Re: Somewhat OT - OS-less Boxen... maybe less OT?
Hi I have just downloaded the Fedora 8 games live dvd. I am out of action the next two days. Will burn in the weekend and send through. Should I burn the iso as a file on the DVD rather than generate a the Live DVD itself. Only issue I see is Games fedora is a DVD but the boxes described have CD Roms. Regards Graeme Kiyoto-Ward Christopher Sawtell wrote: On 11/20/07, Wesley Parish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, we certainly could use a games-centric version of Fedora 8 at the St Albans NN - advertise it right, and word would definitely get around ... ! ;) Notice that many of the the files in the PC-BSD sub directory are games. vis:- linuxisos/PC-BSD: total 2786320 -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 1946150 Oct 9 19:32 7-Zip4.42-PV1.0.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 20080582 Oct 10 08:19 9395.0.NeverBall1.4.0-PV1.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 210069162 Oct 12 11:28 AlienArena20076.03-PV1.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 11888321 Oct 13 00:15 Audacity1.2.4-PV3.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 13409156 Oct 13 13:03 Blender2.42-PV1.0.pbi* -rwxr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 1050 Jul 11 2006 bootloaders.txt* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 302249988 Oct 14 01:51 EnemyTerritory2.60b-PV1.1.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 14466392 Oct 14 14:38 Gimp2.4.0rc1-PV3.pbi* -rwxr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 1924 Jul 11 2006 install.txt* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 23934719 Oct 15 03:25 Java-JRE1.5.0.07.01-PV1.1.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 18812061 Oct 15 16:13 Linux-Firefox2.0.0.3-PV1.0.pbi* -rwxr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 1078 Jul 11 2006 partitioning.txt* -rwxr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 726460416 Sep 26 01:21 PCBSD-x86-1.4-CD2.iso* -rwxr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 726499328 Sep 25 21:22 PCBSD-x86-1.4.iso* -rw-r--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 108 Oct 16 01:19 PCBSD-x86-1.4.iso.md5 -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 55921469 Oct 10 21:10 Quake31.32bfreebsd-i386-PV1.0.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 7807892 Oct 11 09:57 Scribus1.2.4.1-PV0.9.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 22149555 Oct 11 22:44 Stellarium0.7.1-PV1.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 39605655 Oct 13 00:18 Thunderbird2.0.0.5-PV3.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 474381155 Oct 16 05:02 TrueCombatElite0.49-PV1.0.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 151024956 Oct 16 17:49 VDrift20061006-PV1.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 15118033 Oct 17 06:36 Wine0.9.42-PV4.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 14417379 Oct 17 19:23 Xine0.99.4-PV1.1.pbi*
Re: Somewhat OT - OS-less Boxen... maybe less OT?
Should I burn the iso as a file on the DVD rather than generate a the Live DVD itself? It doesn't really matter. The advantage of the former is that the size of the file is always correct so md5sums give a true result as to the integrety of the data on the disk, but it has the disadvantage that the disk you made cannot be sold or given away as a liveCD/DVD. OTOH checking a LiveCD/DVD is just a one-liner. So it really doesn't matter, but what would be really appreciated is if you could check the integrety of the file, because I really don't want our archive to get a reputatiuon that the files are faulty. Also please note that the Sabayon DVD is about half games. -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell
Re: Somewhat OT - OS-less Boxen... maybe less OT?
