Re: keeping orca, atk, atspi in sync
Hi Don: You are best off using the GNOME release that includes the packages in question. So, for example, assume you want to use Orca v2.30. You should use all of GNOME v2.30. Or, for example, you want to use Orca v2.28. You should use all of GNOME v2.28. And so on. Will On Mon, 2010-03-29 at 16:11 -0700, Don Raikes wrote: Hi all, I am wanting ot upgrade the versions of orca, atk and atspi on my enterprise linux system. Are there any other packages I need to keep in sync with these three? ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
RE: keeping orca, atk, atspi in sync
Hi Don: It can be made to work by those skilled in the art. Will On Mon, 2010-03-29 at 17:00 -0700, Don Raikes wrote: Does something like jhbuild work to rebuild all of gnome. I haven't tried it in over a year. -Original Message- From: Willie Walker [mailto:walker.wil...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 4:52 PM To: Don Raikes Cc: gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: keeping orca, atk, atspi in sync Hi Don: You are best off using the GNOME release that includes the packages in question. So, for example, assume you want to use Orca v2.30. You should use all of GNOME v2.30. Or, for example, you want to use Orca v2.28. You should use all of GNOME v2.28. And so on. Will On Mon, 2010-03-29 at 16:11 -0700, Don Raikes wrote: Hi all, I am wanting ot upgrade the versions of orca, atk and atspi on my enterprise linux system. Are there any other packages I need to keep in sync with these three? ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
#a11y meeting on irc.gnome.org at 20:00UTC tomorrow
Hi All: Please note the time change -- this will be at 20:00UTC tomorrow: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=3day=19year=2010hour=20min=0sec=0p1=0 For those in the the United States, this is actually the same time (e.g., 4PM ET) due to the daylight savings time change. The topic for discussion will be finalizing preparation for the Accessibility Hackfest at CSUN next week. I'm really looking forward to CSUN this year! Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
#a11y IRC meeting at 21:00UTC tomorrow
Hi All: Let's have a #a11y meeting on irc.gnome.org tomorrow to go over: * GNOME 2.30 issues (I HOPE NOT)! * More CSUN discussion * Anything else someone would like to raise The time will be 21:00UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=3day=12year=2010hour=21min=0sec=0p1=0 See you then! Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: help pyatspi
Hi: I'm not sure exactly what you are asking (sorry :-(), but it sounds as though you want your application to consume the mouse button events rather than sending them on to the application. The AT-SPI currently allows this for keyboard press/release events, but doesn't do so well with this for mouse button events. XEvIE may have allowed this at one time (I don't remember), but XEvIE is dead for all intents and purposes. As other technologies, such as XInput2, are explored, consuming mouse button events may become possible. In the meantime, you might be able to look at using the keyboard or other kinds of input devices (e.g., a joystick) to control your application. Will On Tue, 2010-03-09 at 14:52 -0200, Esteban Arias wrote: hi, I nedd virtual mouse for linux. For example for win exist: http://centros6.pntic.mec.es/cpee.alborada/cps/raton/index.html I started to develop with pyatspi I move the cursor ok. but I need stop the movement when the user click. I registerEventListener ok. but i dont like as the click do to operating system. i like stop the movement without do click on the interface do you know if it is posible? thanks Esteban Arias I attach my code example ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: [Usability] GTK+ at the UX Hackfest
Li and I had talked about this in Ireland last April. I remember from the conversation that dynamically loading the a11y modules after an application has already started was probably OK, but that unloading them while the app was still running would cause them to crash. Li - is this still not the case? In addition, Li will the mechanism for the GTK+ application to register the application also get called appropriately if the modules are loaded after the application has been initialized? I thought I remember us discussion some potential issue with this as well. The thing I think we care about the most is preventing the need to log out and log back in to enable accessibility for applications on the desktop. Preventing a crash when a11y is disabled would also be necessary -- if disabling the dynamic unloading is the way to do that, then I think it would be acceptable to say that you need to log out and log back in for the disabling of a11y to take effect. In addition, I don't remember there actually being a mechanism in place to signal that a running GTK+ application should load new modules when the /desktop/gnome/interface/accessibility key changes. Bastien - I've never fully grok'ed the underlying mechanisms that trigger the XSETTINGS changes to occur. Does g-s-d do this, and does GTK+ react when the property changes? Will On Mar 2, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote: On Tue, 2010-03-02 at 12:22 +0800, Li Yuan wrote: Mathias made the patch (http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=118981 ) to make at-spi support XSettings. From a11y side, gail and atk-bridge/atk-adaptor, as GTK+ modules, should be able to be loaded at any time. If there is no registry daemon running, for CORBA version, at-spi-registryd will be started through Bonobo activation (atk-bridge does this job); for D-Bus version, at-spi2-registryd should be started through D-Bus activation (atk-adaptor does this job). There are also gnome_accessibility_module_shutdown functions for these A11Y modules. Maybe we need a unified way to shutdown GTK+ modules. Right, it seems the discussion we had with Willie was with outdated or incorrect data, so let's step back and look at the original problem again. We'd like to be able to enable/disable a11y in applications without a session restart, and, if possible, when deactivated, that the modules are unloaded and all a11y related functionality is torn down. The goal is to make it easier for developers that do not need a11y to test their applications with things like screen readers and other a11y helpers. What is missing for this to work? Can we remove the you need to restart your session from the a11y capplet in the control-center? Cheers ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Accessible * reference
Hi Nischal: I am developing an assistive application and am using the AT-SPI C APIs. WARNING: nobody is working on porting the C bindings for AT-SPI to D-Bus. So, I'd recommend using something else, such as Python. Having said that - welcome! What's the nature of your application? Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: An Open Letter to Oracle on the Topic Of Accessibility
I don't believe anything has been taped or put on line. I could post my slides if you are interested. Will On Wed, 2010-02-24 at 11:39 -0500, Steven Edwards wrote: I recently gave a 2 hour talk on GNOME and GNOME accessibility to the computer science department at RPI. We also worked with the HFOSS folks at Trinity College in Connecticut to bring GNOME and GNOME accessibility into their open source program. Will Are any of your recent talks viewable online? While I have never attended one, I think it would be a great topic for a Google TechTalk or O'Reilly Media presentation. ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: An Open Letter to Oracle on the Topic Of Accessibility
I encourage you to get more involved - it is the best way to make a difference. +1 :-) We need a strong advocate on the release team. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: An Open Letter to Oracle on the Topic Of Accessibility
+1 - Shaun gets it. You rock, Shaun. On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 09:56 -0600, Bryen M Yunashko wrote: On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 15:51 +, Steve Lee wrote: Sean It's fantastic to hear from developers who are committed to the accessibility of their projects and consider it as part of their roadmap. Awesome. Steve Lee I concur. What can we do to get others to learn from your example, Sean? Bryen ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: An Open Letter to Oracle on the Topic Of Accessibility
[[[apologies if this seems like it was written one paragraph at a time with no flow -- it was written one paragraph at a time while try to pay attention in a meeting]]] Education is key. Part of why I saw so much value in going to the GNOME Usability Hackfest was to spread the word and get accessibility considerations as close to the design as possible. It also needs to be done in a positive way to make them want to take ownership of the space versus us setting up a dependency relationship with them. In general, I think we want to create people that say I *know* how to make this accessible versus I think accessibility is important and I'm going to ask the accessibility guys to fix this for me. Getting to the latter, of course, is still a laudable achievement. :-) In general, we need to continue the advocacy, and I think we need advocates as close to the source of the solution as possible. So, having an advocate on the release team can help give a stronger voice that can help prevent accessibility problems from passing through releases. On a plus side, blockages created by advocates can help make developers more sensitive to accessible design and testing. But...these blockages need to be done with care. Closed fist table bangers with big mouths can help us once[1], but can also build up barriers that are hard to break down. So, instead of always banging on the table, we need to use those situations as learning opportunities for everyone, including us. Having said all that, it thrills me to see just about every GNOME developer and designer have some level of exposure to accessibility. Will [1] - I'm not saying we are closed fist table bangers. I'm just saying we need to take care in creating a perception that we are. On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 08:32 -0600, Bryen M Yunashko wrote: On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 09:24 -0500, Willie Walker wrote: I encourage you to get more involved - it is the best way to make a difference. +1 :-) We need a strong advocate on the release team. Will So how do we do this? Not just to ensure strong a11y advocacy on the release team, but in other areas of GNOME. People may feel they don't want to participate on a particular team (release team?) because they don't have the technical qualifications and/or simply don't want to sign on to yet another mailing list when their mailboxes are already overloaded. (I've got over 12,000 unread messages in my 'mailing list' account.) Do we educate those in the a11y community to be more technically proficient to participate in these teams? Do we educate the teams to look to the a11y team more? How do we find middle ground? We definitely need to do more to publicize our own actions and issues to a broader community and that's something I'm looking at seriously these days as I gear up for the upcoming CSUN conference and think about ways that will sustain news delivery from our team long after CSUN. To make it a more integral part of our daily activities. I don't think we have an answer just yet for an overnight solution, but the answer definitely must include, as Willie says, more advocacy and awareness of A11y across the board. Baked in, not bolted on Willie also says and I absolutely love that concept. Bryen Yunashko ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: An Open Letter to Oracle on the Topic Of Accessibility
Looks like you've had success already. http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/painless-accessibility-tips-for-gnome-designers-and-developers/ I still need to read this and get back to Mo to make sure what I thought I was saying (and what I thought was important) and what she heard are the same. :-) From a quick scan, I think it's all quite positive. Mo rocks. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: help with data on webkit accessibility
So the question now is where do we go from here? Do I spend my time hacking something together in Orca which only kinda sorta works to address the fact that Debian and Ubuntu have decided to do their own thing? Or do I spend my time trying to work on the WebKitGtk side of things? I'm sure my tone conveys my opinion. ;-) However, if the community consensus is that I should try to get *something* working on the Orca side of things, I will do my very best. My opinion: if given the choice between hacking something that will be thrown away and focusing on fixing the real problem, I say fix the real problem. We can work down stream with Ubuntu to get them go back to Gecko for now if they haven't already done so. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
GNOME Accessibility #a11y meeting at 21:00UTC
Hi All: Steve Lee from Project Possibility will be joining us in the #a11y meeting today at 21:00UTC to talk about the work Project Possibility folks will be doing with GNOME. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=2day=12year=2010hour=21min=0sec=0p1=0 Thanks! Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Accessibility Hackfest - Further Planning
Hi All: I'm looking into options to coming out to CSUN and hope to know soon. Will On Feb 10, 2010, at 11:01 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 11:41 +0800, Li Yuan wrote: On Wed, 2010-02-10 at 19:04 -0500, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: [...] Any other CSUN-bound hackers interested in becoming a strikepod person/strike developer of an awesome screen reader with an awesome bunch of users, give me a holler. Ke and I surely want to learn more things about Orca, and contribute as much as we can. Li, that's awesome! Thank you!! And my apologies for not having also pinged you on this. I just figured with all the AT-SPI and Atk and Gail and ... everything else you're already working on in GNOME a11y, that Orca was just one more thing you didn't need added to your plate. But the more the merrier! :-) I'm hoping Will will still be able to attend. After all, we've got a lot of work to do, and then some :-( Take care. --joanie ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: XEvie
Hi Patrick: As far as I understand, XEvIE is not being carried forward into future versions of X. Instead, I believe the XInput2 extension is meant to be some sort of replacement. You can quickly remove XEvIE from the builds by using the --disable-xevie switch for autogen.sh or configure. Will On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:29 AM, Patrick Welche wrote: On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 02:22:32PM +0100, Patrick Welche wrote: On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 08:32:59PM +0800, Li Yuan wrote: XEvIE has not been maintained for some time. I remember it doesn't work now. at-spi2 can intercept keyboard/mouse events through atk-adaptor. So g/c XEvIE from at-spi2-core? PS I got as far as compiling at-spi2-atk (patches to configure.ac and friends to follow), and g/cing XEvIE from at-spi2-core would get rid of Xlib: extension XEVIE missing on display :0.0. when starting at-spi2-registryd :-) Cheers, Patrick ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Vetruvian icon on a locked screen
I agree as well. I can also imagine a shared machine much like the one I have in my kitchen. With this machine, there is a switch user option on the locked screen that allows me to get access to my account even if someone else has walked away from the machine without logging out. In this case, someone with a disability coming up to the locked desktop would need some way to at least be able to activate the switch user button to get to a new login screen. So, a consistent a11y mechanism for the login screen, user desktop, and screen lock seems like it would make a lot of sense. Will On Feb 8, 2010, at 1:09 PM, Brian Cameron wrote: Francesco: However, from the perspective of the pointer only user, there is at least one additional topic that has to be taken into account: how should he start the onscreen keyboard when the desktop gets locked after a period of inactivity. My first idea would be to add the vetruvian man icon, that is already available in GDM, also to the locked screen. Yes, it would make sense for the lockscreen program to provide an a11y menu for launching AT programs. It would also make sense for it to be configurable so that users can set it up so that needed a11y programs are automatically launched each time the lockscreen is displayed. For example, if the user has the on-screen keyboard configured to be automatically started in their user session, then it seems sensible that it should also be available when the lock screen is dislayed. Among the things that have to be determined are: - What are the applications that are shipped with GNOME that can lock the screen? (One of these applications is probably the screensaver.) VT switching also locks the screen when you switch away from a running user session. - I can imagine that some assistive tools (maybe the screen reader for example) remain active, even if the screen gets locked. Note that from a Trusted Path perspective, you really do not want programs running as the user to interact with programs that ask for things like system passwords. Ideally, the lockscreen GUI should be run as a different user than the user whose session is locked. In this sort of setup, you would not want the a11y programs running in the user session to be able to interact with the lock screen, and would instead want them to be relaunched. However, this could be done automatically so that the user wouldn't notice the switch. Currently, the lock screen programs do not work this way, but it probably makes sense to work towards designing a next generation lock screen that better meets both a11y and Trusted Path requirements. Consequently, one might argue that the vetruvian man icon with its corresponding dialog to enable the assistive tools might be overkill for a locked screen. Not at all. It is important to provide users with the ability to configure a11y features for the lock screen. I believe gnome- screensaver already has interfaces for setting it up to work with on-screen keyboards. Check out the gnome-screensaver FAQ: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeScreensaver/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#Can_I_embed_an_on-screen_keyboard_for_use_with_mobile_devices.3F One the other hand however, one could also argue that using the same dialog as the dialog used during GDM would not only reduce code redundancy, but would also give a constant user interface to enable accessibility in GDM and on a locked screen. Or could there be any reason for not offering the full choice of assistive tools to the user during a locked screen? But, as you say, much more could be done. An a11y dialog like what is used in GDM would be a big improvement for the lockscreen. Brian ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: GNOME 2.30: go stable or go cutting edge?
Hi All: Just to follow up -- for GNOME 2.29.90, we've made the decision to make the stable stuff the default. So, the CORBA infrastructure will be installed to the same locations as it was with GNOME 2.28.x and the D-Bus infrastructure will be installed in a relocated spot. You can read more about the details at http://live.gnome.org/AccessibilityCORBAToDBusMapping. We'll shoot for going full D-Bus for GNOME 3.0. Thanks everyone! Will On Feb 3, 2010, at 6:56 AM, Vincent Untz wrote: Le lundi 01 février 2010, à 14:54 -0500, Willie Walker a écrit : Please, speak up with your thoughts. The collective opinion of our group matters and it will help shape what recommendations we will make to the release team for GNOME 2.30. I think both should be shipped, and we should document the status in our release notes (ie: we're making the new stack available for testing, we think it works okay but users depending on accessibility might want to use the well-tested code of the old stack instead). In the end, it's really a decision that will be taken by distributors anyway, and so we should make sure distributors ship both code and choose the one they prefer as default. (the good news is that with some of the recent changes, it's possible to have both stacks installed and so it's really simple to switch between the two) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
#a11y meeting today at 21:00UTC
Hi All: The first beta release of GNOME 2.30 is coming next week. Let's have a brief status meeting today at 21:00UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=2day=5year=2010hour=21min=0sec=0p1=0 We can take a look at http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3 and see what we're facing for GNOME 2.30 and think about what we can do for GNOME 3.0 with the limited resources we have. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
GNOME 2.30: go stable or go cutting edge?
