[h-cost] Image search - Romantic period
Good evening, Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really don't need finished until Fall. It's what I'm in the mood for though, so here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly! I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else... He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat. She is wearing a Redingote gown. That is all I have. I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during the lecture and again on one of the exams. On that exam, we were shown the image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment and Key Accessory/Garment. On my copy of the test, I got full credit for Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown. From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of a man and a woman. If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that might fit this description. It's not critical or urgent, but it will probably drive me crazy with wondering! LOL Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period
I found this when I did a Google search. www.blakeneymanor.com Maybe the pictures were taken from this book: All images and text from The Mode In Costume by R. Turner Wilcox, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958 Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Taylor Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:54 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period Good evening, Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really don't need finished until Fall. It's what I'm in the mood for though, so here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly! I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else... He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat. She is wearing a Redingote gown. That is all I have. I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during the lecture and again on one of the exams. On that exam, we were shown the image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment and Key Accessory/Garment. On my copy of the test, I got full credit for Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown. From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of a man and a woman. If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that might fit this description. It's not critical or urgent, but it will probably drive me crazy with wondering! LOL Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period
I have ?just received copies of Fashion in Jane Austin's Time and catalogue of the new Napolianic fashion exhibit.? Both have pics from Bon Temps and many of the illustrations show couples as you have described. You might find your quest in these. kathleen? -Original Message- From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Sent 4/18/2011 3:29:03 AM To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic periodI found this when I did a Google search. www.blakeneymanor.com Maybe the pictures were taken from this book: All images and text from The Mode In Costume by R. Turner Wilcox, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958 Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Taylor Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:54 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period Good evening, Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really don't need finished until Fall. It's what I'm in the mood for though, so here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly! I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else... He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat. She is wearing a Redingote gown. That is all I have. I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during the lecture and again on one of the exams. On that exam, we were shown the image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment and Key Accessory/Garment. On my copy of the test, I got full credit for Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown. From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of a man and a woman. If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that might fit this description. It's not critical or urgent, but it will probably drive me crazy with wondering! LOL Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period
Thank you Sharon. Interesting but unfortunately that one won't work. Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Collier Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 12:29 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period I found this when I did a Google search. www.blakeneymanor.com Maybe the pictures were taken from this book: All images and text from The Mode In Costume by R. Turner Wilcox, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958 Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Taylor Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:54 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period Good evening, Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really don't need finished until Fall. It's what I'm in the mood for though, so here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly! I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else... He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat. She is wearing a Redingote gown. That is all I have. I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during the lecture and again on one of the exams. On that exam, we were shown the image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment and Key Accessory/Garment. On my copy of the test, I got full credit for Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown. From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of a man and a woman. If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that might fit this description. It's not critical or urgent, but it will probably drive me crazy with wondering! LOL Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period
