Re: Cry for help - lost plot ....

[Paul Hodges]

If you make your lines sequential music in one score (by adding {...} around 
them, as a score can contain only one music expression) they'll all run 
together continuously.  You can add \break to force new lines, but then they 
are stretched to the width of the page.  You can then add ragged-right = ##t, 
but you will still have an indent for the first (which can be set to zero); you 
will also have the time signature repeated at the end of each line - which I'm 
sure can be turned off, though I can't recall the details.


It seems you'd be better off putting a \score block round each line, if you 
want each line to remain independent.


Paul



 From:   Aaron Hill  
 To:   Giles Boardman  
 Cc:
 Sent:   18/05/2024 17:18 
 Subject:   Re: Cry for help - lost plot  

On 2024-05-18 8:49 am, Giles Boardman wrote: 
> \score { 
>  
> … music … 
>  
>   \layout { } 
>   \midi { } 
> } 
>  
> Please, someone help me while I still have a little hair left to pull  
> out on a later occasion :-} 
 
 
\score basically expects just one "music".  You are providing many  
"musics".  The question is how you want to handle it. 
 
Normally, we have simultaneous music where the parts are meant to run in  
parallel.  But you can also do sequential music. 
 
So, this means your \score block should have one of these two patterns: 
 
 
\score { 
   << 
     ...simultaneous music... 
   >> 
 
   \layout { } 
   \midi { } 
} 
 
\score { 
   { 
     ...sequential music... 
   } 
 
   \layout { } 
   \midi { } 
} 
 
 
 
-- Aaron Hill 
 

Re: Segno and Coda from LilyJazz in a DrumStaff

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Sebastien Richard  



 
 I usually stick to the official release but I don't mind trying beta releases. 
I'll try that ASAP



 
Bear in mind that you can install multiple versions of LilyPond without 
conflict.


Paul

Re: Hold a note the length of a cadenza

[Paul Hodges]

The way I'd do it is to force the length of the held note to match that of the 
sung cadenza by multiplication.  For instance if there is a semibreve c being 
held while the cadenza part adds up to 7 crotchets, I'd write it as c1*7/4.  
But you could just write it normally and pad it out with skips (s2. in this 
instance) I guess.


Paul



 From:   John Burt  
 To:   lilypond-user  
 Sent:   26/12/2023 20:21 
 Subject:   Hold a note the length of a cadenza 



Dear list,While one part is singing a cadenza another part is holding a long 
note. I know how to make a rest or a skip the length of a cadenza bu not how to 
make a held note the length of the cadenza.
thanks
John Burt 

Re: Tuplet bracket padding at system ending

[Paul Hodges]

I had a lot of trouble with this a while ago (using 2.23.3), and was quite 
vocal about it.  I believe the default behaviour has changed recently, so it's 
well worth checking the current beta.


Paul



 From:   Gregory Evans  
 To:   Lilypond-User Mailing List  
 Sent:   24/12/2023 14:03 
 Subject:   Tuplet bracket padding at system ending 


Hello,
I need some help constructing a function. Lilypond seems to be relatively 
consistently applying less right padding to tuplet brackets at the end of a 
system. This causes tuplets in voices below the top of a score to collide with 
the barline at the end of every system. I have attached an image highlighting 
this:




The solution which I have found useful is to set a shorten-pair value to '(0 . 
0.7) only for these system ending tuplets: \once \override 
TupletBracket.shorten-pair = #'(0 . 0.7) . How can I write a function such that 
this override applies automatically only at the end of a system? I am currently 
using 2.23.81 (old, I know). 



thank you,
gregory evans-- 




gregory rowland evans


http://www.gregoryrowlandevans.com

https://github.com/GregoryREvans

https://soundcloud.com/gregory-rowland-evans 

Re: Unexpected bar boundaries with volta repeats and lyrics.

[Paul Hodges]

Here's my (rather tedious) suggestion for a workaround: so that the alternative 
starts with a note, not a rest, provide a note and hide it, then patch the rest 
in using another voice; the lyrics need a skip to avoid the dummy note.  It 
works (see below).



Paul


%



\version "2.25.10" 


music = \relative { 
   \time 4/4 
   \repeat volta 2 { 
      d'1 | 
      \alternative { 
         { d1 | } 
         { | << { \hideNotes d4 \unHideNotes } \new Voice { b'4\rest } >> d,2 
d4 | d1 } 
      } 
   } 
   \bar "|." 
} 


words = \lyricmode { 
   \repeat volta 2 { 
      a 
      \alternative { 
         { b } 
         { \skip1 c d e } 
      } 
   } 
} 


\score { 
   \new Staff << 
      \new Voice \music 
      \addlyrics \words 
   >> 
}


%%%



 From:   Kevin Pye  
 To:   Michael Werner  
 Cc:   Lilypond User  
 Sent:   09/12/2023 21:14 
 Subject:   Re: Unexpected bar boundaries with volta repeats and lyrics. 



Thank you,



Unfortunately, in this case (the real score from which the example was 
extracted) I need the words to be repeated so I can unfold them for midi 
output. I'll just have to do the unfold manually.



Kevin.



On Sat, 9 Dec 2023, at 23:45, Michael Werner wrote:


Hi Kevin,




On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 11:31 PM Kevin Pye  wrote:





What silly mistake am I making here?



Not all that silly. Though the docs do talk about putting lyrics into the same 
repeat structure as the music, there's one detail in 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.25/Documentation/notation/lyrics-and-repeats that 
you may have missed:



"... when one of the \alternative blocks starts with a rest, a repeat construct 
cannot be used around the words"



Change the lyrics block to just



words = \lyricmode {


    a b c d e 

}



and it should behave itself a bit better for you.

--




Michael

Re: Centering a word before a gap in the lyrics

[Paul Hodges]

I don't know where in the documentation the difference in behaviour between 
\skip1 and "" as opposed to _ is explained.  But the opportunity is missed on 
these pages, the first of which actually conflates the "" and _ notation:


https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.25/Documentation/snippets/rhythms_003a-skips-in-lyric-mode-_00282_0029
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.25/Documentation/snippets/rhythms_003a-skips-in-lyric-mode


Paul

Re: Centering a word before a gap in the lyrics

[Paul Hodges]

Sure. Just use a skip. Like so:

And now I discover that "" will do the same - which makes it doubly curious 
that " " does not.  "" is a lot more elegant than \skip1 as well!



 


Paul

Re: Centering a word before a gap in the lyrics

[Paul Hodges]

I should have tried that again; but I've tried it in the past and it hasn't 
seemed to work.  There must be some other subtlety involved; scores converted 
from Music XML use \skip1 for melismas...  I guess I haven't fully internalised 
the various options for lyric placement.


Thanks,
Paul




 From:   Michael Werner  
 To:   Paul Hodges  
 Cc:
 Sent:   04/12/2023 9:10 
 Subject:   Re: Centering a word before a gap in the lyrics 



Hi Paul, 


On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 3:52 AM Paul Hodges  wrote:


In the middle lyric, the first word is justified because the following skip (_ 
in this case) defines a melisma.  But I actually simply want there to be no 
immediately following word - this arises with multiple verses and alternatives 
in the repeat structure, for example.  I thought a quoted space would count as 
a word, but no...



In the end I have done it above by a rather unnatural circumlocution, but is 
there a more natural solution which I've missed?


Sure. Just use a skip. Like so:



 

Centering a word before a gap in the lyrics

[Paul Hodges]

Consider the following:


%%%
\version "2.25.10"
wordsA = \lyricmode { centred centred centred }
wordsB = \lyricmode { justified _ centred } 
wordsC = \lyricmode { justified " " centred } 
wordsC = \lyricmode { centred \once \override Lyrics.LyricText.color = #white 
"." centred } 
\score {
  \new Staff <<
    \new Voice = "vvv" { r2 c'2 g'2 c''2 }
    \new Lyrics \lyricsto "vvv" \wordsA
    \new Lyrics \lyricsto "vvv" \wordsB
    \new Lyrics \lyricsto "vvv" \wordsC
    \new Lyrics \lyricsto "vvv" \wordsD
  >>
%%%


In the middle lyric, the first word is justified because the following skip (_ 
in this case) defines a melisma.  But I actually simply want there to be no 
immediately following word - this arises with multiple verses and alternatives 
in the repeat structure, for example.  I thought a quoted space would count as 
a word, but no...


In the end I have done it above by a rather unnatural circumlocution, but is 
there a more natural solution which I've missed?


Paul

Re: Aligning verse text?

[Paul Hodges]

I would put hidden notes there to link the lyrics to, and place the rests in a 
parallel voice, like this:


%%



\version "2.24.3"


musicOne = {
  \key f \major
  \time 2/1
  e'4. e'8 e'4 e' e'2 e'4
  <<
    { \hideNotes g'4 | g'4 g'4 g'4 r4 \unHideNotes }
    \new Voice { b'4\rest | \break b'1\rest }
  >>
  g'4 fis' g' r
  r1 e'4 e' e' r 
}


verseOne  = \lyricmode {
  x -- xx xx -- xx -- xx -- xx
  ooo -- oo o -- ooo -- uu -- u -- uu
}


\score {
  <<
    \new Voice = "one" {
      \musicOne
    }
    \new Lyrics \lyricsto "one" {
      \verseOne
    }
  >>
}
 
%


Note that the parallel construction is not << \\ >> because that creates two 
new voices; the voice with the hidden notes needs to be the same so that the 
lyrics link to it.


Paul


 From:
 To:
 Sent:   21/11/2023 13:52 
 Subject:   Aligning verse text? 


‌How to place (ooo -- oo o -- ooo --) verse to first (r1) rest and (uu -- u -- 
uu) to (g'4 fis' g')? 
 
 \version "2.24.3"
 
 musicOne = {
   \key f \major
   \time 2/1
   e'4. e'8 e'4 e' e'2 e'4 r | \break
   r1 g'4 fis' g' r
   r1 e'4 e' e' r 
 }
 
 verseOne  = \lyricmode {
   x -- xx xx -- xx -- xx -- xx
   ooo -- oo o -- ooo -- uu -- u -- uu
 }
 
 \score {
   <<
     \new Voice = "one" {
       \musicOne
     }
     \new Lyrics \lyricsto "one" {
       \verseOne
     }
   >>
 } 
  

Re: Relative rhythms across bars for time changes?

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Kieren MacMillan  

There may be a way to do it with a MetronomeMark — I just don’t know it. I was 
surprised to find that I couldn’t make the following (or similar) work:


When I was asked to place the = in a rhythm change over the start of a staff 
(i.e. sticking out to the left), I used a MetronomeMark like this:



  \once\override Score.MetronomeMark.break-align-symbols = #'(left-edge 
staff-bar) 
  \once\override Score.MetronomeMark.self-alignment-X = ##f 
  \tempo \markup { \centered-on-middle #0.5 
                                       \line { "←" \smaller \note-by-number #2 
#0 #0.8 } 
                                       "=" 
                                       \line { \smaller \note-by-number #2 #1 
#0.8 "→" } 
                 } 


I may have got the idea from this post:
  https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html//lilypond-user/2018-01/msg00214.html
but I'm not sure.


But in the same score, to centre the = over a mid-staff bar line I just used a 
markup on an adjacent note tweaking the alignment by adding spaces at one end...


Paul

Re: change staff-staff-spacing in a single score?

[Paul Hodges]

Assuming your sections are all (or nearly all) less than half a page, you could 
halve the paper requirement by typesetting onto landscape A5 (or whatever is 
half the size of your output paper) and print from Acrobat (or whatever) two-up 
on each page.

Paul


 From:   David Zelinsky  
 To:
 Sent:   07/11/2023 5:55 
 Subject:   change staff-staff-spacing in a single score? 

Is there a way to change the spacing between staves (single-staff 
systems) in one score, in a document with multiple scores, without 
introducing a page break?  The only way I've found in the manual to 
change the spacing of systems (as opposed to staves within a system) is 
in a \paper block, and the lowest level that can occur is in a 
\bookpart, which introduces a page break which I don't want.  I could 
use NonMusicalPaperColumn.line-break-system-details, but that seems to 
only apply to one line, so I would need to set it separately for each 
line in the score, which is a nuisance. 
 
To explain better what I need, I am re-engraving some short sections 
from an orchestra part, to faithfully match the lines in the original 
but with some particular rhythmic changes that the conductor wants.  I 
will print these out and cut and paste them over the original (using 
removable/restickable adhesive), so I want everything to match the 
original as closely as possible.  The sections range from 1 to 5 lines 
each. 
 
