Re: [ILUG-BOM] Opensource for a Small Manufacturing unit
2007/1/17, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: not necessary - call it what you feel like calling it. Who made those two organisations the sole arbiters of what is what? Agreed, but those are the two organisations who defined these two terms Open Source and Free Software so if they accept that your license is according to the FOSS defintion others believe you and it removes the headache of other developers in using your code. If FSF says it is a GPL compatible Free Software license then anyone can mix and match your code and other GPLed code out there. If you don't do it then everyone who are going to make use of your code will have to spent time on deciding compatibility and worry about legality. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Opensource for a Small Manufacturing unit
2007/1/17, Vihan Pandey [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Very true, but i guess FSF is probably(correct me if i'm wrong) the only organisation which keeps a track of GPL violations and does something about it. No, Harald Welte and http://gpl-violations.org/ also keeps track of gplviolations Anyone is free to adopt any free software license they want, there's really no ``signing up required with anyone. I was talking about the case when anyone writes their_own_license Only if one has chosen one of the FSF licenses and are violating it or violating GPL in general then FSF can take action against the entity concerned. Not correct. FSF can act only agaist violations of the softwares which it owns full copyright (that's why most of the official GNU software projects mandates copyright assignment to FSF - only then FSF can enforce GPL compliance). Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Opensource for a Small Manufacturing unit
2007/1/17, Vihan Pandey [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sounds logical, but i haven't seen any individual(again to the best of my knowledge) doing a solo defense of his GPL'd code. As mentioned earlier - Harald Welte defend GPL and has won cases in court upholding GPL's validity in court. http://gpl-violations.org/news/20060922-dlink-judgement_frankfurt.html Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Opensource for a Small Manufacturing unit
2007/1/14, Sachin G Nambiar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I create X. I want to use a retail business model(whether it works or does not work is out of the question) but as a proprietor i have a right to choose my business model! [point 1] You are thinking in terms of the proprietory business model. I agree with you that you have the righ to chose your business model. But why do you think we should accept your model? Because many people already does that? Sorry we in the Free Software world does not think so. See what Eben Moglen thinks abot it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Moglen Moglen believes the idea of proprietary software is as ludicrous as having proprietary mathematics or proprietary geometry. This would convert the subjects from something you can learn into something you must buy, he has argued. He points out that software is among the things which can be copied infinitely over and over again, without any further costs. Software id knowledge and it should be avilable to every one. If you don't agree to this, well we don't agree with you as well :-) If a person buys mp3 of a shakira song (who i think has a great voice btw) he has every right to listen to it, add his own effects for his own pleasure (remix it) but he should not broadcast it. Because by doing so, he is infringing on the record labels copyright. Thats what copyrights patents are for! To prevent misuse and to protect the originator/creator.[point 2] In the US constitution: The Constitution gives permission for a copyright system with this paragraph (Article I, Section 8): [Congress shall have the power] to promote the progress of science and the useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/misinterpreting-copyright.html for more info on the motivations for copyright. The aim of the copyright law is not to protect originator but to promote progress of science and useful arts. Get your basics right. So don't think authors have any natural right to their work. It is granted by the goverment so as to benefit the public. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Opensource for a Small Manufacturing unit
2007/1/14, Sachin G Nambiar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: When i buy a software i have a right to use it in any way i wish. That is Freedom 0. If you buy a non-free software you don't have these rights.period. But when i distribute it as if it were my own(even with modifications), iam basically building upon the millions(possibly) spent by the creator in developing, market research for usability and marketing. You are thinking from a proprietory business model. Free Software is created because we want to live in Freedom. Open Source Software is to develop powerful and reliable software. There isn't a creator but every one collaborate here. The creator has every right to stop me from distributing the software because as a creator he/she has every right to control who gets the software and who does not! This is not a natural right but one he got from the Bern Convention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works Software is intangible like mp3 and the effect of free distribution will make my business model non-profitable! Chose another business model that is profitable. Who said you should chose a non-profitable business model? The creator likes the society as a whole to be benefited thats why he made the software, but not at his expense! No, if he likes to see th whole socity benefited he would have released it as Free Software. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Opensource for a Small Manufacturing unit
2007/1/14, Sachin G Nambiar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: If FOSS philosphy says explicitly that every software should be freely distributable, then it is infringing upon the fundamental right of the creator. Nobody compels you to release it as Free Software, but don't insist you want to call it Free Software and still being able to restrict the user of the fundamantal Freedoms. Is anyone infringing upon Microsoft's moral rights because they release non-free software. We said we will show you how to make ethical software and demonstrated practically how to develop ethical software and it now powers a billion dolla industry. Just see how much money IBM, HP, and others make from Free Software HP claims it has started to make higher margins from open source than proprietary software in some instances, due to the support costs associated with migration. http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,100121,39284344,00.htm If the creator wishes it to be distributed then it's fine. But he should have his say. He has, that's how the whole FOSS software works it is not Richard Stallman or Linus Torvals that decides the license for a FOSS Software, it is individual developers who decide and it is their code and they have chosen to allow Free distribution. That being said, there are seperate licenses.. (GPL) is just one of them. I can choose to modify a particular software and sell it under a different license. No you cannot unless you right it yourself. or it is under BSD. If you are not ready to give your software to other how hippocrite of you to expect to be allowed to distribute a GPL software in any license you like! Now iam all for freedom software, As long as can leech code from others ... but just because FOSS philosophy says that freedom software should be distributable free of charge does not mean that it's right. You don't have to accept it but don't say it is not right because you don't like it. Call your software something else. If you want to call your software FOSS then you have to follow the FOSS philosophy or you are free to call it something else. It's a fundamental moral infringement upon the creators right. You don't understand a bit about anything. You being able to use a distributable software is your privilege not your right! It is the right of the users to chose only softwares that allow them to redustribute. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Opensource for a Small Manufacturing unit
2007/1/14, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 14-Jan-07, at 1:45 AM, Sachin G Nambiar wrote: Without any Regards to you, and with Regards to the List, - vihan lets not take things out fo context and be snide about it shall we? I wondered aloud, some people have kindly given me some answers. Let that be the end of it. your problem is that you belong to the OSS school and not the FOSS school - The first lesson in the OSS school is 1. Free Redistribution http://opensource.org/docs/definition.php And I don't know how you thought he is in the OSS school Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Opensource for a Small Manufacturing unit
2007/1/14, Sachin G Nambiar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: no - when you 'buy' doze, you have practically no rights whatsover - check the EULA who said anything about doze? i was talking about my rights. Rights to what software ypu were talking about? I can choose to modify a particular software and sell it under a different license. jail thanks. :-) We saved you from going to jail. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] If you are Bill Gates ...
