Re: [h-cost] Straight front corset (Waisted Efforts)
The problem with starting from a pattern block/sloper is, that a modern sloper is a modern pattern with modern seam lines, etc. Now, you _can_ turn it into a historic pattern of any kind for any era, and some people do. (BTW, the Victorians manufactured a large number of sloper systems, many as cardboard charts, some in metal (such as the McDowell system, which were designed to create a perfect-fitting pattern block the user could adapt to any fashionable variant. AND if the company stayed in business they had to update their sloper shape every few years to keep their customers. Because, the basic bodice pattern shapes and even the number of pieces in the bodice kept changing.) Some people who are really comfortable with one method of producing a pattern, such as using a pattern block/sloper or draping, get so familiar with it that for them it is the easiest way to produce all patterns, and they are sincerely convinced that therefore it is the easiest method for everyone and everything. However, in order to turn a pattern block into a historic corset or any other kind of historic pattern, you already have to know a lot about where seam lines are placed and other aspects of fit. Again, some people do, and anyone else can research this. But for some people, whether they have this information or not, it is easier to start out with a historic pattern that already has the correct number of pieces and correctly arranged seam lines--both very important for a corset--and make the pattern fit their body. In other words, if you are not using a presized pattern such as Past Patterns, you have a choice between altering the style (using the pattern block) and altering the fit (using the period pattern). Of course, a one-size period pattern will be closer to some people's size than other people's. One area of confusion in discussing making corsets is that people do not always say how much they are tight lacing. The more extreme the changes you are trying to make in your body, the harder it is to make the corset work. And yes, fashionable S-bend Edwardians did often pad or otherwise fake their bosoms (with things like a camisole under the dress with rows of starched ruffles in front), and they did sometimes wear hip pads, and there were many ingenious contrivances to create the silhouette in addition to the corset. They also assumed different fashionable postures in walking, standing, etc. The basic high-fashion posture show in period illustrations is to lean forward from the waist, push the bosom out, throw the head back, and stick the behind out; and you'll notice sometimes, they push the back of one hand in the small of the back. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Melanie Schuessler wrote: I've seen this book, and I didn't care for it for the very same reason. It seems counterintuitive to try to make a corset from a pattern block. There's an entirely different principle at work--a different kind of engineering, if you will. It seems to be a book for people who want something that looks like a corset but doesn't actually function as one. Also politely disagreeing, Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Straight front corset (Waisted Efforts)
In a message dated 8/9/2006 4:26:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They also assumed different fashionable postures in walking, standing, etc. ** This can be really important. You can dress someone up to the nines and if they slouchor don't slouch, whichever the period requires, it won't be convincing. That erect, hands folded at about waist level stance of the 18th century just wouldn't fly where the leaning back contraposto pose of the 1920's and 30's is supposed to be. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] (Straight front) corset - fitting
I've got another probably stupid question: How do you do the fitting??? I mean the corset is - at leat at the waist - much smaller than your real figure, so how can you actually try it on when not yet finished? It must be tight laced and there must be bones in it, else I cannot imagine a fitting. If there are no bones, there will always be wrinkles. And what about the stitching? It must be quite strong to not tear when laced up... The mock-up is made out of heavy non-stretchy fabric -- cotton drill, canvas, jean, and you have to use regular stitching, not basting length stitches. I use a sew on set of eyelets (as Jen Thompson describes using for fitting her 1515 Italian dress - I'd give the web link, but the site appears to be down so I can't be sure of the url). I first fit using that shell. Bones are actually not required to get the initial fit - certain seams may require them, but mostly they just smooth out wrinkle-spots. After the initial mostly unboned fitting, I mark where I think the bones will go, and use twill-tape casings to put them in. Then fit the mock-up again, smoothing out wrinkles and undesired bulges :-) (which are usually dealt with by minute adjustments of the width of a seam. Sometimes I skip the mock-up and just do all the alterations and bone-placement stuff on the actual corset. This works best if the corset is unlined, which I only do if I'm using coutil as the corset fabric. I only skip the mock up step if I'm starting from a commercial pattern, and am therefore pretty assured that the initial corset is close to my size or bigger. Hope that makes sense! -sunny ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Straight front corset (Waisted Efforts)
