Re: [jQuery] New Forums
I was able to use my Google account to logon and didn't have to supply any info. I also haven't received any emails. When I click the Login button, below the Username and Password fields are other options for logging in, either a Google account or a Yahoo! account. It also looks like a Google Apps account. Hope this helps, Joe Moore On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Shawn sgro...@open2space.com wrote: My apologies to the list managers. I did not mean to belittle their efforts in any way. I only meant to state that for me, personally, forums are not the preferred tool. I am involved in a number of organizations where the main mantra is the concept of a do-aucracy. If you think it should be done a particular way, do it. For this list, this means that the list managers have DONE it, and so they get to make the rules. I don't pretend to know all the considerations that went into the choices that were made. But, I find it unacceptable that I have to give my contact information to zoho.com so that I can use a forum on jquery.com. (as suggested by Andre in a different posting on this thread). For some reason it is deemed ok for our account info (and everything related to it) to be accessible by absolute anyone. Whether it is a FaceBook account, a GMail account, etc. I have put the brakes on for this trend and refuse to give my information away to third party sites that have nothing to do with what I'm trying to do. No offense intended to the zoho gang, as I do not know them or their intentions/purposes. But I'll just say no. My thoughts. Shawn Shawn wrote: I received this email as well. I don't know if it is legitimate or not tough. Nor do I care. Web based forums DO NOT WORK for my needs. I cannot do a quick scan of topics in a forum without first opening a browser and going to that forum. Whereas with an email list, I scan my email frequently during the day as part of my usual routine. So, if the mailing list is to disappear, I for one will not spend t much effort trying to replace it with a web forum. I can always use the IRC channel when I need assistance. To be fair though, I can see why there would be a desire to shift away from Google Groups. I will likely take a look at the forum to see what's what, but doubt it fill my needs. Still, there are other alternatives than a web forum (i.e. mailman). My thoughts. Shawn Matt Quackenbush wrote: Hello, I received an email inviting me to join the new jQuery forums. It contained a username and password for me to use. However, when I try to login, I am told that my email address has not been confirmed and therefore cannot do so. A link to a help page is given whereby I can allegedly have a confirmation email sent by following a list of instructions. Interestingly enough, the very first step given in the instructions is to login. I thought that perhaps I would be able to do so at the link given, but alas an attempt to login there results in the exact same message and help link being presented. Any suggestions on how to actually login/activate would be appreciated. :-)
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
From: brian zijn.digi...@gmail.com FWIW, I'm pretty sure the decision to drop Google Groups is due to John Ressig's account being spoofed by spammers. It's happened to me, also. That, too, is unacceptable. I vote for Mailman, or some other well-established list software. I won't register with zoho, either. ++ Octavian
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
Agreed. On 22 Jan 2010, at 00:38, Matt Quackenbush wrote: Well stated, Shawn. I wholeheartedly concur. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
+vote for Mailman. On 22 Jan 2010, at 08:41, Octavian Râşniţă wrote: From: brian zijn.digi...@gmail.com FWIW, I'm pretty sure the decision to drop Google Groups is due to John Ressig's account being spoofed by spammers. It's happened to me, also. That, too, is unacceptable. I vote for Mailman, or some other well-established list software. I won't register with zoho, either. ++ Octavian smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
On Jan 21, 2010, at 8:11 PM, brian wrote: FWIW, I'm pretty sure the decision to drop Google Groups is due to John Ressig's account being spoofed by spammers. No, that's not it. Okay, maybe it was one of the last straws, but we've been talking about moving to a forum for a couple years now. If you want to know what factors were involved in the decision, please read http://jquery14.com/day-07/new-jquery-forum/ To be honest, I've never been a fan of forums, either. But after spending some time in the jQuery forum, I'm starting to appreciate its advantages over a plain mailing list. I wish there were a solution out there that is ideal for everyone. Unfortunately, though, every solution comes with its own set of compromises. --Karl Karl Swedberg www.englishrules.com www.learningjquery.com
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
From: Karl Swedberg k...@englishrules.com On Jan 21, 2010, at 8:11 PM, brian wrote: FWIW, I'm pretty sure the decision to drop Google Groups is due to John Ressig's account being spoofed by spammers. No, that's not it. Okay, maybe it was one of the last straws, but we've been talking about moving to a forum for a couple years now. If you want to know what factors were involved in the decision, please read http://jquery14.com/day-07/new-jquery-forum/ I read that: Additionally, we wanted something that lowered the barrier to asking a question - something that anyone would be able to use Well, for some categories of users, the movement to a forum has done exactly the reverse, because a forum is much less accessible than a mailing list for screen reader users for example, but for other categories of users also. For example, if a user uses a good mail client, he or she could configure it so all the messages from the list to go to a specific folder, the messages that contain some words in the subjects or in the body to go to another special folder as they arrive, the messages are automaticly grouped by conversation, and they can easier be all saved locally or all deleted (or individually). The best solution from the perspective of the users would be to have a mailing list system that can also offer and present the messages on the web, but this would involve more work for JQuery developers, and it seems that this idea is the best, but there is nobody willing to help doing and administering it. So the JQuery developers have chosen to use a forum which is administered by somebody else. That's very OK, but I think at least the JQuery mailing lists should not be disabled, while there still are users that prefer using them. To be honest, I've never been a fan of forums, either. But after spending some time in the jQuery forum, I'm starting to appreciate its advantages over a plain mailing list. Can you please tell us which are those advantages? (in general, not only regarding JQuery forum.) Thanks. Octavian
