Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
Hi :) I really like that link and it works well for just English. I thought LibreOffice got translated into many more languages? Do other languages happen to have a similar page already or is that only on the English site? I suspect that not all teams have enough people or time to get all that website done too and have been heroic enough. Getting the whole of LibreOffice translated is an immense amount of work and i think many people appreciate it but never get around to saying so. Good work all and many thanks from a lurker! :D Even 49 x (49 + 1) seems like quite a lot but if it needed to go to a couple of hundred that might be really difficult, even though it mostly only needs to be done once. Is it worth it? Of course i would say yes but then i am not one of the people doing the work and i have no idea just how much work it would be. From what at least 1 more experienced person has said i think it sounds like it might be too much work. Regards from Tom :) On 16 April 2014 10:10, Maniacco, Diego diego.mania...@provinz.bz.itwrote: A suggestion to the first point of Eike discussion: what if a centralized page like http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org/international-sites/ would expose a square matrix of names (actually 49 x (1+49): - each row will expose the link to the localized-site + the name of all languages written in the localized language? The work will need to be updated each time that a new localized-siet will be added; not very often. diego -- +--- | Diego Maniacco (Südtiroler Informatik AG - Informatica Alto Adige SpA) | Autonome Provinz Bozen - Südtirol - Provincia autonoma di Bolzano - Alto Adige | Tel +39 0471 566 159 +--- On 15/04/2014 20:54, Rimas Kudelis wrote: Hi Eike, let me disagree with you. The points you mentioned are valid, but to me they look more like a bunch of selected edge cases than common real-life scenarios. 2014.04.14 15:03, Eike Rathke wrote: On Thursday, 2014-04-10 18:26:44 +0800, 锁琨珑 wrote: So far, the language names shown in Tools - Options - Language Settings are in the localed language name strings. I believe those language names should be changed to the target names chars for all UIs, like the language listed here: http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org/international-sites/ (see the second column) While having language names in their native language is fine for interfaces where a user only wants to pick his/her own language, it is not desirable for interfaces where several languages can be chosen for different purposes that are not native to the user. Let me explain some disadvantages: * a document containing language attribution the user doesn't know the native name of, s/he will see a meaningless entry in the language list If the user doesn't know the language in question, knowing the name of that particular language in their own language will hardly help. In other words, I doubt that actually knowing that the language is Whateverian (something you've never heard of) will help you understand the doc any better than knowing that the language is Gibberishian (the name you can't even read). * seeing the language list, a user will not know what languages are offered except those s/he can somehow deduce The user doesn't really care about what languages are offered. What they care about is whether or not the language they need *at the moment* is offered. Assuming that they will know the native name of that language, it will often be much easier for them to find that name than guess it. Would you know or guess that German in Lithuanian is Vokiečių? I doubt that. * wanting to prepare a document with different locale settings (e.g. using different currencies or formatting) the user would have to know the native names I doubt one could prepare a document in any language they don't know to such extent. Setting metadata would be my least concern in such case... * a developer adding a language to the language listbox would have to know that name in the native language; yes, CLDR in the mean time provides native names of most frequently used languages, but not for the not so frequently used that now are occasionally requested; s/he'd have to take the word of the one requesting that language How's that
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
A suggestion to the first point of Eike discussion: what if a centralized page like http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org/international-sites/ would expose a square matrix of names (actually 49 x (1+49): - each row will expose the link to the localized-site + the name of all languages written in the localized language? The work will need to be updated each time that a new localized-siet will be added; not very often. diego -- +--- | Diego Maniacco (Südtiroler Informatik AG - Informatica Alto Adige SpA) | Autonome Provinz Bozen - Südtirol - Provincia autonoma di Bolzano - Alto Adige | Tel +39 0471 566 159 +--- On 15/04/2014 20:54, Rimas Kudelis wrote: Hi Eike, let me disagree with you. The points you mentioned are valid, but to me they look more like a bunch of selected edge cases than common real-life scenarios. 