[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

Harald Sitter  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEEDSINFO   |RESOLVED
 Resolution|WAITINGFORINFO  |FIXED

--- Comment #35 from Harald Sitter  ---
I'll file a task to follow up on resolving the underlying causes of this.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Vishal Rao via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #34 from Vishal Rao  ---
Appears to be working for me too now. Thank you!

Note on some reboots it still shows "stop job running" but completes at about 7
seconds duration when I set the /etc/systemd/system.conf interval settings to
30 seconds.

And on some reboots it's so fast I don't even get to press ESC during the
plymouth shutdown animation to see the console output :-)

Could anyone post a link to the commit or change that works around or fixes
this issue, just for the curious?

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Sebastian Kügler via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

Sebastian Kügler  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||se...@kde.org

--- Comment #33 from Sebastian Kügler  ---
Tested and confirmed working, thanks for the fix!

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #32 from Harald Sitter  ---
sudo apt update && sudo apt install neon-settings

then reboot at least twice

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

Harald Sitter  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|--- |WAITINGFORINFO
 Status|CONFIRMED   |NEEDSINFO

--- Comment #31 from Harald Sitter  ---
The developer editions are about to get a neon-settings update which may
prevent this from happening (for as long as it does right now).

It would be awesome if people could test and see if it improves the situation
(may need two reboots to apply).

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Kai Uwe Broulik via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851
Bug 363851 depends on bug 364340, which changed state.

Bug 364340 Summary: upon session logout keyboard module crashes
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=364340

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Vishal Rao via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

Vishal Rao  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||vishal...@gmail.com

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Pranav Sharma via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

Pranav Sharma  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||pranav.sharma@gmail.com

--- Comment #30 from Pranav Sharma  ---
It seems that the bug is resolved in a newer version of systemd.

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2691

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #29 from Harald Sitter  ---
nevermind, still broken. won't be solved until plasma learns to clean up and
our software learns to not crash in destructors.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #28 from Harald Sitter  ---
I think this should be solved in dev editions within the hour and for user
edition some time this week.

http://packaging.neon.kde.org/cgit/neon/settings.git/commit/?id=3a723d1daf55ce4b69b5af56c0a2ef35a31430b6

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[J Janz via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

J Janz  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||k...@juniorjanz.net

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #27 from romulu...@gmail.com ---
I also set KillYUserProcesses=yes and removed comments to see if it really
avoid the waiting, but it did not worked in my case. I'm using Neon in case.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

romulu...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||romulu...@gmail.com

--- Comment #26 from romulu...@gmail.com ---
I suspect it can be responsible by some inconsistencies on multi-screens setups
as save session in my experience, has correctly managed my panels position and
screen configuration... When it gracefully shut down

Otherwise I get a plethora of strange comportment, monitor position resetting,
panels arrangement reorganizing around default screen, etc. But I'm not sure of
this.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Me via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

Me  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||sno...@icloud.com

--- Comment #25 from Me  ---
I've left /etc/systemd/logind.conf #KillYUserProcesses=no

IF I opt to perform a Logout, then once at the SDDM Login Greeter screen (which
happens as quickly as one expects it should); then clicking on either the
Reboot or Shutdown icon, the selected process proceeds as quickly as one
expects it should; the annoying 1 minute 30 second delay does not happen.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[anewuser via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

anewuser  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||caip...@fastmail.fm

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Julien HENRY via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

Julien HENRY  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||henr...@yahoo.fr

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Andreas Hartmetz via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

Andreas Hartmetz  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||ahartm...@gmail.com

--- Comment #24 from Andreas Hartmetz  ---
I'm with Martin. We should make sure that our processes terminate to avoid
wasting resources. Independent of that, systemd is wrong to change behavior
because the way it used to work was good. Logout - end the session, leave
detached processes alone. Shutdown / reboot - kill everything that still lives
and only wait for a very short time. It is not hard to understand why that is
the right behavior.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

Harald Sitter  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||364340

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #23 from Harald Sitter  ---
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=364340

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #21 from Harald Sitter  ---
Has anyone tested this actually?