Hi All: GNOME 2.30 is coming out on the Ides of March (March 15). I have one main question for you: do you want it to be stable or do you want it to have more cutting edge stuff? This question is predicated on the assumption that GNOME 2.30 is the last of the GNOME 2 releases and GNOME 3 is coming out this fall. It also assumes that we will resolve the harder problems we currently have with AT-SPI/D-Bus very soon. Here's the background -- GNOME Accessibility has been facing a perfect storm for the GNOME 2.30 cycle. The three major fronts of this storm are: Bonobo/CORBA elimination, WebKit accessibility, and GNOME Shell accessibility. You can read a lengthy summary of the current state of the work at http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3. Here's some pros/cons. Note that the quantity of pros/cons doesn't necessarily mean anything. They are just talking points, and actually quite simple at that. PROS/CONS for going with the cutting edge: == PRO: GNOME accessibility may be more widely available on smaller/mobile devices -- those devices are happy to have D-Bus but do not want CORBA. PRO: The cutting edge stuff will likely get more testing coverage for GNOME 3.0, helping improve the GNOME 3.0 accessibility experience. PRO: We will be able to eliminate a huge portion of deprecated stuff in GNOME. CON: GNOME 2.30 accessibility could very well be unstable or slow for day-to-day use for doing your job or functioning in life. Staying on GNOME 2.28.x would be recommended for people who need more stability. CON: GOK will not work. OnBoard and an early form of Caribou would be the on screen keyboard solutions. PROS/CONS for staying stable: = PRO: Users should still be able to use GNOME 2.30 with the same stability and reliability they get with GNOME 2.28.x. PRO: GOK will work. CON: The testing of cutting edge stuff may not be as broad, so GNOME 3.0 may go out without as much testing as it needs. CON: GNOME will need to continue to carry Bonobo/CORBA around. CON: GNOME accessibility will remain unavailable on smaller/mobile devices that do not ship Bonobo/CORBA. My first concern is the end user. As a result, I tend to be more conservative and lean towards stability. That is, making sure GNOME provides a compelling accessible desktop for reliable and usable day-to-day activity goes a long way to addressing the needs of the user. With this, we're likely to say GNOME 3.0 will be more wrinkled in terms of accessibility and we could look to GNOME 3.2 and 3.4 to iron things out. However, given where we are with proximity to GNOME 3, I'm also tempted by the notion of getting the new stuff out there sooner. This would potentially forsake the accessibility of the last (or one of the last) releases of the GNOME 2 series while helping set us up for an earlier accessibility success for GNOME 3. Please, speak up with your thoughts. The collective opinion of our group matters and it will help shape what recommendations we will make to the release team for GNOME 2.30. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
New contact information for Willie Walker
Hi All: I'm no longer checking e-mail at my old e-mail address and will now be conducting GNOME e-mail through a new e-mail address -- walker dot willie at gmail dot com. I hopefully have changed all my mailing list subscriptions and set up a notification on my old e-mail address. But please be sure to delete my old contact information from your address book and replace it with walker dot willie at gmail dot com. Thanks! Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Reschedule weekly meetings
Hi Eitan: We're going through a lot of severe changes for 2.30, mostly with respect to Bonobo Deprecation, WebKit, and GNOME Shell. If we don't get these right, we will suck and there's no use talking about other stuff. The goal of the weekly meetings was to keep us in touch with the GNOME 2.30 schedule and touch base to see how we are doing. So, it's mostly a status/planning meeting for understanding if we're going to make the 2.30 target, what barriers we are facing, and how we can help each other succeed. As such, the agenda is somewhat consistent: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3 Doodle.com was a failed experiment due to the variety of issues people had with its user interface -- people selected times that they didn't mean to select. So, I need to schedule the meeting to a different time that works for the people that I need there. Once I can do that, I will be a bit more diligent about agendas and e-mail reminders. For now thru the end of the GNOME 2.30 (and possibly GNOME 3) cycle, I want us to focus on things we need to do to get us past this perfect storm of three huge fronts. We can also discuss other things of importance, such as the CSUN Hackfest, Project:Possibility, etc. Will On Jan 25, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Eitan Isaacson wrote: I have had trouble making the meeting in the last couple of weeks, and I probably won't make it this week either. With that said, the day and time are the most convenient possible. Maybe people aren't showing up because the meetings are very frequent, and there is not enough to talk about each week? Will we lose momentum if we make this meeting bi-monthly? Or the facilitator should publish the agenda to the ML with a reminder, so people know to show up, and what will be discussed. Just some scattered thoughts. Cheers, Eitan. On Sun, 2010-01-24 at 11:51 -0500, Willie Walker wrote: Hi All: We have been limping along with our agreed-to meeting time of 21:00 UTC on Fridays. We agreed to this time slot using doodle.com. Based upon feedback from people, the user interface to doodle.com seems to have confused enough people so that the times slots they *thought* they were voting on were indeed different time slots. So, let's try again using an old-fashioned method that actually works. Please send me your availability on any of Friday, Saturday, Sunday, or Monday and I can try to come up with something that works for us. Thanks! Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: CSUN registration
Hi Steve: I believe you get access to the talks. You might, for example, get to hear all about something you already know about in my talk on GNOME and GNOME Accessibility. :-) Will On Jan 12, 2010, at 3:53 AM, Steve Lee wrote: Does anyone know what the full CSUN registration covers ($450) compared to the hall only access ($0). I'm about to register and need to decide. I plan to hang out at GNOME and other booths and do some hacking but not so bothered about seminars, other than to support friends. No point me spending the money if not needed. -- Steve Lee ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
#a11y meeting Friday 20:00UTC
Hi All: Let's have a quick meeting on the #a11y channel in irc.gnome.org tomorrow to go over http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3 and also leave some room to talk about the http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GetInvolved/SmallTasks page that Steve Lee has started. Gerd - can you also give a quick e-mail update of where you are with the migration of MouseTweaks to both AT-SPI/D-Bus and the new gdm panel? Thanks! Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Correction: #a11y meeting Friday 21:00UTC
Darn - you're right. I've corrected the subject line to match this: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=1day=8year=2010hour=16min=0sec=0p1=43 Will On 01/ 7/10 02:53 PM, Steve Lee wrote: 2010/1/7 Willie Walkerwilliam.wal...@sun.com: Let's have a quick meeting on the #a11y channel in irc.gnome.org tomorrow to Is that 21:00 UTC? I'll try to stay awake and actually attend this time. Steve ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
I NEED YOUR HELP: Q4 GNOME Quarterly Report
Hey All: Please send me your highlights for Oct 1 thru Dec 31 of 2009 for the GNOME Q4 Quarterly report. I need them by the end of this week so I can get them in for Monday. Here's what I can think of so far... * The GNOME Accessibility Project began having weekly IRC meetings to go over GNOME 3.0 accessibility plans and status: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3 * Ben Konrath made progress with Caribou for GNOME 3.0: http://live.gnome.org/Caribou * Joseph Scheuhammer made progress with the GNOME Shell Magnifier for GNOME 2.30: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595507 * Gerd Kohlberger is working on migrating the MouseTweaks applet to work with the new GDM panel for GNOME 2.30. * Brian Cameron debugged and improved the accessibility support for the new GDM login screen. * Mark Doffman, Mike Gorse, Li Yuan, Brad Taylor, and Willie Walker continued to make progress with AT-SPI/D-Bus - distributions are shipping it with their 2.29.x previews and providing valuable feedback on areas for improvement. * Willie Walker gave a talk on GNOME and GNOME a11y at RPI. * Willie Walker gave a talk on GNOME a11y at the Open Source Accessibility Forum: http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Open+Source+Accessibility * Eitan Isaacson is busy organizing the GNOME A11y Hackfest for CSUN. * Joanmarie Diggs worked feverishly on WebKitGTK+ A11y for GNOME 2.30. * Willie Walker, Jon McCann, Ray Strode, and Brad Taylor made progress on redesigning the accessibility preferences UI for GNOME 3.0: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/NewPreferencesGUI * Arky (Rakesh Ambati) began working on Mallardizing Orca and GNOME a11y documentation. * Luke Yelavich and others continued work on SpeechDispatcher as a replacement for gnome-speech. * Willie Walker and others worked with Chris Hofstader and Richard Stallman on drafts for a proposed GNU Accessibility Statement. Please help me fill in things I missed. Many apologies if I missed something you did -- it's not on purpose. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Proposal: mouse-only Caribou for GNOME 2.30
Hi Ben: I support this. From the larger GNOME a11y point of view, we have a goal of supplanting AT-SPI/CORBA with AT-SPI/D-Bus. We have about as solid as a plan as one can get in place with minimal funding and minimal resources to do the work. ;-) I wish I had buckets of money, but I don't. :-( As you infer in your message, the biggest thing at risk in the AT-SPI/D-Bus port is GOK -- GOK is an extensive user of the CSPI bindings for AT-SPI and there are zero resources or volunteers to port CSPI to D-Bus. All of the other CSPI consumers use CSPI minimally and have or are planning to port to D-Bus directly. So, the upshot is that GOK will most likely end up being incompatible with AT-SPI/D-Bus and we need to address this. I believe the two main categories of users served by GOK are mouse-only users and switch users. As you mention, Caribou coupled with MouseTweaks will serve a large portion of the GOK users, and perhaps in a more efficient way. So, you're totally rocking and heading in a great direction. So that leaves GOK users who depend upon switch-based access. With XEvIE having suffered a ill-fated death, poor GOK is being attacked on yet another side. So, I think it may make sense to revisit switch-based access once XInput2 is more prevalent. At that time, we may also investigate other new ideas for switch-based access such as Nomon, Jambu, etc. Until that point, we may need to recommend that existing switch-based users remain on GNOME 2.28 -- I'm not sure if that's an acceptable thing, however, and will check. Will Ben Konrath wrote: Hi, I'm thinking about shifting the development focus of Caribou from my initial plan. The next stage of my plan was to start adding switch access scanning to Caribou which would work towards text entry functionality for two use cases: mouse-only users and switch-access users. Looking at other stuff going on in GNOME accessibility community right now, I think it makes more sense to concentrate on making a rock solid application for the mouse-only user case in time for GNOME 2.30. This will allow distros to keep the CORBA base at-spi off for mouse only users (including dwell click users using MouseTweaks) as well as for the other use cases covered by programs using pyatspi. This doesn't help switch only users who will still need to use the CORBA based at-api but at least it's a step to include more users with the DBus based at-spi. I know that I missed the official module proposal for GNOME 2.30 so Caribou will not be officially included but I still think there is value to concentrating on one user group first. And I can defintely have something usable for mouse-only users in time for GNOME 2.30. So what do people think? Any thoughts about this would be appreciated. Cheers, Ben ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Reschedule weekly meetings
Hi All: Brian Cameron suggested using Doodle as a means to help set this up. So, I've started a Doodle poll here: http://www.doodle.com/rdqvqr8cke6cku46 Go to the URL, select your timezone and press the update button. Then...put your name in the Your name text entry field, check the checkboxes that indicate you availability, and then press Save. I've filled out the availability for people who have already responded to me. If the Doodle page is largely inaccessible to you, please still send me your availability. Thanks! Will Willie Walker wrote: Hi All: Today's #a11y meeting didn't go so well. I suspect it is probably due to the late notice and *not* lack of enthusiasm or interest. The timing of the meeting is also something that has been brought into question lately, anyway. So, first of all -- I need to stress the importance of us starting regular meetings again. I agree the meetings of late have been unstructured un-meetings mostly as a regular office hours kind of thing. We are having a perfect storm of changes for GNOME 2.30, however. There's a lot of work to do, and it is now a very good time for us to have a regular structured meeting to go over status and issues we're having on the various fronts. http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3 contains a list of things that are critical to our success. I need the listed people to be able to come for a discussion about where they are, what their vision is, what their trajectory for GNOME 2.30 and GNOME 2.32 is, and what help they need to succeed. We really need your participation since you are part of GNOME a11y and GNOME a11y depends upon you. So...please let me know what days and times work best for you. If you can provide UTC times, it would help me tons to sort things out. But, if you just provide your City and preferred days and times, I can try to work something up. See the following URL for a reference between areas of the world where people might be coming from: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=12day=7year=2009p1=0p2=43p3=240p4=438 Please send me the info soon and we can try to set up a new time starting next week. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Reschedule weekly meetings
Hi Bryen: Mon-Fri should be there. The days are arranged horizontally, though, so you need to scroll left/right to get to the other days. Will Bryen M Yunashko wrote: I notice that Doodle only gave Mondays as an option. Is this the only preferred option or are we willing to introduce other days of the week as options as well? Bryen On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 12:38 -0500, Willie Walker wrote: Hi All: Brian Cameron suggested using Doodle as a means to help set this up. So, I've started a Doodle poll here: http://www.doodle.com/rdqvqr8cke6cku46 Go to the URL, select your timezone and press the update button. Then...put your name in the Your name text entry field, check the checkboxes that indicate you availability, and then press Save. I've filled out the availability for people who have already responded to me. If the Doodle page is largely inaccessible to you, please still send me your availability. Thanks! Will Willie Walker wrote: Hi All: Today's #a11y meeting didn't go so well. I suspect it is probably due to the late notice and *not* lack of enthusiasm or interest. The timing of the meeting is also something that has been brought into question lately, anyway. So, first of all -- I need to stress the importance of us starting regular meetings again. I agree the meetings of late have been unstructured un-meetings mostly as a regular office hours kind of thing. We are having a perfect storm of changes for GNOME 2.30, however. There's a lot of work to do, and it is now a very good time for us to have a regular structured meeting to go over status and issues we're having on the various fronts. http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3 contains a list of things that are critical to our success. I need the listed people to be able to come for a discussion about where they are, what their vision is, what their trajectory for GNOME 2.30 and GNOME 2.32 is, and what help they need to succeed. We really need your participation since you are part of GNOME a11y and GNOME a11y depends upon you. So...please let me know what days and times work best for you. If you can provide UTC times, it would help me tons to sort things out. But, if you just provide your City and preferred days and times, I can try to work something up. See the following URL for a reference between areas of the world where people might be coming from: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=12day=7year=2009p1=0p2=43p3=240p4=438 Please send me the info soon and we can try to set up a new time starting next week. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Reschedule weekly meetings
Hi All: Today's #a11y meeting didn't go so well. I suspect it is probably due to the late notice and *not* lack of enthusiasm or interest. The timing of the meeting is also something that has been brought into question lately, anyway. So, first of all -- I need to stress the importance of us starting regular meetings again. I agree the meetings of late have been unstructured un-meetings mostly as a regular office hours kind of thing. We are having a perfect storm of changes for GNOME 2.30, however. There's a lot of work to do, and it is now a very good time for us to have a regular structured meeting to go over status and issues we're having on the various fronts. http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3 contains a list of things that are critical to our success. I need the listed people to be able to come for a discussion about where they are, what their vision is, what their trajectory for GNOME 2.30 and GNOME 2.32 is, and what help they need to succeed. We really need your participation since you are part of GNOME a11y and GNOME a11y depends upon you. So...please let me know what days and times work best for you. If you can provide UTC times, it would help me tons to sort things out. But, if you just provide your City and preferred days and times, I can try to work something up. See the following URL for a reference between areas of the world where people might be coming from: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=12day=7year=2009p1=0p2=43p3=240p4=438 Please send me the info soon and we can try to set up a new time starting next week. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: A11y Holiday Party
So...call me Grinch Willie. :-) You guys can party from 15:00-16:00UTC, but at the currently regularly scheduled time of 16:00-17:00UTC, I'm going to cover up the rum balls and break out the pencils and paper: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=12day=7year=2009hour=16min=0sec=0p1=0 We are having a perfect storm of changes for GNOME 2.30. There's a lot of work to do, and it is now a very good time for us to have a regular structured meeting to go over status and issues were having on the various fronts. I've updated http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3 to reflect the critical touchpoints for GNOME 2.30. This doesn't mean other things such as Orca, MouseTrap, accerciser, etc., are not important. Instead, the list is the list of things that will potentially break GNOME accessibility miserably if work is not done on them. If your name is on the list at http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3, please come to the post party meeting at 16:00UTC and be prepared to give a short status report of where you are, what issues you face, and what kind of help you need to succeed. If I've stupidly forgotten you, please chastise and embarrass me in public because I deserve it, and then please go update the WIKI page and add yourself. NOTE to Mark Doffman -- since we meet in the FSG a11y meetings on Tuesdays, there's no need to duplicate AT-SPI/D-Bus discussion in the GNOME #a11y meeting (i.e., you don't need to come if you don't want to). Thanks! Will PS - We can talk about a time change for future meetings, but we'll keep the one on December 7th at 16:00UTC. Bryen M Yunashko wrote: Okay, it won't really feel like a holiday party. We won't have refreshments, no singing of Carols (or Barbaras or Janes either), and certainly no lights hanging along the IRC Channel's walls and festooning trees and menorahs. But we're still going to have an end of the year #a11y meeting on Monday, December 7th at our usual time. Let's use this time to tackle any immediate business we need to tend to, reflect on what has happened for the past year and think of what we want to see happen for this awesome A11y Team in 2010. This will be the last meeting of the year, what with holidays coming up and everyone busy out shopping for holiday gifts for me. So... See you all in GNOME's #a11y channel at 15:00 UTC And if you've never come to our meetings before, come on down anyway. We'd love to see you there! Bryen ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Dotless braille
Hi All: Just an FYI. Here's some information on dotless braille was sent to me via private e-mail and I received permission to pass it on. http://www.dotlessbraille.org is an interesting thing for sighted people to easily map contracted braille to printed text. Here's a sample: http://www.dotlessbraille.org/sample3.GIF There may be some potential uses for this in the DOTS idea Eitan was working on and/or a braille transcription plugin for OpenOffice. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Carrying over ATs from GDM to GNOME session (brainstorm)
Brian: An issue which the carry over solution would solve is the very awkward method by which a11y needs to be enabled for the desktop. Unlike gdm, which will have a11y enabled by default, the user session has a11y disabled by default. So, if you can get an AT running during an inaccessible session, you really need to hope that the AT sets the a11y gconf flag and offers you with the ability to log out. It makes 100% sense to me for the setting of /desktop/gnome/interface/accessibility to carry over to the user session. If the user launched an AT program in the login program, then it would make sense for GDM to just go ahead and set this key for the user session before starting it, for example. This would be a big plus. The existing login/set_a11y/logout/login process is reasonable, but certainly not compelling. But doing this in a way that you are certain to not mess up the user's personal configuration may be hard. Perhaps it would be reasonable to go ahead and set the GConf values for the text-to-speech case only if the Run at start GConf setting is unchecked. Or to set the user's theme only if the user is currently using the system default theme. On first blush, this seems like it could work, but you really need to be careful when messing around with the user's preferences like this. Agreed. We have a mishmash of settings and config files across multiple areas, so I believe some hardcoding of stuff would probably be necessary (and perhaps brittle). The carry over would help ensure that the a11y gconf flag is set for the user if it is needed, making the user session accessible. Imagine also that I needed high contrast large print inverse to log in. It sure seems awkward to have to go through the theme selection process all over again once I login. I think the carry over solution would be a much more pleasant out of the box experience. Right. Although, providing keybindings and mouse dwell gestures to set the a11y theme also seems a reasonable solution to avoid this sort of setup. I'd like to shoot for the star that says Compelling on it rather than Reasonable. Reasonable usually ends up meaning the minimal compromise we make to push a clunky solution. I think we need to hear more from our end users about what they think would be compelling. I'm not 100% sure, but I think one of the more useful ones is the dwell gesture provided by MouseTweaks. So, that can be resolved by putting the MouseTweaks applet in the panel and hope/assume that the user has some way of moving the mouse when they approach one of these public kiosks. If MouseTweaks can solve the problem, that would be awesome. It would be nice. We really need to hear from users about whether this would work or not. If it does, then the worry about mouse gestures might be for naught. That would leave us with worrying about keyboard gestures (which can be solved using the existing keyboard shortcuts mechanism) and switch-based gestures. Francesco's solution of offering a checkbox seems like it might work and be rather simple. I worry this approach would be prone to error. Users may not realize they need to set or unset the checkbox - especially if they launched an AT program via a keybinding rather than the a11y dialog. Rather than two non-UI designers designing this, I think we need to pull in the thoughts of UI-designers and end users about solutions that would work. I do not think the environment variable approach is a very good one. I just shared that past work for reference. I think it makes more sense for GDM to set the user's GConf settings so that things work properly on login. The trick is doing this in a way that the user's preferences never get messed up if the user has actually modified them. Doing it in GDM would definitely allow it to have more knowledge and be more flexible. Do you have ideas for where in GDM we might be able to do this? Would it need to be in C code? Would it be possible to have it call out to some other module/script? Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Carrying over ATs from GDM to GNOME session (brainstorm)
Agreed. We have a mishmash of settings and config files across multiple areas, so I believe some hardcoding of stuff would probably be necessary (and perhaps brittle). Just one additional thought on this -- a mantra I live by for Orca is to let the user requirements drive the architecture rather than the other way around. So, I agree we should always strive to keep things clean from a code/architecture perspective while we work to provide a compelling experience for users. But, all things being equal, I think the user experience is more important than architectural onanism. I also don't think we can just close our eyes and pretend to be blind, or pretend we have limited mobility or pretend to be hard of hearing. We really need to engage end users for help on what they would perceive as a good experience. So, we're discussing this in a good spot (gnome-accessibility-list) and I'm encouraging end users to speak up with their thoughts. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Request for comment (accessibility team): release date for GNOME 3.0
Hi All: In a nutshell -- IMO, GNOME 2.30 might be good enough to call a Preview for GNOME 3.0, but nowhere near something we should call GNOME 3.0. We want GNOME 3.0 to be solid and sexy for everyone. GNOME 2.32 is probably the earliest we should shoot for. I might also suggest we create a few more point releases for GNOME 2.28 as a means to keep some stability in GNOME while the transition is being made. For longish details, perhaps with some diatribes from a mind that is a bit concerned at the moment, read on. I did take at least 10 breaths before pressing the Send button, too. You don't want to see my earlier drafts. ;-) As we discussed at GNOME Boston, we are currently facing a perfect storm when it comes to GNOME Accessibility. The three major fronts that are converging together are as follows: 1) Bonobo Deprecation (AT-SPI/D-Bus, SpeechDispatcher, GNOME Shell mag) 2) WebKit a11y 3) GNOME Shell a11y Other weather patterns, such as frequent unfortunate regressions in gdm a11y[1], are things that aren't new to us and stuff we generally just need to absorb by our very small team. The Bonobo Deprecation work is being tracked at http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BonoboDeprecation. We are generally on target for getting a Bonobo/CORBA-free a11y stack (including speech and magnification) by GNOME 2.30, but I would feel uncomfortable calling it polished by GNOME 2.30. I would instead be more inclined to call it a preview that we can polish for Sep 2010 at the earliest. The AT-SPI/D-Bus work is chugging along. We hope to have something in place by early next week where AT-SPI/D-Bus will be the default for GNOME 2.29 and AT-SPI/CORBA will also be available as a backup. Once we get this in people's hands for larger testing, we'll have a better idea of where we stand. There is a concern that CSPI is not slated to be ported to D-Bus, unless resources magically appear and join our mythically large a11y army. ;-) We're working to understand the impact of this, with the biggest consumer being GOK. As Ben Konrath mentioned, he's working on a new Python/pyatspi-based utility that might supplant GOK, so it might eliminate the need for CSPI. Ben's work isn't due to land until Sep 2010, though. The speech stack is a bit of an issue, but the good thing is that the approach (migrating to SpeechDispatcher from gnome-speech) is something that Ubuntu has been shipping for a while now. As a result, it's getting some good testing coverage from end users. It also has being met with mixed results, mostly due to PulseAudio issues as well as a nasty speech dispatcher crasher that remains elusive. Speech dispatcher also needs to be tested (and perhaps fixed) on thin devices such as the SunRay. There are minimal resources for the speech work and I'm concerned. Since this work might be something of interest to other groups (e.g., using GNOME on your small mobile device to do a speaking GPS), I'm hoping we can get some help somewhere. For magnification, there are two potential solutions. The first one (porting gnome-mag to D-Bus) is being investigated by the last known gnome-mag maintainer in his spare time, but there are no commitments. The second solution is being done by Dr. Joseph Scheuhammer at the ATRC. Joseph is incorporating magnification directly into GNOME Shell. The work is progressing well, and I hope we can see some success for GNOME 2.30. The difficult part, however, is that GNOME Shell is currently inaccessible. As a result, we have a dependency relation set up on an inaccessible component. Scary. Joanmarie Diggs has taken on the burden of digging into WebKit internals for a11y and she's doing a fantastic job at it. The opportunity cost of needing Joanie to backfill the WebKit a11y internals work, however, is that we're basically tabling all but the highest priority Orca work and work in other areas (e.g., OOo and Firefox). I'm hoping Igalia can pick back up on the WebKit a11y work[2]. My goal would be to achieve a good first milestone, which is that yelp/WebKit will be accessible. After that, WebKit then needs to start rolling in support for ARIA. I've saved the biggest unknown for last: GNOME Shell. We had some good discussions about GNOME Shell a11y at GNOME Boston. At the surface level, I believe people agree GNOME Shell a11y is necessary. However... GNOME Shell is lacking when it comes to communicating with the AT-SPI. API has looked at doing some a11y work in clutter, but this work is likely be too low in the stack. GNOME Shell has also recently introduced their NBTK fork, ST, which provides a toolkit on top of clutter. This might be a place to put ATK support, but there are no resources allocated to the task. API might take a look (which would be awesome). With the exception of pressing the Windows key to bring up the shell view and pressing Alt+Tab to switch between windows, keyboard
Re: Considering remaining with CORBA accessibility framework for Ubuntu 10.04, Lucid Lynx.
