RE: Horizontal note spacing

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Abraham,

 

I have tried setting new spacing sections every which way with no success. I 
think it is the dodecaphonic accidental style combined with the cross staff 
kneed beaming that causes the difficulty. Unless I just don’t understand how to 
use them. Plus I think this is muddied by the overall score proportional 
spacing settings, but I am really not sure how they interact with new spacing 
sections. But I have not thought of your suggestion. What settings of the 
SpacingSpanner grob would be in play here?

 

And something I have wanted to ask just forever – what is this springs and rods 
business? The IR is rather terse, as is its wont.

 

Andrew

 

From: Abraham Lee [mailto:tisimst.lilyp...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2016 1:40 PM
To: Andrew Bernard 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Horizontal note spacing

 

Have a look in the IR at the grob SpacingSpanner. It's properties control all 
the optical spacing functionality. You can turn off/on the optical properties 
whenever you want.

 

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Re: Horizontal note spacing

[Abraham Lee]

Andrew,

On Tuesday, November 22, 2016, Andrew Bernard 
wrote:

> Greetings All,
>
>
>
> With the reasonably complex contemporary music that I engrave for my
> colleague, I often come across situations where lilypond spaces note stems
> in a beamed group unevenly, but we would like them to be equally spaced.
> Lilypond is certainly doing the right thing, but we particularly want an
> optically even spacing rather than the probably technically correct
> engraving practice that lilypond produces.
>
>
>
> I use proportional spacing in my actual scores, but have not included that
> in the MWE, as it makes no difference. The MWE here shows the uneven
> spacing of the stems in the grace note figures. It would be excellent if I
> could shift the note columns around to even this up visually. I am not
> saying this is a bug – just an effect I would like to have control over.
>
>
>
> A function would be nice, as I have hundreds of these cases. Is this
> possible by any stretch of the imagination?
>
>
>
> [Sorry this is a bit unminimal but I need to illustrate the matter
> exactly, and I wanted to show two examples of this, from an actual score.]
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> == snip
>
>
>
> \version "2.19.50"
>
>
>
> treble = {
>
>   \clef treble
>
>   \time 1/4
>
>
>
>   c'4
>
>   16 16. 16
>
>   32
>
>   c'4
>
> }
>
>
>
> bass = {
>
>   \clef treble
>
>   \time 1/4
>
>
>
>   c'4
>
>
>
>   \override Beam.positions = #'(5 . 5)
>
>   \grace {
>
> \set tieWaitForNote = ##t
>
> b8[ _~ c' _~ d' ^~ ees' ^~
>
> \change Staff = treble \stemDown
>
> g']
>
> \change Staff = bass \stemUp
>
>   }
>
>   \once \override Beam.positions = #'(4 . 4)
>
>
>
>   8..[
>
>   \grace {
>
> \set tieWaitForNote = ##t
>
> a8[ _~ c' _~ des' _~ e' ^~
>
> \change Staff = treble \stemDown
>
> fis']
>
> \change Staff = bass \stemUp
>
>   }
>
>   32] |
>
>
>
>   c'4
>
> }
>
>
>
> \score {
>
>
>
>   \new PianoStaff
>
>   <<
>
> \new Staff = "treble" \treble
>
> \new Staff = "bass" \bass
>
>   >>
>
>
>
>   \layout {
>
> \context {
>
>   \Score
>
>   \accidentalStyle Score.dodecaphonic
>
> }
>
>   }
>
> }
>
> == snip
>

Have a look in the IR at the grob SpacingSpanner. It's properties control
all the optical spacing functionality. You can turn off/on the optical
properties whenever you want.

HTH,
Abraham
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Horizontal note spacing

[Andrew Bernard]

Greetings All,

 

With the reasonably complex contemporary music that I engrave for my
colleague, I often come across situations where lilypond spaces note stems
in a beamed group unevenly, but we would like them to be equally spaced.
Lilypond is certainly doing the right thing, but we particularly want an
optically even spacing rather than the probably technically correct
engraving practice that lilypond produces.

 

I use proportional spacing in my actual scores, but have not included that
in the MWE, as it makes no difference. The MWE here shows the uneven spacing
of the stems in the grace note figures. It would be excellent if I could
shift the note columns around to even this up visually. I am not saying this
is a bug - just an effect I would like to have control over.

 

A function would be nice, as I have hundreds of these cases. Is this
possible by any stretch of the imagination?

 

[Sorry this is a bit unminimal but I need to illustrate the matter exactly,
and I wanted to show two examples of this, from an actual score.]

 

Andrew

 

== snip

 

\version "2.19.50"

 

treble = {

  \clef treble

  \time 1/4

 

  c'4

  16 16. 16

  32

  c'4

}

 

bass = {

  \clef treble

  \time 1/4

 

  c'4

 

  \override Beam.positions = #'(5 . 5)

  \grace {

\set tieWaitForNote = ##t

b8[ _~ c' _~ d' ^~ ees' ^~

\change Staff = treble \stemDown

g']

\change Staff = bass \stemUp

  }

  \once \override Beam.positions = #'(4 . 4)

 

  8..[

  \grace {

\set tieWaitForNote = ##t

a8[ _~ c' _~ des' _~ e' ^~

\change Staff = treble \stemDown

fis']

\change Staff = bass \stemUp

  }

  32] |

 

  c'4

}

 

\score {

 

  \new PianoStaff

  <<

\new Staff = "treble" \treble

\new Staff = "bass" \bass

  >>

 

  \layout {

\context {

  \Score

  \accidentalStyle Score.dodecaphonic

}

  }

}

== snip

 

 

 

 

 

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RE: Header fields in custom footer

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Joram,

I think this function is what you require:

http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=467

Andrew



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Re: Header fields in custom footer

[Noeck]

> How can I use \fromproperty in scheme? Because I want to do some string
> operations before inserting the field in the footer.

I thought I was close but obviously not:

\header {
  title = "Title"
}

\markup #(format "a ~a z" (markup->string (markup #:fromproperty
'header:title)))

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Header fields in custom footer

[Noeck]

Hi,

I am struggling with custom footers:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/custom-titles-headers-and-footers#custom-layout-for-headers-and-footers


Can I use a header property as url in \with-url?
\with-url \fromproperty #'header:url \fromproperty #'header:composer
does not work.

Can \on-the-fly only directly precede a single markup? I can't write
\on-the-fly #not-first-page \column \fill-line ...

How can I use \fromproperty in scheme? Because I want to do some string
operations before inserting the field in the footer.

Examples:
\markup \with-url \fromproperty #'header:url \fromproperty #'header:foo
\markup \on-the-fly #not-first-page \column \fill-line { "A" "B" "C"}


TIA,
Joram

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Re: general question for composers

[H. S. Teoh]

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 01:18:53PM -0800, Tobin Chodos wrote:
>hi all,
> 
>this is a general question for composers using lilypond.  at what
>point in your process do you generally start engraving?  Like most
>composers coming from the consumer notation softwares, I'm
>accustomed to working in pencil first, but not to completely
>separating the engraving and composition tasks.  Curious about
>composer perspectives about this with lilypond.  are there
>strategies for working with a lilypond file while still composing?
[...]

