Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright of old media / images / maps
2014-04-05 6:01 GMT+02:00 Andreas Labres l...@lab.at: Below the line the question is: was the act of reproducing that thing an act of creation (Akt der Schöpfung im Sinne des Urheberrechts; also mit der nötigen Schöpfungshöhe). This is usually granted for a photography. The copyright status (*Urheberrechts*status) of the reproduction is separate from the copyright status of the original (in the case of an act of creation). in Germany you would have to have made creative decisions in order to have protection, a simple reproduction which aims to reproduce with most fidelity the original does not qualify for Urheberrecht (~ copyright). Look here for reference (German): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildrechte#Urheberrechtlich_nicht_gesch.C3.BCtzte_Bilder Of course it is still true, if the creator sues you, you will have to defend your point of view in court and see how they decide. Cheers, Martin ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Using Google Street View to perform virtual survey
Dear fellow mappers, Let me present myself to you. I'm a OSM mapper from the Brazil community and a question rose there which caused a split in the group regarding Google Street View to perform virtual surveys, such as taking notes of house numbers and plotting them in the maps. After reading http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ#2a._Can_I_trace_data_from_Google_Maps.2FNokia_Maps.2F3F, I was pondering about the impossibility of copyright and licenses apply to facts and reality (not regarding philosophical aspects). Google Street View photos depict reality or facts, thus I could use them to observe reality and derive interpretations which would be genuine creative work. It would be illegal to use the images in Mapillary, for instance, but the facts depicted by the images are not property of Google. Your thoughts, please Paulo Carvalho ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Using Google Street View to perform virtual survey
Hi, On 05.04.2014 17:50, Paulo Carvalho wrote: Google Street View photos depict reality or facts, thus I could use them to observe reality and derive interpretations which would be genuine creative work. It would be illegal to use the images in Mapillary, for instance, but the facts depicted by the images are not property of Google. Your thoughts, please The general opinion on this list has been, for cases where there wasn't a clear-cut license that answers these questions: We'll use the data if the copyright owner says we can use it. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Using Google Street View to perform virtual survey
On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:50 PM, Paulo Carvalho paulo.r.m.carva...@gmail.com wrote: Dear fellow mappers, Let me present myself to you. I'm a OSM mapper from the Brazil community and a question rose there which caused a split in the group regarding Google Street View to perform virtual surveys, such as taking notes of house numbers and plotting them in the maps. After reading http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ#2a._Can_I_trace_data_from_Google_Maps.2FNokia_Maps.2F3F, I was pondering about the impossibility of copyright and licenses apply to facts and reality (not regarding philosophical aspects). Google Street View photos depict reality or facts, thus I could use them to observe reality and derive interpretations which would be genuine creative work. It would be illegal to use the images in Mapillary, for instance, but the facts depicted by the images are not property of Google. Your thoughts, please You may find more discussion of this topic on this OSM help page: https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/710/can-i-use-google-streetview-to-help-create-maps Also, somebody has asked Google regarding Street View. Here is Ed Parsons' answer: Checking the odd street names is OK. But every street name I would suggest would represent a bulk feed. And bulk feed refers to the Terms of Service: 2(e) [You may not] use the Products in a manner that gives you or any other person access to mass downloads or bulk feeds of any Content, including but not limited to numerical latitude or longitude coordinates, imagery, and visible map data Hope that helps. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Using Google Street View to perform virtual survey
The general opinion on this list has been, for cases where there wasn't a clear-cut license that answers these questions: We'll use the data if the copyright owner says we can use it. Bye Frederik I recon that the images are copyrighted, not the objects depicted by them. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Using Google Street View to perform virtual survey