Currently I am using a separate \score for each short section, which 
seems to make it easier to maintain control over the line breaks.  But 
I'm trying to fit as many on of these short scores on page as I 
reasonably can, to save trees.  I've set the staff size and 
staff-staff-spacing globally to match the average in the original pretty 
well, but of course the spacing varies some from page to page, so some 
of the sections need adjustment.  I could introduce a new \bookpart and 
\paper block for those sections, but I'd rather not have those extra 
page breaks. 
 
Is there a better way to do this? 
 
-David 
 

Re: Tuplet brackets too short?

[Paul Hodges]

I have used tupletFullLength extensively, and it mostly does what I need 
correctly.  However, the illustration here shows the remaining issue with it - 
which is specific to line breaks.  Within a line, the RH end of the bracket is 
correctly placed just before the bar line, but at a break it is placed on it as 
in this example.


I've also got a patch by Harm in there which extends the bracket over the 
noteheads - as that was written for release 2.23.3, I don't know if it's been 
added to the main codebase (the example here suggests not, unless it's a new 
parameter).



Paul



 From:   Werner LEMBERG  
 To:
 Cc:
 Sent:   20/10/2023 6:33 
 Subject:   Re: Tuplet brackets too short? 

 
> Shouldn't both tuplet brackets span every notecolumn within the 
> purview of the last note's duration? 
 
Yes, at least according to Gould.  Using `tupletFullLength` helps, but 
now tuplet brackets are too long: 
 
``` 
\new Staff 
{ \set Staff.tupletFullLength = ##t 
  \time 2/4 
  << \tuplet 3/2 { c''4 d'' c'' } \\ \tuplet 3/2 { g'4 a'2 } >> 
} 
``` 
 
It looks like a tricky problem, and it seems not to be covered in the 
tracker, so please file an issue. 
 
 
    Werner 

Re: Barlines

[Paul Hodges]

Omit the \bar "||" and change the \bar ".|:  to \bar ".|:-||"



Paul


 From:
 To:
 Sent:   15/10/2023 20:07 
 Subject:   Barlines 





 I have a problem in the above snippet. In bar 7 there is a change of key and 
this should be seen at the end of bar 6 ( as in bar 20 ) with 
 a double barline before the new key signature. The double barline 
however is missing.
 Lines 1-3 are repeated in lines 4-6 but here I have commented out the command 
\bar ".|:" in bar 21 in order to visualise 
  the double barline at the end of bar 20. This fix, however, 
causes the repeat barline at the beginning of bar 21 to disappear.
 
Can you explain to me how I should code this snippet to keep both the double 
and repeat barlines.
 
John McWilliam

Re: Octave control.

[Paul Hodges]

The intervals in the image are all going to the nearest option.  You need to 
mark some of your notes with ' in order (I presume) to convert some of the 
downward fourths into upward fifths.


Paul



 From:
 To:
 Sent:   15/10/2023 19:47 
 Subject:   Octave control. 




For the initiated this is a simple question but I have Been away from Lilypond 
for some time. Now when I compile a simple piece of music the control of note 
range seems to have disappeared. And I get increasing or decreasing octaves – 
see example. Previously the program remembered where the last note was and 
chose to keep within a range of 5 positions on the stave – otherwise I had to 
specify going outwith this range using a comma or ‘ .  Can you explain?I cannot 
remember how to save my music in PDF format. Previously saving the .ly file 
also saved a PDF copy.
 
All very elementary questions but I hope someone has time to answer.
 
P.S. On the plus side I am very happy to se that the export and import of XML 
music files works much better now.

Re: Dynamics placement in partCombine

[Paul Hodges]

I presume that partCombine overrides the dynamic placement so that dynamics for 
the two parts are placed above and below, which seems a reasonable approach 
when the parts are more distinct than in the given example.  Using ^ to 
override it in this case seems a tolerable alternative.


Paul



 From:   Michael Gerdau  
 To:   lilypond-user  
 Sent:   13/10/2023 11:30 
 Subject:   Dynamics placement in partCombine 

Hi list, 
 
the following code places the 2nd \p under the music but I'd like it  
above. I know I could explicitly add a placement (like ^\p) but wonder  
why \dynamicUp doesn't do its job. 
 
- snip - snip - snip - snip - snip - snip - snip - 
\version "2.25.9" 
 
musa = { \dynamicUp c'4\p \repeat unfold 3 { c' } c'4\p \repeat unfold 3  
{ c' } } 
musb = { \dynamicUp s1 c'4\p \repeat unfold 3 { c' } } 
\score { 
   \partCombine \musa \musb 
} 
- snip - snip - snip - snip - snip - snip - snip - 
 
Kind regards, 
Michael 
--  
  Michael Gerdau       email: m...@qata.de 
  GPG-keys available on request or at public keyserver

Re: How to end a trill with an acciaccatura in the same measure

[Paul Hodges]

And you have taught me something in return!  I didn't know about the 
afterGraceFraction - which easily deals with my complaint about the spacing, 
which I was about to bring up on the list - you have saved me the 
embarrassment...


Thanks,
Paul 



 From:   Volodymyr Prokopyuk  
 To:   Paul Hodges  
 Cc:   lilypond-user  
 Sent:   12/10/2023 17:11 
 Subject:   Re: How to end a trill with an acciaccatura in the same measure 



Hi Paul,


Nice and clean solution! After some tweaks I've got what I wanted with the 
following code


\afterGrace 15/16 d''1\( \trill { c16( d } | e2)\)







Thank you very much,
Vlad



On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 4:09 PM Paul Hodges  wrote:

The way I'd do it is:


{ \afterGrace d''1\trill( { c''16_\( d'' } e''2)\) } 


Paul



 From:   Volodymyr Prokopyuk  
 To:   lilypond-user  
 Sent:   12/10/2023 14:58 
 Subject:   How to end a trill with an acciaccatura in the same measure 



Hi,


I'd like to achieve the below




With the following code
  <<
    \new Voice = voiceOne \relative {
      \voiceOne
      d''1( \trill | \stemDown e2)
    }
    \new Voice = voiceTwo \relative {
      \voiceTwo
      s2 s4. \acciaccatura { c''16 d } | s2
    }
  >>

I was able to get the following





What is the recommended approach to finish a trill with two acciaccatura notes 
with stems up and slurred to the next note?


Thank you in advance,
Vlad
 

Re: How to end a trill with an acciaccatura in the same measure

[Paul Hodges]

The way I'd do it is:


{ \afterGrace d''1\trill( { c''16_\( d'' } e''2)\) } 


Paul



 From:   Volodymyr Prokopyuk  
 To:   lilypond-user  
 Sent:   12/10/2023 14:58 
 Subject:   How to end a trill with an acciaccatura in the same measure 



Hi,


I'd like to achieve the below




With the following code
  <<
    \new Voice = voiceOne \relative {
      \voiceOne
      d''1( \trill | \stemDown e2)
    }
    \new Voice = voiceTwo \relative {
      \voiceTwo
      s2 s4. \acciaccatura { c''16 d } | s2
    }
  >>

I was able to get the following





What is the recommended approach to finish a trill with two acciaccatura notes 
with stems up and slurred to the next note?


Thank you in advance,
Vlad
 

Re: The problem of acciaccatura from the beginning of the work.

[Paul Hodges]

The oldest bug of all, I believe!


Just put hidden ("s") appoggiaturas in the other parts and then everything will 
line up.


Paul



 From:   Виноградов Юрий  
 To:   "lilypond-user@gnu.org"  
 Sent:   10/10/2023 19:16 
 Subject:   The problem of acciaccatura from the beginning of the work. 



Hello. Please help me to remove this collision at the beginning of the piece. 
So that everything starts smoothly.
 
 
С уважением,
Виноградов Юрий.
 

Re: 2.22.2 and 2.24.2

[Paul Hodges]

The easy way to get what you need (at least using the Windows built-in Zip 
handler) using Windows conventions is to double-click it to see the contents 
(the logic is that it's the same as opening a folder - it just happens to be a 
zipped one), and then drag the internal folder to where you want (or 
right-click "Copy"  |  "Paste"), which quietly performs the necessary unzipping.


Paul



 From:   Jean Abou Samra  
 To:   Robin Bannister , Mark Stephen Mrotek 
, 'Paul Hodges'  
 Cc:
 Sent:   09/09/2023 20:07 
 Subject:   Re: 2.22.2 and 2.24.2 



Le samedi 09 septembre 2023 à 18:16 +0200, Robin Bannister a écrit :
On my win7:
  - I download the zip for 2.23.80 and put it in folder test_

  - Looking in this folder, I can then see test_a.png

  - When I double-click on the .zip file, I then see test_b.png



The config qualifier is dropped from the folder name.





When you double-click on the file, you're not extracting the ZIP archive. 
You're just previewing its contents. This archive contains a single folder 
called "lilypond-2.23.80". (In my view, the preview, with the potential 
confusion it creates, is a Windows misfeature. With my GNOME file manager, when 
I double-click on an archive, it just gets extracted.)


When you extract any archive, the system will usually create a folder with all 
its contents, named like the archive but without the ".zip" extension. In this 
case, that means you get a "lilypond-2.23.80" folder inside a 
"lilypond-2.23.80-mingw-x86_64" folder.


Some systems / file managers may be smart and skip the outer directory if the 
archive contains only one file or directory, but that was not the case on the 
Windows system I used when writing this installation procedure, as you can see 
from the screenshots.


Best,
Jean


 

Re: 2.22.2 and 2.24.2

[Paul Hodges]

Jean has already answered your question.  But perhaps it should be made 
explicit that the Windows installation procedure has changed between 2.22 and 
2.24.  Version 2.22 (and all earlier) are 32 bit programs and have install 
programs which place the program in Program Files (x86); 2.24 and later is 64 
bit, and has no install program - you just unzip the directory and its contents 
from the zip file.  You can put it wherever suits you - desktop, home 
directory, whatever (I put it in Program Files, but that might cause access 
problems for some people).


Paul



 From:   Mark Stephen Mrotek  
 To:   'Paul Hodges' , 'Jean Abou Samra' 
 
 Cc:
 Sent:   09/09/2023 16:16 
 Subject:   RE: 2.22.2 and 2.24.2 




Paul, 
 
Thank you for the reassurance based on your experience.
Please bear with me and clarify some procedures.
I opened:
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.24/Documentation/learning/graphical-setup-under-windows
to read the process. 
My current Frescobaldi is 3.3.0. So good there.
Then further down is the direction:
Click on the folder icon and navigate to the lilypond-x.y.z-mingw-x86_64 folder 
you previously created. Inside this folder, open ‘lilypond-x.y.z’, then ‘bin’, 
and finally select ‘lilypond’.
When was that done?
 
Your assistance is appreciated.
 
Mark
 
 


From: Paul Hodges [mailto:p...@cassland.org] 
Sent: Saturday, September 9, 2023 1:20 AM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek ; 'Jean Abou Samra' 

Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: 2.22.2 and 2.24.2
 
Yes you can - they install by default into separate directories.  I have 
installed in Windows the final version of every stable release from 2.6, and 
the current (and one other) development version so that I can compile and 
update any lilypond code I come across.  Frescobaldi has them all linked in so 
the correct one is used automatically.

 

Paul



From: Mark Stephen Mrotek  
To: 'Jean Abou Samra'  
Cc:  
Sent: 09/09/2023 2:20 
Subject: RE: 2.22.2 and 2.24.2 

Jean,
 
Thank you.
My error in not being precise.
I am installing under Windows 10.
 
Mark
 


From: Jean Abou Samra [mailto:j...@abou-samra.fr] 
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 5:08 PM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: 2.22.2 and 2.24.2
 

 

 
Le 9 sept. 2023 à 02:05, Mark Stephen Mrotek  a écrit :
Hello All.


 
Can I keep an operational 2.22.2 while I attempt to download and install 2.24.2?
 

Depends on the installation method. With a package manager on Linux or macOS, 
usually no, but if you're just downloading the official binaries from 
lilypond.org, then yes, no problem at all.

 

Re: 2.22.2 and 2.24.2

[Paul Hodges]

Yes you can - they install by default into separate directories.  I have 
installed in Windows the final version of every stable release from 2.6, and 
the current (and one other) development version so that I can compile and 
update any lilypond code I come across.  Frescobaldi has them all linked in so 
the correct one is used automatically.


Paul



 From:   Mark Stephen Mrotek  
 To:   'Jean Abou Samra'  
 Cc:
 Sent:   09/09/2023 2:20 
 Subject:   RE: 2.22.2 and 2.24.2 




Jean,
 
Thank you.
My error in not being precise.
I am installing under Windows 10.
 
