Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
Hi, NSA just $20M of budget? The same NSA that is building a data center (for processing what? =) for 869 million USD$ in Maryland? From http://www.democracynow.org/2012/4/20/exclusive_national_security_agency_whistleblower_william WILLIAM BINNEY: Well, it was called Thin Thread. I mean, Thin Thread was our—a test program that we set up to do that. By the way, I viewed it as we never had enough data, OK? We never got enough. It was never enough for us to work at, because I looked at velocity, variety and volume as all positive things. Volume meant you got more about your target. Velocity meant you got it faster. Variety meant you got more aspects. These were all positive things. All we had to do was to devise a way to use and utilize all of those inputs and be able to make sense of them, which is what we did. JUAN GONZALEZ: And when they didn’t use your system, they—the NSA developed another or attempted to develop another system to do the same? WILLIAM BINNEY: Well, that one failed. They didn’t produce anything with that one. AMY GOODMAN: And that one was called? WILLIAM BINNEY: Trailblazer, yeah. AMY GOODMAN: Trailblazer, and— WILLIAM BINNEY: I called it—I called it five-year plan number one. Five-year plan number two was Turbulence. Five-year plan number three is— AMY GOODMAN: And Trailblazer cost how much money? WILLIAM BINNEY: That was, I think, in my—my sense, was a little over $4 billion. AMY GOODMAN: Four billion dollars. WILLIAM BINNEY: Right. AMY GOODMAN: But it was scuttled. It was done away with in 2006? WILLIAM BINNEY: Yes, '05, I think it was. But yes, that's right. And we developed our program with $3 million, roughly. -- Katana -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
On Fri, Jun 07, 2013 at 12:32:10PM +1200, Andrew Lewis wrote: PRISM isn't really even that illegal, as long as they discard communications considered to be American. So, as long as every TLA world wide does, and they all share the information, everything is all right? Not so fast. The NSA has been listening to radio signals from all over the world for years, from military bases strategically positioned to pickup radio signals of interest, amongst other types of communication data. This is really just the extension of similar ideas, to a new form of communications, the novel part of the whole thing is that it leverages the fact that so many tech companies are located in the US and that a ton of the internet backbone is run through America. Why does the NSA operate these dedicated fiber splice subs, you think? -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
On Thu, Jun 06, 2013 at 09:23:03PM -0700, x z wrote: What surprised me is how Guardian and Washington Post cover this story. The Power Point slides looks laughable to me. Maybe I should interpret direct access to servers of firms as like when I'm typing this email I am also having *a direct access* to Gmail's servers. It's a little more direct than that. Approaches like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A are really rather expensive, so it makes sense to move the intercept capabilities to the providers themselves, on a need-to-know basis, and serve them with a gagging order. If you think this is a laughing matter, you have a pretty strange sense of humor. This either a ploy by some pro-privacy extremist or a prank by somebody who's tired of these hyperbole privacy outcries. You must realize that placating pabulum doesn't really fly here, so I would reexamine why you are reading this list. -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
