Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
Rich Freeman wrote: > On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 1:10 AM Dale wrote: >> I'm back to my old kernel tho since my nvidia-drivers won't work with a >> kernel that high. I run into this on rare occasions. > They are only rare because you aren't updating regularly. > > If you want to run external kernel modules like nvidia-drivers or zfs, > stick to a longterm kernel. The ABI changes all the time, and so > there will frequently be stable kernel version changes that break > nvidia-drivers. Then there will be a lag before nvidia-drivers > supports the new stable kernel. In the meantime you can't run the > latest version, and that can mean security issues. > > The longterm kernels rarely break nvidia-drivers and get all the > security and other fixes. They just don't get new features. > Well, I was calling how often this has happened since around 2003 or so when I started using Linux. I think this has happened maybe two or three times. While they always say they don't support above a certain version, usually it just works. This time, not so much. I did build a 5.19 version tho. I haven't rebooted yet tho. May be a while. o_O Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 1:10 AM Dale wrote: > > I'm back to my old kernel tho since my nvidia-drivers won't work with a > kernel that high. I run into this on rare occasions. They are only rare because you aren't updating regularly. If you want to run external kernel modules like nvidia-drivers or zfs, stick to a longterm kernel. The ABI changes all the time, and so there will frequently be stable kernel version changes that break nvidia-drivers. Then there will be a lag before nvidia-drivers supports the new stable kernel. In the meantime you can't run the latest version, and that can mean security issues. The longterm kernels rarely break nvidia-drivers and get all the security and other fixes. They just don't get new features. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
Dale wrote: > Howdy, > > I been stuck on gentoo-sources 5.14.15 for a while. I tried upgrading > to I think 5.16 and then more recently 5.18. I upgraded like I always > do, copy .config over and run make oldconfig. Once I get everything in > /boot, init thingy and all, I update grub. When I get around to > rebooting, the new kernels always fail part way through booting. I > can't recall the error since I last tried a newer kernel several months > ago. > > I'm about to try to jump to version 6.0.5 which is latest in the tree. > Is there some major change that causes copying .config file from 5.14 to > 5.18 or higher to break? Do I need to configure a new kernel from > scratch in other words? While I try to answer each question the best I > can, either I'm breaking something or something else breaks preventing > updating from older versions. I just don't know which it is. Me or it. > > Thoughts? > > Thanks. > > Dale > > :-) :-) > Little update. This nvidia driver problem, see other thread, was getting on my nerve. After my weekly sync and package updates were done, I rebooted. The new kernel booted just fine. I guess the other two kernels just went bad, most likely my fault but who knows. So, upgrading from a older 5.14 kernel to a 6.0 kernel is doable. Everything booted just fine. I'm back to my old kernel tho since my nvidia-drivers won't work with a kernel that high. I run into this on rare occasions. Most of the time it works but on rare occasions, it fails. Maybe with the next nvidia update it will work. According to the info it puked on my keyboard, 5.19 or so is the latest nvidia supports. I did re-emerge the nvidia drivers for the old kernel. So far, my second screen appears to be working. When I rebooted, both screens worked without me having to reconfigure several times. I have not turned off my two TVs to be 100% sure tho. My reboot was short enough the TVs stayed powered up. I'm not sure if them powering off triggers it or not but powered off is usually where I start. If I get bored, and it warms up a little, I may build a 5.19 kernel. Thing is, by the time I get around to rebooting, nvidia may have updated and the new one I already got will work. :/ Thanks to all. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
On 11/11/22 07:25, Dale wrote: Howdy, I been stuck on gentoo-sources 5.14.15 for a while. I tried upgrading to I think 5.16 and then more recently 5.18. I upgraded like I always do, copy .config over and run make oldconfig. Once I get everything in /boot, init thingy and all, I update grub. When I get around to rebooting, the new kernels always fail part way through booting. I can't recall the error since I last tried a newer kernel several months ago. I'm about to try to jump to version 6.0.5 which is latest in the tree. Is there some major change that causes copying .config file from 5.14 to 5.18 or higher to break? Do I need to configure a new kernel from scratch in other words? While I try to answer each question the best I can, either I'm breaking something or something else breaks preventing updating from older versions. I just don't know which it is. Me or it. I've had a similar experience recently. I was using LTS (5.15) due to old, no longer supported Nvidia video card, when I switched to nouveau I tried 6.0.x but no go, either USB3 or USB2 where working, but not both. After much fiddling with .config I ended up booting the PC from USB with a recent, working binary distribution - Ubuntu 22.04 - and compared its .config with mine, and found out the problem was in one of the kernel boot parameters, not in the .config! If you find the binary distribution kernel works, lsmod will tell you which modules are actually used on your machine so you can pick just those in your config. For the .config comparison, meld works just fine. raffaele
Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
Dale, On Friday, 2022-11-11 13:18:08 -0600, you wrote: > ... > I did build a new kernel from the old config and running make > oldconfig. Perhaps you should rather use make olddefconfig It tries not to just ignore any newly introduced configuration variables but rather to provide meaningful defaults for them. Sincerely Rainer
Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
Rich Freeman wrote: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 1:25 AM Dale wrote: >> Is there some major change that causes copying .config file from 5.14 to >> 5.18 or higher to break? > So, I just upgraded to 5.15 recently and tend to stick to LTS kernels, > precisely to minimize this sort of thing. > > My guess is that you missed something in make oldconfig, but obviously > without exact errors that could be completely wrong. > > I can't speak to 6.0 specifically, but one thing that I've found is a > gotcha is when they consolidate config items under higher level ones. > So they'll take what used to be 50 questions, and turn it into 1 > question with 50 questions underneath it. The 1 question shows up as > a new config item, and if you don't appreciate what it does and answer > no to it, then you'll disable every item underneath it. > > Basically, don't assume that any new question is a new feature, and if > you say no you'll still have all the pre-existing features. It could > be a virtual question and answering no turns off a whole bunch of > things that you had previously said yes to. You need to review > oldconfig questions pretty carefully. You could try defaulting the > answers but even then the defaults aren't always reasonable. They > don't just turn on things you don't need. For example, by default > linux turns off CGROUP support, and almost everything uses that today. > That was just the first thing I checked, and I bet there are a million > other gotchas like that. > > -- > Rich > > I don't blindly answer those questions even tho it can be time consuming at times. I tend to look at a new feature as something I don't need, since I'm not adding hardware. I still look to see if it is something new that could be useful. The new features are usually marked as new so they're easy to see. What gets me, it asks for something that I've already done before and it has the option I chose before already selected but asks me anyway. That's kinda weird. When I was going through oldconfig, I noticed that when I answered yes to a new thing, files system option that I could possibly need one day, that a whole bunch of related new stuff followed behind it. It makes logical sense but it does open a can of worms for sure. I wish there was a better way to update kernels but thing is, I can't figure out a better way to do it either. I suspect if there was a better way, someone would have figured it out by now anyway. ;-) Now to reboot this thing, eventually. lol Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
hitachi303 wrote: > Am 11.11.22 um 07:25 schrieb Dale: >> I been stuck on gentoo-sources 5.14.15 for a while. I tried upgrading >> to I think 5.16 and then more recently 5.18. I upgraded like I always >> do, copy .config over and run make oldconfig. Once I get everything in >> /boot, init thingy and all, I update grub. When I get around to >> rebooting, the new kernels always fail part way through booting. I >> can't recall the error since I last tried a newer kernel several months >> ago. > > Do you follow the guide on gentoo wiki? > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Upgrade > > I don't know why but building and installing is not in this article. > For that I do follow this one (there is a link from kernel upgrade to > this on, but it is kind of hidden) > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Configuration#Build > > . > I haven't had to follow a guide in ages. I been building my own kernels for almost 20 years now. My problem is that the two updated kernels doesn't work. If it was just one version, it could just be a bad build or something. Thing is, I tried updating from a working config to two different versions and both failed. I suspect that something major changed and going from a old config file may not work. Thing is, I don't know if that is the case or not. It could be, hence the question, but it could be something else or just that I missed something and someone else knows what that something is because they ran into it earlier. I wish when they did major changes, they would also change the number scheme to reflect that. As I read in another post, sometimes even a number change in the third place can give a very different kernel, something major removed or added. Unless one reads all the posts on the kernel mailing list, one wouldn't know that change happened. I did build a new kernel from the old config and running make oldconfig. When I get around to rebooting, I'll see if it works or not. If not, I'll note the error and see if that gives any clues. Thanks. Dale :-) :-)
RE: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
> -Original Message- > From: Arve Barsnes > Sent: Friday, November 11, 2022 2:36 AM > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org > Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 at 11:30, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > I can't remember any difficulty going from the 5 series to 6.0.0 > > either, even though it was a .0 version, which we all know is generally to > > be suspected. > > Not when it comes to the linux kernel though, where major version changes are > arbitrary and comes around the x.19/20/21 switch no matter which new features > are in it. > > Regards, > Arve > > I can respect the fact that they've decided to increment it more often since the code is changing so much, but the 2.x to 3.x switch really should have been when they decided to drop support for the 80386 processor, and they deprecate and drop things more than often enough these days that they could easily tie it to that rather than having it be arbitrary, and therefore meaningless. Where it's a kernel it doesn't have to break everything for everyone to justify incrementing the major. Breaking something for somebody would be sufficient. LMP