Mark
 


From: Jean Abou Samra [mailto:j...@abou-samra.fr] 
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 5:08 PM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: 2.22.2 and 2.24.2
 

 




Le 9 sept. 2023 à 02:05, Mark Stephen Mrotek  a écrit :
Hello All.


 
Can I keep an operational 2.22.2 while I attempt to download and install 2.24.2?
 

Depends on the installation method. With a package manager on Linux or macOS, 
usually no, but if you're just downloading the official binaries from 
lilypond.org, then yes, no problem at all.

 

Re: Bug

[Paul Hodges]

By replying to me personally rather than to the mailing list, you are 
restricting the number of people who might help you.  After this email I am 
going out for much of the day.


The procedure you need is:
(1) unzip the downloaded file - complete, as it is - it includes python in the 
form it needs it.  Try simply dragging the main directory inside the zip file 
to your desktop, or c:\ , or wherever else you may prefer; don't do anything 
more to the contents of the directory..
(2) install Frescobaldi.
(3) run Frescobaldi, and go into Edit | Preferences | Lilypond and set up a 
link pointing to \lilypond-2.24.2\bin\lilypond.exe
(4) write and edit music.


I never, ever run lilypond.exe directly, myself - but of course it can be used 
directly without going through Frescobaldi, if you are sufficiently comfortable 
with command-line working.


Good luck,
Paul



 From:   Vishal Ghule  
 To:   Paul Hodges  
 Sent:   09/09/2023 0:05 
 Subject:   Re: Bug 


Sorry for taking your time, but what should I do? Whith python zip which is in 
bin folder! Should I unziped it as well?


On Sat, Sep 9, 2023, 4:20 AM Vishal Ghule  wrote:

I need that software to open right !? so when I use frescobaldi and make some 
notation, then I have to insert file in midi format!


On Sat, Sep 9, 2023, 4:17 AM Vishal Ghule  wrote:

No matter how many times I open after running it shows black screen saying some 
some prompt username but it didn't last long even for second!


On Sat, Sep 9, 2023, 4:11 AM Vishal Ghule  wrote:

Lilypond application rights who have Lotua symbol 


On Sat, Sep 9, 2023, 4:01 AM Paul Hodges  wrote:

Then you did it wrong, or after doing it you ran the zipped copy instead of the 
newly copied one.


In the directory you extracted to you should see should see six subdirectories 
(bin, etc, lib, libexec, licenses, share), or you may see lilypond-2.24.2, in 
which you will find those six directories.  In bin you will find 20 files 
(including the dll files you got error messages about) - run lilypond.exe in 
that directory.


Paul



 From:   Vishal Ghule  
 To:   Paul Hodges  
 Sent:   08/09/2023 19:38 
 Subject:   Re: Bug 


No I did it 


On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 11:57 PM Paul Hodges  wrote:

You have not extracted the application from its zip file.  On my machine it 
even warns me if I try running it without doing the extraction first, but that 
may depend on what program you have for viewing the contents of the zip file.


Just extract the zip into a suitable directory where you want it, and then run 
Lilypond from there.



Paul



 From:   Vishal Ghule  
 To:
 Sent:   08/09/2023 19:08 
 Subject:   Bug 


version 2.24.2 mingw×86_64
Installing error 


Code execution cannot proceed because lobintl.8.dll was not found


The code execution cannot proceed libgilb-2.0.0.0.doll was not found


The code execution cannot proceed because libgio-2.0-0.dill not found


The code execution cannot proceed because libgobject-2.0-0 was not found


Even though I have downloaded multiple times whenever I open application it 
shows like this  

Re: Bug

[Paul Hodges]

Then you did it wrong, or after doing it you ran the zipped copy instead of the 
newly copied one.


In the directory you extracted to you should see should see six subdirectories 
(bin, etc, lib, libexec, licenses, share), or you may see lilypond-2.24.2, in 
which you will find those six directories.  In bin you will find 20 files 
(including the dll files you got error messages about) - run lilypond.exe in 
that directory.


Paul



 From:   Vishal Ghule  
 To:   Paul Hodges  
 Sent:   08/09/2023 19:38 
 Subject:   Re: Bug 


No I did it 


On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 11:57 PM Paul Hodges  wrote:

You have not extracted the application from its zip file.  On my machine it 
even warns me if I try running it without doing the extraction first, but that 
may depend on what program you have for viewing the contents of the zip file.


Just extract the zip into a suitable directory where you want it, and then run 
Lilypond from there.



Paul



 From:   Vishal Ghule  
 To:
 Sent:   08/09/2023 19:08 
 Subject:   Bug 


version 2.24.2 mingw×86_64
Installing error 


Code execution cannot proceed because lobintl.8.dll was not found


The code execution cannot proceed libgilb-2.0.0.0.doll was not found


The code execution cannot proceed because libgio-2.0-0.dill not found


The code execution cannot proceed because libgobject-2.0-0 was not found


Even though I have downloaded multiple times whenever I open application it 
shows like this  

Re: Bug

[Paul Hodges]

You have not extracted the application from its zip file.  On my machine it 
even warns me if I try running it without doing the extraction first, but that 
may depend on what program you have for viewing the contents of the zip file.


Just extract the zip into a suitable directory where you want it, and then run 
Lilypond from there.



Paul



 From:   Vishal Ghule  
 To:
 Sent:   08/09/2023 19:08 
 Subject:   Bug 


version 2.24.2 mingw×86_64
Installing error 


Code execution cannot proceed because lobintl.8.dll was not found


The code execution cannot proceed libgilb-2.0.0.0.doll was not found


The code execution cannot proceed because libgio-2.0-0.dill not found


The code execution cannot proceed because libgobject-2.0-0 was not found


Even though I have downloaded multiple times whenever I open application it 
shows like this  

Re: RhythmicStaff with measure counter

[Paul Hodges]

In the layout you're still adding the Measure_counter_engraver to the Staff 
context; you need to add it to the RhythmicStaff context.


Paul



 From:   Rajesh Baskar  
 To:   Lilypond-User Mailing List  
 Sent:   06/09/2023 3:22 
 Subject:   RhythmicStaff with measure counter 

Hi, 
 
I'm trying to achieve displaying the measure counter on top of the each  
measure on a rhythmic staff.  The below script working fine if you  
change the \new RhythmicStaff to \new Staff. 
 
How do I make this script work for rhythmicStaff. 
 
Thanks for the help- 
Raj 

Re: Trouble using version 2.20.0 & 2.24.1

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Ian West  




 Yes! I have now followed the instructions for running LilyPond with 
Frescobaldi. But I do not like it. 
 Indeed, I will not use it. The coding (on the left) is far too small for my 
eyes. (I was in the habit of using font-size 18 when typing in the code.) And I 
have not found a way to enlarge it. 




The font size for the source text is on the Fonts and Colours page of the 
Preferences, extreme bottom right.


Paul

Re: search terms

[Paul Hodges]

I think the "errant" dot is in the right place (in line with the one above).  
The issue I see is that the e above it is too far to the right.  I'd move that 
back and then adjust the tie with \shape to miss the dot on the c (also to miss 
the b at the other end).


To hide the flags, try "\once \hide Flag" before the note.  But sometimes I 
write e4*1/2 to write a crotchet (i.e.no flag) but with the timing of a quaver.


Paul



 From:   Mark Stephen Mrotek  
 To:
 Sent:   03/09/2023 23:42 
 Subject:   search terms 




Hello!
 
Two items for which I request search terms to locate solution/commands.
 

The first is the errant dot on the c4. This has been 
presented/discussed/resolved in a previous thread. Please provide a search term 
to locate that thread.
 
The second is a search term for the command to eliminate two flags, one on the 
e8 the other on the e16. I am using version 2.22,
 
Thank you for your kind attention.
 
Mark Stephen Mrotek

Re: strange detached beam issue

[Paul Hodges]

I note some other differences between your image and what the code sample 
generates, in the slur and dynamic positions.


I can't suggest what in particular is happening, but if this happened to me, 
I'd be looking for an earlier tweak or override which hadn't been cancelled.


Paul



 From:   Jin Choi  
 To:
 Sent:   15/08/2023 23:11 
 Subject:   strange detached beam issue 

I have a section of piano music where two voices start in the treble clef and 
subsequently move down into the bass clef. When the right hand moves down, the 
beam stays in the treble clef unattached to anything: 




When I try to isolate this section, the problem does not occur. I am mystified 
as to what is going on. What might be some things I could try? 

Re: grace notes/acciaccaturas occur before time signature change if only in bass clef

[Paul Hodges]

One of the oldest of all LilyPond bugs, to do with items which take no musical 
time.  You need to put a dummy grace note before the c in the upper staff; 
\grace s8 will do it.


Paul



 From:   Jin Choi  
 To:
 Sent:   15/08/2023 19:30 
 Subject:   grace notes/acciaccaturas occur before time signature change if 
only in bass clef 

In the following snippet, a change of time signature appears after an 
acciaccatura if the time change happened in one staff without a grace note but 
a grace note appears in some other staff. Is there a way to fix this without 
making sure the time change always appears in the staff with the grace? 
 





 
 
\version "2.24.1" 
 
upper = \relative c' { 
  \key c \major 
  c1 
  \time 2/2 
  c1 
} 
 
lower = \relative c { 
  \clef bass 
  c1 
  \acciaccatura c8 c1 
} 
 
\score { 
  \new PianoStaff { 
    << 
    \new Staff = "upper" \upper 
    \new Staff = "lower" \lower 
    >> 
  } 
} 
 

Re: One-page page-turning

[Paul Hodges]

 From:   Pierre-Luc Gauthier  

I understand from your code that this opens up the door to an 
arbitrary number of pages, say, a 3 page bloc. 'Could be fun ! 

This isn't necessarily a joke!  Both the last score I did (now in print) and 
the one I'm working on have fold-out pages to make the opening 3 pages wide.



Paul

Re: shifting accidentals horizontally

[Paul Hodges]

Gould p91 "Altered Unisons" gives the requested layout, not the LilyPond one.


Paul



 From:   Werner LEMBERG  
 To:
 Cc:
 Sent:   12/06/2023 18:46 
 Subject:   Re: shifting accidentals horizontally 

 
> Not the answer to the Lilypond question, but as a reference of 
> comparison, here is what Dorico does in this situation by default, 
> and I believe this to be correct standard practice. 
 
Well, it can't be generalized – sometimes LilyPond's default is the 
right choice.  However, it would be nice to have a simple command to 
get the 'other' solution (that Dorico defaults to). 
 
 
    Werner 

Re: Markup with text or text in dynamics font

[Paul Hodges]

In markup, you can use \dynamic to use the dynamics characters.  However, only 
a small part of the alphabet is provided, as it is normally only used for 
actual dynamics; what you want is not normal practice, and would come out 
looking like the attached image.


Paul



 From:   Ralph Palmer  
 To:   lilypond-user Mailinglist  
 Sent:   29/05/2023 23:00 
 Subject:   Markup with text or text in dynamics font 



Hi -


I appreciate all the help this list provides. I seem to be helping less than I 
used to; not sure why.


I've tried a few times recently to figure out how to make what would 
effectively be a markup in dynamic script, with no success. I've looked pretty 
extensively on the LilyPond site, as well as in the LSR and the email archives. 
I'm currently running LilyPond 2.24.0 and Frescobaldi 3.2 (still having 
problems figuring out how to install 3.3) under Linux/Ubuntu  22.04.2 LTS. 



I currently would like to add 

sempre ff e ben marcato
in dynamic font. I can do a markup using \bold and \italic, but it's not quite 
the same as the dynamic font. Am I missing a simple way to accomplish this?


I appreciate any help on this.


All the best,


Ralph




__
Ralph Palmer
Seattle
USA
(he, him, his)

palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com 

Re: Fonts and Tempo

[Paul Hodges]

For Unicode in Windows my preference is a little program called Wizkey - not 
free, but extremely ergonomic, both for searching and blind typing (in the case 
of ö, I just keyed: ctrl-: o).
https://antibody-software.com/wizkey/


For the tempo example, I just use markup in the \tempo command.


For the equality, I use something like:
    ^\markup \left-align \concat { "  ← " \smaller \note-by-number #2 #0 #0.8 " 
=" \smaller \note-by-number #2 #0 #0.8 " →" }
with alignment and offset trimmed as required (in my case to get the = over the 
bar-line).