RE: [jQuery] New Forums
But isn't it possible to have our cake and eat it, too in this situation? I'm a member of the CF-Talk (ColdFusion) group and we use both a mailing list and an online system. (I'm hesitant to call the online system a forum because it may not fit the accepted definition of a forum). However, people can go online and use the system for reading the mail and search the archives, or they can just use their email for the same messages, as I do. The main difference between the two, I think, is that House of Fusion runs their own servers and software, whereas, it looks like John is outsourcing that work, which is understandable. But there out to be a solution that provides both forum and email solutions simultaneously. Surely, if someone chooses it, there is an option to send all messages to someone's email address and not just messages from particular threads. Perhaps John, et al, should go over to www.HouseOfFusion.com and see how it's being doing there and discuss this issue with those that control the CF-Talk list, as well as the other lists that are present, such as CF-Newbie. (I've always thought and have suggested that a jQuery-Newbie list would be of great benefit to the jQuery community to separate the beginner questions from the advanced side of things. I just know, that as busy as I am, I won't have time or the desire to visit a forum constantly and check what people are posting. I do read people's posts and even if I don't know the answer, I read responses to learn and help when I can. I have to be in my email constantly for client communications and taking the jQuery list out of my central area of communications (email) is going to kill my participation in the jQuery list, unfortunately. Rick From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:jquery...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karl Swedberg Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 9:30 AM To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [jQuery] New Forums On Jan 21, 2010, at 8:11 PM, brian wrote: FWIW, I'm pretty sure the decision to drop Google Groups is due to John Ressig's account being spoofed by spammers. No, that's not it. Okay, maybe it was one of the last straws, but we've been talking about moving to a forum for a couple years now. If you want to know what factors were involved in the decision, please read http://jquery14.com/day-07/new-jquery-forum/ To be honest, I've never been a fan of forums, either. But after spending some time in the jQuery forum, I'm starting to appreciate its advantages over a plain mailing list. I wish there were a solution out there that is ideal for everyone. Unfortunately, though, every solution comes with its own set of compromises. --Karl Karl Swedberg www.englishrules.com www.learningjquery.com
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
Same here. I read the emails daily. A forum that emails as well, is a better option. Hell, I¹d even be willing to setup something on my colo if it would help out. John would have all the control he needs. Thanks Steffan --- T E L 6 0 2 . 7 9 3 . 0 0 1 4 | F A X 6 0 2 . 9 7 1 . 1 6 9 4 Steffan A. Cline stef...@execuchoice.net Phoenix, Az http://www.ExecuChoice.net USA AIM : SteffanC ICQ : 57234309 YAHOO : Steffan_Cline MSN : stef...@hldns.com GOOGLE: Steffan.Cline Lasso Partner Alliance Member --- From: Rick Faircloth r...@whitestonemedia.com Organization: White Stone Media Reply-To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:31:38 -0500 To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [jQuery] New Forums But isn¹t it possible to ³have our cake and eat it, too² in this situation? I¹m a member of the CF-Talk (ColdFusion) group and we use both a mailing list and an online system. (I¹m hesitant to call the online system a ³forum² because it may not fit the accepted definition of a forum). However, people can go online and use the system for reading the mail and search the archives, or they can just use their email for the same messages, as I do. The main difference between the two, I think, is that House of Fusion runs their own servers and software, whereas, it looks like John is outsourcing that work, which is understandable. But there out to be a solution that provides both forum and email solutions simultaneously. Surely, if someone chooses it, there is an option to send all messages to someone¹s email address and not just messages from particular threads. Perhaps John, et al, should go over to www.HouseOfFusion.com http://www.HouseOfFusion.com and see how it¹s being doing there and discuss this issue with those that control the CF-Talk list, as well as the other lists that are present, such as CF-Newbie. (I¹ve always thought and have suggested that a jQuery-Newbie list would be of great benefit to the jQuery community to separate the beginner questions from the advanced side of things. I just know, that as busy as I am, I won¹t have time or the desire to visit a forum constantly and check what people are posting. I do read people¹s posts and even if I don¹t know the answer, I read responses to learn and help when I can. I have to be in my email constantly for client communications and taking the jQuery list out of my central area of communications (email) is going to kill my participation in the jQuery list, unfortunately. Rick From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:jquery...