Re: ot: isps
Oleg, first thanks for your answer. AFAIK, this DPI can block voip application like Skype. That's an on-going war, similar to the war between P2P applications and DPI. It's not limited to cellular companies, of course. There is still a little difference here, I believe, with cellular companies. Cellular companies get their profits mostly I believe with telephony (the internet service in cellular is quite new). So Skype (or other voip applications) on a cellular device using internet is a real threat on their profits. Not all ISPs, on the other hand, deal with telephony, and most of their profits are from internet services, I believe. If this is true, than around the globe, it seems that blocking VOIP traffic with DPI is more important to cellular companies supplying internet service than to ISPs. Or am I wrong? Regards, Rafi Gordon ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
i want a new Internet connection for my home. Stay away from Netvision. While their network is the best in Israel when it works, their customer support is terrible, and after experiencing three days of downtime in January I moved to Bezeq Beinleumi. Netvision does not see three days of downtime as reason fit to release me from my one-year contract with them, in fact, of the remaining 400 NIS on the contract they wanted 800 NIS to terminate it early! Netvision has proven that they want our money, not our business. Don't give them either. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:34 PM, nir grinberg n...@grinberg.org wrote: The current issue with the providers are the fact that their data network coverage is not similar to their GSM coverage. in many locations you will be able to talk via GSM, but receive a very poor data connection. That's because there are three different networks involved here. Orange runs 3 networks. a 900mHz GSM (voice and data up to 14.4kbps if they allow it), 1800Mhz (voice, 14.4k data and higher speed data (GPRS?) ) and a 2.1gHz 3G network. The 900 mHz network covers all of the State of Israel and the territories, for legal reasons it does not cover the PA (nudge, nudge, wink wink). The 1800 mHz network has a shorter range for each cell and covers less. With the shorter wavelength there are more dead spots. The 3g network is similar to the 1.8gHz network in coverage, I have no idea about the number of cells. Cell-Com has an 800mHz D-AMPS network (voice and 9.6k data if they allow it), an 1800mHz GSM network (voice, 14.4k data and higher speed data) and a 2.1gHz 3G network. Coverage is similar to Orange's. As far as signal path, the 1800mHz and G3 networks have the same problems with signals being stopped by things like paper, sandwich type wood, trees, etc that wifi has. In fact, it's best to think of them as wifi on steroids when it comes to propigation and coverage. They also suffer from the effects of multipath (reflected signals) and the fact that the least power of a signal is at a multiple of half of the wavelength aka nulls. So you can get a good signal at one location and 6 inches farther away from the cell get nothing useable. It also suffers from the effects of antenna orientation (polarization) so a vertical antenna will get 100 times the signal as a horizontal one. So not only is it possible to be out of coverage of the data network, it's easily possible to be in a bad location. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem, Israel ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
Hi, Skype is a different issue since it communicate via port 80, though need a much more advance management tools to be filtered (what's called Traffic shaping). Are you sure about it ? What do you mean by that ?? Does Skype send the **Audio** in ***TCP*** port 80 ?! Can TCP do the job for VOIP audio application across the internet? As far as I know, all traditional VOIP which run across the Intenet use UDP for audio (and most of the use SIP). TCP is much heavier, sincr it is stream-based; it has retransmission, congesion control, many timers and is very complex. When using TCP, you are most likely to encounter delays and a bad quality. I know that there were trials to use TCP in VOIP applications with certain adjustements, but they did not succeed. Regards, Dan ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
2009/4/23 Geoffrey Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com: That's because there are three different networks involved here. Orange runs 3 networks. a 900mHz GSM (voice and data up to 14.4kbps if they allow it), 1800Mhz (voice, 14.4k data and higher speed data (GPRS?) ) and a 2.1gHz 3G network. The 900 mHz network covers all of the State of Israel and the territories, for legal reasons it does not cover the PA (nudge, nudge, wink wink). The 1800 mHz network has a shorter range for each cell and covers less. With the shorter wavelength there are more dead spots. The 3g network is similar to the 1.8gHz network in coverage, I have no idea about the number of cells. I'm not going to dispute Geofrrey's (proved) knowledge when he speaks of something, but my personal experience in the last four