Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[David Wright]

On Fri 14 Oct 2022 at 10:24:37 (+0100), J Martin Rushton wrote:
> On Fri, 2022-10-14 at 01:51 -0700, Aaron Hill wrote:
> > On 2022-10-14 12:18 am, J Martin Rushton wrote:
> > > For some reason best known to Microsoft Windows held
> > > systems down in 32-bit node for years after they were internally
> > > 64-
> > > bit.
> > 
> > Microsoft did not "hold systems down".  In the era of XP, Windows
> > came 
> > in a 64-bit version, colloquially known as XP64.  The main issue was 
> > that most consumers at that time only had access to 32-bit hardware,
> > so 
> > it was not a priority to market 64-bit support.
> > 
> > Over time, computer manufacturers have made 64-bit hardware the
> > norm; 
> > but as anyone with IT experience knows: clients are rarely eager to 
> > spend money upgrading when things are not completely broken.  (And
> > even 
> > then when the office is on fire, some are still stingy.)  So 
> > notwithstanding the average home user facing rising costs of new 
> > computers, Microsoft has many business, educational, and government 
> > customers that would all have to get aboard the 64-bit train.
> > 
> Perhaps then trying to source XP64 would be a solution for the OP?

Paul's experience might suggest that this could be a case of
out of the frying pan into the fire, and it also doesn't help
with connectivity.

> Maybe it was the supply chain that shipped 32-bit XP on 64-bit machines
> or maybe MS didn't want to push it for some reason?  The fact remains
> that in the XP era there were plenty of 64-bit machines hamstrung by a
> 32-bit OS.

Wasn't this about the time that Microsoft lost focus on their
development of Vista? They seemed to be more intent on tinkering
about with adding morsels of Vista into XP. Eventually they had
to start over with Vista again.

But the main thing was that the money kept pouring in, regardless
of whether they were buying 32-bit or 64, so why bother. Meanwhile
(say, 2005), Linux (Debian/sarge) supported i386, m68k, alpha,
sparc, powerpc, arm, mips (both little- and big-end), ia64, hppa,
and s390, in their first release not to support the 386 processor
(that is as opposed to 486 on up).

Cheers,
David.

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[David Wright]

On Fri 14 Oct 2022 at 09:48:41 (+), Dag Bergman wrote:
> Thanks David for your comments.
> 
> As I said to Werner, I will probably have to do Lilypond work on the Windows 
> 10 machine, albeit inconvenient.

On Fri 14 Oct 2022 at 00:16:39 (+), Dag Bergman wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> I run Windows 10 on a rather powerful Dell-Precision with an i7-7700HQ CPU 
> and 32.0 GB RAM.

You could take the opportunity to install a VM running linux,
and leave the problems of LilyPond on windows/macs behind.
You never know—you might find other XP programs that you can
wean off XP onto open-source software. I'm sure there are
smart people who run linux at Oxford who could help. Many of
the IT people where I used to work were running linux systems
at home or work, and that's 20 years ago.¹

And I would assume that these people's day jobs involves helping
students and staff with their accessibility battles against the
grey on grey themes of so much current software.

¹ Personally, I avoided the university's macs and windows machines,
preferring instead to acquire any number of their 3-yr old cast-off
PCs (from administrators and secretaries) for running linux on my
desk, in the lab, and at home.

Cheers,
David.

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Paul Hodges]

From:   Nicholas Bailey  


 I see you have a Faculty of Asian and Middle Eastern  
Studies, University of Oxford email address. They shouldn't be using that OS  
any more.

When I retired from Oxford University (where I was a department network 
manager) six years ago, most departments were already detecting and forbidding 
the use of XP on the University's networks. Some departments made provision for 
a separately firewalled and restricted network for machines running 
unreplaceable laboratory equipment.



Paul

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Nicholas Bailey]

That's what to do.

XP EULA which they made you agree to:

"3. RESERVATION OF RIGHTS AND OWNERSHIP. Microsoft reserves all rights not
expressly granted to you in this EULA. The Software is protected by copyright 
and other intellectual property laws and treaties. Microsoft or its suppliers 
own the title, copyright, and other intellectual property rights in the 
Software. The Software is licensed, not sold."

So if you buy in, you have to do what they want you to, or risk losing your 
work all at once. I see you have a Faculty of Asian and Middle Eastern 
Studies, University of Oxford email address. They shouldn't be using that OS 
any more. Often, students and staff can buy MS licences for personal use 
through the institution. I can at Glasgow, but I gave up using MS when I was a 
postdoc last century, and spent most of my time trying to fix a bug in an 
adaptive optics platform I'd written which turned out to be in the MS C 
compiler. This is why open source happened.

I've only used Linux since. I don't do games, so it's a no-brainer. If I did, 
there's the dual boot / virtual machine route. You may prefer to move to a 
newer Windows, if your machine is up to it. Either way, do it soon. XP is 
unsupported, which means you shouldn't really connect it to the big bad 
internet. There are nasty viruses out there, and XP won't be protected against 
new ones any more.