RE: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
> > > >P. S. Bought yet another 14TB hard drive. Working on filling it up now. >While my Cooler Master HAF-932 case is large, I need more drive bays. Dang >cases are pricey right now. :/ Bought one of these for a client's custom build recently. Enough 5.25" bays to mount in two of my favorite 4-drive hotswap cages, plus then another 6 internal 3.5" bays. And the huge cooling fans don't have to spin very fast, so it's nice and quiet. Just note that it barely fits under the average desk. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811147053 LMP
Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 1:25 AM Dale wrote: > > Is there some major change that causes copying .config file from 5.14 to > 5.18 or higher to break? So, I just upgraded to 5.15 recently and tend to stick to LTS kernels, precisely to minimize this sort of thing. My guess is that you missed something in make oldconfig, but obviously without exact errors that could be completely wrong. I can't speak to 6.0 specifically, but one thing that I've found is a gotcha is when they consolidate config items under higher level ones. So they'll take what used to be 50 questions, and turn it into 1 question with 50 questions underneath it. The 1 question shows up as a new config item, and if you don't appreciate what it does and answer no to it, then you'll disable every item underneath it. Basically, don't assume that any new question is a new feature, and if you say no you'll still have all the pre-existing features. It could be a virtual question and answering no turns off a whole bunch of things that you had previously said yes to. You need to review oldconfig questions pretty carefully. You could try defaulting the answers but even then the defaults aren't always reasonable. They don't just turn on things you don't need. For example, by default linux turns off CGROUP support, and almost everything uses that today. That was just the first thing I checked, and I bet there are a million other gotchas like that. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
Am 11.11.22 um 07:25 schrieb Dale: I been stuck on gentoo-sources 5.14.15 for a while. I tried upgrading to I think 5.16 and then more recently 5.18. I upgraded like I always do, copy .config over and run make oldconfig. Once I get everything in /boot, init thingy and all, I update grub. When I get around to rebooting, the new kernels always fail part way through booting. I can't recall the error since I last tried a newer kernel several months ago. Do you follow the guide on gentoo wiki? https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Upgrade I don't know why but building and installing is not in this article. For that I do follow this one (there is a link from kernel upgrade to this on, but it is kind of hidden) https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Configuration#Build
Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
On 11/11/2022 10:35, Arve Barsnes wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 at 11:30, Peter Humphrey wrote: I can't remember any difficulty going from the 5 series to 6.0.0 either, even though it was a .0 version, which we all know is generally to be suspected. Not when it comes to the linux kernel though, where major version changes are arbitrary and comes around the x.19/20/21 switch no matter which new features are in it. It's the "fingers and toes reset" :-) Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 at 11:30, Peter Humphrey wrote: > I can't remember any difficulty going from the 5 series to 6.0.0 either, even > though it was a .0 version, which we all know is generally to be suspected. Not when it comes to the linux kernel though, where major version changes are arbitrary and comes around the x.19/20/21 switch no matter which new features are in it. Regards, Arve
Re: [gentoo-user] Upgrading from 5.14 to 6.0 version
On Friday, 11 November 2022 06:25:27 GMT Dale wrote: > Howdy, > > I been stuck on gentoo-sources 5.14.15 for a while. I tried upgrading > to I think 5.16 and then more recently 5.18. I upgraded like I always > do, copy .config over and run make oldconfig. Once I get everything in > /boot, init thingy and all, I update grub. When I get around to > rebooting, the new kernels always fail part way through booting. I > can't recall the error since I last tried a newer kernel several months > ago. > > I'm about to try to jump to version 6.0.5 which is latest in the tree. > Is there some major change that causes copying .config file from 5.14 to > 5.18 or higher to break? Do I need to configure a new kernel from > scratch in other words? While I try to answer each question the best I > can, either I'm breaking something or something else breaks preventing > updating from older versions. I just don't know which it is. Me or it. The evidence seems to point in one direction. :) One box here runs ~amd64, whose kernel has just now been upgraded to 6.0.8. I'll boot it in a few minutes, but I'm not expecting problems: it's been through the whole 6 series so far with no difficulty - even for me! I can't remember any difficulty going from the 5 series to 6.0.0 either, even though it was a .0 version, which we all know is generally to be suspected. -- Regards, Peter.