2007/1/12, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: collaboration is what i am talking about - that you guys collaborate with us the build up the bom wiki - you are talking splittism - that we divert some effort to your wiki. Dont forget that this wiki grows out of *this* mailing list and *this* community. Exactly. To grow your wiki please strengthen *your* mailing list and *your* community. My wiki is about all the commmunities be it bom, chennai, goa ... If you care to check I have been posting the wiki link to all the lists which I'm a part of. I don't see a yours and mine here. It is all about FOSS, that is why I'm active in Mumbai list even though I'm from Palakkad and based out of Bangalore. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Dummy Guide to Contributing
Hi, There was a question raised in foss.in list, how do I start contributing to FOSS? Karunakar started a wiki page here http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/DummyGuideToContributing Contribute to it and make it a comprehensive guide Cheers Praveen PS: Please don't start yours and mine debate here, a wiki is by default by its contributors and this wiki is under GFDL -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Dummy Guide to Contributing
2007/1/12, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: and how will this PS prevent a debate - I still am of the opinion that mumbai list should concentrate on Mumbai wiki That does not mean, mumbai list members should not contribute to any other wikis. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] If you are Bill Gates ...
2007/1/11, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: in that case advertise your wiki on the mailing list for the entire indian foss community. No doubt your wiki was there first - but now the lug wiki has got good mileage, but has a way to go. So please do not solicit contributions to a rival wiki on this list. There is no rivalry at all. fci wiki does the job similar to a DNS mainly, collect all foss communities infos (wikis, maling lists ...) in one place. If you care to check the Mumbai community page at fci http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Mumbai it points to the mumbai wiki. Also if some info is common to all or there is no communities exist at some place they can use fci pages. FOSS is about collaboration and not about competition. Hope it clarifies. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] If you are Bill Gates ...
2007/1/11, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: because diversity is strenght You said it. -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] If you are Bill Gates ...
2007/1/11, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Oh come on, we are all on the same side here :-) Excatly. precisely - so why duplicate efforts - what would he have lost by putting this on the mumbai wiki? I have not started that page (you can just check the history if you want to verify it). If I had copied that to mumbai wiki it would be a fork and then both will evolve on its on without syncing. I am sure there would be a much wider exposure and more contributions - especially as we are now in the wiki mode Exactly for this reason I put the link in this list, linuxers is very active list and I was sure to get more contributions. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] If you are Bill Gates ...
2007/1/11, Vihan Pandey [EMAIL PROTECTED]: In contrast, if you have a wiki which is essentially a public document open to CRUD(CReate Update Delete) and discussion, it evolves over a period of time. If you create two same topic Wiki's in two different places and they have will probably have different members editing them(as a single person will find it tedious to post the same thing in two places on regular basis) also what we write once is generally a spur of the moment thing - pretty instinctive. Will we have same feelings and passion doing it yet for the same document in another place? Probably not. If we forced ourselves to try as hard as possible to give the same content in the 2nd place as well it would be a clear waste of time and energy. A wiki has articles and each wiki can link to other wik's articles. So even for the same topic there can have different articles. Never the less it would be an interesting behavioral study(just as a study) to have such a scenario, wherein you would have two Wiki's with would evolve (probabalistically) in a different(or similar) manners based on the environment(user tempraments, events, incidents etc) around them. The Wiki effectively becomes a barometer of the opinions and belief's of that system(set of people). This is a good point. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Opensource for a Small Manufacturing unit
2007/1/11, Sachin G Nambiar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I dont care if college kids use it if they are not my customer, but why screw up my business model becasue these college kids might just hand it over to soene with enough money and resources to screw me up. FOSS business is Free and Open Source Software + FOSS business model and you cannot have FOSS + proprietory business model and expect it to succeed. That is where protective licenses (like GNU GPL) comes into your rescue. If people with enought money and resources do add a kick ass feature you also get it for free (it is not possible if you chose a non-protective license like BSD or X11 though) not ideals, just bad for business! If you want to do FOSS business dumb your proprietory business model (I will lose market if I give out my code) and embrace a FOSS business model. See Red Hat, Novell, Troll Tech, MySQL, JBoss, db4objects ... for example. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Opensource for a Small Manufacturing unit
2007/1/11, Sachin G Nambiar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: people with enought money and resources do add a kick ass feature you also now would that be fair? I think using, changing is ok because it's my right! Since iam concerned about my right am also concerned about the right of the maker. There are just too many parasites out there in the world. Does he not have a right? Can you be clear a bit, I am confused here. my in your sentence refer to you as the author or the receiver? Also who is he here? the parasite? See Red Hat, Novell, Troll Tech, MySQL, JBoss, db4objects ... for example. Hoping that your software would break down so you would get more business? You kidding here ? See this story of NASA switching to MySQL from Oracle (just one quick example for reliability) http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/2000/1204/pol-nasa-12-04-00.asp :) or maybe not so much bt just enough to get business. now what? Here poeple have a choice and there is competition so do you think Red Hat will be making their system break to get business? Customers will chose Novell or any other company which offer better solution. This time its idealism not business. :) Can you elaborate? I really wish i could have the cake nd eat it too... :/ hmm Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] If you are Bill Gates ...