I usually sketch on paper or in my head when I get an initial idea, but
I start inputting things into lilypond quite early on.  However, instead
of inputting the full score right from the get-go, what I do is to use
multiple \score{} blocks for working out various separate passages,
possible harmonizations, etc., just to be able to visually work out some
of the details, listen to the MIDI approximation, etc..

Once I am confident enough with these "lilypond sketches", I set aside
the input file(s) and begin the "real" score as a different (set of)
input file(s). The original worked out passages are either copy-n-pasted
or retyped into the new file(s); quite often I would get new ideas in
the process and may diverge from the initial lilypond sketches. But
having them still available as other input files allows easier
consultation with my original ideas and copy-n-pasting if/when I decide
to.  So I'd say I begin typing lilypond input quite early in the
composing process, which may or may not be a good idea, but at least I
find it helpful to be able to see the score early on and to take
advantage of the computer's editing functions (i.e., change notes
without needing to rewrite an entire staff or system or even page).

Of course, lilypond input being what it is, certain editing functions
are more troublesome than others; e.g., inserting/deleting bars from the
middle of the piece can involve a lot of grunt work.  I heard that
Frescobaldi(?) is supposed to ease a lot of this grunt work, but I still
prefer working directly with the plain text files.  To that end, I find
it very helpful to have a consistent, very rigid structure to my
lilypond files -- even though lilypond does allow very flexible input
syntax, in large complex pieces this quickly becomes unmanageable.

So I impose upon myself a certain format, such as having no more than 1
bar per input line, grouping bars into "stanzas" of 4 bars each,
delimited by a blank line, prepending passages with a unique comment
header such that it's easy to jump to a specific passage just by
searching for that unique string. I also use bar checks '|' both at the
beginning *and* end of every bar, which is redundant, of course, but
does serve the useful purpose of visually indicating the start and end
of a bar (esp. in complex pieces where a bar may span multiple lines) so
that I can easily identify a bar with just a glance. It makes counting
groups of bars much easier, and less confusing to find things in the
middle of a bar.

In multi-instrument works, I found it too troublesome to keep each
instrument part to a separate file -- I spend too much time switching
between files and trying to figure out where things are in each file,
and keeping a large number of files in sync.  Instead, I keep everything
in a single file with each instrument's part in a uniquely named
variable (e.g., violinIPart, violinIIPart, trumpetIPart, trumpetIIPart,
etc.), and navigate by using my editor's search function for that unique
part name, and then the section header string, which is duplicated
consistently across all parts (even if they consist of just rests /
spacers).  Some amount of effort is required to keep all these markers
in sync with each other, but in my experience I find that they save a
lot more time when navigating the input file, than it takes to maintain
them.

True, inserting a bar here or there would require updating every
instrument part manually, but in theory if I keep to a consistent,
strict layout then I could probably write an editor script for
performing such operations.  Originally, I thought of assigning each
passage to its own variable, so that I can add new bars to a passage
without disrupting subsequent passages, but in the end it was too
complex and messy to keep everything in sync (and to remember new names
for passages or invent a system for keeping them straight), so I stuck
with one variable per instrument part under a consistent naming scheme.

When I need to insert an extensive passage in the middle of a piece,
sometimes it's easier to do it in reduced score in a separate lilypond
input file until I work out exactly the right number of bars it would
need, before actually updating each instrument in the main input file
with the right number of spacers / filler bars that eventually will get
filled with the new notes. That way I know exactly how many rests to
insert in each instrument part. (I always 

trill starting note midi articulate

[Gianmaria Lari]

If I write

\version "2.19.49"
\include "articulate.ly"

\score
{
  \displayLilyMusic \articulate {c'4\trill}
  \layout {}
  \midi{}
}


the trill generated starts with d. Is there any way to make "articulate"
generating the trill from c?
Thank you, g.
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Re: Cautionary Accidental Stencil

[tisimst]

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Abraham Lee 
wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Benjamin Strecker [via Lilypond] <
> ml-node+s1069038n197011...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello!
>>
>> I am working from an edition that uses square brackets for items added
>> by the editors.  I was able to change the stencils property for
>> \parenthesize for most of these, but there are some accidentals that
>> have been added.  Currently, I'm using the following to produce a
>> reasonable approximation, but are there any simpler ways to do this?
>>
>> \version "2.19.50"
>>
>> %% Set of overrides to approximate a cautionary natural inside square
>> brackets instead of parentheses
>> brackNat = {
>>   \once\override AccidentalCautionary.stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
>>   \once\override AccidentalCautionary.text = \markup {
>> \concat{\translate #'(0.0 . -0.7) [
>> \musicglyph #"accidentals.natural"
>> \translate #'(0.0 . -0.7) ]}
>>   }
>> }
>>
>> \score {
>>   \new Staff {
>> c''4 c''? \brackNat c''? c''
>>   }
>> }
>>
>> Thanks for any advice you can offer!
>>
>
> Here's how you can use the same functionality as the markup macro
> "bracket" to do the job:
>
> %%%
>
> \version "2.19.36"
>
> bracketAcc = {
>   \once \override AccidentalCautionary.parenthesized = ##f
>   \once \override AccidentalCautionary.stencil =
>   #(lambda (grob)
>  (let ((stil (ly:accidental-interface::print grob))
>(th 0.1))
>(bracketify-stencil stil Y th (* 2.5 th) th)))
> }
>
> \score {
>   \new Staff {
> c''4 c''? \bracketAcc c''? c''
>   }
> }
>
> %%%
>
> An unfortunate side-effect of this is that each accidental's brackets will
> look different because it draws brackets that span the accidental's exact
> vertical extent (e.g., compare a flat vs. a natural). So, here's another
> variant that I cobbled together based on the same macro and the underlying
> "bracketify-stencil" command. It works better because it makes the brackets
> *act like the normal parentheses* so you get a more consistent look for any
> accidental:
>
> %%%
>
> \version "2.19.36"
>
> bracketAcc = {
>   \once \override AccidentalCautionary.parenthesized = ##f
>   \once \override AccidentalCautionary.stencil =
>   #(lambda (grob)
>  (let* ((paren-stil
>   (grob-interpret-markup grob
> (markup #:musicglyph "accidentals.leftparen")))
> (axis Y)
> (other-axis (lambda (a) (remainder (+ a 1) 2)))
> (ext (ly:stencil-extent paren-stil axis))
> (stil (ly:accidental-interface::print grob))
> (thick
>   (ly:output-def-lookup (ly:grob-layout grob) 'line-thickness
> 0.1))
> (padding thick)
> (protrusion (* 2.5 thick))
> (lb (ly:bracket axis ext thick protrusion))
> (rb (ly:bracket axis ext thick (- protrusion
>(set! stil
>  (ly:stencil-combine-at-edge stil (other-axis axis) 1 rb
> padding))
>(set! stil
>  (ly:stencil-combine-at-edge stil (other-axis axis) -1 lb
> padding))
>stil))
> }
>
> \score {
>   \new Staff {
> c''4 c''? \bracketAcc c''? c''
>   }
> }
>
> %%%
>
> HTH,
> Abraham
>