On Friday, 14 October 2022 10:48:37 BST Dag Bergman wrote:
> Thanks Werner for your comments,
> 
> I will eventually test your suggestions, but the quickest way seems to do
> Lilypond work on the Windows 10 machine, albeit inconvenient.
 
> Best regards
> Dag

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Andrew Bernard]

You can make W 10 look just like XP with Stardock Window Blinds:

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/

And you can get quite similar to XP as follows:

https://winaero.com/get-windows-xp-look-in-windows-10-without-themes-or-patches/


Andrew

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Andrew Bernard]

Then don't forget VueScan. It's a thoroughly professional scanning 
application.


I'm be sure there are solutions for your printer also. What model?

Andrew


On 14/10/2022 8:48 pm, Dag Bergman wrote:

Thanks Werner for your comments,

I will eventually test your suggestions, but the quickest way seems to do 
Lilypond work on the Windows 10 machine, albeit inconvenient.

Best regards
Dag

RE: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Dag Bergman]

Thanks David for your comments.

As I said to Werner, I will probably have to do Lilypond work on the Windows 10 
machine, albeit inconvenient.

Best regards
Dag

-Original Message-
From: David Wright  
Sent: Friday, 14 October 2022 05:10
To: Dag Bergman 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

On Fri 14 Oct 2022 at 00:16:39 (+), Dag Bergman wrote:
> > On Wed 12 Oct 2022 at 23:51:22 (+), Dag Bergman wrote:
> > > I have a Windows XP computer with Lilypond 2.10.25.  It works fine with 
> > > simple program codes and advanced code developed with earlier versions of 
> > > Lilypond.  It does not work so well when I try to use a newer program 
> > > developed with a later version of Lilypond, as I get many error messages. 
> > >  I therefore tried to install LilyPond-2.22.2, which is newer than the 
> > > versions of Lilypond the program were developed with.  It does not work 
> > > at all, however, and I get the error message: "The system cannot execute 
> > > the specified program."  It does not matter what code I try to run.

If "by code" you mean LilyPond source code, then no, it doesn't
matter, because the program doesn't start running, so it doesn't
even open the input file.

> > > What is the latest version of Lilypond that actually works on Windows XP?

That's probably something you will have to determine for yourself.
The way in which the mingw binaries are built appears to have changed
over the years, so I'd be wary of jumping straight from 2.10.25
to 2.22.2.

At the very least, I'd try installing 2.10.33, which appears to be
the final version of 2.10. That will test whether your error message
is merely caused by trying to run a downloaded file without performing
some essential step first (perhaps concerning Virus protection,
unblocking downloads, etc). After all, you might have forgotten what
you had to do, long ago when you installed 2.10.25. Googling "the
system cannot execute the specified program" yields various problems
and solutions that just might be relevant.

If you can run 2.10.33, then I'd try 2.18.2, which was the stable
version of LP for a long time, and is therefore well tested. It's
a version you could probably live with for a while.

If that runs, then try 2.22.2 again, particularly if you've discovered
any step that was necessary to get the previous versions to run. The
goal at this stage is to get "GNU LilyPond 2.22.2 Processing …"
emitted, regardless of what follows, error messages or otherwise.

> > > What is the reason for this?

My reasoning for using the versions mentioned is merely that I've
observed differing structures between these binaries. I know
nothing about mingw, and my observations could be no more relevant
than a suggestion to try tasting red, yellow or green tomatoes just
on the basis of their colour.

> > > What to do about it?

That depends on whether you get different behaviours of the system
using these versions of LilyPond. Step one is checking whether you
can run /any/ downloaded lilypond file at all, regardless of version.

All the above assumes that you're sticking with your old XP machine
(I don't know how important LP is among its mix of tasks).

Cheers,
David.

RE: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Dag Bergman]

Thanks Werner for your comments,

I will eventually test your suggestions, but the quickest way seems to do 
Lilypond work on the Windows 10 machine, albeit inconvenient.

Best regards
Dag



-Original Message-
From: Werner LEMBERG  
Sent: Friday, 14 October 2022 05:12
To: Dag Bergman 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP


> I thought I had downloaded the Lilypond file from the list that you
> mentioned, but to make sure, I repeated the download and made sure I
> downloaded (lilypond-2.22.2-1.mingw.exe) from the list you suggested
> for 32 bits systems.  Unfortunately, I had the same result as the
> first time:
> 
> Error message: "The system cannot execute the specified program."  

OK.  So we have a first hint: the 32bit MinGW executable for 2.22.2
doesn't work on (your) XP at a very fundamental level.  I can now only
suggest that you search for the last executable that actually works on
Win XP.

* Just to be sure: Start with downloading the 2.10.33-1 bundle and
  check whether it works.  If it does, try 2.14.2, then 2.16.2, and so
  on.  Be careful, however, to move your original LilyPond
  installation temporarily out of the way (including binaries and
  DLLs) so that nothing gets overwritten accidentally.

