Re: SEMI off topic
IIRC 400 Hz is(was) widely used on aircraft. The reason was smaller, lighter components were a must for aircraft. The radios and radars of the day all used very high voltages and gulped a lot of power. Large transformers were common. Given the availability of 400 Hz components, it baffled me why IBM would select 415. But, then, at the time, IBM was (in)famous for being incompatible. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:08 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SEMI off topic On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:32:31 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote: I was accustomed, decades ago, to hearing 400 Hz. Was it always 415 Hz., subject to verbal shorthand? Yes. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:13:25 -0600, Hal Merritt wrote: Given the availability of 400 Hz components, it baffled me why IBM would select 415. But, then, at the time, IBM was (in)famous for being incompatible. I just got out of a meeting with a vendor. Somehow IBM came up and he said, It's Big Blue. You conform. Not the other way around. So in that context, everyone else is incompatible. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:32:31 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote: I was accustomed, decades ago, to hearing 400 Hz. Was it always 415 Hz., subject to verbal shorthand? Yes. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
Sounds like the old NVIP site... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SEMI off topic We had fail-over to battery then to diesel. You could hear the turbines on the Pa. turnpike a couple hundred meters prior to the Philly exit eastbound. I just googled and it looks like anywhere from 4 - 6 ms. Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: its been an interesting discussion. Thanks all for contributing. One question remains in my mind though what is the allowable time power maybe interrupted to a CPU ? 1 NS (nanosecond) ? or 0 NS? or ? As I said in my original piece I am not familiar with UPS's and could some one come up with a current answer? If the answer is it depends that would be nice to know that, as well. Thanks. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1214 - Release Date: 1/8/2008 1:38 PM http://e-mail-servers.com/548ae3add9aa3a9c35e8cdc2e3b8da93worker.jpg -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
Yes. It's a damn shame, it's now history as of this past Sunday, well what was left of us over there. I stopped by and popped a few face plates off what was left of the hardware, took the international clock and whatever other trinkets I could carry off. My teenage kids just laughed when I showed up at home with *the junk*. Gary Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like the old NVIP site... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SEMI off topic We had fail-over to battery then to diesel. You could hear the turbines on the Pa. turnpike a couple hundred meters prior to the Philly exit eastbound. I just googled and it looks like anywhere from 4 - 6 ms. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
Wow, I did not know they were still around. I drive by the building every 6 months or so and recall my days there. That was when they were owned by a porno house on the left coast. (or so we were told) Met an IBM PSR there and she was one of the smarted people I ever met in the business. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:09 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SEMI off topic Yes. It's a damn shame, it's now history as of this past Sunday, well what was left of us over there. I stopped by and popped a few face plates off what was left of the hardware, took the international clock and whatever other trinkets I could carry off. My teenage kids just laughed when I showed up at home with *the junk*. Gary Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like the old NVIP site... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SEMI off topic We had fail-over to battery then to diesel. You could hear the turbines on the Pa. turnpike a couple hundred meters prior to the Philly exit eastbound. I just googled and it looks like anywhere from 4 - 6 ms. http://e-mail-servers.com/76f3eaa1cca0f78727d7f2ba2beb7c76worker.jpg -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
Filmways corporation owned them quite a while back for a few years. Combined then bought it. Everyone that was left got outsourced. Probably Betsy. Gary Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, I did not know they were still around. I drive by the building every 6 months or so and recall my days there. That was when they were owned by a porno house on the left coast. (or so we were told) Met an IBM PSR there and she was one of the smarted people I ever met in the business. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:09 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SEMI off topic Yes. It's a damn shame, it's now history as of this past Sunday, well what was left of us over there. I stopped by and popped a few face plates off what was left of the hardware, took the international clock and whatever other trinkets I could carry off. My teenage kids just laughed when I showed up at home with *the junk*. Gary Green wrote: Sounds like the old NVIP site... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SEMI off topic We had fail-over to battery then to diesel. You could hear the turbines on the Pa. turnpike a couple hundred meters prior to the Philly exit eastbound. I just googled and it looks like anywhere from 4 - 6 ms. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
