Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On 08/08/2015 03:26 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: (snip) You really should enable logging to /var/log/rc.log and get into the habit of checking it when rebooting after a change. I always check it after booting a new kernel for instance. How do we enable logging to /var/log/rc.log ?
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015, Thanasis wrote: How do we enable logging to /var/log/rc.log ? /etc/rc.conf - rc_logger=YES and rc_log_path=/var/log/rc.log
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:30:29 +0300, Thanasis wrote: /etc/rc.conf - rc_logger=YES and rc_log_path=/var/log/rc.log I had already set that, but my /var/log/rc.log is an empty file. Are you using OpenRC or systemd? That only works with OpenRC, for systemd you need journalctl -b. -- Neil Bothwick Q: How many accountants does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: What kind of answer did you have in mind? pgpN99dgr0Jmt.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On 08/11/2015 12:35 PM, Jeremi Piotrowski wrote: On Tue, 11 Aug 2015, Thanasis wrote: How do we enable logging to /var/log/rc.log ? /etc/rc.conf - rc_logger=YES and rc_log_path=/var/log/rc.log I had already set that, but my /var/log/rc.log is an empty file.
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On 08/11/2015 01:47 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:30:29 +0300, Thanasis wrote: /etc/rc.conf - rc_logger=YES and rc_log_path=/var/log/rc.log I had already set that, but my /var/log/rc.log is an empty file. Are you using OpenRC or systemd? That only works with OpenRC, for systemd you need journalctl -b. I am using OpenRC.
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On 08/11/2015 02:00 PM, Thanasis wrote: On 08/11/2015 01:47 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:30:29 +0300, Thanasis wrote: /etc/rc.conf - rc_logger=YES and rc_log_path=/var/log/rc.log I had already set that, but my /var/log/rc.log is an empty file. Are you using OpenRC or systemd? That only works with OpenRC, for systemd you need journalctl -b. I am using OpenRC. OK, I think I found the reason: # ls -lrta /var/log/rc.log* -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5441 Jun 24 18:47 /var/log/rc.log-20150629.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5644 Jul 7 17:34 /var/log/rc.log-20150708.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1600 Jul 11 18:40 /var/log/rc.log-20150712.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6481 Jul 26 15:59 /var/log/rc.log-20150727.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 root root0 Jul 27 03:10 /var/log/rc.log # uptime -p up 2 weeks, 2 days, 1 hour, 47 minutes # last |grep boot reboot system boot 3.14.48-gentoo Sun Jul 26 15:58 still running ...snipped...
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On Saturday 08 Aug 2015 07:57:29 Felix Miata wrote: I don't get why any distro leaves this out, why anyone wouldn't like to automatically notice while booting any announcement that something failed, especially someone who has just gotten a new installation up for the first times. Why isn't --noclear set by default? It used to be the default, but a 4-5 years ago it changed. I think the devs decided to change sysvinit, probably for security reasons. Once I set this and rebooted I saw several things that needed fixing that I didn't have a clue about: 1-error loading /etc/.../hostname (I had copied it from openSUSE installation instead of following installation instruction, and without reading or saving the existing one) 2-depending on hostname working, syslog-ng fails to start 3-missing mount points As a consequence of my ineptitude (and prior to reading http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/FQDN) This is a really old archive, so anything you read there should not be taken as gospel, it may well have been deprecated. The current Gentoo wiki is at: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Main_Page I did emerge -s hostname, found a package by that name, and chose to emerge it. 30 minutes later, it and 3 dep packages were still compiling, lots lots longer than a kernel compile. :-( -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On Saturday, August 08, 2015 2:57:29 AM Felix Miata wrote: I don't get why any distro leaves this out, why anyone wouldn't like to automatically notice while booting any announcement that something failed, especially someone who has just gotten a new installation up for the first times. Why isn't --noclear set by default? Because it's your choice (and your job) to set it or not. Gentoo is not a distro per se, it' more of a set of tools to help you build your own system. In most cases it provides whatever upstream ships with only patches and fixes as needed. There's also a logging setting on rc.conf that logs the boot process. The rest of your problems where due to failure to follow the handbook. Once I set this and rebooted I saw several things that needed fixing that I didn't have a clue about: 1-error loading /etc/.../hostname (I had copied it from openSUSE installation instead of following installation instruction, and without reading or saving the existing one) 2-depending on hostname working, syslog-ng fails to start 3-missing mount points As a consequence of my ineptitude (and prior to reading http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/FQDN) I did emerge -s hostname, found a package by that name, and chose to emerge it. 30 minutes later, it and 3 dep packages were still compiling, lots lots longer than a kernel compile. :-( -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