* If 2.10.33-1 doesn't work, you are completely out of luck,
  unfortunately – it means that you got your binary elsewhere.  Note
  that we also have a 'cygwin' directory, with some binaries (and
  source bundles) up to 2.14.1-1, but it seems that you have to have a
  cygwin environment set up to run this, which you probably don't.


 Werner

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[J Martin Rushton]

On Fri, 2022-10-14 at 01:51 -0700, Aaron Hill wrote:
> On 2022-10-14 12:18 am, J Martin Rushton wrote:
> > For some reason best known to Microsoft Windows held
> > systems down in 32-bit node for years after they were internally
> > 64-
> > bit.
> 
> Microsoft did not "hold systems down".  In the era of XP, Windows
> came 
> in a 64-bit version, colloquially known as XP64.  The main issue was 
> that most consumers at that time only had access to 32-bit hardware,
> so 
> it was not a priority to market 64-bit support.
> 
> Over time, computer manufacturers have made 64-bit hardware the
> norm; 
> but as anyone with IT experience knows: clients are rarely eager to 
> spend money upgrading when things are not completely broken.  (And
> even 
> then when the office is on fire, some are still stingy.)  So 
> notwithstanding the average home user facing rising costs of new 
> computers, Microsoft has many business, educational, and government 
> customers that would all have to get aboard the 64-bit train.
> 
> As I recall, Windows 10 was supposed to launch as 64-bit only; yet
> even 
> it still has an installation option to run on 32-bit processors.  It
> is 
> looking like Windows 11 will be the first release to draw the line
> in 
> the sand and cut off old hardware.
> 
> 
> -- Aaron Hill
Perhaps then trying to source XP64 would be a solution for the OP?

Maybe it was the supply chain that shipped 32-bit XP on 64-bit machines
or maybe MS didn't want to push it for some reason?  The fact remains
that in the XP era there were plenty of 64-bit machines hamstrung by a
32-bit OS.
-- 
J Martin Rushton MBCS

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Paul Hodges]

I used XP64 for a while.  What killed it for me was that when XP service pack 3 
came out, many programs started to require the new facilities it included, and 
so checked for SP3 being installed.  XP64 had the same service pack, but 
because the 64bit XP had come out later than the 32bit version, it was called 
SP2, and so the programs requiring and checking for "SP3" would refuse to run 
even though the capability to run them was present!


Paul



 From:   Aaron Hill  

Microsoft did not "hold systems down".  In the era of XP, Windows came  
in a 64-bit version, colloquially known as XP64.  The main issue was  
that most consumers at that time only had access to 32-bit hardware, so  
it was not a priority to market 64-bit support. 

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Aaron Hill]

On 2022-10-14 12:18 am, J Martin Rushton wrote:

For some reason best known to Microsoft Windows held
systems down in 32-bit node for years after they were internally 64-
bit.


Microsoft did not "hold systems down".  In the era of XP, Windows came 
in a 64-bit version, colloquially known as XP64.  The main issue was 
that most consumers at that time only had access to 32-bit hardware, so 
it was not a priority to market 64-bit support.


Over time, computer manufacturers have made 64-bit hardware the norm; 
but as anyone with IT experience knows: clients are rarely eager to 
spend money upgrading when things are not completely broken.  (And even 
then when the office is on fire, some are still stingy.)  So 
notwithstanding the average home user facing rising costs of new 
computers, Microsoft has many business, educational, and government 
customers that would all have to get aboard the 64-bit train.


As I recall, Windows 10 was supposed to launch as 64-bit only; yet even 
it still has an installation option to run on 32-bit processors.  It is 
looking like Windows 11 will be the first release to draw the line in 
the sand and cut off old hardware.



-- Aaron Hill

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[J Martin Rushton]

Probably quite off the wall and not acceptable, but there are other
operating systems!  At work we regularly repurposed old 32-bit Windows
boxes as up to date 64-bit Linux boxes when a special use one-off node
was needed.  For some reason best known to Microsoft Windows held
systems down in 32-bit node for years after they were internally 64-
bit.  the other thing is that Linux generally has a lighter demand on
the system that Windows and will run nicely on some older machines. 
Come out of the dark into the light!:-)
-- 
J Martin Rushton MBCS

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Brian Barker]

At 23:51 12/10/2022 +, Dag Bergman wrote:

What is the latest version of Lilypond that actually works on Windows XP?


I happen to have an old Pentium Windows XP system from about 2004, 
which I used until about 2017. It has Lilypond 2.18.2 (the then 
"stable" version?) on it. I've checked, and it still works.


Brian Barker  

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Andrew Bernard]

Sorry, I can neither activate nor get updates for XP in my virtual 
machine with a proper licence. I'll bow out of this now.



Andrew


On 14/10/2022 3:21 pm, Andrew Bernard wrote:


OK./ I'm running up Windows XP 32 bit on a VM. I'll see if I can help out.

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Andrew Bernard]

OK./ I'm running up Windows XP 32 bit on a VM. I'll see if I can help out.

