Re: linux on the desktop making inroads...
On Tue, 2005-02-01 at 08:48 +1300, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: There are a lot of computing needs which are definitely not met by Linux. Speech recognition is one, and don't start arguing that there isn't a *need* here unless you want to make a fool out of yourself. Engineering applications are next on my mind. Keeping your head in the sand and proudly proclaiming my needs are met by free software doesn't address any of these problems. I was talking more in general, not about you, you're not representative. same goes for CAD software (architectural or otherwise) , and speech software isnt exactly fantastic on any platform as yet . Cheers Dale.
Re: qemu WAS VMWARE LUG offer ......
As Nick said qemu is damn slow , but then again it is basically a fork of bochs with a few extras added to aid initial setup and configuration. Cheers Dale. On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 14:02 +1300, Nick Rout wrote: On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 13:04 +1300, Nick Rout wrote: have you tried it? I see it is in portage. hint you need softmmu in your USE variable. I'll report after lunch. On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 12:13 +1300, Christopher Sawtell wrote: Greets, Folks who are interested in this thread may also be interested to read about another Free emulator which has been released. http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/52/QEMU_System_Emulation.pdf Take care, it's 334 kB but well worth the read imho. ok so the article is about 1/3 the size of the qemu source :-) I downloaded, compiled and installed qemu, it took damn all time, its about 1M of source. hint for gentoo users set the softmmu USE flag: USE=softmmu emerge --ask qemu I then tried it out with qemu -cdrom KNOPPIX_V3.7-2004-12-08-EN.iso The emulation appears to be pretty complete, but r-a-t-h-e-r s-l-o-w. I also have vmware-workstation which is light years faster. If I understand correctly qemu is an emulator, whereas vmware is a hardware virtualiser. The distinction is better explained by wikipedia than I can do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VMware Of course qemu can emulate arm, ppc and sparc on x86 hardware, so for some things an emulator can be useful. Maybe a chance to see a ppc distro working, or test something specific on another architecture. There is a distinct price differential too :-) On my Athlon 1133 with 512M RAM first impressions show that there is a not enough grunt to make this system very usable. Allocating 256 M RAM instead of the default 128M doesn't seem to change much. My system is getting a bit old now (Anyone wanna contribute to a contract on that fella Moore?). I'd be interested to know how someone with a 3G p4 with heaps of RAM copes.
Re: VMWARE LUG offer ......
No further correspondence thus far , have been on holiday this week , will follow up early next week and see what is happening . Cheers Dale. On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 22:29 +1300, Christopher Sawtell wrote: On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:18, Dale Anderson wrote: Hi All Not sure if anyone is interested or not http://www.vmware.com/lugprex/lugPrez_login.jsp What's happening about this? Are we anywhere in the running?
Re: VMWARE LUG offer ......
Works/ed fine for me , 4.0+ on debian,ubuntu, gentoo , self rolled , hell it even worked on SuSe ;) (oh SUSE since novell merge) iirc . Cheers Dale. On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 17:10 +1300, Steve Holdoway wrote: Dale Anderson wrote: Hi All Not sure if anyone is interested or not http://www.vmware.com/lugprex/lugPrez_login.jsp Cheers Dale. I don't know if this has been pointed out, but... It doesn't run properly on any up-to-date kernel. That's debian with 2.6.8 or 2.6.9, FC2 or FC3 with 2.6.10 ( That's 5 systems with these 3 oses I've tried ). This is the real 4.5 Workstation I'm talking about. Falls over left and right, and I also had to install from an iso image of the cdrom, as it was reporting errors on 2 perfectly ok sets of RH3 cds. That's all I've tested it on, but... I wasted a lot of time and energy trying to get it to work. *not impressed* tm. Steve
Re: Configuring Helix Player
Helix is a standalone player with a plugin for web crud , all configuration has to be done in the standalone app . Cheers Dale. - Original Message - From: Vik Olliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CLUG linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 7:12 PM Subject: Configuring Helix Player I've installed helix-player under Debian. I think I need to change its proxy configurations and so forth, but can't find out how to get to its preferences dialog in either Mozilla or Firefox. Tantalisingly, I can find a link to screenshots of the dialogs: http://primates.ximian.com/~xkahn/helixplayer/ but no way of getting to them! I tried looking for the resource file, but that doesn't seem to be written. Any pointers? Vik :v) -- Vik Olliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Olliver Family
Re: Run process at startup
http://www.postgresql.org/about/news.277 - Original Message - From: Steve Holdoway [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 2:14 PM Subject: Re: Run process at startup On Fri, January 21, 2005 1:57 pm, Andrew Errington said: [snip] I plan to migrate to Postgres, then I'll be able to store all the data all the time and get graphs of any subset. Right now I'm just getting all the bits working. Andy If that's the case ( and an extremely sinsible one imho... given what mysql are doing atm ), then look out for release 8.Last time I looked it was at rc5, and that's available for M$, too. And for free. Could be useful in the real world (: Cheers, Steve -- Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
Re: Apache 2
VirtualHost *:80ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED]ServerName website01.domainA.comDocumentRoot "F:/websites/website01"/VirtualHost I'd imagine this wouldnt be helping much . try removing that entry as it is defined furthur down your config and changing #Use name-based virtual hosting.NameVirtualHost *:80NameVirtualHost 192.168.1.9:80NameVirtualHost 192.168.1.9:80NameVirtualHost 192.168.1.9:80 to #Use name-based virtual hosting.NameVirtualHost 192.168.1.9:80 Cheers Dale. - Original Message - From: Rob Wood To: CLUG Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 10:15 PM Subject: Apache 2 Greetings, I have been having major problems with Apache, running a main server and two virtual hosts. I have been through the Apache documentation with a fine tooth comb and as far as I can see my cofiguration should work. It works OK when accessingthe main server from outside, but when I try to access the virtual hosts, theyall default to the main server. The best I have managed so far is to run the main server and 1 virtual host, using the _default_vhost directive on a separate port. With this setup, I managed to access 2 of the sites, but then that leaves 1 site out of the setup. Assuming that the first 2 sections of the httpd.conf are correct, as it is as the default except that Ientered the basic main server information, then the 3rd section, Virtual Hosts must be causing the problem. I have therefore attached the VHost section of the httpd.conf to keep the e-mail concise. If anyone can point me in the right direction I would be grateful. I have unfortunately had to run my commercial site on Win2000 and IIS to stay online for nowsonone of my3 sites can be accessed via Apache just now. Woodsey No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 19/01/2005
Re: Apache 2
On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 23:27 +1300, Steve Holdoway wrote: Oy! Woodsey! No! Wot's this F: stuff? And the domain names should be lower case. Ah isnt he setting apache up on windows ? Dale.
Re: SOT: Car Inverter
- Original Message - From: Steve Holdoway [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 2:44 PM Subject: Re: SOT: Car Inverter On Fri, January 21, 2005 2:27 pm, C. Falconer said: I now own a 300 Watt 12V to 240V inverter. If anyone has a desire to run their laptop in a car for long trips then email me for a loan. BTW SOT: Semi Off Topic - my laptop runs linux. ...mind you keep the engine running - that's a max 25A draw on the battery! not that thats an issue , most modern alternators charge at ~ 50+ amps and a decent battery will output ~ 400+amps short duration. (unless you drive a late model import with the factory battery , where youll be unlikely to start the car after listening to the radio for 2 minutes with the car off , let alone firing the invertor up ;) .) Dale. Steve -- Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
Re: OT: Which company for .co.nz?
- Original Message - From: Volker Kuhlmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:24 PM Subject: Re: OT: Which company for .co.nz? Stay very well clear of domainz, they're dubious and have been breathed on by the commerce commission at least once. Oh really ? They are now owned by Domain Directors who I have found extremely good to deal with . Cheers Dale. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is possibly list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: VMWARE LUG offer ......
Hi all , since I hadn't heard any neg, feedback re pursuing this I have set the ball rolling as from last night , awaiting further communication from vmware at the moment . Cheers Dale. - Original Message - From: Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 11:43 AM Subject: Re: VMWARE LUG offer .. here are the terms conditions. http://www.vmware.com/pdf/lug_terms_conditions.pdf i posted the EULA a day or so ago. frankly i don't care who registers as president of our lug and receives a free license. however as there is a considerable benefit in terms of license fees, i suggest a consensus would be nice. we do not have a president, hands up who wants to register? Dale Anderson drew it to our attention, i say give him first option. don't forget the pres has to comply with this: In consideration of the license granted, VMware asks that each Linux Group President inform his or her colleagues, associates and Linux user group members of the benefits that he or she receives from using VMware products. On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:33:44 +1300 david merriman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dale Anderson wrote: Hi All Not sure if anyone is interested or not http://www.vmware.com/lugprex/lugPrez_login.jsp Cheers Dale. I'd be interested in a copy too. David -- The pen is mightier than the sword, but only if the sword is very small and the pen is very sharp -- Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VMWARE LUG offer ......
I'm happy to go ahead and organise it ...I guess the main issue is am I going to stand on somebodies toes if I do so ? Is there a 'president' of CLUG pursue ? Cheers Dale. On Fri, 2005-01-14 at 20:27 +1300, Robert Himmelmann wrote: I would also be intrested in a copy. Then I could finally abandon my windows partitions and try a second distro. I would also write some comments. Happy Hacking, Robert +---+ |If you don't know what 'Happy Hacking' means, read | |the book 'Free as in Freedom', published under | |http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/index.html | +---+ |Use free software only. See| |http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html | +---+ |Please avoid sending me Microsoft Word attachments.| |For more information, see: | |http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html | +---+
VMWARE LUG offer ......
Hi All Not sure if anyone is interested or not http://www.vmware.com/lugprex/lugPrez_login.jsp Cheers Dale.
Re: Reiser4, wish me luck...
IIRC Lindows(Linspire) has been using it for some time . I gave up on it when it required a few nasty hacks within glibc source to get a bootstrap to build nice . Must get around to having a play with it again . Cheers Dale. - Original Message - From: Volker Kuhlmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 10:26 PM Subject: Re: Reiser4, wish me luck... You're a good keen man! ;) SuSE reckons reiser4 is not yet ripe for production use, which is why they're not shipping it by default, but it's shipped as an installable option. I guess someone has to start using it, but it seems to be user beware. #%$#%$!! Reiser4 is working just fine. But somehow I missed the error message from a 2GB file size limit. Is this a specific reiser4 limit which exists for some temporary reason (because the reiser3 limit is in the terrabytes), or something configurable which you forgot to turn on? (Btw check /proc/config.gz for where your kernel config might have come from.) Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is possibly list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: Judy Lindsay questions
On Tue, 2004-12-28 at 11:03 +1300, Andrew Errington wrote: No you cant they wont send more than 3 (iirc) keys for 'evaluation' purposes.(unless of course you want to reregister all the time) Cheers Dale. Andy PS VMWare is free, but you need a licence key. A 30-day trial key is free, and I suppose you could keep getting a new one every 30 days.
Re: Settled on ubuntu (great) - postfix question?
On Sun, 2004-12-26 at 20:29 +1300, Daryn Hanright wrote: You'd think that would work wouldn't you? Ha! Tried above email still kept being sent as [EMAIL PROTECTED] I take it the host/domainname is setup correctly in main.cf ? Ended up giving up got sendmail working with procmail. I sent this email with the working config so I think its working properly! Thanks for your help Chris. cheers Daryn == The PalmHeads http://www.planetnz.com/palmheads Cheers Dale.
Re: Settled on ubuntu (great) - postfix question?