For completeness, here's another approach from the LSR:
http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=564

Best,
Abraham




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Re: Cautionary Accidental Stencil

[tisimst]

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Benjamin Strecker [via Lilypond] <
ml-node+s1069038n197011...@n5.nabble.com> wrote:

> Hello!
>
> I am working from an edition that uses square brackets for items added
> by the editors.  I was able to change the stencils property for
> \parenthesize for most of these, but there are some accidentals that
> have been added.  Currently, I'm using the following to produce a
> reasonable approximation, but are there any simpler ways to do this?
>
> \version "2.19.50"
>
> %% Set of overrides to approximate a cautionary natural inside square
> brackets instead of parentheses
> brackNat = {
>   \once\override AccidentalCautionary.stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
>   \once\override AccidentalCautionary.text = \markup {
> \concat{\translate #'(0.0 . -0.7) [
> \musicglyph #"accidentals.natural"
> \translate #'(0.0 . -0.7) ]}
>   }
> }
>
> \score {
>   \new Staff {
> c''4 c''? \brackNat c''? c''
>   }
> }
>
> Thanks for any advice you can offer!
>

Here's how you can use the same functionality as the markup macro "bracket"
to do the job:

%%%

\version "2.19.36"

bracketAcc = {
  \once \override AccidentalCautionary.parenthesized = ##f
  \once \override AccidentalCautionary.stencil =
  #(lambda (grob)
 (let ((stil (ly:accidental-interface::print grob))
   (th 0.1))
   (bracketify-stencil stil Y th (* 2.5 th) th)))
}

\score {
  \new Staff {
c''4 c''? \bracketAcc c''? c''
  }
}

%%%

An unfortunate side-effect of this is that each accidental's brackets will
look different because it draws brackets that span the accidental's exact
vertical extent (e.g., compare a flat vs. a natural). So, here's another
variant that I cobbled together based on the same macro and the underlying
"bracketify-stencil" command. It works better because it makes the brackets
*act like the normal parentheses* so you get a more consistent look for any
accidental:

%%%

\version "2.19.36"

bracketAcc = {
  \once \override AccidentalCautionary.parenthesized = ##f
  \once \override AccidentalCautionary.stencil =
  #(lambda (grob)
 (let* ((paren-stil
  (grob-interpret-markup grob
(markup #:musicglyph "accidentals.leftparen")))
(axis Y)
(other-axis (lambda (a) (remainder (+ a 1) 2)))
(ext (ly:stencil-extent paren-stil axis))
(stil (ly:accidental-interface::print grob))
(thick
  (ly:output-def-lookup (ly:grob-layout grob) 'line-thickness
0.1))
(padding thick)
(protrusion (* 2.5 thick))
(lb (ly:bracket axis ext thick protrusion))
(rb (ly:bracket axis ext thick (- protrusion
   (set! stil
 (ly:stencil-combine-at-edge stil (other-axis axis) 1 rb
padding))
   (set! stil
 (ly:stencil-combine-at-edge stil (other-axis axis) -1 lb
padding))
   stil))
}

\score {
  \new Staff {
c''4 c''? \bracketAcc c''? c''
  }
}

%%%

HTH,
Abraham




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Cautionary Accidental Stencil

[Benjamin Strecker]

Hello!

I am working from an edition that uses square brackets for items added
by the editors.  I was able to change the stencils property for
\parenthesize for most of these, but there are some accidentals that
have been added.  Currently, I'm using the following to produce a
reasonable approximation, but are there any simpler ways to do this?

\version "2.19.50"

%% Set of overrides to approximate a cautionary natural inside square
brackets instead of parentheses
brackNat = {
  \once\override AccidentalCautionary.stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
  \once\override AccidentalCautionary.text = \markup {
\concat{\translate #'(0.0 . -0.7) [
\musicglyph #"accidentals.natural"
\translate #'(0.0 . -0.7) ]}
  }
}

\score {
  \new Staff {
c''4 c''? \brackNat c''? c''
  }
}

Thanks for any advice you can offer!
Ben

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Re: Photoscore

[Jacques Menu Muzhic]

Oups, totally forgot I had tested it two years ago, my fault.

> Le 22 nov. 2016 à 17:22, Jacques Menu Muzhic  a écrit :
> 
> I just downloaded the SmartScore X2 Pro demo for Mac, but it tells me that my 
> 60 day test period is over….
> 
>> Le 22 nov. 2016 à 14:21, SoundsFromSound  a écrit 
>> :
>> 
>> N. Andrew Walsh wrote
>>> Hi List,
>>> 
>>> I've unfortunately run up against a suddenly very urgent deadline, that
>>> involves all the worst things about doing engraving work with Lily while
>>> trying to work with entrenched commercial interests.
>>> 
>>> Namely, I've spent the last year engraving a set of scores with Lily that
>>> look great, but for a project that was financed by a large commercial
>>> publisher that is dead-set on Sibelius. The financing depends on the
>>> publisher getting a .sib file, and the project lead just told me yesterday
>>> that I need to produce such a file in a week or two "or else."
>>> 
>>> I don't have Sibelius (I roll linux), but my partner does, so Urs and I
>>> have a sort of hacky solution that might work: I start with a blank sib
>>> file with all the voices and measures and meter changes, and then the
>>> individual voices of the score from the .ly file. The .sib file gets
>>> exported to a MusicXML file, as do the parts from the .ly file, and we're
>>> going to try to copy the latter into the former, hoping that we can
>>> re-import into Sibelius into something that only requires a reasonable
>>> amount of work to clean up and submit.
>>> 
>>> Problem is, MusicXML is turning out to be somewhat … sub-functional, so
>>> we're having difficulties.
>>> 
>>> However, my partner tells me that there's a commercial program called
>>> "Photoscore" that can take scanned scores and produce Sibelius files from
>>> them. But it's around $400, and (obviously) doesn't have a linux version.
>>> 
>>> My question for the list is: do any of you have this program? Does it
>>> work?
>>> If so, would you be willing to help me by scanning in the Lilypond scores
>>> I
>>> have? If we could get to a .sib file that even just *mostly* contains what
>>> it needs to, without all this import/export buggery, it would save huge
>>> amounts of time.
>>> 
>>> Please let me know asap if any of you do. Like I said, I'm under a
>>> deadline
>>> to get this done, and the alternative is a lot of time spent commuting to
>>> a
>>> computer lab off-site to re-enter everything manually. I'm *really* hoping
>>> one of you can spare me that fate.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> A
>>> 
>>> ___
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>> 
>>> lilypond-user@
>> 
>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I've used Photoscore but I prefer SmartScore. It has been far superior in
>> every project I've ever used it in. Worth every penny personally. It really
>> is a great tool.
>> 
>> It depends on what your needs are, how often you use it, budget, etc.
>> https://www.musitek.com/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> composer | sound designer 
>> LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) --> http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond
>> --
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>> Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> 
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> 


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Re: Photoscore

[Jacques Menu Muzhic]

I just downloaded the SmartScore X2 Pro demo for Mac, but it tells me that my 
60 day test period is over….

