Re: automated installation
In a message dated: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:09:11 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: The early iterations of Red Hat's anaconda install did have some serious bugs in them. Let's re-write that as: The iterations of Red Hat have some serious bugs in them. It's more efficient and more accurate :) It usually takes Red Hat two or three tries to get something right, but they usually do get it right, eventually. ;-) I'd say they usually, after 2 or 3 tries get it *mostly* right. I have yet to see them release anything that didn't have at least one major problem which resulted in Derek bitching quite vocally to me about it. Or vice versa for that matter :) For an amusing chuckle, check out RH's bug reports searching on Derek as the submitter. He has a way with words :) https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?email1=ddm%40emailreporter1=1email2=changedin=chfieldfrom=chfieldto=Nowchfieldvalue=short_desc=long_desc=bug_file_loc=status_whiteboard=cmdtype=doitorder=Bug+Number+Ascendingform_name=query After looking at this list of bugs, it appears I was mistaken, he's only reported bugs on versions 6.2, 7.1, and 7.2. I assume he considered it a waste of time to bother reporting bugs on 7.0 :) -- Seeya, Paul * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
vanished Gnome taskbar
A coworker (working remotely) asked this of the office staff this morning and we came up empty, so maybe the GNHLUG can offer a clue: I have been fighting with this all morning so I am now looking to see if anyone has the answer. When I logged in this A.M. my taskbar and pager in my panel window had disappeared. If I minimize a window it vanishes and I can not open it again by clicking on what used to be its minimized icon. The workspaces that are normally in the pager do exist because I can move to them with 'shift-meta-arrow' or via mousing on the desktop, but I cannot see the workspace (pager) icons. Any gnome users out there with ideas? I looked on the gnome FAQ and have not located the answer to my question. If he were using CTWM I'd suggest he toggle the hide Workspace Manager thingy, but I don't know what the equivalent Gnome thingy is... Is Gnome known to be prone to random failures of this sort, or is this more likely pilot error? TIA * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: vanished Gnome taskbar
My Ximian laptop (RH 7.2) loses it the first time I log in after a reboot. I kill X, then restart and it pops up fine and never have a problem again. -Mark On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 10:01:45AM -0400, Michael O'Donnell wrote: A coworker (working remotely) asked this of the office staff this morning and we came up empty, so maybe the GNHLUG can offer a clue: I have been fighting with this all morning so I am now looking to see if anyone has the answer. When I logged in this A.M. my taskbar and pager in my panel window had disappeared. If I minimize a window it vanishes and I can not open it again by clicking on what used to be its minimized icon. The workspaces that are normally in the pager do exist because I can move to them with 'shift-meta-arrow' or via mousing on the desktop, but I cannot see the workspace (pager) icons. Any gnome users out there with ideas? I looked on the gnome FAQ and have not located the answer to my question. If he were using CTWM I'd suggest he toggle the hide Workspace Manager thingy, but I don't know what the equivalent Gnome thingy is... Is Gnome known to be prone to random failures of this sort, or is this more likely pilot error? TIA * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. * * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: vanished Gnome taskbar
In a message dated: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:01:45 EDT Michael O'Donnell said: Is Gnome known to be prone to random failures of this sort, or is this more likely pilot error? Yes. :) 2 things to try: 1. Bring up the GNOME Control panel, and toggle the options pertaining to whatever is missing, and restart GNOME. 2. Log out, log in via one of the v-terminals, mv ~/.gnome elsewhere (like ~/.gnome-old) log back in via GDM and re-customize. You can probably carry over most of the files from the ~/.gnome-old directory to the new ~/.gnome hierarchy. One third recommendation: Use something simple and stable like fvwm :) -- Seeya, Paul * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 09:58:35AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:09:11 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: The early iterations of Red Hat's anaconda install did have some serious bugs in them. Let's re-write that as: The iterations of Red Hat have some serious bugs in them. It's more efficient and more accurate :) Now now It usually takes Red Hat two or three tries to get something right, but they usually do get it right, eventually. ;-) I'd say they usually, after 2 or 3 tries get it *mostly* right. I have yet to see them release anything that didn't have at least one major problem which resulted in Derek bitching quite vocally to me about it. Or vice versa for that matter :) For an amusing chuckle, check out RH's bug reports searching on Derek as the submitter. He has a way with words :) I could counter with the bugs I've submitted to Debian for resolving and how well those went (not to mention the number of e-mails/IRC chats with Wichert trying to figure out WTF broke while installing soemthing), but I'm above that. ;) Distros have their problems, no doubt about it. It's fortunate we can have this discussion at all as compared to Windows users. It's also fortunate that we can find our own ways around some of the problems that also happen to be distro-agnostic (SI instead of kickstart for example). -Mark * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: vanished Gnome taskbar