Yes. I think sometimes people expect foundation garments alone to give a period posture. They don't. Fran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 8/9/2006 4:26:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They also assumed different fashionable postures in walking, standing, etc. ** This can be really important. You can dress someone up to the nines and if they slouchor don't slouch, whichever the period requires, it won't be convincing. That erect, hands folded at about waist level stance of the 18th century just wouldn't fly where the leaning back contraposto pose of the 1920's and 30's is supposed to be. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Straight front corset (Waisted Efforts)
I've seen this book, and I didn't care for it for the very same reason. It seems counterintuitive to try to make a corset from a pattern block. There's an entirely different principle at work--a different kind of engineering, if you will. It seems to be a book for people who want something that looks like a corset but doesn't actually function as one. Also politely disagreeing, Melanie Schuessler Lavolta Press wrote: The idea that simply disagreeing with someone about something is rude is absurd. As for _Waisted Efforts_: Although I make corsets I've never drafted one from a pattern block. But one thing I can say about that book, is that it seriously needs editing and proofreading. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com E House wrote: The rude comment part referred to my criticism of corset patterns developed from a pattern block as seen in Waisted Efforts--unless someone with a great deal of skill alters the pattern, the result is almost always all wrong. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Straight front corset (Waisted Efforts)
While I totally agree with the dislike of 'Waisted Efforts', it is for other reasons...the lack of important information. Bob Doyle uses many different methods in his work, but leaves out crucial information in both this book and his latest on Tailoring. I have always drafted corsets from blocks, I was taught the full method while at school, and have never had a problem. They do the job very nicely. Probably a stupid question, but how do you all develope the pattern for the different corsets you do? Kelly Bravery is something you can experience on the spur of the moment, faced with danger. To have courage, you must think about the dangers in advance, then weigh the risks, and then do what you have to do, despite your fears Caius Merlyn Britannicus From: Melanie Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Straight front corset (Waisted Efforts) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 07:34:58 -0500 I've seen this book, and I didn't care for it for the very same reason. It seems counterintuitive to try to make a corset from a pattern block. There's an entirely different principle at work--a different kind of engineering, if you will. It seems to be a book for people who want something that looks like a corset but doesn't actually function as one. Also politely disagreeing, Melanie Schuessler Lavolta Press wrote: The idea that simply disagreeing with someone about something is rude is absurd. As for _Waisted Efforts_: Although I make corsets I've never drafted one from a pattern block. But one thing I can say about that book, is that it seriously needs editing and proofreading. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com E House wrote: The rude comment part referred to my criticism of corset patterns developed from a pattern block as seen in Waisted Efforts--unless someone with a great deal of skill alters the pattern, the result is almost always all wrong. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Straight front corset (Waisted Efforts)
Probably a stupid question, but how do you all develope the pattern for the different corsets you do? I prefer to start from an existing pattern - either from blowing up one of Waugh's _Corsets Crinolines_ patterns or from a commercial pattern (like Past Patterns) and then fit the heck out of a mock up. Followed by more fitting of the actual corset. The final shape of each piece is almost never exactly from the pattern, but it get's the right shape and lines. The biggest drawback of my method is that I cannot make a corset for myself without _a whole lot_ of help from someone who is skilled at fitting, especially how corsets fit -- since the slightest bubbles that would appear non-existent in a comparatively loose fitting 20th century dress can be quite uncomfortable in a corset, when worn tight-laced all day. -sunny ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] (Straight front) corset - fitting
I've got another probably stupid question: How do you do the fitting??? I mean the corset is - at leat at the waist - much smaller than your real figure, so how can you actually try it on when not yet finished? It must be tight laced and there must be bones in it, else I cannot imagine a fitting. If there are no bones, there will always be wrinkles. And what about the stitching? It must be quite strong to not tear when laced up... Zuzana - Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] (Straight front) corset - fitting
