memory too.  It
> >> shows I'm using 11GBs out of the 16GBs I have.  O_O
> > 
> > No. KDE is not using 11G of RAM, that is ridiculous. KDE might be in a
> > position to *address* 11G of RAM which might be used for any of a number
> > of reasons - like caching every thumbnail you ever read in the session.
> > 
> > 11G addressable out of 16G indicates that efficient use of your memory
> > is being made. What would be the point of having 16G and only ever using
> > say 1G?
> 
> I missed the decimal point.  It was 1.1 not 11.  Allergies and new
> glasses isn't helping with all this.  I did figure out how to make the
> fonts bigger.  That helps.  ;-)
> 
> >> So!!  Is there a really well written howto for this thing or something
> >> that one can read and sort of figure out where North is again?  Right
> >> now, it's sort of making me dizzy.  I need something quick but at the
> >> same time, gets me off to a start.  Linkys would be wonderful.  I found
> >> this so far.
> > 
> > It's a bit too new for proper howtos.
> 
> I noticed.  I found a video but even that doesn't match what I have now
> so I guess some things were changed since the video was made.  I think
> it was several months old.
> 
> >> https://www.linux.com/learn/how-use-kde-plasma-desktop-pro
> >> 
> >> The biggest things.  Can I have a saved session again?  Or have it save
> >> my activities or something that when I login, it starts most everything
> >> itself without me digging around and doing it manually?  That would help.
> > 
> > That part doesn't seem to work too well. I get most of my apps back at
> > restart, but on the wrong desktop, and non-kde apps are not remembered.
> > 
> > Solution: I never switch the computer off. Desktop just stays running,
> > laptops get suspended.
> 
> I did find with google that it is supposed to restore but some things
> don't work.  That seems to match what we got.  Maybe later on they will
> get it sorted.
> 
> In a way, I like it.  I just need to figure out how to set it up so that
> I can work with it.  Other than a glitch or two, it's not to bad.  The
> biggest thing, I forgot and updated Firefox and they took tab grouping
> away.  I wasn't ready for that.  I wanted to get settled in KDE5 first
> then do that.  The old Firefox was took out of the tree. Bummer.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)

Dale,

Considering the amount of changes, did you reboot the system or at least 
killed everything running at least once?

That should also help with the stability.

Also, I used the following 2 meta-packages:
kde-apps/kde-apps-meta
kde-plasma/plasma-meta

This gave me most stuff, including the configuration for virtual desktop in the 
same place (SystemSettings)

Start that, then search for "Virtual Desktops" and the only working icon is 
where you need to be.

The pager thing to select the virtual desktops appears magically then.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 12/04/2016 07:38, Dale wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Well, I went and did it.  On one hand, it's sort of nice.  Seems to be
>> faster in a way.  On the other hand, I want to wring its neck. I used to
>> have 10 virtual desktop thingys.  I was organized like a OCD King here. 
>> Well, that seems to have left the building.  Google informed me that
>> "activities" is the new thing.  No more virtual desktops.  
> Not true. I have 6. Add the Virtual Desktop widget to the panel

If it had one, I would.  I can't find anything related to it and I
clicked on some things just in case it got renamed.  If it's there, I
can't find it here.  Maybe something else needs installing or
something.  I did figure out to add the activity thingy.  That sort of
helps. 

>
>> All righty
>> then.  Then I keep getting a pop up that plasma is dying and needs to
>> restart.  It happens quite a bit.  I think I need a fly swatter.  ROFL 
>> It seems to do that when I try to use that panel thingy at the bottom.
> Not true. Stable here

Well, here, it does.  I've got that at least a dozen times so far.  It
doesn't seem to be as often as it was but at first, it was every time I
clicked on the panel thingy.  It got to the point, I logged out and back
in again.  It seems to be getting better. 

