Re: TANSTAAFL (was: Cross Yahoo off the list of free e-mail services!)

2002-03-25 Thread Andrew W. Gaunt

I think there are three basic categories with the following
being mostly true regarding an organzation's cash flow:


1) For Profit - Generate revenue, use profits to make stockholders happy.

2) Non profit - Generate revenue or at least break even. Profits are 
used to further
  organization's charter; there are no stockholders.

  There are a lot of very profitable non-profit 
organzations. The main
  difference between them and for profit is 
the lack of stock holders.

3) Charitable - Redistribute other peoples money per organzation's charter.

-Andrew Gaunt


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

In a message dated 3/21/2 8:50:15 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Everything has a cost.  A business, by definition, is out to make a profit.

Giving something away for free runs counter to that goal.  They must
have some plan to cover the cost of their free product or service,
and it usually involves you giving them money at some point.

Not all businesses are, by definition, out to make a profit. There are many
nonprofits (GNHLUG, for example). 
TANSTAAFL does still apply, but the profit motive, altho prevalent, is not
the only model. You come closer if you define profit as more general than 
money.

Bob Sparks
PS. Will the black helicopters come for me if GW Bush reads this?

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Re: TANSTAAFL (was: Cross Yahoo off the list of free e-mailservices!)

2002-03-25 Thread Mark Komarinski

How did we get on to this?

There's also not-for-profit, which are organizations that haven't filed
for 503(c)(? tax-exempt) status, but do not try to make a profit
year-to-year.  I think the LDP does not have tax-exempt status, but
is not-for-profit since we haven't filed the paperwork yet.  A better
example is the difference between banks and credit unions.

Banks are for profit and pay dividends to its shareholders, who may
or may not be depositors.  In the case of credit unions, the depositors
buy shares in the credit union when money is deposited, and any
profit goes out in the form of higher returns on their deposits.

-Mark

On Mon, 2002-03-25 at 08:58, Andrew W. Gaunt wrote:
 I think there are three basic categories with the following
 being mostly true regarding an organzation's cash flow:
 
 
 1) For Profit - Generate revenue, use profits to make stockholders happy.
 
 2) Non profit - Generate revenue or at least break even. Profits are 
 used to further
   organization's charter; there are no stockholders.
 
   There are a lot of very profitable non-profit 
 organzations. The main
   difference between them and for profit is 
 the lack of stock holders.
 
 3) Charitable - Redistribute other peoples money per organzation's charter.
 
 -Andrew Gaunt
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 In a message dated 3/21/2 8:50:15 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 Everything has a cost.  A business, by definition, is out to make a profit.
 
 Giving something away for free runs counter to that goal.  They must
 have some plan to cover the cost of their free product or service,
 and it usually involves you giving them money at some point.
 
 Not all businesses are, by definition, out to make a profit. There are many
 nonprofits (GNHLUG, for example). 
 TANSTAAFL does still apply, but the profit motive, altho prevalent, is not
 the only model. You come closer if you define profit as more general than 
 money.
 
 Bob Sparks
 PS. Will the black helicopters come for me if GW Bush reads this?
 
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Amusing logic

2002-03-25 Thread plussier


Found this in the Greatest Vendor Lies post on /. and thought it 
quite amusing:

Nobody will ever need more than 640K RAM! -- Bill Gates, 1981
Windows 95 needs at least 8 MB RAM. -- Bill Gates, 1996
Nobody will ever need Windows 95. -- logical conclusion
-- 

Seeya,
Paul



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Re: TANSTAAFL (was: Cross Yahoo off the list of free e-mail services!)

2002-03-25 Thread Benjamin Scott

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, at 8:58am, Andrew W. Gaunt wrote:
 I think there are three basic categories with the following being mostly
 true regarding an organzation's cash flow:

  Could we move this discussion to alt.pointless.semantics please?  ;-)

-- 
Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Giveaway time for new users

2002-03-25 Thread Mark Komarinski

I have the author copies for my newly released Red Hat Linux
Interactive Training Guide CD-ROM.  Works on Windows and Linux,
plenty of video, audio, and screen video of me yapping away
about Red Hat Linux.  There's exam questions at the end of
each course to see how well you did, and there's a total of
14 courses covering everything from installation to X to general
server-and-desktop type stuff.

I've got 2 I'll give away to GNHLUG members with the following
conditions (requests):

1) Newbies preferred.  You experienced guys will rip my stuff to
shreds, and I can't take that kind of criticism ;) but if you
have newbie friends you think this would be good for, I'll allow it.