Hi Luke: Being safe and stable is a good thing. We recently worked on some solutions to allow the CORBA and D-Bus solutions to co-exist on the file system and then allow for the setting of a key to switch between the two (you cannot run both at the same time). With this, you should be able to ship both. The current default solution we hope to achieve for GNOME 2.29.2 is that AT-SPI/D-Bus will be the default, but you can switch to AT-SPI/CORBA by setting a boolean gconf key. All the code is in place in the CORBA and D-Bus solutions to do this and we're waiting to fix a few more issues in the D-Bus solution before pulling the trigger. Support for doing the opposite (i.e., making the CORBA solution the default and providing a gconf key to switch to the D-Bus solution) is marginally there in the builds for both, but it needs more testing and probably some modification. You can also read more about the shift from CORBA to D-Bus at the following URLs (damn me for screwing up the creation of the second WIKI page - I didn't notice that I didn't make it a child of the 'Accessibility' page until just now): http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BonoboDeprecation http://live.gnome.org/AccessibilityCORBAToDBusMapping Hope this helps, Will Luke Yelavich wrote: Hi all You may or may not be aware that the planning for Lucid Lynx is now under way. Lucid Lynx will be a long term support release, so many aspects of developing the distro are being done in a somewhat more conservative approach this cycle. Since Lucid will still be shipping GNOME panel et al , which requires bonobo etc, I am seriously considering remaining with at-spi in its current form, i.e using bonobo/orbit, for the single reason that it works well, and changing to the dbus implementation will break existing applications in Ubuntu like gok and dasher, since at-spi over dbus does not yet have a C library for client apps to link to, at least as I understand things. I would like to hear people's thoughts on whether this is the right approach. On one hand, I'd love to move over to the new implementation of at-spi, however since this is a long term support release, I really do not want to introduce possible breakage and regressions in some, if not all, use cases. I guess what I am asking for, is a convincing argument to move to at-spi over dbus. I am also interested from a distro packager's point of view, as to how easy it is to transition over. If its not much work to transition, and I can make the change early in the lucid cycle, to allow for testing, then I will certainly give weight to using at-spi over dbus, but as I've said, I am concerned about breaking otherwise working applications, especially in a long term support release. Thanks in advance for any thoughts/suggestions you may have. Luke ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Carrying over ATs from GDM to GNOME session (brainstorm)
Yeah! Thanks for starting this, Franceso. It is highly needed feature to improve the out-of-the-box experience for GNOME. If this can be achieved, and we can convince distros to turn a11y on for gdm by default, we can provide an experience that eliminates the need for the user to login, enable a11y, logout, and login again. and I only know little about how it works, this email will mainly concentrate on the point of view of the user. I hope that other people will take the opportunity to add their own view about the problem to this thread, regardless of whether it is a technical view or not. Coming at it from the user point of view first is the right way to approach this, IMO. Your discussion below seems to be able to be boiled down to the question of providing some level of reasonable access to the login screen using some assistive technologies, but then allowing different assistive technologies (or perhaps just different settings for the same assistive technologies) to be used in the user session. There's also the notion of carrying over settings such as theming (for high contrast large print, etc.) and AccessX preferences for StickyKeys, MouseKeys, etc. So...just thinking out loud...the two main use cases seem to be 1) the initial login of a user, and 2) logins from the same user thereafter. For the initial login, I'd guess we'd want to automatically carry over whatever a11y settings/tools were used at the login screen. As an aside -- I believe GDM already saves these settings in its profile so you do not need to re-enable the assistive technologies when returning to the GDM screen. This may or may not be a desirable feature. I'd say it's desirable in personal use systems, but perhaps not so desirable in shared systems. But, the good thing is that GDM at least knows what settings need to be retained. In any case, the user has now logged in for the first time and their a11y environment is now identical to what they used on the gdm login screen. For many settings, the user can customize things further and the user can also configure any AT's to automatically start when they log in. Now assume the user logs out and gets through the login again. We have two use cases for that: 1) the user logged in using the same a11y features as they did before, and 2) the user logged in user different a11y features. This is where things can get a bit crazy because either case may end up conflicting with the preferences the user may have set for their session. So...I kind of like your 'carry over' checkbox idea. If checked, the user's a11y environment will be reset somehow with the settings used for logging in. This would help handle the first login of a user. If not checked, nothing will be carried over from the login screen. This would help handle the subsequent logins of a user (who has presumably configured their a11y preferences for their desktop). I think we might want to uncheck the checkbox by default. If we could detect that a user is logging in for the first time or if they modified the a11y preferences on the login screen, perhaps we could enable the checkbox by default. Anyway, that's just me thinking out loud. Many thanks for starting this discussion. Will The first question that comes to my mind: can the carrying over be always active because GDM is by itself able to determine when to carry over the ATs, or is an option necessary for the user to activate the carrying over? Let's start with the case where there is an option for the user to activate the carrying over, as it is the more simple case: On obvious location for the option would be the accessibility dialog of GDM. This will however have the consequence that there will only be one option for all the users. It might be better giving each user an own option; the option could for example only appear after the user has entered his login name and before he enters the password. In this case, the accessibility dialog is not anymore a good location for the carry over option; it might be better to make it appear under the password entry field; and it only needs to appear when the user has activated one or more assistive tools. Next question: What should happen if the user activates the carry over option and there already are other tools to automatically start in the GNOME session? For two different onscreen keyboards, that should not be a problem if they are started simultaneously in the GNOME session; but what about two different screen readers? A good solution to this problem might make the carry over option useless if GDM is able to determine by itself what tool to carry over. Let's consider the case where there is the carry over option and it is specific to each user. I can imagine that the user activates it at least the first time he uses the GNOME session; if he uses different assistive tools in the GNOME session than in GDM, he will probably not
Re: Carrying over ATs from GDM to GNOME session (brainstorm)
Personally, I think that a more serious problem is fixing gnome-settings-daemon and control-center to allow AT programs to be easily launched via hotkey and gestures. Refer here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531595 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531596 This regression is indeed bad. It's fortunate that the bugs are logged, however (and thank you!), and the discussion of this thread can continue to focus on carrying over ATs from GDM to GNOME session. The ability to carry-over AT programs from the login screen to the user session is not such a needed feature if the user can easily launch the AT programs once their session starts. An issue which the carry over solution would solve is the very awkward method by which a11y needs to be enabled for the desktop. Unlike gdm, which will have a11y enabled by default, the user session has a11y disabled by default. So, if you can get an AT running during an inaccessible session, you really need to hope that the AT sets the a11y gconf flag and offers you with the ability to log out. The carry over would help ensure that the a11y gconf flag is set for the user if it is needed, making the user session accessible. Imagine also that I needed high contrast large print inverse to log in. It sure seems awkward to have to go through the theme selection process all over again once I login. I think the carry over solution would be a much more pleasant out of the box experience. Typically users only need to do this sort of boot-strapping on first-login anyway, since users would typically would configure AT programs to always launch in their user session on login. So, after first login, I am not sure the need to carry over AT settings even makes sense. Willie also seemed to express concern about this. If the carry over feature were in place, I believe the most common place one would want to use gestures to launch an AT would be at the login screen. Once a user has logged in, they are likely to configure their session so the AT automatically starts when they log in. The cases where I've seen end users wanting to start an AT from a keystroke is for cases where they really want to restart the AT. For example, sometimes the a11y infrastructure hangs or an app hangs or orca hangs. The quickest way to unhang the system can be to restart orca because orca clears up a bunch of stuff when it initializes. So, the user can create a custom keystroke to launch Orca via the System-Preferences-Keyboard_Shortcuts dialog. However, I might be missing something, which is the case where a gnome-session is *always* running, such as in a public kiosk. It seems to me that the System-Preferences-Keyboard_Shortcuts dialog would provide at least some way to set up the AT's to launch via keystrokes. That would then leave the non-keyboard related gestures (e.g., the mouse enter/leave over boundaries gestures). I'm not 100% sure, but I think one of the more useful ones is the dwell gesture provided by MouseTweaks. So, that can be resolved by putting the MouseTweaks applet in the panel and hope/assume that the user has some way of moving the mouse when they approach one of these public kiosks. Dealing with the complexities of making AT programs carry over while honoring the users personal preferences seems hard to implement correctly. Francesco's solution of offering a checkbox seems like it might work and be rather simple. Note that this topic was discussed before, in 2007. A patch for the old GDM was written that implemented the feature you are describing. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=411501 However, as you can see from the bug comments, the patch was never really finished, and some of the design issues were never resolved. It would probably be good to look over that previous work to see what was done before, and to check if any of the ideas might be useful in this effort. The work in the bug seems kind of interesting in that the carry over mechanism is basically an environment variable. I think a hard part would be to then turn this into something that makes sure the a11y settings are set appropriately and as one might expect. Note also that if the AT-SPI infrastructure is needed, the gconf key should be set before any GUI operations are done so that the appropriate a11y modules can be loaded by GTK+. I'm curious if some sort of script/app run via an autostart *.desktop file during the gnome-session initialization phase might be able to perform some logic based upon the presence/absence (and value if present) of an environment variable. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
[Fwd: [Accessibility-atspi] Releasing Anumaan...]
Interesting stuff! I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but thought I'd pass this along. Will ---BeginMessage--- Hi, We are announcing the release of alpha-0.1 version of Anumaan, a perspective based, on-screen predictive text entry system for GNOME desktop.Anumaan is an extension of an Input Method (IM) mechanism (on GNOME desktop) in the sense that it extends its (IM) notion by including the power of text prediction. It has support for UTF-8 unicode encoding. Anumaan is ported to Gtk+ text widget using AT-SPI library. Please do refer to my blog post for more details at http://moebiuscurve.livejournal.com/26656.html. * Anumaan URLs:* Anumaan Main Page on CDAC Mumbai Website: http://www.cdacmumbai.in/index.php/cdacmumbai/research_and_publications/research_groups/open_source_soft_division/projects/anumaan AnumaanLinux source download: http://www.cdacmumbai.in/projects/anumaan/downloads/AnumaanLinux-alpha-0.1.tar.gz(released under GNU/GPL 3.0 License) AnumaanLinux Documentation can be accessed at: http://www.cdacmumbai.in/projects/anumaan/docs/AnumaanLinuxUserManual/index.html Anumaan-standalone download: http://www.cdacmumbai.in/projects/anumaan/downloads/Anumaan-standalone-alpha-0.1.tar.gz Anumaan-standalone Documentation can be accessed at: http://www.cdacmumbai.in/projects/anumaan/docs/AnumaanStandaloneUserManual/index.html Anumaan Default Language Model download: http://www.cdacmumbai.in/projects/anumaan/downloads/AnumaanDefaultLM.tar.gz *Anumaan demo Videos:* A session of AnumaanLinux: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSzLt9ZVnOY A session of Anumaan-standalone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah9w37JY7ec NB: The Application is still evolving, hence please do give us your feedbacks, bug reports or feature enhancement requests. Please mail us at mailto:predictanum...@gmail.com Thanks regards Naveen Kumar Assistant Software Engineer Open Source Software Division( http://ossrc.org.in/ ) C-DAC Mumbai ( http://www.cdacmumbai.in/ ) Mobile : +91 9987231547 ( http://naveenk.wikidot.com ) ___ Accessibility-atspi mailing list accessibility-at...@lists.linux-foundation.org https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-atspi ---End Message--- ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
[Fwd: OCRFeeder v0.3 Released]
FYI. I've not looked at this yet, but I thought I'd pass the announcement on. If it's not usable with Orca, we should try to get them feedback. Will ---BeginMessage--- Hi folks, I'd like to let you know that I released the 0.3 version of OCRFeeder. What is OCRFeeder === OCRFeeder is a document layout analysis and optical character recognition system. In this version === * A setup.py script that makes installation easier * Zoom fit option to the zoom options and its usage when an image is loaded * German translation (thanks to Renard Voß) * Code improvements * Better integration of the Tesseracthttp://code.google.com/p/tesseract-ocrOCR engine * Better desktop integration by using an application icon and desktop file * Updated instructions in the README file * Corrected a few issues in the OCR engines manager dialog * Corrected engine name access * Fixed project being cleared whether a new project is successfully loaded or not * Correct actions availability depending on the existence of images Where can you get it * You can get this version's tarball from: http://ocrfeeder.googlecode.com/files/OCRFeeder-0.3.tar.gz * You can get the code from: http://gitorious.org/ocrfeeder/ocrfeeder Best regards, -- Joaquim Rocha http://www.joaquimrocha.com ___ gnome-announce-list mailing list gnome-announce-l...@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-announce-list ---End Message--- ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Help me with the Q3 Report
Hi All: It's time for the GNOME Q3 quarterly report. We had a really good presence in the Q2 report, with mentions of: * HFOSS wrapup * WebKit a11y * Java ATK Wrapper * Mono a11y * Speech dispatcher * Magnification/GNOME Shell * Ca11y * Mago The Q3 report will cover July, August, September, and I'd like to give some follow up on the above as well as any new activities that happened during Q3. GNOME Boston will count for Q4, by the way, so we need to save all the good stuff that happened in it for the Q4 report. For those of you with notable stuff from Jul/Aug/Sep, please send me your information. Many thanks! Will PS - Here's the Q2 report (I'm trying to dig up a more accessible format) http://foundation.gnome.org/reports/gnome-report-2009-Q2.pdf ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Help me with the Q3 Report
Do you have a bug report handy? Will Kenny Hitt wrote: Are you going to mention the breakage of gnome-terminal in 2.28, or is this just for good news? Kenny On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 05:27:00PM -0400, Willie Walker wrote: Hi All: It's time for the GNOME Q3 quarterly report. We had a really good presence in the Q2 report, with mentions of: * HFOSS wrapup * WebKit a11y * Java ATK Wrapper * Mono a11y * Speech dispatcher * Magnification/GNOME Shell * Ca11y * Mago The Q3 report will cover July, August, September, and I'd like to give some follow up on the above as well as any new activities that happened during Q3. GNOME Boston will count for Q4, by the way, so we need to save all the good stuff that happened in it for the Q4 report. For those of you with notable stuff from Jul/Aug/Sep, please send me your information. Many thanks! Will PS - Here's the Q2 report (I'm trying to dig up a more accessible format) http://foundation.gnome.org/reports/gnome-report-2009-Q2.pdf ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Accessibility Summit for GNOME Boston?