2014.04.14 15:03, Eike Rathke wrote: On Thursday, 2014-04-10 18:26:44 +0800, 锁琨珑 wrote: So far, the language names shown in Tools - Options - Language Settings are in the localed language name strings. I believe those language names should be changed to the target names chars for all UIs, like the language listed here: http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org/international-sites/ (see the second column) While having language names in their native language is fine for interfaces where a user only wants to pick his/her own language, it is not desirable for interfaces where several languages can be chosen for different purposes that are not native to the user. Let me explain some disadvantages: * a document containing language attribution the user doesn't know the native name of, s/he will see a meaningless entry in the language list If the user doesn't know the language in question, knowing the name of that particular language in their own language will hardly help. In other words, I doubt that actually knowing that the language is Whateverian (something you've never heard of) will help you understand the doc any better than knowing that the language is Gibberishian (the name you can't even read). * seeing the language list, a user will not know what languages are offered except those s/he can somehow deduce The user doesn't really care about what languages are offered. What they care about is whether or not the language they need *at the moment* is offered. Assuming that they will know the native name of that language, it will often be much easier for them to find that name than guess it. Would you know or guess that German in Lithuanian is Vokiečių? I doubt that. * wanting to prepare a document with different locale settings (e.g. using different currencies or formatting) the user would have to know the native names I doubt one could prepare a document in any language they don't know to such extent. Setting metadata would be my least concern in such case... * a developer adding a language to the language listbox would have to know that name in the native language; yes, CLDR in the mean time provides native names of most frequently used languages, but not for the not so frequently used that now are occasionally requested; s/he'd have to take the word of the one requesting that language How's that a problem? If somebody makes a request, you can always ask the requester what the native language name is. * for developers this gets even more cumbersome for languages that can be written in different scripts, or scripts the developer doesn't know at all; would you know how to correctly write Arabic and enter it on your native keyboard? Or Mongolian in the Mongolian script? You'd have to rely on copypaste and pray that your editor handles all Unicode characters, RTL writing direction and so forth. I agree that this might be a bit inconvenient for developers, but I'm pretty sure there must be an acceptable solution to that inconvenience. For example, non-latin
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
2014.04.16 12:10, Maniacco, Diego rašė: A suggestion to the first point of Eike discussion: what if a centralized page like http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org/international-sites/ would expose a square matrix of names (actually 49 x (1+49): - each row will expose the link to the localized-site + the name of all languages written in the localized language? The work will need to be updated each time that a new localized-siet will be added; not very often. The page would look very crowded. And more importantly, what's the point? Rimas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
Hi Eike, let me disagree with you. The points you mentioned are valid, but to me they look more like a bunch of selected edge cases than common real-life scenarios. 2014.04.14 15:03, Eike Rathke wrote: On Thursday, 2014-04-10 18:26:44 +0800, 锁琨珑 wrote: So far, the language names shown in Tools - Options - Language Settings are in the localed language name strings. I believe those language names should be changed to the target names chars for all UIs, like the language listed here: http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org/international-sites/ (see the second column) While having language names in their native language is fine for interfaces where a user only wants to pick his/her own language, it is not desirable for interfaces where several languages can be chosen for different purposes that are not native to the user. Let me explain some disadvantages: * a document containing language attribution the user doesn't know the native name of, s/he will see a meaningless entry in the language list If the user doesn't know the language in question, knowing the name of that particular language in their own language will hardly help. In other words, I doubt that actually knowing that the language is Whateverian (something you've never heard of) will help you understand the doc any better than knowing that the language is Gibberishian (the name you can't even read). * seeing the language list, a user will not know what languages are offered except those s/he can somehow deduce The user doesn't really care about what languages are offered. What