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karl Swedberg Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 9:30 AM To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [jQuery] New Forums On Jan 21, 2010, at 8:11 PM, brian wrote: FWIW, I'm pretty sure the decision to drop Google Groups is due to John Ressig's account being spoofed by spammers. No, that's not it. Okay, maybe it was one of the last straws, but we've been talking about moving to a forum for a couple years now. If you want to know what factors were involved in the decision, please read http://jquery14.com/day-07/new-jquery-forum/ To be honest, I've never been a fan of forums, either. But after spending some time in the jQuery forum, I'm starting to appreciate its advantages over a plain mailing list. I wish there were a solution out there that is ideal for everyone. Unfortunately, though, every solution comes with its own set of compromises. --Karl Karl Swedberg www.englishrules.com http://www.englishrules.com www.learningjquery.com http://www.learningjquery.com
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Octavian Rasnita orasn...@gmail.comwrote: From: Karl Swedberg k...@englishrules.com On Jan 21, 2010, at 8:11 PM, brian wrote: FWIW, I'm pretty sure the decision to drop Google Groups is due to John Ressig's account being spoofed by spammers. No, that's not it. Okay, maybe it was one of the last straws, but we've been talking about moving to a forum for a couple years now. If you want to know what factors were involved in the decision, please read http://jquery14.com/day-07/new-jquery-forum/ I read that: Additionally, we wanted something that lowered the barrier to asking a question - something that anyone would be able to use Well, for some categories of users, the movement to a forum has done exactly the reverse, because a forum is much less accessible than a mailing list for screen reader users for example, but for other categories of users also. For example, if a user uses a good mail client, he or she could configure it so all the messages from the list to go to a specific folder, the messages that contain some words in the subjects or in the body to go to another special folder as they arrive, the messages are automaticly grouped by conversation, and they can easier be all saved locally or all deleted (or individually). And if a user has a good rss reader they can do the same with a forum. Also, using rss2email services, they could have the best of both worlds. The best solution from the perspective of the users would be to have a mailing list system that can also offer and present the messages on the web, but this would involve more work for JQuery developers, and it seems that this idea is the best, but there is nobody willing to help doing and administering it. So the JQuery developers have chosen to use a forum which is administered by somebody else. That's very OK, but I think at least the JQuery mailing lists should not be disabled, while there still are users that prefer using them. I don't know that they will be disabled, but if not they will be completely unmoderated. This means way more spam than before. In addition, many active contributors, including jQuery team members, have moved over to the forum, so there will be a lot less traffic on the mailing lists. People may still find help and answers, but it won't be the official forum. Just as before when the mailing list was the official forum, people found answers elsewhere. To be honest, I've never been a fan of forums, either. But after spending some time in the jQuery forum, I'm starting to appreciate its advantages over a plain mailing list. Can you please tell us which are those advantages? (in general, not only regarding JQuery forum.) *Tags* I tag and filter emails, and it's been really nice. But it's always bothered me that all the tagging and filtering I do has to be duplicated by everyone else consuming the same content. Using tags on the website forum, all this metadata can be shared. *Types* On the forum, there are 5 type of threads: Discussions, Questions, Ideas, Problems, and Announcements. These can be selected by the OP and corrected be a moderator, and searched and filtered on. Another piece of shared metadata. *Categories* Before we had 5 or 6 mailing lists for different sub-topics. Many times a day as a moderator, I would have to kindly ask someone to move a discussion to the correct forum, to keep noise down, to keep the list on-topic, and to ensure people saw the question and the answer in the right place, whether via email or web archive. This was not only a real pain, but it's not that much fun for anyone involved, especially new users that may not have a clue that there's more than one list, or which list to post to: jquery-en, jquery-dev, jquery-ui, jquery-ui-dev, jquery-a11y, etc. On the new website forum, not only is it easier to see which top-level forum topics are available for posting, but if something is posted in the wrong forum, a moderator can simply select 'Move this topic' and then select the correct sub-forum. That immediately reflects in any sorting, filtering, or categorization anyone does. Another piece of shared metadata. *Status* In addition to being able to tag, type, and categorize each thread, a moderator and/or the OP can set the status of a thread. The OP can select an answer as the best, meaning future visitors can read 2 messages instead of 20. Moderators can set the status as 'more info needed', closed, answered, open, in-progress, etc. All these statuses can be used in sorting and filtering. Another piece of shared metadata. Noticing a trend? *Moderation edit controls* Posts can be edited. This isn't possible with email, since the message was already sent. And the web archive stores only the original message. This needs to be used judiciously, but can be great for fixing typographical errors, adding some important keywords to a thread topic, fixing some formatting, etc. *Permalinks* Have
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