2007/1/11, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: but gentoo devels dont go to slackware mailing lists and ask for contributions http://wiki.debian.org/Java/DevJam/2007/Fosdem Collaboration between debian and fedora for packaging java just one example where collaboration happens across distros (see the wiki is on debian and the vent will be co-ordinated by Fedora developer and you can see gentoo devlopers signing up there). http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/msg03765.html Also you might have seen Mark Shuttleworth asking opensuse developers to join ubuntu (though it stirred a lot of controversy and considered bad just wanted to point out that here) Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] If you are Bill Gates ...
Hi, We have started collection of tips to promote Free Knowledge and Free Software for a Free Society here. http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/IfYouAre Please pass on this to your friends which ever field of life they are in also contribute to make it better. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] If you are Bill Gates ...
2007/1/11, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: why not put it in the mumbai wiki - what benefit is there in having a private wiki? It is not a private wiki (someone has to start it and it happened to be me). Just see the contributors (or recent changes) and you will se it has been active for some time now and there are many contributors. in fact you have some good content there, and i would suggest you shift it all to the mumbai wiki. This wiki was there before the mumbai wiki and it is not just for the the mumbai lug, but for the entire indian foss community. Cheers Praveen Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Windows tax refund
2007/1/8, PV Sundarram [EMAIL PROTECTED]: hey, just chk this out this guy frm uk has got a refund frm acer. http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=139627 This was an excellent discussion. It is interesting to learn how many laws they throw to the dust bin and go uncaught. Great to see someone fighting, and winning. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] OLPC
2007/1/2, Mukund Deshmukh [EMAIL PROTECTED]: OLPC (One Laptop Per Child) is using linux. A different but interesting article by one of the GNU Classpath Developer Roma Kennke http://kennke.org/blog/2006/12/21/one-laptop-per-child/ He thinks what our children really need are: * Parents. * Time to learn. * Childhood. and they don't need: * Floods of information and media. * Plastic toys * And certainly, kids don't need a computer I really liked this article and agree with some of his views. Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Allison resigns from Novell - first nail in the coffin
2006/12/22, jtd [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Jeremy Allison developer of samba has resigned in protest over the Microvell deal. http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=170 Very interesting thought that can't be argued against. Do you think that if we'd have found what we legally considered a clever way around the Microsoft EULA so we didn't have to pay for Microsoft licenses and had decided to ship, oh let's say, Exchange Server under this legal hack that Microsoft would be silent about it - or we should act aggr[i]eved when they change the EULA to stop us doing this? -JA There an interesting discussion going on at groklaw with the full letter he wrote to Novell http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061221081000710 And he is joining google. Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: Linux expert with a monitoring background required.