Yeah! That was the name... Sorry, but Betsy does not ring a bell. Of course, at this late stage, about the only thing that rings my bell is the dinner bell. :( -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:45 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SEMI off topic Filmways corporation owned them quite a while back for a few years. Combined then bought it. Everyone that was left got outsourced. Probably Betsy. Gary Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, I did not know they were still around. I drive by the building every 6 months or so and recall my days there. That was when they were owned by a porno house on the left coast. (or so we were told) Met an IBM PSR there and she was one of the smarted people I ever met in the business. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:09 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SEMI off topic Yes. It's a damn shame, it's now history as of this past Sunday, well what was left of us over there. I stopped by and popped a few face plates off what was left of the hardware, took the international clock and whatever other trinkets I could carry off. My teenage kids just laughed when I showed up at home with *the junk*. Gary Green wrote: Sounds like the old NVIP site... http://e-mail-servers.com/f44b36f73793268284cc5a92d343811bworker.jpg -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
Tom Marchant wrote: On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:36:22 -, Phil Payne wrote: ... every machine was powered via motor-generators. For those of you who might not know what that was or why, the processors of that time generally specified 415 Hz three phase power to operate them. snip True at the high end only. e.g., 168s used MGs because they used 415Hz power but 158s did not; they just used regular old 3-phase 60Hz 220V power. I never did know why, though. I always wondered whether it was to keep the number and size of power supply capacitors to a reasonable minimum. -- John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of John Eells Tom Marchant wrote: On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:36:22 -, Phil Payne wrote: ... every machine was powered via motor-generators. For those of you who might not know what that was or why, the processors of that time generally specified 415 Hz three phase power to operate them. snip True at the high end only. e.g., 168s used MGs because they used 415Hz power but 158s did not; they just used regular old 3-phase 60Hz 220V power. I never did know why, though. I always wondered whether it was to keep the number and size of power supply capacitors to a reasonable minimum. Yes, according to my EE colleague. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
snip- True at the high end only. e.g., 168s used MGs because they used 415Hz power but 158s did not; they just used regular old 3-phase 60Hz 220V power. I never did know why, though. I always wondered whether it was to keep the number and size of power supply capacitors to a reasonable minimum. -unsnip Transformers for 415 Hz are also much smaller and lighter than those for the equivalent worload in 60 Hz. power. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:23:22 -0600, Rick Fochtman wrote: snip- (John Eells) True at the high end only. e.g., 168s used MGs because they used 415Hz power but 158s did not; they just used regular old 3-phase 60Hz 220V power. I was accustomed, decades ago, to hearing 400 Hz. Was it always 415 Hz., subject to verbal shorthand? A on a Baroque oboe? 0.4 KiHz? (Never mind!) I never did know why, though. I always wondered whether it was to keep the number and size of power supply capacitors to a reasonable minimum. -unsnip Transformers for 415 Hz are also much smaller and lighter than those for the equivalent worload in 60 Hz. power. (Important for aviation applications.) In fact, full-wave rectified 3-phase has 20% ripple with no filtering whatever (ignoring glitches). Almost good enough. Thoughts: o With more poles on the MG, one could get even higher frequencies. o With more windings on the MG, one could get more phases, probably even better than higher frequencies. o Why transformers? This is a specialized, dedicated application; use multiple taps on the generator (presumably stator) winding. All non-electrician's conjecture. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
Paul Gilmartin wrote: [...] The phrase was even for a second or two. The article makes it pretty clear that the flywheels run all the time and there is zero interruption. Back to the future. Flywheels were in use in 60's. Not in IT, but in industries, i.e. in yarn productions (synthetic fibres). long before UPSes. IMHO nowadays it is pointless. Modern diesel engines start in few (i.e. 4) seconds. Those engines are heated constantly (using electrical power). Flywheel is heavy, consumes energy, it wears, last but not least: it is dangerous. In the old days it was mounted in a bunker, rather underground. For computer equipment there is no difference between 4 seconds and 0.5-1 second. UPS is a must for switching time. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2007 r. kapitał zakładowy BRE Banku SA (w całości opłacony) wynosi 118.064.140 zł. W związku z realizacją warunkowego podwyższenia kapitału zakładowego, na podstawie uchwał XVI WZ z dnia 21.05.2003 r., kapitał zakładowy BRE Banku SA może ulec podwyższeniu do kwoty 118.760.528 zł. Akcje w podwyższonym kapitale zakładowym będą w całości opłacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
Maybe a Mythbuster question, but could they really stop your watch? From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Tom Marchant Sent: Wed 1/9/2008 8:04 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SEMI off topic On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:36:22 -, Phil Payne wrote: ... every machine was powered via motor-generators. For those of you who might not know what that was or why, the processors of that time generally specified 415 Hz three phase power to operate them. The utilities provide 60 Hz (in the USA) or 50 HZ. AThe motor-generators have a motor powered by the utility supplied power driving a generator that produced the 415 Hz power. These were quite massive units with considerable rotating mass that acted as a flywheel. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:36:22 -, Phil Payne wrote: ... every machine was powered via motor-generators. For those of you who might not know what that was or why, the processors of that time generally specified 415 Hz three phase power to operate them. The utilities provide 60 Hz (in the USA) or 50 HZ. AThe motor-generators have a motor powered by the utility supplied power driving a generator that produced the 415 Hz power. These were quite massive units with considerable rotating mass that acted as a flywheel. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