I tend to agree with this. Here are some things that look fishy about this leak * The $20 million budget seems paltry. Nothing gets done in government for that small amount. * The Powerpoint is amateurish (then again with no budget.) * Everybody implicated is denying it (though I suspect they would say the same if it were true) * The Guardian says it verified the authenticity of the presentation but it doesn't say how, nor does it appear they have any corroborating evidence. Hopefully their will be some further investigation that will provide additional evidence about the program's existence. Jason On 6/7/2013 12:23 AM, x z wrote: What surprised me is how Guardian and Washington Post cover this story. The Power Point slides looks laughable to me. Maybe I should interpret direct access to servers of firms as like when I'm typing this email I am also having /a direct access/ to Gmail's servers. This either a ploy by some pro-privacy extremist or a prank by somebody who's tired of these hyperbole privacy outcries. 2013/6/6 Peter Eckersley peter.eckers...@gmail.com mailto:peter.eckers...@gmail.com Of course, I was reading to fast and leaning to heavily on control+f. Anyway, 20 million annually seems like a very low number by the usual standards of efficiency in Department of Defense programs. But the NSA might already have a data storage, processing and query architecture in place that is either not included in this budget or only included on a marginal cost basis. On 6 June 2013 16:45, Peter Eckersley peter.eckers...@gmail.com mailto:peter.eckers...@gmail.com wrote: Where did you get the $20m budget number from? I can't find it in any of the stories or attached materials. But I could be missing something. On 6 June 2013 16:14, x z xhzh...@gmail.com mailto:xhzh...@gmail.com wrote: doesn't seem real to me. especially the part *direct access to servers* of firms ..., and with an annual budget of measly $20m. 2013/6/6 Michael Carbone mich...@accessnow.org mailto:mich...@accessnow.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data WaPo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story_1.html some of the slides (haven't seen the full ppt drop): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/ Participating companies in chronological order: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, YouTube, Skype, AOL, Apple. Dropbox apparently next up. - -- Michael Carbone Manager of Tech Policy Programs Access | https://www.accessnow.org mich...@accessnow.org mailto:mich...@accessnow.org | PGP: 0x81B7A13E PGP Fingerprint: 25EC 1D0F 2D44 C4F4 5BEF EF83 C471 AD94 81B7 A13E -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRsQujAAoJEDH9usG3Jz33lFoP/1vRZ6qTJhlvShNtfktlSB9x qxlHoFJBu4DV6YzEGPNnshb+hRiTk4iC+bksmBIIvZ5WZVVUUR3japU7QtOMhKtr +YAkxlStumySUBPEyx2t83VDv2d2yYhKxPDELVhs4lxeY+IS1pxN7wv3SulkI5qM 1UciTdL1ok4t9jerWQf/g9wxmWm5GNF7hVHMQu3uI7lYgCIIupoWggj43nGu2dYR CUQ6j+e6H7KpusabNx8DlDujCw1/Pfxb/kkvz5tT9tJfZucZ26sMpjJZTDKWHCfs TITJAUQg0g7eAoh5ehzxGBamjiPwKwXdfomg2QP9f6Rq4WCh2EBsBL0grbMA6K2e Y83J+2oInCdnpxDTvQfk41uFdh2awg7QPrndt9s9XwOY5ShUj+BH4L/6dkGtZG4r iadK/JD7YU5cgI+m4HQab7+b/CSB2P4a+57XP4Hfz7aNYfe+jPjBJbEl46Srnbg2 5xCcgYGJQSoGGvxCDJYLwjZdFo/t7XFspCrfcuIMvKr9njVJgffeW+5qS0czqC9D vaNhS5TQ4O6pXsA2jTpbDyqNN/HbLXCupgLyUq9Kh+dYYUeaavwGQj/CwsMD0SKe CRykJUW1VTtu0BXbT86et47yAldsdYc/fuhnoONWDCP5WOu9he/SXDfQELeyH/KG FRpkJRX7ijLlTySwbbpD =NvtB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu mailto:compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu mailto:compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Well the Director of National Intelligence James Clapper has defended the program, not denied it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22809541 http://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/191-press-releases-2013/869-dni-statement-on-activities-authorized-under-section-702-of-fisa And UK has access: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/07/uk-gathering-secret-intelligence-nsa-prism Most likely Australia, NZ, and Canada have as well, per: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement Michael On 06/07/2013 10:13 AM, R. Jason Cronk wrote: I tend to agree with