Regards,
Paul





 From:   Greg Lindstrom  
 To:
 Sent:   21/05/2023 3:42 
 Subject:   Fonts and Tempo 


Good evening - 


Let me start off by saying I'm loving working with lilypond to engrave music. 
Well Done!!


Questions. How can I do this (an umlaut over the o??)






And on tempo markings (the "ca." after the equal sign. I could do it as all 
text but wanted to know if there's a more "lilypond" way to do it).






And as long as I'm asking (and you're still reading). How about this (a half 
note = a quarter note. I'd be happy to do it without the arrows -- which I 
think borders on silly -- but I'll give extra credit):






Thanks for any help you can provide. I have the Lilypond 2.12 Notation 
Reference so if you even point me to the section to reference I'll work it out.


Kind Regards,
--greg 

Re: Moving note in three-voice context

[Paul Hodges]

In fact Breitkopf's new Bach edition has somewhat more generous spacing that 
doesn't require a tweak.  


Overriding LilyPond's very clever spacing algorithm is a dark art to me.  I'm 
having to do a lot of it right now, but my approach is unashamedly hacky - but 
it works for me!  Anyway, my totally hacky solution (which I'm sure will get 
blown away shortly) is extremely simple: turn the first crotchet in the pedals 
into two notes, but secretly - that changes the spacing just enough.



pedal = \relative c {\global c1~ | c4*1/2 s8 c4 h a | gis2 gis' | }


c4*1/2 draws a crotchet, but only uses a quaver of time; the other quaver is 
filled by s8 (I tried a hidden real quaver first, but that took too much 
space), and the other parts move over a little to match.


Paul

Re: Moving note in three-voice context

[Paul Hodges]

ps. There's a free imaginary balloon to anyone who   recognises the piece.

BWV 572, bar 109

Horizontal bracket with dashed edges - possible?

[Paul Hodges]

I have a horizontal bracket with lengthened edges.  I want the edges to be 
dashed, but I can't see a way to do this without the horizontal part being 
dashed as well.  Is there a simple solution, or do I just have to draw an extra 
solid line over the part I don't want dashed?


Thanks,
Paul

Re: Othering??

[Paul Hodges]

I'll try contacting the author first (who might even have useful hints for me). 
 It was an example associated with a thesis on composition using a library 
which encapsulates LilyPond.  The site where I got the code has been made 
read-only since I got it, so I won't hand it out without checking.


Paul



 From:   Jean Abou Samra  
 To:   Paul Hodges ,  
 Sent:   10/05/2023 12:57 
 Subject:   Re: Othering?? 



Le mercredi 10 mai 2023 à 12:54 +0100, Paul Hodges a écrit :
No, it's not in the source (tried that...).


I guess I'll try tweaking the code until I find what affects it, then.  Maybe 
by then I'll understand it, too!


What about sending the code?


 

Re: Othering??

[Paul Hodges]

Eh?  It's a perfectly good word that gets a moderate amount of use, typically 
describing the treatment of people who are to be considered outsiders to a 
group.  It is a fairly modern coinage, but "other" is recognised as a 
transitive verb by both Oxford and Meriam-Webster in their recent dictionaries 
(my older Shorter Oxford doesn't list "other" as a verb, though).

Paul


 From:   Vincent Gay  
 To:
 Sent:   10/05/2023 13:44 
 Subject:   Re: Othering?? 

 
Le 10/05/2023 à 14:26, Andrew Bernard a   écrit :
  a word   that does not really exist in English DeepL 
translate Othering in French by altérisation, which is not really French either 
(the right word would be altération) 
I suppose this is related to the use of 
sharp, flat and other beccare  -- 
Vincent Gay
Envoyé depuis mon saxo-phone :)
https://myrealbook.vintherine.org/ - http://photos.vintherine.org/

Re: Othering??

[Paul Hodges]

No, it's not in the source (tried that...).


I guess I'll try tweaking the code until I find what affects it, then.  Maybe 
by then I'll understand it, too!


Thanks,
Paul



 From:   Jean Abou Samra  
 To:   Paul Hodges ,  
 Sent:   10/05/2023 12:37 
 Subject:   Re: Othering?? 



Le mercredi 10 mai 2023 à 12:28 +0100, Paul Hodges a écrit :
I am looking at some seriously weird LilyPond (largely Scheme, actually) which 
I suspect might help with something I am trying to do right now if I can get to 
follow what it's doing.  The sample I have found compiles correctly, and 
produces the expected output as far as I can see - but I may be wrong, as the 
following suggests!


However, the log output says "Othering" several times at the end, as shown in 
the attached image.  If I run convert-ly on it and compile with 2.25.4, the 
number of "Othering"s increases dramatically, and this time I also see some 
errors.  I won't bother you with the code (which is quite large), but knowing 
what "Othering" is indicating to me might help me figure out where the error I 
get in the later compilation is coming from. 


(Othering is a quite a mild message - yesterday Lilypond told me that what I 
was doing was insane, using that word...)




There is nothing in LilyPond's source code that could print "Othering", and 
judging from your screenshot, with "Othering" in a different color, indicating 
that it comes from stdout rather than stderr, it seems very likely that the 
Scheme code your are looking at is printing this.


 

Othering??

[Paul Hodges]

I am looking at some seriously weird LilyPond (largely Scheme, actually) which 
I suspect might help with something I am trying to do right now if I can get to 
follow what it's doing.  The sample I have found compiles correctly, and 
produces the expected output as far as I can see - but I may be wrong, as the 
following suggests!


However, the log output says "Othering" several times at the end, as shown in 
the attached image.  If I run convert-ly on it and compile with 2.25.4, the 
number of "Othering"s increases dramatically, and this time I also see some 
errors.  I won't bother you with the code (which is quite large), but knowing 
what "Othering" is indicating to me might help me figure out where the error I 
get in the later compilation is coming from. 


(Othering is a quite a mild message - yesterday Lilypond told me that what I 
was doing was insane, using that word...)


Paul

Re: Arrangement of adjacent notes in chord

[Paul Hodges]

That's great, thanks!  However :( it works fine with 2.20.0 as used in a nearby 
message, but with 2.25.4 it terminates with Exited with return code 
-1073741819.  Updating between those with convert-ly didn't help.  More 
specifically (trying with what I have installed) it works in 2.22.2, but not in 
2.23.3.


For my purposes using 2.22.2 is fine...



Paul



 From:   Jean Abou Samra  
 To:   Paul Hodges , Lilypond User  
 Sent:   05/05/2023 17:29 
 Subject:   Re: Arrangement of adjacent notes in chord 



Le vendredi 05 mai 2023 à 17:19 +0100, Paul Hodges a écrit :
Is there a way to control the way that notes are placed to the left or right of 
a stem?  I am trying to replicate an old score, and the placement of the 
noteheads is different from the LilyPond default (which follows Gould, of 
course).


The attached image shows what I want to reproduce - note that the stemmed and 
unstemmed chords are also arranged differently (this is consistent in the 
source).


Have a look at 
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2020-10/msg00535.html


 

Arrangement of adjacent notes in chord

[Paul Hodges]

Is there a way to control the way that notes are placed to the left or right of 
a stem?  I am trying to replicate an old score, and the placement of the 
noteheads is different from the LilyPond default (which follows Gould, of 
course).


The attached image shows what I want to reproduce - note that the stemmed and 
unstemmed chords are also arranged differently (this is consistent in the 
source).


Thanks,
Paul

Re: Glissando intervoices

[Paul Hodges]

I guess we all have different styles.  While I often do the hidden notes thing, 
another approach I find useful at times is to put notes into the same voice 
when they really aren't...


%%

\version "2.25.1" 
\language "english"


<< 
 \new Staff = "upper" << 
   \key e \minor 
   \new Voice \relative fs'' { \voiceOne fs2 s4 e8 fs g2. fs4 } 
   \new Voice \relative fs' { \voiceTwo fs2
                               \voiceOne ds'4*2/1 \glissando 
                               \voiceTwo b4 a b a }
 >> 
  
 \new Staff = "lower" << 
   \key e \minor
   \new Voice \relative ds' { \voiceOne ds8 e ds cs \voiceTwo b a g fs e1 } 
   \new Voice \relative b { \voiceTwo b2
                            \change Staff = "upper" fs'2 \glissando 
                            \change Staff = "lower"  \voiceOne e2 g4 fs } 
 >> 
>> 
%%%


Paul


 From:   Leo Correia de Verdier  
 To:   Mario Moles  
 Cc:
 Sent:   28/04/2023 10:49 
 Subject:   Re: Glissando intervoices 

Hi Mario! 
 
Like Kieren, I thought you were satisfied with the answers you got, since you 
did not send any MWE. Anyway, here is how I would code the passage you sent in 
the first mail: 
 
 
 
\version "2.25.1" 
<<  
   
  \new Staff = "upper" << 
    \key e \minor 
    \new Voice \relative fis'' { \voiceOne fis2 dis4 e8 fis  
                                 g2. fis4 }  
    \new Voice \relative dis'' { \voiceTwo s2 \hideNotes dis4 \glissando s4  
                                 \unHideNotes b4 a b a}  
    \new Voice \relative fis' { \voiceTwo  
                                fis2 fis \glissando  
                                % Here you could use \showStaffSwitch instead 
of \glissando 
                                \change Staff = "lower" \voiceOne 
                                e g4 fis } 
  >> 
   
  \new Staff = "lower" << 
    \new Voice \relative dis' { \voiceOne dis8 e dis cis \voiceTwo b a g fis e1 
} 
    \new Voice { \voiceTwo b2 } 
  >> 
   
>> 
 
 
 
It’s a bit messy, but with complex voice structures I usually end up there…  
In a real world situation you will, depending on what the music looks like 
either have to create parallel structures and new voices on the fly as they 
appear or keep empty voices ”alive” with spacer rests.  
 
I think the staff switch line actually looks better than the glissando, but 
they look different, so I’d stick with the glissando. 
 
Developing team: Could something like this (this is not the first time I see 
this kind of notation) be a reason for a mechanism allowing to create 
VoiceFollowers within one staff? Unless it already exists and I’m just unaware 
of it. 
 
HTH 
/Leo 
 
> 27 apr. 2023 kl. 23:54 skrev Mario Moles : 
>  
> No idea? From no one? Ok! Thank you! 
>  
> Il 26/04/23 01:13, Mario Moles ha scritto: 
>> I apologize because I explained myself badly. I use the glissando to 
>> indicate the sliding of the same finger of the left hand on the same string 
>> of the guitar. The blue lines I drew with Gwenview. The score posted as an 
>> example is a transcription of a "passemezzo" by VIncenzo Galilei for 
>> Renaissance lute. I transcribed on two staves for greater clarity of what I 
>> think is the polyphony of the piece. I am attaching the two files as an 
>> example. The "gui.ly" file is a general configuration file for my scores. 
>> Thank you! 
>>  
>> Il 25/04/23 12:57, Andrew Bernard ha scritto: 
>>> My thoughts exactly, for musical reasons. The lower is not a gliss in my 
>>> opinion, but a voice follower. And I agree with Jean regarding the top one 
>>> also. I think that's also an indicator of voice leading. But musicians can 
>>> follow this sort of score without help. I'd leave them out. Ant way, just 
>>> see the NR re voice follower if you want. 
>>>  
>>> Andrew 
>>>  
 
 

Re: Circular staves

[Paul Hodges]

How about this:


https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2010-02/msg00150.html


Not a natural, or even practical, way to code, sure; and for some reason shows 
a staff with 6 lines which I'm sure can readily be corrected.


Paul



 From:   Andrew Bernard  
 To:   Lilypond User  
 Sent:   23/04/2023 3:37 
 Subject:   Circular staves 

Just checking - you can't make circular staves with notes in lilypond,  
can you? I know you can do nice circle of fifths diagrams as per an LSR  
example, but circular staves are way out of scope, aren't they? 
 
This came up in the Dorico forum and several users assert with no  
evidence or examples that lilypond can, so I wanted to check my view. 
 
Andrew 
 
 
 

Re: Tuplet spacing comparison

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Lukas-Fabian Moser  

on https://twitter.com/spagnolo_mic/status/1648702871112671232, someone  
(obviously a MuseScore developer) posted an analysis of a  
Sibelius/MuseScore comparison. 
 
I took the liberty of adding a LilyPond version in case anybody is  
interested, compiled with today's current master. The .ly source is  
below; I had to force a \stemDown for the right hand part of the  
cross-staff situation (and \voiceOne / \voiceTwo settings, but these are  
expected). 