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, at 10:01am, Michael O'Donnell wrote: Is Gnome known to be prone to random failures of this sort, or is this more likely pilot error? I have seen the GNOME panel crash plenty of times, but it normally restarts automatically, and all the applets reappear with little or no lost state. When I ogged in this A.M. my taskbar and pager in my panel indow had disappeared. If I minimize a window it anishes and I can not open it again by clicking on hat used to be its minimized icon. Quick fix: From a shell prompt, issue the command panel (without the quotes, of course). Problem analysis: What distro and release is he using? What window manager? Check the setting for the GNOME session state, which are controlled by various capplets under GNOME Menu - Programs - Settings - Session. The panel program should be listed, with Style of Respawn. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, at 10:26am, Mark Komarinski wrote: Distros have their problems, no doubt about it. It's fortunate we can have this discussion at all as compared to Windows users. It's also fortunate that we can find our own ways around some of the problems that also happen to be distro-agnostic (SI instead of kickstart for example). Well said! -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: vanished Gnome taskbar
Problem apparently solved - thanks to all. The user's (somewhat unclear) summary of the fix: When you right click on the panel you can navigate down to where you add applets. These things are applets but the problem was I was reading the RedHat manuals and they call these applets different names. The gnome manual used different terms leading me to add the correct applets to the panel. I have no idea why they were missing. * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
RE: Formal trainning...
I am sorry for not been too specific. What were are looking for is something like performance tuning on linux, kernel, and/or apache. We are not looking for something basic on sys admin type of classes. Thanks for the input. Vasilios Georgitsis [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 15:15 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Formal trainning... What exactly do you want training in? Basic sysadmin, using Linux, installation, migration from Windows, using certain software packages under Linux? What are you attempting to do? There are a lot of different areas of UNIX/Linux that you can receive training for. Seeya, Paul * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
In a message dated: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:33:00 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I have seen Derek's Red Hat bug reports before. He is often rude, abusive, and/or insulting, none of which are productive. You might find that sort of thing funny, but frankly, I think he does himself, Red Hat, and the community a disservice by acting that way. It is one thing to bitch and moan on a independent mailing list (like this one) or around the local bar. It is quite another to act that way in what is intended to be a bug reporting tool. I don't disagree with any of that, I was merely stating that it's an amusing read. Also, of the six bugs turned up by that URL you posted, four are either user error, local configuration, and/or Just because Red Hat does not do things the way Derek Martin expects does not mean it is a bug. (The other two are quite legitimate, long-standing problems. Red Hat is *far* from perfect.) Which ones are you referring to? In the RH does not do things the way Derek expects them to be category, I'd re-word that as RH does not do things the way most sysadmins expect things to be. Most of those gripes are a matter of RH not having experience sysadmins doing QA for them. Compare Derek's complaints to what I would consider standard sysadmin practices as espoused by Evi Nemeth, et al, in the UNIX/Linux System Administrator's Handbook series. RH violates these basic practices with their configurations many times. -- Seeya, Paul It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
In a message dated: 24 Jul 2002 10:49:57 EDT Kenneth E. Lussier said: Do we really need to re-hash this *AGAIN*??? But the horse is still twitching! It's not quite dead yet! ;) -- Seeya, Paul It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