> Le 22 nov. 2016 à 14:21, SoundsFromSound  a écrit :
> 
> N. Andrew Walsh wrote
>> Hi List,
>> 
>> I've unfortunately run up against a suddenly very urgent deadline, that
>> involves all the worst things about doing engraving work with Lily while
>> trying to work with entrenched commercial interests.
>> 
>> Namely, I've spent the last year engraving a set of scores with Lily that
>> look great, but for a project that was financed by a large commercial
>> publisher that is dead-set on Sibelius. The financing depends on the
>> publisher getting a .sib file, and the project lead just told me yesterday
>> that I need to produce such a file in a week or two "or else."
>> 
>> I don't have Sibelius (I roll linux), but my partner does, so Urs and I
>> have a sort of hacky solution that might work: I start with a blank sib
>> file with all the voices and measures and meter changes, and then the
>> individual voices of the score from the .ly file. The .sib file gets
>> exported to a MusicXML file, as do the parts from the .ly file, and we're
>> going to try to copy the latter into the former, hoping that we can
>> re-import into Sibelius into something that only requires a reasonable
>> amount of work to clean up and submit.
>> 
>> Problem is, MusicXML is turning out to be somewhat … sub-functional, so
>> we're having difficulties.
>> 
>> However, my partner tells me that there's a commercial program called
>> "Photoscore" that can take scanned scores and produce Sibelius files from
>> them. But it's around $400, and (obviously) doesn't have a linux version.
>> 
>> My question for the list is: do any of you have this program? Does it
>> work?
>> If so, would you be willing to help me by scanning in the Lilypond scores
>> I
>> have? If we could get to a .sib file that even just *mostly* contains what
>> it needs to, without all this import/export buggery, it would save huge
>> amounts of time.
>> 
>> Please let me know asap if any of you do. Like I said, I'm under a
>> deadline
>> to get this done, and the alternative is a lot of time spent commuting to
>> a
>> computer lab off-site to re-enter everything manually. I'm *really* hoping
>> one of you can spare me that fate.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> A
>> 
>> ___
>> lilypond-user mailing list
> 
>> lilypond-user@
> 
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've used Photoscore but I prefer SmartScore. It has been far superior in
> every project I've ever used it in. Worth every penny personally. It really
> is a great tool.
> 
> It depends on what your needs are, how often you use it, budget, etc.
> https://www.musitek.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> composer | sound designer 
> LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) --> http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Photoscore-tp196994p197003.html
> Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: Solution to 7 over sqr(71) time against integer polyrhythms

[Jacques Menu Muzhic]

Dear McLaren,

Using LilyPond is by no means mandatory : if you don’t like it or find it 
ill-designed and you don’t find what you need on the market, do start another 
open source project, or a commercial one, to do things in the way that you feel 
is the right one to fulfill your needs.

We’ll be happy to learn about it when it can be demoed. But the filter I’ll 
soon install not to get your aggressive messages might prevent me from getting 
informed, unfortunately.

I’m personally greatly indebted to the pioneers who built LilyPond in the first 
place and to many others who made it evolve to its current status. As a 
professional computer scientist, I have the highest appreciation of the quality 
of the source code, the documentation and the support we get from this list.

You don’t understand it seems that the world of LilyPond, just like the 
Internet itself, relies on best-effort.

Yours gracefully,

JM

> Le 22 nov. 2016 à 10:42, N. Andrew Walsh  a écrit :
> 
> Hi Andrew,
> 
> the most efficient way for you would be to set up a filter in gmail. Since 
> every communication seems to involve the OP's email address, you should be 
> able to set gmail to filter out based on that.
> 
> Go to the top message of this thread. Click the "More" dropdown and select 
> "filter messages like these." Enter maclaren's email address in the "has the 
> words" field. Select the checkbox to apply the filter to all the messages in 
> your inbox that already match, and see if it catches replies as well. Select 
> "move to trash" (or whatever the equivalent is) for the resultant action.
> 
> That should automatically catch and trash any messages to or from maclaren, 
> and you should thus never have to read them. If (for some reason) it doesn't 
> work, let us know.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Also,
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Andrew Bernard  > wrote:
> Dear listers,
> 
> Would somebody be able to help me with advice and guidance on how to filter
> out any correspondence from and about this person? I am unable to achieve
> this. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Sincerely
> Andrew
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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Re: \displayLilyMusic frescobaldi

[Gianmaria Lari]

> If you do this you can write to a file in the filesystem:
>
> {
>   \displayLilyMusic #(open-output-file "display.txt") { c'4\f }
> }
>

Oh! Very useful, thank you Andrew!!
g.
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Re: Openlilylib snippets announcement

[Urs Liska]

Am 22.11.2016 um 14:29 schrieb SoundsFromSound:
> Thanks Andrew!
>
> Quick question, what is the difference between this openlilylib page and the
> other http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Search website?
>
> Are these the same snippets overlapped or are they different content? I've
> only really known about and used the http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Search but
> openlilylib looks great! Love the layout and material.
>

openLilyLib is sort of a complement to the LSR, with some significant
differences.

1)
openLilyLib snippets (and packages) are designed to be includable. That
means once you have "installed" openLilyLib (by downloading/cloning and
adding it to LilyPond's include path) you can access the functionality
exposed in openLilyLib. Snippets from the LSR have to be copied and
pasted in your own files.

2)
OLL is managed as a Git repository on Github. This makes it easier to
contribute and update, which more or less was the motivation to start
with it.

##
In addition to the "snippets" repository there is a newer infrastructure
(but still more or less undocumented ...) that allows to create
"packages" of coherent functionality. As an example: Given the
respective packages are installed you can for example write

\include "scholarly/package.ily"
\loadModule scholarly.annotate

in your document and have commands available as e.g. \criticalRemark.
This package infrastructure also provides tools like option handling and
logging features.