Fernando Rodriguez composed on 2015-08-08 03:43 (UTC-0400): Felix Miata wrote: I don't get why any distro leaves this out, why anyone wouldn't like to automatically notice while booting any announcement that something failed, especially someone who has just gotten a new installation up for the first times. Why isn't --noclear set by default? Because it's your choice (and your job) to set it or not. Gentoo is not a distro per se, it' more of a set of tools to help you build your own system. In most cases it provides whatever upstream ships with only patches and fixes as needed. Understood, but there were actually two questions posed. You seem to have answered only the second. Maybe Mick's answer addresses the first. There's also a logging setting on rc.conf that logs the boot process. That's not an automatic tickler, only a log. Clearing tty1's init messages has never ever made sense to me. IOW, they get put there by default, so why not leave them there by default? If upstream's responsible for the default clearing, why did it so choose? The rest of your problems where due to failure to follow the handbook. But did I need to emerge dev-haskell/hostname, or was another hostname function already part of the base, and the haskell one something more or different from built in? -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On Saturday, August 08, 2015 4:45:06 AM Felix Miata wrote: Fernando Rodriguez composed on 2015-08-08 03:43 (UTC-0400): Felix Miata wrote: I don't get why any distro leaves this out, why anyone wouldn't like to automatically notice while booting any announcement that something failed, especially someone who has just gotten a new installation up for the first times. Why isn't --noclear set by default? Because it's your choice (and your job) to set it or not. Gentoo is not a distro per se, it' more of a set of tools to help you build your own system. In most cases it provides whatever upstream ships with only patches and fixes as needed. Understood, but there were actually two questions posed. You seem to have answered only the second. Maybe Mick's answer addresses the first. There's also a logging setting on rc.conf that logs the boot process. That's not an automatic tickler, only a log. Clearing tty1's init messages has never ever made sense to me. IOW, they get put there by default, so why not leave them there by default? If upstream's responsible for the default clearing, why did it so choose? Actually that one's provided by gentoo, point was it's just a preference, I like it the way it is. Maybe some consider it a security issue as Mick stated (I don't think it is). The rest of your problems where due to failure to follow the handbook. But did I need to emerge dev-haskell/hostname, or was another hostname function already part of the base, and the haskell one something more or different from built in? No, you just needed to set it like you did (if you followed the wiki that you posted, it's also in the handbook). I believe that file is part of openrc but it doesn't get overwritten if you reinstall the package (none of the files on /etc do). You need to run etc-update after emerging to update those files. -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On Saturday, August 08, 2015 4:55:03 AM Fernando Rodriguez wrote: On Saturday, August 08, 2015 4:45:06 AM Felix Miata wrote: Fernando Rodriguez composed on 2015-08-08 03:43 (UTC-0400): Felix Miata wrote: I don't get why any distro leaves this out, why anyone wouldn't like to automatically notice while booting any announcement that something failed, especially someone who has just gotten a new installation up for the first times. Why isn't --noclear set by default? Because it's your choice (and your job) to set it or not. Gentoo is not a distro per se, it' more of a set of tools to help you build your own system. In most cases it provides whatever upstream ships with only patches and fixes as needed. Understood, but there were actually two questions posed. You seem to have answered only the second. Maybe Mick's answer addresses the first. There's also a logging setting on rc.conf that logs the boot process. That's not an automatic tickler, only a log. Clearing tty1's init messages has never ever made sense to me. IOW, they get put there by default, so why not leave them there by default? If upstream's responsible for the default clearing, why did it so choose? Actually that one's provided by gentoo, point was it's just a preference, I like it the way it is. Maybe some consider it a security issue as Mick stated (I don't think it is). The rest of your problems where due to failure to follow the handbook. But did I need to emerge dev-haskell/hostname, or was another hostname function already part of the base, and the haskell one something more or different from built in? No, you just needed to set it like you did (if you followed the wiki that you posted, it's also in the handbook). I believe that file is part of openrc but it doesn't get overwritten if you reinstall the package (none of the files on /etc do). You need to run etc-update after emerging to update those files. To remove safely now you should run: emerge --deselect dev-haskell/hostname followed by: emerge --depclean That will remove it only if it's not needed by some other package. -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 05:13:06 -0400, Fernando Rodriguez wrote: To remove safely now you should run: emerge --deselect dev-haskell/hostname followed by: emerge --depclean That will remove it only if it's not needed by some other package. Or emerge --depclean --ask --verbose dev-haskell/hostname easier to type version emerge -cav dev-haskell/hostname -- Neil Bothwick A printer consists of three main parts: the case, the jammed paper tray and the blinking red light. pgp21oPEpE61G.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 02:57:29 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: I don't get why any distro leaves this out, why anyone wouldn't like to automatically notice while booting any announcement that something failed, especially someone who has just gotten a new installation up for the first times. Why isn't --noclear set by default? It doesn't matter, it's just a default. This is Gentoo, it works how you tell it to work. That particular setting is even mentioned n the elog output. Once I set this and rebooted I saw several things that needed fixing that I didn't have a clue about: You really should enable logging to /var/log/rc.log and get into the habit of checking it when rebooting after a change. I always check it after booting a new kernel for instance. -- Neil Bothwick Dyslexics of the world, untie! pgpIPyrXFB_DH.