Hi I have about 8gig left on my plan with about 3 days to go. Send the URl for the distribution and I'll download it and burn in to CD for the resource centre. Regards Graeme Kiyoto-Ward Steve Holdoway wrote: Maybe there's an opportunity here to extend the services offered by the St. Albans gang??? I know there's a games-centric version of Fedora 8 just come out ( sorry, couldn't get away with downloading *that* one at work (: ), and with Christmas around the corner. Christopher/Wesley/Edwin + any others who I've unintentionally left out... wocher rekkon?? Steve. On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:55:22 +1300 (NZDT) Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Computer Broker will sometimes discount their ex lease boxes if you don't want the OS, and many of them come in OS and OSless options straight off the floor. Even the ones without an OS seem to have a license sticker, which presumably means you can install the licensed OS, although i note the opinion of someone on NZLUG who had read the licence who said that after the second owner, the license was no longer transferable (ie the third owner had to buy another licence). Anyway there is more than one MS license and I guess you need to read the actual one that pertains to the actual machine. In buying ex-lease gear I look at the hardware price in the knowledge that I don't give a rats thingamy what version of windows i can run on it. If the vendor will take a few dollars less without the OS on board, thats cool, but I look first and foremost at whether the hardware is worth the price. One time the broker did discount me a box with no OS. The guy was going to reformat the hard drive to remove whatever abomination had been installed on it, and I said I'm in a bit of a hurry, theres no way I am going to run that piece of crap, I promise I'll take it off as soon as I get home He grinned and handed me the box (and of course I kept my word, its now running mythtv). Nick On Tue, November 20, 2007 3:30 pm, Edwin F wrote: There was a discussion on the NZLUG recently about the availability of OS-less ex-lease boxen - apparently, most of them suffer from the MS tax due to their old licenses being no longer transferrable, or something to that effect. I thought I would throw it out there that I am in the process of starting a small ex-lease thing, and I would gladly supply cheap, OS-less boxen if the demand is there, and perhaps somebody would like to contact existing ex-lease sellers around Christchurch about supplying OS-less boxen for a lower price and compile a Linux-friendly supplier list on the CLUG wiki? Hope nobody minds, but... == blatant plug time == I have a bunch of these boxen, currently: Intel Celeron 2.0GHz 512MB DDR RAM 40GB HDD Broadcom GigE CD-ROM Drive Floppy Drive (remember those? -- neither do I) They came with 17 CRTs, too, so those can be had providing it is being picked up or the extra shipping is paid (for... uh... across town) These I can supply for ~$200 each, give or take. == blatant plug time ends == Thoughts? Cheers, Edwin. -- Nick Rout
Re: Somewhat OT - OS-less Boxen... maybe less OT?
http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-8-Live-games-i686.torrent any use?? Steve On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 21:30:25 +1300 Graeme Kiyoto-Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I have about 8gig left on my plan with about 3 days to go. Send the URl for the distribution and I'll download it and burn in to CD for the resource centre. Regards Graeme Kiyoto-Ward Steve Holdoway wrote: Maybe there's an opportunity here to extend the services offered by the St. Albans gang??? I know there's a games-centric version of Fedora 8 just come out ( sorry, couldn't get away with downloading *that* one at work (: ), and with Christmas around the corner. Christopher/Wesley/Edwin + any others who I've unintentionally left out... wocher rekkon?? Steve. On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:55:22 +1300 (NZDT) Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Computer Broker will sometimes discount their ex lease boxes if you don't want the OS, and many of them come in OS and OSless options straight off the floor. Even the ones without an OS seem to have a license sticker, which presumably means you can install the licensed OS, although i note the opinion of someone on NZLUG who had read the licence who said that after the second owner, the license was no longer transferable (ie the third owner had to buy another licence). Anyway there is more than one MS license and I guess you need to read the actual one that pertains to the actual machine. In buying ex-lease gear I look at the hardware price in the knowledge that I don't give a rats thingamy what version of windows i can run on it. If the vendor will take a few dollars less without the OS on board, thats cool, but I look first and foremost at whether the hardware is worth the price. One time the broker did discount me a box with no OS. The guy was going to reformat the hard drive to remove whatever abomination had been installed on it, and I said I'm in a bit of a hurry, theres no way I am going to run that piece of crap, I promise I'll take it off as soon as I get home He grinned and handed me the box (and of course I kept my word, its now running mythtv). Nick On Tue, November 20, 2007 3:30 pm, Edwin F wrote: There was a discussion on the NZLUG recently about the availability of OS-less ex-lease boxen - apparently, most of them suffer from the MS tax due to their old licenses being no longer transferrable, or something to that effect. I thought I would throw it out there that I am in the process of starting a small ex-lease thing, and I would gladly supply cheap, OS-less boxen if the demand is there, and perhaps somebody would like to contact existing ex-lease sellers around Christchurch about supplying OS-less boxen for a lower price and compile a Linux-friendly supplier list on the CLUG wiki? Hope nobody minds, but... == blatant plug time == I have a bunch of these boxen, currently: Intel Celeron 2.0GHz 512MB DDR RAM 40GB HDD Broadcom GigE CD-ROM Drive Floppy Drive (remember those? -- neither do I) They came with 17 CRTs, too, so those can be had providing it is being picked up or the extra shipping is paid (for... uh... across town) These I can supply for ~$200 each, give or take. == blatant plug time ends == Thoughts? Cheers, Edwin. -- Nick Rout -- Steve Holdoway [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Somewhat OT - OS-less Boxen... maybe less OT?