this. Here are some things that look fishy about this leak * The $20 million budget seems paltry. Nothing gets done in government for that small amount. * The Powerpoint is amateurish (then again with no budget.) * Everybody implicated is denying it (though I suspect they would say the same if it were true) * The Guardian says it verified the authenticity of the presentation but it doesn't say how, nor does it appear they have any corroborating evidence. Hopefully their will be some further investigation that will provide additional evidence about the program's existence. Jason On 6/7/2013 12:23 AM, x z wrote: What surprised me is how Guardian and Washington Post cover this story. The Power Point slides looks laughable to me. Maybe I should interpret direct access to servers of firms as like when I'm typing this email I am also having /a direct access/ to Gmail's servers. This either a ploy by some pro-privacy extremist or a prank by somebody who's tired of these hyperbole privacy outcries. 2013/6/6 Peter Eckersley peter.eckers...@gmail.com mailto:peter.eckers...@gmail.com Of course, I was reading to fast and leaning to heavily on control+f. Anyway, 20 million annually seems like a very low number by the usual standards of efficiency in Department of Defense programs. But the NSA might already have a data storage, processing and query architecture in place that is either not included in this budget or only included on a marginal cost basis. On 6 June 2013 16:45, Peter Eckersley peter.eckers...@gmail.com mailto:peter.eckers...@gmail.com wrote: Where did you get the $20m budget number from? I can't find it in any of the stories or attached materials. But I could be missing something. On 6 June 2013 16:14, x z xhzh...@gmail.com mailto:xhzh...@gmail.com wrote: doesn't seem real to me. especially the part *direct access to servers* of firms ..., and with an annual budget of measly $20m. 2013/6/6 Michael Carbone mich...@accessnow.org mailto:mich...@accessnow.org Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data WaPo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story_1.html some of the slides (haven't seen the full ppt drop): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/ Participating companies in chronological order: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, YouTube, Skype, AOL, Apple. Dropbox apparently next up. -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu mailto:compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu mailto:compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Peter -- Peter -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu mailto:compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech *R. Jason Cronk, Esq., CIPP/US* /Privacy Engineering Consultant/, *Enterprivacy Consulting Group* enterprivacy.com * phone: (828) 4RJCESQ * twitter: @privacymaverick.com * blog: http://blog.privacymaverick.com -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech - -- Michael Carbone Manager of Tech Policy Programs Access | https://www.accessnow.org mich...@accessnow.org | PGP: 0x81B7A13E PGP Fingerprint: 25EC 1D0F 2D44 C4F4 5BEF EF83 C471 AD94 81B7 A13E -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
This is just circumstantial speculation but read http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2013/06/is_this_who_runs_prism.php Given Palantir's rapid expansion and aggressive recruitment, I think this guy might be onto something. I suspect that what is being described in the slides is not direct backdoor access to the live systems, but rather regularly aggregated data being sent to a central location to be contextualized using Palantir's analytics. From the perspective of the analyst working with Palantir's software, he can do lookups and cross references between the databases seemingly live. At tech talks, Palantir employees will often stress the fact that their analytic software comes with built-in privacy controls, i.e. fine-grained user permission control so that analysts are given only the specific subset of data points or data columns that they need to do their job. Perhaps the so-called EULA described in the Washington Post article is really just part of the analytics software as opposed to some live Google backdoor API. Certainly this would seem a more plausible scenario than direct access given the cited budget and denial from the major tech companies of direct access. Raven On 7 June 2013 10:15, David Miller da...