Andrew

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Werner LEMBERG]

> I thought I had downloaded the Lilypond file from the list that you
> mentioned, but to make sure, I repeated the download and made sure I
> downloaded (lilypond-2.22.2-1.mingw.exe) from the list you suggested
> for 32 bits systems.  Unfortunately, I had the same result as the
> first time:
> 
> Error message: "The system cannot execute the specified program."  

OK.  So we have a first hint: the 32bit MinGW executable for 2.22.2
doesn't work on (your) XP at a very fundamental level.  I can now only
suggest that you search for the last executable that actually works on
Win XP.

* Just to be sure: Start with downloading the 2.10.33-1 bundle and
  check whether it works.  If it does, try 2.14.2, then 2.16.2, and so
  on.  Be careful, however, to move your original LilyPond
  installation temporarily out of the way (including binaries and
  DLLs) so that nothing gets overwritten accidentally.

* If 2.10.33-1 doesn't work, you are completely out of luck,
  unfortunately – it means that you got your binary elsewhere.  Note
  that we also have a 'cygwin' directory, with some binaries (and
  source bundles) up to 2.14.1-1, but it seems that you have to have a
  cygwin environment set up to run this, which you probably don't.


 Werner

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[David Wright]

On Fri 14 Oct 2022 at 00:16:39 (+), Dag Bergman wrote:
> > On Wed 12 Oct 2022 at 23:51:22 (+), Dag Bergman wrote:
> > > I have a Windows XP computer with Lilypond 2.10.25.  It works fine with 
> > > simple program codes and advanced code developed with earlier versions of 
> > > Lilypond.  It does not work so well when I try to use a newer program 
> > > developed with a later version of Lilypond, as I get many error messages. 
> > >  I therefore tried to install LilyPond-2.22.2, which is newer than the 
> > > versions of Lilypond the program were developed with.  It does not work 
> > > at all, however, and I get the error message: "The system cannot execute 
> > > the specified program."  It does not matter what code I try to run.

If "by code" you mean LilyPond source code, then no, it doesn't
matter, because the program doesn't start running, so it doesn't
even open the input file.

> > > What is the latest version of Lilypond that actually works on Windows XP?

That's probably something you will have to determine for yourself.
The way in which the mingw binaries are built appears to have changed
over the years, so I'd be wary of jumping straight from 2.10.25
to 2.22.2.

At the very least, I'd try installing 2.10.33, which appears to be
the final version of 2.10. That will test whether your error message
is merely caused by trying to run a downloaded file without performing
some essential step first (perhaps concerning Virus protection,
unblocking downloads, etc). After all, you might have forgotten what
you had to do, long ago when you installed 2.10.25. Googling "the
system cannot execute the specified program" yields various problems
and solutions that just might be relevant.

If you can run 2.10.33, then I'd try 2.18.2, which was the stable
version of LP for a long time, and is therefore well tested. It's
a version you could probably live with for a while.

If that runs, then try 2.22.2 again, particularly if you've discovered
any step that was necessary to get the previous versions to run. The
goal at this stage is to get "GNU LilyPond 2.22.2 Processing …"
emitted, regardless of what follows, error messages or otherwise.

> > > What is the reason for this?

My reasoning for using the versions mentioned is merely that I've
observed differing structures between these binaries. I know
nothing about mingw, and my observations could be no more relevant
than a suggestion to try tasting red, yellow or green tomatoes just
on the basis of their colour.

> > > What to do about it?

That depends on whether you get different behaviours of the system
using these versions of LilyPond. Step one is checking whether you
can run /any/ downloaded lilypond file at all, regardless of version.

All the above assumes that you're sticking with your old XP machine
(I don't know how important LP is among its mix of tasks).

Cheers,
David.

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Andrew Bernard]

Just saying I'm happy to help you out with XP etc but this is probably 
getting OT, so we could do it offline if you care to.


Andrew

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Andrew Bernard]

Each to his own. But allow me to mention that VueScan supports hundreds 
of scanners, it not every scanner, and provides a very good solution to 
that if you are ever interested.


It's unfair to say Microsoft has made network file sharing difficult 
(why would they try?). Millions of users have no issue. I can point you 
to some links to set it up if you have any interest.


I run XP just fine with VirtualBox under Windows for a colleague (who 
also likes XP). Of course you need a licence to run it (XP, not 
VirtualBox). It can be done.


Andrew



On 14/10/2022 11:16 am, Dag Bergman wrote:

I run Windows XP on an old computer because I love that operating system

RE: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Dag Bergman]

Thanks again Werner for your reply.

You stated in an earlier email: "You are trying to use a 64bit program in a 
32bit environment, which
always fails."

I thought I had downloaded the Lilypond file from the list that you mentioned, 
but to make sure, I repeated the download and made sure I downloaded 
(lilypond-2.22.2-1.mingw.exe) from the list you suggested for 32 bits systems.  
Unfortunately, I had the same result as the first time:

Error message: "The system cannot execute the specified program."  