Do we really need to re-hash this *AGAIN*??? But the horse is still twitching! It's not quite dead yet! ;) You're such losers - anybody can see that the vi-versus-emacs flamewar is by FAR superior to the Linux-distro one... (Heh. I was just wondering if it's possible for me to start a meta-flamewar... ;-) * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Wed, 2002-07-24 at 11:06, Michael O'Donnell wrote: You're such losers - anybody can see that the vi-versus-emacs flamewar is by FAR superior to the Linux-distro one... I'm not a big fan of the 5 editor. And eMacs, well, isn't that Apple's version of a networked toilet-seat looking laptop?? ;-) C-Ya, Kenny -- Tact is just *not* saying true stuff -- Cordelia Chase Kenneth E. Lussier Sr. Systems Administrator Zuken, USA PGP KeyID CB254DD0 http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xCB254DD0 * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 11:19:13AM -0400, Kenneth E. Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2002-07-24 at 11:06, Michael O'Donnell wrote: You're such losers - anybody can see that the vi-versus-emacs flamewar is by FAR superior to the Linux-distro one... I'm not a big fan of the 5 editor. And eMacs, well, isn't that Apple's version of a networked toilet-seat looking laptop?? ;-) Actually, vi would be 6 (so says me, Robert John Bell IV). Now vim, OTOH, well, I'm not sure that's legitimate Roman numerals, but if I had to treat it as such, I suppose I'd call it 994 (that's 0x3E2, 01742, or 100010 for those of you who have been behind a keyboard too long). And yes, there really was no point to this email... -- Bob BellHewlett-Packard Company Software Engineer 110 Spit Brook Rd - ZKO3-3/U14 TruCluster GroupNashua, NH 03062-2698 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 603-884-0595 * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Wednesday, July 24, 2002, at 10:49 AM, Kenneth E. Lussier wrote: OK, before the My distro is better than yours starts again, I can save everyone the trouble: A bunch of people like Debian because it's more stable, apt-get is better than RPM, and it's very hands-on. A bunch of people like Red Hat because RPM is better than apt-get, and it's easier to install, and has simple management. A bunch of people like SuSE because it comes with everything under the sun, and has a good install and management system. A bunch of people like Mandrake because it's more desktop-friendly. Do we really need to re-hash this *AGAIN*??? Don't forget Slack!! There are still some people who like Slackware because Linux is fun. Erik * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Wed, 2002-07-24 at 10:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Most of those gripes are a matter of RH not having experience sysadmins doing QA for them. Um, EXCUSE ME, but I'm an experienced sysadmin and *I* do QA for them. I'm on the beta team. And I know *many* who do testing who are quite experienced sysadmins as well. However, I concede, that I can't test everything. Compare Derek's complaints to what I would consider standard sysadmin practices as espoused by Evi Nemeth, et al, in the UNIX/Linux System Administrator's Handbook series. RH violates these basic practices with their configurations many times. *sigh* I see the horse *is* still twitching. At first glance, and knowing Red Hat's distribution quite well, I'd have to disagree. However, I will now go read Derek's supposedly entertaining bug reports for a more accurate understanding of what you are saying. -- -Paul Iadonisi Senior System Administrator Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist Ever see a penguin fly? -- Try Linux. GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
Michael, I'm not sure what your software is/or does, so this comment might be totally off the wall, but have you considered using the web to 'distribute' your application? If you are building software that accesses a centralized store of information and it can be done within the relatively simple confines of a browser based interface, then you don't really have to worry about distributing your application at all. Changes can be done on the server side and all clients (browsers) connecting in immediately see all new changes... Of course if you are building the new Photoshop or something then this makes no sense. :) Rich Michael O'Donnell wrote: I'm looking for an automated software installation mechanism - I want to be able to deliver software to my customers in such a way that they can install it on multiple machines as painlessly as possible. For example, one scheme I've heard of (but have been unable to find at scyld.com or anywhere else) was reportedly developed by the Scyld Beowolf folks and it sounded very interesting - you could supposedly insert a Scyld CD into each one of a bunch of machines on your net, boot each machine from its CD, designate one machine as Master, and they'd all then cooperatively initialize themselves, install the software onto their local disks and start cranking as a Beowolf cluster. Although I'm not working with Beowolf I am involved with clustered systems so such a scheme sounds like it might be of interest - can anybody supply any details, or recommend any other approach to automated, net-based, multi-system installation? * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. * begin:vcard n:;Richard x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;; version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] fn:Richard Soule end:vcard
Re: automated installation