>
>> Also, I had a saved session that when I logged in, everything went where
>> it was supposed to be.  After I logged in, I was ready to get to it. 
>> Well, it must have found a open window because it is gone too.  Did Bill
>> Gates open that window???  o_O  It seems to use a LOT of memory too.  It
>> shows I'm using 11GBs out of the 16GBs I have.  O_O 
> No. KDE is not using 11G of RAM, that is ridiculous. KDE might be in a
> position to *address* 11G of RAM which might be used for any of a number
> of reasons - like caching every thumbnail you ever read in the session.
>
> 11G addressable out of 16G indicates that efficient use of your memory
> is being made. What would be the point of having 16G and only ever using
> say 1G?
>

I missed the decimal point.  It was 1.1 not 11.  Allergies and new
glasses isn't helping with all this.  I did figure out how to make the
fonts bigger.  That helps.  ;-) 


>> So!!  Is there a really well written howto for this thing or something
>> that one can read and sort of figure out where North is again?  Right
>> now, it's sort of making me dizzy.  I need something quick but at the
>> same time, gets me off to a start.  Linkys would be wonderful.  I found
>> this so far.
> It's a bit too new for proper howtos.

I noticed.  I found a video but even that doesn't match what I have now
so I guess some things were changed since the video was made.  I think
it was several months old. 

>
>> https://www.linux.com/learn/how-use-kde-plasma-desktop-pro
>>
>> The biggest things.  Can I have a saved session again?  Or have it save
>> my activities or something that when I login, it starts most everything
>> itself without me digging around and doing it manually?  That would help. 
> That part doesn't seem to work too well. I get most of my apps back at
> restart, but on the wrong desktop, and non-kde apps are not remembered.
>
> Solution: I never switch the computer off. Desktop just stays running,
> laptops get suspended.
>
>

I did find with google that it is supposed to restore but some things
don't work.  That seems to match what we got.  Maybe later on they will
get it sorted. 

In a way, I like it.  I just need to figure out how to set it up so that
I can work with it.  Other than a glitch or two, it's not to bad.  The
biggest thing, I forgot and updated Firefox and they took tab grouping
away.  I wasn't ready for that.  I wanted to get settled in KDE5 first
then do that.  The old Firefox was took out of the tree. Bummer.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and the new plasma 5 thing

[Alan McKinnon]

On 12/04/2016 07:38, Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> Well, I went and did it.  On one hand, it's sort of nice.  Seems to be
> faster in a way.  On the other hand, I want to wring its neck. I used to
> have 10 virtual desktop thingys.  I was organized like a OCD King here. 
> Well, that seems to have left the building.  Google informed me that
> "activities" is the new thing.  No more virtual desktops.  

Not true. I have 6. Add the Virtual Desktop widget to the panel

>All righty
> then.  Then I keep getting a pop up that plasma is dying and needs to
> restart.  It happens quite a bit.  I think I need a fly swatter.  ROFL 
> It seems to do that when I try to use that panel thingy at the bottom.

Not true. Stable here

> Also, I had a saved session that when I logged in, everything went where
> it was supposed to be.  After I logged in, I was ready to get to it. 
> Well, it must have found a open window because it is gone too.  Did Bill
> Gates open that window???  o_O  It seems to use a LOT of memory too.  It
> shows I'm using 11GBs out of the 16GBs I have.  O_O 

No. KDE is not using 11G of RAM, that is ridiculous. KDE might be in a
position to *address* 11G of RAM which might be used for any of a number
of reasons - like caching every thumbnail you ever read in the session.

11G addressable out of 16G indicates that efficient use of your memory
is being made. What would be the point of having 16G and only ever using
say 1G?

> So!!  Is there a really well written howto for this thing or something
> that one can read and sort of figure out where North is again?  Right
> now, it's sort of making me dizzy.  I need something quick but at the
> same time, gets me off to a start.  Linkys would be wonderful.  I found
> this so far.

It's a bit too new for proper howtos.

> https://www.linux.com/learn/how-use-kde-plasma-desktop-pro
> 
> The biggest things.  Can I have a saved session again?  Or have it save
> my activities or something that when I login, it starts most everything
> itself without me digging around and doing it manually?  That would help. 

That part doesn't seem to work too well. I get most of my apps back at
restart, but on the wrong desktop, and non-kde apps are not remembered.

Solution: I never switch the computer off. Desktop just stays running,
laptops get suspended.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com