2006/12/21, Siddhesh Poyarekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 12/21/06, Vihan Pandey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: O.K, so in that case the only option is the lesser evil. Go to the windoze filled cyber cafe and download OOo for win32 and use ODT. Is it REALLY that hard? You're assuming that one will have unlimited rights installing any programs on a cyber cafe computer. While this may be true for Win98 computers, most cyber cafes I've frequented of late lock everything except the my documents folder. Also, consider the amount of time I'll have to waste downloading a program -- zealotry at its best I'd say. go to http://docs.google.com to create an odf document. It would require a modern browser just like gmail requires and most of the cafe's have Firefox or a recent IE version which is enough to create a odf file. Or is that a tough thing? May be you didn't know about it before then it is the right time to talk about it and start using exclusively Free Format content. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] The battle for wireless network drivers
The battle for wireless network driversWritten by Jem Matzan Dec 20, 2006 at 08:52 PM BSD and Linux programmers have had a lot of success in creating drivers for new computer hardware in a timely manner, but much of their effort has been without the support of major hardware manufacturers. Intel, Marvell, Texas Instruments and Broadcom, though separate and competing entities, seem by one consent to prevent non-Microsoft operating systems from working properly with some of their most widely-used network chips. Read the full story http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/293 It is a bit long but really worth it. The author has interviewed many of the wireless chip manufactures and gives an insight into the issues surrounding wireless card drivers for Free and Open Source Operating Systems. He suggests the main issue is the lack of communication between the developers and the manufacturers. Take this into account when you buy a new wireless network card and support the companies which provides specifications and documentation to the Free and Open Source Operating Systems developers. Cheers Praveen PS: Sorry for cross-posting -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] as low as it gets: P2-350, 64 MB, 4 GB
2006/12/18, Abhishek Daga [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Finally managed to get my hands on some P2 350s with 64 MB and 4 GB. CDROM thrown in too. (atleast in one of them). I'm currently running Debain GNU/Linux etch RC1 (with linux kernel 2.6.17) on my P2 266MHz, 256 MB RAM, 2 GB HDD, CDROM+Floppy system. it has 98 for now, but planning to use a stripped down version of ubuntu. The minimum requirement for Debian GNU/Linux etch is 32MB RAM (It is 24 if you go for sarge) and 256MB Hard Disk space. I'm running WindowMaker now and it works awesome (I used to run GNOME but had toremove it as I needed Open Office and GNU/Hurd in the 2 GB). I have 1.1 GB for GNU/Linux if there was ever such a thing. My basic (and probably only requirements are) 1) Wine I have tried it in my office desktop 2) The two browsers. FF and IE. Again used to use IE for some intranet resources that only works with IE. 3) a teeny .exe application that will be run over wine just like IE. If it is small one it should not cause any problems. Am pretty sure the above config should meet those needs, but is there any further stripping i need to do while installing the standard ubuntu 6.06 dapper drake to make it more lightweight? I would suggest Debian/Gentoo/slackware/DSL rather than re-inventing the wheel as suggested by others. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] What is stoping Indians from contributing to FOSS ?
2006/12/12, krishnakant Mane [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 12/12/06, Dinesh Joshi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 12 December 2006 12:25, jtd wrote: Then a friend comes along and shows the aweful loading times that OO.o has, the occasional page alignment mismatch in .doc files and also installs a pirated copy of Adobe distiller which puts a nice shiny PDF converter icon in M$ Word. The person never gives OO.o a second thought... oh did I read aweful loading time? I never saw that happening in the recent versions. I think openoffice is pritty fast and stable right now. ubuntu 6.10 comes with one of the best versions. and I wont be surprised if debian 4 (can some one tell me when is it being released?) also ships the same or even a better version. I wont mind even if people use the windows kernel and desktop. I am not saying that switch to linux from day one after I show what crapware windows and its company gives or even for that matter most non-free software gives. but there is no harm in using open office, gimp, and other such tools, isn't it? once we realise the power of these tools, and once we know that they are not some strange time pass experiments done by students or hackers, I don't find any reason to use tools like office. really I am surprised to here that open office is still slow. I was doing a demo of the linux based screen reader in the lug last sunday, and on a 256 mb average machine the spreadsheet and the word processor came up in pritty much the same time as $office would take. and don't forget I was using a screen reader that consumes a lot of resources. so I will request all other people to kindly check the information they post and correct me if I am wrong. regards. Krishnakant. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] What is stoping Indians from contributing to FOSS ?
Hi, Sorry if you got another mail before this, caused by some wierd keyboard shortcuts. 2006/12/12, krishnakant Mane [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I think openoffice is pritty fast and stable right now. ubuntu 6.10 comes with one of the best versions. and I wont be surprised if debian 4 (can some one tell me when is it being released?) also ships the same or even a better version. I think ubuntu 6.10 comes with Open Office 2.0.4. Debian 4.0 etch (currently in frozen sate and expected to be released by end of this month - as the debian's policy is realeased when it is ready) will have the same version. Most of the release goals for Debian 4.0 including linux kernel 2.6.18, new graphical installer, SELinux support, LSB 3.1 compliance ... are in good shape to be released. Also other new changes includes better support for Desktops and laptops (soundcard detection configuration, battery power ...) and improved co-ordination between various desktop environments (KDE, GNOME and XFCE will follow common default theme) ... See the freeze announcement http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/12/msg4.html Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] What is stoping Indians from contributing to FOSS ?
2006/12/11, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: names) here http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Contributors would be nice if it is specified somewhere *who* is running this wiki If you mean who registered the wiki, I did it. Other than that there is no single person or group controlling/running it. It is meant to connect various user groups and communities and track indian foss contributions/events anything related to foss. The wiki contributors run it. It also used for coordinating some of the localisation efforts. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] What is stoping Indians from contributing to FOSS ?