weeks of visiting Israel is that once I got the Orange 3.5G SIM in a Nokia E71 (quad-band, I think it's 850/900/1800/2100) and paid 80 NIS for 5Gb I managed to receive data signal wherever I went in Israel (between Ashdod/Mazkeret-Batya to Megido and Beit-Lechem Haglilit). Speed is also very good, as far as I can tell it's better than what I get in Australia. Maybe because their data network is not overloaded yet? One thing I think that I noticed is that the battery runs faster too - I have to refill it every day in order to have enough juice to finish the next day. In Oz I can run for almost a week without refilling the battery. I guess that maybe it has to do with fewer towers which require the phone to increase its own signal strength, but I'm not an expert. --Amos ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
Hi Erez (and all)! On Tuesday 21 April 2009 11:10:48 Erez D wrote: hi i want a new Internet connection for my home. first i thought of trying the cellular companies. any experience with them ? are they good ? i am still connected to bbl+hot. i experience problems in creating a connection. one of every 10 connections doesn't open, and i need to reload the page ... are other experiencing the same problems with them ? As I mentioned here: http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il/msg54968.html I've been encountering similar problems with Bezeqint-on-ADSL. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Freecell Solver - http://fc-solve.berlios.de/ God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we read. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
Try: http://speed.hot.net.il/script/DownloadSpeed.asp And check your effective bandwidth. Also check packet loss statistics with ping and/or hping. With this information you will be able to get decent support from bbl. # On Tuesday 21 April 2009, Erez D wrote: hi i want a new Internet connection for my home. first i thought of trying the cellular companies. any experience with them ? are they good ? i am still connected to bbl+hot. i experience problems in creating a connection. one of every 10 connections doesn't open, and i need to reload the page ... are other experiencing the same problems with them ? 10x, erez ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@iglu.org.il wrote: Hi Erez (and all)! On Tuesday 21 April 2009 11:10:48 Erez D wrote: hi i want a new Internet connection for my home. first i thought of trying the cellular companies. any experience with them ? are they good ? i am still connected to bbl+hot. i experience problems in creating a connection. one of every 10 connections doesn't open, and i need to reload the page ... are other experiencing the same problems with them ? As I mentioned here: http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il/msg54968.html were you able to solve it ? did disabling ipv6 work ? I've been encountering similar problems with Bezeqint-on-ADSL. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Freecell Solver - http://fc-solve.berlios.de/ God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we read. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
i have no problems with download speed my ping is acting strange. it works for the first N icmps (N is a number between 30 and 150, changes every time), then it stops working. i spoke with bbl - they can find no problems although i (bbl+hot) and my mom (bbl+adsl) have the same problem On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Dotan Shavit do...@shavitos.com wrote: Try: http://speed.hot.net.il/script/DownloadSpeed.asp And check your effective bandwidth. Also check packet loss statistics with ping and/or hping. With this information you will be able to get decent support from bbl. # On Tuesday 21 April 2009, Erez D wrote: hi i want a new Internet connection for my home. first i thought of trying the cellular companies. any experience with them ? are they good ? i am still connected to bbl+hot. i experience problems in creating a connection. one of every 10 connections doesn't open, and i need to reload the page ... are other experiencing the same problems with them ? 10x, erez ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
On Tuesday 21 April 2009 12:25:54 Erez D wrote: On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@iglu.org.il wrote: Hi Erez (and all)! On Tuesday 21 April 2009 11:10:48 Erez D wrote: hi i want a new Internet connection for my home. first i thought of trying the cellular companies. any experience with them ? are they good ? i am still connected to bbl+hot. i experience problems in creating a connection. one of every 10 connections doesn't open, and i need to reload the page ... are other experiencing the same problems with them ? As I mentioned here: http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il/msg54968.html were you able to solve it ? did disabling ipv6 work ? No, I wasn't able to solve it. Reducing the MTU did not seem to help. I haven't tried disabling IPv6 yet. The situation seems better on the WinXP desktop computer in the same room. I don't seem to get any Firefox problems there. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ What does Zionism mean? - http://xrl.us/bjn8u God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we read. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