I happened to be checking tuplet notation in Gould today, and it strikes me 
that the default LilyPond treatment of tuplet brackets shown by that example 
does not follow her clear default rule (which is also stated by Ross, and 
followed without comment by Stone and loosely (!) by Read), which is that the 
ends of the brackets align with the outside edges of the noteheads or rests 
concerned.  For some reason LilyPond aligns with stems instead - which to my 
mind is ugly, as well as not following the guidance.


Regards, 
Paul

LilyPond 2.20.2 problem

[Paul Hodges]

I have old versions of LilyPond install to compile old scores directly.  I 
tried compiling with 2.20.2 (on Windows) today, and I get this error:




(lilypond.exe:3184): Pango-CRITICAL **: pango_fc_font_lock_face: assertion 
'PANGO_IS_FC_FONT (font)' failed 
warning: cannot get postscript name 
Exited with return code -1073741819.


I'm sure this has been OK in the past, and I even tried downloading it again 
and reinstalling with the same result.  I tried some other old versions, and 
this is the only version that has this problem.  Is it an interaction with 
Windows 11, perhaps (which I upgraded to recently)?  Given that it is an old 
version, is it likely that this will get looked at? - the ability to use old 
versions is quite a feature of LilyPond, after all.



Paul

Function for turning music upside-down.

[Paul Hodges]

I have been asked to take a piece of music (which I already have in LilyPond), 
and mirror it vertically.  That's to say, to take each note which is n 
semitones above middle c and replace it with the note n semitones below middle 
c, and vice versa.


Before I start trying to write a function to do this, I thought I'd ask if 
anyone has or is aware of a snippet which can already do this?


Thanks,
Paul

Re: Benefits of Cairo backend over Ghostscript for PDF

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Andrew Bernard  

In this day of gigabyte this an terabyte that, does a large PDF matter  
very much? What is the issue of concern?

Unnecessary waste of resources is always a poor idea, especially if it is 
unexplained.



My concern is more wondering that if the ordinary PDF is of the required 
quality (defined how?), what is being changed to increase its size so much?  
And if an unexplained change is being which is so visible to us, what changes 
might be happening that we haven't noticed.


Paul

Re: Discourse

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Jean Abou Samra  

Did they switch from a mailing list, or from other forum/discussion software?
Other forum software; e.g. Steinberg previously used phpBB which they had set 
up well (it's free and well-known, but a maintenance nightmare, as I know from 
working with it).  I've not tried the email approach to Discourse, as in any 
case I prefer the structure enforced in forum sections and threads.  Also, the 
structuring available for threads in mail clients is only one level, and varies 
so widely that it can't be seen as universally useful.


As a forum administrator for many years (recently retired), my preference is 
for the free Simple Machines forum software - but I do acknowledge that it is 
now "old fashioned" (I've not yet tried its recent major update though).  I'm 
not saying that Discourse is bad, either - just that I personally dislike it in 
comparison to many alternatives.


The forums I've been most involved with are fast losing ground to Discord 
[sic]; but the convenience of a forum arrangement for structured access to old 
"archived" information and discussions blows Discord out of the water - it is a 
system for rapid conversation and nothing more.


Paul

Re: Discourse

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Andrew Bernard  

I did a major investigation  
of other free forum programs and it pretty clear that Discourse is  
superior to all, 

I guess that's your opinion - however, my opinion is that the forums which I 
follow that have switched to Discourse are less convenient to use as a result, 
so I visit them less now.


Paul

Re: Installation of Lilypond 2.24.0 on a Windows 11 computer

[Paul Hodges]

What directory have you unpacked the LilyPond directory to?  I have put it into 
C:\Program Files (which is where Frescobaldi also gets installed) and I have no 
such problem.


It may be that if you have LilyPond and Frescobaldi in different places, then 
something may not get the permissions it expects, but that's just a hunch.


Paul



 From:
 To:
 Sent:   07/02/2023 16:00 
 Subject:   Installation of Lilypond 2.24.0 on a Windows 11 computer 





Hi,
 
I’m a little annoyed over problems in getting Lilypond 2.24.0 properly running 
on my computer.  My previous installation was Lilypond 2.22.2 together with 
Frescobaldi 3.2.  Everything worked fine and the main reason for switching to 
2.24 was new features making score-writing simpler.
 
Now, Lilypond 2.22.2was installed using a Windows installer.  For Lilypond 
2.24.0 and above, there appears to be no installer anymore or, at least, I’ve 
not found any anywhere.  Instead, the handbook explains how to “install” the 
new version by uncompress them on a suitable place on your computer and link 
them to Frescobaldi under Preferences.  This I’ve done without problem and in 
principle Lilypond 2.24.0 works including the new features. But when compiling 
a score, I now get error messages “Fontconfig error: No writable cache 
directories”

Unexpected warning message

[Paul Hodges]

The code below produces exactly the output that I expect. (It is extracted from 
a very complex bit of notation - trust me that things like the way the grace 
notes are written have a good reason in context.)


My concern is that as well as producing the expected output, it also generates 
a warning message:




C:/Users/PAUL~1.CAS/AppData/Local/Temp/frescobaldi-hq45qbn3/tmp6a3tkp_s/document.ly:8:12:
warning: Ignoring grob for slur: TrillPitchAccidental.  avoid-slur not set?
  cs8[)\fp
               \startTrillSpan ds


What does this even mean, and is there any way to resolve it?


Paul


%



\version "2.24.0"


\language english


\relative e'' {
  \magnifyMusic 0.67 { \stemUp e!8*1/16[\ff^( fs e] }
  \stemDown \pitchedTrill
  cs8[)\fp \startTrillSpan ds
  s4 
  \parenthesize cs8\<
  \hideNotes \set stemRightBeamCount=1 cs8*1/16]\f \stopTrillSpan
}

Re: irrational meters

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Mark Knoop  
 To:   H. S. Teoh  
 Cc:
 Sent:   18/01/2023 8:22 
 Subject:   Re: irrational meters 

Perhaps one should define "correctly" before assuming impossibility. By 
any definition of correctly which makes sense in this context (i.e. 
precise rhythmic execution), it is arguably equally impossible to play 
music in a *dyadic* meter correctly. 
 
 
Agreed.  In any case the impossibility assumes that a numeric tempo has been 
assigned using a rational note-value as base.  Also, it's only really an issue 
if the numerator of the signature is irrational, not the denominator.


As for alternatives, I suppose dyadic will do; but irregular is certainly wrong 
- there is no reason for an irrational tempo to be irregular, in fact, anything 
that can be expressed as a time signature is being given a regular definition.


Finally, if we're appealing to ancient meanings and etymology, consider the use 
of irrational in Greek and Latin prosody to mean the use of quantities which 
are not correctly part of the metre - I think that would transfer nicely to the 
musical use.


Anyway, I'm more exercised by people who talk about their weight when they mean 
their mass!


Paul

Re: Unknown expression mark

[Paul Hodges]

This is simply a combination of marcato (aka "strong accent") and staccato.  
The symbols are not usually overlapped like that, but it is not unknown - see 
the attached image from "Music Engraving Today" by Steven Powell (which I found 
in a discussion of how to get Dorico to do this).


I haven't tried, but I imagine that a little tweaking of vertical positions of 
the two symbols could get them to overlap like this.


Paul



 From:   Alberto Simões  
 To:   lilypond-user  
 Sent:   14/01/2023 17:58 
 Subject:   Unknown expression mark 



Hello, Friends


Anyone knows:
 - what is this expression mark (in terms of the player)
 - how to mimic this in Lilypond?


Thank you!
Alberto
 

CrossStaff and Slashed grace

[Paul Hodges]

I am using a function "\slash" from the snippets repository to add a slash to 
acciaccaturas with multiple notes.  This works fine in isolation.


However, if I use CrossStaff on the same notes, the slash no longer appears.  I 
presume this is because both the slash code and the CrossStaff code are 
modifying the same stem definition, and the CrossStaff code wins.  But I have 
no idea how to overcome this, other than by generating this particular slash as 
markup.


Any pointers?


Regards,
Paul

CrossStaff and Slash.ly
Description: Binary data

Re: Allowing a collision

[Paul Hodges]

Because although I've used it a lot, I set it up initially a year ago and had 
forgotten that I'd had to add the Span_stem_engraver to the PianoStaff context. 
 Once reminded of that, I can of course see that it can equally be added to the 
StaffGroup context that I'm using.


Thanks,
Paul



 From:   Jean Abou Samra  
 To:   Paul Hodges , lilypond-user Mailinglist 
 
 Sent:   04/01/2023 16:27 
 Subject:   Re: Allowing a collision 

Le 04/01/2023 à 17:24, Paul Hodges a écrit : 
> I have a score which has two staves, for unrelated instruments.  To  
> reproduce the composer's notation, I occasionally need to join the  
> stems of simultaneous notes on the two staves. 
> 
> In a piano staff this is catered for using the \crossStaff command.  
>  However, in my case this is inapplicable; so I am trying either to  
> lengthen the stems on one staff or to draw a line joining them, using  
> \markup. 
> 
> However, whichever method I try, LilyPond prevents the extended  
> stem/line from reaching note on the other staff, because it prevents  
> the collision from happening. 
> 
> Is there a way to turn off the collision avoidance for this specific  
> item in isolation? 
 
 
The real question is: why is \crossStaff inapplicable for you? 
 

Allowing a collision

[Paul Hodges]

I have a score which has two staves, for unrelated instruments.  To reproduce 
the composer's notation, I occasionally need to join the stems of simultaneous 
notes on the two staves.  


In a piano staff this is catered for using the \crossStaff command.  However, 
in my case this is inapplicable; so I am trying either to lengthen the stems on 
one staff or to draw a line joining them, using \markup.


However, whichever method I try, LilyPond prevents the extended stem/line from 
reaching note on the other staff, because it prevents the collision from 
happening.  


Is there a way to turn off the collision avoidance for this specific item in 
isolation?


Regards,
Paul

Feathered beams issue

[Paul Hodges]

When I feather these beams, the third beam is simply absent.  I suppose this is 
a bug (or an undocumented "limitation"?), but is there a practical workaround?


I guess I also need to make the beam thickness less so that the structure 
becomes more visible, though I suspect that will be less of a problem when I 
add the \featherDurations command.


Regards,
Paul

FeatheredBeamsIssue.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


FeatheredBeamsIssue.ly
Description: Binary data

Re: Simultaneous dotted notes

[Paul Hodges]

On 02/01/2023 16:39:00, "Pierre Perol-Schneider" 
 wrote:


(a) Is the Lilypond default presentation really the better way of 
indicating this?  If so, I can just leave it alone.  Otherwise,



Yes it is, AFAIK (See E. Gould as ref. as far as I remember)


In this specific instance I disagree.

See Gould, p59: "Unless conditions are cramped, [unison] notes of 
different duration take a dot beside each notehead".


Paul

Re: Simultaneous dotted notes

[Paul Hodges]

On 02/01/2023 16:39:00, "Pierre Perol-Schneider" 
 wrote:


(a) Is the Lilypond default presentation really the better way of 
indicating this?  If so, I can just leave it alone.  Otherwise,



Yes it is, AFAIK (See E. Gould as ref. as far as I remember)

Gould, top of page 59: "Unless conditions are cramped, [unison] notes of 
different duration take a dot beside each notehead" - so I'd say 
LilyPond is wrong here.


Paul

Re: Simultaneous dotted notes

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Pierre Perol-Schneider  





(a) Is the Lilypond default presentation really the better way of indicating 
this?  If so, I can just leave it alone.  Otherwise,
Yes it is, AFAIK (See E. Gould as ref. as far as I remember) 





In this instance I disagree.







See Gould, p59 (near top): "Unless conditions are cramped, [unison] notes of 
different duration take a dot beside each notehead".


Paul

Re: Problems with musicxml2ly

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Jacques Menu  





The legend on this page is misleading: the files that can be downloaded 
clicking on the supposedly MusicXML icon have a ‘.mxl’ suffix, i.e. they are 
MuseScore files in fact:

.mxl files are the standard compressed form of Music XML files; the Music XML 
file is compressed as a .zip file which is then renamed .mxl.









As to the original issue - my experience is that Music XML files always require 
a lot of processing to get acceptable output - I just treat them as a means of 
inputting notes, and remove all the extraneous formatting, and simplify and 
rewrite the score layout until it's correct.  Music XML is far from a 
satisfactory medium for transmitting formatted scores.


Sometimes I find it helps to read the Music XML into Dorico and write a new 
Music XML file from there; but in this case Dorico sees similar problems, with 
five staves for the organ, and also overlaid words in some places which 
LilyPond manages better.