@deadpansincerity.com wrote: On 7 June 2013 15:13, R. Jason Cronk r...@privacymaverick.com wrote: - The Powerpoint is amateurish (then again with no budget.) These powerpoint slides are too amateurish to be real Poe's Law of Powerpoint states: A fundamental constraint of the known universe is that once your organisation grows to more than 100 people, it is impossible to create a parodic Powerpoint deck more amateurish than a Powerpoint deck being genuinely used within said organisation. -- Love regards etc David Miller http://www.deadpansincerity.com 07854 880 883 -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
Hi all, I have the same feeling with Raven's. It appears that the PRISM program does exist, and that amateurish Power Point training material is real (so I take back my ploy or prank remark). However, none of this proves Guardian's headline claim NSA taps in to internet giants' systems to mine user data, or direct access to servers of firms including Google, Facebook and Apple. From reading the four pages of the slides, what is actually in place, is likely just a data mining system that analyzes information NSA gathered from these firms via the usual means (which should be of no surprise to any of us). It's likely that NSA stores information from different providers on different databases and servers (say, one for Facebook, one for Apple), and the PRISM system can collect directly from these servers. And yes, a $20M annual budget can handle that, probably half of that if it's not the government. Guardian and Washington Post grossly misreported this and misled their readers. After all, most journalists do not have much clue about technology. I have hoped people on this mailing list understand better how much it takes to implement a real direct access to servers from firms like Google, Facebook and Apple, and the ability to do in-depth surveillance on live communication. This is a gargantuan task, even for these firms to build an internal tool like this themselves. And all these firms participate in this (direct tapping) program, and all denying it? That's enough of conspiracy theory. Get real. In a previous email Eugen asked he would reexamine why you are reading this list. Yes I read this list because I care for internet freedom and privacy. But we need to have basic sense, in order to fight the good fight. We do need to limit NSA's power for what they are actually doing, not this surreal direct tapping thing. It's in our responsibility to stop this Guardian/PRISM junk, and I am very disappointed that many people on this mailing list do the exact opposite, i.e. jumping the Guardian bandwagon to promote their own products. (It is not that I'm against your product or your promoting it, but please do not use the Guardian story for it). 2013/6/7 Raven Jiang CX j...