they care about is whether or not the language they need *at the moment* is offered. Assuming that they will know the native name of that language, it will often be much easier for them to find that name than guess it. Would you know or guess that German in Lithuanian is Vokiečių? I doubt that. * wanting to prepare a document with different locale settings (e.g. using different currencies or formatting) the user would have to know the native names I doubt one could prepare a document in any language they don't know to such extent. Setting metadata would be my least concern in such case... * a developer adding a language to the language listbox would have to know that name in the native language; yes, CLDR in the mean time provides native names of most frequently used languages, but not for the not so frequently used that now are occasionally requested; s/he'd have to take the word of the one requesting that language How's that a problem? If somebody makes a request, you can always ask the requester what the native language name is. * for developers this gets even more cumbersome for languages that can be written in different scripts, or scripts the developer doesn't know at all; would you know how to correctly write Arabic and enter it on your native keyboard? Or Mongolian in the Mongolian script? You'd have to rely on copypaste and pray that your editor handles all Unicode characters, RTL writing direction and so forth. I agree that this might be a bit inconvenient for developers, but I'm pretty sure there must be an acceptable solution to that inconvenience. For example, non-latin language names could probably be stored in escaped fashion where appropriate (in the source code). I really don't think X is inconvenient for developers is a good excuse to keep something at a state less convenient for the end-user. I am thinking about this because of the following reason: * It's a waste of time for localizers to translate every foreign language names to their own locale. Even translated, it may not be correct. That's about 350 language names we currently have, of an overall of some hundred thousand words to translate (including help), doesn't really look significant to me. Plus, once translated the names almost never change. It's still useless and – most importantly – inconvenient to most users (=those who know the native name of language they want to pick). * In case the users are trying to switch between languages, there may be confusion (for example, if I want to test something in Franch UI, and after that I want to change back to Chinese UI it's really difficult to find the right one in the list box. There's an easy trick for that: assign the language to a portion of text and reload the document in the other UI language. I'm pretty sure that developers can find easy tricks to solve their inconveniences as well. E.g. copy-paste. And there is a corrensponding bug report here: Bug 59901 - UI: Name of each language in target language https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=59901 I'll add the same comment there. I hope your stance is not too strict about this. Regards, Rimas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
Hi 锁琨珑, On Thursday, 2014-04-10 18:26:44 +0800, 锁琨珑 wrote: So far, the language names shown in Tools - Options - Language Settings are in the localed language name strings. I believe those language names should be changed to the target names chars for all UIs, like the language listed here: http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org/international-sites/ (see the second column) While having language names in their native language is fine for interfaces where a user only wants to pick his/her own language, it is not desirable for interfaces where several languages can be chosen for different purposes that are not native to the user. Let me explain some disadvantages: * a document containing language attribution the user doesn't know the native name of, s/he will see a meaningless entry in the language list * seeing the language list, a user will not know what languages are offered except those s/he can somehow deduce * wanting to prepare a document with different locale settings (e.g. using different currencies or formatting) the user would have to know the native names * a developer adding a language to the language listbox would have to know that name in the native language; yes, CLDR in the mean time provides native names of most frequently used languages, but not for the not so frequently used that now are occasionally requested; s/he'd have to take the word of the one requesting that language * for developers this gets even more cumbersome for languages that can be written in different scripts, or scripts the developer doesn't know at all; would you know how to correctly write Arabic and enter it on your native keyboard? Or Mongolian in the Mongolian script? You'd have to rely on copypaste and pray that your editor handles all Unicode characters, RTL writing direction and so forth. I am thinking about this because of the following reason: * It's a waste of time for localizers to translate every foreign language names to their own locale. Even translated, it may not be correct. That's