Paul

Re: LilyPond 2.24.0 released!

[Paul Hodges]

Your snippet compiles correctly (with the errors) on my Windows install of 
2.24.0


Paul



 From:   H. S. Teoh via LilyPond user discussion  
 To:
 Sent:   16/12/2022 18:33 
 Subject:   Re: LilyPond 2.24.0 released! 

On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 10:42:42PM +0100, Jonas Hahnfeld via LilyPond user 
discussion wrote: 
> We are proud to announce the release of GNU LilyPond 2.24.0. 
[...] 
 
This latest release broke one of my scores.  I have reduced the problem 
to the following snippet: 
 
     \version "2.18.2" 
     \score { 
         \tuplet 3/2 4 { \repeat tremolo 6 { 8( } } 
     } 
 
Lilypond produces the following error: 
 
     Processing `2.ly' 
     Parsing... 
     Interpreting music... 
     warning: omitting tuplet bracket with neither left nor right bound 
     2.ly:3:55: warning: unterminated slur 
         \tuplet 3/2 4 { \repeat tremolo 6 { 8 
                                         ( } } 
     Preprocessing graphical objects... 
     /usr/src/lilypond/share/lilypond/2.25.0/ly/init.ly:65:2: error: Guile 
signaled an error for the expression beginning here 
     # 
      (let ((book-handler (if (defined? 'default-toplevel-book-handler) 
     In procedure ly:grob-array-ref: Wrong type argument in position 1 
(expecting Grob_array): () 
 
I have narrowed down the offending commit using git bisect to the 
following: 
 
     commit fd92bef058ee0fbbdaafdee0cc056316f6d4b9f9 (HEAD, refs/bisect/bad) 
     Author: Jean Abou Samra  
     Date:   Tue Oct 25 00:48:09 2022 +0200 
 
         Move Tuplet_bracket::parallel_beam to objects callbacks 
 
         Not only does this avoid redoing the same computation several times, 
but it 
         makes what happens much clearer, because previously, different calls 
to 
         Tuplet_bracket::parallel_beam would non-obviously return different 
values 
         depending on the caller callback since some of the callers are 
executed before 
         line breaking and some after. 
 
Prior to this commit, the original score compiled correctly, albeit with 
the same warnings about omitting tuplet brackets.  The output is correct 
(a slashed stem with the tuplet number written above the chord).  The 
current release, however, does not produce any output because lilypond 
aborts after displaying the above error message. 
 
How do I obtain the same output without triggering this error? 
 
 
--T 
 

Re: The disappearing glissando - a horizontal spacing saga

[Paul Hodges]

Oops - didn't attach the examples.
Paul



 From:   Paul Hodges  
 To:   Lilypond-User Mailing List  
 Sent:   02/11/2022 17:18 
 Subject:   The disappearing glissando - a horizontal spacing saga 

1) The problem


I have a grace note several degrees higher than the main note, and I have to 
draw a glissando between them.  This works if the main note has no accidental 
(though it's skimpy because of the minimal X-space available; but if the main 
note has an accidental then the grace note is placed above it and the X-space 
available for the glissando goes negative (as the end-point is before the 
accidental) and nothing appears.


2) Possible solutions


The composer has drawn the glissando to the note head, not to the accidental - 
this would work adequately, but the spacing would still be tight - and in any 
case I couldn't find any way to make this happen.


The horizontal spacing between the grace note and the main note could be 
increased.  Again, I couldn't find a way to do this directly, not least because 
most tweaks and overrides I thought of appear to operate simultaneously on both 
the notes.


3) Where I'm at


I have got somewhere with increasing the space used by the accidental - but 
again, this has an affect on the grace note, forcing it across unless there is 
nothing anywhere nearby.  As this follows a clef in my score, I tried giving 
the clef a negative extent - but that caused it to overlap the notes entirely.


Clearly I don't understand horizontal spacing adequately.


The example has three parts: the first is what I'm trying to produce - the 
glissando is fine, but the spacing from the clef is too great; the second shows 
the way the glissando gets lost; the third shows that my solution kinda works 
if the unwanted extension of the grace note is somewhere harmless.


Any clarification or advice would be greatly appreciated!


Regards,
Paul

GraceGlissando.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


GraceGlissando.ly
Description: Binary data

The disappearing glissando - a horizontal spacing saga

[Paul Hodges]

1) The problem


I have a grace note several degrees higher than the main note, and I have to 
draw a glissando between them.  This works if the main note has no accidental 
(though it's skimpy because of the minimal X-space available; but if the main 
note has an accidental then the grace note is placed above it and the X-space 
available for the glissando goes negative (as the end-point is before the 
accidental) and nothing appears.


2) Possible solutions


The composer has drawn the glissando to the note head, not to the accidental - 
this would work adequately, but the spacing would still be tight - and in any 
case I couldn't find any way to make this happen.


The horizontal spacing between the grace note and the main note could be 
increased.  Again, I couldn't find a way to do this directly, not least because 
most tweaks and overrides I thought of appear to operate simultaneously on both 
the notes.


3) Where I'm at


I have got somewhere with increasing the space used by the accidental - but 
again, this has an affect on the grace note, forcing it across unless there is 
nothing anywhere nearby.  As this follows a clef in my score, I tried giving 
the clef a negative extent - but that caused it to overlap the notes entirely.


Clearly I don't understand horizontal spacing adequately.


The example has three parts: the first is what I'm trying to produce - the 
glissando is fine, but the spacing from the clef is too great; the second shows 
the way the glissando gets lost; the third shows that my solution kinda works 
if the unwanted extension of the grace note is somewhere harmless.


Any clarification or advice would be greatly appreciated!


Regards,
Paul

Re: Change clef size

[Paul Hodges]

I have now used this successfully in four scores (four parts of one work), but 
I have a mystery.


In the first three, it worked perfectly as expected.  However, in the fourth (a 
larger score) it worked for a while and then the change clefs reverted to the 
original default size.  I had to correct this my using an explicit font-size 
override when it went wrong, but this also lasted only a certain way and then 
needed to be repeated.  I cannot think of anything in the score which would 
have any bearing on this, apart from one place (much later than where it went 
wrong) where I did a \once \override on the clef extent.


It doesn't really matter because I've worked round it fine, but I am left 
wondering what made it go wrong as I can't think of a mechanism to cause it.


Paul



 From:   Jean Abou Samra  
 To:   Paul Hodges , Lilypond-User Mailing List 
 
 Sent:   30/10/2022 22:15 
 Subject:   Re: Change clef size 

Le 30/10/2022 à 23:06, Paul Hodges a écrit : 
> To get the best match with other pieces being supplied to the same  
> publisher I am using the Bravura font instead of Emmentaler.  However,  
> the change-clef glyphs in this font are notably smaller than usual,  
> and I've been asked to enlarge them.  I know how to use the full size  
> clef glyphs, but that's not an acceptable solution, and I cannot find  
> any size property attached to clefs which I could tweak.  Am I missing  
> something simple, or do I have to find a way to change the glyph in  
> the font? 
 
 
 
 
Something like this? 
 
\version "2.22.2" 
 
\layout { 
   \context { 
     \Score 
     \override Clef.font-size = 
   #(lambda (grob) 
  (let* ((glyph (ly:grob-property grob 'glyph-name)) 
     (is-change (string-endswith glyph "_change"))) 
    (if is-change 
    0.5 ;; adjust 
    0))) 
     \override Clef.before-line-breaking = 
   #(lambda (grob) 
  ;; Necessary to trigger font-size callback.  Otherwise it is 
  ;; not triggered because font-size is used via the same property 
  ;; alist chain mechanism as markups. 
  (ly:grob-property grob 'font-size)) 
   } 
} 
 
{ 
   \clef "treble" 
   c''1 
   \clef bass 
   c1 
} 
 
 
Best, 
Jean 
 

Re: Curious behaviour of q and a tweak

[Paul Hodges]

Oops - start should read:


I wanted to lengthen the stem of only the second of a pair of tied chords.



 From:   Paul Hodges  
 To:
 Sent:   31/10/2022 15:08 
 Subject:   Curious behaviour of q and a tweak 



I wanted to lengthen the stem of a pair of tied chords, but it didn't work as 
expected.  After some playing around, I found that I cannot tweak the 
properties of a chord represented by q (repeating the previous chord), but that 
the tweaks on the original chord get carried over.  This example shows the 
possibilities:



%%
\version "2.23.80"


{
  \clef bass
  \voiceTwo
  2 
  \tweak Stem.length #15
  q8 r4. |
  \tweak Stem.length #15
  2 
  q8 r4. |
  2 
  \tweak Stem.length #15
  8 r4. |
}
%%


This may be logical in the code, but it surprised me in practical use.


Paul

Curious behaviour of q and a tweak

[Paul Hodges]

I wanted to lengthen the stem of a pair of tied chords, but it didn't work as 
expected.  After some playing around, I found that I cannot tweak the 
properties of a chord represented by q (repeating the previous chord), but that 
the tweaks on the original chord get carried over.  This example shows the 
possibilities:



%%
\version "2.23.80"


{
  \clef bass
  \voiceTwo
  2 
  \tweak Stem.length #15
  q8 r4. |
  \tweak Stem.length #15
  2 
  q8 r4. |
  2 
  \tweak Stem.length #15
  8 r4. |
}
%%


This may be logical in the code, but it surprised me in practical use.


Paul

Re: Change clef size

[Paul Hodges]

So easy!  Thanks Jean and Leo.


The simple thing I missed was that the size of a glyph is a font-size and can 
be tweaked that way.


Thanks,
Paul

Change clef size

[Paul Hodges]

To get the best match with other pieces being supplied to the same publisher I 
am using the Bravura font instead of Emmentaler.  However, the change-clef 
glyphs in this font are notably smaller than usual, and I've been asked to 
enlarge them.  I know how to use the full size clef glyphs, but that's not an 
acceptable solution, and I cannot find any size property attached to clefs 
which I could tweak.  Am I missing something simple, or do I have to find a way 
to change the glyph in the font?


Thanks,
Paul

Re: Passing a parameter to Scheme

[Paul Hodges]

On further thought, I suspect that I can't aim at "\speak #-3.8 c" because 
#-3.8 isn't a music expression so LilyPond won't let me.  I guess I'll need to 
use a \tweak or \set on the parameter variable instead.  But that leaves me 
even further from knowing how to write it, largely because my brain's model of 
computing (honed over 55 years) is entirely based on procedural languages with 
nested scopes (Algol, C) or Assembly language with everything global.  I simply 
don't know how scopes and namespaces work in Scheme, and thus how to define 
that parameter in a way that I can access it to tweak.


Paul



 From:   Paul Hodges  
 To:   lilypond-user  
 Sent:   29/10/2022 10:50 
 Subject:   Passing a parameter to Scheme 

I am trying to make my first steps in actually modifying some Scheme.  I am 
using a procedure taken from the snippets repository to add a cross to a stem 
(e.g. to indicate sprechgesang):


%%

speak = {
  \once \override Stem.stencil =
    #(lambda (grob)
       (let* ((x-parent (ly:grob-parent grob X))
              (is-rest? (ly:grob? (ly:grob-object x-parent 'rest
         (if is-rest?
             empty-stencil
             (ly:stencil-combine-at-edge
              (ly:stem::print grob)
              Y
              (- (ly:grob-property grob 'direction))
              (grob-interpret-markup grob
                                     (markup #:center-align #:fontsize -2
                                             #:musicglyph "noteheads.s2cross"))
              -2.3
}
%%


This works fine, writing "\speak c4" for instance.


However, I'd like to be able to parameterise the position of the cross which is 
hard-coded as -2.3, so that I can write "\speak #-3.8 c" for instance.  I've 
tried a couple of ways to write it, but I can't find one that works.  I suppose 
that I will need something like "lambda (grob posn)" to define the parameter 
for use at the end, but I can't see how to get the value of posn from the 
LilyPond source into the Scheme procedure.


Help?


Thanks,
Paul

Passing a parameter to Scheme

[Paul Hodges]

I am trying to make my first steps in actually modifying some Scheme.  I am 
using a procedure taken from the snippets repository to add a cross to a stem 
(e.g. to indicate sprechgesang):


%%

speak = {
  \once \override Stem.stencil =
    #(lambda (grob)
       (let* ((x-parent (ly:grob-parent grob X))
              (is-rest? (ly:grob? (ly:grob-object x-parent 'rest
         (if is-rest?
             empty-stencil
             (ly:stencil-combine-at-edge
              (ly:stem::print grob)
              Y
              (- (ly:grob-property grob 'direction))
              (grob-interpret-markup grob
                                     (markup #:center-align #:fontsize -2
                                             #:musicglyph "noteheads.s2cross"))
              -2.3
}
%%


This works fine, writing "\speak c4" for instance.