Make up a fitting corset out of inexpensive but heavy non-stretch fabric. (You may want to mine the $1/yd table at walmart, or your local equivalent.) For fitting purposes, you only need one bone per side at the front, side, and back; front-side and back-side bones can be added to combat wrinkles on larger figures. Since the fit of the busk pocket at front and the lacing strips in the rear won't change, go ahead and make those with your real corset fabric, and baste them to the fitting corset. Then, each element of the fitting corset will be useful for the real corset: the fitting corset itself will become the pattern, and the busk and laces sections will go into the real corset. If you make corsets often, you may want to make and save a re-useable busk and laces set. Sew the fitting corset by machine; use a long stitch length, and a tension loose enough that it will be relatively easy to pick out the stitches, but use a strong thread (such as hand quilting thread). To simulate the fit of a garment with finished seams, clip all seam allowances at the curves, then push the seam allowances to one side and topstitch. This sort of construction won't be up to long term use, but it will definitely be enough for the fitting process. While you have the fitting corset on, you might want to take the opportunity to mark where the bones should go. (Only do this after you are satisfied with the fit of the corset!) Even with the few bones you've put into the fitting corset, you'll probably find that they're not in quite the right spot; you can tell this if it feels like the bones twist slightly, rather than laying flat along your body. This is especially problematic with the side-front bones of a straight-front! To mark where the bones should go, get a roll of tape about 3/4 to 1 wide. The wideness of the tape helps avoid errors; if you can get something that wide to lay flat, then the much narrower bone channels certainly will. Cut a piece of tape long enough for a bone channel, and while wearing the corset, lay it where you think the bone channel should be. I find it helps to affix the tape first at the waist, then smooth it up and down; it gives you the best control of where the channel will wind up. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] (Straight front) corset - fitting
You do not have to tight lace to get the correct silhouette for any period. You can make a corset your size, or an inch smaller, without tight lacing. Support and a period silhouette are one thing, extreme body modification (temporary or permanent) is another. As various people have said, a period silhoutte does not depend entirely on the corset. Depending on the period, a period silhouette also depends on padding, hoopskirts, bustles, petticoats, ruffles, optical illusions in the dress style, and conscious posture and movement that is not actually forced by any understructure. However, one thing you can do is make two lacing strips. These are strips of strong fabric with eyelets in them like a corset, more or less the length of a corset. You baste them to each side of every corset muslin you make, so you can lace it up like a corset to try on. Also, the person fitting you does not have to be skilled at fitting or sewing. (My husband fits my corsets.) What you need is someone able to follow directions, and a two-mirror system. You can get cheap full-length mirrors, meant for bathroom doors and so on, at hardware stores and building supply places. Set up one in front of you and one behind you, so you can look at your back while the person fits your garment and tell them what to do. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: I've got another probably stupid question: How do you do the fitting??? I mean the corset is - at leat at the waist - much smaller than your real figure, so how can you actually try it on when not yet finished? It must be tight laced and there must be bones in it, else I cannot imagine a fitting. If there are no bones, there will always be wrinkles. And what about the stitching? It must be quite strong to not tear when laced up... Zuzana - Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] (Straight front) corset - fitting
At 21:46 08/08/2006, you wrote: Make up a fitting corset out of inexpensive but heavy non-stretch fabric. (You may want to mine the $1/yd table at walmart, or your local equivalent.) For fitting purposes, you only need one bone per side at the front, side, and back; front-side and back-side bones can be added to combat wrinkles on larger figures. Since the fit of the busk pocket at front and the lacing strips in the rear won't change, go ahead and make those with your real corset fabric, and baste them to the fitting corset. Then, each element of the fitting corset will be useful for the real corset: the fitting corset itself will become the pattern, and the busk and laces sections will go into the real corset. If you make corsets often, you may want to make and save a re-useable busk and laces set. Sew the fitting corset by machine; use a long stitch length, and a tension loose enough that it will be relatively easy to pick out the stitches, but use a strong thread (such as hand quilting thread). To simulate the fit of a garment with finished seams, clip all seam allowances at the curves, then push the seam allowances to one side and topstitch. This sort of construction won't be up to long term use, but it will definitely be enough for the fitting process. While you have the fitting corset on, you might want to take the opportunity to mark where the bones should go. (Only do this after you are satisfied with the fit of the corset!) Even with the few bones you've put into the fitting corset, you'll probably find that they're not in quite the right spot; you can tell this if it feels like the bones twist slightly, rather than laying flat along your body. This is especially problematic with the side-front bones of a straight-front! To mark where the bones should go, get a roll of tape about 3/4 to 1 wide. The wideness of the tape helps avoid errors; if you can get something that wide to lay flat, then the much narrower bone channels certainly will. Cut a piece of tape long enough for a bone channel, and while wearing the corset, lay it where you think the bone channel should be. I find it helps to affix the tape first at the waist, then smooth it up and down; it gives you the best control of where the channel will wind up. Good Lord, how complicated!! I make up a corset, in the fabric I intend to use, from a customer's measurements, seam the centre front instead of using a busk, but eyelet the back in the normal way. I fit with the seams on the outside, with plenty of seam allowance. But then I have been doing it for 25 years. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] (Straight front) corset - fitting
- Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good Lord, how complicated!! I make up a corset, in the fabric I intend to use, from a customer's measurements, seam the centre front instead of using a busk, but eyelet the back in the normal way. I fit with the seams on the outside, with plenty of seam allowance. But then I have been doing it for 25 years. It sounds more complicated than it is, and is only necessary for the fiddly corsets, like straightfronts. With the extremely narrow pieces involved in the straight front, and the importance of having the exact right curve in those narrow pieces, you'll definitely need to test it out first. Otherwise, you'll find yourself needing seam allowances several times wider than the pattern piece itself! Picture a curved piece that's about an inch wide, and the same piece with a slightly sharper curve. Lay one on top of the other, and the ends don't match up at ALL. Granted, I've only been making straight fronts for about a decade, but believe me, it's enough time to learn this lesson. =} For corsets with less complicated seaming, such as the Elizabethans or the Victorians, a fitting corset is rarely necessary. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Straight front corset
The idea that simply disagreeing with someone about something is rude is absurd. As for _Waisted Efforts_: Although I make corsets I've never drafted one from a pattern block. But one thing I can say about that book, is that it seriously needs editing and proofreading. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com E House wrote: The rude comment part referred to my criticism of corset patterns developed from a pattern block as seen in Waisted Efforts--unless someone with a great deal of skill alters the pattern, the result is almost always all wrong. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Straight front corset
However, this beautiful S-shape of the edwardian times can only be achieved by such a corset... It can be faked to some extent by pooching out the front of the bodice or shirtwaist, and adding a little fullness to the back of a straight-front skirt. This enhancement seems to have been done in the period, in addition to the use of the straight-front corset. I've found that one's , uhm natural enhancements can aid extensively in creating the S-curve - I recently was shown a photo of myself taken at SIT weekend in full Edwardian dress, where I know I am not wearing my corset (I was running late and had to come down the hill by bicycle) but you would never know it from my stance - forward thrust bustline and backward thrust behind - all from the dress, petticoat, shoes and natural build. So it makes sense that design elements can help fake the look, but will not be as effective as a proper corset. Kelly Dorman Backward Glances www.backwardglances.net (new purses recently added, hatpins following shortly!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Straight front corset
The rude comment part referred to my criticism of corset patterns developed from a pattern block as seen in Waisted Efforts--unless someone with a great deal of skill alters the pattern, the result is almost always all wrong. As to extra padding, the Edwardians came up with an amazing range of garments and products to generate the right shape, from the inflatable bust pad to heavily boned bust forms and beyond. Examples: http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/browse/92a0 -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Straight front corset
The rude comment part referred to my criticism of corset patterns
developed from a pattern block as seen in Waisted Efforts--unless someone
with a great deal of skill alters the pattern, the result is almost always
all wrong.
If you really didn't like the pattern I can see where you'd want to make
rude comments about it.
As to extra padding, the Edwardians came up with an amazing range of
garments and products to generate the right shape, from the inflatable
bust pad to heavily boned bust forms and beyond. Examples:
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/browse/92a0
Yep. It's absolutely period to improve nature - for about any historical
period there is - and, in fact, one of the things Edwardians used was
called a Bust Improver.
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
A friend and I made me a corset from the Past Patterns straight front corset pattern. However, it was not a simple/easy project. (...) This sounds exactly like I was afraid the pattern might be. As for comfort, I know very well that the straight-fronted corsets were actually the most uncomfortable and dangerous ones. However, this beautiful S-shape of the edwardian times can only be achieved by such a corset... In the interest of not being negative...I would like to add that Past Patterns makes a pattern for my favorite corset of all time... #708 1845-1860 corset I've never used that pattern, but I have one favorite as well: the simplicity #7215. I've seen a 1869 corset which looks almost the same as the simplicity corset: http://www.tudorlinks.com/treasury/freepatterns/w1869scorsetpatt.html So it should be accurate:-)) And it is very comfortable even when tight-laced. It is not, however, a straight-front corset:-(( - Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
However, this beautiful S-shape of the edwardian times can only be
achieved by such a corset...