I'll definitely check those out. I woke up this morning wondering if my message was even clear at all. I always wonder when I type too late at night. I am just looking for any images that might fit the description, NOT trying to find the specific image from 20+ years ago. In truth, I could end up looking at the original image and not recognizing it. But any image of a man in a tailcoat and a woman in a Redingote would be just fine. So the sources that you suggested certainly do sound like they have possibilities. Thank you! Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:55 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period I have ?just received copies of Fashion in Jane Austin's Time and catalogue of the new Napolianic fashion exhibit.? Both have pics from Bon Temps and many of the illustrations show couples as you have described. You might find your quest in these. kathleen? -Original Message- From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Sent 4/18/2011 3:29:03 AM To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic periodI found this when I did a Google search. www.blakeneymanor.com Maybe the pictures were taken from this book: All images and text from The Mode In Costume by R. Turner Wilcox, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958 Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Taylor Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:54 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period Good evening, Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really don't need finished until Fall. It's what I'm in the mood for though, so here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly! I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else... He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat. She is wearing a Redingote gown. That is all I have. I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during the lecture and again on one of the exams. On that exam, we were shown the image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment and Key Accessory/Garment. On my copy of the test, I got full credit for Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown. From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of a man and a woman. If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that might fit this description. It's not critical or urgent, but it will probably drive me crazy with wondering! LOL Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period
How about this one? http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Lovers-Morning-Recreation-Sarony-Major-1850.jpg/85px-Lovers-Morning-Recreation-Sarony-Major-1850.jpg From: Laurie Taylor costumer...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 3:22:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period I'll definitely check those out. I woke up this morning wondering if my message was even clear at all. I always wonder when I type too late at night. I am just looking for any images that might fit the description, NOT trying to find the specific image from 20+ years ago. In truth, I could end up looking at the original image and not recognizing it. But any image of a man in a tailcoat and a woman in a Redingote would be just fine. So the sources that you suggested certainly do sound like they have possibilities. Thank you! Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:55 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period I have ?just received copies of Fashion in Jane Austin's Time and catalogue of the new Napolianic fashion exhibit.? Both have pics from Bon Temps and many of the illustrations show couples as you have described. You might find your quest in these. kathleen? -Original Message- From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Sent 4/18/2011 3:29:03 AM To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic periodI found this when I did a Google search. www.blakeneymanor.com Maybe the pictures were taken from this book: All images and text from The Mode In Costume by R. Turner Wilcox, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958 Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Taylor Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:54 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period Good evening, Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really don't need finished until Fall. It's what I'm in the mood for though, so here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly! I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else... He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat. She is wearing a Redingote gown. That is all I have. I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during the lecture and again on one of the exams. On that exam, we were shown the image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment and Key Accessory/Garment. On my copy of the test, I got full credit for Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown. From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of a man and a woman. If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that might fit this description. It's not critical or urgent, but it will probably drive me crazy with wondering! LOL Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period
Wow! That certainly fits the description! The date of the image is right at the very end of the Romantic period, depending on which period dating system you follow, so I can use it. The description that accompanies the image, on the Wikimedia Commons site, does not use the terms tailcoat or redingote, but then Wikipedia and it's off-shoots are not considered the most accurate of sources. Thank you for finding this one. I am curious as to how you found it as I could not use the rpmedia.ask.com site. Maybe the site is down. Anyway, for the sheer delight of looking at other images, I'll probably look some more, but it is nice to know that I've got an image that can work! Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Beteena Paradise Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:42 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period How about this one? http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Lovers-Morning-Rec reation-Sarony-Major-1850.jpg/85px-Lovers-Morning-Recreation-Sarony-Major-18 50.jpg From: Laurie Taylor costumer...