2) Feedback to me would be nice.  Knowing where I did good and bad
is always a good thing.

3) I'd like it if you would post (an honest!) review to one or more
of the main online book sellers (amazon, fatbrain, BN, etc).

Note that this does *NOT* come with a copy of Red Hat Linux.  You
have to get that yourself (separate rant about Red Hat legal omitted).

If you want one of the copies, drop me a note and I'll pick two names
at random (I'll write a perl script to do it) and let the winners
know so I can get their address, then drop them in the mail.

-Mark




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Re: Giveaway time for new users

2002-03-25 Thread jbd

Before you give both of them away, I don't suppose you could give a 
demo/reading at one of our meetings?

--Bruce

Quoting Mark Komarinski [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 I have the author copies for my newly released Red Hat Linux
 Interactive Training Guide CD-ROM.  Works on Windows and Linux,
 plenty of video, audio, and screen video of me yapping away
 about Red Hat Linux.  There's exam questions at the end of
 each course to see how well you did, and there's a total of
 14 courses covering everything from installation to X to general
 server-and-desktop type stuff.
 
 I've got 2 I'll give away to GNHLUG members with the following
 conditions (requests):
 
 1) Newbies preferred.  You experienced guys will rip my stuff to
 shreds, and I can't take that kind of criticism ;) but if you
 have newbie friends you think this would be good for, I'll allow it.
 
 2) Feedback to me would be nice.  Knowing where I did good and bad
 is always a good thing.
 
 3) I'd like it if you would post (an honest!) review to one or more
 of the main online book sellers (amazon, fatbrain, BN, etc).
 
 Note that this does *NOT* come with a copy of Red Hat Linux.  You
 have to get that yourself (separate rant about Red Hat legal omitted).
 
 If you want one of the copies, drop me a note and I'll pick two names
 at random (I'll write a perl script to do it) and let the winners
 know so I can get their address, then drop them in the mail.
 
 -Mark
 
 
 
 
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Re: Giveaway time for new users

2002-03-25 Thread Mark Komarinski

I have enough copies to do this at an upcoming meeting.

Book contracts aren't as nasty as music contracts ;)

-Mark

On Mon, 2002-03-25 at 11:49, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Before you give both of them away, I don't suppose you could give a 
 demo/reading at one of our meetings?
 
 --Bruce
 
 Quoting Mark Komarinski [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
  I have the author copies for my newly released Red Hat Linux
  Interactive Training Guide CD-ROM.  Works on Windows and Linux,
  plenty of video, audio, and screen video of me yapping away
  about Red Hat Linux.  There's exam questions at the end of
  each course to see how well you did, and there's a total of
  14 courses covering everything from installation to X to general
  server-and-desktop type stuff.
  
  I've got 2 I'll give away to GNHLUG members with the following
  conditions (requests):
  
  1) Newbies preferred.  You experienced guys will rip my stuff to
  shreds, and I can't take that kind of criticism ;) but if you
  have newbie friends you think this would be good for, I'll allow it.
  
  2) Feedback to me would be nice.  Knowing where I did good and bad
  is always a good thing.
  
  3) I'd like it if you would post (an honest!) review to one or more
  of the main online book sellers (amazon, fatbrain, BN, etc).
  
  Note that this does *NOT* come with a copy of Red Hat Linux.  You
  have to get that yourself (separate rant about Red Hat legal omitted).
  
  If you want one of the copies, drop me a note and I'll pick two names
  at random (I'll write a perl script to do it) and let the winners
  know so I can get their address, then drop them in the mail.
  
  -Mark
  
  
  
  
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Linux Executive Accuses Microsoft

2002-03-25 Thread Bayard Coolidge USG


Well, only reason I'm really pointing this out is that it hit the
headlines on Yahoo! News - in the general section, not just Tech News!

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=514u=/ap/20020325/ap_on_hi_te/microsoft_antitrust_233

As always, this is strictly my view on it, and does not in any way,
shape or form necessarily reflect the views of my employer...

Bayard

---
Bayard R. Coolidge  N1HODISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed are
Compaq Computer Corp.   solely those of the author, and not
Nashua, New Hampshire, USA  those of Compaq Computer Corporation
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (DEC '77-'98)  or any other entity.
Brake for Moose - It could save your life - N.H. Fish  Game Dept.
-BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
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GCS/CC d+ s:+ a++ C+++$ UO++$L++$ P L++$ E-@ W+ N++ o- K? w--- O? M?
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Re: Linux Executive Accuses Microsoft

2002-03-25 Thread Michael Costolo

From the article:
The nine states have offered several new examples of alleged predatory behavior by
Microsoft

Alleged predatory behavior?  We should hold a contest to see who can come up with
the most quotes from Gates, Ballmer, etc. about predatory Microsoft business
strategies.