Best
Urs


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Re: Openlilylib snippets announcement

[SoundsFromSound]

Andrew Bernard wrote
> Hello All,
> 
>  
> 
> Just letting you know that I have contributed some snippets to openlilylib
> worth having for doing some small things in contemporary style scores, but
> which need some Scheme coding.
> 
>  
> 
> Slashed beams
> 
>  
> 
> A function \slashBeam that can add a slash to the left or the right of a
> beamed group, with a fair degree of control over angle and position. This
> is
> a generalisation of work that others have created previously, in
> particular
> it extends the concept of \slash.
> 
>  
> 
> Slashed stems
> 
>  
> 
> The function \slashStem allows you to add a slash to a stem with a fair
> degree of control over position and angle. Note that this is a different
> case from slashing a beamed group. [There may be arguments against this
> but
> I wanted a separate function.] I developed this to make horizontal stem
> slashes, but it was easy to generalize.
> 
>  
> 
> Pedal decorations
> 
>  
> 
> People have often requested to be able to add cautionary labels to pedal
> brackets on continued lines. There have been many workarounds given. This
> solution in Scheme attacks the problem directly by modifying the bracket
> stencil. An arbitrary text label can be added, and optional continuation
> arrows can be added to the right hand end of the bracket. This style is
> commonly seen in contemporary scores.
> 
>  
> 
> These three new capabilities can be found under snippets/notation-snippets
> in the openlilylib repository.
> 
>  
> 
> If there do not exist bugs and defects I would be surprised. I am happy to
> take feedback and suggestions. The code is for the >= 2.19.45 releases. I
> have not tested on 2.18.2, and unless somebody requests, I don't intend
> to.
> 
>  
> 
> Andrew
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ___
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> lilypond-user@

> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Thanks Andrew!

Quick question, what is the difference between this openlilylib page and the
other http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Search website?

Are these the same snippets overlapped or are they different content? I've
only really known about and used the http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Search but
openlilylib looks great! Love the layout and material.





-
composer | sound designer 
LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) --> http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond
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Re: Photoscore

[SoundsFromSound]

N. Andrew Walsh wrote
> Hi List,
> 
> I've unfortunately run up against a suddenly very urgent deadline, that
> involves all the worst things about doing engraving work with Lily while
> trying to work with entrenched commercial interests.
> 
> Namely, I've spent the last year engraving a set of scores with Lily that
> look great, but for a project that was financed by a large commercial
> publisher that is dead-set on Sibelius. The financing depends on the
> publisher getting a .sib file, and the project lead just told me yesterday
> that I need to produce such a file in a week or two "or else."
> 
> I don't have Sibelius (I roll linux), but my partner does, so Urs and I
> have a sort of hacky solution that might work: I start with a blank sib
> file with all the voices and measures and meter changes, and then the
> individual voices of the score from the .ly file. The .sib file gets
> exported to a MusicXML file, as do the parts from the .ly file, and we're
> going to try to copy the latter into the former, hoping that we can
> re-import into Sibelius into something that only requires a reasonable
> amount of work to clean up and submit.
> 
> Problem is, MusicXML is turning out to be somewhat … sub-functional, so
> we're having difficulties.
> 
> However, my partner tells me that there's a commercial program called
> "Photoscore" that can take scanned scores and produce Sibelius files from
> them. But it's around $400, and (obviously) doesn't have a linux version.
> 
> My question for the list is: do any of you have this program? Does it
> work?
> If so, would you be willing to help me by scanning in the Lilypond scores
> I
> have? If we could get to a .sib file that even just *mostly* contains what
> it needs to, without all this import/export buggery, it would save huge
> amounts of time.
> 
> Please let me know asap if any of you do. Like I said, I'm under a
> deadline
> to get this done, and the alternative is a lot of time spent commuting to
> a
> computer lab off-site to re-enter everything manually. I'm *really* hoping
> one of you can spare me that fate.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> A
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list

> lilypond-user@

> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Hi,

I've used Photoscore but I prefer SmartScore. It has been far superior in
every project I've ever used it in. Worth every penny personally. It really
is a great tool.

It depends on what your needs are, how often you use it, budget, etc.
https://www.musitek.com/







-
composer | sound designer 
LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) --> http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond
--
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Re: Photoscore

[SoundsFromSound]

-
composer | sound designer 
LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) --> http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond
--
View this message in context: 
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Photoscore-tp196994p197002.html
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Re: Photoscore

[Phil Holmes]

I do have Sibelius 7, and I do have its lite PhotoScore and I do have a full 
version of SharpEye, which is similar to PhotoScore and exports XML.  I'd be 
happy to attempt to contribute by reading your PDFs into XML and thence to Sib 
if you want - depending on how many pages/scores, of course.

--
Phil Holmes


  - Original Message - 
  From: N. Andrew Walsh 
  To: lilypond-user 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 10:13 AM
  Subject: Photoscore


  Hi List,


  I've unfortunately run up against a suddenly very urgent deadline, that 
involves all the worst things about doing engraving work with Lily while trying 
to work with entrenched commercial interests.


  Namely, I've spent the last year engraving a set of scores with Lily that 
look great, but for a project that was financed by a large commercial publisher 
that is dead-set on Sibelius. The financing depends on the publisher getting a 
.sib file, and the project lead just told me yesterday that I need to produce 
such a file in a week or two "or else."


  I don't have Sibelius (I roll linux), but my partner does, so Urs and I have 
a sort of hacky solution that might work: I start with a blank sib file with 
all the voices and measures and meter changes, and then the individual voices 
of the score from the .ly file. The .sib file gets exported to a MusicXML file, 
as do the parts from the .ly file, and we're going to try to copy the latter 
into the former, hoping that we can re-import into Sibelius into something that 
only requires a reasonable amount of work to clean up and submit.


  Problem is, MusicXML is turning out to be somewhat … sub-functional, so we're 
having difficulties.


  However, my partner tells me that there's a commercial program called 
"Photoscore" that can take scanned scores and produce Sibelius files from them. 
But it's around $400, and (obviously) doesn't have a linux version.


  My question for the list is: do any of you have this program? Does it work? 
If so, would you be willing to help me by scanning in the Lilypond scores I 
have? If we could get to a .sib file that even just *mostly* contains what it 
needs to, without all this import/export buggery, it would save huge amounts of 
time.


  Please let me know asap if any of you do. Like I said, I'm under a deadline 
to get this done, and the alternative is a lot of time spent commuting to a 
computer lab off-site to re-enter everything manually. I'm *really* hoping one 
of you can spare me that fate.


  Cheers,


  A


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Re: Getting rid of extra space at the break of the line [time signature change]?