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 3:22:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period I'll definitely check those out. I woke up this morning wondering if my message was even clear at all. I always wonder when I type too late at night. I am just looking for any images that might fit the description, NOT trying to find the specific image from 20+ years ago. In truth, I could end up looking at the original image and not recognizing it. But any image of a man in a tailcoat and a woman in a Redingote would be just fine. So the sources that you suggested certainly do sound like they have possibilities. Thank you! Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:55 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period I have ?just received copies of Fashion in Jane Austin's Time and catalogue of the new Napolianic fashion exhibit.? Both have pics from Bon Temps and many of the illustrations show couples as you have described. You might find your quest in these. kathleen? -Original Message- From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Sent 4/18/2011 3:29:03 AM To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic periodI found this when I did a Google search. www.blakeneymanor.com Maybe the pictures were taken from this book: All images and text from The Mode In Costume by R. Turner Wilcox, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958 Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Taylor Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:54 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period Good evening, Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really don't need finished until Fall. It's what I'm in the mood for though, so here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly! I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else... He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat. She is wearing a Redingote gown. That is all I have. I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during the lecture and again on one of the exams. On that exam, we were shown the image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment and Key Accessory/Garment. On my copy of the test, I got full credit for Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown. From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of a man and a woman. If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that might fit this description. It's not critical or urgent, but it will probably drive me crazy with wondering! LOL Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Modesty issues with the GFD
Gothic fitted dress (after Robin Netherton, I believe), and the problem I'm facing is that the neckline for such dresses tend to be rather open. Now, the friend I'm making the dress for is a devout-but- moderate Muslim you'd normally see wearing a business suit (you know, tailored coat and trousers) and a headscarf, so she has no issues with the rather figure-hugging profile of the dress, but she needs a way to cover her bosom and her hair without making her look like a spinster when she wants to wear the dress outside her house. We're both convinced that there _is_ a way, but we're not sure which options would have been realistically used by the women back then. The first thing that came to our minds was a button-up hood like the London hood (as in this example: http://tinyurl.com/6kbvprq ), and if it's indeed a good option then most of our problems would just go away instantly. Still, we can't help wondering if there's also some other option available, such as covering the chest with a fichu (would the 18th-century style still be kosher _four_ centuries earlier?) or partlet (which, after all, must have come from somewhere) when she's in the mood to wear the dress with a separate hat or to stick the hood on her head as a chaperon. So, any opinions? And thanks beforehand! One of the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries in the VA shows a lower class woman in a gothic fitted dress with a partlet tied on top of it. Circa 1430. Best of luck! -sunny I'm about to make the kind of 14th-15th century dress that usually comes up in discussions as the ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period
I put 1830s redingote tailcoat into google and then only looked at the images page. It was about 6 pages in. I love the google images filter. It has come through for me on so many projects! From: Laurie Taylor costumer...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 4:04:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period Wow! That certainly fits the description! The date of the image is right at the very end of the Romantic period, depending on which period dating system you follow, so I can use it. The description that accompanies the image, on the Wikimedia Commons site, does not use the terms tailcoat or redingote, but then Wikipedia and it's off-shoots are not considered the most accurate of sources. Thank you for finding this one. I am curious as to how you found it as I could not use the rpmedia.ask.com site. Maybe the site is down. Anyway, for the sheer delight of looking at other images, I'll probably look some more, but it is nice to know that I've got an image that can work! Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Beteena Paradise Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:42 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period How about this one? http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Lovers-Morning-Rec reation-Sarony-Major-1850.jpg/85px-Lovers-Morning-Recreation-Sarony-Major-18 50.jpg From: Laurie Taylor costumer...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 3:22:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period I'll definitely check those out. I woke up this morning wondering if my message was even clear at all. I always wonder when I type too late at night. I am just looking for any images that might fit the description, NOT trying to find the specific image from 20+ years ago. In truth, I could end up looking at the original image and not recognizing it. But any image of a man in a tailcoat and a woman in a Redingote would be just fine. So the sources that you suggested certainly do sound like they have possibilities. Thank you! Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:55 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period I have ?just received copies of Fashion in Jane Austin's Time and catalogue of the new Napolianic fashion exhibit.? Both have pics from Bon Temps and many of the illustrations show couples as you have described. You might find your quest in these. kathleen? -Original Message- From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Sent 4/18/2011 3:29:03 AM To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic periodI found this when I did a Google search. www.blakeneymanor.com Maybe the pictures were taken from this book: All images and text from The Mode In Costume by R. Turner Wilcox, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958 Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Taylor Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:54 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period Good evening, Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really don't need finished until Fall. It's what I'm in the mood for though, so here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly! I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else... He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat. She is wearing a Redingote gown. That is all I have. I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during the lecture and again on one of the exams. On that exam, we were shown the image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment and Key Accessory/Garment. On my copy of the test, I got full credit for Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown. From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of a man and a woman. If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that might fit this description. It's not critical or urgent, but it will probably drive me crazy with wondering! LOL Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___
Re: [h-cost] Costume-Con 29
I am! Kathleen Norvell -Original Message- From: CC2010Milw cc2010m...@cs.com To: h-costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Sat, Apr 9, 2011 5:54 pm Subject: [h-cost] Costume-Con 29 Ok, hands up! Who is going to Costume-Con this year? Henry W. Osier __ -costume mailing list -cost...@mail.indra.com ttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Modesty issues with the GFD
Are either of these the image you're thinking of? http://www.vandaimages.com/results.asp?image=1106BF7074-01itemw=2itemf=0001itemstep=1itemx=3 http://www.vandaimages.com/results.asp?inline=trueimage=1006BF7020-01wwwflag=1imagepos=9 --Charlene On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Sunshine Buchler sunny_buch...@sbcglobal.net wrote: One of the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries in the VA shows a lower class woman in a gothic fitted dress with a partlet tied on top of it. Circa 1430. Best of luck! -sunny I'm about to make the kind of 14th-15th century dress that usually comes up in discussions as the ___ -- If you've struck a knife into someone's back, have the good taste not to report him to the police for unlawful possession of a weapon. -- Maria Luisa Spaziani (1924- ) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Different kind of modesty question
I love wearing cotehardies. However, I sweat under my bosoms when I do wear them. Has anyone found a solution, costuming wise, for hiding this or stopping it from showing through a fitted garment like a cotehardie? Franchesca ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period
I agree - I love the google images filter too. The only down side to it is that it enables my spending hours and hours, browsing and drooling. Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Beteena Paradise Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:10 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period I put 1830s redingote tailcoat into google and then only looked at the images page. It was about 6 pages in. I love the google images filter. It has come through for me on so many projects! From: Laurie Taylor costumer...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 4:04:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period Wow! That certainly fits the description! The date of the image is right at the very end of the Romantic period, depending on which period dating system you follow, so I can use it. The description that accompanies the image, on the Wikimedia Commons site, does not use the terms tailcoat or redingote, but then Wikipedia and it's off-shoots are not considered the most accurate of sources. Thank you for finding this one. I am curious as to how you found it as I could not use the rpmedia.ask.com site. Maybe the site is down. Anyway, for the sheer delight of looking at other images, I'll probably look some more, but it is nice to know that I've got an image that can work! Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Beteena Paradise Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:42 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period How about this one? http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Lovers-Morning-Rec reation-Sarony-Major-1850.jpg/85px-Lovers-Morning-Recreation-Sarony-Major-18 50.jpg From: Laurie Taylor costumer...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 3:22:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period I'll definitely check those out. I woke up this morning wondering if my message was even clear at all. I always wonder when I type too late at night. I am just looking for any images that might fit the description, NOT trying to find the specific image from 20+ years ago. In truth, I could end up looking at the original image and not recognizing it. But any image of a man in a tailcoat and a woman in a Redingote would be just fine. So the sources that you suggested certainly do sound like they have possibilities. Thank you! Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:55 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period I have ?just received copies of Fashion in Jane Austin's Time and catalogue of the new Napolianic fashion exhibit.? Both have pics from Bon Temps and many of the illustrations show couples as you have described. You might find your quest in these. kathleen? -Original Message- From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Sent 4/18/2011 3:29:03 AM To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic periodI found this when I did a Google search. www.blakeneymanor.com Maybe the pictures were taken from this book: All images and text from The Mode In Costume by R. Turner Wilcox, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958 Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Taylor Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:54 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] Image search - Romantic period Good evening, Ok, so it's almost midnight and I'm plugging away on a project that I really don't need finished until Fall. It's what I'm in the mood for though, so here I am, up too late and probably too tired to think clearly! I am looking for an image, probably of a man and a women - maybe a fashion sketch, maybe a painting, maybe something else... He is wearing a clawhammer tail coat, aka dress coat. She is wearing a Redingote gown. That is all I have. I would have seen this image in a Costume History class in 1987-88, during the lecture and again on one of the exams. On that exam, we were shown the image and asked to identify the Period, approx. date, country, Key Garment and Key Accessory/Garment. On my copy of the test, I got full credit for Romantic, 1815-1848, England/France, Clawhammer tailcoat, Redingote gown. From that answer, I drew my conclusion that this picture would have been of a man and a woman. If you're a costume history image fanatic, or a Romantic period fanatic, and this strikes a cord with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts on images that might fit this description. It's not critical or urgent, but it will
Re: [h-cost] Modesty issues with the GFD
On 4/18/2011 10:07 AM, Sunshine Buchler wrote: One of the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries in the VA shows a lower class woman in a gothic fitted dress with a partlet tied on top of it. Circa 1430. I would advise against using that image as evidence for anything, as there are significant dating issues with both the tapestry as a whole and this image specifically. The tapestry itself was dated to the 1430s in part on the basis of costume elements. However, its origins are a mystery, and it may have been made later from a combination of cartoons from various periods. Further, it has been cut up, reworked, and repaired many times in its long life, with large portions of it replaced over the centuries. The image of the woman appears at first to show a fitted dress, but it also shows distinct princess seams (which are otherwise undocumentable till around 1450, and even then not in common wear such as this). The woman's headdress and shoes are of styles closer to c. 1500. So this figure may have been woven from a partly-updated design, or may have been originally woven to show one style and then repaired/redone in parts at later dates, providing a mix of elements. I sorted that much out when I was doing a paper on collars of the 15th century. Although there are tantalizing clues for what appears to be high collars (which might or might not have been separate partlet-like pieces) worn as a protective layer under high-collared houppelandes in the early 1400s, I have seen no other evidence for a partlet of this sort being worn with fitted dresses in this period, and certainly not during the second half of the 14th century, when the fitted dress was very popular. If anyone *does* have any evidence for a partlet-like garment from 1450 or earlier, I'd very much like to see it, as I am still collecting evidence to fill out that paper. By contrast, there's ample evidence for both hoods and wimples to serve the purpose of the original poster. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Different kind of modesty question
On 4/18/2011 12:52 PM, Franchesca wrote: I love wearing cotehardies. However, I sweat under my bosoms when I do wear them. Has anyone found a solution, costuming wise, for hiding this or stopping it from showing through a fitted garment like a cotehardie? First thing is to remember that this style was not created in a world where temperatures routinely went into (or past) the 70s even at the hottest time of year. Plus, best evidence suggests that women then were, on average, far less busty then than they are now. (I do watch for and collect images of very busty women in these dresses, but they are rare.) So the problem is likely, in large part, a modern one. But it's very common for modern re-enactors! These steps may help, costuming-wise: 1. When fitting, raise the breasts up. If you lie down while fitting, you will find that the breast mass spreads out and settle closer against your body. If you fit around that shape, tightly enough that the breast mass stays in that position when you stand up, there is less of a crease beneath the breasts to get sweaty. Bonus: you also have a much closer-to-period silhouette, with an elevated bustline, and breasts will not bounce or fall out of your neckline. 2. Wear a linen chemise, just loose enough to provide some bulk under the bust. You will find it is both absorbent and cool. Bonus: It's authentic. 3. Line your dress, ideally with linen or a firmly woven wool. This, too, will help absorb any sweat that makes it through the chemise. And yes, it's more authentic. Surprisingly, adding the layers of linen does not make the dress significantly hotter in wear; I've found that if anything, it makes it cooler. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII, embroiderer?