@stanford.edu This is just circumstantial speculation but read http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2013/06/is_this_who_runs_prism.php Given Palantir's rapid expansion and aggressive recruitment, I think this guy might be onto something. I suspect that what is being described in the slides is not direct backdoor access to the live systems, but rather regularly aggregated data being sent to a central location to be contextualized using Palantir's analytics. From the perspective of the analyst working with Palantir's software, he can do lookups and cross references between the databases seemingly live. At tech talks, Palantir employees will often stress the fact that their analytic software comes with built-in privacy controls, i.e. fine-grained user permission control so that analysts are given only the specific subset of data points or data columns that they need to do their job. Perhaps the so-called EULA described in the Washington Post article is really just part of the analytics software as opposed to some live Google backdoor API. Certainly this would seem a more plausible scenario than direct access given the cited budget and denial from the major tech companies of direct access. Raven On 7 June 2013 10:15, David Miller da...@deadpansincerity.com wrote: On 7 June 2013 15:13, R. Jason Cronk r...@privacymaverick.com wrote: - The Powerpoint is amateurish (then again with no budget.) These powerpoint slides are too amateurish to be real Poe's Law of Powerpoint states: A fundamental constraint of the known universe is that once your organisation grows to more than 100 people, it is impossible to create a parodic Powerpoint deck more amateurish than a Powerpoint deck being genuinely used within said organisation. -- Love regards etc David Miller http://www.deadpansincerity.com 07854 880 883 -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
On Jun 6, 2013 7:28 PM, Eduardo Robles Elvira edu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello NSA just $20M of budget? The same NSA that is building a data center (for processing what? =) for 869 million USD$ in Maryland? http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/06/06/2129249/nsa-building-860-million-data-center-in-maryland The $20 million figure refers to the budget for the Prism program, not the whole NSA. -tom -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Still that figures seems awfully small. For whats involved. I've seen telco projects of a fraction the size of something like this costing £10M. Unless they've managed to get the companies to foot the majority of the bill? In that case, why would the companies accept the majority of the costs? Too many questions and too many possibilities for conspiracy theories.. On 7 Jun 2013, at 01:14, Tom Ritter wrote: On Jun 6, 2013 7:28 PM, Eduardo Robles Elvira edu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello NSA just $20M of budget? The same NSA that is building a data center (for processing what? =) for 869 million USD$ in Maryland? http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/06/06/2129249/nsa-building-860-million-data-center-in-maryland The $20 million figure refers to the budget for the Prism program, not the whole NSA. -tom -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech - -- Bernard / bluboxthief / ei8fdb IO91XM / www.ei8fdb.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRsSbLAAoJENsz1IO7MIrrOHgIALc4QgXsSOiUlJeB1YTHDAdI IH1dITgo8Oo2WzWpTg6ky3zG+G0TykJyFvhWRVJdLH7rBEZocL1/tRHX+p3FuiA5 vTWHiDqy1dgUgXuew7OvTpNVaYtWM8aLOkSLGhPVbtVx2N/hGFQbWY+E5NNoYkm6 VIZHjK03ZTcviUQkiXiQxWfWjr/u8MJdMjgNyd8/Sz3pSMdEztQP986G99WGJQ/u 9Pcl6jqWC5rD7XDOull/erknUglq1IVmz7VH/l1GsC/9Xmi1WdQHvKvPgJqebUWv 0jw3wM+eVe17MZuLmtKf6v9NnMid8WkOXybL7C3HgXhbJmPAMWamr3FgC2Zx9N4= =BMwp -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
It might be that PRISM is merely the end user tool for use by analysts at the NSA, and that the actual gathering of info falls under another program designation, with a much larger budget. PRISM isn't really even that illegal, as long as they discard communications considered to be American. The NSA has been listening to radio signals from all over the world for years, from military bases strategically positioned to pickup radio signals of interest, amongst other types of communication data. This is really just the extension of similar ideas, to a new form of communications, the novel part of the whole thing is that it leverages the fact that so many tech companies are located in the US and that a ton of the internet backbone is run through America. -Andrew On Jun 7, 2013, at 12:18 PM, Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb ei8...