Re: [h-cost] iron corset
There's a line in Eleanora di Firenza's accounts that shows she ordered two. One is in either the Bargello or the Palazzo Vecchio collection in Florence. I saw it last summer. The docent there claimed the steel corset was ordered as an orthotic, rather like a backbrace. http://www.bordersstores.com/features/feature.jsp?file=corset For more information regarding orthopaedic use. This is from the first chapter of Corset by Valerie Steele. A most useful little page. Another is in the Italian Rennaissance exhibit at the VA London. This one I saw 2 weeks ago, tho I dont recall the owning organization. Both of these corsets are steel. The catalog for At Home in the Italian Rennaissance states the corset is from the Museo Stibbert collection, provenance unknown. The catalog says this corset is for a 65cm bust. http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/1487_renaissance/rituals.html This is one of the few that really does look to be an original as the shape is right. Michaela http://glittersweet.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] iron corset ( long-ish)
I'll definitely go! I'm just very busy now, so I only have to find out when, probably this or next week. So, if you have questions, ask! I'll give a report after the visit:-)) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Suzi Clarke wrote: I didn't know there was a sex machine museum in Prague! Gotta go there sometime:-)) We expect a full report on the corset when you do! (Honestly, if you're planning on going, I could come up with a list of questions for you to ask...) Emma ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] iron corset ( long-ish)
I didn't know there was a sex machine museum in Prague! Gotta go there sometime:-)) Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 23:00 07/11/2006, you wrote: The story so far: Here is the specific block of text that really got my curiosity up, this is copied from en.wikibooks.org; it's one of the hits I got when I did a google image search for iron corset --copied text follows-- Iron corsets are Victorian Era corsetcovers made of metal. There are several in museum collections. It is sometimes claimed that these were the everyday wear of women and girls throughout Europe in the sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries. But they are more likely to be orthopedic instruments used by a very few women whose posture was not considered acceptable by the health and beauty standards of the time. * It is likely that the Iron Corset was originally a type of armour worn only by men. * The fact is as the iron corset was used both of men and women, but only on dress occasions. The iron was heavy, but the dress was also heavy, and the iron was padded underneath like armour. The silk of that time was very expensive but of poor quality and stretched poorly. It looked beautiful on the shining metal. The iron corset also worked as a bulletproof waistcoat, because assassination by knife in heart was a common risk. * The padded iron corset and armour was known as a corset on women, and a waistcoat (vest) on men. --end copied text-- This block, or portions of it, is used on any number of websites. I'd like to know where these ideas came from. Not in this text is the idea that the iron corset was invented by the de Medici's, or that Catherine wore one to achieve her 13 inch waist, though that's another common theme. The iron corsets I've located so far are as follows: http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18th/lingerie18.html one in the sex machines museum (you have been warned)(not actually sexually explicit) in the sex machines gallary http://www.sexmachinesmuseum.com http://employees.oneonta.edu/angellkg/RENAISSA.HTML near the bottom of the page. This one is in the Cluny museum? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Iron_corset two more, as well as duplicates and drawings. http://web.archive.org/web/20050302121500/http://greatdayamerica.com/style/fashion/lycracorset.shtml http://www.staylace.com/unsortedjpgs/iron.jpg I *think* this one is in the Wallace Collection http://www.csuchico.edu/~cheinz/syllabi/fall99/bendlin/page2.html one new and one repeat and finally http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13444/13444-h/13444-h.htm#page101 which is a facimile of a book published in 1920 which includes variations on the de Medici comments. I have some theories, any or all of which may be true. I think some of the corsets may have been shop signs or orthopedic devices. I think some of them might have been victorian reproductions or fetish objects. (I have at least one victorian naughty picture of a woman in an iron corset--it is a medieval costume) I welcome any thoughts anybody else might have. I have always thought they could be early dress dummies - no boobs ones are easy to pad to shape. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume - Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] iron corset ( long-ish)
Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't know there was a sex machine museum in Prague! Gotta go there sometime:-)) We expect a full report on the corset when you do! (Honestly, if you're planning on going, I could come up with a list of questions for you to ask...) Emma ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