Wow, thank you so much, the video was amazing, and what an interesting topic! I wish I could enroll there for a few years Yours in costuming, Lisa A On Sun, 17 Apr 2011 17:33:26 -0700 Patricia Dunham chim...@ravensgard.org writes: Royal School of Needlework, Hampton Court, on CBS Sunday morning today. Took some hunting but I finally found it: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7363014n enjoy chimene ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Different kind of modesty question
Thank you Robin! You are correct about the fit, they belonged to a bustier lady than I. I will put them on and lay down to see where to alter them. Or is there a better way to alter them? I wondered about lining them but the seams are all serged. Franchesca : -Original Message- : From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume- : boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton : Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 12:55 PM : To: Historical Costume : Subject: Re: [h-cost] Different kind of modesty question : : On 4/18/2011 12:52 PM, Franchesca wrote: : I love wearing cotehardies. However, I sweat under my bosoms when I do : wear : them. : : Has anyone found a solution, costuming wise, for hiding this or stopping it : from showing through a fitted garment like a cotehardie? : : First thing is to remember that this style was not created in a world where : temperatures routinely went into (or past) the 70s even at the hottest time : of : year. Plus, best evidence suggests that women then were, on average, far : less : busty then than they are now. (I do watch for and collect images of very : busty women in these dresses, but they are rare.) So the problem is likely, in : large part, a modern one. But it's very common for modern re-enactors! : These : steps may help, costuming-wise: : : 1. When fitting, raise the breasts up. If you lie down while fitting, you will : find that the breast mass spreads out and settle closer against your body. If : you fit around that shape, tightly enough that the breast mass stays in that : position when you stand up, there is less of a crease beneath the breasts : to : get sweaty. Bonus: you also have a much closer-to-period silhouette, with an : elevated bustline, and breasts will not bounce or fall out of your neckline. : : 2. Wear a linen chemise, just loose enough to provide some bulk under the : bust. You will find it is both absorbent and cool. Bonus: It's authentic. : : 3. Line your dress, ideally with linen or a firmly woven wool. This, too, will : help absorb any sweat that makes it through the chemise. And yes, it's more : authentic. : : Surprisingly, adding the layers of linen does not make the dress significantly : hotter in wear; I've found that if anything, it makes it cooler. : : --Robin : ___ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Different kind of modesty question
There should be no reason why you can't do a separate lining and insert it into the dress, blind stitching around the ends of the sleeves and the neck, and doing a separate hem for the skirt. However, if you do this, you need to remember to do the sleeves separately and then hand stitch the armhole of the main dress lining and the sleeve top lining together and to the outer dress at the armscye seam. I suppose you could sew everything together first and then do tacking stitches to hold the sleeve head together, but I personally think the other method is easier. Ginni Morgan Franchesca franchesca.ha...@gmail.com 4/18/11 3:41 PM Thank you Robin! You are correct about the fit, they belonged to a bustier lady than I. I will put them on and lay down to see where to alter them. Or is there a better way to alter them? I wondered about lining them but the seams are all serged. Franchesca : -Original Message- : From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume- : boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton : Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 12:55 PM : To: Historical Costume : Subject: Re: [h-cost] Different kind of modesty question : : On 4/18/2011 12:52 PM, Franchesca wrote: : I love wearing cotehardies. However, I sweat under my bosoms when I do : wear : them. : : Has anyone found a solution, costuming wise, for hiding this or stopping it : from showing through a fitted garment like a cotehardie? : : First thing is to remember that this style was not created in a world where : temperatures routinely went into (or past) the 70s even at the hottest time : of : year. Plus, best evidence suggests that women then were, on average, far : less : busty then than they are now. (I do watch for and collect images of very : busty women in these dresses, but they are rare.) So the problem is likely, in : large part, a modern one. But it's very common for modern re-enactors! : These : steps may help, costuming-wise: : : 1. When fitting, raise the breasts up. If you lie down while fitting, you will : find that the breast mass spreads out and settle closer against your body. If : you fit around that shape, tightly enough that the breast mass stays in that : position when you stand up, there is less of a crease beneath the breasts : to : get sweaty. Bonus: you also have a much closer-to-period silhouette, with an : elevated bustline, and breasts will not bounce or fall out of your neckline. : : 2. Wear a linen chemise, just loose enough to provide some bulk under the : bust. You will find it is both absorbent and cool. Bonus: It's authentic. : : 3. Line your dress, ideally with linen or a firmly woven wool. This, too, will : help absorb any sweat that makes it through the chemise. And yes, it's more : authentic. : : Surprisingly, adding the layers of linen does not make the dress significantly : hotter in wear; I've found that if anything, it makes it cooler. : : --Robin : ___ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the communication. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII, embroiderer?