Want mailing list back ;( - Original Message - From: Richard D. Worth To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:31 AM Subject: Re: [jQuery] New Forums On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Octavian Rasnita orasn...@gmail.com wrote: From: Karl Swedberg k...@englishrules.com On Jan 21, 2010, at 8:11 PM, brian wrote: FWIW, I'm pretty sure the decision to drop Google Groups is due to John Ressig's account being spoofed by spammers. No, that's not it. Okay, maybe it was one of the last straws, but we've been talking about moving to a forum for a couple years now. If you want to know what factors were involved in the decision, please read http://jquery14.com/day-07/new-jquery-forum/ I read that: Additionally, we wanted something that lowered the barrier to asking a question - something that anyone would be able to use Well, for some categories of users, the movement to a forum has done exactly the reverse, because a forum is much less accessible than a mailing list for screen reader users for example, but for other categories of users also. For example, if a user uses a good mail client, he or she could configure it so all the messages from the list to go to a specific folder, the messages that contain some words in the subjects or in the body to go to another special folder as they arrive, the messages are automaticly grouped by conversation, and they can easier be all saved locally or all deleted (or individually). And if a user has a good rss reader they can do the same with a forum. Also, using rss2email services, they could have the best of both worlds. The best solution from the perspective of the users would be to have a mailing list system that can also offer and present the messages on the web, but this would involve more work for JQuery developers, and it seems that this idea is the best, but there is nobody willing to help doing and administering it. So the JQuery developers have chosen to use a forum which is administered by somebody else. That's very OK, but I think at least the JQuery mailing lists should not be disabled, while there still are users that prefer using them. I don't know that they will be disabled, but if not they will be completely unmoderated. This means way more spam than before. In addition, many active contributors, including jQuery team members, have moved over to the forum, so there will be a lot less traffic on the mailing lists. People may still find help and answers, but it won't be the official forum. Just as before when the mailing list was the official forum, people found answers elsewhere. To be honest, I've never been a fan of forums, either. But after spending some time in the jQuery forum, I'm starting to appreciate its advantages over a plain mailing list. Can you please tell us which are those advantages? (in general, not only regarding JQuery forum.) Tags I tag and filter emails, and it's been really nice. But it's always bothered me that all the tagging and filtering I do has to be duplicated by everyone else consuming the same content. Using tags on the website forum, all this metadata can be shared. Types On the forum, there are 5 type of threads: Discussions, Questions, Ideas, Problems, and Announcements. These can be selected by the OP and corrected be a moderator, and searched and filtered on. Another piece of shared metadata. Categories Before we had 5 or 6 mailing lists for different sub-topics. Many times a day as a moderator, I would have to kindly ask someone to move a discussion to the correct forum, to keep noise down, to keep the list on-topic, and to ensure people saw the question and the answer in the right place, whether via email or web archive. This was not only a real pain, but it's not that much fun for anyone involved, especially new users that may not have a clue that there's more than one list, or which list to post to: jquery-en, jquery-dev, jquery-ui, jquery-ui-dev, jquery-a11y, etc. On the new website forum, not only is it easier to see which top-level forum topics are available for posting, but if something is posted in the wrong forum, a moderator can simply select 'Move this topic' and then select the correct sub-forum. That immediately reflects in any sorting, filtering, or categorization anyone does. Another piece of shared metadata. Status In addition to being able to tag, type, and categorize each thread, a moderator and/or the OP can set the status of a thread. The OP can select an answer as the best, meaning future visitors can read 2 messages instead of 20. Moderators can set the status as 'more info needed', closed, answered, open, in-progress, etc. All these statuses can be used in sorting and filtering. Another piece of shared metadata. Noticing a trend? Moderation edit
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
From: Richard D. Worth rdwo...@gmail.com On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Octavian Rasnita orasn...@gmail.comwrote: For example, if a user uses a good mail client, he or she could configure it so all the messages from the list to go to a specific folder, the messages that contain some words in the subjects or in the body to go to another special folder as they arrive, the messages are automaticly grouped by conversation, and they can easier be all saved locally or all deleted (or individually). And if a user has a good rss reader they can do the same with a forum. Also, There are no good RSS readers. (that work with a screen reader as well as a mail client). using rss2email services, they could have the best of both worlds. I don't know any RSS2email service, but I don't think it offers the same features like a mailing list, because the user that reads messages can't reply to a message they receive. I don't know that they will be disabled, but if not they will be completely unmoderated. This means way more spam than before. In addition, many active contributors, including jQuery team members, have moved over to the forum, so there will be a lot less traffic on the mailing lists. People may still find help and answers, but it won't be the official forum. Just as before when the mailing list was the official