2006/12/11, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 11-Dec-06, at 12:05 PM, പ്രവീണ്|Praveen wrote: put an 'about' page or a contact us page with at least two names on it - makes everyone more comfortable. Done the about page, http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/About I don't think contact us page makes any sense. It is intended to act similar to a DNS server where you get the address by name - here you get mailing list and other details if you know the name say Mumbai just go to http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Mumbai and know whom you can contact. See a list of communities http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Communities Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Protest against Novell-Microsoft deal
An Open Leter to Novell CEO Hovserpian from Bruce Perens (you can also add your comments there) To Mr. Hovsepian, The Open Source community would find little to criticize in your agreement with Microsoft, had it remained a strictly financial and technical agreement. As the agreement stands today, it betrays the authors of the software you re-market and their users worldwide for Novell's sole commercial benefit. The covenant of the GPL is that in the face of a software patent aggressor we must all hang together, lest we each hang separately. Novell accepted that covenant when you chose to include the Linux kernel, the GNU C library, and hundreds of additional works created at no charge to Novell by individuals in the Free Software community and licensed under the GPL. It is abundantly clear that Novell and Microsoft took the time to engineer a circuitous legal path of issuing covenants to each other's customers, rather than licenses to each other, in order to circumvent Novell's earlier agreement with the community of GPL software developers. Read full story http://techp.org/petition/show/1 Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] GNU System (aka GNU/Hurd) Hackers and Users IRC meetup
Hi, We have our first IRC meetup of hurd.in community. When: saturday (dec 9, 2006) from 5pm Where: at #hurd.in on freenode Agenda: Sustaining the hurd.in community, Mentoring student projects, K14 celebration + http://hurd.in/bin/view/Hurd/IRC09Dec2006 Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Microsoft-Novell Collaboration
2006/11/4, Mrugesh Karnik [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ah hello! I'm really surprised no has bothered throwing this piece of meat into the doghouse yet. Maybe everyone is dumbstruck? Well, anyway, for the unknowing: http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/default.mspx http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/ Comments people? More questions http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061107194320461 I just realized the full significance. Novell here is stepping outside the line of fire and agreeing with Microsoft that *end users* are the ones that you must go after in any patent infringement dispute. Shades of SCOsource. Thanks for nothing, Novell. More questions: When were Novell SUSE customers asked if they wished Novell to negotiate a agreement with Microsoft on their behalf? When were Novell SUSE customers asked about the terms of said agreement? What consideration does Microsoft get from Novell's customers? Does negotiating this agreement on Novell's customers' behalf indicate that Novell assumed Power of Attorney for their customers in this matter? Did Novell truly represent the best interest of their customers using Power of Attorney? Can Novell legally assume Power of Attorney for their customers without a written grant? Do Novell customers have the ability to opt-out of this agreement? Is this agreement binding on customers? Who gave Novell rights to decide on behalf of you just because you happened to buy a Novell product? Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] FSF announces release of gNewSense 1.0
2006/11/7, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: shouldnt this be called gNewSense GNU/Linux? It is gNewSense (http://www.gnewsense.org) is a free software GNU/Linux distribution created by two Irish free software advocates, Brian Brazil and Paul O'Malley, and is based on the Ubuntu and Debian distributions. http://www.fsf.org/news/gnewsense Regards Praveen PS: Did you mean I should have used gNewSense GNU/Linux in my mail? -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] FSF announces release of gNewSense 1.0
2006/11/3, Harshal Vaidya [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ive never been able to understand what people get by coming up with million different form of free distributions.What was wrong with Debian or Ubuntu that these people thought of making a new one. Just saw this review by Mark Pilgrim (Dive into Python author) about gNewSense and I thought it would be interesting. In his post he tries to explain why he thinks gNewSense is important and he calls it a reference implementation of software freedom. There's a new GNU/Linux distribution, gNewSense http://www.gnewsense.org/, so of course there had to be a Digg thread full of people complaining that the world doesn't need another GNU/Linux distributionhttp://www.digg.com/linux_unix/FSF_debuts_fully_free_Ubuntu_Debian_variant. I would argue the opposite: this is one distribution that the world absolutely *does* need. (It may need others too, that's not part of this argument.) . The gNewSense maintainers apparently feel that saying you're a little bit non-free is akin to saying you're a little bit pregnant. Close doesn't count, and even if people don't notice the difference today, they'll definitely notice it nine months from now. . This is why I say that gNewSense is the one distribution that the world actually needs: it's like a reference implementationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_implementation_%28computing%29for Free Software. http://diveintomark.org/archives/2006/11/06/gnewsense Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Microsoft-Novell Collaboration
2006/11/4, Harsh Busa [EMAIL PROTECTED]: i think its an excellent step taken by both ms and novell. finally its becoming a mature market. tech market has always been about co-operative competition. interoperability is key to fostering growth of all platforms. kudos to novell and ms Atleast Bruce Perens and Eben Moglen does not seem to agree with you. Novell-Microsoft: What They Aren't Telling You Today Novell and Microsoft announced a partnership in which Microsoft has made some unlikely-seeming promises regarding Linux. What aren't they telling you? First, you can be sure that Microsoft's not out to help a competitor. This announcement paves the way for Microsoft to implement significant control over commercial customer's use of Free Software. And it has significant negative implications for Open Source in general. http://technocrat.net/d/2006/11/2/9945 See what Eben Moglen has to say about the possibility of GPL violation http://news.com.com/2061-10795_3-6132156.html Microsoft is bragging in their press release that they found a way around the GPL by using a covenant, probably a covenant not to sue, we'll have to see the details. Whatever way they do it, they are at least circumventing the spirit of the license, and possibly the letter. Shame on Novell for helping them do that. And doesn't this remind you why we need a GPL3. I don't think that coupling the patent protection to a support contract would be any better - it's still about using the software, the GPL still covers that software. http://technocrat.net/d/2006/11/2/9986 Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: Microsoft-Novell Collaboration