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On 08/08/2015 14:23, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 05:13:06 -0400, Fernando Rodriguez wrote: To remove safely now you should run: emerge --deselect dev-haskell/hostname followed by: emerge --depclean That will remove it only if it's not needed by some other package. Or emerge --depclean --ask --verbose dev-haskell/hostname easier to type version emerge -cav dev-haskell/hostname Then install eix to hugely simplify the search process that should have been done as step 1. eix hostname would have immediately shown that it is a Haskell package and unsuitable. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On 08/08/2015 14:26, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 02:57:29 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: I don't get why any distro leaves this out, why anyone wouldn't like to automatically notice while booting any announcement that something failed, especially someone who has just gotten a new installation up for the first times. Why isn't --noclear set by default? It doesn't matter, it's just a default. This is Gentoo, it works how you tell it to work. That particular setting is even mentioned n the elog output. I think Felix still has quite a bit of the SuSE/RHEL/Fedora/Ubuntu mindset. Those distros do a lot of hand-holding, a lot of trying to figure out what you mean, and take pride in delivering a full complete consistent experience (whatever that is). Gentoo has no truck with such things. The software is what it is, and if the user doesn't like what is provided, the user must change it because the dev ain't gonna. Just like Slackware come to think of it. The Gentoo approach is that the user already knows what he/she wants and knows how to get it. This is a perfectly valid approach - Gentoo users rapidly move from n00b status to a different status of having a good idea what they want. So the vast majority of Gentoo usage is done with that knowledge in place, and very little usage is done in a state of I don't yet know what I'm doing. This is what amuses me so much about efforts to make Gentoo more user-friendly - whatever that is. Our devs cater to the overwhelming majority case, and helpful guides on how to get there are at a minimum. I like this approach for the same reason I prefer Linux over Windows. Gentoo assumes I have a brain and can use it, and do not need to be treated like a clueless n00b form now till the end of time. I find that very validative and empowering, even though the prove I had to pay was 6 weeks of being mostly confused while getting up to speed. And that was 10 years ago. Once I set this and rebooted I saw several things that needed fixing that I didn't have a clue about: You really should enable logging to /var/log/rc.log and get into the habit of checking it when rebooting after a change. I always check it after booting a new kernel for instance. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
Neil Bothwick composed on 2015-08-08 18:02 (UTC+0100): On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 16:00:29 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: Yep, I find it infuriating that by default all distros seem to go to great effort to hide as much information about the boot/startup process as possible. WTF? Do they think that stuff is top secret or something? Are they afraid they'll lose their jobs if that info gets out? No, they think that the type of user they are trying to attract is likely to be scared off by all that cryptic text scrolling by. They are probably right. Gentoo doesn't hide it, it merely clears the screen once the boot has completed successfully. Clear happens so quickly the messages may as well have never been there. I get to see first maybe 4 or 5 if I don't blink at the wrong time. If the boot halts, you can see where and, usually, why it stopped. Try that with openUbundora. I'm not sure Fedostemdtering hasn't incorporated noclear for tty1 by default. I dislike Anaconda, so don't install it often, preferring to upgrade with Yum-DNF. I just booted an F23 installation that didn't clear, but I can't say that wasn't because I long ago reconfigured systemd. openSUSE has been my distro of choice since before it was born, as SuSE 8.2. Except for a period of transitioning from sysvinit to systemd[1], noclear has been always its default for *getty on tty1. To actually have all the init messages reach tty1 requires eliminating splash=silent and/or quiet from boot stanza, but that's easy rote during its installer's bootloader configuration step, and easily doable on the fly in Grub GFXboot if overlooked during installation. [1] https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=721660 -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [gentoo-user] why --noclear not set on tty1 in default /etc/inittab?
On Saturday, August 08, 2015 2:26:50 PM Alan McKinnon wrote: On 08/08/2015 14:23, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 05:13:06 -0400, Fernando Rodriguez wrote: To remove safely now you should run: emerge --deselect dev-haskell/hostname followed by: emerge --depclean That will remove it only if it's not needed by some other package. Or emerge --depclean --ask --verbose dev-haskell/hostname easier to type version emerge -cav dev-haskell/hostname Then install eix to hugely simplify the search process that should have been done as step 1. eix hostname would have immediately shown that it is a Haskell package and unsuitable. And don't forget gentoolkit, so next time you screw up a config file instead of guessing it, you can easily find out which package provides it with: equery belongs file -- Fernando Rodriguez