Well, we certainly could use a games-centric version of Fedora 8 at the St Albans NN - advertise it right, and word would definitely get around ... ! ;) Wesley Parish On Tuesday 20 November 2007 16:24, Steve Holdoway wrote: Maybe there's an opportunity here to extend the services offered by the St. Albans gang??? I know there's a games-centric version of Fedora 8 just come out ( sorry, couldn't get away with downloading *that* one at work (: ), and with Christmas around the corner. Christopher/Wesley/Edwin + any others who I've unintentionally left out... wocher rekkon?? Steve. On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:55:22 +1300 (NZDT) Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Computer Broker will sometimes discount their ex lease boxes if you don't want the OS, and many of them come in OS and OSless options straight off the floor. Even the ones without an OS seem to have a license sticker, which presumably means you can install the licensed OS, although i note the opinion of someone on NZLUG who had read the licence who said that after the second owner, the license was no longer transferable (ie the third owner had to buy another licence). Anyway there is more than one MS license and I guess you need to read the actual one that pertains to the actual machine. In buying ex-lease gear I look at the hardware price in the knowledge that I don't give a rats thingamy what version of windows i can run on it. If the vendor will take a few dollars less without the OS on board, thats cool, but I look first and foremost at whether the hardware is worth the price. One time the broker did discount me a box with no OS. The guy was going to reformat the hard drive to remove whatever abomination had been installed on it, and I said I'm in a bit of a hurry, theres no way I am going to run that piece of crap, I promise I'll take it off as soon as I get home He grinned and handed me the box (and of course I kept my word, its now running mythtv). Nick On Tue, November 20, 2007 3:30 pm, Edwin F wrote: There was a discussion on the NZLUG recently about the availability of OS-less ex-lease boxen - apparently, most of them suffer from the MS tax due to their old licenses being no longer transferrable, or something to that effect. I thought I would throw it out there that I am in the process of starting a small ex-lease thing, and I would gladly supply cheap, OS-less boxen if the demand is there, and perhaps somebody would like to contact existing ex-lease sellers around Christchurch about supplying OS-less boxen for a lower price and compile a Linux-friendly supplier list on the CLUG wiki? Hope nobody minds, but... == blatant plug time == I have a bunch of these boxen, currently: Intel Celeron 2.0GHz 512MB DDR RAM 40GB HDD Broadcom GigE CD-ROM Drive Floppy Drive (remember those? -- neither do I) They came with 17 CRTs, too, so those can be had providing it is being picked up or the extra shipping is paid (for... uh... across town) These I can supply for ~$200 each, give or take. == blatant plug time ends == Thoughts? Cheers, Edwin. -- Nick Rout -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish - Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla warfare means up to their monkey tricks. Extracts from Schoolboy Howlers - the collective wisdom of the foolish. - Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
Re: Somewhat OT - OS-less Boxen... maybe less OT?
What kinda thing do you have in mind? Edwin On Nov 20, 2007 4:24 PM, Steve Holdoway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe there's an opportunity here to extend the services offered by the St. Albans gang??? I know there's a games-centric version of Fedora 8 just come out ( sorry, couldn't get away with downloading *that* one at work (: ), and with Christmas around the corner. Christopher/Wesley/Edwin + any others who I've unintentionally left out... wocher rekkon?? Steve. On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:55:22 +1300 (NZDT) Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Computer Broker will sometimes discount their ex lease boxes if you don't want the OS, and many of them come in OS and OSless options straight off the floor. Even the ones without an OS seem to have a license sticker, which presumably means you can install the licensed OS, although i note the opinion of someone on NZLUG who had read the licence who said that after the second owner, the license was no longer transferable (ie the third owner had to buy another licence). Anyway there is more than one MS license and I guess you need to read the actual one that pertains to the actual machine. In buying ex-lease gear I look at the hardware price in the knowledge that I don't give a rats thingamy what version of windows i can run on it. If the vendor will take a few dollars less without the OS on board, thats cool, but I look first and foremost at whether the hardware is worth the price. One time the broker did discount me a box with no OS. The guy was going to reformat the hard drive to remove whatever abomination had been installed on it, and I said I'm in a bit of a hurry, theres no way I am going to run that piece of crap, I promise I'll take it off as soon as I get home He grinned and handed me the box (and of course I kept my word, its now running mythtv). Nick On Tue, November 20, 2007 3:30 pm, Edwin F wrote: There was a discussion on the NZLUG recently about the availability of OS-less ex-lease boxen - apparently, most of them suffer from the MS tax due to their old licenses being no longer transferrable, or something to that effect. I thought I would throw it out there that I am in the process of starting a small ex-lease thing, and I would gladly supply cheap, OS-less boxen if the demand is there, and perhaps somebody would like to contact existing ex-lease sellers around Christchurch about supplying OS-less boxen for a lower price and compile a Linux-friendly supplier list on the CLUG wiki? Hope nobody minds, but... == blatant plug time == I have a bunch of these boxen, currently: Intel Celeron 2.0GHz 512MB DDR RAM 40GB HDD Broadcom GigE CD-ROM Drive Floppy Drive (remember those? -- neither do I) They came with 17 CRTs, too, so those can be had providing it is being picked up or the extra shipping is paid (for... uh... across town) These I can supply for ~$200 each, give or take. == blatant plug time ends == Thoughts? Cheers, Edwin. -- Nick Rout -- Steve Holdoway [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Somewhat OT - OS-less Boxen... maybe less OT?