about 350 language names we currently have, of an overall of some hundred thousand words to translate (including help), doesn't really look significant to me. Plus, once translated the names almost never change. * In case the users are trying to switch between languages, there may be confusion (for example, if I want to test something in Franch UI, and after that I want to change back to Chinese UI it's really difficult to find the right one in the list box. There's an easy trick for that: assign the language to a portion of text and reload the document in the other UI language. And there is a corrensponding bug report here: Bug 59901 - UI: Name of each language in target language https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=59901 I'll add the same comment there. Eike -- LibreOffice Calc developer. Number formatter stricken i18n transpositionizer. GPG key ID: 0x65632D3A - 2265 D7F3 A7B0 95CC 3918 630B 6A6C D5B7 6563 2D3A Support the FSFE, care about Free Software! https://fsfe.org/support/?erack -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
Hi Tom, On Thursday, 2014-04-10 21:58:57 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: OpenOffice is listed along with many OpenSource projects in the who uses section http://cldr.unicode.org/#TOC-Who-uses-CLDR- So i wonder if there is a good reason why LibreOffice didn't use it because at first glance it looks fairly fantastic to me. Is there some politics or licensing that makes it difficult for LibreOffice to be involved or was it just not as useful as it's looks at first glance or some other good reason for not being involved? LibreOffice uses CLDR to the same extent (or more) as OpenOffice.org did. Just that it is not listed there (care to change that? ;-) In fact OOo contributed its locale data to the CLDR back when CLDR was created. However, CLDR does not provide all locale data LibreOffice needs, or differently, and is not a global cure for all locale problems. Getting back to the initial question, would it be difficult to list the languages each in their own language? See my reply there, for me as a developer adding language entries it would be at least more difficult. Eike -- LibreOffice Calc developer. Number formatter stricken i18n transpositionizer. GPG key ID: 0x65632D3A - 2265 D7F3 A7B0 95CC 3918 630B 6A6C D5B7 6563 2D3A Support the FSFE, care about Free Software! https://fsfe.org/support/?erack -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
Hi :) Sorry to say but i've had a couple of messages off-list from people who have had trouble dealing with the CLDR people. Not all community projects are as open and welcoming as they like to believe. It's a shame but it happens [shrugs] We thought about having 2 columns, one entirely in whichever language and the other with each item in a different language was considered and rejected by the Ubuntu project for their installer. It's a LOT of work and difficult to keep track of all the different parts of the jigsaw puzzle. So, although it might be a nice idea i think we should drop that idea too and just have the 1 column, as originally suggested; I believe those language names should be changed to the target names chars for all UIs, like the language listed here: http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org/international-sites/ (see the second column) I am thinking about this because of the following reason: * It's a waste of time for localizers to translate every foreign language names to their own locale. Even translated, it may not be correct. * In case the users are trying to switch between languages, there may be confusion (for example, if I want to test something in Franch UI, and after that I want to change back to Chinese UI it's really difficult to find the right one in the list box. Sorry my opinions have turned out to be a bit rubbish so far! Apols and regards from Tom :) On 10 April 2014 21:58, Tom Davies tomc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi :) I like the look of their Acknowledgements page. It lists individuals as well as companies. http://cldr.unicode.org/index/acknowledgments OpenOffice is listed along with many OpenSource projects in the who uses section http://cldr.unicode.org/#TOC-Who-uses-CLDR- So i wonder if there is a good reason why LibreOffice didn't use it because at first glance it looks fairly fantastic to me. Is there some politics or licensing that makes it difficult for LibreOffice to be involved or was it just not as useful as it's looks at first glance or some other good reason for not being involved? Getting back to the initial question, would it be difficult to list the languages each in their own language? Regards from Tom :) On 10 April 2014 18:17, Xuacu xuacu...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-10 17:43 GMT+02:00 Kevin Suo suokunl...@gmail.com: [...] I even dont know most of the others AN AR AST BE BG BN BRX CA CA-VAL [...] These are ISO 639-1/ISO 639-2 language codes. In case you need it, their equivalences are here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-2_codes BTW, can't we use CLDR libraries to get language names in local and/or foreign format as needed? I'm not a developer, that's just a blind guess. Best regards. -- Xuacu Saturio -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