Hi API: Let's plan on an irc.gnome.org/#a11y IRC meeting this coming Monday at 14:00UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=9day=14year=2009hour=10min=0sec=0p1=43 I'd like to talk about what we may do at GNOME Boston this year. I think your suggestions are good. I'm going to tend to be very focused on having GNOME 3.0 end up being an accessibility success vs. a disaster. Some of the top issues surrounding this are: * New infrastructure -- D-Bus instead of CORBA. The work needs to be completed, tested, and performance work probably needs to be done. In addition, it may not be a drop in replacement but may require changes to existing implementations (e.g., OpenOffice might need to change some). * New speech support -- SpeechDispatcher+ instead of gnome-speech. We need to test this and integrate it into Orca and also make sure it works on all platforms. * New magnification -- part of GNOME Shell instead of gnome-mag. The work needs to get done, a D-Bus API needs to be written, it needs to be integrated with Orca, etc. * Clutter/Mutter/GNOME Shell a11y -- where do AT-SPI implementations belong, where is a11y work needed, and who can do the work? * WebKit a11y -- definitely an opportunity for Joanie and Xan to meet face-to-face and go over issues and give us a better picture for how to reach success. This is a *LOT* of work. The end result, however, should be worth it. Will Piñeiro wrote: From: Willie Walker william.wal...@sun.com Hi, there is any advance about any accessibility summit on Boston? This seems that the proposal hasn't got much success, at least on this thread. Here in Igalia we have a little debate about people going to the Boston Summit. Most likely Xan Lopez will go to the Boston Summit, to hack about different aspects of Webkit-GTK+ (current status, integration with GNOME Shell and so on), so probably he will be open to talk about a11y as well. We are debating as well if would be interesting to go myself, to share some thoughts about Cally or other a11y themes. Li Yuan commented about atk-bridge and two toolkits. He likely was talking about GTK+ and Qt, but there are similar issues here with Clutter and GTK+. In summary talk about and test points like: * Multiple toolkits on desktop using the same bridge (GTK+ vs Qt, GTK+ vs Clutter, etc) * Current status of Mutter/GNOME Shell a11y * How to use Cally in this task * Current missing features * Prioritize * How to interact with GNOME Shell from a a11y POV (not just automatic testing, apps like Orca and so on) Any one interested in this points? It will be any accessibility summit on Boston or it is discarded at this moment? How about the dates? In your original mail one of your points if the magnification on GNOME Shell, will any GNOME Shell folk appear at the hypothetical a11y summit? As you can figure of my questions, right now I'm not really sure about that, as I don't know if anyone is interested on these points, of just if the a11y summit is discarded. Hi All: Who is interested in an accessibility summit for GNOME Boston this year? http://live.gnome.org/Boston2009 - October 10-12 I have a scheduling conflict where I will only be able to attend Sunday and Monday (i.e., Saturday is out), but I think it might be great to get together to talk about things such as: 1) GNOME 3.0 goals: * Completing the AT-SPI/D-Bus work * Magnification work being rolled into GNOME Shell * Speech dispatcher * Testing testing testing 2) Organizing ourselves to help provide distributions feedback and help with the way they integrate accessibility 3) Revisiting our gaps and areas where people can get involved 4) Potential integration with other global organizations to promote and foster open source accessibility I'm also encouraging the desktop testing folks to get something together. Note that many of the above could be done via e-mail if necessary. Being able to get together for a hackfest or code sprint for AT-SPI/D-Bus, however, might be a very useful thing to do face-to-face. So...please let me know your thoughts, Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
GNOME Boston
Hi All: Let's plan on an irc.gnome.org/#a11y IRC meeting this coming Monday at 14:00UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=9day=14year=2009hour=10min=0sec=0p1=43 I'd like to talk about what we may do at GNOME Boston this year. Thanks! Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Accessibility Summit for GNOME Boston?
I actually won't be in town the whole week. :-( Will Brad Taylor wrote: Hey, On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 13:04 +, Willie Walker wrote: Hi All: Who is interested in an accessibility summit for GNOME Boston this year? http://live.gnome.org/Boston2009 - October 10-12 I have a scheduling conflict where I will only be able to attend Sunday and Monday (i.e., Saturday is out), but I think it might be great to get together to talk about things such as: What about planning a day session on Friday like what has been done in previous years? Novell could provide a venue for the discussions in our Cambridge office. Best, -Brad ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Question about accessible help
Hi Shaun: Thanks so much for asking. I think we'd need to see the HTML content that is generated. There might be things around this that could be improved (e.g., making sure things are in a table with proper headings and such). We might also try looking at other ways to get the same visual ease of use, but provide hints for the screen reader to say something. Do you have some example HTML we could play with? Will Shaun McCance wrote: Please keep gnome-doc-list CC'd on replies. The documentation team was discussing using check marks in feature comparison tables in help documents, but we were worried about the accessibility impact. Without: Service Audio Video AIM No No JabberYes Yes With: Service Audio Video AIM Jabber✔ ✔ Looking at it visually, the meaning is pretty clear. And it's really much easier to scan. And, well, it looks nice. But I'm afraid a screen reader will just say AIM [pause] [pause] Jabber HEAVY CHECK MARK HEAVY CHECK MARK, which doesn't convey that much information. Can someone from the accessibility team give some guidance? -- Shaun ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: yelp a11y for 2.28 (was Who is using WebKit in GNOME 2.28?)
Hi All: Moving the discussion from desktop-devel-list to gnome-accessibility-list now that it has become more focused on specific accessibility tasks (the prior discussion was dealing with WebKit accessibility across the desktop). Shaun has two main questions regarding the documentation: 1) We'd like to make the HTML output of our documentation better for screen readers, including having aural CSS rules if those would help. But without accessibility experts, I'd just be guessing. I'm not sure embedding ACSS (aural CSS) would be the right thing to do. ACSS is more about providing a description of a voice, pitch, rate, etc., to be used. For web content, this can conflict with a user's screen reader preferences. However, having intimate knowledge of the content being provided and being able to provide suggestions for how it should be spoken is interesting. For example, perhaps suggesting different voices for code or pre segments or different speaking rates for complex terms and phrases might be interesting. Another alternative might be to convert the documents to DAISY format (http://www.daisy.org/) for use by DAISY readers. This might be more achievable in the short term and might be more useful given that DAISY readers are designed to provide pretty efficient access to documents. 2) With the new topic-based Mallard help, it will be possible for us to tailor help to individual users better. I'd like to talk to some accessibility people about what help topics we should provide for accessibility, and how we might be able to detect that users are using accessibility tools and make those topics more discoverable to those users. Other than knowing a Mallard is a duck, I'm not familiar with Mallard at all (my apologies). :-( Could we do an IRC meeting some time with my team and yours? Or perhaps we could have a face-to-face. Will you be at the Boston Summit? The a11y community tries to gather at 14:00UTC on Mondays in #a11y on irc.gnome.org. I've been sloughing off on creating agendas lately since a lot of stuff is already in motion and few general discussions/directions need to be made right now. Come on in to #a11y, however, and ping us if we're around. Thanks Shaun! Will Shaun McCance wrote: On Sun, 2009-08-23 at 11:54 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: Thanks everyone! Based upon the responses, I think the gap that would have no alternative accessible solution would be if yelp chose to ship with a WebKit-only solution. The unfortunate thing about this is that yelp is quite important for our users. Many of them are coming to GNOME for the first time - some from another platform and others because this is their first exposure to a graphical desktop. The documentation available via yelp helps these users find their way through important information, such as keyboard access, customization for fonts/colors/icons, how to use a specific application, etc. Making documentation inaccessible or otherwise very difficult to obtain is a serious regression. It would be something that could potentially keep new users away from GNOME and push existing ones back to the platforms they came from. In other words, access to documentation is a critical component of the GNOME platform. So...I'd like to appeal to the yelp developers to keep the accessible solution turned on by default for 2.28 while we continue our work towards WebKit a11y for GNOME 3.0. Done. Yelp 2.28 will use Gecko. Willie, I have a number of documentation-related things I'd like to discuss with some accessibility experts. Two things come to mind right now, but I know there's more: 1) We'd like to make the HTML output of our documentation better for screen readers, including having aural CSS rules if those would help. But without accessibility experts, I'd just be guessing. 2) With the new topic-based Mallard help, it will be possible for us to tailor help to individual users better. I'd like to talk to some accessibility people about what help topics we should provide for accessibility, and how we might be able to detect that users are using accessibility tools and make those topics more discoverable to those users. Could we do an IRC meeting some time with my team and yours? Or perhaps we could have a face-to-face. Will you be at the Boston Summit? -- Shaun ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-l...@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Metacity end of life
From http://blogs.gnome.org/metacity/2009/07/06/the-future-of/ It’s fairly clear now that Mutter will be an alternative window manager in GNOME 2.28, and the only window manager in GNOME 3. It is therefore taking over the reins from Metacity 2: effectively, Mutter is Metacity 3. Translation: There is work to do with respect to a11y. Is anyone out there able to jump in and help? Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Metacity end of life
Hi All: WOW. I'm impressed. I received a lot of replies about this from people wondering how they can help. What a great community we have! There are a number of different variables to take in consideration: 1) The existing metacity that ships with GNOME today. It works fine and there's no need to continue investing in a11y support/maintenance for it (thanks, metacity maintainers, for your hard work!). 2) Mutter itself, which is a branch of metacity to add clutter-based compositing (as I understand it). One of the things needed here is testing to see if the GUI provides the same level of a11y support as the existing metacity shipping with GNOME. This includes testing keyboard traversal to switch between windows/panels/etc., testing with Accerciser to determine the same (or very similar) events are issued when one presses Alt+Tab, etc. Note that the gnome-mag and composite issues are known and are being worked on via a potential plug in to GNOMEShell. 3) GNOMEShell (http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell). This is currently a plugin for Mutter, and is likely to define a whole new way users interact with the desktop for GNOME 3.0. It seems an a11y evaluation (and perhaps recommendations) for keyboard traversal, theming, AT-SPI support, etc. The base knowledge you will need for the above is likely to be: * the ability to build/install/run components from source * the ability to recover from screwing up your system while attempting the above * a fundamental knowledge of GNOME keyboard commands * knowledge of accerciser and the AT-SPI, though you can learn on the fly * BONUS (and possible substitution for accerciser): knowledge of the GNOME accessibility support: AccessX, theming (e.g., high contrast large print inverse), GOK, Dasher, Orca, MouseTweaks, MouseTrap, etc. When approaching new things like this, I tend to examine things from very coarse granularity down to finer granularity: 1) Can the user interact with it via the keyboard alone? 2) Does it honor theming? 3) Does it expose itself via the AT-SPI (can I see it in accerciser)? 4) Can I get to all the GUI components via accerciser? 5) Do the GUI components appear to present the right AT-SPI role and can I get to useful text, a name, a relation (e.g., labelled by), etc.? 6) Do the GUI components emit the expected events when I tab to them and/or activate them? For example, do I get focus events? Do I get state changed events? 7) At this point, we start tweaking things to make the app work nicer with assistive technologies. So, some level of understanding where mutter stands with respect to accessibility would be helpful. The same goes for GNOMEShell. In addition, a better understanding of the various toolkits that seem to be emerging on top of clutter would be useful. As for where to place what we've learned, I would suggest working with the project teams themselves to get the accessibility info stored with the project (i.e., put it with the project's WIKI instead of solely on the accessibility WIKI). By doing things that way, we will tend to isolate ourselves less and we will also continue to keep a11y at the fronts of the minds of mainstream developers. Many many thanks again to all of those who raised their hands, Will On 08/12/09 10:23 AM, Willie Walker wrote: From http://blogs.gnome.org/metacity/2009/07/06/the-future-of/ It’s fairly clear now that Mutter will be an alternative window manager in GNOME 2.28, and the only window manager in GNOME 3. It is therefore taking over the reins from Metacity 2: effectively, Mutter is Metacity 3. Translation: There is work to do with respect to a11y. Is anyone out there able to jump in and help? Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Change #a11y meeting time?
Hi All: I'm not going to be able to attend tomorrow's meeting due to business travel. I will be back in town next week, though. Will Halim Sahin wrote: Hello, On Do, Aug 06, 2009 at 07:28:45 -0400, Willie Walker wrote: I'd like to propose moving the meeting to 14:00UTC on Mondays. That would be: Yea ACK. Regards Halim ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Change #a11y meeting time?
Hi All: We've been doing the GNOME Accessibility IRC meetings at 02:00 UTC on Tuesdays for the past several months. Since we are a worldwide group, that time obviously works well for some people and poorly for others. I've had requests to flip the time by about 12 hours, including members of my family. :-) I'd like to propose moving the meeting to 14:00UTC on Mondays. That would be: 7:00AM San Francisco 9:00AM Houston 10:00AM New York 3:00PM London 4:00PM Germany 10:00PM Beijing 2:00AM Auckland 12:00AM Sydney (Midnight Mon-Tue) We've been quite lax with the agendas (my apologies). I'll begin working on tighter agendas ahead of time so people in less-accommodating time zones can determine if they should hit the pillow or the keyboard. Just a note where one of my focal points will be for the next few months: the AT-SPI/D-Bus work is reaching a point where it can be tested by a larger audience. There are still some big chunks to do, but I'm hoping we can get those big chunks done by the GNOME 2.29.1 timeframe. At that point, we're all going to need to start testing the heck out of this for GNOME 2.30 to help ensure a smooth transition. Other things, such as GNOME Boston, conference presence, etc., etc., will also still apply. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Will not be at this week's meeting.
Thanks Luke! The meetings have been relatively quiet these days, and I'm also pretty tired by that time of day. I'm curious if people would be interested in flipping the meeting time back 12 hours or so to accommodate our peers in western Europe. One of my big focal points for the upcoming months is going to be figuring out how we can finish the Bonobo Deprecation work (http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BonoboDeprecation). Will Luke Yelavich wrote: Hi all Just writing to let you know that I will not be at this meeting. I am in Ireland this week for an Ubuntu development sprint, and therefore will be asleep when the meeting is scheduled to run. I should be back on board next week. Luke ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Team updates needed for the 2009 Q2 GNOME Quarterly Report by July 31st
Hi All: Here's what I plan to send to Stormy this Friday. Please send comments if you have them. GNOME Accessibility Updates for Q2: * We started a GNOME component in the HFOSS project: http://2009.hfoss.org/GNOME. Three students (Rachel Foecking - Trinity College '11, Ryan Gee - Wesleyan '11, and Ted Nichols - Wesleyan '10) worked on MouseTrap and VizAudio under the mentorship of GNOME community members Flavio Percoco Premoli and Bryen Yunashko. The projects went well, resulting in many improvements to MouseTrap and a potential new module for libcanberra. The HFOSS organizers would also like to continue the relationship with GNOME for next year's HFOSS summer institute. * We created a small GOPA-sized grant for Joanmarie Diggs to work with Xan Lopez on WebKit accessibility. It's a difficult problem but the work is proceeding at a fast pace with strong positive cooperation between Xan and Joanmarie. * Willie Walker (Sun and GNOME Accessibility Lead), Li Yuan (Sun), Ke Wang (Sun), Mark Doffman (Codethink), Rob Taylor (Codethink), Mike Gorse (Novell) and Brad Taylor (Novell) held an AT-SPI/D-Bus planning meeting and code sprint. They made significant progress on getting closer to the Bonobo/CORBA deprecation goal for GNOME 3.0. The Bonobo/CORBA deprecation status page is at http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BonoboDeprecation, with specific AT-SPI/D-Bus work being tracked via the Linux Foundation: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/ATK/AT-SPI/AT-SPI_on_D-Bus * Ke Wang from Sun has made great progress on the Java ATK Wrapper which will supplant the Java/CORBA implementation for AT-SPI. * Brad Taylor and Mike Gorse made great progress on Mono accessibility for GNOME. * Luke Yelavich from Canonical started the Speech Dispatcher work with a goal of supplanting gnome-speech for GNOME 3.0. * Joseph Scheuhammer from the Adaptive Technology Research Centre at the University of Toronto has begun working on magnification. We intend on collaborating closely with Owen Taylor from Red Hat to integrate magnification into GNOME Shell and ultimately supplant gnome-mag for GNOME 3.0. * Community member API from Igalia released the first version of Cally (Clutter Accessibility Implementation Library): http://blogs.igalia.com/apinheiro/2009/07/20/cally-moved-to-clutter-repository-and-other-news/ * The GNOME desktop automation project (Mago - https://launchpad.net/mago) has made excellent progress using the Accessibility layer. * The GNOME Accessibility projects have continued to be actively developed, enhanced, and maintained, including: http://live.gnome.org/Orca http://live.gnome.org/MouseTweaks http://live.gnome.org/MouseTrap http://live.gnome.org/Gok http://live.gnome.org/Accerciser http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/ For the upcoming quarters, we plan on focusing on the Bonobo/CORBA deprecation goal for GNOME 3.0. Willie Walker will also be representing the GNOME project at Jornadas Regionales de Software Libre this fall: http://jornadas.opencommunity.cl/en/ Will Stormy Peters wrote: Just a reminder that the updates are due this Friday. If you could also include a short blurb on what you plan to do in Q3 (as well as what you did in Q2), I think that would be really interesting to many folks. It doesn't have to really detailed, just in general, Plan to work on new website design, artwork for the new slideset templates and layout for GNOME business cards. Remember that the stuff you did in July is stuff you plan to do in Q3. :) Thanks, Stormy On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Stormy Peters sto...@gnome.org mailto:sto...@gnome.org wrote: I'd like to start publishing GNOME Foundation Quarterly reports. I think they will help: * communicate what we are doing to our membership * communicate what we are doing to companies interested in GNOME technologies * attract more members * make the annual report easier to write :) * recruit more people to help out on the teams * help our sponsors show their companies how well invested their money is (FYI, I think KDE does a good job with their quarterly reports, see http://ev.kde.org/reports/ev-quarterly-2008Q3-Q4.pdf for an example.) I'm nominating the following people to write a short update about what the teams accomplished in Q2 (March-June) of 2009. It doesn't need to be long or fancy. I can help write/wordsmith if needed. If you can't do it, I'd appreciate help recruiting someone else! * Release Team -- Vincent Untz * Art Team -- Andreas Nilsson * Accessibility Team -- Willie Walker * Usability Team -- Calum Benson * Bug Squad -- Andre Klapper * Marketing Team -- Paul Cutler * Sysadmin Team -- John Carr * Mobile -- Dave Neary * Website -- Lucas Rocha * Localization
Accessibility Team Updates for Q2 (March-June) of 2009.
Hi All: Stormy would like to start publishing GNOME Foundation Quarterly reports, which I think is a great idea. To start, she's asking for Q2 (March-June 2009) updates. I need your help accurately representing the progress made in Q2. Here's what I have so far: * Had the AT-SPI/D-Bus summit * Saw great progress on the Java ATK Wrapper * Saw great progress on Mono a11y for GNOME * Began the WebKit a11y work * Started the HFOSS program for MouseTrap and VizAudio * Started the Speech Dispatcher work * Addressed a number of GNOME Goals regarding migrating from a number of this thing to that thing items. This is pretty awesome stuff. There were also a number of milestones in individual projects, which I don't have the complete details on. Please send me items I have missed so we can have a good update for Q2. Thanks! Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Accessibility Team Updates for Q2 (March-June) of 2009.
I'll add in stuff for Orca later (since I know it so well). :-) But, I do need stuff from other projects. Thanks! Will Steve Lee wrote: Hey That's amazing, though I don't see anything there for Orca. BTW I read the GNOME report and was delighted by the high profile of the accessibility work and that Stormy's very first sentence mentioned it. Awesome. Steve Lee 2009/7/22 Willie Walker william.wal...@sun.com: Hi All: Stormy would like to start publishing GNOME Foundation Quarterly reports, which I think is a great idea. To start, she's asking for Q2 (March-June 2009) updates. I need your help accurately representing the progress made in Q2. Here's what I have so far: * Had the AT-SPI/D-Bus summit * Saw great progress on the Java ATK Wrapper * Saw great progress on Mono a11y for GNOME * Began the WebKit a11y work * Started the HFOSS program for MouseTrap and VizAudio * Started the Speech Dispatcher work * Addressed a number of GNOME Goals regarding migrating from a number of this thing to that thing items. This is pretty awesome stuff. There were also a number of milestones in individual projects, which I don't have the complete details on. Please send me items I have missed so we can have a good update for Q2. Thanks! Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Who's going to GUADEC?