forum, people found answers elsewhere. That's OK. Much better than no mailing list at all. *Tags* I tag and filter emails, and it's been really nice. But it's always bothered me that all the tagging and filtering I do has to be duplicated by everyone else consuming the same content. Using tags on the website forum, all this metadata can be shared. Most mailing list users just read the messages and post a question when they want an answer for a specific question. For that type of users the tags are useless. *Types* On the forum, there are 5 type of threads: Discussions, Questions, Ideas, Problems, and Announcements. These can be selected by the OP and corrected be a moderator, and searched and filtered on. Another piece of shared metadata. I find much easier to use a Find in Outlook Express in the saved messages or even in Deleted items where I have tens of thousand messages, and the results are much more accessible, presented in a standard list that can be navigated easier than a web page. *Categories* Before we had 5 or 6 mailing lists for different sub-topics. Many times a day as a moderator, I would have to kindly ask someone to move a discussion to the correct forum, to keep noise down, to keep the list on-topic, and to ensure people saw the question and the answer in the right place, whether via email or web archive. This was not only a real pain, but it's not that much fun for anyone involved, especially new users that may not have a clue that there's more than one list, or which list to post to: jquery-en, jquery-dev, jquery-ui, jquery-ui-dev, jquery-a11y, etc. On the new website forum, not only is it easier to see which top-level forum topics are available for posting, but if something is posted in the wrong forum, a moderator can simply select 'Move this topic' and then select the correct sub-forum. That immediately reflects in any sorting, filtering, or categorization anyone does. Another piece of shared metadata. I understand you, but don't present this as an advantage, because it is an advantage for just a few people, the most helpful people from the list, but with a zero importance for the tens of thousand list members. *Status* In addition to being able to tag, type, and categorize each thread, a moderator and/or the OP can set the status of a thread. The OP can select an answer as the best, meaning future visitors can read 2 messages instead of 20. Moderators can set the status as 'more info needed', closed, answered, open, in-progress, etc. All these statuses can be used in sorting and filtering. Another piece of shared metadata. Like in Wikipedia's case, I never search with Wikipedia's search engine, but I use Google. If I want to find something regarding JQuery, I will also use Google, and not just a certain forum. So this feature has a very low importance. If the web would be as accessible as a desktop app, I would probably search on a single forum, but it isn't. Noticing a trend? *Moderation edit controls* Posts can be edited. This isn't possible with email, since the message was already sent. And the web archive stores only the original message. This needs to be used judiciously, but can be great for fixing typographical errors, adding some important keywords to a thread topic, fixing some formatting, etc. This is not important. I prefer to find something as fast as possible, even if it contain typographical errors But I don't find it important probably because I am not a moderator, just like the case of almost all the list members. *Permalinks* Have you ever tried to email someone a google groups mailing
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
On Jan 22, 2010, at 12:54 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote: With the web-based forum, while on the thread you want to email or link to 1. Click 'Permalink' I can't click because I can't use a mouse. I need to press probably tens of tab keys until I find that link, and if I type too fast I might skip it and need to tab over the same links for more times. And after I press enter on that link I would need to jump over more other page parts until I reach to the real body of the message. While most of the other complaints in this thread seem to be based on personal preference, this one is a serious issue. We have raised the issue of keyboard accessibility with the Zoho team, and they're working to ameliorate it. Oh yes it is, because a web page doesn't offer the same accessibility features for a screen reader as a desktop app does. And unfortunately most RSS readers also use a web format, so they are not better accessible at all. There are plenty of desktop RSS readers available for PC and Mac. --Karl
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
From: Karl Swedberg k...@englishrules.com On Jan 22, 2010, at 12:54 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote: With the web-based forum, while on the thread you want to email or link to 1. Click 'Permalink' I can't click because I can't use a mouse. I need to press probably tens of tab keys until I find that link, and if I type too fast I might skip it and need to tab over the same links for more times. And after I press enter on that link I would need to jump over more other page parts until I reach to the real body of the message. While most of the other complaints in this thread seem to be based on personal preference, this one is a serious issue. We have raised the issue of keyboard accessibility with the Zoho team, and they're working to ameliorate it. Not only some, but all I said are based on personal preferences, because if I wouldn't prefer that way, I wouldn't tell you about it. :-) I didn't even tested too much the new forum, because no matter how accessible would be a web page, it would be always less accessible and usable than a good desktop app, so the usability is the one that matters, not only accessibility. As an example, for moving to the next unread message in Outlook Express, I just need to press a single hotkey (Ctrl+U). If I want to delete that message (or thread, because it can cover a whole discussion), I just need to press a single Del key. If the same things can be done