re: [h-cost] iron corset
There are various kinds of these things around. Of the most common pics I've seen are ones that are considered to be ceremonial or decorative wear -- not for everyday use or combat, -C. Speaking of decorative wear, another arguement given on these unreferenced sites is that these are corset *covers*--has anybody seen illustrations of anything like this being worn on the outside of clothing? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] iron corset
For theatrical performances, perhaps? Fran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speaking of decorative wear, another arguement given on these unreferenced sites is that these are corset *covers*--has anybody seen illustrations of anything like this being worn on the outside of clothing? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] iron corset
I have in my online library three images of two metal corsets for this period in chapter 4 of the following book. Book info: W.B.L. (listed author),The Corset and the Crinoline: A Book of Modes and Costumes, London: Ward, Lock, and Tyler, 1868. This book is about the history of corsetry and crinoline. Here is a paragraph from the book about the metal corsets from page 75: Several writers have mentioned the 'steel corsets' of this period, and assumed that they were used for the purpose of forcibly reducing the size of the waist. In this opinion they were incorrect, as the steel framework in question was simply used to wear over the corset after the waist had been reduced by lacing to the required standard, in order that the dress over it might fit with inflexible and unerring exactness, and that not even a fold might be seen in the faultless stomacher then worn. These corsets (or, more correctly, corset-covers) were constructed of very thin steel plate, which was cut out and wrought into a species of open-work pattern, with a view to giving lightness to them. Numbers of holes were drilled through the flat surfaces between the hollows of the pattern, through which the needle and thread were passed in covering them accurately with velvet, silk, or other rich materials. During the reign of Queen Catherine de Medici, to whom is attributed the invention of these contrivances, they became great favourites, and were much worn, not only at her court, but throughout the greater part of the continent. Catherine's 13 waist is discussed in Chapter 4 and starts on page 72 and the discussion of the metal corsets follows: http://www.costumegallery.com/Library/1868/CorsetBook/Chapter4/pages/p72.htm This book is in our subscription area of the Library. But you can view for no charge a detailed table of contents for the book at: http://www.costumegallery.com/1868/CorsetBook/ . There are ten chapters to this book; we have eight of them online. Chapters 8 and 10 are being coded for the web at this moment. The last part of this project is a complete index from the book and links to their respective webpages. The images for Chapter 10 are online. There are 224 pages to this book and it has been a massive project two-year project of typing, html coding, and prepping the images. Several people have worked on getting this book online. Also a big honorable mention to our lifetime subscriber, Kathleen Mitchell, who loaned us the Corset book to put online. The numbering of the pages may look strange. The numbering of the webpages is exact to what is in the book. Each of the book images took up entire pages, these pages are numbered, thus the missing page numbers. I choose to put smaller images on the same webpage as where they mentioned in the text. Readers may click on the small image and view an enlargement on the text webpages. Or you can view all the images via the image index per chapter from the table of contents. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] iron corset
This from Valerie Steele's The Corset: A Cultural History (2001) There do exist in museum collections certain notorious iron corsets, which are usually dated to about 1580-1600. But were they really the first fashionable corsets? Modern scholars who have examined them tend to believe that these metal corsets were probably orthopedic devices designed to correct spinal deformities. - 'when they are not, as is commonly the case, fanciful reproductions. There is no evidence that they were worn by women as stays.' Instead, it seems that two types of corsets appeared in the sixteenth century: fashionable corsets created by tailors, which sometimes incorporated metal as well as whalebone stays, and orthopedic corsets constructed from plates of perforated metal, hinged at the sides, which were used by surgeons. Katy On 11/8/06, Penny Ladnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have in my online library three images of two metal corsets for this period in chapter 4 of the following book. Book info: W.B.L. (listed author),The Corset and the Crinoline: A Book of Modes and Costumes, London: Ward, Lock, and Tyler, 1868. This book is about the history of corsetry and crinoline. Here is a paragraph from the book about the metal corsets from page 75: Several writers have mentioned the 'steel corsets' of this period, and assumed that they were used for the