Accordingly, it appears that if your latest statement (*All* versions given in 
my link are 32bit versions) is correct, I cannot have tried to use a 64bit 
program in a 32bit environment, as far as I can see, so there would have to be 
a different reason for that error message.

Thanks for all your kind help.

Dag



-Original Message-
From: Werner LEMBERG  
Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2022 15:17
To: Dag Bergman 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP


> How do I know which of the versions listed and offered for download
> are for 32 bits or 64 bits systems?

*All* versions given in my link are 32bit versions.  Recent 64bit
versions are provided on gitlab.  Note that we no longer provide 32bit
versions.


Werner





-Original Message-
From: Dag Bergman  
Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2022 15:02
To: Werner LEMBERG 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: RE: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

Thanks Werner for your quick and elaborate reply.

I guess you are correct that the error messages I received are due to changes 
in the syntax between versions of Lilypond.  The problem is that using 
`convert-ly` would probably only work if running an old script with a later 
version of Lilypond.  In my case, I was running a script that was made with a 
later version of Lilypond than the one I had installed, so I guess `convert-ly` 
would not solve that problem.  I tried to solve it by installing a later 
version of Lilypond, but that was when I got the error message: "The system 
cannot execute the specified program."

If you are right that the file I downloaded from the list you mentioned is for 
64 bit systems, the question still is:

How do I know which of the versions listed and offered for download are for 32 
bits or 64 bits systems?

My old version, Lilypond 2.10.25, does work, so 32 bits versions have been 
created and offered in the past, so how to find the latest of those?

Thanks for your kind help.

Dag




-Original Message-
From: Werner LEMBERG  
Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2022 06:35
To: Dag Bergman 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP


> I have a Windows XP computer with Lilypond 2.10.25.  It works fine
> with simple program codes and advanced code developed with earlier
> versions of Lilypond.  It does not work so well when I try to use a
> newer program developed with a later version of Lilypond, as I get
> many error messages.

I guess this is mainly due to syntax changes in more recent LilyPond
versions.  Normally, you would run `convert-ly` (which is a Python
script) to update your the source code.

> I therefore tried to install LilyPond-2.22.2, which is newer than
> the versions of Lilypond the program were developed with.  It does
> not work at all, however, and I get the error message: "The system
> cannot execute the specified program."  It does not matter what code
> I try to run.
> 
> What is the reason for this?

You are trying to use a 64bit program in a 32bit environment, which
always fails.

> What to do about it?

To get the most recent version I guess you have to compile LilyPond
*and all its dependencies* by yourself - and I'm not sure whether this
is possible at all.  Contrary to MacPorts, which supports quite
ancient Mac computers, I'm not aware of a similar environment for
Windows XP that provides many Unix packages for Windows.

A fundamental problem is that the memory provided by 32bit
applications is often not sufficient for larger LilyPond scores.  This
is not a problem on Windows XP per se but with *all* 32bit versions of
LilyPond.  This is one of the reasons for no longer providing 32bit
binaries for LilyPond.

In general, AFAIK, we have never tried to build LilyPond directly on
Windows, not to mention Windows XP.  Instead, we always did (and still
do) a cross compilation on GNU/Linux.

> What is the latest version of Lilypond that actually works on
> Windows XP?

Good question.  You might try the last 32bit binaries, which can be
found at

  http://lilypond.org/download/binaries/mingw/


 Werner

RE: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Dag Bergman]

Hi David,

Thanks for your reply.

I run Windows 10 on a rather powerful Dell-Precision with an i7-7700HQ CPU and 
32.0 GB RAM.

I run Windows XP on an old computer because I love that operating system as it 
has a superior user interface to Windows 10.  XP makes much better use of the 
screen surface.  It has much better design of windows with a color pattern that 
makes it easy to see where one window ends and another window begins.  In 10, I 
very often click on the wrong thing because I don't see where the border is.  
There are many other user interface related reasons,  including the waste of 
time having to relearn how to do things or even never manage to figure out how 
to do things in 10 that were very easy to do in XP.

Other important reasons include that my expensive and well working side 
hardware (such as expensive scanners and printers) don't work with 10.

Finally, many of my favourite programs (that I know very well how to use) do 
not work on 10.  Some may have a later version that works on 10, but then at a 
cost to purchase and an even higher cost to learn to use, and often with loss 
of useful functionality.

I also failed to set up a virtual computer with XP on my Windows 10 computer.  
I have succeeded to run the Windows XP computer from inside the Windows 10 
computer, but...

I can't easily transfer files between my two computers, and have to use a 
USB-stick, as Microsoft has done everything it can to prevent easy sharing of 
files over a local network as I used to be able to do.  Accordingly, I wish to 
do my Lilypond work on the computer where I do my other related work on music.

Best regards

Dag




-Original Message-
From: David Wright  
Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2022 17:25
To: Dag Bergman 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

On Wed 12 Oct 2022 at 23:51:22 (+), Dag Bergman wrote:
> 
> I have a Windows XP computer with Lilypond 2.10.25.  It works fine with 
> simple program codes and advanced code developed with earlier versions of 
> Lilypond.  It does not work so well when I try to use a newer program 
> developed with a later version of Lilypond, as I get many error messages.  I 
> therefore tried to install LilyPond-2.22.2, which is newer than the versions 
> of Lilypond the program were developed with.  It does not work at all, 
> however, and I get the error message: "The system cannot execute the 
> specified program."  It does not matter what code I try to run.
> 
> What is the reason for this?