It can be faked to some extent by pooching out the front of the bodice or
shirtwaist, and adding a little fullness to the back of a straight-front
skirt. This enhancement seems to have been done in the period, in addition
to the use of the straight-front corset.
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
In this I even must include the Norah Waugh pattern in Corsets
Crinolines; while it may well be based on an extant corset, it is in no
way representative of the straight front corset, and if you're trying to
get that look, you'll be disappointed.
Gee. I have one of those, straight out of Waugh's book, and I find that it
generates the straight-front look just fine on me. It even looks like
the ones in the Sears catalogs of 1900 and 1902, (which I have in reprint)
right down to the seams. I like mine fine and have worn it for many
years. It was no fun to construct, but it is unique among my various
period-repro corsets in that it has never lost a bone.
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
I learned through lots and lots of trial and error, and staring at extant corsets and ads, magazines, etc until my eyes bled. For years. I don't think you can really come up with a formula for drafting them, and that's not how I do it, anyway. You get to know the shape the pattern pieces should be, and how that shape changes when the hips are larger or smaller, when the waist is high or low, and so on. I look at the measurements, build a mental picture of the person's figure, and then just ... adjust. Kinda but not exactly like those scary tailors who can take 2 measurements and then make you a suit that fits like a glove. (If only I could do it with other garments.) It's been a long time since I glanced through the waisted efforts book, so I won't really give a critique of it, but I'll say this: you do not fit a corset to the wearer's skin. A corset reshapes, rather than matching, the figure; therefore, you should instead fit the corset to the parts of the wearer that are NOT reshapeable. In other words, you fit the muscle and the bone, and let the fat fall where it may. I won't categorically reject the possibility of drafting a well-fitting corset from a pattern block, but I will dogmatically state that it's impossible unless you stop looking at it as being like any other garment. The results I see from those who use the pattern block approach are often beautifully designed and constructed, but the fit is that of a skin-tight bodice with the shoulders cut off, which misses the point entirely! One look at the sides of the waist gives the show away, and my goodness, those things must be uncomfortable. That sounded really, really, rude, so I'd like to apologize now and avoid the rush. =} I'm passionate about the fit of corsets, and when I see people wearing ill-fitting corsets and then going on and on about how uncomfortable and torturous corsets are, it makes my teeth itch. As to the Waugh corset, again, I'm not saying it's inaccurate; I'm saying it's not representative. The straight front was technically invented in 1900, but there are corsets that provided a straight front from before then, and corsets that didn't after then. In those first couple of years, there was a LOT of experimentation with the general idea; the Waugh corset is clearly from this era, and is one of the dead-end lines of experimentation. It's really just not that well-designed a corset, since a horizontal seam all the way across the side of the waist is a Bad Idea when it comes to this sort of thing. The early straight fronts were different in a lot of ways from what came about after the experimental period, and while they would have been considered real straight fronts in 1900 and 1901, by the latter half of 1902 they would have been completely out of step with the fashion and incapable of producing the fashionable silhouette. To go back to the original question, the silhouette desired was that of the middle of the decade, and the corset desired was one that would enforce that forward-leaning pose sometimes called an S-curve. The Waugh corset is not of the style used to create this silhouette. When I first saw it 15 years ago, I thought, Wow, yep, that's a stereotypical Edwardian corset! When I look at it now, I think, Wow! What a weird example of an Edwardian corset! It must be from--yep, I knew it: 1901. These are typical example of the seaming used to get that mid-decade silhouette: http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/view/3b35?b=7 http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/view/3b35?b=17 http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/view/3b35?b=15 (click large) And for fun, this is from bizzaro-world (thank you, Lib of Congress): http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/view/3b35?b=5 -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