Well, your empty machines + their library of available distros = linux workstations ready for christmas?? On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:01:10 +1300 Edwin Flores [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What kinda thing do you have in mind? Edwin On Nov 20, 2007 4:24 PM, Steve Holdoway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe there's an opportunity here to extend the services offered by the St. Albans gang??? I know there's a games-centric version of Fedora 8 just come out ( sorry, couldn't get away with downloading *that* one at work (: ), and with Christmas around the corner. Christopher/Wesley/Edwin + any others who I've unintentionally left out... wocher rekkon?? Steve. On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:55:22 +1300 (NZDT) Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Computer Broker will sometimes discount their ex lease boxes if you don't want the OS, and many of them come in OS and OSless options straight off the floor. Even the ones without an OS seem to have a license sticker, which presumably means you can install the licensed OS, although i note the opinion of someone on NZLUG who had read the licence who said that after the second owner, the license was no longer transferable (ie the third owner had to buy another licence). Anyway there is more than one MS license and I guess you need to read the actual one that pertains to the actual machine. In buying ex-lease gear I look at the hardware price in the knowledge that I don't give a rats thingamy what version of windows i can run on it. If the vendor will take a few dollars less without the OS on board, thats cool, but I look first and foremost at whether the hardware is worth the price. One time the broker did discount me a box with no OS. The guy was going to reformat the hard drive to remove whatever abomination had been installed on it, and I said I'm in a bit of a hurry, theres no way I am going to run that piece of crap, I promise I'll take it off as soon as I get home He grinned and handed me the box (and of course I kept my word, its now running mythtv). Nick On Tue, November 20, 2007 3:30 pm, Edwin F wrote: There was a discussion on the NZLUG recently about the availability of OS-less ex-lease boxen - apparently, most of them suffer from the MS tax due to their old licenses being no longer transferrable, or something to that effect. I thought I would throw it out there that I am in the process of starting a small ex-lease thing, and I would gladly supply cheap, OS-less boxen if the demand is there, and perhaps somebody would like to contact existing ex-lease sellers around Christchurch about supplying OS-less boxen for a lower price and compile a Linux-friendly supplier list on the CLUG wiki? Hope nobody minds, but... == blatant plug time == I have a bunch of these boxen, currently: Intel Celeron 2.0GHz 512MB DDR RAM 40GB HDD Broadcom GigE CD-ROM Drive Floppy Drive (remember those? -- neither do I) They came with 17 CRTs, too, so those can be had providing it is being picked up or the extra shipping is paid (for... uh... across town) These I can supply for ~$200 each, give or take. == blatant plug time ends == Thoughts? Cheers, Edwin. -- Nick Rout -- Steve Holdoway [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpzfUt7wpTZO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Somewhat OT - OS-less Boxen... maybe less OT?