-Mike-

--- Bayard Coolidge USG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Well, only reason I'm really pointing this out is that it hit the
 headlines on Yahoo! News - in the general section, not just Tech News!
 
 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/
 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=514u=/ap/20020325/ap_on_hi_te/microsoft_antitrust_233
 
 As always, this is strictly my view on it, and does not in any way,
 shape or form necessarily reflect the views of my employer...
 
 Bayard
 
 ---
 Bayard R. CoolidgeN1HODISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed are
 Compaq Computer Corp. solely those of the author, and not
 Nashua, New Hampshire, USAthose of Compaq Computer Corporation
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (DEC '77-'98)  or any other entity.
 Brake for Moose - It could save your life - N.H. Fish  Game Dept.
 -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
 Version: 3.12
 GCS/CC d+ s:+ a++ C+++$ UO++$L++$ P L++$ E-@ W+ N++ o- K? w--- O? M?
 V-- PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP- t++ 5? X? R* tv b++ DI+++ D? G e++ h-- r++ y? UF++
 -END GEEK CODE BLOCK-
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__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/

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Your Red Hat course

2002-03-25 Thread Paul Courchene

Hello

I saw your GNHLUG Post on a RH course Video,
and am interested in 
1.) obtaining a copy  or
2.) being eligible to obtain a copy by lottery.

I teach a Core Computer Science course at Rivier College,
in Operating Systems and have spent much time talking Linux to
newbies there.

During the regular O.S. course through out the Semester
we do as Homework, different projects using 
some dual boot NT - Linux machines.
We have introduced many students to Linux
through this process.

One copy will save me hours of Chalk Talk.

Thanks

paulc


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Installation Advice

2002-03-25 Thread Greg Kettmann

I'm going to install a dual boot drive in my IBM Thinkpad T21.  I'll be
starting from a fresh drive.  I expect to be using Microsoft XP and
probably Red Hat 7.2.

I assumed I'd install RH 7.2 and LILO first, that way I can keep below
the cylinder limit.

I assume that XP will not play nice and will try to remove the boot
record but I was installing it second, probably on FAT32 to allow
sharing of files.

Any practical advice (as in I've done that, watch out for... or You
can't do...) would be appreciated.  I've more reading to do but there
is nothing more valuable than practical advice from someone who's done
it before.

Thanks, GGK


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RE: Installation Advice

2002-03-25 Thread Mansur, Warren

 I assumed I'd install RH 7.2 and LILO first, that way I can keep below
 the cylinder limit.
 
 I assume that XP will not play nice and will try to remove the boot
 record but I was installing it second, probably on FAT32 to allow
 sharing of files.

If you want LILO or GRUB to be the program that boots both Linux and windows, it's 
better to install windows first and then Linux.  Then, you can easily set up LILO or 
grub to boot the windows.  windows does wipe out the boot record and put its own 
stuff.  If you want LILO to be the controller after installing windows second, it's a 
pain because you can't easily boot Linux to run lilo and let it become the 
controller.

I installed past the 1024 cylinder limit before, and discovered the -L option to 
lilo.  So, instead of typing lilo, just type lilo -L and that will solve the 1024 
cylinder problem in most cases.

Also, while partitioning, simply leave a 20MB block of unused space at the beginning 
of the drive.  Then, when you install linux, you can format that as the /boot 
mountpoint.  You won't need to worry about the 1024 cylinder limit then because it's 
at the beginning of the drive.

Opinion: Definitely don't let Redhat autoconfigure your disk partitioning.  I did 
and it gave me only a 64MB swap.  I have 512 MB of RAM and it's used as a server, so I 
wanted at least 512 MB swap, but it just gave me 64 MB which is really dumb IMHO.