Can I take a step back and turn your question around—why are you
running XP at all? Presumably there's some important reason, but
surely it can't mean that this is the only machine available to you
(which would imply that you connect it to the internet).

> What to do about it?

It may depend on your answer to the previous question, and what the
machine is—you haven't said.

> What is the latest version of Lilypond that actually works on Windows XP?

Whether that matters depends on your answers to the previous two …

Cheers,
David.

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Andrew Bernard]

Still curious now about XP. There's no certainty next versions will work.

Andrew

On 14/10/2022 10:42 am, Dag Bergman wrote:

Thanks Karlin and Michael for your kind replies, and for considering how to 
test Lilypond versions on a Windows XP machine.

It appears to be far too complicated for you to do that and I only expected 
people to take the trouble to reply in case they already knew what was going 
on.  Thank you, though, for even considering to test, but I don't expect you to 
take that trouble.

RE: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Dag Bergman]

Thanks Karlin and Michael for your kind replies, and for considering how to 
test Lilypond versions on a Windows XP machine.

It appears to be far too complicated for you to do that and I only expected 
people to take the trouble to reply in case they already knew what was going 
on.  Thank you, though, for even considering to test, but I don't expect you to 
take that trouble.

To clarify, I had no problem to download the installation file from the 
Lilypond website, and it installed nicely and indicated with a message to that 
effect when it was ready.

My problem appeared when I called the program with a simple string, such as:

"Lilypond test1.ly" at the command prompt, which had worked fine with the 
earlier version (that had been fully removed before I installed the later 
version).

Best regards

Dag





-Original Message-
From: Karlin High  
Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2022 16:36
To: Michael Hendry 
Cc: Dag Bergman ; lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

On 10/13/2022 10:27 AM, Michael Hendry wrote:
> run legacy software on a Windows XP virtual machine

That reminds me -- Windows 7 Pro with its XP Mode based on Microsoft 
Virtual PC, that would be less of an ask.

I have remote access to one of those, but it is at a customer's place 
and is dedicated to doing batch-copying of files into NETBEUI shares for 
CNC controls still using that protocol. I better not use it for this 
testing effort. ;-)
-- 
Karlin High
Missouri, USA


-


-Original Message-
From: Karlin High  
Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2022 15:36
To: Dag Bergman ; lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

On 10/12/2022 6:51 PM, Dag Bergman wrote:
> I get the error message: “The system cannot execute the specified program.”

This seems like a pretty broad error. I see mentions of needing 
Right-Click -> Properties -> Unblock, to allow a downloaded executable 
to run.

Other cases involve system files or runtime libraries of some sort...

<https://postgrespro.com/list/thread-id/1508411>

I am afraid sorting out issues like this is going to "come with the 
territory" of making operating systems keep working long after being 
abandoned by their producers. Sometimes people have major reasons for 
doing so, as in "hard binding to big equipment that costs more than a 
house to upgrade." When asking for help with them, though, the starting 
assumption in response will usually be that anything not working can be 
blamed on the expired system.

I could check my "fencerow" to see if any startable Windows XP machines 
remain in it for helping test this, but keep expectations near zero and 
allow at least a week.
-- 
Karlin High
Missouri

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Andrew Bernard]

Hello Dag,

As mentioned in my post Windows XP is way, way past any support from 
Microsoft (EOL 2009!). A couple of others have queried why it is 
necessary for you to be running this system also. Before people go to 
extraordinary lengths to source XP machines to try to help, would you 
ever so kindly explain the situation for us? If you simply must have XP, 
you could run it in a VM on a more recent Windows version. Then your 
Lilypond problems go away. Do let us know.



Andrew


On 14/10/2022 3:24 am, David Wright wrote:

Can I take a step back and turn your question around—why are you
running XP at all? Presumably there's some important reason, but
surely it can't mean that this is the only machine available to you
(which would imply that you connect it to the internet).

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[David Wright]

On Wed 12 Oct 2022 at 23:51:22 (+), Dag Bergman wrote:
> 
> I have a Windows XP computer with Lilypond 2.10.25.  It works fine with 
> simple program codes and advanced code developed with earlier versions of 
> Lilypond.  It does not work so well when I try to use a newer program 
> developed with a later version of Lilypond, as I get many error messages.  I 
> therefore tried to install LilyPond-2.22.2, which is newer than the versions 
> of Lilypond the program were developed with.  It does not work at all, 
> however, and I get the error message: "The system cannot execute the 
> specified program."  It does not matter what code I try to run.
> 
> What is the reason for this?

Can I take a step back and turn your question around—why are you
running XP at all? Presumably there's some important reason, but
surely it can't mean that this is the only machine available to you
(which would imply that you connect it to the internet).