On Mon, 2004-12-27 at 13:37 +1300, Daryn Hanright wrote: On Sun, Dec 26, 2004 at 10:06:27PM +1300, Dale Anderson wrote: On Sun, 2004-12-26 at 20:29 +1300, Daryn Hanright wrote: You'd think that would work wouldn't you? Ha! Tried above email still kept being sent as [EMAIL PROTECTED] I take it the host/domainname is setup correctly in main.cf ? I think so (am not completely sure!). I had this set-up... myhostname = localhost.localdomain mydomain = localdomain There goes your problem :) , yes you need to set them to whatever is relevant to your setup . Cheers Dale. They should represent exactly what your machine hostname domain are huh? cheers Daryn
Re: Cheap way to get into embedded linux
The EPIA MII is fantastic value for money for a incar type setup , onboard firewire (great if you want to add in a removable harddrive dock for mp3's etc) CF reader, usb, svideo out, 5.1 audio etc etc etc , and easy to wire up a filter and run 12volt line direct to the board . I take it the router in the link is using the ARM development kit style board ? 80mhz ARM is more than enough HP to play mp3's etc Cheers Dale. Andrew Errington wrote: On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:52, you wrote: Interesting - what do you intend to use it for? Whats the PSU? Does it have audio? How powerful is the CPU in effective terms? According to the DSE site the PSU is 7.5V 1A, so you could step-down from a car battery easily. For audio I would suggest a USB audio solution (I don't expect there to be any audio hardware on this board). Something like XH1938 or XH7870 might work because the board has a USB *host* port on it. For a car computer I think a mini-ITX fanless motherboard with a mini-box (www.mini-box.com) car PSU would be better. Andy
Re: Make your desktop snow!!!!
Theres a module in e17 also for those using it Dale. On Wed, 2004-12-22 at 17:37 +1300, Caleb Sawtell wrote: Hi I found this cool app while searching though the gentoo forums and can be downloaded from http://www.euronet.nl/~rja/Xsnow/ and it is in portage for you fellow gentooers :
Potentially the best 404 ever .....
Hi All Thought some might find this amusing ;) http://www.digikitten.com/k.txt Cheers Dale.
Re: Xtra jetstream new plans....
Paradise cable , static IP , and plug-in-play (modem is just a bridge with IP allocated to box on the other side ) , and national traffic is charged at a very small percent of actual MB . Dale. John Carter wrote: Xtra is badgering me to move to a new plan. One curiousity is all local traffic is now part of your allocation. I wonder how long it would take if we start ignoring local mirrors and just go to the international sources before they will change that? Since they are forcing me to re-read all the fine print again, I don't see why I should stop at reading their fine print... Any suggestions for Linux friendly ISP's. My dream ISP will have a plan that doesn't bankrupt me if I get hit by a DDOS, will provide a static IP and allow me to serve up my home machine for convenience and to friendly traffic, and have a free Debian mirror. John Carter Phone : (64)(3) 358 6639 Tait ElectronicsFax : (64)(3) 359 4632 PO Box 1645 ChristchurchEmail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] New Zealand The universe is absolutely plastered with the dashed lines exactly one space long.
Re: It's that time of year again
LMAO , thanks yuri :)
Dale.
yuri wrote:
better !pout !cry
better watchout
lpr why
santaclaus northpole town
cat /etc/passwd list
ncheck list
ncheck list
cat list | grep naughty nogiftlist
cat list | grep nice giftlist
santaclaus northpole town
who | grep sleeping
who | grep awake
who | grep bad || good
for (goodness sake) {
be good }
Re: OT Can someone explain please
Well obviously if the language used/implied is against the law itself in one way or another , how do you think radio/TV personalities get around sharing their personal views on air ? Dale. Volker Kuhlmann wrote: As far as I recall it is legal to state your personal views re someone else publically as long as you truely believe your statement regardless of the content . So I could call you all sorts rude and offensive things in public and be legally safe? And nobody say I don't believe them to be true! I find that hard to believe. I have however heard that the opposite is true: saying things about someone else, even if true (eg company XYZ on the West Coast is destroying the environmetn by ...), can get you successfully prosecuted. Volker
Re: Can someone explain please
As far as I recall it is legal to state your personal views re someone else publically as long as you truely believe your statement regardless of the content . Dale. Nope, email is not new rules. The lawyers will tell you that email can be regarded as a legally binding document. Derek. = On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Andrew Errington wrote: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:48, you wrote: The answer is no no no. My conclusion is that it is never never never ok to flame newbies. Never. I agree. It's okay to flame idiots though. Andy
Re: Can someone explain please
Yes sorry Nick see my 'adjustment' in the next post , I wasnt directly refering to joe bloggs has done something , more I believe this person is X because ...and rightly the 'regardless of content' is a bit loose . Dale. Nick Rout wrote: On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:27:38 +1300 Dale Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I recall it is legal to state your personal views re someone else publically as long as you truely believe your statement ...regardless of the content . regardless of the content goes too far. there are a number of things relevant here: 1. it is defamation to say something that lowers the target in the eyes of right thinking people generally: X is a thief, X is into bestaility, Doctor X couldn't diagnose the common cold, X the sysadmin couldn't secure a linux box if it was in a locked shipping container with no connection to the outside world. Just think what it would mean to your personal or business lives if someone said those things about you, and you will realise why. 2. it is a defence to defamation if the statement is true, but having said it you must prove it, a notoriously difficult task. 3. it is a defence to defamation if you are expressing a genuinely held opinion and express the reasons for the opinion the latest record by Band G is awful because they have abandoned their blues roots and produced a poppy but shallow imitation of their glorious early albums. However it is easy to cross the line, as i imagine this might: Band G have stooped to new depths with their loathsome new album. The lead singer sings like a cat with asthma which is only fitting for the crap played by her backing musicians. Clearly 'musicians' is not the right word for these creatures, they are blood sucking leeches on today's youth, selling out to corporate greed and their own ends. 4. there are also laws about how we behave in public, such as laws against offensive behaviour and language in public places, and laws about inciting racial hatred etc. Dale.
Re: OT: IPCOP and too much spare time
Im glad im not the only geek ;) , current motd set the other week [EMAIL PROTECTED] $ cat /etc/motd Welcome to the Adistro 1.0 Sample Implementation ...all your amin are belong to us [EMAIL PROTECTED] $ (long story) ;) Dale. Brendan Greer wrote: hi people This is off topic, suposed to be slightly funny Edited one of the images on the ipcop main page the screen shots can be seen on the page below http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~bjgreernz/IPCOP/IPCOP.html For background see http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/index.shtml Brendan Greer
Re: DVD Playing on Linux - help for others??
Dont worry Chris the novelty will soon wear off. Dale. Christopher Sawtell wrote: On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 10:29, Jason Greenwood wrote: Yes, I know, similar on Drake. That doesn't work too well on non-Gentoo systems now does it? True. And if you don't want to compile?? Ah. But _you_ don't compile, your computer - directed by the Gentoo .ebuild script - does. You do not have to know one iota about what it's doing. Compiling is nothing to be allergic to, honestly it's no big deal. There's the rub. Different distros, er, strokes for different folks. Indeed, vive la differance. Compiling all that on a less than modern machine aint exactly going to be quick now is it? It all depends on how you define quick, it's going to be a _great deal_ faster - even on a 600MHz machine - than footling around until 03:00am looking for some weird rpm file to d/l. Took me 5 minutes of downloading over 128K adsl and then 2 minutes of installing and I was done... =) You conveniently forget the time taken to find the particular file you need, and then fighting all the demons living in rpm hell. Been there, done that, _never_ again. Remember that Linux is an Open _Source_ system. imho binary distributions of it are an anachronism from 10 years ago when the ordinary personal user was lucky to have a 33 Mhz '486 with 8 megs of ram. That sort of machine could not do very much compiling at all. The situation today is that memory and speed are about a 100 times bigger and faster than there were then. Building packages from source is quite practical now-a-days. Statically linked RPMS are even better than Gentoo for most smallish programs IMHO. No dependency hell, just download, install, use. Simple. With modern cheap hard drives, WHO CARES about library duplication?? I certainly don't!!! For a machine used by a single user I agree completely, but for a machine used concurrently by many users shared object libraries do save massive amounts of still somewhat precious memory. Cheers Jason Christopher Sawtell wrote: On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 09:53, Jason Greenwood wrote: The setup was straightforward and quick once I found the right info - which took me until 3am (!) 3am Egads ( !!! ) emerge --sync ( approx 10 minutes, paradise cable is nice ) emerge vlc ( or xine, or mplayer, or ogle, or kaffeine ) Cook and eat dinner. Watch film. Do we need another Gentoo mini-InstallFest?
Re: OT: Monitor hardware fixing?
Just adding a note that VisTech had a couple of kick ass monitor techs working there (when I was working there) , the main issue these days is actually sourcing the components , most manufacturers these days buy from various sources during the run of even one model and alot of the 'sources' are supplying X amount of the parts in one batch only , so getting them second hand is usually unlikely . Cheers Dale. Jim Cheetham wrote: Jim Cheetham wrote: screen. I don't fancy opening the beast up myself, but if anyone knew of a decent repair business who might be prepared to have a go I'd like to hear about it ... Thanks for the feedback. I spoke to Ascot and then Visual Tech, both said $50 to assess/quote, and by my description of the problem less than $100 to fix. Now we await a wet day for someone to bring a car to work, so we can cart the tube off (probably to Ascot because of CLUG links). -jim
OT sourgeforge
Hi All Anyone else having issues with anon access to SF cvs ? Developer access works fine , but a few projects I'm wanting to sync with I dont have developer access to :\ . Just verifying wether I have b0rk'd something at my end or not . Cheers Dale.
Re: Changing Desktop Size (Was: increasing text size [case changed])
Nick Rout wrote: On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:07:01 +1300 yuri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:33:42 +1300, Nick Rout wrote: On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:30:57 +1300 yuri wrote: On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:21:17 +1300, Michael JasonSmith wrote: On Fri, 2004-11-26 at 12:55 +1300, Steve Holdoway wrote: [Snipped stuff about resizing with Ctrl+Alt+Plus, Ctrl+Alt+Minus] That's the only thing that the windows gui does better than X11, IMHO. Anyone heard anything about when this will change on linux? If I was good enough to code X11 stuff it would be the first patch I'd submit :-) Yuri KDE will do iterrr in the control panel thingy, peripherals i think. On the fly? Or does it take effect next time you log in? Last time I checked I couldn't change on the fly. Yuri I can, may depend on X version and kde version. ~4.2.99+ and all x.org xrandr supports it on the fly iirc . there is a program in current versions of X called xrandr (X resize something), which will do it from the command line, ie in an xterm. (XRANDR is also an extension to X, like RENDER and COMPOSE etc., you can probably tell if it is going by grepping /var/log/Xorg.0.log -- ** WARNING to mailing list repliers ** Gmail over-rides Reply-To: field. Check your To: address before sending reply to this post.
Re: OT: Anyone else fell the slow rolling earthquake?
Havent had enough coffee to notice small things like that as yet ;) Dale. On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:32, Carl Cerecke wrote: Lasted about a minute just now. Cheers, Carl.
Re: unlimited.school.nz RE: [Fwd: Re: ignorate priciple's]
Well if done right it should be , you can still have metadata within a flash site for google to find ... Dale. On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:26, C. Falconer wrote: Their site will be completely invisible to google - because google doesn't search flash. Not a good way to help the customers find you. -Original Message- From: Steve Bell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 19 November 2004 9:07 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Fwd: Re: ignorate priciple's] I'm going to go out on a limb here and say from a designer's perspective, I actually think the site's quite cool. Now before yall throw heavy objects to knock me off my limb, I did say 'design', not 'content'. Sometimes I worry all you geeks get too wrapped up in code and forget about those unfortunates among us who like pretty things d:-P Righto, now I'm sitting in a roasting disk on my limb, waiting for a rise in temperature. BTW, sorry Olwen, think I got caught by a reply to header, maybe... Olwen Williams wrote: I didn't contact Caleb's pincipal, but did look at their website, and submitted it to http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com Officially the website sucks, for it's Flash and guesswork approach. http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/dailysucker/ On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:15:57 +1300, Caleb Sawtell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the priciple of my school ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) he thinks linux is a peice of shit. feel free to drop him a line. -- Caleb Sawtell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just a question about LFS.......