On 11/20/07, Wesley Parish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, we certainly could use a games-centric version of Fedora 8 at the St Albans NN - advertise it right, and word would definitely get around ... ! ;) Notice that many of the the files in the PC-BSD sub directory are games. vis:- linuxisos/PC-BSD: total 2786320 -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 1946150 Oct 9 19:32 7-Zip4.42-PV1.0.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 20080582 Oct 10 08:19 9395.0.NeverBall1.4.0-PV1.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 210069162 Oct 12 11:28 AlienArena20076.03-PV1.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 11888321 Oct 13 00:15 Audacity1.2.4-PV3.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 13409156 Oct 13 13:03 Blender2.42-PV1.0.pbi* -rwxr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 1050 Jul 11 2006 bootloaders.txt* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 302249988 Oct 14 01:51 EnemyTerritory2.60b-PV1.1.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 14466392 Oct 14 14:38 Gimp2.4.0rc1-PV3.pbi* -rwxr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 1924 Jul 11 2006 install.txt* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 23934719 Oct 15 03:25 Java-JRE1.5.0.07.01-PV1.1.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 18812061 Oct 15 16:13 Linux-Firefox2.0.0.3-PV1.0.pbi* -rwxr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 1078 Jul 11 2006 partitioning.txt* -rwxr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 726460416 Sep 26 01:21 PCBSD-x86-1.4-CD2.iso* -rwxr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 726499328 Sep 25 21:22 PCBSD-x86-1.4.iso* -rw-r--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 108 Oct 16 01:19 PCBSD-x86-1.4.iso.md5 -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 55921469 Oct 10 21:10 Quake31.32bfreebsd-i386-PV1.0.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 7807892 Oct 11 09:57 Scribus1.2.4.1-PV0.9.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 22149555 Oct 11 22:44 Stellarium0.7.1-PV1.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 39605655 Oct 13 00:18 Thunderbird2.0.0.5-PV3.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 474381155 Oct 16 05:02 TrueCombatElite0.49-PV1.0.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 151024956 Oct 16 17:49 VDrift20061006-PV1.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 15118033 Oct 17 06:36 Wine0.9.42-PV4.pbi* -r-xr--r-- 1 nobody lnxdisk 14417379 Oct 17 19:23 Xine0.99.4-PV1.1.pbi* -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell
Re: Somewhat OT - OS-less Boxen... maybe less OT?
Maybe there's an opportunity here to extend the services offered by the St. Albans gang??? I know there's a games-centric version of Fedora 8 just come out ( sorry, couldn't get away with downloading *that* one at work (: ), and with Christmas around the corner. Christopher/Wesley/Edwin + any others who I've unintentionally left out... wocher rekkon?? Steve. On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:55:22 +1300 (NZDT) Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Computer Broker will sometimes discount their ex lease boxes if you don't want the OS, and many of them come in OS and OSless options straight off the floor. Even the ones without an OS seem to have a license sticker, which presumably means you can install the licensed OS, although i note the opinion of someone on NZLUG who had read the licence who said that after the second owner, the license was no longer transferable (ie the third owner had to buy another licence). Anyway there is more than one MS license and I guess you need to read the actual one that pertains to the actual machine. In buying ex-lease gear I look at the hardware price in the knowledge that I don't give a rats thingamy what version of windows i can run on it. If the vendor will take a few dollars less without the OS on board, thats cool, but I look first and foremost at whether the hardware is worth the price. One time the broker did discount me a box with no OS. The guy was going to reformat the hard drive to remove whatever abomination had been installed on it, and I said I'm in a bit of a hurry, theres no way I am going to run that piece of crap, I promise I'll take it off as soon as I get home He grinned and handed me the box (and of course I kept my word, its now running mythtv). Nick On Tue, November 20, 2007 3:30 pm, Edwin F wrote: There was a discussion on the NZLUG recently about the availability of OS-less ex-lease boxen - apparently, most of them suffer from the MS tax due to their old licenses being no longer transferrable, or something to that effect. I thought I would throw it out there that I am in the process of starting a small ex-lease thing, and I would gladly supply cheap, OS-less boxen if the demand is there, and perhaps somebody would like to contact existing ex-lease sellers around Christchurch about supplying OS-less boxen for a lower price and compile a Linux-friendly supplier list on the CLUG wiki? Hope nobody minds, but... == blatant plug time == I have a bunch of these boxen, currently: Intel Celeron 2.0GHz 512MB DDR RAM 40GB HDD Broadcom GigE CD-ROM Drive Floppy Drive (remember those? -- neither do I) They came with 17 CRTs, too, so those can be had providing it is being picked up or the extra shipping is paid (for... uh... across town) These I can supply for ~$200 each, give or take. == blatant plug time ends == Thoughts? Cheers, Edwin. -- Nick Rout -- Steve Holdoway [EMAIL PROTECTED]