> What to do about it?

It may depend on your answer to the previous question, and what the
machine is—you haven't said.

> What is the latest version of Lilypond that actually works on Windows XP?

Whether that matters depends on your answers to the previous two …

Cheers,
David.

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Karlin High]

On 10/13/2022 10:27 AM, Michael Hendry wrote:

run legacy software on a Windows XP virtual machine


That reminds me -- Windows 7 Pro with its XP Mode based on Microsoft 
Virtual PC, that would be less of an ask.


I have remote access to one of those, but it is at a customer's place 
and is dedicated to doing batch-copying of files into NETBEUI shares for 
CNC controls still using that protocol. I better not use it for this 
testing effort. ;-)

--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Michael Hendry]

On 13 Oct 2022, at 15:35, Karlin High  wrote:

> 
> On 10/12/2022 6:51 PM, Dag Bergman wrote:
>> I get the error message: “The system cannot execute the specified program.”
> 
> This seems like a pretty broad error. I see mentions of needing Right-Click 
> -> Properties -> Unblock, to allow a downloaded executable to run.
> 
> Other cases involve system files or runtime libraries of some sort...
> 
> 
> 
> I am afraid sorting out issues like this is going to "come with the 
> territory" of making operating systems keep working long after being 
> abandoned by their producers. Sometimes people have major reasons for doing 
> so, as in "hard binding to big equipment that costs more than a house to 
> upgrade." When asking for help with them, though, the starting assumption in 
> response will usually be that anything not working can be blamed on the 
> expired system.
> 
> I could check my "fencerow" to see if any startable Windows XP machines 
> remain in it for helping test this, but keep expectations near zero and allow 
> at least a week.
> -- 
> Karlin High
> Missouri, USA
> 

I uses Parallels Desktop on my (64-bit) iMac to run legacy software on a 
Windows XP virtual machine to access data which I can’t readily transfer to an 
up-to-date requirement.

I have downloaded the lilypond-2.23.6-1.mingw.exe file but I’m not how to 
install it to test whether it works.

Michael

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Karlin High]

On 10/12/2022 6:51 PM, Dag Bergman wrote:

I get the error message: “The system cannot execute the specified program.”


This seems like a pretty broad error. I see mentions of needing 
Right-Click -> Properties -> Unblock, to allow a downloaded executable 
to run.


Other cases involve system files or runtime libraries of some sort...



I am afraid sorting out issues like this is going to "come with the 
territory" of making operating systems keep working long after being 
abandoned by their producers. Sometimes people have major reasons for 
doing so, as in "hard binding to big equipment that costs more than a 
house to upgrade." When asking for help with them, though, the starting 
assumption in response will usually be that anything not working can be 
blamed on the expired system.


I could check my "fencerow" to see if any startable Windows XP machines 
remain in it for helping test this, but keep expectations near zero and 
allow at least a week.

--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Werner LEMBERG]

> How do I know which of the versions listed and offered for download
> are for 32 bits or 64 bits systems?

*All* versions given in my link are 32bit versions.  Recent 64bit
versions are provided on gitlab.  Note that we no longer provide 32bit
versions.


Werner

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Hendursaga]

Andrew Bernard  writes:

> Not exactly a supported platform nowadays. [...]

I would be curious if (older) LilyPond versions would work under ReactOS[1]..

~ Hendursaga

[1] https://reactos.org/

RE: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Dag Bergman]

Thanks Karlin for your quick reply.

Yes, I used the first link you asked about and found it in the list that your 
second link leads to.

I will try the other two versions you suggested, but if all versions in that 
list are only for 64 bits system (if I understood Werner's reply correctly), 
they will not work either.  I clearly need to get hold of the latest 32 bits 
version, and I don't know which that is and how to get it.

Best regards

Dag


-Original Message-
From: Karlin High  
Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2022 04:33
To: Dag Bergman 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

Which link did you use? This one?

<http://lilypond.org/download/binaries/mingw/lilypond-2.22.2-1.mingw.exe>

The full collection of past downloads is here:

<http://lilypond.org/download/binaries/mingw/>

Try 2.20 or 2.18 if a fresh download of 2.22 doesn't work.
-- 
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

RE: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Dag Bergman]

Thanks Werner for your quick and elaborate reply.

I guess you are correct that the error messages I received are due to changes 
in the syntax between versions of Lilypond.  The problem is that using 
`convert-ly` would probably only work if running an old script with a later 
version of Lilypond.  In my case, I was running a script that was made with a 
later version of Lilypond than the one I had installed, so I guess `convert-ly` 
would not solve that problem.  I tried to solve it by installing a later 
version of Lilypond, but that was when I got the error message: "The system 
cannot execute the specified program."

If you are right that the file I downloaded from the list you mentioned is for 
64 bit systems, the question still is:

How do I know which of the versions listed and offered for download are for 32 
bits or 64 bits systems?

My old version, Lilypond 2.10.25, does work, so 32 bits versions have been 
created and offered in the past, so how to find the latest of those?