@ei8fdb.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Still that figures seems awfully small. For whats involved. I've seen telco projects of a fraction the size of something like this costing £10M. Unless they've managed to get the companies to foot the majority of the bill? In that case, why would the companies accept the majority of the costs? Too many questions and too many possibilities for conspiracy theories.. On 7 Jun 2013, at 01:14, Tom Ritter wrote: On Jun 6, 2013 7:28 PM, Eduardo Robles Elvira edu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello NSA just $20M of budget? The same NSA that is building a data center (for processing what? =) for 869 million USD$ in Maryland? http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/06/06/2129249/nsa-building-860-million-data-center-in-maryland The $20 million figure refers to the budget for the Prism program, not the whole NSA. -tom -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech - -- Bernard / bluboxthief / ei8fdb IO91XM / www.ei8fdb.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRsSbLAAoJENsz1IO7MIrrOHgIALc4QgXsSOiUlJeB1YTHDAdI IH1dITgo8Oo2WzWpTg6ky3zG+G0TykJyFvhWRVJdLH7rBEZocL1/tRHX+p3FuiA5 vTWHiDqy1dgUgXuew7OvTpNVaYtWM8aLOkSLGhPVbtVx2N/hGFQbWY+E5NNoYkm6 VIZHjK03ZTcviUQkiXiQxWfWjr/u8MJdMjgNyd8/Sz3pSMdEztQP986G99WGJQ/u 9Pcl6jqWC5rD7XDOull/erknUglq1IVmz7VH/l1GsC/9Xmi1WdQHvKvPgJqebUWv 0jw3wM+eVe17MZuLmtKf6v9NnMid8WkOXybL7C3HgXhbJmPAMWamr3FgC2Zx9N4= =BMwp -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
Of course, I was reading to fast and leaning to heavily on control+f. Anyway, 20 million annually seems like a very low number by the usual standards of efficiency in Department of Defense programs. But the NSA might already have a data storage, processing and query architecture in place that is either not included in this budget or only included on a marginal cost basis. On 6 June 2013 16:45, Peter Eckersley peter.eckers...@gmail.com wrote: Where did you get the $20m budget number from? I can't find it in any of the stories or attached materials. But I could be missing something. On 6 June 2013 16:14, x z xhzh...@gmail.com wrote: doesn't seem real to me. especially the part *direct access to servers*of firms ..., and with an annual budget of measly $20m. 2013/6/6 Michael Carbone mich...@accessnow.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data WaPo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story_1.html some of the slides (haven't seen the full ppt drop): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/ Participating companies in chronological order: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, YouTube, Skype, AOL, Apple. Dropbox apparently next up. - -- Michael Carbone Manager of Tech Policy Programs Access | https://www.accessnow.org mich...@accessnow.org | PGP: 0x81B7A13E PGP Fingerprint: 25EC 1D0F 2D44 C4F4 5BEF EF83 C471 AD94 81B7 A13E -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRsQujAAoJEDH9usG3Jz33lFoP/1vRZ6qTJhlvShNtfktlSB9x qxlHoFJBu4DV6YzEGPNnshb+hRiTk4iC+bksmBIIvZ5WZVVUUR3japU7QtOMhKtr +YAkxlStumySUBPEyx2t83VDv2d2yYhKxPDELVhs4lxeY+IS1pxN7wv3SulkI5qM 1UciTdL1ok4t9jerWQf/g9wxmWm5GNF7hVHMQu3uI7lYgCIIupoWggj43nGu2dYR CUQ6j+e6H7KpusabNx8DlDujCw1/Pfxb/kkvz5tT9tJfZucZ26sMpjJZTDKWHCfs TITJAUQg0g7eAoh5ehzxGBamjiPwKwXdfomg2QP9f6Rq4WCh2EBsBL0grbMA6K2e Y83J+2oInCdnpxDTvQfk41uFdh2awg7QPrndt9s9XwOY5ShUj+BH4L/6dkGtZG4r iadK/JD7YU5cgI+m4HQab7+b/CSB2P4a+57XP4Hfz7aNYfe+jPjBJbEl46Srnbg2 5xCcgYGJQSoGGvxCDJYLwjZdFo/t7XFspCrfcuIMvKr9njVJgffeW+5qS0czqC9D vaNhS5TQ4O6pXsA2jTpbDyqNN/HbLXCupgLyUq9Kh+dYYUeaavwGQj/CwsMD0SKe CRykJUW1VTtu0BXbT86et47yAldsdYc/fuhnoONWDCP5WOu9he/SXDfQELeyH/KG FRpkJRX7ijLlTySwbbpD =NvtB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Peter -- Peter -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