2006/11/4, krishnakant Mane [EMAIL PROTECTED]: well, is it a slow poison for gnu/linux? how much will microsoft really follow? krishnakant. Couldn't resist sharing this :-) So, this girl settles down on the couch with a convicted rapist for a kiss and cuddle. Later, she's found in the gutter, beaten and bleeding, sobbing He seemed so nice, I thought he'd changed his ways... http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=displaysid=20061103073628401title=But%20I%20thought%20he%27d%20changed%2C%20she%20cried.type=articleorder=hideanonymous=0pid=0#c498509 Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] FSF announces release of gNewSense 1.0
2006/11/3, Harshal Vaidya [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ive never been able to understand what people get by coming up with million different form of free distributions.What was wrong with Debian or Ubuntu that these people thought of making a new one. Because each individual is unique and I wouldn't be surprised to see a distribution per computer user ! Each distribution tries to achive a different goal (however minute it may be). As long as they contribute changes back to upstream and not fork each application, does it matter? Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Forbes.com: Toppling Linux
2006/10/29, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: if freedom is important you should go for the freest licence of all - pure bsd and not the most restrictive - gpl The restrictions GPL require is to protect freedom of all users and not just the first layer (those who get the code directly from the main developers) who can then make it proprietary. -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Forbes.com: Toppling Linux
2006/10/28, Dinesh Shah [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 3. Users (mere Mortals - I belong this category :-)) - These are the people who want usable, quality software / content which is reasonably priced (preferably gratis ;-)). They are not very much bothered about freedom and source code as it mostly irrelevant for them. The FSF GODs and Devils and Demons (described below) are competing for their souls. :-) Freedom is important to me because I get the benefits of being able to change the software and distribute the improvements because there are many brilliant programmers out there in my community who improves the software from time to time and are happy to see the members of this community using their improvements. I get to use all new functionalities, less bugs and new contents like themes even though I cannot code a single line -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Forbes.com: Toppling Linux
2006/10/28, Dinesh Shah [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 1. GNU and FSF People and their fans - These are GODs themselves with halo and all. Their goal is to liberate the soul and give freedom to user (another actor in the game/play). The latest weapon in their arsenal is GPLv3. They think that the previous weapon they had (GPLv2) has some flaws and other licenses like - *BSD, NLP, Creative Commons are useless. You wouldn't want to work on code for a proprietary company unless you are a BSD developer There are a lot of different licenses under the creative commons family some of them impose restrictions on Freedom which we don't approve We created a Free Operating System so that all users live an ethical life in Freedom, so you don't have to break law to help your best friend with the cool new graphics program which you like very much We hacked the copyright law to give away the some of our rights which would subjugate you and called it copyleft so that you could live in freedom We don't want anyone to steal our code and subjugate users so we protect our code and fight for freedom when people want to use our code and subjugate their users using new technics like tivoisation -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Forbes.com: Toppling Linux
2006/10/28, Devdas Bhagat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So why won't the FSF finish off the HURD and get a proper GNU OS out under the GPLv3? Because Linux is *NOT* a GNU project. We started GNU project to create a complete Free Operating System. We now have such a Free Operating System with important contribution from Linus Torvalds and we want to give credit to his work we call it GNU/Linux (Linux based GNU system, GNU plus Linux) Once we had Linux available as Free Software our main aim is achieved (to give users freedom) and the reason why we didn't stop Hurd because it is designed to be better than Unix.But since we already achieved our main goal (a Free Operating System that respects its users and help them live an ethical life), the technical merits are only less important than Freedom. So we give less priority to Hurd and give more priority to fight new threats to users Freedom like DRM and Software patents ( so GPLv3 is more important to us than Hurd). But if you are interested in the technical merits like flexibility for its users, more power to the administrators, security of the system and much more from the micro kernel design ( Read what Andrew Tanenbaum thinks about these http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/reliable-os/ ) Join with the GNU Hurd hackers and help us finish it. You can try how it works. http://lily.nipl.net:/ you can get a shell account to the GNU system and see it for yourself what all cool new features it offers. Or try a live CD from http://superunprivileged.org/ Or you can get some guidelines from http://hurd.in/bin/view/Hurd/HOWTOs I promise, I will call it GNU/HURD. Sure. We will call it just GNU :-) Cheers Praveen A -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Forbes.com: Toppling Linux
2006/10/29, Dinesh Joshi [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You know, there are things which are practical and which are theoretical. You mean to say gcc is theoretical, glibs, emacs, gnome ... are theoretical? Not that its unachievable but sometimes its more important to get your product out the door than make it a idol of perfection! :P Our priority was users' freedom and we are PRACTICAL, that is why we chose Linux for a kernel rather than waiting for Hurd to finish (perfection, may be not?). We did release the product in time and it is selling hot, though they have forgotten about our contribution don't want to talk about us when they have everything got working. If Linux was not there we would have gone ahead and finished Hurd or may be chosen BSD or something else? Do you think Linux would be what it is today without GNU projects contribution and pioneering efforts? There weren't many Open Source or Scratch my itch people before GNU/Linux got popular. GNU project was started in 1984 and Linux was released in 1992 and Open Source movement was started in 1998. The idealism got us what we have today. Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Regards Praveen -- Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Forbes.com: Toppling Linux
