Re: JESS: [Jess] Visual programming.
Looking at the Jess Manual's Reference section, you can see the distinctions between (a) Jess Constructs and (b) Jess functions. (a) I can imagine that designing templates and left hand sides (for rules and queries) graphically could be nice to have. Graphics for templates would be very similar to what you have in UML for classes. But, as for the rules, ask yourself: Is there a way that a complex logical condition plus the bindings and the references to the bindings can be created, displayed and modified graphically more easily than textually? We're at the expression level of programming, and most visual systems just let you fill in a text box for those. (b) Programming in Jess is very much like programming in Lisp. If there are visual programming tools for Lisp, and if they are considered valuable, then you have the answer for Jess. I'd say that the control structures can be represented by something like Nassi-Shneiderman diagrams, but the rest, again, is expression level. But I expect that others might violently disagree with me, especially as I'm known to be rather reluctant to follow the Design-by-Diagram acolytes ;-) Regards Wolfgang ivo jonker wrote: Hello everyone, For my trainee-graduation-project i implemented Jess as a reasoner in a home-security/automation system. Now, part of the final phase of my assignment is to define a few new graduation-assignments for a follow-up trainee project. Now, i was wondering. Is there anything such as a visual programming tool to programm Jess-code? If not, would it be valuable to the Jess community to have such a tool/plugin? Kind regards, Ivo Jonker To unsubscribe, send the words 'unsubscribe jess-users [EMAIL PROTECTED]' in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], NOT to the list (use your own address!) List problems? Notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JESS: [Jess] Visual programming.
Here's my 2 cents on visual rule programming. Building a visual programming tool for rules is feasible, but it depends on the scope. Take lego mindstorm for example. It uses icons to denote an action or sensor, when the program is load on the mindstorm control, it's converted to executable code. the trick to building one for home automation/security would be to define the common actions and map them to an icon with the required parameters. For example, you might have one for turning on the outside lights and another for turning them off. If the scope is sufficiently narrow and well defined, it should be straight forward. What isn't desirable in my mind is creating a general purpose visual programming tool for writing arbitrary rules. My bias opinion is it's much better to write it in clips syntax directly. Another option is to have natural language rule authoring, instead of visual rule authoring. Again, the key is keeping the scope narrow and well defined. peter On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Wolfgang Laun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looking at the Jess Manual's Reference section, you can see the distinctions between (a) Jess Constructs and (b) Jess functions. (a) I can imagine that designing templates and left hand sides (for rules and queries) graphically could be nice to have. Graphics for templates would be very similar to what you have in UML for classes. But, as for the rules, ask yourself: Is there a way that a complex logical condition plus the bindings and the references to the bindings can be created, displayed and modified graphically more easily than textually? We're at the expression level of programming, and most visual systems just let you fill in a text box for those. (b) Programming in Jess is very much like programming in Lisp. If there are visual programming tools for Lisp, and if they are considered valuable, then you have the answer for Jess. I'd say that the control structures can be represented by something like Nassi-Shneiderman diagrams, but the rest, again, is expression level. But I expect that others might violently disagree with me, especially as I'm known to be rather reluctant to follow the Design-by-Diagram acolytes ;-) Regards Wolfgang ivo jonker wrote: Hello everyone, For my trainee-graduation-project i implemented Jess as a reasoner in a home-security/automation system. Now, part of the final phase of my assignment is to define a few new graduation-assignments for a follow-up trainee project. Now, i was wondering. Is there anything such as a visual programming tool to programm Jess-code? If not, would it be valuable to the Jess community to have such a tool/plugin? Kind regards, Ivo Jonker To unsubscribe, send the words 'unsubscribe jess-users [EMAIL PROTECTED]' in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], NOT to the list (use your own address!) List problems? Notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send the words 'unsubscribe jess-users [EMAIL PROTECTED]' in the BODY of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], NOT to the list (use your own address!) List problems? Notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JESS: [Jess] Visual programming.
Hi Ivo, I tend agree with Peter and Wolfgang that a Delphi-like or Visual Basic-like, drag-and-drop visual builder tool for general rule programming is not really needed -- besides, it's never going to be as comprehensive as simply writing raw code. However, what about tools that would assist rules programmers in designing applications at a higher level of abstraction than the expression level and the construct level (though certainly providing for them)? Specifically, consider a UML-like design/visualization tool that was Jess module-centric as opposed to Java class or package-centric. It would allow a developer to model the reasoning components of a rule-based application at a granularity above the code-level, while providing editing capability to drill-down into a particular module to implement and debug it. Furthermore, just as UML sequence diagrams document the message passing between objects in some context, such a tool could provide a similar diagram that documents the logical interaction between modules (i.e. how rules firing in module A affect the working memory of module B and so forth). It would help a developer to plan and test the high-level logic and reasoning first it before diving into the implementation. Take a look at the many tools in the MyEclipseIDE product, and you will see most have dual design/edit modes where developers can toggle between a high-level visualization of their application or component and the actual implementation code -- the one for visually building Struts apps comes to mind http://www.myeclipseide.com/htmlpages-func-display-pid-13.html http://www.myeclipseide.com/htmlpages-func-display-pid-13.html%20(scroll 1/3 down page). Ever seen Protege? http://protege.stanford.edu/ http://protege.stanford.edu/%20 There might be some synergy with that, too. -Jason --- Jason Morris Morris Technical Solutions LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] (517) 304-5883
Re: JESS: [Jess] Visual programming.
Hello, although it is not specific for Jess, this visual tool for rule modeling seems to be currently in development: Strelka - A Visual Rule Modeling Tool http://oxygen.informatik.tu-cottbus.de/rewerse-i1/?q=node/46 The manual says that Jess code can be generated. Maybe some of its authors could explain us more details. Regards Joaquín ivo jonker escribió: Hello everyone, For my trainee-graduation-project i implemented Jess as a reasoner in a home-security/automation system. Now, part of the final phase of my assignment is to define a few new graduation-assignments for a follow-up trainee project. Now, i was wondering. Is there anything such as a visual programming tool to programm Jess-code? If not, would it be valuable to the Jess community to have such a tool/plugin? Kind regards, Ivo Jonker