Damn Gmail , as I sent to Edwin ... usual practice is to build in $LFS/sources and looks like the prefix hasnt been passed to configure . Dale. On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 22:44 +1300, Edwin F wrote: Okay, kinda bored so i'm trying out LFS. I'm just wondering about the 'make install' bit of compiling. Here's what happens: /bin/sh /home/ed/Documents/LFS/binutils-2.14/install-sh -c -m 644 libiberty.a /usr/local/lib/libiberty.an cp: cannot create regular file `/usr/local/lib/#inst.5353#': Permission denied make[1]: *** [install_to_libdir] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/ed/Documents/LFS/binutils-2.14/libiberty' make: *** [install-libiberty] Error 2 yes, i'm running as user lfs, but i have full write permissions for the LFS partition and shouldn't it be installed into $LFS/tools/ ? I dont want to install this on the host machine, at least i *think* i dont want to... I followed all the instructions... should i just install as root?
Re: SVG icons (Was: Initial Thoughts on Fedora Core 3)
Thats what dual head is for isnt it ?? ;) Dale. On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 17:22 +1300, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: It would be really cool to have a daemon or cron script that monitors the size of the trash directory and scales the trashcan icon proportionally. Oh n - you wouldn't have enough screen real-estate if you did that with the windoof partition too... Volker
Re: evolution-2 bits missing?
mm they were definitly there when I had it installed under freeBSD the other day , ill have a look when I get home tonight if you havent sorted the issue by then . (currently booted into gentoo) Cheers Dale. Jamie Dobbs wrote: On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 18:17 +1300, Nick Rout wrote: I used to like the summary page in evolution 1.4, it saved me looking out the window to see what the weather was doing, but more importantly it had nice views of rss/rdf news feeds. I seems to have vanished in version 2. Anyone knows if this has indeed disappeared, or whether I have done something. gentoo. but there don't seem to be any relevant USE flags. Yeah, I miss those too :-( ... at this point I'm thinking of going back to version 1.4 or maybe using Sylpheed instead.
Re: ATTN Gentoo users.
Thanks Col not sure what they are trying to achieve recently , a few portage updates recently have almost stuffed over the base system on my mail server : \ . Dale. Col wrote: I just updated my system, resulting in no modules autoloaded on bootup. It took down my network i/f, alsa, vid capture, usb It appears have changed the way hotplug works and now need coldplug to auto load modules on boot. #emerge coldplug #rc-update add coldplug boot Col.
Re: ATTN Gentoo users.
Nick Rout wrote: On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 09:01, Jamie Dobbs wrote: #emerge coldplug #rc-update add coldplug boot Thanks for that, it saved me some trouble! The main issue I have now is that the lastest emerge -Ud world I did has screwed Gnome! Gnome 2.8 has been installed but freezes at the splash screen and there appear to be no way to exit it (have to ssh in and reboot). I haver searched the forums and bug tracker but can find no solution to this. I even even tried re-emerging gnome and gnome-session but this hasn't fixed it. Does anyone have any ideas? emerge kde Real handy Nick :) fire up x from a console as the user Jamie and see what gnome spits out to the console (if anything) . Cheers Dale. Cheers Jamie
Re: About Basics on Linux
Derek Smithies wrote: Hi, and there is the spectemu for linux - zx spectrum emulator. The ZX spectrum is a z80a based computer, which was (for the time) an incredibly cheap micro computer (or should that be nano computer?). /me still recalls the fun of playing JetSet Willy .. :) Dale.
Re: ATTN Gentoo users.
Nick Rout wrote: On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 09:36, Jamie Dobbs wrote: I noticed that KDE locked up after a while too, and it appeared to be after a period of inactivity so the screensaver should have tried to have kicked in. I did an emerge xscreensaver and now both gnome and kde seem to work fine. As an aside Nick, I prefer Gnome as to me its font rendering is better, and it seems faster as well. sorry it wasn't a serious suggestion, and now I have probably started another damn desktop war! i am starting to use gnome a bit, some time with ubuntu increased my appreciation of it. i think it has less background dross like arts slowing the show down. yeah cleaner default interface helps to , less to render etc (although some of the themes currently quickly turn it to custard) , KDE has the interapp comunication beat atm though , although with gnome's goals for current cvs and furthur dbus migration I think things are going to be better in that regard under the Gnome next release . Cheers Dale.
Re: Opinions re choice of CPU; marginally on topic
So you spend good money to get a kick ass looking system , that sucks ass performance wise due to limited L2 cache and mhz ..been there done that , imnsho get the complete package or dont bother , all the internal components are equally important , if you already have a half decent monitor , keyboard etc better to get decent cpu/board/ram and build out from there , you can always update vid cards etc down the track . Dale. Michael JasonSmith wrote: I recommend building the machine back *towards* the CPU rather than *from* the CPU. * First, get a good monitor, as you will be staring at it a lot, so be kind to yourself. * Next, get a good keyboard and mouse because you will be interacting with those components more than any part of the system. * Decide on a video card to drive your monitor, and is suited to what you are doing on the system. Also take into account noise and heat (which is often, but not always, related) as video cards can be hot and noisy components. * The power-supply is an important component. There is no point buying flash components and frying them with poor power. * Motherboard next. All computers have a problem with moving data around quickly, and a good motherboard will help a lot. * RAM. Get what you think you will need, and then get a bundle more :) * Disk storage. Neh, if you run out of space you can get new hard disks to hold more holiday snaps. Speed is also important if you skimped on RAM :) * Other odds and ends, like sound cards and networking come next. * Finally, with the dregs of your funds, get the fastest CPU you can afford. It will not be the flashiest number-cruncher on the block. But * All the DSP work is handled by dedicated sound, and networking hardware, * All the graphics work is handled by the dedicated GPU, * The large amount of RAM keeps the system sprightly as the OS employs large disk-caches, and * You can keep the CPU well-feed with data as the motherboard is quick. My 2.
Re: Opinions re choice of CPU; marginally on topic
On that note mhz are largely over rated also .. :) Dale.
Re: Opinions re choice of CPU; marginally on topic
I hardly think having just enough left to get a ok cpu for the fantastic board/ram/vid combo is a good idea either you still need X amount of processing power to handle the other kick ass hardware also , and remember most LAN/Audio/etc stuff doesnt have onboard HW to take all the load off the cpu these days unless purchasing mega dollar HW , most still requires some software handholding . Dale. Volker Kuhlmann wrote: Both extremes are to be avoided. I am cautioning people not to purchase a CPU that is faster than they need while overlooking the other hardware. Yes. There is merit to buy all parts at the same time so they fit together performance wise. Your steps are good ones to follow for specing a system (which is what I understand you meant them to be). Buying a part every month isn't a good strategy. Save up first. Volker
Re: SUSE, YaST and dial-up failure
With dialup connections DNS is dynamic upon connection with the ISP , a static resolv.conf isnt nessessary in most senarios . Cheers Dale. Carl Cerecke wrote: Andy Leach wrote: The only other error I have is that /etc/resolv.conf does not exist but I don't know if this is relevant! It's not relevant. I get the same error on my recently installed SuSE 9.1. I haven't looked into it. I found that SuSE set /dev/null to 644. It should be 666: As root: chmod 666 /dev/null Also, I could not get Kinternet to work at all. Instead, I used kppp and made pppd setuid root, plus world write access to a couple of files I think. Oh, and I've got an external modem. Thank goodness. Cheers, Carl.
Re: Computer names, was RE: Opinions re choice of CPU; marginally on topic
server - apterix desktop - diomeda test server (freebsd) - nada lappy - cant remember :) (wife's so dont get to touch it often ;) ) Dale. Jim Cheetham wrote: Andrew Errington wrote: PiscesMy laptop SagittariusWife's laptop GeminiRouter LibraMP3 Player VirgoServer ScorpioCar MP3 player (currently not installed) TaurusPlay machine (currently in pieces) Don't forget to enlist Google Sets into your themes ... http://labs.google.com/sets http://labs.google.com/sets?hl=enq1=bushq2=clintonq3=reagan http://labs.google.com/sets?hl=enq1=serverq2=laptopq3=desktop -jim
Re: SUSE, YaST and dial-up failure
Worse case get the source from http://ltmodem.heby.de/ and build against your new kernel , you will likely have to install the kernel source/headers for the new kernel . I used the above against alot of heavily patched kernels without issues (2.5.* ~2.6.0at that stage ,when on dialup in my gentoo days :) . Cheers Dale. Andy Leach wrote: Volker Kuhlmann wrote: (rpm -q kernel-default ltmodem) this reports kernel-default-2.6.5-7.111 ltmodem-2.6.2-38.8 Arrgh, you have the latest running, which means the problem is elsewhere. Post us the output of rpm -V kernel-default ltmodem (there should be none) .M.. /dev/ttyLT0 I assume you have rebooted since this trouble started and it didn't change anything. yes, rebooted several times now. I also ssume you have configured your provider details in yast as you should have. Provider as in ISP? in which case yes, it's fine, it's unchanged Click on the kinternet icon in the panel to start the dialup. Right-click on it and select view-log. Watch until it has definitely finished. We want to see what the log says. The log says: SuSE Meta pppd ( smpppd-ifcfg), Version 1.16 on linux Status is: disconnected trying to connect yo smpppd connect to smpppd Status is: disconnected Status is: lurking pppd[0]: Plugin passwordfd.so loaded pppd[0]: Using interface ppp0 Status is: lurking pppd[0]: local IP address 192.168.99.1 pppd[0]: remote IP address 192.168.99.99 I waited a minute and nothing was added so I fired up firefox and tried to get to google, nothing was added to the log so I fired up konqueror and tried the same, again nothing was added to the log. I clicked thekinternet icon again and it added pppd[0]: terminating on signal 15 Status is: disconnected pppd[0] died: pppd received a signal (exit code 5) I forgot to post the results from *lsmod* in my previous reply, sorry - I didn't see ltmodem but I did have ppp_generic when KInternet is ready to connect - is there a way of getting lsmod output to be alphabeticaly ordered? Quickly google for those ltmodem versions, there's a theoretical chance the latest combo of them doesn't work. I found a suggestion to try modprobe ltserial modprobe ltmodem they returned FATAL: Module ltserial not found and FATAL: Module ltmodem not found the thread then suggested that ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/update/9.1/rpm/i586/ltmodem-2.6.2-38.5.i586.rpm be downloaded and used but the one I have here is newer than that. Sadly there's no conclusion to the post so we'll never know if it worked or if he gave in and bought an external... thanks Andy Volker
Re: SUSE, YaST and dial-up failure
Not it the PM/config HAS got itself twisted and its trying to load the wrong modules .with both being present Dale. Volker Kuhlmann wrote: No, don't. These modules are part of package ltmodem, and the rpm -V ltmodem didn't report them as missing, so unless the rpm database is corrupted they must be there. A rpm -q ltmodem should list them. As the dialup works it's moot though. Volker
Re: nvidia graphcs driver 1.0.6629
Seen one instance of a backtrace revealing a potential memory leak but aside that only good things about the new release of the nvidia drivers, most seem to be getting good fps increase etc with GL apps . Dale. On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 14:05 +1300, Nick Rout wrote: Gentoo is telling me that this updated version of the nvidia graphics drivers is available. Has anyone tried them? presently on nvidia 1.0.6111 and kernel 2.6.8, will probably go to 2.6.9 when i get the time to sort it out.