Hey All: Who here will be at GUADEC? If you're going, let me know because there are some accessibility topics that would make for some opportunistic 'hallway' conversations. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: ANNOUNCE: Java ATK Wrapper 0.27.2
Hi Joanie: The instructions are similar to the Java Access Bridge for GNOME, but easier. Since the Java ATK Wrapper is not using Java/CORBA, we don't need the ~/.orbitrc nonsense. But, we still need to set up the accessibility.properties and java-atk-wrapper.jar files. On OpenSolaris, what you can do is build/install the wrapper with the following options sent to ./autogen.sh: --prefix=/usr --with-java-home=/usr/java After you install, in /usr/java/jre/lib, make a symbolic link to /usr/share/jar/accessibility.properties and in /usr/java/jre/lib/ext, make a symbolic link to /usr/share/jar/java-atk-wrapper.jar. NOTE TO EVERYONE, especially Orca users: this is a work in progress. More work is needed in the wrapper and scripting is likely to be needed in Orca. However, my early tests seem to indicate that dumping the Java/CORBA implementation in favor of a direct JNI layer to ATK seems to yield more reliability and better performance. Way to go, Ke! Will Joanmarie Diggs wrote: Hi Ke. If it wouldn't be too much trouble, would you please post instructions for properly installing the Java ATK Wrapper in OpenSolaris 2009.06 because I'm obviously missing something: $ jcontrol Exception in thread main java.awt.AWTError: Assistive Technology not found: org.GNOME.Accessibility.AtkWrapper at java.awt.Toolkit.loadAssistiveTechnologies(Toolkit.java:773) at java.awt.Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit(Toolkit.java:859) at java.awt.Window.getToolkit(Window.java:1167) at java.awt.Window.init(Window.java:394) at java.awt.Window.init(Window.java:432) at java.awt.Frame.init(Frame.java:403) at java.awt.Frame.init(Frame.java:368) at javax.swing.JFrame.init(JFrame.java:163) at com.sun.deploy.panel.ControlPanel.init(ControlPanel.java:43) at com.sun.deploy.panel.ControlPanel.main(ControlPanel.java:347) Fortunately, I did create a new BE in which to attempt the install, so I'm all set to start fresh. :-) Thanks in advance! Take care. --joanie On Thu, 2009-06-11 at 13:30 +0800, Ke Wang wrote: What's JAW? Java ATK Wrapper is a implementation of ATK by using JNI technic. It converts Java Swing events into ATK events, and send these events to ATK-Bridge. JAW is part of the Bonobo deprecation project. It will replace the java-access-bridge after being fully tested. By talking to ATK-Bridge, it keeps itself from being affected by the change of underlying communication mechanism. Where? = The git repo is at: git clone git://git.gnome.org/java-atk-wrapper The tarballs are here: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/java-atk-wrapper/ Reporting bugs == URL: http://bugzilla.gnome.org Classification: Platform Application: at-spi Component: Java ATK Wrapper Important changes * Fixed crash bug caused by signal emission * Fixed crash bug caused by atk-bridge _atexit function Thanks! Ke ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: gnome integrity problem
Hi: This sounds like it might be an issue with the speech/audio interface. If you run the test-speech application, are you able to make it speak? If not, then speech may be screwed up on your operating system distribution. :-( Will On 06/07/09 01:49, Jude DaShiell wrote: I did the recommened steps to get gnome installed and orca running over here and discovered even after orca gets configured and I log into gnome, orca will not speak. Alsa was used to play wav files on this computer earlier under gnome and those sounded fine. So, here's the gnome integrity problem. I don't know that I have a complete enough gnome to run orca. So far as I know, no command line utility exists to do this checking for me and either return gnome is fully installed or gnome is partially installed and these are the packages to install to make gnome fully installed. That would make life easier; maybe call it gnome-tracker. ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: HFOSS Projects: VizAudio, MouseTrap, Dots
Welcome Ted! It was great meeting you all yesterday. You're smart folks and there's no doubt you're going to get some good work done. For everyone else on the gnome-accessibility-list --- please welcome the HFOSS folks. Let's do our best to help them enter the GNOME accessibility community and set them up for success. I'm excited, :-) Will Ted Nichols wrote: Hi everyone, Writing in to say that we are ready to work on these proposals! We have eight full weeks left in the program and need to decide what tasks can be accomplished for each project in that time. We'd like to work on as much as possible, but we don't want to promise more than we can deliver. Will Walker came and gave a talk about GNOME a11y yesterday, which was great. We're sending e-mails to the project mentors individually, but we wanted to say hello! --Ted Nichols, HFOSS Intern ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: VirtualBox and vm ware
The VirtualBox GUI is currently based upon Qt, which is not accessible via the AT-SPI. Work is underway to remedy the Qt accessibility situation: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/ATK/AT-SPI/AT-SPI_on_D-Bus Francisco J. Vázquez Araújo has created a GTK+ wrapper for VirtualBox, but I'm not sure how feature complete it is: http://www.xente.mundo-r.com/narf/vboxgtk/ Apparently, the command line interface for VirtualBox is supposed to be quite rich, providing features not found in the GUI. Note that this does not mean I support or condone falling back to the command line interfaces as an accessibility solution. Will Calum Benson wrote: Re-directing to GNOME accessibility list, where you may get a better response to your question. Regards, Calum. On 15 May 2009, at 15:42, Giulio Berretta wrote: Hello, i have another question for you! Since few months, I'm using VirtualBox, but its accessibility is very very low... somebody of you uses also vm ware? I never used this program. do you know somethings about its accessibility and its work? When I use VirtualBox, i can't do nothing because the accessibility problem. If a emulator software like it becames accessible, it is very important. Thank's for your attenction. Giulio ___ gnome-list mailing list gnome-l...@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: [Kde-accessibility] KDE-accessibility/Qt AT-SPI
Hi Dan: You can learn more about the Orca screen reader and magnifier at http://live.gnome.org/Orca. I would love to grow the Orca developer community, so please let me know what questions you may have. Will Dan Miner wrote: I'm glad to hear that a common ground appears to be coming out the work. I'm becoming very interested in accessibility on a personal front because I'm nearing the end of my vision. Is there some resources you could mention for a developer starting out on building and eventual coding? I'm a software developer myself and I'm starting to find serious need for screen magnification and reading now. Last time I tried, I couldn't get the latest code to ever build and then no clues even how to get stuff submitted. Regards, Dan Olaf Schmidt wrote: Hi Jeremy, thanks a lot for offering to contribute to KDE Accessibility. As you already wrote, Qt had an accessibility framework that can be used to make Qt and KDE applications accessible with Orca or other assistive technologies. One Trolltech developer (Harald Fernengel) even wrote a D-Bus interface for it: http://labs.trolltech.com/page/Projects/Accessibility/QDBusBridge See also: http://labs.trolltech.com/page/Projects/Accessibility/IAPoke http://labs.trolltech.com/page/Projects/Accessibility/QDasher This interface could be used by Orca. But it would need to be completed and bug-fixed to achieve the full results, and in the meantime, it has become clear Gnome is now also moving to D-Bus for their accessibility framework. It would make a lot of sense to rework Harald's code to use the same D-Bus interfaces as Gnome. The timing is very good to get involved now, since it has become clear at last that a common approach with Gnome is possible. Important decisions about the Free Software accessibility architecture have been made (namely, Gnome's D-Bus move). Gunnar and I spent a lot of time on KDE Accessibility in the past, but we are now at a point where we simply do not have the time any more to continue with this very important work. But I promise to help you as much as I can (by answering questions and maybe by helping with the testing) if you wish to continue with the work started by Harald, Gunnar and myself. Olaf ___ kde-accessibility mailing list kde-accessibil...@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility ___ kde-accessibility mailing list kde-accessibil...@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Fwd: Gnome Accessibility project
Done! :-) On 04/28/09 09:57, Stormy Peters wrote: That would be great! Do you want to write back to Trishan with that offer? Stormy On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Willie Walker william.wal...@sun.com mailto:william.wal...@sun.com wrote: I could potentially do it on site. Will On 04/27/09 16:57, Stormy Peters wrote: Anybody interested? Stormy P.S. Bryen, it looks like Trishan is waiting for you to ping him about the next irc meeting. -- Forwarded message -- From: *de Lanerolle, Trishan R.* trishan.delanero...@trincoll.edu mailto:trishan.delanero...@trincoll.edu mailto:trishan.delanero...@trincoll.edu mailto:trishan.delanero...@trincoll.edu Date: Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:54 PM Subject: Gnome Accessibility project To: Stormy Peters sto...@gnome.org mailto:sto...@gnome.org mailto:sto...@gnome.org mailto:sto...@gnome.org Hi Stormy, I was wondering if it’s possible to ask someone from the Gnome Accessibility group to give a short, remote based, talk/ presentation to our summer group during our orientation period May 18^th – May 29^th . I think it might be good for the entire group to learn a bit about Gnome. Nothing long or fancy, just a quick overview of Gnome and Gnome Accessibility, perhaps something on the technical aspects of the projects; no more than an hour to hour and ½ tops, over Skype or Polycom video conference call? Hope this isn’t too much trouble. I’m still interested in joining the next IRC session. I haven’t received further information from Bryen about the meeting. Thanks, Trishan Trishan de Lanerolle Project Director Trinity- Conn College- Wesleyan CPATH Project Computer Science, Trinity College, Hartford CT. (860) 297 5313 http://www.hfoss.org This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org mailto:gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Fwd: Gnome Accessibility project
I could potentially do it on site. Will On 04/27/09 16:57, Stormy Peters wrote: Anybody interested? Stormy P.S. Bryen, it looks like Trishan is waiting for you to ping him about the next irc meeting. -- Forwarded message -- From: *de Lanerolle, Trishan R.* trishan.delanero...@trincoll.edu mailto:trishan.delanero...@trincoll.edu Date: Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:54 PM Subject: Gnome Accessibility project To: Stormy Peters sto...@gnome.org mailto:sto...@gnome.org Hi Stormy, I was wondering if it’s possible to ask someone from the Gnome Accessibility group to give a short, remote based, talk/ presentation to our summer group during our orientation period May 18^th – May 29^th . I think it might be good for the entire group to learn a bit about Gnome. Nothing long or fancy, just a quick overview of Gnome and Gnome Accessibility, perhaps something on the technical aspects of the projects; no more than an hour to hour and ½ tops, over Skype or Polycom video conference call? Hope this isn’t too much trouble. I’m still interested in joining the next IRC session. I haven’t received further information from Bryen about the meeting. Thanks, Trishan Trishan de Lanerolle Project Director Trinity- Conn College- Wesleyan CPATH Project Computer Science, Trinity College, Hartford CT. (860) 297 5313 http://www.hfoss.org This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Potential GUADEC/Akademy a11y BOF? (was Re: Planning for GNOME 3.0)
Hi All: Tomorrow (Friday) is the deadline for GUADEC/Akademy submissions. I'm curious if there would be interest in setting up a GUADEC BOF around accessibility? My personal goals would be to focus on three main areas: 1) Bonobo/CORBA deprecation, including AT-SPI/D-Bus, magnification, and speech 2) Alignment with KDE a11y 3) WebKit a11y I think we agree these are all important. But, I'm curious if people who will be attending GUADEC/Akademy would be willing to attend and participate in such a BOF and if we can get critical mass to make them worthwhile. In addition, if the response is overwhelming, should we consider making separate BOFs? Will Willie Walker wrote: I'm really excited about GNOME 3.0. There are a lot of great ideas that people have come up with. As people work on new GUI designs, I request that people engage the GNOME accessibility team on their designs. Accessibility is a big selling point for GNOME and I'd really hate to see it take a step back. Too often, GUI designers and developers forget about important details such as keyboard access, theming, and support for the AT-SPI. It's a lot easier to develop for accessibility from the beginning than to retrofit later. Engaging earlier than later also helps us act more like a team than adversaries. For developers local to the Boston area, I'm happy to take a visit to your sight to go over accessibility considerations and to discuss your new UI's with you from an accessibility standpoint. I promise to focus solely on accessibility considerations and will avoid general armchair HCI quarterbacking. For those outside the Boston area, we can try to find someone to visit you for a face-to-face and/or we could do conference calls with screenshots or just shared desktops via VNC. Thanks! Will (your friendly GNOME a11y guy) On Apr 2, 2009, at 7:17 AM, Vincent Untz wrote: During the first few months of 2008, a few Release Team members discussed here and there about the state of GNOME. This was nothing official, and it could actually have been considered as some friends talking together about things they deeply care about. There were thoughts that GNOME could stay with the 2.x branch for a very long time given our solid development methods, but that it was not the future that our community wants to see happening. Because of lack of excitement. Because of lack of vision. Slowly, a plan started to emerge. It evolved, changed, was trimmed a bit, made more solid. We started discussing with a few more people, got more feedback. And then, at GUADEC, the Release Team proposed an initial plan to the community that would lead the project to GNOME 3.0. Quite some time passed; actually, too much time passed because too many people were busy with other things. But it's never too late to do the right thing, so let's really be serious about GNOME 3.0 now! Let's first diverge a bit and discuss the general impression that GNOME is lacking a vision. If you look closely at our community, it'd be wrong to say that people are lacking a vision; but the project as a whole does indeed have this issue. What we are missing is people blessing one specific vision and making it official, giving goals to the community so we can all work together in the same direction. In the pre-2.x days, the community accepted as a whole one specific vision, and such an explicit blessing wasn't needed. But during the 2.x cycle, with our six months schedules, it appeared that everything (community, development process, etc.) was just working very well, and as the vision got more and more fulfilled, the long-term plans became less important as we focused on polishing our desktop. But we've now reached a point where our next steps should be moving to another level, and those next steps require important decisions. This is part of what the Release Team should do. Please note that Release Team members don't have to be the ones who have the vision; we just have to be the voice of the community. (As a sidenote, the roadmap process [1] that we tried to re-establish two years ago was a first attempt to fix this. Unfortunately, it turned out that we were missing the most important side of things: a project-wide roadmap. This is because a collection of individual roadmaps isn't enough to create a project-wide roadmap.) So let's go to the core topic and discuss what the GNOME 3.0 effort should be. We propose the following list of areas to focus our efforts on: - Revamp our User Experience - Streamlining of the Platform - Promotion of GNOME There are also other potential areas that are worth exploring if there is enough interest from the community. From a release management perspective, there are various questions that are raised in the GNOME 3.0 context. We definitely need a plan to organize the development (see below for details on it), but we might also want to take this opportunity to rethink how we ship GNOME: are the module sets still the best
Re: WebKitGTK+ a11y hackfest
Many thanks Xan! I think this was a very productive meeting. I really appreciate the questions you asked and how you are going about this. It gives me a lot of confidence that you are the right person to be doing the a11y code inside WebKit. Fingers crossed that we can get the base (i.e., no ARIA expectations yet) support ready for 2.28. Will Xan wrote: Hi everyone! Today we held a small a11y hackfest at #webkit-gtk, where Willie and Joanmarie were so kind to introduce to us basic a11y technologies and we disscused a bit the plans for the future of a11y in WebKitGTK+. Here is the log of the event for those interested: http://webkitgtk.org/logs/a11yhackfest-20090409.txt Cheers, Xan ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
WebKit a11y hackfest this Thu April 9th at UTC14:00
Hey All: We've set up an informal IRC meeting with the WebKit folks for UTC14:00-??? this Thursday, April 9th on #webkit-gtk at irc.freenode.org. The goals of this meeting are to help the WebKit folks learn how to use accerciser to analyze the accessibility support of WebKit and to also take a look at how Gecko exposes accessibility information via the AT-SPI. My personal criteria for success will be that the WebKit folks get enough knowledge to move forward with the WebKit/GTK+ a11y work and can get it as close to the Gecko a11y implementation as possible (as least as when viewed from an assistive technology point of view). If you can help, you're welcome to join! Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: screen reader
Hi Steve: I'm sorry I didn't explain the full interaction of the text based setup for Orca. Here's a session: wwal...@laptop:~/Downloads/work/orca/trunk$ orca -t Welcome to Orca setup. Select desired speech server. 1. Fonix DECtalk GNOME Speech Driver 2. Swift GNOME Speech Driver 3. eSpeak GNOME Speech Driver Enter choice: 2 Select desired voice: 1. Callie (en-us) 2. David (en-us) 3. Diane (en-us) Enter choice: 1 Enable echo by word? Enter y or n: y Enable key echo? Enter y or n: n Select desired keyboard layout. 1. Desktop 2. Laptop Enter choice: 1 Enable Braille? Enter y or n: y Enable Braille Monitor? Enter y or n: n Automatically start orca when you log in? Enter y or n: y Accessibility support for GNOME has just been enabled. You need to log out and log back in for the change to take effect. Do you want to logout now? Enter y or n: y Setup complete. Logging out now. Will Steve Lee wrote: 2009/4/2 Willie Walker william.wal...@sun.com: So, you might be running into #2 and the situation where accessibility has not been enabled. In this case, Orca is asking you things such as which speech synthesizer you want to use, if you want key echo, etc. If you answer the questions, then Orca will have the information it needs. You then need to logout and log back in for accessibility to be enabled and Orca should function normally. Would it be worth adding a one line text prompt that explains that at the start of the cmd line prompts? Assuming you know the reason for asking them is as GNOME a11y is off. Steve Lee ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: screen reader
Hi: There might be two things going on here: 1) The GNOME accessibility solution requires you to go through an unfortunate step of first enabling accessibility. 2) The first time you run orca, it will prompt you for your preferences. If accessibility has been enabled, this will default to the Orca preferences GUI. If accessibility has not been enabled, this will default to command line prompts with speech. So, you might be running into #2 and the situation where accessibility has not been enabled. In this case, Orca is asking you things such as which speech synthesizer you want to use, if you want key echo, etc. If you answer the questions, then Orca will have the information it needs. You then need to logout and log back in for accessibility to be enabled and Orca should function normally. Feel free also to join the orca list (http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list) where there's a large community of users and developers that can help you. Will cammina...@fastwebnet.it wrote: I have troubles with Orca because when I start it doesn't compare the application windows but it only starts immediately to speak so I can't set the options. do you have any solution? Thank you ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Fwd: [Usability] The sticky and slow keys dialogs