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, at 10:55am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't disagree with any of that, I was merely stating that it's an amusing read. You forget there is a real person on the other end of it. I have been the object of that kind of abuse too many times to find it amusing. :-( Which ones are you referring to? In the RH does not do things the way Derek expects them to be category, I'd re-word that as RH does not do things the way most sysadmins expect things to be. I would answer that question, but I suspect the discussion would quickly turn into a pointless argument over design decisions. Do we really need to re-invent the whole BSD-vs-SysV war with new players? ... espoused by Evi Nemeth, et al, in the UNIX/Linux System Administrator's Handbook series. RH violates these basic practices with their configurations many times. Heh. My take on the same thing was that USAH didn't get many things about Linux and GNU. :-) The biggest being: GNU's Not Unix. There are times where Red Hat (and others) have decided not to perpetuate certain braindamages from traditional Unix. I, for one, am thankful for that in many cases. Yes, it sometimes causes older software to break. The answer is to fix the software. A good example is the whole /var/spool/mail thing. Historical Unix made that directory world writable with the sticky bit set. The major reason for that was locking -- programs created lock files in that directory to reserve write access to a mailbox. Of course, it is also a rather big security exposure, especially on a large, multi-user system. Red Hat went to the trouble of making sure all the mail programs on their system use kernel-level locking (flock/fcntl), eliminating the need for that long-standing braindamage. And I say: Good! Just because Unix has been stupid about this for twenty years does not mean we should continue to be stupid about it. World writable directories are bad idea, and many (myself included) consider Unix's dependence on them a design flaw. Sorry if that rains on your parade, but as the Perl folks say, TIMTOWTDI. Nobody is forcing you to use Red Hat. I am sure there is a Linux distribution out there designed to emulate crufty old Unix as closely as possible. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, at 10:59am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The iterations of Linux distros have some major bugs in them. It's more accurate, and much more general :) Might as well be completely honest: The various iterations of most software have some major bugs in them. Or, to use my preferred quote: If builders designed buildings the way programmers write programs, the first wood pecker to come along would have destroyed civilization. -- Gerald Weinberg However, as you point out, at least with Linux, not only can be do something about it, but we can expect a fix within a reasonable amount of time ... I say that a lot. It is not that Linux is perfect. Heck, even typing that makes me laugh! No, the advantage Linux has is that one can find and fix the problems a heck of a lot quicker and easier on Linux than on a commercial OS. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Playing DVDs on Linux
Hello all, We now interrupt our regularly scheduled flaming to bring you the following on-topic post. ;-) I have, until now, been avoiding having anything to do with DVDs, due to the issues surrounding their use. (I was afraid I would be arrested for turning it on or something.) However, having watched it become the fastest growing consumer electronics product in history, and having watched DVDs take over the home movie industry, I have conceded defeat in this matter. So, I now have a DVD reader in my computer. It does a fine job reading audio and data CDs, but I had that before. I would like to be able to play movies, too. What, if anything, do people use to watch DVDs on Linux? Open Source software? Commercial software? What experiences -- good or bad -- have people had? Opinions? Gotchas? I basically know nothing about DVD technology, and I am hoping for some intelligent feedback from the many fine minds on this list before I hit Google. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, at 10:55am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... espoused by Evi Nemeth, et al, in the UNIX/Linux System
Administrator's Handbook series. RH violates these basic practices with
their configurations many times.
Heh. My take on the same thing was that USAH didn't get many things
about Linux and GNU. :-) The biggest being: GNU's Not Unix. There are
times where Red Hat (and others) have decided not to perpetuate certain
braindamages from traditional Unix. I, for one, am thankful for that in
many cases. Yes, it sometimes causes older software to break. The answer
is to fix the software.
Ever read The Unix Hater's Handbook? It's got some very good points
about the flaws in Unix. I think it's pre-Linux and many of the things
it complains about had been fixed by the time I read it ('92). Some of
the things have been fixed but the old versions are still distributed by
the Unix vendors.
--
---
Tom Buskey
*
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with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body.
*
Re: Playing DVDs on Linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Hello all, stuff about legal issues with DVDs deleted :-) So, I now have a DVD reader in my computer. It does a fine job reading audio and data CDs, but I had that before. I would like to be able to play movies, too. What, if anything, do people use to watch DVDs on Linux? Open Source software? Commercial software? What experiences -- good or bad -- have people had? Opinions? Gotchas? I've used Ogle. I got it as rpms. It even includes the DeCSS part to view encrypted DVDs as a seperately installable library. http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/groups/dvd/ Oh, I'm using it on Mandrake 8.1 8.2 FWIW. -- --- Tom Buskey * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