Hi, You may find more discussion of this topic on this OSM help page: https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/710/can-i-use-google-streetview-to-help-create-maps I see many people agree that we can use the images to access reality. This does not mean we're using the images themselves, which is copyrighted work. Also, somebody has asked Google regarding Street View. Here is Ed Parsons' answer: Checking the odd street names is OK. But every street name I would suggest * would represent a bulk feed.* With all due respect, this is plain wrong. Anyone who dealt with databases know that a bulk load is an automated insertion of copious ammount of data. Browsing photos to manually write down signs and house numbers is far from bulk load. And bulk feed refers to the Terms of Service: 2(e) [You may not] use the Products in a manner that gives you or any other * person access to mass downloads or bulk feeds of any Content, including but ** not limited to numerical latitude or longitude coordinates, imagery, and ** visible map data * Hope that helps. It says imagery. I'm not telling to download and use the images elsewhere. Reading a sign in SV photos and taking a note is different from copying them. I'm still not convinced. thanks, Paulo ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Using Google Street View to perform virtual survey
FWIW, I agree with you that it should not be a case of copyright infringement to obtain uncopyrightable facts from copyroghted sources. Here's a blog post that even argues that it is OK to trace from Google's satellite imagery: http://www.systemed.net/blog/legacy/100.html But OSM does not operate this way. We aim to be whiter than white, and not dabble in legal shades of gray. Even if *you* think that it is legally OK to copy from someone, you shouldn't do it unless you have *permission* to do so, or if a court decision says *exactly* that it is OK to copy stuff for OSM. On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 6:04 AM, Paulo Carvalho paulo.r.m.carva...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, You may find more discussion of this topic on this OSM help page: https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/710/can-i-use-google-streetview-to-help-create-maps I see many people agree that we can use the images to access reality. This does not mean we're using the images themselves, which is copyrighted work. Also, somebody has asked Google regarding Street View. Here is Ed Parsons' answer: Checking the odd street names is OK. But every street name I would suggest * would represent a bulk feed.* With all due respect, this is plain wrong. Anyone who dealt with databases know that a bulk load is an automated insertion of copious ammount of data. Browsing photos to manually write down signs and house numbers is far from bulk load. And bulk feed refers to the Terms of Service: 2(e) [You may not] use the Products in a manner that gives you or any other * person access to mass downloads or bulk feeds of any Content, including but ** not limited to numerical latitude or longitude coordinates, imagery, and ** visible map data * Hope that helps. It says imagery. I'm not telling to download and use the images elsewhere. Reading a sign in SV photos and taking a note is different from copying them. I'm still not convinced. thanks, Paulo ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Using Google Street View to perform virtual survey
On 6 April 2014 00:04, Paulo Carvalho paulo.r.m.carva...@gmail.com wrote: https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/710/can-i-use-google-streetview-to-help-create-maps I see many people agree that we can use the images to access reality. This does not mean we're using the images themselves, which is copyrighted work. We'd be using the images even if we were not copying them, these are different things. Also, somebody has asked Google regarding Street View. Here is Ed Parsons' answer: Checking the odd street names is OK. But every street name I would suggest would represent a bulk feed. With all due respect, this is plain wrong. Anyone who dealt with databases know that a bulk load is... This is a Google service and it's up to them to define what bulk load is and isn't when they present you the agreement. You can only accept it or reject it as a whole except in very rare situations. And bulk feed refers to the Terms of Service: 2(e) [You may not] use the Products in a manner that gives you or any other person access to mass downloads or bulk feeds of any Content, including but not limited to numerical latitude or longitude coordinates, imagery, and visible map data Hope that helps. It says imagery. I'm not telling to download and use the images elsewhere. Reading a sign in SV photos and taking a note is different from copying them. Again I think the main point is the agreement doesn't say copy, it says use. Cheers ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Using Google Street View to perform virtual survey
From: Paulo Carvalho [mailto:paulo.r.m.carva...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 8:51 AM To: legal-talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] Using Google Street View to perform virtual survey Dear fellow mappers, Let me present myself to you. I'm a OSM mapper from the Brazil community and a question rose there which caused a split in the group regarding Google Street View to perform virtual surveys, such as taking notes of house numbers and plotting them in the maps. [...] Your thoughts, please The Google TOS restrictions on use[1] prohibit [using] the Products to create a database of places or other local listings information. My recollection is that previous versions of their terms contained similar provisions, but were not as clear. Using Street View as you describe would definitely be a violation of Google's TOS. When it happens the Data Working Group redacts the data to remove it from the OpenStreetMap database. [1]: https://www.google.com/intl/en_ALL/help/terms_maps.html ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