Thanks for your kind help.

Dag




-Original Message-
From: Werner LEMBERG  
Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2022 06:35
To: Dag Bergman 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP


> I have a Windows XP computer with Lilypond 2.10.25.  It works fine
> with simple program codes and advanced code developed with earlier
> versions of Lilypond.  It does not work so well when I try to use a
> newer program developed with a later version of Lilypond, as I get
> many error messages.

I guess this is mainly due to syntax changes in more recent LilyPond
versions.  Normally, you would run `convert-ly` (which is a Python
script) to update your the source code.

> I therefore tried to install LilyPond-2.22.2, which is newer than
> the versions of Lilypond the program were developed with.  It does
> not work at all, however, and I get the error message: "The system
> cannot execute the specified program."  It does not matter what code
> I try to run.
> 
> What is the reason for this?

You are trying to use a 64bit program in a 32bit environment, which
always fails.

> What to do about it?

To get the most recent version I guess you have to compile LilyPond
*and all its dependencies* by yourself – and I'm not sure whether this
is possible at all.  Contrary to MacPorts, which supports quite
ancient Mac computers, I'm not aware of a similar environment for
Windows XP that provides many Unix packages for Windows.

A fundamental problem is that the memory provided by 32bit
applications is often not sufficient for larger LilyPond scores.  This
is not a problem on Windows XP per se but with *all* 32bit versions of
LilyPond.  This is one of the reasons for no longer providing 32bit
binaries for LilyPond.

In general, AFAIK, we have never tried to build LilyPond directly on
Windows, not to mention Windows XP.  Instead, we always did (and still
do) a cross compilation on GNU/Linux.

> What is the latest version of Lilypond that actually works on
> Windows XP?

Good question.  You might try the last 32bit binaries, which can be
found at

  http://lilypond.org/download/binaries/mingw/


 Werner

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Andrew Bernard]

Windows XP mainstream end date April 14 2009, extended end date April 8 
2014.


Not exactly a supported platform nowadays. No possibility for you to 
upgrade? At the very least you would get support for Lilypond from the 
list, and be able to use 64 bit. Not too many members would have XP 
machines sitting around to test on. so answers would be mostly 
speculative. I don't think you can really expect detailed Lilypond dev 
support for OS's that have been long discontinued by the maker.


Andrew

On 13/10/2022 10:51 am, Dag Bergman wrote:


I have a Windows XP computer with Lilypond 2.10.25.

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Werner LEMBERG]

> I have a Windows XP computer with Lilypond 2.10.25.  It works fine
> with simple program codes and advanced code developed with earlier
> versions of Lilypond.  It does not work so well when I try to use a
> newer program developed with a later version of Lilypond, as I get
> many error messages.

I guess this is mainly due to syntax changes in more recent LilyPond
versions.  Normally, you would run `convert-ly` (which is a Python
script) to update your the source code.

> I therefore tried to install LilyPond-2.22.2, which is newer than
> the versions of Lilypond the program were developed with.  It does
> not work at all, however, and I get the error message: "The system
> cannot execute the specified program."  It does not matter what code
> I try to run.
> 
> What is the reason for this?

You are trying to use a 64bit program in a 32bit environment, which
always fails.

> What to do about it?

To get the most recent version I guess you have to compile LilyPond
*and all its dependencies* by yourself – and I'm not sure whether this
is possible at all.  Contrary to MacPorts, which supports quite
ancient Mac computers, I'm not aware of a similar environment for
Windows XP that provides many Unix packages for Windows.

A fundamental problem is that the memory provided by 32bit
applications is often not sufficient for larger LilyPond scores.  This
is not a problem on Windows XP per se but with *all* 32bit versions of
LilyPond.  This is one of the reasons for no longer providing 32bit
binaries for LilyPond.

In general, AFAIK, we have never tried to build LilyPond directly on
Windows, not to mention Windows XP.  Instead, we always did (and still
do) a cross compilation on GNU/Linux.

> What is the latest version of Lilypond that actually works on
> Windows XP?

Good question.  You might try the last 32bit binaries, which can be
found at

  http://lilypond.org/download/binaries/mingw/


 Werner

Re: LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Karlin High]

Which link did you use? This one?



The full collection of past downloads is here:



Try 2.20 or 2.18 if a fresh download of 2.22 doesn't work.
-- 
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

LilyPond-2.22.2 does not work on Windows XP

[Dag Bergman]

Hi,

I have a Windows XP computer with Lilypond 2.10.25.  It works fine with simple 
program codes and advanced code developed with earlier versions of Lilypond.  
It does not work so well when I try to use a newer program developed with a 
later version of Lilypond, as I get many error messages.  I therefore tried to 
install LilyPond-2.22.2, which is newer than the versions of Lilypond the 
program were developed with.  It does not work at all, however, and I get the 
error message: "The system cannot execute the specified program."  It does not 
matter what code I try to run.

What is the reason for this?

What to do about it?

What is the latest version of Lilypond that actually works on Windows XP?

Wilbour