Re: it's much quieter...
Use procmail or similar on the mail server , doesnt matter how clever your client is then . Dale. Steve Holdoway wrote: ... now my mailwasher server is in place. Unfortunately, I still get the replies ): Not perfect for cleaning up mail lists, although that's not really what it's for. And before you point out... due to the volumes of mail lately, I've had to transfer the clug mail list to my personal mail server, and I keep up to date using squirrelmail, which doesn't have any clever filtering ( you try the mailing list over GPRS (: ). Interestingly, the mail filters that I set up from mozilla fo redirect to subfolders work. All I have to do is to leave mozilla up reading my mail at home! Cheers, Steve
Re: it's much quieter...
Maybe I have misread your post , but instead of having mozilla filtering the lists etc why not just setup procmail and access the mail server using imap, that way you can use mulitple clients and not have to worry about filtering at the client end. Procmail can filter on list matchs/to from cc etc just as most clever clients these days. Cheers Dale. Steve Holdoway wrote: Dale, How? filter out every occurrence of the offending email? I use procmail for local delivery to courier, behind sendmail 8.13 with rbs (ordb and spamhaus)/mailwasher spam filtering. It would be preferable ( as an 'academic' exercise ) to filter out everything before local delivery if possible. Cheers, Steve On Tue, November 9, 2004 12:11 pm, Dale Anderson said: Use procmail or similar on the mail server , doesnt matter how clever your client is then . Dale. Steve Holdoway wrote: ... now my mailwasher server is in place. Unfortunately, I still get the replies ): Not perfect for cleaning up mail lists, although that's not really what it's for. And before you point out... due to the volumes of mail lately, I've had to transfer the clug mail list to my personal mail server, and I keep up to date using squirrelmail, which doesn't have any clever filtering ( you try the mailing list over GPRS (: ). Interestingly, the mail filters that I set up from mozilla fo redirect to subfolders work. All I have to do is to leave mozilla up reading my mail at home! Cheers, Steve
Re: What's going on here?
eBhakta wrote: Wake up! The whole effort here is to NOT alienate anyone, least of all those who are trying to oppose greedy/lusty corporate capitalists! This list is, supposedly, dedicated to that, as Linux is dedicated to that, namely opposing greedy Microtoss/soft, and their greedy intent on global domination, etc. This is why the interest in going to using Linux, as opposed to Microtoss/soft... :$ Simple. I think you are wildly misjudging the lists goal , it is here (and the members there of ) to offer support for Linux/OS software problems , nothing more politically/corp orientated or otherwise (unless it is likely to impact our use of OSS) . Linux (tm) in its existance has NEVER had the goal to oppose MS and other corperate closed source operating systems, more to provide a platform for OSS developers to use without legality issues.. Dale.
Re: A marginal topic
Especially when most have the recovery (tm) is in the first few GB of the drive these days. Almost no manufacturers these days provide a copy of the OS and you ll more than likley find depending on the brand that HN wont perform the reinstall itll be sent to a 3rd party authorised service center if done as a warrenty claim . Cheers Dale. Fisher, Robert (FXNZ CHC) wrote: Or if they simply re-image the hard disk. Regards, Robert -Original Message- From: Volker Kuhlmann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 9 November 2004 1:31 p.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: A marginal topic And yes, a somewhat competetent techie should well be able to leave your Linux partion(s) intact, unless the disk is replaced of course. Volker
Re: OT: Xtra broadband
Not to mention if you trace the links furthur back down the chain you will more than likely find telecom/telstra are alot more related than shown in NZ business circles . Dale. Volker Kuhlmann wrote: almost ridiculously naive but I reckon we would have more of a hope of controlling our own than Telstra or BT. Well, except that Telecom is hardly a New Zealand owned company ever since the GOTD [1] decided to sell out for $1, or so I've heard. There's still much to be said for competition whenever possible. Remember that toll prices are only affordable now because of Clear. Oh, and what was that thing about controlling Telecom? Surely you're joking? They seem to be very successful right now at making a long nose at everyone else. Volker [1] government of the day
Re: Fix-up evening - call for volunteers
Volker Kuhlmann wrote: No. Read what I wrote. umount(8), the _command_ So running umount is safe then, as I initially said. Which Joe User gives a *(@*# whether it's because of the umount program or the umount system call? How many Joe Users are on the list , and how does such learn inner workings if they desire when details as such arnt queried . Dale.
Re: Stupid Damn Operating System
/me finishes installing DE and nods via his nice shiny fbsd install . Dale. ;) Andrew Turner wrote: The nice think with FreeBSD is I can update the kernel with three commands: make update make kernel shutdown -r now Andrew
Re: Stupid Damn Operating System
modprobe hid mousedev ? Dale. Steve Holdoway wrote: Steve Holdoway wrote: Matthew Gregan wrote: At 2004-10-20T18:39:51+1300, Steve Holdoway wrote: no, no, no! That's for a 2.4.x kernel. True, but the old way still works just fine. BTW... you don't use nVidia drivers, do you? I tried the 2.6.9-pre4 kernel with version 6111, and it wouldn't build. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/245902 Cheers, -mjg Cheers... worked perfectly. But why was one line missed out of one file? Politics??? Probably. up and running on 2.6.9 and slackware in a *real* windows envirnoment (: Steve Spoke too soon. Logged in... great. But no mouse, no response to anything but the power button. Back to 2.6.8.1 Steve
Re: [Fwd: Announcing Ubuntu 4.10 The Warty Warthog Release]
More like we havent had enough time to add the extra intergration/eyecandy as shipped with our gnome build Dale. Volker Kuhlmann wrote: Nowhere on that page does it state that KDE support in Ubuntu is beta. We don't at this stage have the resources to put the same level of post-freeze work into the KDE packages as we put into the Gnome packages. I read that as beta, or not much tested. Volker
Re: Stupid Damn Operating System
Being that you didnt give any info re what exactly you did to upgrade the kernel on the formentioned OS it is rather hard for anyone to give advise in correcting the issue . Dale. Michael JasonSmith wrote: After a bugger of an afternoon I finally have the new 2.6.9 installed. For some reason the sysfs lookups failed so the kernel did not find hda2 (the root partition) and the error-message VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0) resulted. Fantastic. The incantation root=0302 as an argument to the kernel got it up and running. What is 0302, you may ask. It appears it is the *actual* partition number given to hda2 by the IDE subsystem, c.f. # cat /sys/bus/ide/devices/0.0/block/hda2/dev 3:2 # Why the *%%$#^*%$#@ kernel could not just find it like it did with the stock FC2 kernel is beyond me for the moment. Still, it goes for now
Re: Newbie
Depends entirely who you are talking to ...the community(tm) or RedHat Volker Kuhlmann wrote: Red Hat no longer exists, and I haven't heard much of Fedora lately. Not quite, Volker :) Depends on how nitpicky you want to be. We are discussing home use, and I am correct in saying that Red Hat no longer exists. In fact, Red Hat has done its level best to disown itself. Fedora is not Red Hat, just ask Red Hat, or call it Red Hat and they'll send you the lawyers (just like Redmond). Yes I know RHEL exists but who cares, the OP sure doesn't, so you're not really helping the thread ;) Volker
Re: asus my logo and wine
Anything that touchs the bios directly via the OS in that manner is a bad thing (tm) imho , I seriously would not recommend using wine to run such apps which are potentially dodgy even running under thier native platform . Dale. Caleb Sawtell wrote: Nick Rout wrote: On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 11:18, Caleb Sawtell wrote: Nick Rout wrote: On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 11:02, Caleb Sawtell wrote: Hi has anyone got asus mylogo2 to work under wine? I want to change my boot up picture for my Mother Board but I ddon't want to screw my bios at the same time. has anyone got it working because I REALLY don't want to have to get windows : and yes I have done my google. :) think laterally. stop rebooting what are you on about I don't have windows and I don't want to have to get windows. i mean don't reboot and you will not need to see the boot logo screen :) OH well you se I want to have a piccy of tux there so that the few times that I do reboot I can see tuxy and also so when I take my box out of the house I can show my friends the 31337 linux box 8-)
Re: Newbie Advice
Depends where you are at and what you want to learn. Linux From Scratch and Gentoo are jump in at the deep end approaches. Probably not the most suitable to begin with on a machine of that spec, we are trying to promote interest , not scare them off with a 16 day install to a gui approach .. Cheers Dale.
Re: Blender 3D Modeller
ROCK ON !! Matthew Gregan wrote: DUDE! At 2004-10-18T17:00:12+1300, Caleb Sawtell wrote: Douglas Royds wrote: I'm interested. WOO Christopher Sawtell wrote: Hi Clugers There was some discussion about Blender at last nights meeting. If anyone is interested I could do a small talk sometime about how to model a and colour a penguin in blender. :-) === This email, including any attachments, is only for the intended addressee. It is subject to copyright, is confidential and may be the subject of legal or other privilege, none of which is waived or lost by reason of this transmission. If the receiver is not the intended addressee, please accept our apologies, notify us by return, delete all copies and perform no other act on the email. Unfortunately, we cannot warrant that the email has not been altered or corrupted during transmission. ===
Re: contradiction
http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/416477030f4b46c02740c0a87f9906e3/Product/View/XH8181 First hit at www.dse.co.nz ... Supported in 2.4.* kernels . Dale. Volker Kuhlmann wrote: I'm having continuing problems with my DSE XH 8181. Which is a television, soldering iron, ...? Altho it mounts auto
Re: Suse 9.1 OpenOffice problem
Its always nice to start the morning with a bit of humor . Dale. Christopher Sawtell wrote: On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 14:10, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: See, Gentoo does it correctly. Feel better now? Not really, it's not of any real consequence. I'm merely stating a fact. I'm fully aware that you can take a horse to water but cannot make it drink.
Re: Wine on Darwin
Steve Bell wrote: So does that mean that if I have X11 installed on my mac that (if I installed darwine) Just a note.. you dont need to install Darwin to get X and co to build from source etc , X comes bundled with most recent OSX versions and to get a toolchain /base for building from source etc all is required is Xcode and fink . Cheers Dale. Thanks all for your input so far - I'm tryna take it all in! Steve
Re: Debian upgrade stable - unstable fails
As below , usually worthwhile syncing to testing prior to moving to unstable if you have anything aside a relatively minimum install , unstable is quite often in flux , that way you get things up to a currentish level prior to making the big step . Cheers Dale. Rex Johnston wrote: Roy Britten wrote: $ sudo apt-get -f install I'm afraid you've borked the installation with your apt-get remove. The new dependencies mean that it's trying to install 'new' packages, which it can't `cos you've got an 'old' kernel. Either 1) Fix up your packages by pointing to unstable for a while. Then point back to unstable make a new kernel your first apt-get install. 2) Grab a vanilla kernel, install that, then continue below. I'm assuming that it's kernel-image that's required (kernel-doc, kernel-headers, kernel-patch, kernel-source and kernel-tree are also available). I seem to run into dependency issues whether or not I choose a 2.4 or 2.6 kernel: Umm, no. It's the actual kernel that you are running that is stopping the libc6 installation, it's not strictly a dependency (from the message it reads that way anyhow). Cheers, Rex
Re: Suse on a Packard Bell Laptop
Christopher Sawtell wrote: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:26, Nick Rout wrote: use mplayer the codec collection is here. ftp://linux.jetstreamgames.co.nz/dist/gentoo/distfiles/win32codecs-200407 03.tar.bz2 yes but can you locate the suse rpm for it? By Jupiter, he's lucky today. http://packman.links2linux.de/index.php4?action=128vn=2 Via http://www.mplayerhq.hu/ But please note that I have absolutely no idea whether that file has the codecs included. If not, he'll just have to d/l the file from jetstreamgames, 7176589 bytes, and extract the codec .dlls into the right place. When mplayer starts it loads what it wants according to the file being played. Isn't it so much simpler just to say: 'emerge mplayer', and then toddle off to bed to find that everything just works in the morning? or apt-get mplayer and not worry about having to nap in between .