I just tried and it looks to me that setting killuserprocess is not going to be
enough on its own. In particular I seem to recall someone from the Plasma team
mentioning that reboot/shutdown do not actually go through logind which is
kinda in line with what I am seeing:
- logout -> reboot via sddm = works
- logout -> no lingering session in `logintctl`
- reboot -> stuck 
- shutdown -> stuck

So the way I see it ksmserver also needs to start talking to logind on
shutdown/reboot for user sessions to be properly nuked.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Martin Steigerwald via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

Martin Steigerwald  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC|mar...@lichtvoll.de |

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Martin Steigerwald via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #20 from Martin Steigerwald  ---
I think one major issue here is that systemd then doesn´t seem to handle
shutdown different to log out, i.e. I and quite some other users I read from
prefer processes to be kept running on logout, but when I shutdown or reboot
the system I prefer it to first SIGTERM and then SIGKILL processes if any are
left over. Instead systemd seems to wait on processes on shutdown case, and
that requires the KillUserProcess switch be on which then also leads to user
processes being killed on logout which is the part that doesn´t make sense to
me.

Just as it worked with SysVInit. Sometimes I wonder why its necessary to break
stuff that has worked just fine for ages.

The most important question here is always "What do users want?". When I say
shutdown I mean it – I don´t mean wait for processes. When I say reboot I mean
it – I don´t mean wait for processes. When I say logout, I mean it as well – I
don´t mean kill my screen session. Instead of just changing things for the sake
of changing them, or only to the view of the world that is correct in systemd
developers terms, I wonder how about thinking of a new way to do it and
coordinate with any involved parties *before* matter-of-factly breaking
existing setups in inventive ways.

So in systemd world either the logout or the shutdown is broken depending on
the setting of the KillUserProcesses switch.

Well if its possible to some day have it working out of the box with scopes…
but hopefully in a portable way that will work on FreeBSD and other operating
systems as well.

*sorry for the rant, I will uncc me from this bug report now, as its better for
my mental sanity*

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Me via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #19 from Me  ---
Created attachment 99460
  --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=99460=edit
Processes.png

--- Comment #18 from Me  ---
Created attachment 99459
  --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=99459=edit
attachment-25466-0.html

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Me via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #17 from Me  ---
These are the processes running after a starting KDE neon (Oracle VirtualBox
VM), logging in (SDDM), and opening a konsole on the Desktop:



So which one of these is the offending session? Or is it even identified here?

Paul Loughman
sno...@icloud.com




> On Jun 11, 2016, at 12:10 PM, Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851
> 
> Harald Sitter  changed:
> 
>   What|Removed |Added
> 
>   Assignee|n...@kde.org|neon-b...@kde.org
> 
> --- Comment #13 from Harald Sitter  ---
> If you were logged in on a terminal, or you were logged in over ssh, or you
> switched user, or you logged out and back in again, you would end up with a
> second session. There's possibly other cases, but generally those are the main
> things.
> 
> Pretty much anything that resembles a login of any type will create a session.
> 
> And pretty much any process created as part of login but not killed by some
> entity other than systemd would then block shutdown.
> 
> -- 
> You are receiving this mail because:
> You are the assignee for the bug.
> ___
> neon mailing list
> n...@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/neon

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Me via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #16 from Me  ---
Created attachment 99456
  --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=99456=edit
Processes.png

--- Comment #15 from Me  ---
Created attachment 99455
  --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=99455=edit
attachment-21709-0.html

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Me via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #14 from Me  ---
These are the processes running after a starting KDE neon (Oracle VirtualBox
VM), logging in (SDDM), and opening a konsole on the Desktop:



/etc/systemd/logind.conf #KillYUserProcesses= is currently set to ‘no’.