[kmg]

Thanks, that looks good. However, is there a way to enable it again if
needed? This trick is only needed in the beginning of the piece, not
throughout the whole score. If it can be only changed globally, then I'll
deal with the extra space I guess. Curious though if it's possible to do it
only once in selected staff. At any rate, thanks for help, I didn't know
that putting same stuff into \layout instead of part, makes magic ;)

Pozdrawiam,
Krzysztof Gutowski

2016-11-22 12:14 GMT+01:00 Andrew Bernard :

> Hi Krzystof,
>
>
>
> Is this what you require (based on the MWE you sent me personally)?
>
>
>
> If so, it’s a matter of putting things in the right logical structural
> place.
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> == snip
>
> \version "2.19.50"
>
> \language "deutsch"
>
>
>
>
>
> global = {
>
>   \key b \major
>
>   \numericTimeSignature
>
>   \time 3/4
>
> }
>
>
>
> trumpetBb = \relative c'' {
>
>   \transposition b
>
>   c4\f\<~ c8 g16 g c8 g |
>
>   c4\ff\<~ c8 g16 g c8 g | \break
>
>   c2.*2/20 \fff
>
> }
>
>
>
> up = \relative c'' {
>
>   \global
>
>   s1*3/4*2
>
>   \time 3/4
>
>   des,32
>
> }
>
>
>
> trumpetBbPart = \new Staff \with {
>
>   instrumentName = "Trumpet in Bb"
>
>   midiInstrument = "trumpet"
>
>   \magnifyStaff #3/4
>
> }
>
> \trumpetBb
>
>
>
> pianoPart = \new PianoStaff \with {
>
>   instrumentName = "Piano"
>
> } <<
>
>   \new Staff = "up" { \up }
>
> >>
>
>
>
> \score {
>
>   <<
>
> \trumpetBbPart
>
> \pianoPart
>
>   >>
>
>   \layout {
>
> \context {
>
>   \Staff
>
>   \RemoveEmptyStaves
>
>   \override TimeSignature.break-visibility = ##(#f #f #t)
>
> }
>
>
>
> \context {
>
>   \Score
>
>
>
>   \override VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t
>
>
>
> }
>
>   }
>
>   \midi { }
>
> }
>
> == snip
>
>
>
>
>
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RE: Getting rid of extra space at the break of the line [time signature change]?

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Krzystof,

 

Is this what you require (based on the MWE you sent me personally)?

 

If so, it’s a matter of putting things in the right logical structural place.

 

Andrew

 

 

 

== snip

\version "2.19.50"

\language "deutsch"

 

 

global = {

  \key b \major

  \numericTimeSignature

  \time 3/4

}

 

trumpetBb = \relative c'' {

  \transposition b

  c4\f\<~ c8 g16 g c8 g |

  c4\ff\<~ c8 g16 g c8 g | \break

  c2.*2/20 \fff

}

 

up = \relative c'' {

  \global

  s1*3/4*2

  \time 3/4

  des,32

}

 

trumpetBbPart = \new Staff \with {

  instrumentName = "Trumpet in Bb"

  midiInstrument = "trumpet"

  \magnifyStaff #3/4

}

\trumpetBb

 

pianoPart = \new PianoStaff \with {

  instrumentName = "Piano"

} <<

  \new Staff = "up" { \up }

>> 

 

\score {

  <<

\trumpetBbPart

\pianoPart

  >>

  \layout {

\context {

  \Staff

  \RemoveEmptyStaves

  \override TimeSignature.break-visibility = ##(#f #f #t)

}

 

\context {

  \Score

 

  \override VerticalAxisGroup.remove-first = ##t

 

}

  }

  \midi { }

}

== snip

 

 

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Re: [Spam] Photoscore

[Rutger Hofman]

Somewhat more affordable is PDFToMusic Pro. It takes a PDF with music 
fonts (so not scans) and exports to MusicXML; it ought to be more 
reliable than the OMR that recognizes scans. It runs under Wine (at 
least the trial did).


Rutger

On 11/22/2016 11:13 AM, N. Andrew Walsh wrote:

Hi List,

I've unfortunately run up against a suddenly very urgent deadline, that
involves all the worst things about doing engraving work with Lily while
trying to work with entrenched commercial interests.

Namely, I've spent the last year engraving a set of scores with Lily
that look great, but for a project that was financed by a large
commercial publisher that is dead-set on Sibelius. The financing depends
on the publisher getting a .sib file, and the project lead just told me
yesterday that I need to produce such a file in a week or two "or else."

I don't have Sibelius (I roll linux), but my partner does, so Urs and I
have a sort of hacky solution that might work: I start with a blank sib
file with all the voices and measures and meter changes, and then the
individual voices of the score from the .ly file. The .sib file gets
exported to a MusicXML file, as do the parts from the .ly file, and
we're going to try to copy the latter into the former, hoping that we
can re-import into Sibelius into something that only requires a
reasonable amount of work to clean up and submit.

Problem is, MusicXML is turning out to be somewhat … sub-functional, so
we're having difficulties.

However, my partner tells me that there's a commercial program called
"Photoscore" that can take scanned scores and produce Sibelius files
from them. But it's around $400, and (obviously) doesn't have a linux
version.

My question for the list is: do any of you have this program? Does it
work? If so, would you be willing to help me by scanning in the Lilypond
scores I have? If we could get to a .sib file that even just *mostly*
contains what it needs to, without all this import/export buggery, it
would save huge amounts of time.

Please let me know asap if any of you do. Like I said, I'm under a
deadline to get this done, and the alternative is a lot of time spent
commuting to a computer lab off-site to re-enter everything manually.
I'm *really* hoping one of you can spare me that fate.

Cheers,

A



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Re: Photoscore

[Robert Blackstone]

Hi Andrew,

This reply is not about Photoscore.
But there is maybe another "sort of hacky solution", which works for Finale and 
maybe also works in Sibelius. (I don't have Sibelius);

The midi-files I generate with LilyPond are opened, by default, in Finale and 
as a bonus one gets the complete but unadorned score in Finale. Just the notes. 
No lyrics, exporessive marks, ties yes but no slurs etc.  One other caveat: 
Finale does not recognize partial measures so you have to make a copy with only 
full measures.
Just a suggestion.

Best regards,
Robert Blackstone

On 22 Nov 2016, at 11:13 , N. Andrew Walsh  wrote:

> Hi List,
> 
> I've unfortunately run up against a suddenly very urgent deadline, that 
> involves all the worst things about doing engraving work with Lily while 
> trying to work with entrenched commercial interests.
> 
> Namely, I've spent the last year engraving a set of scores with Lily that 
> look great, but for a project that was financed by a large commercial 
> publisher that is dead-set on Sibelius. The financing depends on the 
> publisher getting a .sib file, and the project lead just told me yesterday 
> that I need to produce such a file in a week or two "or else."
> 
> I don't have Sibelius (I roll linux), but my partner does, so Urs and I have 
> a sort of hacky solution that might work: I start with a blank sib file with 
> all the voices and measures and meter changes, and then the individual voices 
> of the score from the .ly file. The .sib file gets exported to a MusicXML 
> file, as do the parts from the .ly file, and we're going to try to copy the 
> latter into the former, hoping that we can re-import into Sibelius into 
> something that only requires a reasonable amount of work to clean up and 
> submit.
> 
> Problem is, MusicXML is turning out to be somewhat … sub-functional, so we're 
> having difficulties.
> 
> However, my partner tells me that there's a commercial program called 
> "Photoscore" that can take scanned scores and produce Sibelius files from 
> them. But it's around $400, and (obviously) doesn't have a linux version.
> 
> My question for the list is: do any of you have this program? Does it work? 
> If so, would you be willing to help me by scanning in the Lilypond scores I 
> have? If we could get to a .sib file that even just *mostly* contains what it 
> needs to, without all this import/export buggery, it would save huge amounts 
> of time.
> 
> Please let me know asap if any of you do. Like I said, I'm under a deadline 
> to get this done, and the alternative is a lot of time spent commuting to a 
> computer lab off-site to re-enter everything manually. I'm *really* hoping 
> one of you can spare me that fate.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> A
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Re: Photoscore

[N. Andrew Walsh]

Hi Andrew,

Sibelius includes the "lite" version, which doesn't read note-values
smaller than a 16th (see the features page). I would need someone with the
full version.