at least as easy as this, I would instantly start to like the forums. Oh yes it is, because a web page doesn't offer the same accessibility features for a screen reader as a desktop app does. And unfortunately most RSS readers also use a web format, so they are not better accessible at all. There are plenty of desktop RSS readers available for PC and Mac. I know, but most of them use an internal window that uses HTML, because most RSS content includes HTML code, so it is the same thing, or even worse, because at least Internet Explorer and Firefox have some scripts for the screen reader that make them more accessible, but those RSS reader don't have such a thing. I haven't tested all RSS readers ever made, but not all the desktop apps are accessible for screen readers. For example the TK/GTK interfaces are not accessible at all (under Windows), The Java SWING-based interfaces are very hard accessible and slow responsive with JAWS (the screen reader I use), the QT interfaces are also not accessible at all... even the DotNet (Windows Forms) have accessibility issues. If it would be easier to use a forum, I would gladly start using one. Octavian
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
My apologies to the list managers. I did not mean to belittle their efforts in any way. I only meant to state that for me, personally, forums are not the preferred tool. I am involved in a number of organizations where the main mantra is the concept of a do-aucracy. If you think it should be done a particular way, do it. For this list, this means that the list managers have DONE it, and so they get to make the rules. I don't pretend to know all the considerations that went into the choices that were made. But, I find it unacceptable that I have to give my contact information to zoho.com so that I can use a forum on jquery.com. (as suggested by Andre in a different posting on this thread). For some reason it is deemed ok for our account info (and everything related to it) to be accessible by absolute anyone. Whether it is a FaceBook account, a GMail account, etc. I have put the brakes on for this trend and refuse to give my information away to third party sites that have nothing to do with what I'm trying to do. No offense intended to the zoho gang, as I do not know them or their intentions/purposes. But I'll just say no. My thoughts. Shawn Shawn wrote: I received this email as well. I don't know if it is legitimate or not tough. Nor do I care. Web based forums DO NOT WORK for my needs. I cannot do a quick scan of topics in a forum without first opening a browser and going to that forum. Whereas with an email list, I scan my email frequently during the day as part of my usual routine. So, if the mailing list is to disappear, I for one will not spend t much effort trying to replace it with a web forum. I can always use the IRC channel when I need assistance. To be fair though, I can see why there would be a desire to shift away from Google Groups. I will likely take a look at the forum to see what's what, but doubt it fill my needs. Still, there are other alternatives than a web forum (i.e. mailman). My thoughts. Shawn Matt Quackenbush wrote: Hello, I received an email inviting me to join the new jQuery forums. It contained a username and password for me to use. However, when I try to login, I am told that my email address has not been confirmed and therefore cannot do so. A link to a help page is given whereby I can allegedly have a confirmation email sent by following a list of instructions. Interestingly enough, the very first step given in the instructions is to login. I thought that perhaps I would be able to do so at the link given, but alas an attempt to login there results in the exact same message and help link being presented. Any suggestions on how to actually login/activate would be appreciated. :-)
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
Well stated, Shawn. I wholeheartedly concur.
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Shawn sgro...@open2space.com wrote: My apologies to the list managers. I did not mean to belittle their efforts in any way. I only meant to state that for me, personally, forums are not the preferred tool. I am involved in a number of organizations where the main mantra is the concept of a do-aucracy. If you think it should be done a particular way, do it. For this list, this means that the list managers have DONE it, and so they get to make the rules. I don't pretend to know all the considerations that went into the choices that were made. But, I find it unacceptable that I have to give my contact information to zoho.com so that I can use a forum on jquery.com. (as suggested by Andre in a different posting on this thread). For some reason it is deemed ok for our account info (and everything related to it) to be accessible by absolute anyone. Whether it is a FaceBook account, a GMail account, etc. I have put the brakes on for this trend and refuse to give my information away to third party sites that have nothing to do with what I'm trying to do. No offense intended to the zoho gang, as I do not know them or their intentions/purposes. But I'll just say no. My thoughts. My thoughts, also. FWIW, I'm pretty sure the decision to drop Google Groups is due to John Ressig's account being spoofed by spammers. It's happened to me, also. That, too, is unacceptable. I vote for Mailman, or some other well-established list software. I won't register with zoho, either.
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
A little quibble I'd like to add is that, as a plugin developer who has been relying on filtering incoming emails to support the plugins, now I have no way to easily do so, since the forums can't email me everything that's happening. I think a workaround is being instated, but I'm not sure. I've also tried to reset my pw at the forums two times and each time it emails me the password confirm link and takes me right back to the beginning, so I have no idea how to actually confirm my registration. Ug? - Jack Matt Quackenbush wrote: Well stated, Shawn. I wholeheartedly concur.
Re: [jQuery] new forums used?