i found the following link: http://www.internet-2.org.il/%D7%93%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%92_%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%90%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%98%D7%A8%D7%A0%D7%98/ don't know how to regard the results though ... On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Geoffrey Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/21 Erez D erez0...@gmail.com: hi i want a new Internet connection for my home. first i thought of trying the cellular companies. any experience with them ? are they good ? i am still connected to bbl+hot. i experience problems in creating a connection. one of every 10 connections doesn't open, and i need to reload the page ... are other experiencing the same problems with them ? Except for port 25 being closed, I have had no trouble with Netvision since I was dropped by IBM when they stopped taking Israeli credit cards (2000?). I hate BBL because of the way they handled my account and would never recommend them to anyone. My son has 012 and is very happy with them. He also uses HOT. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem, Israel ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
btw, disabling ipv6 didn't help either On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@iglu.org.il wrote: On Tuesday 21 April 2009 12:25:54 Erez D wrote: On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@iglu.org.il wrote: Hi Erez (and all)! On Tuesday 21 April 2009 11:10:48 Erez D wrote: hi i want a new Internet connection for my home. first i thought of trying the cellular companies. any experience with them ? are they good ? i am still connected to bbl+hot. i experience problems in creating a connection. one of every 10 connections doesn't open, and i need to reload the page ... are other experiencing the same problems with them ? As I mentioned here: http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il/msg54968.html were you able to solve it ? did disabling ipv6 work ? No, I wasn't able to solve it. Reducing the MTU did not seem to help. I haven't tried disabling IPv6 yet. The situation seems better on the WinXP desktop computer in the same room. I don't seem to get any Firefox problems there. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ What does Zionism mean? - http://xrl.us/bjn8u God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we read. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
I'm using Nezeq-Intl + Hot with no such issues. But: * I'm connecting via a router that manages the connection for me (I guess I would have still felt it - and I'm not). * maybe talk to them and try to change the connection type - pptp/ppoe/direct/etc. (I was using pptp until a few days and now direct connection without those issues). * I am unable to use Bitorrent these days. This is new thing for me - maybe a week or two and very annoying. AFAIK, and unfortunately, this also almost common practice for Israeli ISPs these days: http://shimi.net/2008/07/28/et-tu-bezeqint/ Boaz. Erez D wrote: hi i want a new Internet connection for my home. first i thought of trying the cellular companies. any experience with them ? are they good ? i am still connected to bbl+hot. i experience problems in creating a connection. one of every 10 connections doesn't open, and i need to reload the page ... are other experiencing the same problems with them ? 10x, erez ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
Hi, first i thought of trying the cellular companies. any experience with them ? are they I have a question regarding the cellular companies internet service: I heard that some cellular companies installed a blocking mechansim for their intenet clients which is called DPI. see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dpi AFAIK, this DPI can block voip application like Skype. And indeed one of the main usages of the DPI is to block VOIP traffic for celleular mobile clients who use skype. I believe that the same is for skype on the desktop. (I mean that the cellular company blocks it) For me, using skype is mandatory; so if an internet cellular company avoids it, I don't want it service. There is an ongoing trial agains some 3G cellular company in the US about this; and also some comapnies try to organize against this blocking in the EU. My question is: did anyone tried to use Skype (or other voip application) with a cellular comapany intenet service ? did it work? did he encounter any difficulties ? I apprecaite if anybody who know about the status of DPI in cellullar companies in Israel will share his knowledge. Regards, Rafi Gordon 2009/4/21 Erez D erez0...@gmail.com: hi i want a new Internet connection for my home. first i thought of trying the cellular companies. any experience with them ? are they good ? i am still connected to bbl+hot. i experience problems in creating a connection. one of every 10 connections doesn't open, and i need to reload the page ... are other experiencing the same problems with them ? 10x, erez ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