Hi all, So far, the language names shown in Tools - Options - Language Settings are in the localed language name strings. For example, if you are using English UI, the language listed are English (USA), English (United Kingdom), Chinese (Simplified), Chinese (Tranditional)...; When you are using Chinese (Simplified) UI, the list shows like 英语 (美国), 英语 (英国), 中文 (简体), 中文 (繁体)...; when using Japanese UI then the names are expressed in Japanese. I believe those language names should be changed to the target names chars for all UIs, like the language listed here: http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org/international-sites/ (see the second column) I am thinking about this because of the following reason: * It's a waste of time for localizers to translate every foreign language names to their own locale. Even translated, it may not be correct. * In case the users are trying to switch between languages, there may be confusion (for example, if I want to test something in Franch UI, and after that I want to change back to Chinese UI it's really difficult to find the right one in the list box. And there is a corrensponding bug report here: Bug 59901 - UI: Name of each language in target language https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=59901 Currently the language stings are translatable in pootle. My idea is that: * The language stings should be made un-translatable, just maitain a language list in the source codes with target chars; or * there be guidelines in the l10n wiki page to tell localizers to translate the language list strings to the target language chars. Best regard, Kevin Suo -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
Hi :) +1 That would be brilliant! I do have a lot of trouble switching between different languages. Luckily for me one of the English ones has (us) after it so i switch back to that and then try to figure out which language is really needed. It might be even better if there were 2 columns rather than just one to get the best of both worlds. Does the list really need to be translated afresh for each release?!!? Surely once done the list stays much the same except for 'new' languages that have been added? Regards from Tom :) On 10 April 2014 11:26, 锁琨珑 suokunl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, So far, the language names shown in Tools - Options - Language Settings are in the localed language name strings. For example, if you are using English UI, the language listed are English (USA), English (United Kingdom), Chinese (Simplified), Chinese (Tranditional)...; When you are using Chinese (Simplified) UI, the list shows like 英语 (美国), 英语 (英国), 中文 (简体), 中文 (繁体)...; when using Japanese UI then the names are expressed in Japanese. I believe those language names should be changed to the target names chars for all UIs, like the language listed here: http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org/international-sites/ (see the second column) I am thinking about this because of the following reason: * It's a waste of time for localizers to translate every foreign language names to their own locale. Even translated, it may not be correct. * In case the users are trying to switch between languages, there may be confusion (for example, if I want to test something in Franch UI, and after that I want to change back to Chinese UI it's really difficult to find the right one in the list box. And there is a corrensponding bug report here: Bug 59901 - UI: Name of each language in target language https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=59901 Currently the language stings are translatable in pootle. My idea is that: * The language stings should be made un-translatable, just maitain a language list in the source codes with target chars; or * there be guidelines in the l10n wiki page to tell localizers to translate the language list strings to the target language chars. Best regard, Kevin Suo -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
Does the list really need to be translated afresh for each release?!!? Surely once done the list stays much the same except for 'new' languages that have been added? Usually it's not needed for each release to translate the strings, but for each locale the localers are translating the language strings to their own languages, which is a waste of our time and meaningless but adding trouble. However, there may be unusual cases that the old strings need retranslating? For zh-cn I am sure that it was 100% complete translation in 3.x, but when 4.1 was released there become many untranslated strings. And even worse, in 4.2 there are even more, even if that string was already translated in 4.1. (Maybe it's because of the .src to .ui change? Or because ~ABC to _ABC? ) Concerning the language names issue, what I am doing recently is revising the language names to english-and-target strings in zh-cn UI. I believe when finished it would look professional, fresh, and meaningful. -- Kevin Suo 锁琨珑 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