Cheers,

A

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Andrew Bernard 
wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>
>
>
> Not a Sibelius user myself, but isn’t Photoscore included in Sibelius? If
> you have to use that program to do the job, then would it not have
> Photoscore already?
>
>
>
> http://www.sibelius.com/products/photoscore/lite.html
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
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RE: Photoscore

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Andrew,

 

Not a Sibelius user myself, but isn’t Photoscore included in Sibelius? If you 
have to use that program to do the job, then would it not have Photoscore 
already?

 

http://www.sibelius.com/products/photoscore/lite.html

 

Andrew

 

 

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Photoscore

[N. Andrew Walsh]

Hi List,

I've unfortunately run up against a suddenly very urgent deadline, that
involves all the worst things about doing engraving work with Lily while
trying to work with entrenched commercial interests.

Namely, I've spent the last year engraving a set of scores with Lily that
look great, but for a project that was financed by a large commercial
publisher that is dead-set on Sibelius. The financing depends on the
publisher getting a .sib file, and the project lead just told me yesterday
that I need to produce such a file in a week or two "or else."

I don't have Sibelius (I roll linux), but my partner does, so Urs and I
have a sort of hacky solution that might work: I start with a blank sib
file with all the voices and measures and meter changes, and then the
individual voices of the score from the .ly file. The .sib file gets
exported to a MusicXML file, as do the parts from the .ly file, and we're
going to try to copy the latter into the former, hoping that we can
re-import into Sibelius into something that only requires a reasonable
amount of work to clean up and submit.

Problem is, MusicXML is turning out to be somewhat … sub-functional, so
we're having difficulties.

However, my partner tells me that there's a commercial program called
"Photoscore" that can take scanned scores and produce Sibelius files from
them. But it's around $400, and (obviously) doesn't have a linux version.

My question for the list is: do any of you have this program? Does it work?
If so, would you be willing to help me by scanning in the Lilypond scores I
have? If we could get to a .sib file that even just *mostly* contains what
it needs to, without all this import/export buggery, it would save huge
amounts of time.

Please let me know asap if any of you do. Like I said, I'm under a deadline
to get this done, and the alternative is a lot of time spent commuting to a
computer lab off-site to re-enter everything manually. I'm *really* hoping
one of you can spare me that fate.

Cheers,

A
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Getting rid of extra space at the break of the line [time signature change]?

[kmg]

What is going on guys,

Thanks for your recent help, now I'm digging LilyPond more and more, but
after searching in the manuals/snippets, I couldn't find how to fix this:

http://i.imgur.com/L5YCxnv.png

In this case time signature is stated in the beginning, when instrument
starts solo. Then I manually re-introduce it again when piano starts it's
part, so it doesn't start without signature (as previous bars of the piano
are empty and hidden). Is there any way to shift the barline before the
break, so it appears as normal (since time signature is invisible anyway)?
I tried to change X-extent/padding of a grob, but it could only increase
this space or not change it, even when I used negative values. Here's my
code for this time signature change, just in case:

\version "2.19.50"
...
\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.break-visibility = ##(#f #f #t)
  \time 3/4
  c2.*2/20 \fff |

Thanks for assistance :)


Pozdrawiam,
Krzysztof Gutowski
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Openlilylib snippets announcement

[Andrew Bernard]

Hello All,

 

Just letting you know that I have contributed some snippets to openlilylib
worth having for doing some small things in contemporary style scores, but
which need some Scheme coding.

 

Slashed beams

 

A function \slashBeam that can add a slash to the left or the right of a
beamed group, with a fair degree of control over angle and position. This is
a generalisation of work that others have created previously, in particular
it extends the concept of \slash.

 

Slashed stems

 

The function \slashStem allows you to add a slash to a stem with a fair
degree of control over position and angle. Note that this is a different
case from slashing a beamed group. [There may be arguments against this but
I wanted a separate function.] I developed this to make horizontal stem
slashes, but it was easy to generalize.

 

Pedal decorations

 

People have often requested to be able to add cautionary labels to pedal
brackets on continued lines. There have been many workarounds given. This
solution in Scheme attacks the problem directly by modifying the bracket
stencil. An arbitrary text label can be added, and optional continuation
arrows can be added to the right hand end of the bracket. This style is
commonly seen in contemporary scores.

 

These three new capabilities can be found under snippets/notation-snippets
in the openlilylib repository.

 

If there do not exist bugs and defects I would be surprised. I am happy to
take feedback and suggestions. The code is for the >= 2.19.45 releases. I
have not tested on 2.18.2, and unless somebody requests, I don't intend to.

 

Andrew

 

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Re: Solution to 7 over sqr(71) time against integer polyrhythms

[N. Andrew Walsh]

Hi Andrew,

the most efficient way for you would be to set up a filter in gmail. Since
every communication seems to involve the OP's email address, you should be
able to set gmail to filter out based on that.

Go to the top message of this thread. Click the "More" dropdown and select
"filter messages like these." Enter maclaren's email address in the "has
the words" field. Select the checkbox to apply the filter to all the
messages in your inbox that already match, and see if it catches replies as
well. Select "move to trash" (or whatever the equivalent is) for the
resultant action.

That should automatically catch and trash any messages to or from maclaren,
and you should thus never have to read them. If (for some reason) it
doesn't work, let us know.

Cheers.

Also,

Andrew

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Andrew Bernard 
wrote:

> Dear listers,
>
> Would somebody be able to help me with advice and guidance on how to filter
> out any correspondence from and about this person? I am unable to achieve
> this. Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Sincerely
> Andrew
>
>
>
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RE: Solution to 7 over sqr(71) time against integer polyrhythms

[Andrew Bernard]

Dear listers,

Would somebody be able to help me with advice and guidance on how to filter
out any correspondence from and about this person? I am unable to achieve
this. Any help would be appreciated.