Re: Suse on a Packard Bell Laptop
Dale Anderson wrote: Christopher Sawtell wrote: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:26, Nick Rout wrote: use mplayer the codec collection is here. ftp://linux.jetstreamgames.co.nz/dist/gentoo/distfiles/win32codecs-200407 03.tar.bz2 yes but can you locate the suse rpm for it? By Jupiter, he's lucky today. http://packman.links2linux.de/index.php4?action=128vn=2 Via http://www.mplayerhq.hu/ But please note that I have absolutely no idea whether that file has the codecs included. If not, he'll just have to d/l the file from jetstreamgames, 7176589 bytes, and extract the codec .dlls into the right place. When mplayer starts it loads what it wants according to the file being played. Isn't it so much simpler just to say: 'emerge mplayer', and then toddle off to bed to find that everything just works in the morning? or apt-get mplayer and not worry about having to nap in between . mmm pays to check posts prior to sending , when half asleep . add an appropriate install
Re: Right way to compile Debian packages?
Exactly atm gentoo is a huge mess, I used to be an avid fan as a few list members can probably recall , if your using debian might as well stick with it , it does the job and nicely once you get to know it , all distros (yes including SuSe ) have there flaws (alot (tm) in many cases), Debian imho still has the most reliable PM exisiting atm , and you usually have to do something really bad (tm) to blow an install up. Dale. Fisher, Robert (FXNZ CHC) wrote: Right. But that's no easier than, for example, Debian: $ apt-get update $ apt-get upgrade (or dist-upgrade) ...or any other distribution with an online updates mechanism.
Re: Mandrake Applications
Looks interesting , can you use povray etc as external renderers ? Cheers Dale. On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 15:18, Vik Olliver wrote: ArtOfIllusion
Re: DNS Servers
It does , just you wont have your domain resolved if the boxen dumps itself , most registras stipulate a primary/secondary ip . Dale. Andy George wrote: Time to point out that per domain, two active and different DNS servers on 2 different IPs are required. A single home IP isn't enough... This is exactly what I mean. Newbies LOVE this kind of thing! OK... Two DNS Servers, Two IPs... Gotcha... Now, Why doesnt one work? Andy George --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 1/09/2003
Re: Apple Airport cards
Yeah Steve Job's basically = NeXT , doesnt mean the entire code base was used in OSX , Job's moved back to Apple late in the scene OSX was already under development prior to Job's taking up the helm again(iirc), and by that stage other 3rd parties had an IP interest in the *Step base so wholesale flogging of the code base was unlikely. Rapsody and other such things had been tried in the interim . As previously stated OSX =! NeXTStep , while it may share some vaugue traits/references and is helmed by the same guy in no way is OSX a reborn (tm) NeXT . Dale. On Tue, 2004-08-10 at 02:23, Kim Robertson wrote: Hi, And where was it the Steve Jobs worked after leaving apple before coming back? With the layoffs of 1985 Jobs lost a power struggle with John Sculley, and after a short hiatus reappeared with new funding to create the NeXT corporation. from http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Jobs.html Hmmm interesting : ) From Kim On 9/08/2004, at 4:21 PM, Dale Anderson wrote: Ah since when does iBook = NeXT ?? Being that NexT =! an OS, NeXTSTEP was the OS , which moved to OpenStep as a joint venture with Sun (iirc) for a very short period. OSX has some very LOOSE nexstep fundamentals ie some of the FSH and app bundle concepts etc , but that's where the similarities end , OSX has a different kernel/toolchain/FSH/GUI etc etc etc . Dale. - Original Message - From: Michael JasonSmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: linux users [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:55 PM Subject: Re: Apple Airport cards On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 13:15, Nick Rout wrote: thanks, not that i am sure i would convert an ibook to linux as it is already running Unix I would not bother putting Linux on an iBook, as NeXT is a really good version of Unix (unless you are concerned with freedom :) -- Michael JasonSmith http://www.ldots.org/
Re: Apple Airport cards
Ah since when does iBook = NeXT ?? Being that NexT =! an OS, NeXTSTEP was the OS , which moved to OpenStep as a joint venture with Sun (iirc) for a very short period. OSX has some very LOOSE nexstep fundamentals ie some of the FSH and app bundle concepts etc , but that's where the similarities end , OSX has a different kernel/toolchain/FSH/GUI etc etc etc . Dale. - Original Message - From: Michael JasonSmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: linux users [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:55 PM Subject: Re: Apple Airport cards On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 13:15, Nick Rout wrote: thanks, not that i am sure i would convert an ibook to linux as it is already running Unix I would not bother putting Linux on an iBook, as NeXT is a really good version of Unix (unless you are concerned with freedom :) -- Michael JasonSmith http://www.ldots.org/
Re: Apple Airport cards
So ? So does GNUStep , how does that = NeXT ,? all that proves is they both use Obj-C , you will find similar references in GNUStep and a variety of other Obj-C projects, not to mention one of the main points of NeXTSTEP was the programming interface (ie obj-c ) which apple also splatter with a mixture of C++ hooks etc etc just to add to thier uniformity (tm) . OSX is incedentally based on Darwin NOT BSD , while Darwin maintains some of the underpinnings of BSD there are alot (tm) of differences . Packaging incidentally ISNT the same as NeXT , while Apple use the concept of app bundles in OSX they also have a crap load of horrible symlinks and other such crud to provide a *nix compat. FSH also , and the OS itself uses a variety of methods to keep things happy between the user experienced app bundles, the systems lib bundles and non bundled applications and libraries . Dale. Michael JasonSmith wrote: On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 16:21, Dale Anderson wrote: OSX has some very LOOSE nexstep fundamentals ie some of the FSH and app bundle concepts etc , but that's where the similarities end , OSX has a different kernel/toolchain/FSH/GUI etc etc etc . MacOS X has more in common with NeXT Step than any other operating system, MacOS 9 included. For example, look at the COCA Appliation Kit API[1] NSBrowser, NSPICTImageRep, NSCursor, NSSlider, NSText What does the NS stand for? It ain't Standford University Network :) At a more fundamental level, MacOS X is a variant of BSD running on a MACH microkernel, mich like NeXT. True, its GUI system uses PDF, rather than Display PostScript, but the former is almost the same as the latter except for the absence of some of the standard PostScipt control structures and file-IO. As you nicely point out, the packaging system are also the same :P It is not unknown for computer companies to perform reverse takeovers. Be Inc took over Palm in much the same way as NeXT took over Apple[2]. [1] http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Reference/ApplicationKit/Java/ [2] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/06/25/be_inc_completes_takeover/
Re: Jetstream games realm to be axed
Yeah well I guess they have to do something ...Telecom;s package prices are no where near in the relm of TelstraClears .I can see them loosing a large margin of users in the areas that are supoprted by cable . Dale. On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 00:03, Ross Drummond wrote: To increase profits, reduce services. Way to go Theresa. Read more at; [Line may wrap] http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3581795thesection=businessthesubsection=telecommunicationsthesecondsubsection=general Cheers Ross Drummond On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 17:43, Nick Rout wrote: I read on the adsl list that Telecom are to axe the jetstreamgames realm as part of the current or pending changes to the way they sell and wholesale jetstream/bitstream. This will be a pity as it has been a fantastic way to download iso's and other linux stuff free of charge.
Re: Which file does a disk block belong to??
other_stuff
/other_stuff
important_bit
Here the kernel log:
Jul 30 22:35:43 ruru kernel: hda: dma_intr: status=0x59 { DriveReady SeekComplete
DataRequest Error }
Jul 30 22:35:43 ruru kernel: hda: dma_intr: error=0x01 { AddrMarkNotFound },
LBAsect=6815180, high=0, low=6815180, sector=6814976
[3 more]
Jul 30 22:35:47 ruru kernel: hda: DMA disabled
Jul 30 22:35:47 ruru kernel: hdb: DMA disabled
Jul 30 22:35:47 ruru kernel: ide0: reset: success
This also shows the stupidity the Linux kernel exhibits when trying to
be smart with hard disks which may not be capable of DMA: turn off DMA
permanently and see if it works better. Fine during boot, plain stupid
a few hours later. And gee thanks for turning DMA off on my dvdrom
drive too. 2.6 is no better than 2.4 here.
/important_bit
I think you will find this is purely distro specific , alot renable DMA
where possible once init has completed successfully (aka the gentoo that
many here seem to adore) , and personally id prefer to see it disabled
by default if dma isnt detected than it fsck' over the FS or whatever
else it decides is of little use at the time if the disk *doesnt*
support dma
I dont see a safe default as stupidity at all especially when alot
could potentially be at stake ...
(ie potentially the contents the forementioned joe user would like to
keep and probably shifted to linux to try and retain)
Whats the point in shifting to the stable alternative if it stupidly
defaults to a potentially unstable implementation.
Dale.