purpose of forcibly reducing the size of the waist. In this opinion they were incorrect, as the steel framework in question was simply used to wear over the corset after the waist had been reduced by lacing to the required standard, in order that the dress over it might fit with inflexible and unerring exactness, and that not even a fold might be seen in the faultless stomacher then worn. These corsets (or, more correctly, corset-covers) were constructed of very thin steel plate, which was cut out and wrought into a species of open-work pattern, with a view to giving lightness to them. Numbers of holes were drilled through the flat surfaces between the hollows of the pattern, through which the needle and thread were passed in covering them accurately with velvet, silk, or other rich materials. During the reign of Queen Catherine de Medici, to whom is attributed the invention of these contrivances, they became great favourites, and were much worn, not only at her court, but throughout the greater part of the continent. Catherine's 13 waist is discussed in Chapter 4 and starts on page 72 and the discussion of the metal corsets follows: http://www.costumegallery.com/Library/1868/CorsetBook/Chapter4/pages/p72.htm This book is in our subscription area of the Library. But you can view for no charge a detailed table of contents for the book at: http://www.costumegallery.com/1868/CorsetBook/ . There are ten chapters to this book; we have eight of them online. Chapters 8 and 10 are being coded for the web at this moment. The last part of this project is a complete index from the book and links to their respective webpages. The images for Chapter 10 are online. There are 224 pages to this book and it has been a massive project two-year project of typing, html coding, and prepping the images. Several people have worked on getting this book online. Also a big honorable mention to our lifetime subscriber, Kathleen Mitchell, who loaned us the Corset book to put online. The numbering of the pages may look strange. The numbering of the webpages is exact to what is in the book. Each of the book images took up entire pages, these pages are numbered, thus the missing page numbers. I choose to put smaller images on the same webpage as where they mentioned in the text. Readers may click on the small image and view an enlargement on the text webpages. Or you can view all the images via the image index per chapter from the table of contents. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] iron corset
- Original Message - From: Penny Ladnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset I have in my online library three images of two metal corsets for this period in chapter 4 of the following book. Book info: W.B.L. (listed author),The Corset and the Crinoline: A Book of Modes and Costumes, London: Ward, Lock, and Tyler, 1868. This book is about the history of corsetry and crinoline. Here is a paragraph from the book about the metal corsets from page 75: Several writers have mentioned the 'steel corsets' of this period, and assumed that they were used for the purpose of forcibly reducing the size of the waist. In this opinion they were incorrect, as the steel framework in question was simply used to wear over the corset after the waist had been reduced by lacing to the required standard, in order that the dress over it might fit with inflexible and unerring exactness, and that not even a fold might be seen in the faultless stomacher then worn. These corsets (or, more correctly, corset-covers) were constructed of very thin steel plate, which was cut out and wrought into a species of open-work pattern, with a view to giving lightness to them. Numbers of holes were drilled through the flat surfaces between the hollows of the pattern, through which the needle and thread were passed in covering them accurately with velvet, silk, or other rich materials. During the reign of Queen Catherine de Medici, to whom is attributed the invention of these contrivances, they became great favourites, and were much worn, not only at her court, but throughout the greater part of the continent. snip On the topic of 16th century Iron corsets I have heard it said that Eleanor of Toledo may have had an iron corset because she was very ill during the last few years of her life and she was wasting away, because her dressmakers couldn't take her clothes in fast enough to keep up with the disease's progress she was given a rigid metal corset to keep the shape of her gown even though she was several sizes smaller inside it. It came up in the context of the new Moda di Firenze book (is that the right title?) so maybe it's in there, then again it may have been from a different source. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
re: [h-cost] iron corset