In a message dated 4/18/2011 9:44:15 AM Central Daylight Time, h-costume-requ...@indra.com writes: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7363014n I saw the segment when it aired yesterday. It was fascinating! Henry W. Osier Masquerade Director North American Discworld Convention 2011 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] a costumer's term question
Cabbage is old term used in Elizabethan era. Modern is scrap. -Original Message- Why are they scraps called cabbage? That's new to me but then I don't know all the terms for costuming or garb technology. Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Different kind of modesty question
There is some argument for afitted canvas like under dress which, though worn for warmth, was aloso closer fitted which there for held the tatas in place and kep the strain off the more fragile outer fabric -Original Message- Date: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:41:44 pm To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com From: Franchesca franchesca.ha...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Different kind of modesty question Thank you Robin! You are correct about the fit, they belonged to a bustier lady than I. I will put them on and lay down to see where to alter them. Or is there a better way to alter them? I wondered about lining them but the seams are all serged. Franchesca : -Original Message- : From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume- : boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton : Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 12:55 PM : To: Historical Costume : Subject: Re: [h-cost] Different kind of modesty question : : On 4/18/2011 12:52 PM, Franchesca wrote: : I love wearing cotehardies. However, I sweat under my bosoms when I do : wear : them. : : Has anyone found a solution, costuming wise, for hiding this or stopping it : from showing through a fitted garment like a cotehardie? : : First thing is to remember that this style was not created in a world where : temperatures routinely went into (or past) the 70s even at the hottest time : of : year. Plus, best evidence suggests that women then were, on average, far : less : busty then than they are now. (I do watch for and collect images of very : busty women in these dresses, but they are rare.) So the problem is likely, in : large part, a modern one. But it's very common for modern re-enactors! : These : steps may help, costuming-wise: : : 1. When fitting, raise the breasts up. If you lie down while fitting, you will : find that the breast mass spreads out and settle closer against your body. If : you fit around that shape, tightly enough that the breast mass stays in that : position when you stand up, there is less of a crease beneath the breasts : to : get sweaty. Bonus: you also have a much closer-to-period silhouette, with an : elevated bustline, and breasts will not bounce or fall out of your neckline. : : 2. Wear a linen chemise, just loose enough to provide some bulk under the : bust. You will find it is both absorbent and cool. Bonus: It's authentic. : : 3. Line your dress, ideally with linen or a firmly woven wool. This, too, will : help absorb any sweat that makes it through the chemise. And yes, it's more : authentic. : : Surprisingly, adding the layers of linen does not make the dress significantly : hotter in wear; I've found that if anything, it makes it cooler. : : --Robin : ___ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Modesty issues with the GFD
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Sunshine Buchler sunny_buch...@sbcglobal.net wrote: One of the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries in the VA shows a lower class woman in a gothic fitted dress with a partlet tied on top of it. Circa 1430. On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Charlene Charette charlene...@gmail.com wrote: Are either of these the image you're thinking of? http://www.vandaimages.com/results.asp?image=1106BF7074-01itemw=2itemf=0001itemstep=1itemx=3 http://www.vandaimages.com/results.asp?inline=trueimage=1006BF7020-01wwwflag=1imagepos=9 Yes, the second one was exactly the image I was thinking of! -sunny ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] a costumer's term question
Apparently, tailors, etc. could, by custom, keep any fabric leftovers that were too small to really do much with - the pieces that were no larger than a cabbage leaf. Have to admit, I can't recall what documentation there may be for this definition... :-( Dunno 'bout anyone else, but I've seen some pretty big cabbage leaves over the years meself. g YiS, Brenna / Genovefre / Rose / Europa -Original Message- Why are they scraps called cabbage? That's new to me but then I don't know all the terms for costuming or garb technology. Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