A friend and I made me a corset from the Past Patterns straight front corset pattern. However, it was not a simple/easy project: 1) Following the initial sizing, did not give me the S-bend shape I was looking for -- we ended up making the top much more tight fitting then the bottom which causes me to relax into the S-bend shape. (This kind of fitting problem is endemic to corset patterns, though - they fit too close to easily be slotted into sizes). 2) The more problematic part of the pattern was insufficient instructions for where to place the boning. There is a picture one is supposed to use, but it's a drawing of the corset crumpled up... It's very hard to figure out exact bone placement. Eventually we simply ignored the picture and marked where we thought the bones should go while I was wearing the corset. The funny thing is we ended up with a boning pattern that looks (when crumpled up as in the picture) a lot like the picture. As a side note, my S shaped corset/straight front corset is not one of my most comfortable corsets - I think this is due to the S curve that it causes me to relax into. I'm used to corsets giving quite a lot of back support, but I find the S shaped corset gives me minor lower back aches - no worse then I get from sitting at my desk at work, but not the lovely support that I have from my hourglass (1890s) and regency corsets. As to _Waisted Efforts_ -- I own the book, but it's mostly mock-ups and comparisons of mock-ups of the corsets from Waugh's _Corsets and Crinolines_. It uses a block technique for drafting the corsets to the right size...but I couldn't make heads or tails of that method. But I think the real trick to corsets comes in the fitting stage, in which millimeter differences in seams are actually noticeable, both to the shape and to how the corset fits. Unfortunately fitting yourself that closely is nearly impossible. Hope that helps! -sunny ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
In a message dated 8/4/2006 8:56:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A friend and I made me a corset from the Past Patterns straight front corset pattern. * I don't like this pattern For one, I don't think the actual pattern looks like the illustration on the envelope. The illustration is what I wanted but I had to make a pattern from a real corset of the period to get that. And that was very time consuming [needed resizing...with all those narrow curving pieces...ay yay yay!] and that's what I was trying to save...TIME...with getting the pattern in the 1st place. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
In a message dated 8/4/2006 9:22:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't like this pattern In the interest of not being negative...I would like to add that Past Patterns makes a pattern for my favorite corset of all time... #708 1845-1860 corset I added a bone between each bone of this lightly boned corset and this has made it most useful. I think you get a good silhouette for 1830's to Bustle with it. It's a beautiful shape! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
That sounded really, really, rude, so I'd like to apologize now and avoid
the rush. =} I'm passionate about the fit of corsets, and when I see
people wearing ill-fitting corsets and then going on and on about how
uncomfortable and torturous corsets are, it makes my teeth itch.
But my Waugh corset fits me well enough that I can wear it all living
history day and live to tell the tale. I'm not sure what your objection to
it is.
As to the Waugh corset, again, I'm not saying it's inaccurate; I'm saying
it's not representative. The straight front was technically invented in
1900, but there are corsets that provided a straight front from before
then, and corsets that didn't after then. In those first couple of years,
there was a LOT of experimentation with the general idea; the Waugh corset
is clearly from this era, and is one of the dead-end lines of
experimentation. It's really just not that well-designed a corset, since a
horizontal seam all the way across the side of the waist is a Bad Idea
when it comes to this sort of thing.
Mine is lined, and the seam at the waist doesn't cause a problem. But
then, I don't lace it super tightly, only tightly enough to produce the
right curves, and I wear something for a chemise under it.
The early straight fronts were different in a lot of ways from what came
about after the experimental period, and while they would have been
considered real straight fronts in 1900 and 1901, by the latter half of
1902 they would have been completely out of step with the fashion and
incapable of producing the fashionable silhouette. To go back to the
original question, the silhouette desired was that of the middle of the
decade, and the corset desired was one that would enforce that
forward-leaning pose sometimes called an S-curve. The Waugh corset is not
of the style used to create this silhouette.
We do 1901, and the Waugh one does fine for that. I think it would do fine
for 1904 or 1906 when that S-curve is much more pronounced.
When I first saw it 15 years ago, I thought, Wow, yep, that's a
stereotypical Edwardian corset! When I look at it now, I think,
Wow! What a weird example of an Edwardian corset! It must be
from--yep, I knew it: 1901.
Wierd example it may be, but I've seen early examples, in like Sears
catalogs, of pretty much the same thing. Again, I'm not sure what your
objection to it is.