There's a line in Eleanora di Firenza's accounts that shows she ordered two. One is in either the Bargello or the Palazzo Vecchio collection in Florence. I saw it last summer. The docent there claimed the steel corset was ordered as an orthotic, rather like a backbrace. Another is in the Italian Rennaissance exhibit at the VA London. This one I saw 2 weeks ago, tho I dont recall the owning organization. Both of these corsets are steel. The catalog for At Home in the Italian Rennaissance states the corset is from the Museo Stibbert collection, provenance unknown. The catalog says this corset is for a 65cm bust. You'll find papers and original docs referenced in each of these catalogs. I've never seen anything on iron corsets. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:36 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] iron corset I'm trying to find information on the iron corsets that show up in museum collections and shocking costume- or corset-history websites. Specifically, I'm trying to track down sources for some of the information that is bandied about (without references) online. For example, is there any written evidence that Catherine de Medici ever wore one, for example? Are there documents regarding her (supposed) insistance that the ladies of her court maintain a 13 inch waist? I've heard of an account of a 16th century doctor having one made as a back brace, does anybody know where this came from? Emma ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
re: [h-cost] iron corset
Jeeze, you know, I wish I still had some of the old research materials I used for a film I worked on last century (last century, I love being able to say that)... There are various kinds of these things around. Of the most common pics I've seen are ones that are considered to be ceremonial or decorative wear -- not for everyday use or combat, -C. This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] iron corset
Eleonora di Toledo used these (probably) in the early yaers of her infection with TB (Circa 1550). She insisted on being out in public with her husband Duke Cosimo I de Medici and she wore these under her gowns so her posture would stay erect. It is possible that she was worried bad posture might set off a coughing fit-- perhaps she did not wish to appear ill or weak. Best regards- Monica Monica Spence -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Cin Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 7:04 PM To: h-cost Subject: re: [h-cost] iron corset There's a line in Eleanora di Firenza's accounts that shows she ordered two. One is in either the Bargello or the Palazzo Vecchio collection in Florence. I saw it last summer. The docent there claimed the steel corset was ordered as an orthotic, rather like a backbrace. Another is in the Italian Rennaissance exhibit at the VA London. This one I saw 2 weeks ago, tho I dont recall the owning organization. Both of these corsets are steel. The catalog for At Home in the Italian Rennaissance states the corset is from the Museo Stibbert collection, provenance unknown. The catalog says this corset is for a 65cm bust. You'll find papers and original docs referenced in each of these catalogs. I've never seen anything on iron corsets. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:36 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] iron corset I'm trying to find information on the iron corsets that show up in museum collections and shocking costume- or corset-history websites. Specifically, I'm trying to track down sources for some of the information that is bandied about (without references) online. For example, is there any written evidence that Catherine de Medici ever wore one, for example? Are there documents regarding her (supposed) insistance that the ladies of her court maintain a 13 inch waist? I've heard of an account of a 16th century doctor having one made as a back brace, does anybody know where this came from? Emma ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] iron corset
TB is not just a lung disease; you can get tuberculosis of the spine. Fran monica spence wrote: Eleonora di Toledo used these (probably) in the early yaers of her infection with TB (Circa 1550). She insisted on being out in public with her husband Duke Cosimo I de Medici and she wore these under her gowns so her posture would stay erect. It is possible that she was worried bad posture might set off a coughing fit-- perhaps she did not wish to appear ill or weak. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] iron corset
Eleonora had TB of the lungs. Contemporary commentators (Cellini, for instance) talked and wrote about how she coughed and brought up blood. And she was notoriously stubborn about accepting medical treatments. OTOH, She daily drank a quart of mineral water from a thermal spring to help her. Not that there was much they could do at the time... Monica -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:33 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset TB is not just a lung disease; you can get tuberculosis of the spine. Fran monica spence wrote: Eleonora di Toledo used these (probably) in the early yaers of her infection with TB (Circa 1550). She insisted on being out in public with her husband Duke Cosimo I de Medici and she wore these under her gowns so her posture would stay erect. It is possible that she was worried bad posture might set off a coughing fit-- perhaps she did not wish to appear ill or weak. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] iron corset