Thanks for bringing this up. In my opinion, the notification area is a general source of trouble for accessibility. It seems to fundamentally assume the user can use the mouse and it has abysmal keyboard access in my experience. I hadn't realized that a transition had been made to move the XKB/AccessX dialogs to the notification area. Given that the notification area is pretty much dependent upon efficient use of the mouse, and some of the keyboard access features provided by AccessX are geared towards people who have difficult with the mouse, this seems like a pretty bad thing. I'd argue that things should move back to the traditional dialog method. With respect to the Hey, what I've really done is already enable this feature and now I'm giving you a chance to disable it issue, this is kind of a shortcoming in XKB. If I recall, the XKB protocol only sends an event *after* the feature has been enabled or disabled. So, that's why the feature is enabled when the message appears. I suppose a way to handle this shortcoming might be for the system to disable the feature, popup the dialog, and then only re-enable it if the user presses the activate button. Will Calum Benson wrote: Forwarding to the accessibility list, they might have some thoughts on the desired behaviour... Cheeri, Calum. Begin forwarded message: From: Dylan McCall dylanmcc...@gmail.com Date: 15 March 2009 04:39:47 GMT To: usabil...@gnome.org Subject: [Usability] The sticky and slow keys dialogs Hi, I recently filed a fix in Ubuntu's bug tracker, regarding gnome-settings-daemon's keyboard accessibility plugin, which handles the hotkeys to select different accessibility features (eg: Press Shift 5 times). I got it to fall back to its own nice dialog box in the event that the notification daemon doesn't support actions on notification bubbles. (For Jaunty's new notify-osd, for example). https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/342567 This was somewhat interesting, because I suspect few people have used a keyboard accessibility shortcut without the conventional notification-daemon for a while. There is no reason whatsoever to use a libnotify popup with this system as it is, since it behaves exactly the same as the dialog box. The only difference is that the dialog box is actually meant to be this way, whereas the notification bubble being displayed is entirely beyond the intent of that system. (It's an Are you sure? message demanding input, not a notification). Using a dialog box exclusively reveals some issues: * There are no icons for the action buttons. Icons would help give these some context. Deactivate and Don't Deactivate looks a bit weird at first glance. * Right now the system enables an accessibility feature as soon as the user hits its shortcut; the confirmation dialog is really just to disable the feature if it is unwanted. (Unless I am thoroughly mistaken). What if the user hits Alt after accidentally enabling Sticky Keys? I actually did that while developing this and got confused. I was then unable to click on Disable, since my clicking became Alt Clicking. A user unaware of the sticky keys feature would have been doomed. * The dialog can easily get lost in the stack of windows. Try navigating GNOME with your Alt key stuck and not knowing why. Not fun. This dialog needs to be adjusted so that it is always on top or at least visible on the window list. On another thought entirely, I was looking into just stripping actions from the existing notification bubbles and rethinking the things, which would make it nice and transparent instead of being a big brick that flies at the user's workflow. If he wanted to disable or enable the feature again, he could just follow the directions clearly outlined in the notification bubble already (eg: Press Shift 5 times). I think that could even be a decent thing with the normal notification daemon. At the moment the notification bubbles SHOULD be passive; click me if you made a mistake, but otherwise ignore me because I'm just letting you know... but they are not; they demand attention and input. The user is asked to click Activate even though the feature has already been activated, where the real reason is just to get rid of an obtrusive box. Getting rid of those buttons would deal with that issue. I think this stuff could do with some extra pondering :) Bye, Dylan ___ Usability mailing list usabil...@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Fwd: Presentation wanted about accessibility on Linux
FYI... If there is someone nearby Bremen, maybe this is an opportunity for you to talk about GNOME accessibility. Will Begin forwarded message: Resent-From: debian-accessibil...@lists.debian.org From: Thomas Koch tho...@koch.ro Date: March 23, 2009 3:42:40 AM EDT To: debian-accessibil...@lists.debian.org Subject: Presentation wanted about accessibility on Linux Hi, there'll be a BarCamp[1] in northern Germany (Bremen) on may, 23th. The BarCamp happens at the same time as the biggest german church meeting (Kirchentag). The main point of the BarCamp is to inform peoples from church related organisations about Free Software and the possibilities of online collaboration. It would be nice, if we could have a presentation about the state of accessibility on Linux Desktops in this BarCamp. Do you know anybody, who would like to do this? [1] http://kirchentag.mixxt.de Best regards, -- Thomas Koch, http://www.koch.ro YMC AG, http://www.ymc.ch -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-accessibility-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: [Fwd: Please Review: HFOSS Proposal Document]
Thanks for your support, Stormy! Will On Mar 9, 2009, at 9:18 AM, Stormy Peters wrote: Trishan also mentioned that there was a chance we could get 3 interns ... All the interns have applied (and they got a good turn out.) Now they are selecting which interns will be accepted. Also, they seemed to think that some of the students might have some programming experience, which would be good. Thank you! Stormy -- Forwarded message -- From: Ralph Morelli r...@cs.trincoll.edu Date: Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 7:00 AM Subject: Re: [Fwd: Please Review: HFOSS Proposal Document] To: Stormy Peters sto...@gnome.org Cc: de Lanerolle, Trishan R. trishan.delanero...@trincoll.edu Hi Stormy, These look excellent. Very detailed and clear. Trishan and I will add a summary of these projects to our Summer 2009 web site (http://www.hfoss.org/index.php?page=hfoss-summer-institute) and keep you posted on our selection process. It was a pleasure to meet you in person on Wednesday. Too bad we didn't get a chance to chat more one-on-one during the day. I did get a chance to talk some more with Leslie and Cat from Google and they seem eager to work with HFOSS as we try to grow the community. So we owe you a big thank you for helping us get them involved in the Symposium. Everyone I've spoken to thought the symposium was exciting and energizing. They really liked the fact that we were able to bring together academics and FOSS industry representatives. So we have high hopes as we start planning for the next round of NSF funding. Hopefully we can get you involved in that process, if you're interested. Trishan put up a media page with photos, videos, audios of the symposium: http://www.hfoss.org/symposium09/?page_id=133 Is there some way that we can add a link to your Twitter channel??? Thanks, -- ralph Ralph Morelli ralph.more...@trincoll.edu Professor of Computer Science ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Compiz + A11y Discussion
right now. They are very good at talking to applications and handling events. In a lot of cases this is the only place you can do tracking. Communication with applications are key for getting the most useful data. b. The Composition Layer: I believe this is the correct name for where Compiz does it's work. Here is where your actual magnification should take place. At this level you have access to overlaying the screen, video acceleration from hardware and other X11 functions. With better and faster video chips out now, why not offload those movement and other functions off the main processor as much as possible. gnome-mag has COMPOSITE support in it, and is what is used when you are in the full screen mode in Orca. So, things really are being done in two layers -- Orca is doing things at the app layer and it is communicating with gnome-mag, which is doing things at the COMPOSITE layer. 3. Communication between those layers is what I think may be the hard part. I don't know much about how D-bus works, but since it has become extremely standard on Linux systems, It is what will be used most likely. I don't know if it has a real-time priority for handling traffic but it may need it to keep speech and magnification synced up, or even quick keyboard actions. The communication between Orca and gnome-mag is done via CORBA, though Bonobo/CORBA have been marked for deprecation. So what we're dealing with is a bunch of stuff: * There currently is no active maintainer for gnome-mag. This makes it difficult to plan for doing something like migrating the transport from CORBA to D-Bus. * The COMPOSITE extension wants just one COMPOSITE manager. In the gnome-mag case, gnome-mag wants to be it. In the Compiz/eZoom case, Compiz wants to be it. I believe this can cause contention between gnome-mag and Compiz. * IMO, eZoom provides zooming features that work really well for people who typically do not need to rely on magnification. That is, it's good for people who want to temporarily get in for a quick look at something. For people who need to use magnification as their primary means to access the display, however, eZoom lacks a lot, IMO. The path I've been trying to take is this: 1) Don't put all of our eggs in one basket. That is, don't depend entirely on gnome-mag or eZoom. Instead, define a magnification service API that's acceptable to modern thinking (e.g., D-Bus) and put support into gnome-mag and/or eZoom to support that API. With this, we'll end up with a decent API and at least one solution that supports it. Note that I'm not pushing one or the other of gnome-mag or eZoom. Both have their plusses and minuses. 2) Focus a lot on the division of labor as mentioned above. Something like Orca or a standalone magnification solution should be able to operate at the application level and communicate with a magnification service operating at the lower graphics level. The division should be done such that things can operate in the most performant way possible. 3) When working on the API, focus on features needed by people who need to use magnification as their primary access mode. Also, look to support features for highlighting portions of the screen and/or individual objects. Font substitution/rerendering may also be another thing to consider. Now the reality comes in, which is that there's definitely lots of stuff to talk about and design. That's unfortunately the easy part. The hard part is getting people to do the work. We're currently looking at creative ways to resource the effort, and I hope we'll have something soon. Will I hope this made sense. Thanks, Shawn Willie Walker wrote: Hi Bryen: I don't believe the problem is a conflict between Orca's keys and Compiz's keys. Instead, the the two different problems are that Compiz causes events to be delivered in a very strange order when switching between windows and that people have not been successful in using the keyboard to navigate to the top/bottom panels and the desktop. Will On Mar 5, 2009, at 8:27 AM, Bryen wrote: On Thu, 2009-03-05 at 07:57 -0500, Willie Walker wrote: For Orca users, the two main bugs are the Alt+Tab problem that causes Orca to be somewhat silent (http://bugs.opencompositing.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1027) and Ctrl+Alt +Tab not working (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/228343). The issue with Ctrl+Alt+Tab seems to be that Compiz is using it for something else: http://wiki.compiz-fusion.org/CommonKeyboardShortcuts. I would definitely agree that Compiz's hotkey combinations get somewhat confusing and there's no ready tool to list all the combinations that are currently active, nor a notification that the combination is already in use elsewhere. Assuming that there is a scenario in which the default Compiz hotkeys aren't going to change because non-a11y users are used to those hotkeys, would we want something where
Re: Compiz + A11y Discussion
Thanks Bryen! For Orca users, the two main bugs are the Alt+Tab problem that causes Orca to be somewhat silent (http://bugs.opencompositing.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1027) and Ctrl+Alt+Tab not working (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/228343). The issue with Ctrl+Alt+Tab seems to be that Compiz is using it for something else: http://wiki.compiz-fusion.org/CommonKeyboardShortcuts. There's also the issue of magnification. eZoom seems to do OK, but it is also not set up for control from an application like Orca. It is also missing a number of features that might arguably be separate plugins, such as color filtering. The eZoom developer was working on a D-Bus API for magnification, but got sidetracked with school work. It would be nice to try to pick up the D-Bus magnification API as a community project and make it a goal to have it complete before GNOME 3.0. Finally, some sort of D-Bus- highlighting API would be nice to create. This might be related to the magnification API, but the intent is to be able to bring attention to areas of the screen by visually altering their appearance (e.g., a locally zoomed area, an area painted with different colors, an area with a box around it, dimming all of the display except the highlighted area, etc.). Will On Mar 5, 2009, at 12:21 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 04:07:10PM EST, Bryen wrote: Folks, I had a conversation with one of the Compiz team members the other day regarding the state of Compiz and the importance of a11y in it. From that conversation, he advised that now is a good time to give input to the developers about any a11y issues or wishes we have, because they are in the middle of a complete rewrite of Compiz at this time. So, I'd like to get this thread started and gather some input from everyone which I can then pass along back to them. Some questions to think about: - Bugs you've encountered in the past that hampered a11y access. Can't think of what the bug number is, or where it is filed, but one bug is not having window titles spoken when running compiz and using ALT + tab to switch between windows. I can get the details for this one later. Luke ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Compiz + A11y Discussion
Hi Bryen: I don't believe the problem is a conflict between Orca's keys and Compiz's keys. Instead, the the two different problems are that Compiz causes events to be delivered in a very strange order when switching between windows and that people have not been successful in using the keyboard to navigate to the top/bottom panels and the desktop. Will On Mar 5, 2009, at 8:27 AM, Bryen wrote: On Thu, 2009-03-05 at 07:57 -0500, Willie Walker wrote: For Orca users, the two main bugs are the Alt+Tab problem that causes Orca to be somewhat silent (http://bugs.opencompositing.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1027) and Ctrl+Alt +Tab not working (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/228343). The issue with Ctrl+Alt+Tab seems to be that Compiz is using it for something else: http://wiki.compiz-fusion.org/CommonKeyboardShortcuts. I would definitely agree that Compiz's hotkey combinations get somewhat confusing and there's no ready tool to list all the combinations that are currently active, nor a notification that the combination is already in use elsewhere. Assuming that there is a scenario in which the default Compiz hotkeys aren't going to change because non-a11y users are used to those hotkeys, would we want something where if Orca is detected to be in use, then use a different set of hotkeys than what is set up by default? I would presume that an Orca user has quite a few hotkeys of his/her own set up, and thus a more intuitive relationship between Orca and Compiz is needed. -- Bryen Yunashko openSUSE Board Member openSUSE-GNOME Team Member GNOME-A11y Team Member ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: fedora 10 live cd
Hi Chad: You might need to press Return to make the logout happen. It sounds like what might be happening is that a logout dialog is appearing and it's inaccessible because accessibility has not been enabled for the desktop to happen. Pressing Return should activate the OK button of this dialog. When all else fails, you can give the desktop the 3 finger salute: Ctrl+Alt+Backspace. This will kill the X server and take you back to the login screen. Will Shaun McCance wrote: On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 07:05 -0500, chad wrote: Hi i'm totally blind and i tried the fedora 10 live cd but having problems. I set up orca and it said accessability for gnome has just been enabled you need to log out and log in for the change to take effect. I pressed y for yes and i'm stuck can't log back in. Where does it bring you and is the password linux on the live cd? Hi Chad, You'll probably have better luck asking on gnome-accessibility-list. I've CC'd that list with your question. Accessibility folks, please CC Chad on responses. -- Shaun ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: fedora 10 live cd
Hi Janina: Two longish comments... :-) 1) The optimal situation is that one would not have to go through the silly enable accessibility process. Instead, it would be ideal if accessibility were enabled by default. We ain't there yet, though, so one has to go through this awkward process. 2) Orca has a feature that allows you to set it up to start automatically on login. This is available as the Start Orca when you login checkbox in the preferences GUI, and we've recently added a Automatically start orca when you log in? question to the text based setup. We keep the autostart off by default, however, because people have reported issues with how accessibility has been integrated into some operating system distributions. Hope this helps, Will Janina Sajka wrote: Hi Will and All: Let me ask this here before I take this issue to the Fedora Live CD list, where I'm also subscribed ... Booting the Fedora Live CD, one can launch orca from an Alt+F2 dialog, but this is the orca setup that requires gnome restart. My experience with it is that it talks as one would expect--if it talks, a question of audio driver support, I suppose. However, after gnome restarts, the user must again issue Alt+F2 and restart orca by hand. My experience is that, if the setup process works, one can successfully run the Fedora Live image with orca. But it seems unfortunate to have to reissue the Alt+F2 command. Shouldn't orca simply start on gnome restart? Is this a Fedora bug? Or a GNOME bug? I'm particularly interested as SpeakupModified.Org is looking at enhancing the Fedora Live image expressly for Orca mediated Fedora installations. Janina Willie Walker writes: Hi Chad: You might need to press Return to make the logout happen. It sounds like what might be happening is that a logout dialog is appearing and it's inaccessible because accessibility has not been enabled for the desktop to happen. Pressing Return should activate the OK button of this dialog. When all else fails, you can give the desktop the 3 finger salute: Ctrl+Alt+Backspace. This will kill the X server and take you back to the login screen. Will Shaun McCance wrote: On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 07:05 -0500, chad wrote: Hi i'm totally blind and i tried the fedora 10 live cd but having problems. I set up orca and it said accessability for gnome has just been enabled you need to log out and log in for the change to take effect. I pressed y for yes and i'm stuck can't log back in. Where does it bring you and is the password linux on the live cd? Hi Chad, You'll probably have better luck asking on gnome-accessibility-list. I've CC'd that list with your question. Accessibility folks, please CC Chad on responses. -- Shaun ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: WebKit a11y hack fest?