Some more info, I think the language names on the wiki should also be revised. I have already changed ZH-HANS and ZH-TW to target names. Only few people would know ZH-HANS stands for simplified Chinese. I even dont know most of the others AN AR AST BE BG BN BRX CA CA-VAL CS DA DE EL EO ES FA FI FR GD GL HE HI HU ID IS IT JA JV KO LO-LA LT MR NL NO OC OM PA PT PT-BR RO RU SAH SK SL SV TE TH TR VI mean. -- Kevin Suo 锁琨珑 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
Þann fim 10.apr 2014 13:35, skrifaði Tom Davies: Hi :) +1 That would be brilliant! I do have a lot of trouble switching between different languages. Luckily for me one of the English ones has (us) after it so i switch back to that and then try to figure out which language is really needed. It might be even better if there were 2 columns rather than just one to get the best of both worlds. +1 - could make life easier in many situations... Or a list with only localized language-names: Deutsch Español Français Íslenska 日本語 Nederlands русский etc.. Does the list really need to be translated afresh for each release?!!? Surely once done the list stays much the same except for 'new' languages that have been added? Regards from Tom :) Translators (and coders as well!) can use the ISO-639-files from translationproject.org to get translated languages and names. Very conservative and quite precise (though not very complete for some languages), these are surprisingly widely used; any error or omission there will stick around for ages in things like website drop-downs, various apps and interfaces and so on. But I guess LO-devs will want to use the onboard solution for these. Regards, Sveinn í Felli On 10 April 2014 11:26, 锁琨珑 suokunl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, So far, the language names shown in Tools - Options - Language Settings are in the localed language name strings. For example, if you are using English UI, the language listed are English (USA), English (United Kingdom), Chinese (Simplified), Chinese (Tranditional)...; When you are using Chinese (Simplified) UI, the list shows like 英语 (美国), 英语 (英国), 中文 (简体), 中文 (繁体)...; when using Japanese UI then the names are expressed in Japanese. I believe those language names should be changed to the target names chars for all UIs, like the language listed here: http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org/international-sites/ (see the second column) I am thinking about this because of the following reason: * It's a waste of time for localizers to translate every foreign language names to their own locale. Even translated, it may not be correct. * In case the users are trying to switch between languages, there may be confusion (for example, if I want to test something in Franch UI, and after that I want to change back to Chinese UI it's really difficult to find the right one in the list box. And there is a corrensponding bug report here: Bug 59901 - UI: Name of each language in target language https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=59901 Currently the language stings are translatable in pootle. My idea is that: * The language stings should be made un-translatable, just maitain a language list in the source codes with target chars; or * there be guidelines in the l10n wiki page to tell localizers to translate the language list strings to the target language chars. Best regard, Kevin Suo -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
2014-04-10 17:43 GMT+02:00 Kevin Suo suokunl...@gmail.com: [...] I even dont know most of the others AN AR AST BE BG BN BRX CA CA-VAL [...] These are ISO 639-1/ISO 639-2 language codes. In case you need it, their equivalences are here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-2_codes BTW, can't we use CLDR libraries to get language names in local and/or foreign format as needed? I'm not a developer, that's just a blind guess. Best regards. -- Xuacu Saturio -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars
Hi :) I like the look of their Acknowledgements page. It lists individuals as well as companies. http://cldr.unicode.org/index/acknowledgments OpenOffice is listed along with many OpenSource projects in the who uses section http://cldr.unicode.org/#TOC-Who-uses-CLDR- So i wonder if there is a good reason why LibreOffice didn't use it because at first glance it looks fairly fantastic to me. Is there some politics or licensing that makes it difficult for LibreOffice to be involved or was it just not as useful as it's looks at first glance or some other good reason for not being involved? Getting back to the initial question, would it be difficult to list the languages each in their own language? Regards from Tom :) On 10 April 2014 18:17, Xuacu xuacu...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-10 17:43 GMT+02:00 Kevin Suo suokunl...@gmail.com: [...] I even dont know most of the others AN AR AST BE BG BN BRX CA CA-VAL [...] These are ISO 639-1/ISO 639-2 language codes. In case you need it, their equivalences are here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-2_codes BTW, can't we use CLDR libraries to get language names in local and/or foreign format as needed? I'm not a developer, that's just a blind guess. Best regards. -- Xuacu Saturio -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