Regards,

Warren

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Re: Installation Advice

2002-03-25 Thread David Roberts

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Greg Kettmann stated in their Email:

Greg From: Greg Kettmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Greg To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Greg Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:48:27 -0500
Greg Subject: Installation Advice
Greg
Greg I'm going to install a dual boot drive in my IBM Thinkpad T21.
Greg I'll be starting from a fresh drive.  I expect to be using
Greg Microsoft XP and probably Red Hat 7.2.
Greg
Greg I assumed I'd install RH 7.2 and LILO first, that way I can keep
Greg below the cylinder limit.
Greg
Greg I assume that XP will not play nice and will try to remove the
Greg boot record but I was installing it second, probably on FAT32 to
Greg allow sharing of files.

humor type=dry
  Are you sure XP's license agreement allows you to do this...?  We
  had a discussion around here last week about how merely using VNC on
  a system (even another flavor of M$) to access a M$-XP box would
  violate the XP licensing agreement.  Maybe M$ put in a clause to
  make it illegal to install another OS on the same hardware...  ;)
/humor

Greg
Greg Any practical advice (as in I've done that, watch out for...
Greg or You can't do...) would be appreciated.  I've more reading
Greg to do but there is nothing more valuable than practical advice
Greg from someone who's done it before.

Actually, I would be interested in any comments you may have when
you complete it as I may be trying something similar soon myself.

Greg
Greg Thanks, GGK
Greg
Greg
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Greg *
Greg

-- 
Linux: Because a PC is a terrible thing to waste. -- As seen on the 'net



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Re: Installation Advice

2002-03-25 Thread Benjamin Scott

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, at 1:48pm, Greg Kettmann wrote:
 I assumed I'd install RH 7.2 and LILO first ...

  I recommend installing Microsoft OSes first.  Not only are Microsoft's
installers anti-social in that they tend to assume they can do whatever they
want to a system, I have found they sometimes crash completely if they even
*see* another OS on the system.  (This applies even to older MS OSes which
encounter newer versions of MS OSes, BTW -- i.e., it isn't malice, just
incredibly bad programming.)

 ... that way I can keep below the cylinder limit.

  I *think* Red Hat Linux 7.2's LILO includes the lba32 feature, which
eliminates the INT13 1024-cylinder limit.

  If you want to play safe anyway, just leave some unpartitioned space below
the cylinder 1023 when you do the Windows install, and tell Red Hat's
installer to use that space as the boot partition.

 I assume that XP will not play nice and will try to remove the boot record
 ...

  In general, I recommend avoiding the feature of LILO which lets you
install it in the MBR.  That behavior is completely non-standard, and anyone
using it should expect to get burned.  The MBR is not supposed to contain an
OS-specific boot loader.  Linux is broken here.

  Install LILO into the boot sector of your boot partition, the way the PC
was intended to work.  If you need more advanced boot capabilities (such as
menu-driven boot-time OS selection), use a more advanced boot loader.  GRUB
consistantly gets recommendations, and is GPL.

-- 
Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Re: Installation Advice

2002-03-25 Thread Larry Cook

Greg,

 I'm going to install a dual boot drive in my IBM Thinkpad T21.  I'll be
 starting from a fresh drive.  I expect to be using Microsoft XP and
 probably Red Hat 7.2.

I use Grub to dual boot RedHat 7.1 and Win95.

 I assumed I'd install RH 7.2 and LILO first, that way I can keep below
 the cylinder limit.

I installed Win95 first, then Grub, then RH 7.1.  This was on a 3.2G drive
with Win95 using a 1G partition.  Once I set my BIOS to use LBA for the drive,
Grub worked fine.  I believe that both Grub and Lilo have overcome the
cylinder limit problem.

If you read the Grub (or Lilo) manual and all the HOWTOs you can find on
multi-booting with Grub (or Lilo), you'll probably find an example similiar to
your scenario.

Larry


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gpg plugin for Mozilla

2002-03-25 Thread Derek D. Martin

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Werner Koch posted this on the GPG users mailing list recently:

From: R. Saravanan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:50:51 -0700
  
  Enigmail, a GnuPG plugin for Mozilla which has been under
  development for some time, has now reached a state of practical
  usability with the Mozilla 0.9.9 release. It allows you to send or
  receive encrypted mail using the Mozilla mailer and GPG. Enigmail is
  open source and dually licensed under GPL/MPL. You can download and
  install the software from the website http://enigmail.mozdev.org
  
  Enigmail is cross-platform like Mozilla, although binaries are
  supplied only for the Win32 and Linux-x86 platforms on the website.At
  the moment there is no version of Enigmail available for Netscape 6.2
  or earlier, which are based on much older versions of Mozilla.There
  will be a version available for the next Netscape release, which is
  expected to be based on Mozilla 1.0.
  
  You may post enigmail-specific comments to the Enigmail
  newsgroup/mailing list at mozdev.org

I've messed with the plugin (but not extensively), and so far I like
it a lot.  It seems to do the right thing with various methods of
GPG.  I haven't yet tested sending mail so I'm not sure if it sends
PGP-MIME or ascii-armored mail by default...