Hey All: There are at least two things of importance: 1) How complete and accurate is the WebKit support for AT-SPI? 2) How complete and accurate is the WebKit support for ARIA? We definitely need both. So...let's talk about the hackfest some more. Who can help us get in touch with the WebKit folks that can make changes and checkins to the WebKit sources, and when are people available? BTW, I'm thinking about doing this as an online thing rather than face-to-face unless there happens to be an opportunity for us all to get together (e.g., CSUN). Will Jonas Klink wrote: Yes, I think this is a good idea. A first step that would be very valuable for contributors to WebKit ARIA would be to just have an overview of what is done, what's being implemented, and what's up for grabs. - Jonas On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Marco Zehe marco.z...@googlemail.com mailto:marco.z...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi folks, I just ran a few codetalks.org http://codetalks.org tests using VoiceOver and Safari 4 beta on Mac OS. Like David said, basic ARIA support is there, but it still has ways to go. Also, I believe for some of this to fully work, VoiceOver needs to be adapted as well. For example, more complex widgets like tab panels, trees, grids etc. don't get recognized. Sliders are recognizedhalf-way (the fact that they're horizontal is conveyed, but the slider is unknown). Marco Am 25.02.2009 um 15:53 schrieb David Bolter: We could start a conversation on http://groups.google.ca/group/aria-ua-impl (?) -- but we might want to have a time window in mind. Safari now has some ARIA support... does anyone know if that is upstream? cheers, David Willie Walker wrote: Thanks David! Can you also get us in touch with the WebKit folks working on WebKit a11y? Will David Bolter wrote: I can offer to be on a channel, depending on time/date. cheers, David Willie Walker wrote: My idea situation is this: 1) On the WebKit side: people that know the WebKit a11y code and who can also help us compile WebKit and run the sample WebKit apps. 2) On our side: people that can compile the WebKit code and who are familiar with AT-SPI as well as what Gecko exposes via the AT-SPI. Those involved should also be able to run accerciser, run Orca, etc. We may also look to Eitan to help us with Speclenium. The main goals would be: 1) Get an idea of where WebKit a11y is at. 2) Help GNOME folks figure out how to build/test WebKit a11y. 3) Help train the WebKit folks on using a11y tools to test their implementation and learn what is expected. Ideally, the process will result in the WebKit folks getting a better understanding of a11y and getting more information to test/debug their a11y implementation. This is the optimal way to help close the feedback loop, IMO. Will Bryen wrote: On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 08:48 -0500, Willie Walker wrote: Hey All: I know we're working on a hack fest for GNOME a11y issues, which is an awesome thing. One thing that is getting horrible attention, however, is WebKit accessibility. In fact, accessibility is one of the things preventing WebKit from being accepted into GNOME. The WebKit folks have been making fixes, but we've not been very responsive in testing them. I wonder what people's thoughts are about setting aside a day to try to coordinate time with the WebKit folks to try to do a virtual hackfest for WebKit a11y specifically for GNOME? Will __ I think this is a great idea, especially in showing that we want to step
Re: HFOSS Visual Audio
Hi Vincent: Thanks for the info/pointer. Neat - looks like libcanberra has a way to bind textual descriptions to sound events: http://0pointer.de/lennart/projects/libcanberra/gtkdoc/libcanberra-canberra.html#CA-PROP-EVENT-DESCRIPTION--CAPS I would be interested in talking with Lennert (CC'd) about this. Lennert, would it be possible to create something that could sniff the canberra traffic and allow us to be notified when something is being played and to extract the [con]textual information associated with it? Will Vincent Untz wrote: Hey, (replying late) Le jeudi 19 février 2009, à 13:58 -0600, Bryen a écrit : 1) Allow users to determine what applications send visual events. If I was listening to music, I wouldn't want visual effects happening constantly. 2) Allow for customization of visual event effects. This is important, because like myself, 10% of the Deaf population also lives with Usher Syndrome (visual impairment. I think the best approach is to create a plugin type environment where the general community can contribute by creating unique effects. Examples would be: --Screen dimming flicker --Hard screen flicker --Running lights around the border of the monitor --Graphic popup in designated area of screen (for me, I miss having events pop up in the middle of my screen like on Windows.) --Animated events, such as a snowball splat. Sounds crazy, but its a fun approach. You should probably talk to Lennart about libcanberra (the library used for sound events). It's designed with accessibility in mind, and I'm sure he'd be excited to see someone work on a accessibility theme. I can put you in contact with him, if needed. Vincent ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: HFOSS Visual Audio
Thanks Lennart! This seems pretty interesting and something worthwhile to pursue. Would you or anyone on libcanberra-discuss be able to serve as a technical mentor for a college intern working on this for 10 weeks? Will Lennart Poettering wrote: On Mon, 02.03.09 15:16, Willie Walker (william.wal...@sun.com) wrote: Hi Vincent: Heya, Thanks for the info/pointer. Neat - looks like libcanberra has a way to bind textual descriptions to sound events: http://0pointer.de/lennart/projects/libcanberra/gtkdoc/libcanberra-canberra.html#CA-PROP-EVENT-DESCRIPTION--CAPS I would be interested in talking with Lennert (CC'd) about this. Lennert, would it be possible to create something that could sniff the canberra traffic and allow us to be notified when something is being played and to extract the [con]textual information associated with it? Sure. That's one of the reasons we created libcanberra. Basically all you have to do is writing another backend for libcanberra that deals with sound event the way you want. You can then either use it as an exclusive backend for libcanberra (i.e. so that actual sound is not generated) or multiplex events to your new plugin and a sound generating plugin using the 'multi' plugin. The idea of the properties libcanberra uses is that we can pass as much contextual information from the application to the backend in a simple way as necessary. For example, right now besides the sound identifier and q descriptive text we pass mouse pointer positions (for event sounds that are triggered by a click), the application and window they originate from, an icon, and more. And we always can extend the set of properties. My insight into a11y is minimal though, so the current set of properties only includes what was obvious to me, so feel free to ask for additional properties. Some applications pass more context information then others right now. For example you currently see more of Download completed. than Download of file %s completed. if you understand what I mean. If some tools actually rely on those strings the situation might improve though and folks might get more careful with the properties they pass. Make sure to join libcanberra-discuss if you have any questions: https://tango.0pointer.de/mailman/listinfo/libcanberra-discuss/ Oh, and my name is actually Lennart, with an a, Lennart ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: HFOSS: VizAudio DOTS
Hi Bryen: Before throwing in the towel for the VizAudio solution, I think we should still give the interns a choice, but clearly mark the VizAudio one as one that will have no technical mentorship and that those involved (e.g., the libnotify folks) tend to be very unresponsive to questions. But, in the unlikely event that the intern happens to be very interested and already has a background, then there might be a match. BTW, PulseAudio is still somewhat of a space of serious issue and contention. Right now, I'd hesitate to accept any solution that depends on it. So, I still propose: * Flavio writes up the MouseTrap description * Bryen writes up the VizAudio description * Eitan writes up the Dots description All these need to be clear in the following: * A clear problem statement * A set of deliverables and a measurement for success * A list of the mentors and other resources In addition, we need strong buy-in from the mentors to see the project through and want to help the intern succeed. Having someone sign up as a mentor and then leave midstream really blows chunks for everyone and we need to avoid that. Can you guys all do this? Will Bryen wrote: Alrighty, so we've had at least some discussion on the pros and cons of both proposed projects here on the list, plus some discussions online in IRC. Here's where I stand now. While I personally truly want to see the VizAudio concept get off the ground, its clear its not quite ready for something to be given to HFOSS interns. Primarily the reason is because we don't have a strong technical mentor to offer to the project yet. But underlying, there seems we need to continue to collaborate on how the VizAudio concept gets implemented. Some have suggested libnotify, others have suggested PulseAudio, and possibly there's other good and valid solutions. Eitan has offered a great vision for how it would be used with PulseAudio when he and I discussed the concept yesterday. I must say, despite all this, I'm far more excited about VizAudio after this week. The concept is really beginning to crystallize itself and I think we can make a go of it in the near future once we figure out some of the pieces to put in place. Soon, I'll be on Planet GNOME and will then blog about it to see if we can get even more collaboration from the community at large. DOTS has a greater advantage in positioning itself for HFOSS internship. DOTS has some code already built, plus Eitan would be a great technical mentor. Note to Eitan, you can include more than one mentor so you're not completely burdened with the work. My only concern on DOTS is that it has some limited usage and really needs someone with a braille printer to test out the development as it proceeds. If any of you have access to someone who can offer up their time to test with a braille embossing printer, that would be awesome. Eitan, you'll need to formulate an outline that Stormy can pass along to HFOSS next week about your proposal and what you would like to see the interns be able to come up with. So, if there's no further discussion, I'm putting my support to DOTS for HFOSS inclusion. I think it is a great project and covers a specific need that helps us compete better with other proprietary solutions. Heck, I don't know braille, but I'm tempted to buy one I saw on eBay just to see how it all works. (Saw one for $149 yesterday.) Thanks to everyone for the great motivation we all had for making great and sane projects for HFOSS. Let's keep our eyes open for other internship possibilities and further expand our a11y world. Bryen On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:07 +0100, Flavio Percoco Premoli wrote: Willie Walker escribió: Sohey two interns, three projects. Maybe we let the interns decide what they want to work on? If that's the path we take, let's still at least try to line up a technical mentor for the VizAudio task and a mentor with braille expertise for the Dots task. I agree with this... I mean, we are deciding what 2 interns are going to do in 10 weeks, so could be a good thing to let them chose showing them the tasks of the projects and what they/we should reach in the 10 weeks. I would like to add (and not to create more decision problems =D ) that we could also consider a 10 bugs fixing week, is it possible? I mean, we could chose one of the a11y applications with more bugs (not hard to learn/program) and do an intensive bug fixing on that app. Well, That's just another idea. I agree with letting the two interns decide (if possible) and for that we have to prepare a good document for each project explaining the taks and everything related to the project. Cheers. ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
WebKit a11y hack fest?
Hey All: I know we're working on a hack fest for GNOME a11y issues, which is an awesome thing. One thing that is getting horrible attention, however, is WebKit accessibility. In fact, accessibility is one of the things preventing WebKit from being accepted into GNOME. The WebKit folks have been making fixes, but we've not been very responsive in testing them. I wonder what people's thoughts are about setting aside a day to try to coordinate time with the WebKit folks to try to do a virtual hackfest for WebKit a11y specifically for GNOME? Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: WebKit a11y hack fest?
My idea situation is this: 1) On the WebKit side: people that know the WebKit a11y code and who can also help us compile WebKit and run the sample WebKit apps. 2) On our side: people that can compile the WebKit code and who are familiar with AT-SPI as well as what Gecko exposes via the AT-SPI. Those involved should also be able to run accerciser, run Orca, etc. We may also look to Eitan to help us with Speclenium. The main goals would be: 1) Get an idea of where WebKit a11y is at. 2) Help GNOME folks figure out how to build/test WebKit a11y. 3) Help train the WebKit folks on using a11y tools to test their implementation and learn what is expected. Ideally, the process will result in the WebKit folks getting a better understanding of a11y and getting more information to test/debug their a11y implementation. This is the optimal way to help close the feedback loop, IMO. Will Bryen wrote: On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 08:48 -0500, Willie Walker wrote: Hey All: I know we're working on a hack fest for GNOME a11y issues, which is an awesome thing. One thing that is getting horrible attention, however, is WebKit accessibility. In fact, accessibility is one of the things preventing WebKit from being accepted into GNOME. The WebKit folks have been making fixes, but we've not been very responsive in testing them. I wonder what people's thoughts are about setting aside a day to try to coordinate time with the WebKit folks to try to do a virtual hackfest for WebKit a11y specifically for GNOME? Will __ I think this is a great idea, especially in showing that we want to step up to the plate in resolving the impasse. One question I have. What type of testing do you have in mind? Who would be the testers and what would they need to have in order to provide good testing results? I think finding the proper testers for a11y stuff is always a challenge and I want to make sure we have adequate people around on that day, whatever designated day we all settle upon. Bryen Yunashko openSUSE Board Member openSUSE-GNOME Team Member GNOME-A11y Team Member ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: WebKit a11y hack fest?
Thanks David! Can you also get us in touch with the WebKit folks working on WebKit a11y? Will David Bolter wrote: I can offer to be on a channel, depending on time/date. cheers, David Willie Walker wrote: My idea situation is this: 1) On the WebKit side: people that know the WebKit a11y code and who can also help us compile WebKit and run the sample WebKit apps. 2) On our side: people that can compile the WebKit code and who are familiar with AT-SPI as well as what Gecko exposes via the AT-SPI. Those involved should also be able to run accerciser, run Orca, etc. We may also look to Eitan to help us with Speclenium. The main goals would be: 1) Get an idea of where WebKit a11y is at. 2) Help GNOME folks figure out how to build/test WebKit a11y. 3) Help train the WebKit folks on using a11y tools to test their implementation and learn what is expected. Ideally, the process will result in the WebKit folks getting a better understanding of a11y and getting more information to test/debug their a11y implementation. This is the optimal way to help close the feedback loop, IMO. Will Bryen wrote: On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 08:48 -0500, Willie Walker wrote: Hey All: I know we're working on a hack fest for GNOME a11y issues, which is an awesome thing. One thing that is getting horrible attention, however, is WebKit accessibility. In fact, accessibility is one of the things preventing WebKit from being accepted into GNOME. The WebKit folks have been making fixes, but we've not been very responsive in testing them. I wonder what people's thoughts are about setting aside a day to try to coordinate time with the WebKit folks to try to do a virtual hackfest for WebKit a11y specifically for GNOME? Will __ I think this is a great idea, especially in showing that we want to step up to the plate in resolving the impasse. One question I have. What type of testing do you have in mind? Who would be the testers and what would they need to have in order to provide good testing results? I think finding the proper testers for a11y stuff is always a challenge and I want to make sure we have adequate people around on that day, whatever designated day we all settle upon. Bryen Yunashko openSUSE Board Member openSUSE-GNOME Team Member GNOME-A11y Team Member ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: HFOSS: VizAudio DOTS
Hi All: Bryen - thanks for writing this up. :-) http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2009-February/msg00046.html vs. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2009-February/msg00056.htm I think both have strong positives and strong negatives. It's hard. I think the following considerations need to be made: 1) Is it a good HFOSS project? By that, I mean is it something a relatively inexperienced individual could sink their teeth into and be proud of what they accomplished after 10 weeks? Can they end up with a good deliverable at the end? Can they learn something about a domain they might not have otherwise been exposed to (e.g., a11y, GNOME)? Can it have an impact on the direction of their career? 2) Is it a good GNOME project? Can we get useful code to use in GNOME? Do we have the potential to attract another community member? Will the code have longer term impact for GNOME or the larger a11y community? In addition, even in the event it might be throw away code, can it spur interest in an area, can it cause activity to happen, etc.? 3) Is the project set up for success? Is the task manageable? Can it be done in 10 weeks? Do we have strong mentors in place? What I see is this: * VizAudio has good impact in a space we need in GNOME. As an aside, but not as important, it can also be a visually cool thing to show off. It also gives an intern an opportunity to do a summary of the state-of-the-art, which is useful. We have Bryen who can help with the UI design so we will end up with something that works for at least one user. :-) I don't see it succeeding without a strong mentor or a self-starting student with a strong hacker mentality, though. * The Dots stuff fills a void, but I'm not sure a standalone GTK+ app is the optimal solution. I've spoken with several people in this space and they tend to believe integration with OpenOffice would be more appropriate and would also have a larger impact across multiple platforms. Going the OOo way may be more complex, however, and may not get done as a result. So, I want to be careful about potentially squashing the GTK+ way just because it may not be the ideal thing to do. If the standalone GTK+ app can do things like flush out liblouis bugs, give us a better understanding of liblouis' capabilities, and develop a model that might transfer to OOo, then it would be worthwhile. We also currently have Eitan as a strong and proven mentor. We'd need, however, someone with very strong braille skills to help design the thing. I also wonder if 10 weeks is long enough. Sohey two interns, three projects. Maybe we let the interns decide what they want to work on? If that's the path we take, let's still at least try to line up a technical mentor for the VizAudio task and a mentor with braille expertise for the Dots task. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: HFOSS Visual Audio
Hi All: The HFOSS internships are only 10 weeks and are meant for relatively inexperienced college students. Based upon my experiences with this kind of thing in the past, we need strong mentors and well defined achievable tasks for this to succeed. In the HFOSS case, I believe we're lucky in that the students will have their professors for some mentoring, but we also need strong mentors from the GNOME side. Given this and the capabilities of the people involved, I could see this internship taking a couple different paths: 1. SURVEY/RECOMMENDATION: - Create a survey/recommendation for what can be done in GNOME to bring state of the art support for visual audio. This would include looking at existing commercial solutions (e.g., OSX, Windows, GNOME), solutions currently in research (e.g., TRACE, WGBH), and discussions with end users. The browser itself, such as Firefox, might also be viewed as a space independent of the OS. The survey may also involve breaking the space up into different areas, such as handling streaming media vs. discrete notifications. In addition, some analysis of the technical infrastructure in place for GNOME (e.g., gstreamer, the notification-daemon, etc.) would be useful. The deliverable would be a detailed survey with recommendations for what GNOME, and perhaps the industry as a whole, can do. 10 weeks is not a lot of time for this, but might be something achievable for a motivated and outgoing student. From there, we cross our fingers and hope someone will be there to actually implement the recommendations -- maybe it's something that a motivated professor might use as the core of a grant proposal. 2. HACK/PROTOTYPE - This one basically skips the formal survey idea above and jumps right to prototyping specifically in the notification/discrete-event space (i.e., not streaming media). Look at what the GNOME desktop has now, such as gstreamer, notification-daemon, the alerts and sound effects feature, and how these all integrate with apps like Thunderbird, Pidgin, etc. Work with Bryen to come up with a written design for ways to present these kinds of things visually. Then hack away at some specific solutions, such as Pidgin, Thunderbird, the Battery/Power Monitor, the Network Monitor, etc. With this solution, Bryen can act as a mentor from the end-user perspective. We'd need help from a someone familiar with the way GNOME does audio and the way notifications happen, but a motivated student/hacker might be a self-starter. The deliverables would be a design/style for how to handle visual audio for the notification/discrete-event space, specific examples for some applications, and perhaps a framework for making it easy to support this kind of thing from any application. The framework might also include considerations for integration of things such as closed captioning from streaming media. The benefits of this task are that something actually gets done and it might spur on new ideas. The risk is that it may end up completely missing the mark for the best way to handle this space. Will Bryen wrote: On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 13:58 -0800, Peter Korn wrote: Bryen, It's nice to see thoughts proposals around hearing impairments! Regarding your proposal - either as part of an updated proposal, or as part of the first work you proposed to do, I would like to see: (1) a review of the state of the art in other desktops (Mac, Windows, KDE) for visual events, and (2) discussions/connections with places like the TRACE Center the Nation Center on Accessible Media (NCAM) at WGBH TV around their research in this area. Not that we should simply do as others do, but we should be informed by what others are doing and thinking in this space before we implement something. Well, the inspiration for this proposal actually comes from OSX where they have the built in screen dimming flicker functionality if you enable it. I don't have access to OSX at the moment, so I can't say where exactly you can enable it. On the Windows side, there were some addons I could download to help notify me when email came in. One particular app was imap-notify. In addition to the sys tray application, it also provided a popup window in the center of my screen which was very much a benefit to me with my visual impairment (I have no peripheral vision.) It is the OSX component that I wanted to not only emulate, but expand upon with my suggestions for plugins. I don't have access to Windows or OSX these days. However, you do (judging from the email you sent, heh), so perhaps you could look around and see what XP or Vista has these days and let us know? On the technical side, in addition to the issues you cite around UNIX audio sub-systems, there is also the question of video functionality that would enable some of the user interface you suggest (e.g. screen dimming). Technologies like Compiz
Re: Leaky at-spi-registryd update