When I exit konsole, that process should be killed, so if I then do a shutdown;
K Menu > Shut Down (I’m using Application Dashboard), which of these processes
is Session 2 for Paul?

Paul Loughman
sno...@icloud.com




> On Jun 11, 2016, at 12:10 PM, Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851
> 
> Harald Sitter  changed:
> 
>   What|Removed |Added
> 
>   Assignee|n...@kde.org|neon-b...@kde.org
> 
> --- Comment #13 from Harald Sitter  ---
> If you were logged in on a terminal, or you were logged in over ssh, or you
> switched user, or you logged out and back in again, you would end up with a
> second session. There's possibly other cases, but generally those are the main
> things.
> 
> Pretty much anything that resembles a login of any type will create a session.
> 
> And pretty much any process created as part of login but not killed by some
> entity other than systemd would then block shutdown.
> 
> -- 
> You are receiving this mail because:
> You are the assignee for the bug.
> ___
> neon mailing list
> n...@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/neon

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

Harald Sitter  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Assignee|n...@kde.org|neon-b...@kde.org

--- Comment #13 from Harald Sitter  ---
If you were logged in on a terminal, or you were logged in over ssh, or you
switched user, or you logged out and back in again, you would end up with a
second session. There's possibly other cases, but generally those are the main
things.

Pretty much anything that resembles a login of any type will create a session.

And pretty much any process created as part of login but not killed by some
entity other than systemd would then block shutdown.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Me via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #12 from Me  ---
Created attachment 99454
  --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=99454=edit
A stop job is running_2.png

--- Comment #11 from Me  ---
Created attachment 99453
  --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=99453=edit
A stop job is running_1.png

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Me via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #10 from Me  ---
I’m running KDE neon in an Oracle VirtualBox VM. I keep it fully apt-get
dist-upgraded.

If I leave #KillUserProcesses=no, then the shutdown process ‘hangs’ once the
KDE neon 5.6.90 logo screen appears for a full 1min 30s. I’ve screen-captured
this:



Where is this second session of ‘me’ coming from? It’s this second session that
is hung (I believe it’s actually dead — a zombie?) and causes systemd to delay
the shutdown; it waits for the second session to terminate “on it’s own”, and
when, after the default time of 1min 30s, it hasn’t, systemd then kills it and
the shutdown finishes as it should.

Paul Loughman
sno...@icloud.com




> On Jun 10, 2016, at 1:49 PM, Thomas Pfeiffer via KDE Bugzilla 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851
> 
> --- Comment #9 from Thomas Pfeiffer  ---
> (In reply to Martin Steigerwald from comment #8)
>> Entirely your choice and in the end I don´t care, cause I do not intend to
>> use Neon. Yet, you mask bugs this way.
> 
> Sure, I'm all for fixing the misbehaving applications, but "Let's expose other
> people's fuck-ups so they'll fix them" has not been a very successful approach
> for us in the past. 
> Usually what happens is that those who fucked up don't do anything about it,
> and our users blame _us_ for the problems.
> 
> -- 
> You are receiving this mail because:
> You are the assignee for the bug.
> ___
> neon mailing list
> n...@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/neon

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Roman via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

Roman  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||subd...@gmail.com

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Thomas Pfeiffer via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #9 from Thomas Pfeiffer  ---
(In reply to Martin Steigerwald from comment #8)
> Entirely your choice and in the end I don´t care, cause I do not intend to
> use Neon. Yet, you mask bugs this way.

Sure, I'm all for fixing the misbehaving applications, but "Let's expose other
people's fuck-ups so they'll fix them" has not been a very successful approach
for us in the past. 
Usually what happens is that those who fucked up don't do anything about it,
and our users blame _us_ for the problems.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Martin Steigerwald via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #8 from Martin Steigerwald  ---
Entirely your choice and in the end I don´t care, cause I do not intend to use
Neon. Yet, you mask bugs this way.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Thomas Pfeiffer via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #7 from Thomas Pfeiffer  ---
Also, in all honesty: Users who need processes to continue running even after
logout are _not_ a significant enough portion of neon's target audience to
change the _default_ config to better suit their needs.
The vast majority of - even KDE enthusiastic - end users only care about their
processes as long as they are logged in. They usually only log out to shut down
or reboot, in which case none of their background processes would survive
anyway.