Rafi Gordon rafigor...@gmail.com writes: I heard that some cellular companies installed a blocking mechansim for their intenet clients which is called DPI. see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dpi And choose Deep Packet Inspection from the options... ;-) AFAIK, this DPI can block voip application like Skype. That's an on-going war, similar to the war between P2P applications and DPI. It's not limited to cellular companies, of course. And indeed one of the main usages of the DPI is to block VOIP traffic for celleular mobile clients who use skype. If I have a Wi-Fi-capable cell phone and install Skype on it, then mobile provider is nowhere on the path to do DPI (except inside the phone, but DPI would be too heavy for the HW). If one uses Skype over GPRS then the cell phone company can do DPI, I suppose. They do get paid for GPRS usage, but a lot of it may be flat rate. In Israel free Wi-Fi is common enough so using GPRS does not make much sense in the first place, but in other countries it may be an option. I believe that the same is for skype on the desktop. This is even more true for the traditional infrastructure providers - Bezeq and Hot. Both companies provide phone services, and one normally gets a package of phone and Internet (and cable TV, for Hot) from the same provider. Therefore, both have an interest to block services like Skype, and both, sitting on the data path, can employ DPI. An ISP would presumably like to provide you their own VoIP service (and charge you for it), so they may be interested in blocking everybody else, using DPI or whatever. But that is true for any ISP, not just for a mobile provider. I apprecaite if anybody who know about the status of DPI in cellullar companies in Israel will share his knowledge. Heh-heh, anybody from Allot on the list? Care to spill any corporate secrets? ;-) -- Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
On Apr 21, 2009, at 10:23 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: If one uses Skype over GPRS then the cell phone company can do DPI, I suppose. They do get paid for GPRS usage, but a lot of it may be flat rate. In Israel free Wi-Fi is common enough so using GPRS does not make much sense in the first place, but in other countries it may be an option. This is even more true for the traditional infrastructure providers - Bezeq and Hot. Both companies provide phone services, and one normally gets a package of phone and Internet (and cable TV, for Hot) from the same provider. Therefore, both have an interest to block services like Skype, and both, sitting on the data path, can employ DPI. An ISP would presumably like to provide you their own VoIP service (and charge you for it), so they may be interested in blocking everybody else, using DPI or whatever. But that is true for any ISP, not just for a mobile provider. I would be interested to see it hold up with the MOC. Technicaly, the VoIP law of 2004 requires a license to use VoIP. There was a big stink a few years ago when the MOC tried to enforce it and the next day they issued a clarification which said that the PRIVATE use (whatever that is) of VoIP was legal without a license. They specificaly mentioned SKYPE by name. This was caused by a great public outcry. The MOC was deluged by calls, emails, etc from the public. So if an ISP blocked SKYPE, one could complain to the MOC who would be loath to reverse itself. IMHO the ISP involved would not want you to complain to the MOC as the MOC might extend their decision and force them to do more. Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: ot: isps
Time to use traceroute to find the dropping node. I'd go for mtr hostname Note that some network components are dropping pings directed to them, but the nodes located after these will still show 0% packet loss. # On Tuesday 21 April 2009, Erez D wrote: i have no problems with download speed my ping is acting strange. it works for the first N icmps (N is a number between 30 and 150, changes every time), then it stops working. i spoke with bbl - they can find no problems although i (bbl+hot) and my mom (bbl+adsl) have the same problem On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Dotan Shavit do...@shavitos.com wrote: Try: http://speed.hot.net.il/script/DownloadSpeed.asp And check your effective bandwidth. Also check packet loss statistics with ping and/or hping. With this information you will be able to get decent support from bbl. # On Tuesday 21 April 2009, Erez D wrote: hi i want a new Internet connection for my home. first i thought of trying the cellular companies. any experience with them ? are they good ? i am still connected to bbl+hot. i experience problems in creating a connection. one of every 10 connections doesn't open, and i need to reload the page ... are other experiencing the same problems with them ? 10x, erez ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: [OT] ISPs and fixed IP