Where did you get the $20m budget number from? I can't find it in any of the stories or attached materials. But I could be missing something. On 6 June 2013 16:14, x z xhzh...@gmail.com wrote: doesn't seem real to me. especially the part *direct access to servers*of firms ..., and with an annual budget of measly $20m. 2013/6/6 Michael Carbone mich...@accessnow.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data WaPo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story_1.html some of the slides (haven't seen the full ppt drop): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/ Participating companies in chronological order: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, YouTube, Skype, AOL, Apple. Dropbox apparently next up. - -- Michael Carbone Manager of Tech Policy Programs Access | https://www.accessnow.org mich...@accessnow.org | PGP: 0x81B7A13E PGP Fingerprint: 25EC 1D0F 2D44 C4F4 5BEF EF83 C471 AD94 81B7 A13E -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRsQujAAoJEDH9usG3Jz33lFoP/1vRZ6qTJhlvShNtfktlSB9x qxlHoFJBu4DV6YzEGPNnshb+hRiTk4iC+bksmBIIvZ5WZVVUUR3japU7QtOMhKtr +YAkxlStumySUBPEyx2t83VDv2d2yYhKxPDELVhs4lxeY+IS1pxN7wv3SulkI5qM 1UciTdL1ok4t9jerWQf/g9wxmWm5GNF7hVHMQu3uI7lYgCIIupoWggj43nGu2dYR CUQ6j+e6H7KpusabNx8DlDujCw1/Pfxb/kkvz5tT9tJfZucZ26sMpjJZTDKWHCfs TITJAUQg0g7eAoh5ehzxGBamjiPwKwXdfomg2QP9f6Rq4WCh2EBsBL0grbMA6K2e Y83J+2oInCdnpxDTvQfk41uFdh2awg7QPrndt9s9XwOY5ShUj+BH4L/6dkGtZG4r iadK/JD7YU5cgI+m4HQab7+b/CSB2P4a+57XP4Hfz7aNYfe+jPjBJbEl46Srnbg2 5xCcgYGJQSoGGvxCDJYLwjZdFo/t7XFspCrfcuIMvKr9njVJgffeW+5qS0czqC9D vaNhS5TQ4O6pXsA2jTpbDyqNN/HbLXCupgLyUq9Kh+dYYUeaavwGQj/CwsMD0SKe CRykJUW1VTtu0BXbT86et47yAldsdYc/fuhnoONWDCP5WOu9he/SXDfQELeyH/KG FRpkJRX7ijLlTySwbbpD =NvtB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Peter -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
What surprised me is how Guardian and Washington Post cover this story. The Power Point slides looks laughable to me. Maybe I should interpret direct access to servers of firms as like when I'm typing this email I am also having *a direct access* to Gmail's servers. This either a ploy by some pro-privacy extremist or a prank by somebody who's tired of these hyperbole privacy outcries. 2013/6/6 Peter Eckersley peter.eckers...@gmail.com Of course, I was reading to fast and leaning to heavily on control+f. Anyway, 20 million annually seems like a very low number by the usual standards of efficiency in Department of Defense programs. But the NSA might already have a data storage, processing and query architecture in place that is either not included in this budget or only included on a marginal cost basis. On 6 June 2013 16:45, Peter Eckersley peter.eckers...@gmail.com wrote: Where did you get the $20m budget number from? I can't find it in any of the stories or attached materials. But I could be missing something. On 6 June 2013 16:14, x z xhzh...@gmail.com wrote: doesn't seem real to me. especially the part *direct access to servers * of firms ..., and with an annual budget of measly $20m. 2013/6/6 Michael Carbone mich...@accessnow.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data WaPo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story_1.html some of the slides (haven't seen the full ppt drop): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/ Participating companies in chronological order: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, YouTube, Skype, AOL, Apple. Dropbox apparently next up. - -- Michael Carbone Manager of Tech Policy Programs Access | https://www.accessnow.org mich...