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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[h-cost] straight front corset
Hi all, does anyone know a good pattern of a 1900-1909 straight front corset? Something like this one: http://www.marquise.de/database/dbout.php?name=k1902_1pfad=1900 ... Not too long over the hips. I'd welcome a pattern which would fit on a modern figure but giving it the S-shape and a slim waist. Many thanks, Zuzana - Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
Have you looked at the Past Patterns #106 corset: http://www.pastpatterns.com/106.html I find it gives a wonderful line for c. 1900-1905 (not the most comfortable corset era, at least for me) Katy On 8/3/06, Zuzana Kraemerova [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, does anyone know a good pattern of a 1900-1909 straight front corset? Something like this one: http://www.marquise.de/database/dbout.php?name=k1902_1pfad=1900 ... Not too long over the hips. I'd welcome a pattern which would fit on a modern figure but giving it the S-shape and a slim waist. Many thanks, Zuzana - Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
I've never seen the actual pattern pieces for the Past Patterns version of the straight front corset, so please bear that in mind when I say this: I've been horribly disappointed in the accuracy of the patterns out there for straight front corsets. In this I even must include the Norah Waugh pattern in Corsets Crinolines; while it may well be based on an extant corset, it is in no way representative of the straight front corset, and if you're trying to get that look, you'll be disappointed. If you want accuracy and aren't afraid to try to figure out a difficult pattern, try this: http://www.agelesspatterns.com/corsets_5.htm #1339 (early Edwardian) or #1522 (late Edwardian). Both are representative of the lower cut Edwardians that were actually worn. Also, remembering that they are NOT to scale except for the last one, you may want to glance at the pattern pieces you'll see in the photos section of one of my yahoo groups: http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/browse/1bcb That last one is the pattern to the coral corset you'll see me wearing elsewhere in the photos section; it's got a mid-decade straight front fit, but the top and bottom lines are very early decade. (You should be able to select Large under View in order to make out enough detail for it to be useable, but if not I can send you a larger version of the image.) If I remember right, that's a 26 waist, 40 bust, 42 hips, tall. By the way, whenever I get around to moving over all the files, the straight front yahoo group will be absorbed by my other corset group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Historical_Corsets/ which does have some good discussions on occasion. This is because for some reason, straight front corsets seems to mean let me tell you all about my sex life and send you a link to my 923432 favorite bondage sites to 75% of the potential members. Luckily, we haven't had too much of that trouble on historical corsets. Since many people ask, yes that is a corset I made on the front page, but sorry, I do make all my own patterns. If I ever decide to give a class in that, it'll be at FFC and I'll let the group know. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
Well, I've seen the past patterns corset before, it looks exactly like the one I'm looking for, but I find it very risky to purchase such a pattern where it is impossible to see the finished garment. That's why I'm asking for experiences... Has anyone made a corset from this pattern? The both ageless patterns corsets (n. 1339, 1522) seem a bit too straight to me, and they go too long over the hips. I'm searching for a stronger difference between bust, waist and hips. But thanks for the links to the both yahoo groups, and to the patterns there - maybe I could just use them and modify them a bit rather than purchasing something online and waiting for ages to get the pattern... But, well, I don't really know where and how to modify the pattern pieces - I'd say that the construction methods hundred years ago were too different from today to try some great manipulations with the pattern. May I ask you, how did you learn to make patterns for corsets? I know very well how to draft custom-made patterns for all sorts of modern garments and some historical ones, but I don't dare to draft any corset patterns, because the tight-laced figure gets different proportions, you have to take care of the ribs and the pelvis and the corset shape varies so much. I never found any book which would tell me how to draft corsets. I only saw a book called Waisted efforts on the internet and it claimed to be a guide to corsetmaking. It sounds promising, but I could never look inside the book. But I found an excerpt, at least: http://www.farthingales.on.ca/waisted_efforts/page35.htm Do you know that book? Is it helpful? Or do you know any other good sources? Thanks, Zuzana - Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
I know the book the author, it does not, in my opinion, teach you how to draft corsets. It does show draping but you have to know how to make corsets first or be very familiar with the medium. Sarah Paterson - Original Message - http://www.farthingales.on.ca/waisted_efforts/page35.htm Do you know that book? Is it helpful? Or do you know any other good sources? Thanks, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] straight front corset
Don't know of a pattern, but know of a supplier. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zuzana Kraemerova Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 8:04 AM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] straight front corset Hi all, does anyone know a good pattern of a 1900-1909 straight front corset? Something like this one: http://www.marquise.de/database/dbout.php?name=k1902_1pfad=1900 ... Not too long over the hips. I'd welcome a pattern which would fit on a modern figure but giving it the S-shape and a slim waist. Many thanks, Zuzana - Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