Re: Disk Failures in General
Put it this way all of the major HDD manufacturers over the past 612 months have reduced the warrenties on general consumer level drives ..I think it is however more of a case of the user does the testing rather than inhouse prior to shipping .as with the case of most products these days . Dale. steve wrote: Hi Folks, The bad blocks thread seems to have been quite a timely one in my case, as the HDD in my workstation seems to have lost a platter at lunchtime yesterday ): I was really after a more general idea about the quality of disks these days. When I were a lad, and hard disks were either 5 or 10 MB in size, the first thing you did was a low level scan and manually map all of the bad sectors. You expected to have to do this every few months to keep it all healthy. Things evolved to disks of the size of a GB or so, and apart from things being more or less automated, the biggest change was that you didn't expect to get any new bad blocks once the disk was up, formatted and running. The appearance of a bad block immediately made the disk suspect. The usual precursor to a failed disk was a bad block, then another one a month later, then a week, then an hour, then dead. Now, with this 80GB that's just gone bang, there was no warning, It just looks like one sector in 8 is unreadable. Is it now the case that the disks of today are less robust than they used to be? If so, I'm going to start using soft mirroring as a first line of defence! And keep the receipts! I'd be interested in other peoples experiences. Cheers, Steve
Re: IMAP/whatever/email + procmail
im sure we can add in ipv6 support there somewhere too make a neat mix ;-) Dale. On Fri, 2004-07-30 at 23:16, Matthew Gregan wrote: At 2004-07-30T20:16:08+1200, Jim Cheetham wrote: Yes, sure. The list to request just what part of email (as long as it isn't qmail) they want, we can tie absolutely anything in with procmail :-) How about something on building advanced UUCP to BitNet gateways with Sendmail? Alternatively, a demonstration on how to build extremely high volume commercial email delivery engines with Exim would be great too. ;-) Cheers, -mjg
Re: ncd explora X terminals
OMG my eyes my eyes ,.how can we be subjected to such blasphemous scenes ;-) Dale. C. Falconer wrote: I had an email about some bloody cheap hitachi 13 LCD monitors... But by the time I got the email they were all gone :-\ I do have an 800x600 LCD to sell... http://criggie.dyndns.org/trademe/lcd/ Anyone make an offer :) -Original Message- From: Michael Pearce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 30 July 2004 1:47 p.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ncd explora X terminals Oh - to keep it relavent to topic - I intend to use the NCD X Term I have as the one in the pantry - just need to get a cheap LCD pannel from somewhere. Mike
Re: GNU-less linux distributions
Being that uname can and has been patched , has been broken in more ways than one in its existance and currently still requires patches in latest coreutils to return the expected output ...I dont quite see how this provides closure (tm) ...nor is it really worthwhile. Dale. InfoHelp wrote: Interesting.. Thanks for that. Carl Cerecke wrote: Related to the discussions around GNU and Linux of late: You don't need any GNU software to run linux: perllinux.sourceforge.net Cheers, Carl. We appear to have touched a nerve. Last week, when I simply asked anyone else was positive about GNU to please speak up (though not about changing CLUG's name), I truly had no idea what a can of worms was being opened. This is a necessary part of the Linux learning curve.. When a gory mess is unfurling before one's eyes, one has to make a choice: recoil in horror, or don surgical gloves. On the 60th anniversary of Monte Casino, I need not explain which is the Kiwi way. As a means of progressing this issue towards useful closure, please go to a terminal console. Issue these commands: $ uname -s (--kernel-name) $ uname -o (--operating-system) Let's treat this as a survey - please post results back to the list. I can tell you for starters, that Fedora RedHat return the same: [EMAIL PROTECTED] rik $ uname -s Linux [EMAIL PROTECTED] rik $ uname -o GNU/Linux hth
Re: GNU-less linux distributions
Well I dont see how distros patching uname to display such proves anything ...SCO group is pretty much a ship with too smaller bailing buckets InfoHelp wrote: Edit, less haste: On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:04:51 +1200, InfoHelp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 20:40:20 +1200, Dale Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Being that uname can and has been patched , has been broken in more ways than one in its existance and currently still requires patches in latest coreutils to return the expected output ...I dont quite see how this provides closure (tm) ...nor is it really worthwhile. Dale. Is it or is it not a statement by the Distro team of what type Operating System they are distributing? Is a closure (tm) that helps get SCO off our backs in the marketplace not really worthwhile? Rik -- GNU/Linux Users - charting the course - prototype7: Fedora/SuSE/Mandrake-Slackware/Gentoo/LFS-(Perl/Linux)-Debian/BSD- GNU/Hurd
Re: Gettin crafty with Wine
Yes ..check google there are various sites explaining how to do it ...requires a few other native dll's etc etc ...otherewise check out www.codeweavers.com ..only question is why ? Dale. On Wed, 2004-07-07 at 07:40, Andy George wrote: I wonder... if it's possible to run EXPLORER.EXE from windows 9*, in wine, and have it execute windows apps from there... Has anyone ever tried this? Andy George DJ for the Mr Whippy Van
Re: nvidia on slashdot
/me waits in baited anticipation of some of the opencores stuff to get moving . ;p Dale. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 10:29 PM Subject: Re: nvidia on slashdot On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:10:59 +1200 Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ethical philosophy lecture Open Source advocates say that the argument is about the quality of the resultant code. (a consequentialist or utilitarian view) The Free Software Foundation say that it is morally wrong to buy, write or sell proprietary software. (a deontological or Kantian approach) /ethical philosophy lecture this is where it gets difficult for me, are you also saying that an author of a book should not get royalties of be able to have copyright protection? where is the difference? people train to become programmers, and some become good at it. they write software. why shouldn't they sell it if they want to? i don't see how it can be immoral, as long as people have an effective choice about whether to use it. choice about whether to use it probably means that it should stick to some standard, like an rfc or whatever, or publish its api. mmm tonite I must have time to spare ;) I'd stay away from moral and I'd rather talk about ethics, but it's not necessary IMHO to invoke ethics either :) They sell hardware not a software product, so the whole book writer argument doesn't apply. A driver for a fast evolving product like linux should not be binary, if they value their IP (laugh) more than the cost of maintaining the binary driver minus revenues from linux user, well good for them... they will not have meee ;) cheers -- Delio
Re: A Complete Beginner
On the likes of xandros you might also find you have a horribly broken OS to by going from a 2.4 2.6 kernel depending on how device support/module loading etc is handled ..is xandros currently running 2.6.* ? Dale. On Sat, 2004-06-26 at 19:11, Christopher Sawtell wrote: On Saturday 26 June 2004 07:53, Kevin Cosgrove wrote: I have just installed Xandros on my computer but cannot get a driver for my Winfast VC100 capture card. Can some one help me because I would like to continue usinig Linux. I have emailed the suppliers nut no luck. They dont have one I'm not sure if all this is appropriate for a A Complete Beginner but we all have to jump in somewhere. Note that I do not have either a copy of the Xandros distribution nor a Winfast VC100 capture card. However I think it is very possible that the latest Linux kernel has the drivers ready for you. Xandros _might_ distribute the modules ready compiled. Find out with the command:- find /lib -iname 'bttv*' -ls If you get a line of output then the driver is ready built, and you can install it using the modprobe or insmod command, if not then you need to build it. Get a copy of the latest kernel archive, linux-2.6.7.tar.bz2 and un-archive it. Debian and derivatives have their particular ways of doing this. If you scan the file /usr/src/linux/Documentation/video4linux/CARDLIST.bttv you will see a line:- card=114 - Winfast VC100 Now read the:- file:/usr/src/linux/Documentation/video4linux/bttv/README quote To use the driver I use the following options, the tuner and pll settings might be different in your country insmod videodev insmod i2c scan=1 i2c_debug=0 verbose=0 insmod tuner type=1 debug=0 insmod bttv pll=1 radio=1 card=17 /quote Fairly obviously you will have to use the correct card number ( card=114 ) and probably experiment with the other settings. See also the other files in that directory. You might care to reference the home of video4linux http://linux.bytesex.org/ in particular:- http://dl.bytesex.org/patches/2.6.7-1/ It would almost certainly be a good idea to apply the appropriate patches. The new and horrendously comprehensive kernel Building HOWTO is also very relevent:- http://www.digitalhermit.com/linux/ With a lot of reading between the lines and a considerable amount of experimenting, I think this card could be got to go. btw folks, is this sort of thing appropriate for the InstallFest?
Re: Question:Telstra cable connection Mandrake 10
I currently run a variety of linux/BSD servers behind my own Web/DNS/FW server , the primary issue here is to get a new linux user connected to the net is it not , hense why I had not mentioned firewalls etc in the initial post . My thinking re this situation is to get the new user up and running and groking the basics before bombarding them with a whole heap of new info . Is it not better to provide the easy (abit insecure)solution rather than scare them off before getting started . At the end of the day if it is a desktop box that isnt running 24x7 (ie only powered up when required) and they are using for desktop use only I consider spending $$ on extra boxes and the power to run them a waste of time .if you are a advid user and have the box running 24x7 then yeah sure . BTW you can setup a FW on your local machine also . Dale. - Original Message - From: G Chinnery [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 6:56 PM Subject: Re: Question:Telstra cable connection Mandrake 10 As a telstra cable user, my advise is to go and build a cheap firewall like smoothwall or something and run it through that. a hub or switch would be good but you don't need one if your only running 1 computer. Its easy to set up and if you decide to go that way I will offer any help you need as I run 4 of these myself. G.Chinnery. Dale Anderson wrote: How are you using the modem ...via ethernet card or USB ? Via ethernet all you need to do is set your IP and plug it in . The driver it is refering to will be your networkcard driver not the external modem. Dale. On Thu, 2004-06-10 at 17:16, Ataif wrote: Hi, I'm new to this list, and to Linux, and I know b*gger all about computers, but I need to reconnect my PC now that I've installed Linux (Mandrake 10). I get to the point where I'm asked what network/driver to use and I haven't a clue. How do I find this out. I presume the modem (Motorola Surfboard hired from TelstraClear) is a standard one and that it should be easy, but Telstra's help deask say it isn't worth the company's time rtying to support Linux. There is a guy there called Bob who might ring me when he comes back from leave or something, but I wondered if anyone else could help me. Thanks, John Edmundson
Re: Question:Telstra cable connection Mandrake 10
How are you using the modem ...via ethernet card or USB ? Via ethernet all you need to do is set your IP and plug it in . The driver it is refering to will be your networkcard driver not the external modem. Dale. On Thu, 2004-06-10 at 17:16, Ataif wrote: Hi, I'm new to this list, and to Linux, and I know b*gger all about computers, but I need to reconnect my PC now that I've installed Linux (Mandrake 10). I get to the point where I'm asked what network/driver to use and I haven't a clue. How do I find this out. I presume the modem (Motorola Surfboard hired from TelstraClear) is a standard one and that it should be easy, but Telstra's help deask say it isn't worth the company's time rtying to support Linux. There is a guy there called Bob who might ring me when he comes back from leave or something, but I wondered if anyone else could help me. Thanks, John Edmundson
Re: gnome desktop trouble
Is nautilus actually drawing the desktop ? It 'd pay to go through gconf-editor and have a look to see how gnome is currently setup in regards to the desktop Dale. On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 19:27, Michael wrote: Hi, In an act of purist optimism I thought I'd resubmit a question I asked ages ago. I didn't get one response last time so I'm not expecting any better this time. I cannot add or even see any icons on my gnome desktop. I have a Desktop directory in my /home but I am unable to change the blank desktop in any way. When I right-click on the desktop I don't even get a menu. I have checked file ownerships and privileges. Any new user I create has this poblem. ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS? Also, what gnome based application is there for user/group management. I mean, to add/create users and alter their profiles NOT at a command-line based level. Michael.