On Jan 9, 2008, at 6:08 AM, R.S. wrote: Paul Gilmartin wrote: [...] The phrase was even for a second or two. The article makes it pretty clear that the flywheels run all the time and there is zero interruption. Back to the future. Flywheels were in use in 60's. Not in IT, but in industries, i.e. in yarn productions (synthetic fibres). long before UPSes. IMHO nowadays it is pointless. Modern diesel engines start in few (i.e. 4) seconds. Those engines are heated constantly (using electrical power). Flywheel is heavy, consumes energy, it wears, last but not least: it is dangerous. In the old days it was mounted in a bunker, rather underground. For computer equipment there is no difference between 4 seconds and 0.5-1 second. UPS is a must for switching time. R.S. its been an interesting discussion. Thanks all for contributing. One question remains in my mind though what is the allowable time power maybe interrupted to a CPU ? 1 NS (nanosecond) ? or 0 NS? or ? As I said in my original piece I am not familiar with UPS's and could some one come up with a current answer? If the answer is it depends that would be nice to know that, as well. Thanks. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
-snip-- Maybe a Mythbuster question, but could they really stop your watch? --unsnip-- Depended on the watch and the MG set. Anti-magnetic watches were unaffected, but I lost a couple cheap Timex watches that way. The MG sets in question were for a matched quartet of 370/168's. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SEMI off topic -snip-- Maybe a Mythbuster question, but could they really stop your watch? --unsnip-- Depended on the watch and the MG set. Anti-magnetic watches were unaffected, but I lost a couple cheap Timex watches that way. The MG sets in question were for a matched quartet of 370/168's. And I don't know if it is true, but we had one in a data center on the 21st floor of a building. I was told that if it were to tip over (impossible?), it wouldn't stop until it hit the basement. It was supposedly on a specially reinforced section of the floor. But I don't know enough to know if this is true or not. Makes me wonder how they got it into the build, if true. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
We had fail-over to battery then to diesel. You could hear the turbines on the Pa. turnpike a couple hundred meters prior to the Philly exit eastbound. I just googled and it looks like anywhere from 4 - 6 ms. Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: its been an interesting discussion. Thanks all for contributing. One question remains in my mind though what is the allowable time power maybe interrupted to a CPU ? 1 NS (nanosecond) ? or 0 NS? or ? As I said in my original piece I am not familiar with UPS's and could some one come up with a current answer? If the answer is it depends that would be nice to know that, as well. Thanks. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
The flywheels in the story transition the load from a failed main to a generator. The flywheel would carry the load while giving the generator up to 15 seconds to start and stabilize. This is a UPS that stores energy in a mechanical device rather than a chemical one. Depending on the design of the unit, some switching may occur, but those times should be well within the tolerance levels of the protected equipment. Personally, I would think that the mechanical systems as described would be much safer than battery based systems. Each battery contains some really nasty chemicals and metals. At the end of the batteries' life, the disposal becomes an environmental issue. Larger batteries use 'flooded cell' technology which translates to concentrated liquid sulfuric acid. Even nastier than the 'gel' cells used in smaller systems where the acid is not in a liquid state. Both systems consume power. The flywheel has to be kept turning, but batteries have to be constantly 'trickle' charged. Our shop has failed twice due to battery issues. Once due to a bad battery in the UPS, and once due to generator starter batteries. Overall, IMHO, it looks like the TCO and environmental issues make this technology well worth a close look. My $0.02 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of R.S. Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 6:08 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SEMI off topic Paul Gilmartin wrote: Back to the future. Flywheels were in use in 60's. Not in IT, but in industries, i.e. in yarn productions (synthetic fibres). long before UPSes. IMHO nowadays it is pointless. Modern diesel engines start in few (i.e. 4) seconds. Those engines are heated constantly (using electrical power). Flywheel is heavy, consumes energy, it wears, last but not least: it is dangerous. In the old days it was mounted in a bunker, rather underground. For computer equipment there is no difference between 4 seconds and 0.5-1 second. UPS is a must for switching time. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