However, I'd like to be able to parameterise the position of the cross which is 
hard-coded as -2.3, so that I can write "\speak #-3.8 c" for instance.  I've 
tried a couple of ways to write it, but I can't find one that works.  I suppose 
that I will need something like "lambda (grob posn)" to define the parameter 
for use at the end, but I can't see how to get the value of posn from the 
LilyPond source into the Scheme procedure.


Help?


Thanks,
Paul

Re: Polyrhythmic music

[Paul Hodges]

Thanks a lot, that's brilliant!


After writing to the list, I found the short example of polymetric notation 
(using the right keywords really helps - polyrhythmic finds so little!), and I 
think I can use that to solve most of the problems I can see.  Certainly the 
bit in the middle of the second line of the example I posted.  There are places 
elsewhere with non-aligned bar signatures and bar lines; and also with notation 
of different values in the two staves, combined with feathered beams, which 
\scaleDurations and \featherDurations should solve.


Your code for changing the staff lines I'd already worked out, but I was a bit 
stuck on the beam arrow - I'm hopeful that I'll be able to manage enough Scheme 
to extend your procedure for that to make a more exact match to the MS (i.e. 
with the arrow on a beam extension). Seeing how you handled enabling and 
disabling the cross-system bar lines is helpful, and the markup for the arrow 
indicating when notes are played together.  I already have (from my previous 
project) the code to add a stroke to the multiple grace notes.


Thanks again for taking the time to do that much.
Paul



 From:   Jean Abou Samra  
 To:   Paul Hodges ,  
 Sent:   27/10/2022 13:03 
 Subject:   Re: Polyrhythmic music 

 
 
Le 27/10/2022 à 12:10, Paul Hodges a écrit : 
> This is not (yet) a specific query, I'm afraid.  My new project is  
> going to push my usage of LilyPond way beyond what I've done up till  
> now.  I have already found solutions for a couple of new challenges,  
> and a partial solution to a third. 
> 
> But my main issue is polyrhythms.  There are two instruments, and some  
> of the time they play in sync, with the same barring, and barlines  
> which join across the system; then at other times they separate, and  
> may play a section at different speeds and barring, coming together  
> again later.  I know that I have to move the Timing_translator  
> engraver from Score context to Staff, but so far my searching has not  
> shown me how to work further with this.  How, for instance, do I  
> indicate the points at which the parts meet (within a polyrhythmic  
> section), and how to change between synchronised and polyrhythmic  
> sections? 
> 
> Does anyone have any hints, guidance, or experience which might help  
> get me started?  I have attached a bad scan of a couple of lines of  
> the MS to give an idea of what I'm facing. 
 
 
 
For a start, have a look at the documentation: 
 
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/displaying-rhythms#polymetric-notation
 
 
Several techniques related to polyrhythms are explained there with  
examples, including moving Timing_translator and using \scaleDurations. 
 
 From the image you sent, I actually don't understand where the  
polyrhythms are, can you elaborate? 
 
See attached for .ly code for the beginning of your excerpt (it gave me  
some busywork to relax…). As you can see, there are unsurprisingly lots  
of tweaks. I hope this gets you started for the rest. 
 
Best, 
Jean 

Re: Complex vertical positioning (eight items in four bars)

[Paul Hodges]

Aside from the main issue, when there is only one voice on a staff you need to 
change that voice to \oneVoice so that the rests are correctly centred and ties 
on octaves go in opposite directions (then back to \voiceOne or \voiceTwo as 
necessary).


Paul



 From:   Kenneth Wolcott  
 To:   Lily Pond  
 Sent:   26/10/2022 0:33 
 Subject:   Complex vertical positioning (eight items in four bars) 

Hi; 
 
Complex vertical positioning (eight items in four bars) 
 
I'm engraving a Piano arrangement of the Waltz Nr 2 using a previously 
typeset example (from the Suite for Jazz Orchestra composed by Dmitri 
Shostakovich), in which I encounter a complex vertical positioning 
situation. 
 
Prior to making any further tweaks, I'd like to ask you all for your 
opinion on whether or not the prior typesetter's choices were optimal. 
 
Original pdf, my engraving and my Lilypond source are attached. 
 
Thanks, 
Ken Wolcott 

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Nicholas Bailey  


 I see you have a Faculty of Asian and Middle Eastern  
Studies, University of Oxford email address. They shouldn't be using that OS  
any more.

When I retired from Oxford University (where I was a department network 
manager) six years ago, most departments were already detecting and forbidding 
the use of XP on the University's networks. Some departments made provision for 
a separately firewalled and restricted network for machines running 
unreplaceable laboratory equipment.



Paul

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Paul Hodges]

I used XP64 for a while.  What killed it for me was that when XP service pack 3 
came out, many programs started to require the new facilities it included, and 
so checked for SP3 being installed.  XP64 had the same service pack, but 
because the 64bit XP had come out later than the 32bit version, it was called 
SP2, and so the programs requiring and checking for "SP3" would refuse to run 
even though the capability to run them was present!


Paul



 From:   Aaron Hill  

Microsoft did not "hold systems down".  In the era of XP, Windows came  
in a 64-bit version, colloquially known as XP64.  The main issue was  
that most consumers at that time only had access to 32-bit hardware, so  
it was not a priority to market 64-bit support. 

Re: Accent on single note of chord?

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Werner LEMBERG  
Actually, it is a standard thing, at least in piano music.  Attached 
is an example from Schumann's 'Humoreske' (Henle Urtext). 



I've also seen it in twentieth-century piano music.  But it is not mentioned in 
any of Ross, Read, Stone, or Gould - so I guess it's considered a very minor 
thing!


Paul

Re: How to get .ly from .pdf

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Aaron Hill  

There is certainly no shortage of good ideas from the many users on the  
mailing list.  Anytime someone is able to publish the source for a  
real-world score, there is hope of finding some new pattern or structure  
that can streamline your own work. 

I suspect that if I released the source of my scores which are being 
commercially published, they'd be set up as examples of bad practice!


Some of my scores done for hobby purposes are much cleaner, because there are 
generally less of the subtle problems to be solved, and style doesn't matter 
(other than satisfying myself, of course).



Paul

Re: Export to XML

[Paul Hodges]

From: Andrew Bernard  
Subject: Re: Export to XML 

Unless they accept a PDF 
from you and print that or reset from scratch I think you are stuck.


My son is arranging the publication of the remaining works of a recently 
deceased composer, and the republication properly typeset of some works already 
published in MS form.  The publisher is Novello (Wise group), and they are 
accepting PDFs for print.  I have done a couple of works using LilyPond - 
another person has done some using Finale; my son has prompted us to bring our 
styles as reasonably close as we can to the style used by Novello in the works 
they have previously typeset, within the limitations of each of our software 
(basically I have changed the music font, and the thicknesses of some lines), 
and Novello have not asked for more.


Paul

Re: Expanding rest printing so tempo changes don't clash

[Paul Hodges]

Look into \markLengthOn and markLengthOff.


You can find examples on this page: 
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.23/Documentation/notation/displaying-rhythms


Paul



 From:   Galen Hazelwood  
 To:
 Sent:   02/08/2022 22:55 
 Subject:   Expanding rest printing so tempo changes don't clash 


Hello, everyone. I'm a relatively inexperienced lilypond user trying to use it 
for a big project (score and parts for Leo Ornstein's Piano Concerto) and I've 
been running into some issues. I'd like to start with what I hope is an easy 
one.


There's a point early on where I have three \tempo markings in fairly close 
proximity. For the instruments that aren't playing, it looks like this:


{ \tempo "più agitato" R1 \tempo "Appasionata, ma molto sostenuto" R1*2 \time 
2/4 R2 \time 3/4 \tempo "Allegro" R2. }



Lilypond prints this so tightly packed that the "Appasionata" actually sits 
over the "piu agitato", and it in turn is such a long string that it overlaps 
the "Allego". So I'd like to make those rest bars artificially longer, to match 
the length of the tempo strings plus some margin.


The trouble is, I'm not sure what to override. I tried Rest.extra-spacing-width 
(by analogy with NoteHead.extra-spacing-width, which I used elsewhere) and it 
didn't seem to do anything, so it's not the right object. Can anyone point me 
in the right direction here?


One last wrinkle; it has to work with \compressMMRests.


Thanks!
--Galen





 

Re: Byzantine singing

[Paul Hodges]

 
 
(Dead links; web.archive.org Wayback Machine might help.) 



Sadly, no it doesn't.  And searching for Lilychant finds nothing but a 
different project on GitHub.



Paul

Re: \time 9/8 (3/4)

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Hans Åberg  

There is also the practise to write the triplet markers just a few bars, and 
then skipping them. Perhaps for simplifying handwriting and helping then 
engraver in the days this was done by hand, so would not be needed nowadays 
when done electronically. 
 

Not needed maybe, but in some contexts actually easier to read in my view.


Paul

Re: Last note of a first alternative is a tie to the first note in the repeat; how to engrave this?

[Paul Hodges]

From:   David Kastrup  
There is also \startTrillSpan/\stopTrillSpan, \startGroup/\stopGroup, 
\startGraceSlur/\stopGraceSlur, \startTextSpan/\stopTextSpan, 
\startMeasureCount/\stopMeasureCount, 
\startMeasureSpanner/\stopMeasureSpanner . 

So there is a clear pattern of \startItem and \endItem being opposite ends of a 
single thing. 


But the same words used a bit differently might work, so that "the start of a 
tie" could be called \tieStart and so on (\tieEnd, \slurStart, \slurEnd).


Paul

Re: Lilypond not generating PDF

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Aaron Hill  
LilyPond does not require nor does it request elevation. 

I didn't think it did.  But sometimes people change the priority of programs 
for reasons we may not realise.  I merely pointed out that Windows has a way to 
prevent drag and drop working, in case this was (abnormally) the situation.


Paul

Re: Lilypond not generating PDF

[Paul Hodges]

Blocking dropping onto elevated targets from a non-elevated desktop has been a 
security feature of UAC since it was introduced a decade and a half ago.  You 
can remove the restriction by running with UAC turned off, which the 
security-minded will of course advise you not to do, and many people have no 
clue about anyway (it is, however, the way I run my machine, because I choose 
how to control my security myself).


Alternatively, you can get a third-party file manager, run it with elevated 
permissions, and then drop and drop within it - but you can't elevate Windows 
Explorer to try to get the same effect.



Paul



 From:   Aaron Hill  

On 2022-07-04 1:50 am, Andrew Bernard wrote: 
> I see from searching that the issue is with elevated and non elevated 
> permissions. 
 
Where do you see this?  Drag-and-drop is a simple feature of the Windows  
shell that should require no special permission. 

Re: Lilypond not generating PDF

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Andrew Bernard  

I do know know how to _not_ install it with admin rights as the sole  
user, me, has admin permissions.

Sorry, I expressed it loosely.  As you determined, the issue is specifically 
Extended Permissions - which, however, are selected in Windows with the menu 
item "Run as Administrator" (even if you are already administrator).


Paul

Re: Lilypond not generating PDF

[Paul Hodges]

Still can't get it right!  


s/Extended/Elevated/

Paul



 From:   Paul Hodges  
 To:   lilypond-user  
 Sent:   04/07/2022 14:13 
 Subject:   Re: Lilypond not generating PDF 


From:   Andrew Bernard  

I do know know how to _not_ install it with admin rights as the sole  
user, me, has admin permissions.

Sorry, I expressed it loosely.  As you determined, the issue is specifically 
Extended Permissions - which, however, are selected in Windows with the menu 
item "Run as Administrator" (even if you are already administrator).


Paul

Re: Lilypond not generating PDF

[Paul Hodges]

Is LilyPond installed with administrative rights?  That's a common reason for 
drag and drop not to work (it's forbidden in that case).


Paul



 From:   Ben Eisenstein  
 To:
 Sent:   03/07/2022 23:48 
 Subject:   Lilypond not generating PDF 

 
I installed Lilypond pn Windows 10. I followed the intstructions   of 
updating the path. Then I put the test.ly file on the desktop.   Then 
placed it's icon over the Lilypond icon. 
Two files were created: test and test-tmp-9972888, 
This is the content of test:
# -*-compilation-*-
 Processing `C:/Users/Ben/Desktop/test.ly'
 Parsing...
 Interpreting music...
 Preprocessing graphical objects...
 Finding the ideal number of pages...
 Fitting music on 1 page...
 Drawing systems...
 Converting to `/Users/Ben/Desktop/test.pdf'...
 