Re: Michael's Minute: Bill - I don't want your $1,158
n not again . /me sobs ;-) - Original Message - From: dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: clug [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 8:18 PM Subject: Fwd: Michael's Minute: Bill - I don't want your $1,158 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 hope you all don´t mind much, thought this would be of interest to some folks here. - -- Forwarded Message -- Michael's Minute: Bill - I don't want your $1,158 - ---Original Message--- Subject: Bill - I don't want your $1,158 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill, As you were probably informed over the weekend, your legal team lost the latest court battle against Lindows, Inc. in the windows trademark case. This time we were in a Dutch courtroom, where the Judge ruled against Microsoft on all counts. Here's a link to the English translation of the ruling. The ruling states that we can continue to use Lindows as we are now using it, but most telling was the Judge's monetary finding. In a case that Microsoft initiated and asked the Judge to fine us 100,000 euros per day, the Judge ruled the opposite direction and told Microsoft to pay us $1,158. But truth be told, I don't want Microsoft's money, I just want a chance to compete and grow my company. If you can think back to when you started Microsoft, sure there were big companies like IBM, but they didn't use the ruthless tactics that Microsoft now employs. How could you have built your company in that kind of environment? No, I don't want your money, I just want to compete without Microsoft terrorizing us and everyone in the PC business who works with us. It's tough building a business when hardware partners are told they will lose access to Microsoft tier 1 support if they help us. Resellers get squeamish when they get lawsuit threats from Microsoft. Retailers are hesitant when there is veiled innuendo that they may not be eligible for the MDF market development funds that you provide to them, which are key to their profitability. And of course, Lindows is bothered by your legal strategy to bury us with lawsuits. I understand that Lindows is the most obvious target of Microsoft's actions, since we challenge Microsoft's power base - the desktop. I think we'd have a lot more than 350 OEMs if so many weren't intimidated by Microsoft. We'd probably have more stores carrying our computers with our one-click easy operating system if they didn't fear retaliation just for talking with us. Of course, I'm keenly aware of how Microsoft has vanquished so many competitors in the past. To the portion of that success which can be attributed to healthy competition, you have my respect. But some portion has been built on dirty tactics, and I'm asking you to rethink using that strategy with desktop Linux and my company, Lindows. Occasionally we hear from Microsoft employees who follow Lindows, and their reaction surprises me. (Hundreds of Microsoft employees receive the weekly Michael's Minute.) The first thing they usually do is apologize for the corporate behavior of lawsuits, bogus reports, and other underhanded tactics. They know the corporate mantra is we like competition, but behind the scenes try to kill it. But they TRULY do want competition. They believe they can compete. They know that having Netscape around made them build Internet Explorer, but since Netscape was wiped out, Internet Explorer has stagnated. Bill - I encourage you to poll your employees and ask them yourself. I'm confident that they'll say they want to compete head-to-head with Linux in an wholesome manner. Do you believe that Microsoft can compete with Linux? Do you believe in your employees? Do you believe in your products? I encourage you to consider abandoning the litigation and terror strategy. No more backing of lawsuits for trademark, patent or copyright issues against Linux. No more threatening of companies that add Linux to their product line-up. Just straight up competition against Linux. Your employees will thank you, and it will usher in an era of healthy competition in the PC business. - -- Michael - -- Dave Lilley -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAvt73tAOVws1ghq0RAnGvAKCCjj2GbrW9DyugeuW5VAzpoXFvOQCeKj+n UkM0WIMXzbre6rf+HjUdfbE= =QJHG -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Michael's Minute: Bill - I don't want your $1,158
Yeah the court case's have been rather interesting .definitly up there with the current SCO movement ;-) the latest bit at groklaw is rather a laugh I really do wonder what the SCO Group is smoking .. Dale. - Original Message - From: Nick Elder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:19 PM Subject: Re: Michael's Minute: Bill - I don't want your $1,158 Hi, I found the email of interest as I have been following Linspire's fight with M$ (the evil empire) for these past months. The website version has a few other links: http://www.linspire.com/lindows_michaelsminutes.phpLinspire was forced by the courts to change their name from Lindows in several countries recently (incase you didn't already know this). If you think the name Michael Robertson rings a bell with you then its probably because he used to be in the news with his controversial company some years back called mp3.com. Google just now found this about Michael: http://history.acusd.edu/gen/recording/robertson.html Nick Elder On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 21:05, Dale Anderson wrote: n not again . /me sobs ;-) - Original Message - From: dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: clug [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 8:18 PM Subject: Fwd: Michael's Minute: Bill - I don't want your $1,158 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 hope you all don´t mind much, thought this would be of interest to some folks here. - -- Forwarded Message -- Michael's Minute: Bill - I don't want your $1,158 - ---Original Message--- Subject: Bill - I don't want your $1,158 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill, As you were probably informed over the weekend, your legal team lost the latest court battle against Lindows, Inc. in the windows trademark case. This time we were in a Dutch courtroom, where the Judge ruled against Microsoft on all counts. Here's a link to the English translation of the ruling. The ruling states that we can continue to use Lindows as we are now using it, but most telling was the Judge's monetary finding. In a case that Microsoft initiated and asked the Judge to fine us 100,000 euros per day, the Judge ruled the opposite direction and told Microsoft to pay us $1,158. But truth be told, I don't want Microsoft's money, I just want a chance to compete and grow my company. If you can think back to when you started Microsoft, sure there were big companies like IBM, but they didn't use the ruthless tactics that Microsoft now employs. How could you have built your company in that kind of environment? No, I don't want your money, I just want to compete without Microsoft terrorizing us and everyone in the PC business who works with us. It's tough building a business when hardware partners are told they will lose access to Microsoft tier 1 support if they help us. Resellers get squeamish when they get lawsuit threats from Microsoft. Retailers are hesitant when there is veiled innuendo that they may not be eligible for the MDF market development funds that you provide to them, which are key to their profitability. And of course, Lindows is bothered by your legal strategy to bury us with lawsuits. I understand that Lindows is the most obvious target of Microsoft's actions, since we challenge Microsoft's power base - the desktop. I think we'd have a lot more than 350 OEMs if so many weren't intimidated by Microsoft. We'd probably have more stores carrying our computers with our one-click easy operating system if they didn't fear retaliation just for talking with us. Of course, I'm keenly aware of how Microsoft has vanquished so many competitors in the past. To the portion of that success which can be attributed to healthy competition, you have my respect. But some portion has been built on dirty tactics, and I'm asking you to rethink using that strategy with desktop Linux and my company, Lindows. Occasionally we hear from Microsoft employees who follow Lindows, and their reaction surprises me. (Hundreds of Microsoft employees receive the weekly Michael's Minute.) The first thing they usually do is apologize for the corporate behavior of lawsuits, bogus reports, and other underhanded tactics. They know the corporate mantra is we like competition, but behind the scenes try to kill it. But they TRULY do want competition. They believe they can compete. They know that having Netscape around made them build Internet Explorer, but since Netscape was wiped out, Internet Explorer has stagnated. Bill - I encourage you to poll your employees and ask them yourself. I'm confident that they'll say they want to compete head-to-head with Linux in an wholesome manner. Do you believe that Microsoft can compete with Linux? Do you believe in your employees? Do you believe in your products? I encourage you to consider abandoning the litigation
Re: Which shell to use - Was: opening urls from evolution?
I take it you havent used BSD for a while ? Dale. On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 09:29, Nick Rout wrote: On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 09:07:47 +1200 Jim Cheetham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: steve wrote: To hijack the thread a bit ( well, it was pretty dead anyway... :), why is it that every distro that I know of uses bash as it's default shell? Before you jump down my throat, isn't there a real case for root to have a statically linked shell, just in case the shared libs get corrupted? Yes, but ... The problem always used to be that root should have a shell on / so that you could run your system up in single-user mode (i.e. without /usr and so on). Bash, being extra software would live in /usr/local or /opt, and therefore not be available, because these are commonly separate volumes. The static linking bit was related to the same case, with much stuff being in /usr/lib. One of the subtelties is the difference between /bin and /usr/bin (as well as /lib and /usr/lib), with the common case being that /(bin|lib) contained your single-user-mode programs, especially the programs that could mount other file-systems during startup. However, these days there seems to be much more reliance on an external boot mechanism, like CD or network, being used in an emergency. I think that's more true than the MS-like reinstall mantra. On my systems (2 gentoo, one redhat (aging)) bash is in /bin, and is linked to a small number of libraries in /lib, so there is nothing in /usr It would be unusual in the extreme to put /bin or /lib on anything other than the root partition. My experience with the BSD's (free/open) is that : 1. they use the barest shell, /bin/sh IIRC by default. 2. they have a more traditional file system with a lot more being in the /usr tree by default. bash is under /usr/local/bin/bash IIRC [1], so is probably not on the root filesystem. [1] I know this because I screwed up in a big way on freebsd once by changing root's shell in /etc/passwd to /bin/bash, which didn't exist and root could not log in, and i had logged out before i realised. bugger. now i might have the skills to fix it, then it was the MS solution we are presently decrying. I reinstalled, after first upskilling on chsh (change shell) and vi (which is invoked by chsh). luckily Ihad only just finished and no data was lost. If you think debian or gentoo are hard to install, try freebsd or openbsd.
Re: Which shell to use - Was: opening urls from evolution?
I personally found (admitadly the partitioning scheme is different to Linux ) it not much different to installing Debian ...(freeBSD 5.2-RELEASE) once installed the bsd setup gui has a binary package installer which makes installing a DE a breeze( /stand/sysinstall) ...the nvidia binary driver install is insainely easy to compared to its linux counterpart .(ie dowlnload from nvidia.com , execute and restart X ..all done and no b0rk'd gl libs) The default shell is csh iirc (which does most things bash will do if configured right ). The only thing I disliked was the lack of SW raid support from install :\ but the install was a no brainer really ...the 2 main differences are the partitioning scheme and the module loader (which is similar to debians /etc/modules setup really ) The desktop latancy of freebsd 5.2 is on par with a patched 2.6 kernel imho , very nice OS . Your quite right theres no eye-candy-to-the-max installer ...but the ncurses one is easy enough to navigate . The one thing that put me off is the IRC channels ;-) (again similar to debian's ...not for the average newb unless kevlair equiped ;-) ) Dale. On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 10:24, Nick Rout wrote: No, tell me off if I am spreading fud, i haven't used either open or free for a while. whats changed? Its not so much the installation was too hard if you read the docs and especially if you could grok the partitioning system they use, it just required more work than boot-cd-and-click-on-icons. And not as well documented (IMHO) as something like gentoo, which holds your hand very tight. The problem with the BSD docs was that they seemed to assume a certain degree of knowledge, once you dig around and find the knowledge it was ok. Again, not a newbie experience. I'd like to give FreeBSD another go, especially if the experience has changed. On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 11:12:57 +1200 Dale Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I take it you havent used BSD for a while ? Dale. On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 09:29, Nick Rout wrote: On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 09:07:47 +1200 Jim Cheetham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: steve wrote: To hijack the thread a bit ( well, it was pretty dead anyway... :), why is it that every distro that I know of uses bash as it's default shell? Before you jump down my throat, isn't there a real case for root to have a statically linked shell, just in case the shared libs get corrupted? Yes, but ... The problem always used to be that root should have a shell on / so that you could run your system up in single-user mode (i.e. without /usr and so on). Bash, being extra software would live in /usr/local or /opt, and therefore not be available, because these are commonly separate volumes. The static linking bit was related to the same case, with much stuff being in /usr/lib. One of the subtelties is the difference between /bin and /usr/bin (as well as /lib and /usr/lib), with the common case being that /(bin|lib) contained your single-user-mode programs, especially the programs that could mount other file-systems during startup. However, these days there seems to be much more reliance on an external boot mechanism, like CD or network, being used in an emergency. I think that's more true than the MS-like reinstall mantra. On my systems (2 gentoo, one redhat (aging)) bash is in /bin, and is linked to a small number of libraries in /lib, so there is nothing in /usr It would be unusual in the extreme to put /bin or /lib on anything other than the root partition. My experience with the BSD's (free/open) is that : 1. they use the barest shell, /bin/sh IIRC by default. 2. they have a more traditional file system with a lot more being in the /usr tree by default. bash is under /usr/local/bin/bash IIRC [1], so is probably not on the root filesystem. [1] I know this because I screwed up in a big way on freebsd once by changing root's shell in /etc/passwd to /bin/bash, which didn't exist and root could not log in, and i had logged out before i realised. bugger. now i might have the skills to fix it, then it was the MS solution we are presently decrying. I reinstalled, after first upskilling on chsh (change shell) and vi (which is invoked by chsh). luckily Ihad only just finished and no data was lost. If you think debian or gentoo are hard to install, try freebsd or openbsd.
Re: Which shell to use - Was: opening urls from evolution?
Maybe it'd be interesting to get few BSD mavhines into the demo part of the installfest? (I'd be interested to see if people who sat down to kde for a short play around could tell the difference!) I doubt they would notice the difference ...apart from the better latancy than a 2.4 Linux kernel ;-) Dale.