Tuberculosis often spreads from the lungs to other parts of the body, or may first appear in other parts of the body. These include the spine and other bones, meninges of the brain and spinal cord, kidneys, female reproductive organs, abdonminal cavity, skin, intestines, adrenal glands, blood vessels, and miliary TB, which means you have it throughout the body. About a third of the world's population has latent TB, but if you live a healthy lifestyle, you have about a 90% chance of never developing active TB and of dying in old age of something else entirely. Pre-antobiotic treatments often consisted of doing things that we'd interpret as boosting the immune system--good food, lots of rest, and so on--and of making sure the patient breathed clean air. I think sometimes this managed to push the disease back into the latent stage. Now they give you cocktails of about five or six drugs (I think usually only two or three of them at once), some of which have unpleasant side effects. The drugs usually push the disease back into the latent stage in only a few weeks, but it takes anywhere from six months to two years to kill all the bacteria. The modern drug treatment for latent TB is about the same as for active TB. Usually they don't even bother treating latent TB except for high-risk patients. My husband and I have both had it almost all our lives, and so probably have other members of h-costume, whether they know it or not. Latent TB is not contagious, and there is no way to tell whether someone has it without modern tests. The bacillus just sits there, and you notice absolutely no effects whatever. Thankfully, the drug industry is trying to develop more effective drugs for it. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com monica spence wrote: Eleonora had TB of the lungs. Contemporary commentators (Cellini, for instance) talked and wrote about how she coughed and brought up blood. And she was notoriously stubborn about accepting medical treatments. OTOH, She daily drank a quart of mineral water from a thermal spring to help her. Not that there was much they could do at the time... Monica -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:33 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset TB is not just a lung disease; you can get tuberculosis of the spine. Fran monica spence wrote: Eleonora di Toledo used these (probably) in the early yaers of her infection with TB (Circa 1550). She insisted on being out in public with her husband Duke Cosimo I de Medici and she wore these under her gowns so her posture would stay erect. It is possible that she was worried bad posture might set off a coughing fit-- perhaps she did not wish to appear ill or weak. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] iron corset
There's a picture of one here...but I don't think it was actually a corset - a shop sign, perhaps. g http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18t h/lingerie18.html Quia Christus perpetuo regnat, Elisabeth -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:36 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] iron corset I'm trying to find information on the iron corsets that show up in museum collections and shocking costume- or corset-history websites. Specifically, I'm trying to track down sources for some of the information that is bandied about (without references) online. For example, is there any written evidence that Catherine de Medici ever wore one, for example? Are there documents regarding her (supposed) insistance that the ladies of her court maintain a 13 inch waist? I've heard of an account of a 16th century doctor having one made as a back brace, does anybody know where this came from? Emma ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.29/520 - Release Date: 11/6/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.29/520 - Release Date: 11/6/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] iron corset ( long-ish)
The story so far: Here is the specific block of text that really got my curiosity up, this is copied from en.wikibooks.org; it's one of the hits I got when I did a google image search for iron corset --copied text follows-- Iron corsets are Victorian Era corsetcovers made of metal. There are several in museum collections. It is sometimes claimed that these were the everyday wear of women and girls throughout Europe in the sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries. But they are more likely to be orthopedic instruments used by a very few women whose posture was not considered acceptable by the health and beauty standards of the time. * It is likely that the Iron Corset was originally a type of armour worn only by men. * The fact is as the iron corset was used both of men and women, but only on dress occasions. The iron was heavy, but the dress was also heavy, and the iron was padded underneath like armour. The silk of that time was very expensive but of poor quality and stretched poorly. It looked beautiful on the shining metal. The iron corset also worked as a bulletproof waistcoat, because assassination by knife in heart was a common risk. * The padded iron corset and armour was known as a corset on women, and a waistcoat (vest) on men. --end copied text-- This block, or portions of it, is used on any number of websites. I'd like to know where these ideas came from. Not in this text is the idea that the iron corset was invented by the de Medici's, or that Catherine wore one to achieve her 13 inch waist, though that's another common theme. The iron corsets I've located so far are as follows: http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18th/lingerie18.html one in the sex machines museum (you have been warned)(not actually sexually explicit) in the sex machines gallary http://www.sexmachinesmuseum.com http://employees.oneonta.edu/angellkg/RENAISSA.HTML near the bottom of the page. This one is in the Cluny museum? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Iron_corset two more, as well as duplicates and drawings. http://web.archive.org/web/20050302121500/http://greatdayamerica.com/style/fashion/lycracorset.shtml http://www.staylace.com/unsortedjpgs/iron.jpg I *think* this one is in the Wallace Collection http://www.csuchico.edu/~cheinz/syllabi/fall99/bendlin/page2.html one new and one repeat and finally http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13444/13444-h/13444-h.htm#page101 which is a facimile of a book published in 1920 which includes variations on the de Medici comments. I have some theories, any or all of which may be true. I think some of the corsets may have been shop signs or orthopedic devices. I think some of them might have been victorian reproductions or fetish objects. (I have at least one victorian naughty picture of a woman in an iron corset--it is a medieval costume) I welcome any thoughts anybody else might have. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] iron corset ( long-ish)
At 23:00 07/11/2006, you wrote: The story so far: Here is the specific block of text that really got my curiosity up, this is copied from en.wikibooks.org; it's one of the hits I got when I did a google image search for iron corset --copied text follows-- Iron corsets are Victorian Era corsetcovers made of metal. There are several in museum collections. It is sometimes claimed that these were the everyday wear of women and girls throughout Europe in the sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries. But they are more likely to be orthopedic instruments used by a very few women whose posture was not considered acceptable by the health and beauty standards of the time. * It is likely that the Iron Corset was originally a type of armour worn only by men. * The fact is as the iron corset was used both of men and women, but only on dress occasions. The iron was heavy, but the dress was also heavy, and the iron was padded underneath like armour. The silk of that time was very expensive but of poor quality and stretched poorly. It looked beautiful on the shining metal. The iron corset also worked as a bulletproof waistcoat, because assassination by knife in heart was a common risk. * The padded iron corset and armour was known as a corset on women, and a waistcoat (vest) on men. --end copied text-- This block, or portions of it, is used on any number of websites. I'd like to know where these ideas came from. Not in this text is the idea that the iron corset was invented by the de Medici's, or that Catherine wore one to achieve her 13 inch waist, though that's another common theme. The iron corsets I've located so far are as follows: http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18th/lingerie18.html one in the sex machines museum (you have been warned)(not actually sexually explicit) in the sex machines gallary http://www.sexmachinesmuseum.com http://employees.oneonta.edu/angellkg/RENAISSA.HTML near the bottom of the page. This one is in the Cluny museum? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Iron_corset two more, as well as duplicates and drawings. http://web.archive.org/web/20050302121500/http://greatdayamerica.com/style/fashion/lycracorset.shtml http://www.staylace.com/unsortedjpgs/iron.jpg I *think* this one is in the Wallace Collection http://www.csuchico.edu/~cheinz/syllabi/fall99/bendlin/page2.html one new and one repeat and finally http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13444/13444-h/13444-h.htm#page101 which is a facimile of a book published in 1920 which includes variations on the de Medici comments. I have some theories, any or all of which may be true. I think some of the corsets may have been shop signs or orthopedic devices. I think some of them might have been victorian reproductions or fetish objects. (I have at least one victorian naughty picture of a woman in an iron corset--it is a medieval costume) I welcome any thoughts anybody else might have. I have always thought they could be early dress dummies - no boobs ones are easy to pad to shape. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] iron corset
http://tinyurl.com/e5zh6 -Original Message- There's a picture of one here...but I don't think it was actually a corset - a shop sign, perhaps. g http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18t h/lingerie18.html Quia Christus perpetuo regnat, Elisabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] iron corset
otsisto wrote: http://tinyurl.com/e5zh6 -Original Message- There's a picture of one here...but I don't think it was actually a corset - a shop sign, perhaps. g http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18t h/lingerie18.html Nice collection... but they've got all their corsets laced the wrong way! -- Adele de Maisieres - Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