Neon is not Debian, the two have quite different target audiences. Those few
who need background processes to continue running after logout can still easily
change their systemd config. It's not worth to deteriorate the majority's
experience just to cater for the fringe.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #6 from Harald Sitter  ---
In a systemd world I think you are meant to start it as a scope
> systemd-run --scope --user screen
and let systemd manage the thing properly.
Not being able to differentiate between what is actually meant to run "forever"
and what is meant to die with the session is exactly why user scoping a
persistent background process is meant to solve.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Martin Steigerwald via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

Martin Steigerwald  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |CONFIRMED
 CC||mar...@lichtvoll.de
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #5 from Martin Steigerwald  ---
In Debian there has been a lengthy discussion and bug report about
"KillUserProcesses=yes" since it basically breaks screen sessions started by
the user and many other things.

Bug#825394: systemd kill background processes after user logs out
https://bugs.debian.org/825394

As a consequence of this Ubuntu/Debian systemd maintainer Martin Pitt reverted
this change of default config for now.

I certainly would also disable it, cause in case I need to restart my Plasma
session due to a hangup which still happens, while in a screen a borgbackup is
running, I of course want that borgbackup to continue its work.

If processes of a user session do not shut down on session shutdown, it is a
bug – except for those where it is intended, like a screen session. Just
killing all processes just masks that bug and invites to write broken software
and makes it necessary to separate a screen or otherwise long running process
from the session where it was started from, in this case even probably by using
systemd specific API.

Also setting to confirmed, cause, well was confirmed here already by Jonathan.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

m_loui...@yahoo.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||m_loui...@yahoo.com

--- Comment #4 from m_loui...@yahoo.com ---
Hello,

This is related to the use of logind. Old session managers used to kill user
processes when the session was closed. logind doesn't do that by default, but
applications didn't change their behaviour. Starting with systemd 230, the
default setting will change to kill processes. In the meantime, just set
KillUserProcesses=yes in logind.conf.

See https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/NEWS#L29

Louis

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #3 from Harald Sitter  ---
Oh yeah. FYI, this also happend with lightdm last I checked. So it might as
well be that ksmserver should make sure the session is dead. As I was saying,
the documentation, that I didn't manage to find, probably would suggest that
every of the involved pieces of software should kill the session, or maybe
none, or maybe some.

Also since I just remembered. There is also consolekit. Maybe consolekit should
end the session.

#WhatAMess

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Harald Sitter via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #2 from Harald Sitter  ---
After weeks of pondering I am actually thinking ksmserver needs to run shutdown
through sddm. and sddm needs to TERM all of its sessions, so when systemd hits
a running session it will actually make sense for systemd to wait (i.e. stuff
isn't done dying yet) and eventually kill the stuff (i.e. stuff didn't manage
to die on its own).

I do however consistently fail to have anyone who knows anything about this
stuff comment on how this is meant to work or not to work. So, I am right now
assuming that Linux is not meant to be shut down and when you happen to have it
shut down it is because you were lucky and the stars aligned just right. Either
that or the whole of ksmserver, sddm, logind, systemd need to come up with a
way that a session's processes are actually ended before the relevant systemd
session unit is meant to quit.

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[neon] [Bug 363851] "A stop job is running for Session 1 of user neon" during shutdown

[Jonathan Riddell via KDE Bugzilla]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=363851

--- Comment #1 from Jonathan Riddell  ---
This is common to distros like Fedora too.  There's a process which is spawned,
possibly gpg, and nothing is reponsible to shut it down so the shutdown hangs
until a timeout in systemd means it gets killed

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