2006/10/26, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: you seem to be unaware that the gpl (any version) represents only a small subset of licenses available. NO. GPL is _the_ most popular FOSS License. See http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/gpl-compatible.html quote SourceForge.net reported on November 10, 2003 that the GPL accounted for 71% of the 45,736 projects it hosted with OSI-approved open source licenses (next most popular were the LGPL, 10%, and the BSD licenses, 7%). /quote In fact, as of now, the most popular license appears to be the Mozilla Public License. Can you provide a link to your claim that Mozilla Public license is the most popular license. You can see Mozilla is not even coming in the first three positions. May be you mis understood the information from opensource.org quote The classic licenses, GPL, LGPL, BSD, and MIT, were the most commonly used for open-source software before the Mozilla release in early 1998. The Mozilla Public License has since become widely used. /quote It does not imply MPL is the most popular license. Further, i just went through the draft of v3 - it is a nightmare. If adopted by anyone, it is going to cause endless confusion. Can you specify which portions are not clear and why you think it causes confution? V2, on the other hand was a model of simplicity compared to this. And it has loop holes which are being exploited by the likes of Tivo. Compare the gpl to creative commons licences and you will understand the difference. Creative commons is meant for digital content and not software. Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Forbes.com: Toppling Linux
2006/10/25, Dinesh Shah [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What credible answers we can provide? Instead of RMS refusing to talk to this fellow just because he calls GNU/Linux as Linux, is just a lost opportunity to make your *point*. RMS is the founder of Free Software movement, so anything he tells will be associated with Free Software Movement. He started the GNU project so that all computer users will be Free, when you call it just Linux more than the technical reason you are completely ignoring the importance of GNU project and Freedom (Linux is never associated himself with Freedom). It would have been a no issue if we already won the game, but it is more important than ever that we speak about Freedom and teach others why Freedom is important as there is greater threats to Freedom. If Software Patents becomes a reality (everywhere) Free Software development becomes illegal as it is not possible to keep track of the patents you might violate and comply with all. Also when devices that use Free Software but deny the Freedom becomes more common it is not enough that we get the source code. RMS clearly understand the importance of Freedom and why we should teach people to respect Freedom. So it is quite natural that he insist using the right words and he stresses Freedom above all other motivations because it most threatened. Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Ask Bono To Stand With Us Against DRM
Hi, Defective by Design ( http://wwwdefectivebydesign.org ) is running a campaign encouraging Bono to take a stand on DRM will send a powerful message. Its your chance to be a prt of this campaign by signing the petition. We have reached about 5000 signatures and we are looking at 1. So pass it on to your friends as well. quote Dear Bono, You have dedicated a major part of your life's work to fighting for good causes, bringing pressure to bear on the powerful and political elite to effect positive change. In the same way that you have called for action from world leaders, we now call upon you to look at the facts surrounding Digital Restrictions Management (DRM), and join us in demanding an end to handcuffs on technology and culture. /quote Read the full petition and sign http://defectivebydesign.org/petition/bonopetition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bono Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: need a tally alternative on gnu/linux.
2006/10/17, Dinesh Joshi [EMAIL PROTECTED]: FYI Java is going to be opensourced soon. They have been talking about it for a long time. Well and good if they do. But let us wait to see that first before we talk java is open source. Also they might chose CDDL, in that case it is going to be incompatible with GPL. You might want to try gcj http://gcc.gnu.org/java/ Distributions like Fedora and Debian has Eclipse, Open Office, Azureus ... compiled using gcj. -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
2006/10/10, Mrugesh Karnik [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tuesday 10 October 2006 16:19, Nagarjuna G. wrote: Tell me something. Some people who are 'fans' of GNU, go to such lengths as to call all the software that's been licensed under the GPL, GNU software. Now if I write some software and use GPL for it, I'd most certainly not be willing to accredit it to GNU. Why should I? Like Linux said, Authors matter. By using the term GNU/Linux, it seems as though Linux is just a part of the GNU project. It is not. Linux is not part of GNU project, that is why it is not GNU Linux (softwared from GNU project has names like that GNU Emacs, GNU grub, GNU compiler collection... ) GNU/Linux (pronounced GNU slash Linux) means GNU+Linux. Just because someone uses your tools to build their own software does not mean that you own that software. Linux developed a kernel and GNU project build tools around that is a wrong idea. If you had done some reasearch about the rigin you would have realised it. GNU project was started to build a complete Free Operating system and they started replacing parts of unix and they reached a point when they replaced most parts for a Unix like system except for the kernel. At that time Linux was not released and there were no kernels available as Free Software (the original BSD license was not Free Software) so they started building their own kernel replacement called Hurd. But when Linus Torva;ds released his kernel under GPL v2 it filled that gap and we didn't have to wait for Hurd to finish to have a complete Unix like system. So instead of adopting Linux as GNU's official kernel (since it tries to be upto Unix while hurd tries to improve upon Unix ideas) Linux was combined with the rest of the GNU system to make a comple Unix like Operating System and it is called GNU-slash-Linux clearly meaning GNU+Linux (as opposed to GNU Linux would mean GNU's version of Linux). GNU project gave creadit to linux as without it we would not have the complete system and it is an important contribution. Linus torvalds didn't write the system to have a complete Free Operating system, but it was started as a college project. The motivation is different that freedom. So when you remove GNU from picture the history is twisted. The reason why the Free Software movement was started not because programming was fun but because we respect users Freedom and there was no Free operating systems available, so we wrote one. -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] How to do a minimal install?