Ira, On Tuesday 04 May 2004 08:10, Ira Abramov wrote: indeed you should have. when my current prepaid year is up I intend to make it VERY clear to them that I do not intend to pay more for the service that was so far built-in. afterall my machine is online 24/7, what difference does it make if it is a fixed IP or a long lease? either way I am always occupying an IP address, may as well be a fixed one. You obviously know nothing about economics. :-) The reason they charge more for a fixed IP is the same reason dogs leak their genitals: because they can. Or to put it in economic terms: because people are willing to pay extra for it. It has nothing to do with the their cost. Gilad -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] Codefidence. A name you can trust (TM) http://www.codefidence.com I am Jack's Overwritten Stack Pointer -- Hackers Club, the movie = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] ISPs and fixed IP
Ira Abramov wrote: Quoting Yonah Russ, from the post of Mon, 03 May: they wanted me to pay 200- I complained and they lowered it to 150. I should have complained more. indeed you should have. when my current prepaid year is up I intend to make it VERY clear to them that I do not intend to pay more for the service that was so far built-in. afterall my machine is online 24/7, what difference does it make if it is a fixed IP or a long lease? either way I am always occupying an IP address, may as well be a fixed one. unfortunately they called me the night before my prepaid year was up- it was either get cut off the next morning and shop around for an ISP with a better deal, or pay up and stay connected :( yonah = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] ISPs and fixed IP
Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: Ira, On Tuesday 04 May 2004 08:10, Ira Abramov wrote: indeed you should have. when my current prepaid year is up I intend to make it VERY clear to them that I do not intend to pay more for the service that was so far built-in. afterall my machine is online 24/7, what difference does it make if it is a fixed IP or a long lease? either way I am always occupying an IP address, may as well be a fixed one. You obviously know nothing about economics. :-) The reason they charge more for a fixed IP is the same reason dogs leak their genitals: because they can. Or to put it in economic terms: because people are willing to pay extra for it. It has nothing to do with the their cost. This is possible- on the other hand they might be running out of static IP's to give out. Either way, the real question is do any other ISP's even offer static IP's and if so, for how much? yonah Gilad = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] ISPs and fixed IP
I've followed this thread since it matters me for the same reason it does to you. Why did they gave it for no charge earlier ? maybe they still had free static's to give but all other ISPs did charge. In comparison to them they could have charge without any doubts. I called them to learn of their fixed IP policy. I spoken to a new customers representative (not an existing-customer representative). She told me that she cant tell for sure that existing customers keep or loose their fixed IPs (that is - free of charge of course) when their contract is over, BUT new customers DO get a free static IP. So maybe it's a matter of pressure on them and/or flexebility of the customer to switch ISPs or at least prepare for such moves until you get the real sales guy who (hopefully) offers you to stay, with your fixed IP. Donno. What else can be done? Boaz. Yonah Russ wrote: Ira Abramov wrote: Quoting Yonah Russ, from the post of Mon, 03 May: they wanted me to pay 200- I complained and they lowered it to 150. I should have complained more. indeed you should have. when my current prepaid year is up I intend to make it VERY clear to them that I do not intend to pay more for the service that was so far built-in. afterall my machine is online 24/7, what difference does it make if it is a fixed IP or a long lease? either way I am always occupying an IP address, may as well be a fixed one. unfortunately they called me the night before my prepaid year was up- it was either get cut off the next morning and shop around for an ISP with a better deal, or pay up and stay connected :( yonah = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] ISPs and fixed IP
Quoting Gilad Ben-Yossef, from the post of Tue, 04 May: The reason they charge more for a fixed IP is the same reason dogs leak their genitals: because they can. Or to put it in economic terms: because people are willing to pay extra for it. It has nothing to do with the their cost. I know that, and for that reason I'm not going to pay extra. I will be very happy to pay extra for anything that indeed COSTS, not for this. For this same reason I refuse to subscribe to cable TV to channels I don't need, nor pay or commit to Partner communications for an upgrade to a phone that costs them peanuts and my monthly bills pay for quite sufficiently as it is. It is both my right and my duty to tell vendors in their face what I think of their pricing scheme when it changes and vote with my feet if the need arrises. -- Circus freak Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] ISPs and fixed IP