If it does the latter, I think I'll like it well enough to switch back
to using Mozilla for e-mail.  But we shall see.

Oh also, for those who care, I noticed that Macromedia has released v5
of their Flash Player (still no shockwave) for Linux.  It works fine
with Mozilla, but you need to install it in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
(as opposed to /usr/lib/netscape/plugins, which will work for many
plugins on Mozilla).  They still seem to be staying a version behind
the Windows/Mac version though, which is now at version 6.

The good news (if anything related to using Windows can be considered
good news) is the latest Windows versions of Flash and Shockwave
support Mozilla specifically (i.e. they find it and ask you if you
want to install flash/shockwave for it).

- -- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8n5nYdjdlQoHP510RAup0AJ0aNlxz2JfQY7k3OG4UzEQzuTKCPwCfS8yA
HzrtPzfJt/bqFg4+5YOe/yI=
=tZ5G
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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behavior of find /

2002-03-25 Thread Tom Rauschenbach



This has been puzzling me for weeks.  If (as root) I type
find / -print |grep somefilename
sometimes it takes many minutes, sometimes it completes in seconds and 
sometimes I get a new shell prompt but I can hear the disk grinding away for 
many seconds after the command seems to have completed.  What gives ?
Does Linux really maintain a huge cache of the disk directory heirarchy ?   I 
can think of no other explanation, but I'm not sure that I think this is a 
good use of resources.  Does anyone know ?

 

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Re: behavior of find /

2002-03-25 Thread Benjamin Scott

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, at 7:52pm, Tom Rauschenbach wrote:
 This has been puzzling me for weeks.  If (as root) I type
 find / -print |grep somefilename
 sometimes it takes many minutes, sometimes it completes in seconds ...

  Sometimes the system has to walk the directory tree on disk, sometimes
everything is already in cache/buffer memory.

 ... and sometimes I get a new shell prompt but I can hear the disk
 grinding away for many seconds after the command seems to have completed.

  Many filesystems maintain a notation of the last access time of a
filesystem object.  Under Unix/Linux, this is called the atime.  
Directories are generally considered filesystem objects.  So, when you walk
the directory tree, you touch the atime of every directory.  All of those
updated atime fields then need to be written out to disk.  This results in
the behavior you are seeing.

  If you want, you can disable the atime updates.  Mount the filesystem with
the noatime option.

 Does Linux really maintain a huge cache of the disk directory heirarchy ?

  Linux maintains a disk cache at the block level.  If the most-recently
accessed blocks contain directories, then directories will be cached.  So if
you are doing directory-intensive work, directories will be cached;  
otherwise, they will not.  This is a Good Thing.  :)

-- 
Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |





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RE: behavior of find /

2002-03-25 Thread Mansur, Warren

  Many filesystems maintain a notation of the last access time of a
filesystem object.  Under Unix/Linux, this is called the atime.  
Directories are generally considered filesystem objects.  So, 
when you walk
the directory tree, you touch the atime of every directory.  
All of those
updated atime fields then need to be written out to disk.  
This results in
the behavior you are seeing.

  If you want, you can disable the atime updates.  Mount the 
filesystem with
the noatime option.

If we disable the last access time on the machine, will it mess up any applications?  
I always thought the atime was kind of useless but I don't know if some applications 
use it in an esoteric way.

Regards,

Warren

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RE: behavior of find /

2002-03-25 Thread Benjamin Scott

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, at 8:46pm, Mansur, Warren wrote:
 If we disable the last access time on the machine, will it mess up any
 applications?

  Only those that use it.

-- 
Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
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Reminder: Kuhn from the Free Software Foundation comes to UNH.

2002-03-25 Thread Scott Garman

Hi all,

This is just a quick reminder that Tuesday, 3/26, Bradley Kuhn from the
Free Software Foundation will be giving a presentation at UNH about the
history of the GNU project and the philosophy of the free software
movement. Bradley will be hanging out for some time after the talk to
meet with people, so please feel free to drop by anytime:

Schedule, March 26:

12:30-2:00 PM: Bradley gives talk on GNU in Kingsbury Hall, Room M227.

2:00-4:00 PM: We go someplace downtown for lunch (most likely the Tin
Palace) with more informal QA. 

4:00-5:00 PM: We'll be heading back to Kingsbury Room M227 in case
faculty or anyone else wants to meet with him who couldn't make the
lunchtime meeting. 

Thanks,

Scott

-- 
Scott A. Garman Unix System Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]UNH Nuclear Physics Group


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