Re: Gentoo Linux partition repair? - Reiserfs
Just backup the entire partion (remember to retain permissions, pax is good for such things ) mkfs.*foo* and then copy back Id go for XFS on a desktop boxen fast ,stable and plays nice with all current kernels .but thats only MOH im sure theres plenty of JFS/Reiser/EXT* advocates out there who would disagree . Cheers Dale. On Thu, 27 May 2004 11:14, InfoHelp wrote: Hi folks, thanks Nick for looking at the fault yesterday. Out of my Drafts folder comes where the install left off last week.. Nick Rout wrote: unmount the partition which you want to check run the fsck on the partition, not the mount point. (ie the parameter is /dev/hda6 not /mnt/hda6) ok - done successfully from SuSE install, but boot to Gentoo still says: Partition /dev/hda6 is mounted with write permissions, cannot check it * Fsck could not correct all errors, manual repair needed [!!] This is after boot process has: ... Adding swap [ok] * Remounting root filesystem read-only (if necessary)...[ok] * Checking root filesystem... [ok] * Remounting root filesystem read/write... [ok] add read-only to your kernel line in grub so that it boots readonly from nowe on, and fsck can check it. is that assuming I have a separate /boot partition - I have not. Seems to have been accepted from Grub ok though. Update: Nick checked the mount permissions, reran fsck, but the above error message remains. Looks like I've fscked (literally) Gentoo's partition whilst it was mounted. Foobar!! Gentoo boots is ready to use, but it doesn't seem safe to continue with its filesystem in the above condition. Sooo, unless there's a Reiserfs user/expert who can suggest a repair, partition reformat will follow. Short of repeating the Gentoo install, I'd like to back it up to a spare partition, reformat ext3, then reinstate it. Is this practical? Are there any dirs such as /proc that I need not copy complete, or Reiserfs stuff to leave behind? Or should I simply copy everything across? Is mounting the Gentoo partition spare partition from Suse, and using Midnight Commander to copy across the Gentoo dirs a good way to go? (I'm more confident with that than #cp /* -r /dev/newmountpoint etc.) Cheers Rik
Re: insanely large file! (was partition 100% full)
^^ .xsession_errors is usually filled by Konqueror. Time to move over to gnome? It's much more mature than kde. Care to explain furthur ? ...im a advid Gnome user (if I had to choose between KDE /Gnome ), I still dont agree . Dale. Still waiting for E 0.17 .. Steve Not necessarily, the command;- tail -f .xsession-errors will allow you to watch the tail of the file as it grows. ( CTRL-S and CTRL-Q ) allow you to stop and start the flood of text. There will probably be a meaningful message or three in there. /usr/sbin/lsof | grep '.xsession-errors' will also tell you which programs have .xsession-errors open.
Re: MSI motherboards?
looks good to me Dale. - Original Message - From: Caleb Sawtell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 11:19 AM Subject: Re: MSI motherboards? On Sat, 22 May 2004 22:28, Nick Rout wrote: On Sun, 2004-05-23 at 21:41, Caleb Sawtell wrote: On Fri, 21 May 2004 21:48, Matthew Gregan wrote: At 2004-05-22T081213+, Caleb Sawtell wrote: On Fri, 21 May 2004 10:09, Don Gould wrote: Why does the date on your mail message show up as Saturday? Dunno because it says sat now... Your timezone is wrong. Its all ok here :/ well here are your headers: Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 09:41:26 + From: Caleb Sawtell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: MSI motherboards? I know your father is from jolly mother england, but you shouldn't have your timezone set to + unless you live there :-) what is the result of the date command? Ok is it fixed now??? *sigh* what is the result of ls -l /etc/timezone (it should be pointing to /usr/share/zoneinfo/Pacific/Auckland) The other thing is, what email client are you using? evolution seems to want to be told separately where you are living (why it doesn't use your system settings is beyond me). -mjg
Re: ./configure - what am I missing?
Auto*foo* packages are worth installing as a matter of course if you are going to be building packages from source ...more and more projects are moving to autofoo , saves hassles in the long run .(note nothing in this post mentioning wether autofoo is better (tm) ;-) ) Dale. On Thu, 20 May 2004 15:11, Michael JasonSmith wrote: On Thu, 2004-05-20 at 14:58, Derek Smithies wrote: My reasoning was that if the above tools are not required, why check for their presence/absence ? However, Michael has asserted they are not required, so fine. Not required. Cheeky thing questioning me. Often configure checks for things whether they are needed or not. You may be installing a program that does require the auto-tools, but this is unlikely.
Re: console via usb
Since it appeared it got missed earlier ill repost my earlier mail. cutTheres a few kernel patches floating around for firewire (which is VERY neat for debugging) .. http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.3/0639.html for usb /cut Theres plenty of info via google etc re setting it up . Firewire is nice for debugging due to the ability to access memory space even if the kernel has completely dumped itself . Dale. - Original Message - From: Bart Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CLUG [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:13 PM Subject: Re: console via usb On 18/05/2004, at 8:16 PM, Vik Olliver wrote: On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 18:52, Paul William wrote: Hey all, Anyone know if you can get a 'Serial' Console using usb instead of a serial port? I don't really care about having a console at boot up but it would be a bonus. The only documentation I can find is about using the serial port. USB Just doesn't work that way. I have a USB - Serial adaptor that doesn't appear to have any electronics or smarts, just a redirection of the wires. I too would like to know why USB can not function as a serial port controller. Anyone ? This is my first question to the list, I hope I can help someone else sometime although I'm a Unix baby. Bart Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ./configure - what am I missing?
gentoo's broken to start with a few root install's aint going to hurt ;p /me adorns flame suit Dale. On Wed, 19 May 2004 19:20, Col wrote: Slosh wrote: On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 18:50, Col wrote: Christopher Sawtell wrote: On Wednesday 19 May 2004 17:35, Don Gould wrote: Why shouldn't I compile as root? Because one day, either directly, or indirectly using a Trojan of some kind, somebody is going to attempt to do something nasty to your machine. Indeed that person may, accidentally, be you. If you run their hidden program as root they will get root and have control of your machine. If they are nice they will only persuade you to run 'rm -rf /' ( Why don't you try it? :-) and all you will have to do is to reload the file-set, complete with the invisible trojan, from backup. On the other hand they may well have a much more insidious criminal intent, and you will end up attempting to explain to a very suspicious Mr. Plod that you did not do what you appear to have done. As a minimum, you'll end up having to find several thousand Reserve Bank purchasing tokens to pay for the excess ip traffic. On the other hand if you have only user privileges they can only damage that which is in your home directory. The Linux system itself is unharmed. For more comprehensive explanations see what Google has to say on the matter:- http://www.google.co.nz/linux?q=%22compile+as+root%22hl=enlr=ie=UTF-8 start=0sa=N IOW: Just don't do it. EVER, or read mail, or do the IRC thing, as root. Is there a way to avoid this then? $ emerge -u world emerge: root access required. Cheers Col. This is something nifty someone showed me a while ago that most people here probably already know about, so I'll get here first :D. I usually just run as a normal user and then use $ su -c some command when I need to do something as root. It will run just the command inside the . Unfortunately it doesn't support auto-completion inside the quotation marks. True, but emerge is still going to compile the gentoo updates as root. Col.
Re: ./configure - what am I missing?
Well after using it for ~ 18 months ..putting up with broken packages stuffed dep chains on multiple occasions (and NO I wasnt running ~x86) I gave up and started to run LFS ...and didnt suffer half the issues I had on this supposide automagic from source distro after trying freebsd as a comparison ..I dont think its is physically possible to stuff up a ports based system more ... The only things I enjoyed while using the fore mentioned distro were the forums (great community) and the great kernel patches supplied by lovechild and co I think its timed the hacks upon hacks (tm) to keep portage and co semi working where scrapped and this time they DESIGNED it before coding ... Dale. - Original Message - From: Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:46 PM Subject: Re: ./configure - what am I missing? On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 19:41, Dale Anderson wrote: gentoo's broken to start with a few root install's aint going to hurt ;p care to explain? then the flames may proceed... /me adorns flame suit Dale. On Wed, 19 May 2004 19:20, Col wrote: Slosh wrote: On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 18:50, Col wrote: Christopher Sawtell wrote: On Wednesday 19 May 2004 17:35, Don Gould wrote: Why shouldn't I compile as root? Because one day, either directly, or indirectly using a Trojan of some kind, somebody is going to attempt to do something nasty to your machine. Indeed that person may, accidentally, be you. If you run their hidden program as root they will get root and have control of your machine. If they are nice they will only persuade you to run 'rm -rf /' ( Why don't you try it? :-) and all you will have to do is to reload the file-set, complete with the invisible trojan, from backup. On the other hand they may well have a much more insidious criminal intent, and you will end up attempting to explain to a very suspicious Mr. Plod that you did not do what you appear to have done. As a minimum, you'll end up having to find several thousand Reserve Bank purchasing tokens to pay for the excess ip traffic. On the other hand if you have only user privileges they can only damage that which is in your home directory. The Linux system itself is unharmed. For more comprehensive explanations see what Google has to say on the matter:- http://www.google.co.nz/linux?q=%22compile+as+root%22hl=enlr=ie=UTF-8 start=0sa=N IOW: Just don't do it. EVER, or read mail, or do the IRC thing, as root. Is there a way to avoid this then? $ emerge -u world emerge: root access required. Cheers Col. This is something nifty someone showed me a while ago that most people here probably already know about, so I'll get here first :D. I usually just run as a normal user and then use $ su -c some command when I need to do something as root. It will run just the command inside the . Unfortunately it doesn't support auto-completion inside the quotation marks. True, but emerge is still going to compile the gentoo updates as root. Col.
Re: console via usb
Theres a few kernel patches floating around for firewire (which is VERY neat for debugging) .. http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.3/0639.html for usb Cheers Dale. - Original Message - From: Paul William [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CLUG [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:52 PM Subject: console via usb Hey all, Anyone know if you can get a 'Serial' Console using usb instead of a serial port? I don't really care about having a console at boot up but it would be a bonus. The only documentation I can find is about using the serial port. Cheers Paul
Re: In Action: The First True Desktop Alternative to Windows
Just a pity it is such a pos Dale. On Wed, 19 May 2004 15:04, stringer wrote: Just got this email today. Thought the group might like to see how Sun is pushing its java desktop based on Linux Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:27:48 -0500 From: Sun Microsystems [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: In Action: The First True Desktop Alternative to Windows To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: Sun Microsystems [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Rcpt-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SNIP Sun Net Talk on Demand Secure and Affordable: Sun Java[TM] Desktop System in Action Dear David Stringer, Are security breaches and virus outbreaks affecting your business? Estimates of virus damages run as high as $13 billion for 2003 alone. Surprisingly, there is a way you can virtually eliminate these threats. Just get rid of your Windows desktops - it's a whole lot easier than you might think. Invest 30 minutes of your time to see for yourself how the Java Desktop System's combination of open source and open standards will lower costs, reduce complexity, increase productivity and virtually eliminate virus attacks. Sun Java[TM] Desktop System is a more affordable, secure desktop that is designed to thrive in a Windows-centric world. It consists of a fully integrated client environment based on open source components, including the StarOffice[TM] Office Productivity Suite, and is the only environment with fully integrated Java technology. Through a series of demonstrations you'll see why the Sun Java Desktop System is truly the first viable Windows alternative for the enterprise. View Now: http://see.sun.com/Apps/DCS/mcp?r=70042YHZ49Jzh0120003dOH042YHZ0mfrJIfrSo To refer a friend to this Sun Net Talk event, use the link below: http://see.sun.com/Apps/DCS/mcp?r=70042YHZ49Jzh0120003dOF042YHZ0mfrJIfrSo If you have any questions or feedback, please send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you, Sun Microsystems View Now: http://see.sun.com/Apps/DCS/mcp?r=70042YHZ49Jzh0120003dOJ042YHZ0mfrJIfrSo About Net Talk on Demand Informative. On line. On target. Every Sun Net Talk event is unique, but they share certain characteristics. Knowledgeable speakers. Compelling content. Entertaining discussions. The end result is better understanding of how your technology investment decisions can drive innovation, accelerate cost efficiencies, and capture ROI. The on demand format ensures that you are able to listen in anytime, anywhere, at your convenience. © 2004 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Sun, Sun Microsystems, the Sun logo, StarOffice and Java are trademarks or registered trademarks of Sun Microsystems, Inc. in the United States and other countries. To update your Sun subscription preferences or unsubscribe to Sun news services, click on this link: http://see.sun.com/Apps/DCS/mcp?r=70042YHZ49Jzh0120003dOG042YHZ0mfrJIfrSo. - annmn:[742YHZ042YHZ49Jzh012042YHZ0mfrJIfrSo] STRINGER SON per: David J H Stringer STRINGER SON, - For all your legal work; P O Box 1386 CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Phone 64 - 3 - 366 1152 FAX 64 - 3 - 366 1151
