Re: linux book
On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, the rookie wrote: :hi, can someone recommend a book to start using linux? :(and that's mean: programming in linux, communication :stuff, and the shell commands) : Programming: C programming language second edition is a good book to start programming using C . This book is so wonderful, it deserved a name of "New Testament". Then there goes M. Bach's "Architecture of UNIX OS" and "The Magic Garden explained" - both of them explain architecture of Unix - SVR3 and 4BSD. To start program Guile, start with Daniel Friedman's Little SCHEMEr (or Little LISPER), read Structure and Interpretationn of computer programs (I do not like this book, but everyone else does) and wind up with "Essential of Programming Languages" (my favorite, but many find it too deep). I would reccomend learning Scheme and Perl together as two different subsets of LISP. There are many good introductions to Perl, but one of the finer books (after you are able to lisp a little at perl) is "Advanced Perl Programming (O'Reily). This book is a great complement to EOPL. The trick with interpreted languages is that many times interpreted languages (well, there are no interpreted languages or compiled languages, since a language is only a means for writing expreions. I mean languages that _usually_ are represented as environment with interpreter, like LISP, sh and perl) are languages of higher level than C, so there are many places where your C knoledge wont help. network stuff - administration : "UNIX Systems administrator handbook" by Evi Nemeth et al. SAG (System Admin Guide) and NAG (Network Admin Guide) are very useful, those are parts of LDP, and you can get them at ILUG homepage. shell: I would suggest reading and understanding EOPL and then looking briefly at bash manual. Omer Mussaev tel: 051308214 | finger for public key = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux book
Omer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, the rookie wrote: :hi, can someone recommend a book to start using linux? :(and that's mean: programming in linux, communication :stuff, and the shell commands) : Programming: C programming language second edition is a good book to start programming using C . This book is so wonderful, it deserved a name of "New Testament". Then there goes M. Bach's "Architecture of UNIX OS" and "The Magic Garden explained" - both of them explain architecture of Unix - SVR3 and 4BSD. None of the books above explains 4.xBSD. The "Magic Garden" book deals with pure SVR4. For BSD, check out "The design and implementation of 4.4BSD Operating System." As for UNIX programming, I'd not recommend starting with the books on UNIX above (of course, KR is a must), but to go for Stevens's (RIP) books: - "Advanced Programming in UNIX Environment" (aka APUE) - "Unix Network Programming" vv1,2 (aka UNPv1, UNPv2) To start program Guile, start with Daniel Friedman's Little SCHEMEr (or Little LISPER), read Structure and Interpretationn of computer programs (I do not like this book, but everyone else does) and wind up with "Essential of Programming Languages" (my favorite, but many find it too deep). I would reccomend learning Scheme and Perl together as two different subsets of LISP. There are many good introductions to Perl, but one of the Cough, choke Since when is Perl a "subset of LISP?!" McCarthy would sure laugh his guts off if he heard that... -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux book
On 11 Sep 1999, Alexander L. Belikoff wrote: :None of the books above explains 4.xBSD. The "Magic Garden" book deals :with pure SVR4. For BSD, check out "The design and implementation of :4.4BSD Operating System." My apologies for misinformation. : :Cough, choke Since when is Perl a "subset of LISP?!" McCarthy would :sure laugh his guts off if he heard that... Since perl supports closures, anonimous functions and first order functions, it is surely closer to LISP than to C. McCarthy laghed when he heard about LISP interpreter, so I suppose he would laugth here ... Omer Mussaev tel: 051308214 | finger for public key = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux book
On 11 Sep 1999, Alexander L. Belikoff wrote: :Omer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : :Cough, choke Since when is Perl a "subset of LISP?!" McCarthy would : :sure laugh his guts off if he heard that... : Since perl supports closures, anonimous functions and first order : functions, it is surely closer to LISP than to C. McCarthy laghed when he : heard about LISP interpreter, so I suppose he would laugth here ... : :All the features above make Perl "somehow similar in features to LISP" :- and no way closer. It is not based on the LISP syntax and it is a :LISPer's worst nightmare in the sense of "syntactic sugar to syntax :rules" ratio... In fact, TCL in that sense is much closer to LISP than :Perl The point was that the same knoledge may be useful when writing good LISP coode and when writing good Perl code. And EOPL is very good for understading interpreters in general, including Perl. Of course, syntax is different. And of course, there is always dynamic binding in Perl, and even when you use my syntax of perl, there is no easy way to achieve shallow binding of lexical variables. When I said "subset", I intennded to "Perl supports a subset of programming paradygms native to LISP world, such as closures, lambda expressions, ability to write referrentially transparennt code (no side effects) etc", not "Perl, like Scheme, is a subset of LISP, that differs from the latter in x, y z". Moreover, there are many other languages, similar to LISP in their representation of data, though quite different in syntax: ML and Haskell come to mind. Do not forget that Perl uses a viirtual machine and garbage collection, BTW. This makes it another bit like LISP. This microthread was completely out of scope of this list, and I do not think that we should continue discussion online. If anyone wants to say something about it, feel free to send me mail, at worst I"ll ignore it quietly:) : :-- :Alexander L. Belikoff :Bloomberg L.P. :[EMAIL PROTECTED] : := :To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with :the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command :echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : Omer Mussaev tel: 051308214 | finger for public key = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux book