Ed Gould wrote: [...] its been an interesting discussion. Thanks all for contributing. One question remains in my mind though what is the allowable time power maybe interrupted to a CPU ? 1 NS (nanosecond) ? or 0 NS? or ? As I said in my original piece I am not familiar with UPS's and could some one come up with a current answer? If the answer is it depends that would be nice to know that, as well. Thanks. I can be wrong here, but I believe it is matter of voltage cycles, more precisely rather half of the cycle. I mean cycle of sinus-voltage (I don't know the term in English). It is about 10ms for Europe (50Hz) and 8,(3) for US (60Hz). Caution: YMMV. The time of outage *strongly depends* on several factors: - power supply type. When big capacitors are used, then the time tneds to be longer. The same for large trasformers. but those in use are so large. - the type of interruption. It can be plain blackout, or surge, pike, etc. - current power compsumption. Oversized PS should tend to work longer. - sensibility of the device. Some devices fail to work in case of small voltage drop, others are not so sensible. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2007 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci opacony) wynosi 118.064.140 z. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchwa XVI WZ z dnia 21.05.2003 r., kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 118.760.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:24:49 -0600, Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is not specifically MAINFRAME question But I ran across this article that talks about replacing their UPS with a fly wheel system (please read the article) at http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/ originalContent/0,289142,sid80_gci1288892,00.html? track=NL-455ad=619599asrc=EM_NLN_2844322uid=6570353 Watch the wrap above My problem with this way of doing UPS is that the article states that they can loose power a full second before the new UPS kicks in. SNIP I don't think the person that wrote that article was really up to speed on how this works. Many years ago I was taken to a TELCO site where this was done. Mind you, the TELCO ran a bank of batteries to run the phone system (this was just as touch tone was being introduced). But the batteries were between the phone system and the generator. The generator was turned by a large electric motor. That motor was connected to a large flywheel that was connected to a large diesel engine by an electrically controlled clutch. The inertia of the motor, flywheel and generator where such that when the capacitors ran down (which happened when there was a drop in external power), that diesel engine would go from 0RPM to 600+RPM in about 1/4 rotation (shook the floor when that happened!). And I happened to be there when it was triggered by a power glitch - that's how I know about the floor. Now as I understood at the time, that whole system was set up to take over if the external power dropped for about 1 second and run for 30 minutes past the last missing beat from the external AC power. And the ammeters at the end of the battery bank (about 24 feet long and four 12v batteries wide) hardly flickered. That was about 1964. Given the changes in technology in the past 40+ years, I would imagine that a flywheel spun up to 54,000 RPM (as the secondary article specified) should hold up for a few seconds anyhow, before some engine-generator system would have to kick in. Again, it would depend on the power requirements. But I would imagine it would be cheaper in the long run than the typical bank of batteries to drive a UPS. Later, Steve Thompson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:24:49 -0600, Ed Gould wrote: (please read the article) at http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid80_gci1288892,00.html?track=NL-455ad=619599asrc=EM_NLN_2844322uid=6570353 Watch the wrap above Repaired, I hope. You can avoid this problem by posting via the web interface rather than E-mail. Or get a non-broken MUA. My problem with this way of doing UPS is that the article states that they can loose power a full second before the new UPS kicks in. I am *NOT* knowledgeable in UPS's but to me a second is a way too much time to loose power and any computer (MF or PC) would roll over and die. Is my guess correct? I vaguely remember (read LONG time ago) that power interruptions that last longer that 500MS (microseconds) will Milliseconds. Microseconds is uS. And the power supply capacitors would hold for 500 uS, which is only about 12 degrees of phase at 60 Hz. bring most computers down rather quickly. I am *NOT* sure of the 500MS (it may have be less). Can anyone supply a better number? Or are they saying a (one) second outage is OK as they will have to reboot and so what? The phrase was even for a second or two. The article makes it pretty clear that the flywheels run all the time and there is zero interruption. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 21:12:47 -0600, Steve Thompson wrote: (please read the article) at http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid80_gci1288892,00.html?track=NL-455ad=619599asrc=EM_NLN_2844322uid=6570353 I don't think the person that wrote that article was really up to speed on how this works. That was about 1964. Given the changes in technology in the past 40+ years, I would imagine that a flywheel spun up to 54,000 RPM (as the secondary ... ) I'm skeptical about that. A back-of-the-envelope calculation says it's pulling a few hundred thousand gravities at the periphery (proportional to radius; make a reasonable assumption). And a rotor disrupts at a peripheral velocity roughly the speed of sound (not coincidence; both are some small coefficient times SQRT( elasticity / density ). Misplaced decimal point? Of course, at 900 Hz, you save a lot on power supply capacitors. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SEMI off topic
Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 21:12:47 -0600, Steve Thompson wrote: (please read the article) at http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid80_gci1288892,00.html?track=NL-455ad=619599asrc=EM_NLN_2844322uid=6570353 I don't think the person that wrote that article was really up to speed on how this works. That was about 1964. Given the changes in technology in the past 40+ years, I would imagine that a flywheel spun up to 54,000 RPM (as the secondary ... ) I'm skeptical about that. A back-of-the-envelope calculation says it's pulling a few hundred thousand gravities at the periphery (proportional to radius; make a reasonable assumption). And a rotor disrupts at a peripheral velocity roughly the speed of sound (not coincidence; both are some small coefficient times SQRT( elasticity / density ). Misplaced decimal point? Of course, at 900 Hz, you save a lot on power supply capacitors. -- gil Following talks about 60,000 rpm: http://www.processor.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles%2Fp2639%2F32p39%2F32p39.asp -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