Hi Nolan: I wonder if some sort of popup attack might be happening in Firefox and it's causing degradation in at-spi-registryd (just a guess). If you kill all firefox-related processes on your machine when the spike happens, do things end up getting back to normal? In addition, try running Orca from a console and redirecting the output to a file: orca orca.out 21 When you notice the problem crop up, give Firefox focus and press Orca+Ctrl+Alt+PageDown. This tells Orca to dump the hierarchy of the current app to the console. The output will be caught in orca.out and might be informative. Note that you might want to check the contents of orca.out for any private information before sending it to someone. Will Nolan Darilek wrote: On 02/16/2009 12:04 PM, Willie Walker wrote: Hi Nolan: If one of the suspects is FF, I wonder if we might be able to focus on it a little more. For example, I wonder if it might be possible that it is some of the web sites you typically visit and/or maybe some usage patterns (e.g., frequently opening/closing multiple FF tabs or windows). That's one of the many things I've thought of. Unfortunately, try though I might, I just can't seem to come up with a correlation. Last night I noticed at-spi-registryd use start climbing when I was using the totem plugin to listen to a streamed MP3, thought I might have finally figured out the cause, only the memory use kept spiking after I'd closed the tab, and in fact, kept growing even when I did nothing with FF. Just switching between apps could cause its memory use to grow. It's as if the memory use just hangs around beneath 1%, then as soon as it breaks beyond that, it's entirely uncontained and nothing can stop it. Killing apps can make it shrink, but never back to what it was, and it soon starts growing again. And I can't for the life of me come up with one task that reliably gets it started. While still respecting your privacy, are you able to share some of the typical pages you visit in a day? Unfortunately, no. Most of my repeatedly-visited sites are password-protected--LJ, a work-related site, etc. Beyond that it is mostly random. The only site I regularly visit that isn't password-protected is news.thewordnerd.info, my feedreader, but I don't notice at-spi-registryd spikes correlating with visiting that. ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Leaky at-spi-registryd update
Hi Nolan: If one of the suspects is FF, I wonder if we might be able to focus on it a little more. For example, I wonder if it might be possible that it is some of the web sites you typically visit and/or maybe some usage patterns (e.g., frequently opening/closing multiple FF tabs or windows). While still respecting your privacy, are you able to share some of the typical pages you visit in a day? Will Nolan Darilek wrote: Part update, part ping. A couple weeks ago I filed this: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=568803 Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on it? It's still here, it still has me rebooting every twelve hours, it currently has my system looking a bit like a 1970s line terminal with it lagging so badly that it takes 10-30 seconds for the keys I type to speak. :) Currently at-spi-registryd has 20.5% of my memory. By way of comparison, all of Firefox has 21 and Thunderbird has 6.5. Is it not strange that a web browser known as a memory hog is using only slightly more than a process that's supposed to run accessibility? If this is normal, do let me know, but it still strikes me as strange that it happily uses less than 1% for hours then suddenly starts spiking. Shortly after I have to restart my X session or reboot, losing my workspace setup. I've run at-spi-registryd under valgrind. Its leak tool seems to indicate that at-spi-registryd itself isn't leaking, but it does show it using hundreds of megs of memory on exit. It was suggested to me that I figure out how to get valgrind to list all mallocs and frees, but looking through the manual hasn't shown me how yet, and I'm honestly not that great at this stuff, which is why I asked for debugging advice. :) I've tried swapping out apps--Evolution for Thunderbird, Firefox 3.0/3.1/3.2. Yesterday I went without Pidgin for a few hours, and thought that was helping, but soon my at-spi-registryd started growing again. The only thing I've not done without is Firefox, and since the problem doesn't surface unless I've been actively using the box, cutting out FF would eliminate much of my need for active use. I'm kind of at a loss as to what to try next, but I have three less than ideal solutions. 1. Upgrade to Jaunty and hope that fixes the issues. Since I honestly don't remember when these began, it very well could have been with Intrepid. Is anyone running Jaunty regularly? How's it working out? I may ask on the ubuntu-accessibility list since that question is probably best posed there. 2. Switch to the dbus at-spi. I realize it isn't ready for prime time, but if it can run for longer than 12 hours sans the need to kill my X session, I'd consider a loss of some functionality a win. How is this work coming? I recently checked the wiki page and it's still showing last November's update, though I'm following git and notice more recent changes. 3. Jumping ship away from Linux entirely. I know that I'm the only one experiencing this. I know it's strange, and I know that the GNOME accessibility community isn't my personal tech support staff. I just wish I had *some* clue as to why at-spi-registryd is dragging this box to a grinding hault every 12-24 hours. I wonder if the problem isn't at-spi-registryd at all. The valgrind log shows 92 loss records but only seems to display info on a few. I suppose the problem could be in orbit as well, making it even more likely that a switch to at-spi2 might solve this for me. I just don't have a clue. Does the registryd have any way to, I don't know, connect and see what has registered with it? Maybe some app or toolkit has registered 8 million of whatever the registryd registers, and this is eating all my memory? See how little I know about this stuff? :) Thanks a bunch for any help. Looking forward to having a few days of uptime again. ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: HFOSS interns working on GNOME
Hi Stormy: We'll talk about this tonight in the gnome-accessibility #a11y meeting. We definitely have MouseTrap on board and Flavio has worked up a description. The other project ideas may or may not surface, but we'll try to come up with something. Nonetheless, I think the short time frame might still make MouseTrap something that is perhaps worthy of a team internship. I'm looking forward to this internship and think it has great potential. Thanks! Will Stormy Peters wrote: GNOME a11y folks, Did we reach a decision on projects for our HFOSS summer interns? I know we have Mousetrap. They'd like descriptions and mentors to list on the website by early March. Note that on the website, internships are for 10 weeks - not as long as I thought. I will also be seeing Trishan and Ralph in person the first week of March if there's anything in particular you'd like me to discuss with them or ask them about. Thanks! Stormy -- Forwarded message -- From: *de Lanerolle, Trishan R.* trishan.delanero...@trincoll.edu mailto:trishan.delanero...@trincoll.edu Date: Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:26 AM Subject: RE: HFOSS Symposium To: Stormy Peters sto...@gnome.org mailto:sto...@gnome.org, Morelli, Ralph A (E) r...@cs.trincoll.edu mailto:r...@cs.trincoll.edu Hi Stormy, I updated our summer program information page with information from our previous correspondences and the GNOME website. http://www.hfoss.org/index.php?page=hfoss-summer-institute We are planning on at least 2 interns to work on GNOME related project. We would like to put up a more detailed description for later this month, early March, with the following information: Project Title, Mentor names, Short Organization Description, Short Project Description or link to further information. Were you able to get suggestions for projects on your end that you would like us to get involved with; we can discuss the details at the meeting or earlier over a Skype call? I already had interest expressed from a couple students. Thanks, Trishan Trishan de Lanerolle Project Director Trinity- Conn College- Wesleyan CPATH Project Computer Science, Trinity College, Hartford CT. (860) 297 5313 http://www.hfoss.org This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Ideas for upcoming Bolzano GTK+ hackfest
Excellent. Let's add this to the agenda for our upcoming weekly #a11y IRC meeting. Will Flavio Percoco Premoli wrote: El mar, 10-02-2009 a las 17:41 -0500, Behdad Esfahbod escribió: Go ahead and prepare then! /me marks Favio down for the VIP list :P AWESOME! GUYS We've work to do Yjaaa /ME stops spamming. Behdad, Thanks a lot for this. ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Ideas for upcoming Bolzano GTK+ hackfest
Is there a potential schedule for the hackfest yet? Things of obvious interest would be any new visual components being added, proposed changes to existing widgets (including keyboard navigation), etc. Will Flavio Percoco Premoli wrote: I was about to say this... We need to do some meetings to discuss about the things we should talk in this hackfest. I'm asking around looking for sugestions/features and other things that should be present in the next GTK+ hackfest (all related to a11y) Cheers --Mensaje original-- De: Willie Walker Remitente: Willie Walker Para: flape...@gmail.com CC: Behdad Esfahbod CC: gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org CC: Brian Cameron Asunto: Re: Ideas for upcoming Bolzano GTK+ hackfest Enviado: 11 Feb, 2009 21:07 Excellent. Let's add this to the agenda for our upcoming weekly #a11y IRC meeting. Will Flavio Percoco Premoli wrote: El mar, 10-02-2009 a las 17:41 -0500, Behdad Esfahbod escribió: Go ahead and prepare then! /me marks Favio down for the VIP list :P AWESOME! GUYS We've work to do Yjaaa /ME stops spamming. Behdad, Thanks a lot for this. ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Ideas for upcoming Bolzano GTK+ hackfest
Hi Brian: Note that the GTK+ hackfest is more focused on issues that relate to GTK+ and the future of GTK+. It is probably not a good forum to deal with issues where applications are not properly implementing GTK+ a11y features, and other issues which do not relate directly to GTK+. Thanks for clarifying the constraints are for GTK+ only and no other discussion is allowed or permitted. This definitely narrows things, but also opens up some stuff, too. I have a few things that would be great to get a handle on: 1) http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=535827 - the current solution of using environment variables is deemed distasteful by some, but nobody has been able to offer a better solution. Hackers might try to look at this one hard. This seems like an issue that would be appropriate to discuss. Yep - even if the existing 'hacks' include changes in things outside GTK+ (e.g., atk, java, OOo, Gecko), GAIL is indeed part of GTK+ and the module loading is part of GTK+. One thing that might be considered here is whether a11y modules are different enough from other GTK+ modules to warrant a newer/separate way to load them. numerous items questioning the appropriateness of items deleted now that the constraints are clearer It might be good if someone on the a11y team were to review a11y-specific GTK+ bugs to see what issues might be good to discuss. This is definitely a good idea, and is what I mean by open up above. Most of the GTK+ a11y bugs have been pushed aside or ignored, and this might be a good venue to unclog them: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advancedshort_desc_type=allwordssubstrshort_desc=product=gtk%2Blong_desc_type=substringlong_desc=status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstrstatus_whiteboard=keywords_type=allwordskeywords=accessibilitybug_status=UNCONFIRMEDbug_status=NEWbug_status=ASSIGNEDbug_status=REOPENEDbug_status=NEEDINFOemailassigned_to1=1emailtype1=substringemail1=emailassigned_to2=1emailreporter2=1emailqa_contact2=1emailcc2=1emailtype2=substringemail2=bugidtype=includebug_id=chfieldfrom=chfieldto=Nowchfieldvalue=cmdtype=doitorder=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+timefield0-0-0=nooptype0-0-0=noopvalue0-0-0= We can also go through our list of known GTK+ issues to make sure the accessibility keyword is on them. Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Ideas for upcoming Bolzano GTK+ hackfest
Aha - the plot thickens as the situation becomes clearer. :-) OK, so it sounds like if there is a substantial amount of work to do for something(s) related to accessibility where direct contact with the GTK+ maintainers/developers would be crucial for success, then we should start developing a proposal. A lot of the a11y issues specific to GTK+ are bugs that just need warm bodies to give them some love. The one main thing I see as being an issue that needs to be worked out or to at least get some closure on is the solution for http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=535827. That might be something that Mattias, Brad Taylor, and I could do at the RedHat offices in Chelmsford. However... Keeping in mind that we'd like to move to a more proactive approach for a11y rather than reacting to GTK+ changes, is there a way the a11y folks can find out more about future GTK+ plans? Would the hackfest be an opportunity to learn these kinds of things and interact with the folks who will be adding them? Will PS - Regarding Evince - anything we can do to make it accessible would be AWESOME! Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Brian Cameron wrote: At last year's GTK+ hackfest there wasn't a lot of a11y discussion or participation from the people who work on a11y-specific GTK+ features. Since the hackfest is invite-only, I suspect that the right people will only get invited if there is some reasonable list of issues and items to warrant people traveling to attend the event and spending time working on the issues involved. Well, more exactly, people invited are the ones who have a major GTK+ feature in the works already, so we invite them to get face to face with the maintainers and other developers, present to them, discuss any remaining issues, work them out, and ideally get the work merged in. So, *going* to GTK+ Hackfest to start bringing something up is not the best way to approach this. If someone can start discussion about outstanding a11y issues with GTK+ and come up with an action plan, it may justify bringing them to the hackfest to further that plan. Cheers, behdad PS. Willie, I'll send you the Evince write-up this week, really. ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Ideas for upcoming Bolzano GTK+ hackfest
Flavio - you read my mind: http://www.viamichelin.it/viamichelin/ita/dyn/controller/ItiWGPerformPage?ie=utf-8reinit=1strStartCityCountry=612strStartAddress=strStartMerged=comostrDestCityCountry=612strDestAddress=strDestMerged=bolzano;image2.x=0image2.y=0 It sounds like we do need to come up with some important stuff specific to GTK+, though. But, it would be good to have a11y representation there to listen to the discussions of new additions if that were allowed. Will Flavio Percoco Premoli wrote: El mar, 10-02-2009 a las 13:48 -0600, Brian Cameron escribió: Willie: At last year's GTK+ hackfest there wasn't a lot of a11y discussion or participation from the people who work on a11y-specific GTK+ features. Since the hackfest is invite-only, I suspect that the right people will only get invited if there is some reasonable list of issues and items to warrant people traveling to attend the event and spending time working on the issues involved. It would be an honour for me to be there and as an a11y fighter I could discuss some important things, obviously I need an invitation =P If it is possible for me to be there We (a11y group) could prepare the things that should be discussed and I would be the a11y reference in that hackfest. What do you think? Bests P.S: I live in Como, CO Italy ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Ideas for upcoming Bolzano GTK+ hackfest
Thanks for the heads up, Brian! I have a few things that would be great to get a handle on: 1) http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=535827 - the current solution of using environment variables is deemed distasteful by some, but nobody has been able to offer a better solution. Hackers might try to look at this one hard. 2) AT-SPI/D-Bus - the funding deadline is coming up in mid-March. We need people to take a look at this work and evaluate where it is at and what it will take to move it forward. My end goal here is that an assistive technology such as Orca can provide access to both GNOME and KDE apps. 3) Evince a11y - Behdad might be working on getting something going with this, but any effort scoping out the problem would be great. The end goal here is provide decent access to PDF documents. 4) WebKit a11y - while not GNOME per se, it would be great to take a look at where they are and try to connect with any WebKit folks that might be there. The end goal here is to make sure WebKit is accessible and/or at least get the WebKit developers on the path to accessibility. Will Brian Cameron wrote: The second GTK+ Hackfest is being organized in Bolzano, Italy, for the week of April 27 to May 1st, 2009. Since libgail is a part of GTK+, it seems it would be a good idea to get some accessibility related topics included in the agenda. Would people from the GNOME accessibility community be interested in compiling some ideas or features that would be good to include in the upcoming hackfest? If so, we probably should make sure that they are highlighted to Tim Janik or Matthias Clasen so that some a11y-focused people could be invited to attend the hackfest. Thanks, Brian ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Empathy accessibility
Hi Nolan: I don't know the complete details of bug #545282, but you might take a look at the patch in the following bug to see if it might apply here: http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=5914 Hope this helps, Will On Jan 20, 2009, at 3:22 PM, Nolan Darilek wrote: I've wanted to run Empathy for quite some time, especially as its jingle support reportedly works and I'd hoped to use it as an alternative to skype. This seems to be the major accessibility showstopper, however: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=545282 In my brief tests, everything else seems to work. I've been engaged in some low-grade pestering of the Empathy developers, especially as it is officially included in GNOME now and I'm a bit worried about this issue. Asking the developers about this produced a stock answer I seem to get again and again when I file AT bugs against other apps, we don't know how accessibility works, so yesterday I sent a link to the GNOME developers' accessibility guide, and today I decided to look at the issue myself. I don't know too much C, and don't really know GLIB/GTK at all, so am not sure how effective I'll be, but I've really wanted to use Empathy for a while and figured it couldn't hurt to check it out. So, questions: Has anyone taken a look at this? The developer I asked claimed that the bug wasn't on his end but was instead an issue with GTK's tree view. This seems a bit strange to me as a number of other tree views work just fine. Are there any outstanding issues with tree views that anyone is aware of? If so, and if that is truly what is blocking access to the Empathy contacts list, that seems pretty major. Then again, I have seen a similar issue elsewhere, so I suppose this is a possibility. Banshee uses what I assume is a tree view for its list of sources, and this also fails to speak accurate information when they are arrowed between. This seems identical to what Empathy is doing. My initial thought was to locate the point in libempathy-gtk where text was assigned to the contact list rows and set the accessible name of the cell to the text. Seems like this should automatically be done, but I figured helping the process along couldn't hurt. Only my newness to GTK seems to be hindering me. Seems there are CellRenderer classes which, I presume, eventually route the text to a widget on-screen, and there is an update function that I assume does this, but the only widget it seems to hold a handle to seems to be the parent table. If I set the accessible name of the widget to, say, foobar, foobar is spoken when I tab to the contacts list only once, but none of the contacts' names or any text in the cells seems to be foobar. It looks as if these renderers are part of GTK. Is there any way to get the cell to which they are rendering so I can set its accessible name correctly? Or am I completely on the wrong track? :) ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: Summer Interns for GNOME Accessibility
Stormy: This is AWESOME! Many thanks for your promotion of accessibility and for getting GNOME some resources. We should talk about this in the weekly #a11y meetings on irc.gnome.org, but there's a whole bunch of ideas at http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GetInvolved. Some of the things on the top of my list are Evince accessibility and WebKit accessibility. Both require a bit of in-depth knowledge, though, and would require some strong mentoring. Another area, which is pretty cool and could use some help, is MouseTrap. It has a good start, and I'm sure Flavio would welcome help. Other areas include improving the out-of-the-box experience of GOK, helping fix speech, testing, etc. In any case, the above are just quick thoughts off the top of my head and are not meant to detract from anything I neglected to mention. Do you have any deadlines or dates where we'd need to get our act together? Will Stormy Peters wrote: GNOME Accessibility folks, We have the opportunity to have two summer interns working on GNOME Accessibility issues during the summer of 2009. We just need to come up with projects and mentors! Background: At the Grace Hopper conference this year I went to a panel about the Humanitarian FOSS Project, www.hfoss.org http://www.hfoss.org/. As a result I met Trishan de Lanerolle, the project director, as well as Professor Ralph Morelli from Trinity College. The Humanitarian FOSS project is bringing students into software development by appealing to them with open source humanitarian projects. They've had a lot of success over the past two years. They bring all the students together on a university campus, house them, pay them and give them open source software projects to work on. The students have access to each other, professors and remote mentors from the project. Past projects have included working on disaster recovery software, volunteer scheduling software and medical imaging software. Another benefit from my perspective is that the humanitarian aspect brings in people that might not traditionally have been drawn to open source. (They were at the Grace Hopper conference because last summer's group included quite a few women.) Their project is 100% funded by an NFS grant right now although they'd like to have companies fund additional interns in the future. What is being offered to us: * Two interns during the summer of 2009, housed at Trinity, paid by Trinity, with professors to help them. What we would need to come up with: * Projects: o projects that a novice coder could get started on o humanitarian focus (accessibility is good) o something they can make good progress and complete in a summer * Mentors o mentoring is done via email and skype Does this sound like a good idea? Something you are interested in? Thoughts? Stormy ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: MouseTrap's Brain Storm
Hi Flavio: Many thanks for your work to date on MouseTrap! I think the most fundamental thing that is needed is smoothing out the pointer motion when running mouse trap with the screen method mouse movement method. I don't have any great ideas for how to improve this, though. :-( Many thanks again, and Happy New Year to you, too. :-) Will Flavio Percoco Premoli wrote: Hey Guys!!! I would like to create a list of useful features that should or could be added to MouseTrap and I thought that maybe you could help me with this. I also appreciate any feedback regarding to the existing features and Mouse Methods. I know maybe many of you haven't used MouseTrap yet, but at least comparing it to other apps like MouseTrap what would you add or remove? Thanks a lot... P.S: BTW, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
[Fwd: UK Charity to distribute eee PCs with Open a11y installed]
FYI...cool. One of the configurations is Ubuntu+Orca. Will ---BeginMessage--- http://eduspaces.net/stevelee/weblog/498549.html -- Steve Lee Open Source Assistive Technology Software and Accessibility fullmeasure.co.uk ___ dev-accessibility mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility ---End Message--- ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Fwd: [Boston-voice-users] November 11 Meeting Announcement
FYI -- note the comment on the installation, training and use of DNS10 Preferred running on Linux through the WINE emulator. I won't be able to attend. If someone else goes, though, please let us know how it works. Will Begin forwarded message: From: Eric S. Johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: November 5, 2008 4:06:03 PM EST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Boston-voice-users] November 11 Meeting Announcement A quick reminder- our regular meeting is next week: When: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 7:30 pm Where: MIT, Room 2-135 (directions below) Topic: Linux-Capable Speech Recognition Update Susan Cragin will demonstrate the installation, training and use of DNS10 Preferred running on Linux through the WINE emulator. She will also give a speed / accuracy demonstration for text input, using UbuntuStudio (Intrepid). Cragin is a DNS10 application maintainer for WINE. Currently she is responsible for testing DNS10P using daily WINE gits. Cragin also attended the NVRA (National VoiceWriters Association) conference this year in Savannah, Georgia. She comment briefly on that conference, and will discuss the future of DNS10 as a court-reporting tool. Boston Voice Users meets at MIT from 7:30 p.m. until approximately 9:30 p.m. on the second Tuesday of each month. ___ Boston-voice-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.harvee.org/listinfo/boston-voice-users ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Updating the brainstorming list
Hi All: As we discussed in this week's IRC meeting, we'd take a stab at updating the brainstorming list. I took a first pass at it: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GetInvolved For now, the more important thing to me is getting things up to date and making sure the list is more complete. The ordering of things is less important to me right now. Please take a look at the page and feel free to edit it. Thanks! Will ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