Omer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do not forget that Perl uses a viirtual machine and garbage collection, BTW. This makes it another bit like LISP. LISP doesn't have a "virtual machine." CLTL2 and ANSI CL leave the actual representation of compiled code up to the implementation. This usually boils down to two major approaches: byte compilation (note, the latter does not necessarily imply the VM; in most cases it is just "fast loaded" stuff) or compilation to native object code. Some advanced LISP implementations for large UNIX machines do that (Harlequin, AFAIR). Anyway... -- Alexander L. Belikoff Bloomberg L.P. [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux book
On Fri Sep 10 23:09:04 1999, Nimrod Mesika wrote about "Re: linux book": the rookie wrote: hi, can someone recommend a book to start using linux? (and that's mean: programming in linux, communication stuff, and the shell commands) Not a Linux specific boot but a good reading if you want to understand the philosophy of the UNIX operating system: "The UNIX Programming Environment" by Kernighan and Pike. A bit dated but still a good book. This is indeed a wonderful book, and in fact this is the book I learned UNIX from, 14 years ago. But saying it's "a bit dated" is an an understatement :) Even then, on ATT's 7th edition research UNIX, the book was a bit dated. (I'm assuming there isn't a new edition of that book - as far as I know there isn't. I wonder if it's still in print). For example, I remember it explains how the "#" character is used to delete a character, and it took me a while to understand that the "backspace" key actually does that, and that the "#" key had been used before, when there weren't CRT terminals, but rather printers and keyboard, and printers couldn't erase a character, so a "#" was used to signify a deleted character. Other things of great importance that have happened since this book was written: 1) job control was added to Unix 2) newer shells (ksh, zsh, and even the abominable tcsh) have many new features 3) The C section teaches KR C, which is different in many respects from the current ANSI C implementations. 4) Some new programs, such telnet, ftp, and more, should definately be taught to beginners 5) X-windows came along. So, for a UNIX beginner, I'd probably recommend getting much more modern book - but try to get one from a respected author, and not some local crap written in Hebrew by some guy with 2 years programming expereince. It's still possible to learn UNIX from that book today (someone I know learned UNIX from it about 3 years ago), but you'd constantly have to watch out for things that have changed since. Non-beginners should definately read this book - even if only for its historical significance. When looking for a more modern book, you should look for books with a similar scope as that of "The Unix Programming Environment", i.e., you should look for a book which explains at least: 1. Getting started 2. Using the shell and basic commands 3. Basic shell commands for networking and windowing. 4. Programming the shell and/or other scripting languages (awk, perl, etc.) 5. Programming in C. 6. Other topics relevant to C programming: yacc, and maybe even socket programming, X-windows programming, etc. If someone can give a pointer to such a "Modern Unix Programming Environment" book, it would be very nice. I'm sorry I don't know of any such book to recommend. The original "Unix Programming Environment" was a very special book in that it can take an absolute beginner (in fact, when I first started reading it, I didn't know programming in any programming language), and after reading the whole book, you really know *a lot* about the Unix operating system and most its important parts. It also includes example programs which were *extremely* useful, some I use to this day: 1. I still use Brian Kernighan's improved "cal" script to this day. 2. I improved considerably their 'get' and 'put' scripts to make a complete source-code control system which I sometimes use even today (when I think I won't need all the power of RCS). 3. I improved considerably on their 'hoc' high-order-calculator, and now I have a suphisticated interpreter for numerical expressions, function evaluation, etc., which I use to this day instead of a simple calculator. Kernighan probably won't recognize my hoc if he saw it, with autoconf configuration, dozens of new operators and functions, local variables, etc., but the base for my hoc is from his book. Good luck and Shana Tova, Nadav. -- Nadav Har'El | ## # | -- Sorry if Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | # # # | you can't Department of Mathematics, Technion | # # # | read Hebrew. Israel Institute of Technology | # ## | Nadav. ;) WWW page: http://harel.org.il/nadav ICQ #13349191 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linux book
if your new to linux and want to learn shell command for user and some linux background, you might try a book by hod-ami call something like linux the new world. its in plain hebrew and is a good start for new people. it has red-hat linux 5.2 attached and installation guide in hebrew (there are a few errors in the hebrew installation guide). yours, alon kadury From: the rookie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: linux book Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:02:29 -0700 (PDT) hi, can someone recommend a book to start using linux? (and that's mean: programming in linux, communication stuff, and the shell commands) i'll will thank you for the rest of your life. __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