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 04 May 2004 05:10, Ira Abramov wrote: Quoting Yonah Russ, from the post of Mon, 03 May: they wanted me to pay 200- I complained and they lowered it to 150. I should have complained more. indeed you should have. when my current prepaid year is up I intend to make it VERY clear to them that I do not intend to pay more for the service that was so far built-in. afterall my machine is online 24/7, what difference does it make if it is a fixed IP or a long lease? either way I am always occupying an IP address, may as well be a fixed one. Blah, I've already paid them :-( - -- Meir Kriheli MKsoft systems http://www.mksoft.co.il -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAl2PvRkS5DWK1mZkRAhyiAKCticc4tsedzBE1c4V50g1XiINuMwCfVduL ji60HkkjuzAisz80QaEdXs8= =YKVW -END PGP SIGNATURE- To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] ISPs and kid scanning your computer
On Thu, May 24, 2001, Boaz Rymland wrote about [OT] ISPs and kid scanning your computer: ... The thing is I get many many scans, and I can see only the non-stealth ones. I'm being scanned many times per connection to the net, which is nowadays almost daily. The unauthorized connection attempts are to various ports, including 137, 12345, etc' etc' other beautiful assortments... . I was wandering if people subscribed to other ISPs also get many scans as I, or this is something Barak excels at (having too many kids-with-much-spare-time-on-their-hands...) . This happening all over, and not specific to Barak. Crackers, worms, and other mar'in-bishin, as well as legitimate entities such as search engines, global load balancers, and research companies are continuously probing random addresses throughout IP space, and you're going to see these scans in every provider, unless your provider has a firewall in front of you. I get connection attempts (as well as more stealthy packets) to various ports all the time: telnet, ftp, lpd, portmapper (several Linux distributions had holes in the last two, so crackers are trying to use it), Windows SMB ports, trojan backdoor ports, and other crap I don't recognize. It does no harm, but it proves to me everyday why investing a few hours in learning ipchains and why disabling most of the daemons on my home machine was a smart move. BTW, obviously, Barak are extremely useful when I call them complaining about this situation that each time I connect through them I get scanned (god knows how many scans such as those were made when other people in my house connected via Windows). Complaining to Barak won't do much good - it is not their fault, and there's not much they can do about it except protect their network with a firewall (and I know that I, for example, wouldn't want my dialup provider to enforce its firewalling rules on me - I get enough of this crap at work). What may help, in the long run, is looking at the IP addresses you can connection attempts from, collecting this data from a large number of volunteers (to screen out fake addresses - the issue of stealth scanning is very complicated and interesting and I don't want to get into it right now) and try to automatically find machines which may be owned (previously broken into) and warn their owner. Very rarely do you see a connection attempt from the direct source of the attack. One time, when I logged in through Netvision, I was sent ping packets, once every second, for several hours, from one IP address. This did me no harm (my firewall blocked them), so I just ignored it, but it wasted my poor modem's bandwidth, and filled my logfile with annoying messages... I don't know why would anyone want to keep a ping process running on a specific address in Netvision's dialup IP range, but I guess some idiot did... -- Nadav Har'El| Thursday, May 24 2001, 2 Sivan 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Why do doctors call what they do http://nadav.harel.org.il |practice? Think about it. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] ISPs and kid scanning your computer
I truly hope Barak will have enough common sense to leave their setup as-is. Because the only solution to the problem you describe here is a firewall. E.g. Barak will simply filter all incoming connections on specific ports. *I* want to retain my freedom to decide what ports are open and what are closed, and to setup my firewall however I like it. I have so many scans daily (I'm connected with ADSL to Barak), that I hardly look at them anymore. I have them sent to a separate log file that got archived offline for later inspection if need arises, and that's all. You can't do much about it. I don't think it's even illegal in Israel. Haim. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Boaz Rymland Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 11:29 AM To: Linux IL (E-mail) Subject: [OT] ISPs and kid scanning your computer Hi list, I'm connected to the internet via Barak online, with a linux IP-masquerading machine, with a decent IPChains setup in my kernel. I'm also using xconsole so I see the deny logged attempts to log into my machine. The thing is I get many many scans, and I can see only the non-stealth ones. I'm being scanned many times per connection to the net, which is nowadays almost daily. The unauthorized connection attempts are to various ports, including 137, 12345, etc' etc' other beautiful assortments... . I was wandering if people subscribed to other ISPs also get many scans as I, or this is something Barak excels at (having too many kids-with-much-spare-time-on-their-hands...) . BTW, obviously, Barak are extremely useful when I call them complaining about this situation that each time I connect through them I get scanned (god knows how many scans such as those were made when other people in my house connected via Windows). Boaz. - AVAYA Communication. Phone: +972-3-6458351 Fax: +972-3-6457146 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] ISPs and kid scanning your computer
Hey all, Yep, I get that many assortment of connection attempts to the various ports described here. Indeed, portmapper is really the favorite on my machine lately :-) . What a typo I had below - I meant to say that connecting Barak in extremely UNuseful !... :-) I talked to them on the phone, connected them by mail (abuse@...), and suggested my immediate sending of the details of the IPs I get scanned from (and indeed, all the log information I have) live, while this is still happening - zero response. Anyway, if there's anything to do I thought it would have been in the direction of live tracking of the sources of those scans. Many times the IP I get the report the scans are coming from seems valid, but I know it might be completely faked. But again, even suggesting Barak my online support didn't created anything, so my conclusion is... We just need to be happy that we are connecting through Linux, behind our own firewall, and that we are knowledgeable enough to manage all this... :-) boaz. -Original Message- This happening all over, and not specific to Barak. Crackers, worms, and other mar'in-bishin, as well as legitimate entities such as search engines, global load balancers, and research companies are continuously probing random addresses throughout IP space, and you're going to see these scans in every provider, unless your provider has a firewall in front of you. I get connection attempts (as well as more stealthy packets) to various ports all the time: telnet, ftp, lpd, portmapper (several Linux distributions had holes in the last two, so crackers are trying to use it), Windows SMB ports, trojan backdoor ports, and other crap I don't recognize. It does no harm, but it proves to me everyday why investing a few hours in learning ipchains and why disabling most of the daemons on my home machine was a smart move. BTW, obviously, Barak are extremely useful when I call them complaining about this situation that each time I connect through them I get scanned (god knows how many scans such as those were made when other people in my house connected via Windows). Complaining to Barak won't do much good - it is not their fault, and there's not much they can do about it except protect their network with a firewall (and I know that I, for example, wouldn't want my dialup provider to enforce its firewalling rules on me - I get enough of this crap at work). What may help, in the long run, is looking at the IP addresses you can connection attempts from, collecting this data from a large number of volunteers (to screen out fake addresses - the issue of stealth scanning is very complicated and interesting and I don't want to get into it right now) and try to automatically find machines which may be owned (previously broken into) and warn their owner. Very rarely do you see a connection attempt from the direct source of the attack. One time, when I logged in through Netvision, I was sent ping packets, once every second, for several hours, from one IP address. This did me no harm (my firewall blocked them), so I just ignored it, but it wasted my poor modem's bandwidth, and filled my logfile with annoying messages... I don't know why would anyone want to keep a ping process running on a specific address in Netvision's dialup IP range, but I guess some idiot did... -- Nadav Har'El| Thursday, May 24 2001, 2 Sivan 5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Why do doctors call what they do http://nadav.harel.org.il |practice? Think about it. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] ISPs and kid scanning your computer
The thing is I get many many scans, and I can see only the non-stealth ones. --- snip --- I was wandering if people subscribed to other ISPs also get many scans as I, or this is something Barak excels at (having too many kids-with-much-spare-time-on-their-hands...) . I was connected with ADSL to bezeq beiynleumi, I was scanned several times an hour on all kinds of exotic ports. I think this is something you have to live with these days :( Jeremy = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