@accessnow.org | PGP: 0x81B7A13E PGP Fingerprint: 25EC 1D0F 2D44 C4F4 5BEF EF83 C471 AD94 81B7 A13E -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRsQujAAoJEDH9usG3Jz33lFoP/1vRZ6qTJhlvShNtfktlSB9x qxlHoFJBu4DV6YzEGPNnshb+hRiTk4iC+bksmBIIvZ5WZVVUUR3japU7QtOMhKtr +YAkxlStumySUBPEyx2t83VDv2d2yYhKxPDELVhs4lxeY+IS1pxN7wv3SulkI5qM 1UciTdL1ok4t9jerWQf/g9wxmWm5GNF7hVHMQu3uI7lYgCIIupoWggj43nGu2dYR CUQ6j+e6H7KpusabNx8DlDujCw1/Pfxb/kkvz5tT9tJfZucZ26sMpjJZTDKWHCfs TITJAUQg0g7eAoh5ehzxGBamjiPwKwXdfomg2QP9f6Rq4WCh2EBsBL0grbMA6K2e Y83J+2oInCdnpxDTvQfk41uFdh2awg7QPrndt9s9XwOY5ShUj+BH4L/6dkGtZG4r iadK/JD7YU5cgI+m4HQab7+b/CSB2P4a+57XP4Hfz7aNYfe+jPjBJbEl46Srnbg2 5xCcgYGJQSoGGvxCDJYLwjZdFo/t7XFspCrfcuIMvKr9njVJgffeW+5qS0czqC9D vaNhS5TQ4O6pXsA2jTpbDyqNN/HbLXCupgLyUq9Kh+dYYUeaavwGQj/CwsMD0SKe CRykJUW1VTtu0BXbT86et47yAldsdYc/fuhnoONWDCP5WOu9he/SXDfQELeyH/KG FRpkJRX7ijLlTySwbbpD =NvtB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Peter -- Peter -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
Re: [liberationtech] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret ppt reveals
There seems to be some confirmation via this statement from the DNI: http://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/191-press-releases-2013/869-dni-statement-on-activities-authorized-under-section-702-of-fisa On Jun 7, 2013, at 4:23 PM, x z xhzh...@gmail.com wrote: What surprised me is how Guardian and Washington Post cover this story. The Power Point slides looks laughable to me. Maybe I should interpret direct access to servers of firms as like when I'm typing this email I am also having a direct access to Gmail's servers. This either a ploy by some pro-privacy extremist or a prank by somebody who's tired of these hyperbole privacy outcries. 2013/6/6 Peter Eckersley peter.eckers...@gmail.com Of course, I was reading to fast and leaning to heavily on control+f. Anyway, 20 million annually seems like a very low number by the usual standards of efficiency in Department of Defense programs. But the NSA might already have a data storage, processing and query architecture in place that is either not included in this budget or only included on a marginal cost basis. On 6 June 2013 16:45, Peter Eckersley peter.eckers...@gmail.com wrote: Where did you get the $20m budget number from? I can't find it in any of the stories or attached materials. But I could be missing something. On 6 June 2013 16:14, x z xhzh...@gmail.com wrote: doesn't seem real to me. especially the part direct access to servers of firms ..., and with an annual budget of measly $20m. 2013/6/6 Michael Carbone mich...@accessnow.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data WaPo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story_1.html some of the slides (haven't seen the full ppt drop): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/ Participating companies in chronological order: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, YouTube, Skype, AOL, Apple. Dropbox apparently next up. - -- Michael Carbone Manager of Tech Policy Programs Access | https://www.accessnow.org mich...@accessnow.org | PGP: 0x81B7A13E PGP Fingerprint: 25EC 1D0F 2D44 C4F4 5BEF EF83 C471 AD94 81B7 A13E -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRsQujAAoJEDH9usG3Jz33lFoP/1vRZ6qTJhlvShNtfktlSB9x qxlHoFJBu4DV6YzEGPNnshb+hRiTk4iC+bksmBIIvZ5WZVVUUR3japU7QtOMhKtr +YAkxlStumySUBPEyx2t83VDv2d2yYhKxPDELVhs4lxeY+IS1pxN7wv3SulkI5qM 1UciTdL1ok4t9jerWQf/g9wxmWm5GNF7hVHMQu3uI7lYgCIIupoWggj43nGu2dYR CUQ6j+e6H7KpusabNx8DlDujCw1/Pfxb/kkvz5tT9tJfZucZ26sMpjJZTDKWHCfs TITJAUQg0g7eAoh5ehzxGBamjiPwKwXdfomg2QP9f6Rq4WCh2EBsBL0grbMA6K2e Y83J+2oInCdnpxDTvQfk41uFdh2awg7QPrndt9s9XwOY5ShUj+BH4L/6dkGtZG4r iadK/JD7YU5cgI+m4HQab7+b/CSB2P4a+57XP4Hfz7aNYfe+jPjBJbEl46Srnbg2 5xCcgYGJQSoGGvxCDJYLwjZdFo/t7XFspCrfcuIMvKr9njVJgffeW+5qS0czqC9D vaNhS5TQ4O6pXsA2jTpbDyqNN/HbLXCupgLyUq9Kh+dYYUeaavwGQj/CwsMD0SKe CRykJUW1VTtu0BXbT86et47yAldsdYc/fuhnoONWDCP5WOu9he/SXDfQELeyH/KG FRpkJRX7ijLlTySwbbpD =NvtB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Peter -- Peter -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