The tst-temp file starts with:
%!PS-Adobe-3.0
 %%Creator: LilyPond 2.22.1
 %%Pages: 1
 %%PageOrder: Ascend
 %%Orientation: Portrait
 %%DocumentMedia: a4 595.28 841.89 80 () ()
 %%DocumentSuppliedResources: font C059-Bold
 %%DocumentSuppliedResources: font C059-Roman
 %%DocumentSuppliedResources: font Emmentaler-20
 %%EndComments  
Any ideas as to what could be wrong? 
Thanks, 
Ben
 

Re: Simultaneous ottava and non-ottava voices

[Paul Hodges]

The ottava bracket needs both ends defined to appear, so the ottava command and 
its cancellation should be at the start and end of the music to be affected, 
like this:


  << { \ottava 1 \repeat unfold 4 c'' \ottava 0 } \\ { \repeat unfold 4 d,, } >>


However, the command is acted on at the staff level, so both voices are 
affected as you have observed.  This is changed not by what you have tried 
doing, but by removing the engraver from the staff context and inserting it in 
the voice context so that only the voice containing the commands is affected, 
like so:



\layout {
  \context {
    \Staff
    \remove Ottava_spanner_engraver
  }
  \context {
    \Voice
    \consists Ottava_spanner_engraver
  }
}


See the first snippet at 
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.23/Documentation/snippets/tweaks-and-overrides

Paul



 From:   Ahanu Banerjee  
 To:   lilypond-user  
 Sent:   01/07/2022 0:24 
 Subject:   Simultaneous ottava and non-ottava voices 



Hi, 



Is it possible to have two voices in one measure, on one staff, with one voice 
as "Ottava 1" and the other as "Ottava 0"? (I realise this notation may seem 
unclear, but I have a specific use case.)


If I try the following, each ottava overrides the other:



\version "2.23.10"
\relative c' {
  << { \ottava 1 \repeat unfold 4 c'' } \\ { \ottava 0 \repeat unfold 4 d,, } >>
}


Thanks,
-Ahanu 

Re: warning: adding note head to incompatible stem (type = 1/1)

[Paul Hodges]

Change:

      \new Staff << { \lh_one } \\ { \lh_two } >>
to:

      \new Staff << \lh_one \lh_two >>


and you will see a big improvement.


Paul


 From:   Kenneth Wolcott  
 To:   Lily Pond  
 Sent:   30/06/2022 20:57 
 Subject:   warning: adding note head to incompatible stem (type = 1/1) 

HI; 
 
  I am now engraving a Cello+Piano arrangement of the last song (no 
lyrics) "None but the Lonely Heart" of Op. 6 of Tchaikovsky. 
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/None_but_the_Lonely_Heart_(Tchaikovsky) 
 
  The left hand notes have polyphony. 
 
  The whole note in one measure and the half notes in the following 
measure each conflict with an eighth note rest in the other voice. 
 
  I am not (yet) explicitly using voices, perhaps that is my problem? 
 
  How do I successfully engrave this with Lilypond 2.22.2? 
 
  I also receive the following warning/hint: "warning: maybe input 
should specify polyphonic voices". 
 
I have attached the full pdf of what I am engraving, my engraving and 
the Lilypond source I wrote. 
 
Thanks, 
Ken Wolcott 

Re: CrossStaff and Dynamics

[Paul Hodges]

Your snippet doesn't include the Span_stem_engraver, so I guess you lost that 
when adding the Dynamics.  Here is an extracted part of the score of that I am 
just now working on, with /lots/ of cross-staff joins as well as central 
dynamics:



\score {
  <<
    \new PianoStaff \with {
      \consists "Span_stem_engraver"
    } 
    <<
      \set PianoStaff.instrumentName = \markup\bold"Piano I"
      \new Staff = "priRH" { \clef treble \IpriRH }
      \new Dynamics = "priDy" \IpriDy
      \new Staff = "priLH" { \clef bass \IpriLH }
    >>
  >>
}


Regards,
Paul


 From:   Alberto Simões  
 To:
 Sent:   25/06/2022 21:17 
 Subject:   CrossStaff and Dynamics 



Hello


I am using CrossStaff and everything worked fine.
But after following a snippet that suggest adding the dynamics as an 
independent voice of spaces:


\score {
  \new PianoStaff = "PianoStaff_pf" <<
    \new Staff = "upper" << \upper >>
    \new Dynamics = "dynamics" \dynamics
    \new Staff = "lower" <<  \lower >>
  >>
}


the beams are no longer connected.
Is there any way to overcome this problem?


The idea of using a dynamic "voice" was to get all dynamics middle-aligned 
between them...


Thank you for any hint,
Alberto
 

Re: Stem direction of grace notes when main note is stemDown

[Paul Hodges]

Gould says all grace note have stems up, except (1) when there are two parts on 
a staff, (2) in a double stemmed group, (3) when the group is on the beat, 
sharing a note head with a main note whose stem is up.


Paul



 From:   Jean Abou Samra  
 To:   Knute Snortum ,  
 Sent:   11/06/2022 23:58 
 Subject:   Re: Stem direction of grace notes when main note is stemDown 

 
 
Le 12/06/2022 à 00:52, Knute Snortum a écrit : 
> I'm confused, which often means I'm missing something, so bear with me. 
> 
> I have always thought that a grace note's stem is up no matter what. 
> But LilyPond's default is to engrave a grace note's stem down if the 
> main note's stem is down: 
> 
> { \voiceTwo c'4 c' c' \acciaccatura d'8 c'4 } 
> 
> ...which forces one to do something like this: 
> 
> { \voiceTwo c'4 c' c' \acciaccatura { \stemUp d'8 } \stemDown c'4 } 
> 
> Even then, the slur goes from the head of the grace note to the tip of 
> the stem in the main note, when I think it looks better when the slur 
> goes head to head. 
> 
> LilyPond has engraved grace notes down stem when the main note is down 
> stem since at least 2.18.2, but this seems wrong.  Shouldn't the 
> default be always stem up? 
 
 
 
What would you then do with 
 
<< 
   { g'4 g' g' \acciaccatura a'8 g'4 } 
   \\ 
   { c'4 c' c' \acciaccatura d'8 c'4 } 
 >> 
 
? 
 
I don't have Gould at hand right now, but my clue is that the 
rule reads: in single-stemmed writing, grace notes are always 
up, even if their natural direction would be down, as in 
 
{ c''4 c'' c'' \acciaccatura d''8 c''4 } 
 
In double-stemmed writing, however, I don't believe it's 
standard to do that. 
 
Best, 
Jean 
 
 
 

Email test - please ignore

[Paul Hodges]

Test, because of previous lost emails.  Please ignore


Paul

Re: Exited with return code -1073741819

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Jean Abou Samra  
Does it look deterministic when the error is in "Preprocessing graphical  
objects...", i.e. does it happen every time? 

In my case the error is always after the GLib errors which follow the "Drawing 
Systems" message.


(Except in the case of 2.23.6, which appears not to output progress messages - 
and gives a different error also after the GLib error


This is getting a bit tricky to understand without experimenting. Would  
any of you both accept to give me a VNC access over your machine so I  
can do my own tests without this email ping-pong? 

Contact me privately; my wife might like me to have a reason to be away from my 
desk for a while!



Paul

Re: Exited with return code -1073741819

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Paul Hodges  

From: David Kastrup  
Try deleting 

C:/Program Files/lilypond-2.23.6/lib/guile/2.2/ccache/ice-9/eval.go 

which sounds like an outdated compilation cache (though I have no idea 
why). 

That fixed it.

Actually, it fixed the compiled cache error, but I still have



ERROR: In procedure apply-smob/1: 
Wrong number of arguments to # 
Exited with return code 1.

The reason I didn't realise before is that the run that I had done after 
deleting the cache  spent a long time twiddling its thumbs with Frescobaldi's 
progress bar at 100% before giving the -1073741819 error.  It would appear that 
the -1073741819 error was triggered before the code giving this boot-closure 
error.


Paul

Re: Exited with return code -1073741819

[Paul Hodges]

From: David Kastrup  
Try deleting 

C:/Program Files/lilypond-2.23.6/lib/guile/2.2/ccache/ice-9/eval.go 

which sounds like an outdated compilation cache (though I have no idea 
why). 

That fixed it.


 From:   Jean Abou Samra  

Which is the one you were able to run? For 2.23.6, the binaries from  
GitLab use Guile 2, while the ones from lilypond.org use Guile 1. 
 
This is clear-cut.  Running 2.23.6 from lilypond.org I could not provoke the 
problem in two dozen runs (the maximum I got clear with 2.23.9 was one dozen 
runs), but my first run with 2.23.6 from GitLab displayed it.  I see no need to 
go back to 2.23.5 or 2.23.4.




Paul

Re: Exited with return code -1073741819

[Paul Hodges]

It's late now, so I'll leave that till tomorrow.


But I found the mingw installer for 2.23.6 instead, and using that I cannot 
invoke the crash at issue.  So from my tests the problem first arises with 
2.23.7.


Paul



 From:   David Kastrup  
 To:   Paul Hodges  
 Cc:   Jean Abou Samra , Lily Pond , 
Ahanu Banerjee  
 Sent:   10/06/2022 0:30 
 Subject:   Re: Exited with return code -1073741819 

Paul Hodges  writes: 
 
> From:   Jean Abou Samra   
> Please try the bisection between versions as suggested in my first   
> email. That would be very helpful.  
> 
> 2.23.7, 8, 9 all give the error at random intervals. 
> 
> 
> I can't test 2.23.6 because it gives me the error: 
> 
> 
> 
> ;;; note: source file C:/Program 
> Files/lilypond-2.23.6/share/guile/2.2/ice-9/eval.scm 
> ;;;       newer than compiled C:/Program 
> Files/lilypond-2.23.6/lib/guile/2.2/ccache/ice-9/eval.go 
 
Try deleting 
 
C:/Program Files/lilypond-2.23.6/lib/guile/2.2/ccache/ice-9/eval.go 
 
which sounds like an outdated compilation cache (though I have no idea 
why). 
 
--  
David Kastrup 

Re: Exited with return code -1073741819

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Jean Abou Samra  
Please try the bisection between versions as suggested in my first  
email. That would be very helpful. 

2.23.7, 8, 9 all give the error at random intervals.


I can't test 2.23.6 because it gives me the error:



;;; note: source file C:/Program 
Files/lilypond-2.23.6/share/guile/2.2/ice-9/eval.scm
;;;       newer than compiled C:/Program 
Files/lilypond-2.23.6/lib/guile/2.2/ccache/ice-9/eval.go
ERROR: In procedure apply-smob/1:
Wrong number of arguments to #
Exited with return code 1.


I can't test 2.23.5 or 4 as there are no binaries at gitlab.com


2.23.3 is what I use routinely without problems.


Paul

Re: Exited with return code -1073741819

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Jean Abou Samra  
Le 09/06/2022 à 23:31, Paul Hodges a écrit : 
> I reported this a week and a half ago, with no response. 

Could you point to the message in the list archives 
(https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/)? I may 
have bad memory, but I'm not finding it. 

Oh dear, that's because it's not there!  What I do have is my mail server's 
logs showing the Gnu mail server accepting it with a 200 when I sent it, so it 
has been either lost by that server, or rejected as spam without telling me 
(good practice would reject it without a 200).  Anyway, my message just now has 
the same information.


When you say "alternate", do you see a pattern, or does it look random?


When I was trying it, it was initially literal alternate times - but on a later 
visit it wasn't as simple - I had several runs with the crash before a 
successful one.  I haven't revisited it again, as I'm in the throes of 
finishing off my biggest project yet (like, I've now got about an hour's work 
left before the final stage of proof reading).


If there's anything I can do to help diagnose this, just let me know.  The 
LilyPond source of the project that I tested is about 33kB, generating 5 pages 
of PDF.


It's not unrelated; GLib is used by Pango, which LilyPond uses for font  
rendering. 

What I meant by unrelated is that the GLib message is referencing other 
programs on my machine, such as my password manager and others I can't recall - 
not the same program each time.   Why would that be happening at all?  I don't 
care that it's harmless, but I do care about what feels like intrusion - which 
will presumably continue even if the message gets suppressed again.


Paul