Sincerely
Andrew



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Re: Solution to 7 over sqr(71) time against integer polyrhythms

[David Kastrup]

Urs Liska  writes:

> Am 22.11.2016 um 08:26 schrieb mclaren:
>>  If that's really the philosophy behind
>> Lilypond, this forum should shut down right now and post the following
>> message:
>>
>> IF YOU ENCOUNTER ANY PROBLEM OR CRASH OR PROGRAM HANG WITH LILYPOND, FIX IT
>> YOURSELF. DON'T BEAT YOUR CHEST COMPLAINING, JUST DO IT YOURSELF.
>>
>> Somehow I don't see that message being sent.  
>
> Well said.
>
>> Instead, there's a recognition
>> that Lilypond is a piece of code that may have limitations. And those
>> limitations may affect real musicians in the real world. So you've got a
>> community of people who will try to help out when someone encounters a
>> problem.
> well, that's true - if you extend the last sentence with "..., reports
> it in an appropriate manner and helps with what is necessary to pin down
> the issue."
> Which is exactly *not* what you've done.

The technical details and examples are not significantly worse than what
others have reported and gotten help for (possibly after improving their
requests/reports based on the initial feedback).

It really boils down to behaving like a mature adult among peers.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Solution to 7 over sqr(71) time against integer polyrhythms

[David Kastrup]

mclaren  writes:

> David Kastrup went on to aver: "LilyPond needs to know whether two events
> line up in time (only then are they aligned or have a common stem, and only
> the first such event gets an accidental and so on).  Once arithmetic does no
> longer guarantee 
>
> 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1 
>
> it becomes impossible to reliably synchronize matters."
>
> This is just not correct. It's not even close to being correct. In
> fact, it's so far off from the reality that it's baffling that David
> Kastrup would make this claim.

Hey, we are making progress.  You are _baffled_ by someone being so much
more stupid than yourself.  Previously you'd have taken it for granted.
It doesn't make you reread what has baffled you, though.

> Lilypond only needs to know whether two events line up in time for MIDI
> output to the nearest (time signature / 960 parts per quarternote).

LilyPond is primarily a music typesetter, not a Midi generator (what do
you think "only then are they aligned or have a common stem, and only
the first such event gets an accidental and so on" even means in the
context of Midi?).

And even if it were solely a Midi generator, the only reliable guarantee
for two events to line up after Midi quantization is to line up already
before Midi quantization.

[...]

> This means that Lilypond only needs to know or care whether events
> line up to within about 1 millisecond in time for MIDI purposes.

Feel free to generate a version of LilyPond that only processes Midi and
change its arithmetic as you like it.  It will be very interesting to
see how you manage fitting stuff into Midi quantization when calculating
in Midi ticks: For example, pentoles do not fit _any_ Midi quantization,
so if you add 5 pentoles of equal Midi-quantized length that _should_
add up to a proper number of Midi ticks, you'll end up off by one or two
Midi ticks (the quantization error per pentole will be a multiple of 1/5
or 2/5 Midi ticks).

So even in Midi ticks you'll not get things to add up.

> Calculating Lilypond sychronization to any finer value for the
> pursposes of MIDI is utterly pointless.
>
> For engraved output, a reasonable visual maximum resolution would be
> tabloid output = 11 x 17 inches with 1200 dpi.

Look, you have forgotten to reread what you were baffled about.  Visual
resolution is not the problem LilyPond solves but rather that of having
things add up and consequently being able to determine the proper
sequence of things and simultaneousness.

[Lots of rants completely missing the point removed]

> So it's perfectly clear from the 150-year-plus history of
> psychoacoustics and cognitive psychology that what David Kastrup is
> claiming cannot possibly be true. In reality, there's lots of slop and
> error and the human ear/brain system's perception of musical timing,
> just as there is lots of slop and error in the human eye-brain
> system's perception of color, and so on.

This is irrelevant to the problems LilyPond's timing machinery is
solving.

It's particularly funny to hear you rant about the physical limitations
of performers while at the same time ranting about LilyPond's inability
to deal with fractions which have denominators of billions when in
shortest terms.

Either you want LilyPond to deal with music at such precision reliably
or not.  It's a valid though somewhat rare request, but when you then
rant that LilyPond does not to the job sloppily when its capacities are
not currently up to doing it with the precision you want to convey to
the musicians is just silly.

> None of this matters as long as we get close enough for perceptual
> purposes.

So why do you write stuff like that then?

> Kastrup then asserts: 
> "If you want something done, do it.  You are of the opinion that you can do
> better than those who worked so far on LilyPond, do it.  Don't beat your
> chest, do it."
>
> Now we've got a contradiction.  This entire forum exists presumably
> because the attitude of the Lilypond designers was NOT that anyone who
> had a problem with Lilypond crashing or hanging should just go off
> somewhere and hack the millions of lines of source code.

It is for people making the best use of LilyPond by sharing experience
and code pieces (an advantage over purely graphical programs) among a
community of interested users which tend to include some developers.

It is not there for shouting at people and throwing tantrums until
somebody gives you what you wanted to have.

LilyPond is a project that, for better or worse, is done by people
volunteering their time (and partly even money) for a project they
enjoy.  The way to get anything done is to do it yourself or make it
enjoyable enough for others to do it that they will help.

Your communication style is completely unsuitable for that purpose.
Your best investment in terms of getting the job done would likely be to
hire somebody for doing your communication.

Because frankly: hiring a programmer for doing the 

Re: Solution to 7 over sqr(71) time against integer polyrhythms

[Urs Liska]

Am 22.11.2016 um 08:26 schrieb mclaren:
>  If that's really the philosophy behind
> Lilypond, this forum should shut down right now and post the following
> message:
>
> IF YOU ENCOUNTER ANY PROBLEM OR CRASH OR PROGRAM HANG WITH LILYPOND, FIX IT
> YOURSELF. DON'T BEAT YOUR CHEST COMPLAINING, JUST DO IT YOURSELF.
>
> Somehow I don't see that message being sent.  

Well said.

> Instead, there's a recognition
> that Lilypond is a piece of code that may have limitations. And those
> limitations may affect real musicians in the real world. So you've got a
> community of people who will try to help out when someone encounters a
> problem.
well, that's true - if you extend the last sentence with "..., reports
it in an appropriate manner and helps with what is necessary to pin down
the issue."
Which is exactly *not* what you've done.

If you'd do a poll you'd realize that an overwhelming majority of users
pointing out (assumed) issues have been welcomed and helped out, either
by fixing their input errors or by having the found issue added to the
tracker (if they have then be solved is a matter of the complexity of
the problem and the available resources).
The problem with *your* issues is that you a) didn't report them in a
manner that is even close to appropriate and b) that you didn't help
tracking them down. For example, I've pointed out that many of the files
you sent were simply faulty. When the input has metric errors you can't
judge LilyPond's behaviour with regard to meter and breaks. Instead of
fixing the error and coming back you went on with other files.

If you look closely you should notice that behind your back - and
*despite* your outrageous behaviour - our developers have discussed the
underlying matters.
That said, I can imagine that if you'd step back, push the "reset"
button and come back presenting your problems in a decent way and
properly collaborate you would be heard. No guarantee that the issues
would be solved, though.

Urs

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