In my case, I just have access to my email via outlook (cuz of my job).. it will be a shame not to read, ask or contribute with you. - Original Message - From: Rick Faircloth r...@whitestonemedia.com To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 12:17 PM Subject: RE: [jQuery] new forums used? it is easier to use a spammed mailing list than a forum. Yes... I would gladly put up with some spam to keep all messages flowing to my inbox, rather than having to use a forum. I can filter the spam as it arrives... -Original Message- From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:jquery...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:04 PM To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [jQuery] new forums used? From: Nathan Klatt n8kl...@gmail.com On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Octavian Rasnita orasn...@gmail.com wrote: If some of the users won't like the forum, they would be able to use the mailing lists, while if other users wouldn't want to receive the emails from the mailing list they could just unsubscribe, so the mailing lists won't hurt anyone. The mailing list is great but what's expected to happen shortly after they stop moderating it, reportedly a significant effort, is the list will be overrun by spammers. Hopefully their fears are unfounded but I'm not holding my breath. Nice knowin' y'all. ;) Well, this is not important at all. If the mailing list subscribers will dislike that spam so much, they will be able to unsubscribe anytime, but maybe some of them will happily accept that spam and also like to continue using the list. I am subscribed to the list with a Gmail address that takes care of most of the spam, and I also have an anti-spam application for other email accounts I use, so it is easier to use a spammed mailing list than a forum. Octavian
RE: [jQuery] new forums used?
Hi, David... What do you find more appealing about forums than an email list? Rick -Original Message- From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:jquery...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of speedpac...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 9:50 AM To: jQuery (English) Subject: [jQuery] new forums used? Hi there, I just noticed this group is still having lots of activity. I for one am very pleased to see we're moving to actual forum on forum.jquery.com, but it appears that moderation isn't done there yet (or I'm just too impatient...) Are we supposed to continue posting here, or was my first idea right to start using the new forum? Thanks so much for a fantastic library, great support, and a marvellous spirit :) David.
Re: [jQuery] new forums used?
If the forum is prefered by some users, that's OK, but I don't think it is a good idea to kill the mailing lists, because there are many users that prefer reading a mailing list. The forums will *always* be much less accessible for the blind users for example so it would be much helpful if both ways of communicating will coexist. If some of the users won't like the forum, they would be able to use the mailing lists, while if other users wouldn't want to receive the emails from the mailing list they could just unsubscribe, so the mailing lists won't hurt anyone. Octavian - Original Message - From: speedpac...@gmail.com To: jQuery (English) jquery-en@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 4:50 PM Subject: [jQuery] new forums used? Hi there, I just noticed this group is still having lots of activity. I for one am very pleased to see we're moving to actual forum on forum.jquery.com, but it appears that moderation isn't done there yet (or I'm just too impatient...) Are we supposed to continue posting here, or was my first idea right to start using the new forum? Thanks so much for a fantastic library, great support, and a marvellous spirit :) David.
Re: [jQuery] new forums used?
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Octavian Rasnita orasn...@gmail.com wrote: If some of the users won't like the forum, they would be able to use the mailing lists, while if other users wouldn't want to receive the emails from the mailing list they could just unsubscribe, so the mailing lists won't hurt anyone. The mailing list is great but what's expected to happen shortly after they stop moderating it, reportedly a significant effort, is the list will be overrun by spammers. Hopefully their fears are unfounded but I'm not holding my breath. Nice knowin' y'all. ;) Nathan
RE: [jQuery] new forums used?
+ 1 Why not have both? (beside possible spammers)... I use the CF-Talk list constantly and it's email- and forum-based. Messages go to both email and the forum. Does the forum have subscribe to this thread capability? What the URL for the forum, anyway? Rick -Original Message- From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:jquery...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 11:05 AM To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [jQuery] new forums used? If the forum is prefered by some users, that's OK, but I don't think it is a good idea to kill the mailing lists, because there are many users that prefer reading a mailing list. The forums will *always* be much less accessible for the blind users for example so it would be much helpful if both ways of communicating will coexist. If some of the users won't like the forum, they would be able to use the mailing lists, while if other users wouldn't want to receive the emails from the mailing list they could just unsubscribe, so the mailing lists won't hurt anyone. Octavian - Original Message - From: speedpac...@gmail.com To: jQuery (English) jquery-en@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 4:50 PM Subject: [jQuery] new forums used? Hi there, I just noticed this group is still having lots of activity. I for one am very pleased to see we're moving to actual forum on forum.jquery.com, but it appears that moderation isn't done there yet (or I'm just too impatient...) Are we supposed to continue posting here, or was my first idea right to start using the new forum? Thanks so much for a fantastic library, great support, and a marvellous spirit :) David.
Re: [jQuery] new forums used?
From: Nathan Klatt n8kl...@gmail.com On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Octavian Rasnita orasn...@gmail.com wrote: If some of the users won't like the forum, they would be able to use the mailing lists, while if other users wouldn't want to receive the emails from the mailing list they could just unsubscribe, so the mailing lists won't hurt anyone. The mailing list is great but what's expected to happen shortly after they stop moderating it, reportedly a significant effort, is the list will be overrun by spammers. Hopefully their fears are unfounded but I'm not holding my breath. Nice knowin' y'all. ;) Well, this is not important at all. If the mailing list subscribers will dislike that spam so much, they will be able to unsubscribe anytime, but maybe some of them will happily accept that spam and also like to continue using the list. I am subscribed to the list with a Gmail address that takes care of most of the spam, and I also have an anti-spam application for other email accounts I use, so it is easier to use a spammed mailing list than a forum. Octavian
RE: [jQuery] new forums used?
it is easier to use a spammed mailing list than a forum. Yes... I would gladly put up with some spam to keep all messages flowing to my inbox, rather than having to use a forum. I can filter the spam as it arrives... -Original Message- From: jquery-en@googlegroups.com [mailto:jquery...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:04 PM To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [jQuery] new forums used? From: Nathan Klatt n8kl...@gmail.com On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Octavian Rasnita orasn...@gmail.com wrote: If some of the users won't like the forum, they would be able to use the mailing lists, while if other users wouldn't want to receive the emails from the mailing list they could just unsubscribe, so the mailing lists won't hurt anyone. The mailing list is great but what's expected to happen shortly after they stop moderating it, reportedly a significant effort, is the list will be overrun by spammers. Hopefully their fears are unfounded but I'm not holding my breath. Nice knowin' y'all. ;) Well, this is not important at all. If the mailing list subscribers will dislike that spam so much, they will be able to unsubscribe anytime, but maybe some of them will happily accept that spam and also like to continue using the list. I am subscribed to the list with a Gmail address that takes care of most of the spam, and I also have an anti-spam application for other email accounts I use, so it is easier to use a spammed mailing list than a forum. Octavian
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
I received this email as well. I don't know if it is legitimate or not tough. Nor do I care. Web based forums DO NOT WORK for my needs. I cannot do a quick scan of topics in a forum without first opening a browser and going to that forum. Whereas with an email list, I scan my email frequently during the day as part of my usual routine. So, if the mailing list is to disappear, I for one will not spend t much effort trying to replace it with a web forum. I can always use the IRC channel when I need assistance. To be fair though, I can see why there would be a desire to shift away from Google Groups. I will likely take a look at the forum to see what's what, but doubt it fill my needs. Still, there are other alternatives than a web forum (i.e. mailman). My thoughts. Shawn Matt Quackenbush wrote: Hello, I received an email inviting me to join the new jQuery forums. It contained a username and password for me to use. However, when I try to login, I am told that my email address has not been confirmed and therefore cannot do so. A link to a help page is given whereby I can allegedly have a confirmation email sent by following a list of instructions. Interestingly enough, the very first step given in the instructions is to login. I thought that perhaps I would be able to do so at the link given, but alas an attempt to login there results in the exact same message and help link being presented. Any suggestions on how to actually login/activate would be appreciated. :-)
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
I concur regarding mailing list vs. forum. Both have their positives and negatives, but these days I definitely prefer a mailing list over forums. Perhaps the jQuery team could not find another mailing list that would import all of the existing posts on Google Groups? (My understanding is that they were able to do just that with the new forums.)
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com wrote: I concur regarding mailing list vs. forum. Both have their positives and negatives, but these days I definitely prefer a mailing list over forums. Perhaps the jQuery team could not find another mailing list that would import all of the existing posts on Google Groups? (My understanding is that they were able to do just that with the new forums.) Count another vote against a forum. I haven't been very active on the list of late, but i certainly would not be inclined to login to a forum everyday to browse the list to see where i might help. I much prefer using an email list. Mailman has always worked well for me. I tried to log in with the same result, btw.
Re: [jQuery] New Forums
The mailing list/forum admins can install Mailman and use their own mailing list, and manage the spam themselves, without depending on a third party mailing list provider. A mailing list is more accessible than a forum for everyone, and there are solutions for presenting the emails on a public web forum if this is wanted, but I guess that the mailing list admins choosed the easiest solution, not the best. Octavian - Original Message - From: Matt Quackenbush quackfu...@gmail.com To: jquery-en@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [jQuery] New Forums I concur regarding mailing list vs. forum. Both have their positives and negatives, but these days I definitely prefer a mailing list over forums. Perhaps the jQuery team could not find another mailing list that would import all of the existing posts on Google Groups? (My understanding is that they were able to do just that with the new forums.)