2006/10/11, Aniket Suryavasnshi [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've heard that Linux can be installed by getting the kernel, libraries and tools of our choice separately and then compiled to form a complete OS. How can it be done? Use Gentoo. http://www.gentoo.org/ If you want even a tougher path see Debian from scratch http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/01/10/1727246 Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
2006/10/11, Nagarjuna G. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: All right, if you use Hurd then probably only GNU or Hurd/GNU! To be clear, show me one machine that runs vanilla GNU. lily.nipl.net (you can get shell access) see nipl.net -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
2006/10/10, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: be clear on one thing - GPL is not the only license around. FOSS licences range from pure BSD licences - which are the freest and least restrictive to the GPL, which is the most restrictive. GPL is a copyleft license, it guarantees that all users will get the freedom. You can build a proprietory application using BSD licensed code. It is also Free Software but not copyleft. GPL has restrction so that all users will have freedom. Apache Software Foundation does not use the GPL - and you just have to look at their projects to see the huge contribution they have made to the foss world. Clearly everyone accept that and recognises their work. And zope/plone, postgresql, python, php ... the list is endless. And also be clear that even assuming the operating system in what you call GNU/Linux is all GNU and GPL, a machine just running that operating system on that kernel is useless. It needs the applications to be useful. And a very large number of those applications are non-GNU and non-GPL. And they are free - and no one will be able to snatch away their freedom. So the assertion that the GPL is the sole guardian of freedom is false. It is more than a license issue. GPL is there to guarantee all users will have freedom. So i feel that you should stop trying to claim parentage of Linux - linux neither wants or needs it. Far better you concentrate on your own baby - hurd. GNU project started to develop a completely Free Operating system and since Linux filled the last piece to have a full OS the only motivation for hurd is technical, it tries to improve Unix design while Linux is trying to be like Unix. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
2006/10/7, Philip Tellis [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/9/25/161 Interesting insights about licencing of the kernel. Some time back Bruce Perens (the man who wrote the open source definition and co-founded the Open Source Initiative) suggested GPLv3 for Linux Kernel http://lwn.net/Articles/200656/ Ultimately, we need to recognize that Linux is a 15-year-old kernel and that there will be another technical development to superscede it eventually. I can't say what that will be, but I think the best chance of mobilizing individual contribution to it would be to use GPL 3. -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
2006/10/8, Philip Tellis [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I believe Linus' article was in response to someone's request for a poll about moving linux to the GPLv3 Hmm, I should have written some days back rather than some time back :-) It was surely not a response to this comment but I thought was interesting in this thread. -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] how can I create openoffice .odt files in emacs?
2006/9/29, Vihang Dudhalkar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You can programatically access ODF from perl with the module http://search.cpan.org/dist/OpenOffice-OODoc/OODoc.pod It is only a matter of time someone wirites a plugin for emacs. Cheers Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: debian installation complexcity, can't get installation menu.
2006/9/26, jtd [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yes it will. U can also use dselect or aptitude for an ncurses based package selection. I would suggest apt-get rather than aptitude. aptitude installs recommended packages also where as apt-get installs only dependencies. So you might end up with lot of packages which you may not actually need. Or kpackage manager or synaptic for a gui package installer. U can use alien to install rpms on a debian system or to convert rpms to debs.WARNING make sure that dependencies are met. U can occasionally mangle your system. # apt-get -f install if you mangle your system. A really helpful command when you are in trouble. -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: GPL Violations: DLINK bites the dust
2006/9/26, krishnakant Mane [EMAIL PROTECTED]: can you give me the link? I understand german. http://gpl-violations.org/news/20060922-dlink-judgement_frankfurt.html has both the press release and the judgement in German. Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Suitable distro for an old computer?
2006/9/6, Mrugesh Karnik [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, My neighbour is sick of his Windows 98 and now wants Linux on his desktop machine too, after using Kubuntu on his laptop. His is an old P3 566MHz computer with 96MB RAM. I would suggest Debian. The minimum requirement is 24MB RAM and 256MB harddisk for base system. I have installed it on my P2 266MHz (but I have 256MB RAM) system and it is running superbly. He needs to play videos, mplayer will do. For music, I need suggestions for a lightweight mp3 player. He needs something WinAmp-ish. Amarok, he loves, but its too heavy. I hate xmms and I heard bmp is not being developed these days.. For this configuration console based players will be good. I would suggest mp3blaster (but it won't be a substitute for gui and if he is a newbie it won't be good to suggest). It has got some good interface but cannot use mouse though. I have a screenshot here I'm thinking about trying out XFCE and if it seems heavy, Fluxbox will be the default. I'm running WindowMaker and it is quite good and easy. Now the question about the distro arises, because I need all the above mentioned packages in the repository of that particular distro. Also, the packages need to be compiled for i686 rather than pentium4, like Fedora is these days, if i'm not mistaken.. Debian has 686 kernel for sure but dunno about packages for sure. Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] 10 common misunderstandings about the GPL
Hi, IT Manger's journal has an article about 10 common misunderstandings about the GPL which you can read here http://www.itmanagersjournal.com/article.pl?sid=06/08/21/1659203 The experts NewsForge consulted to come up with this are: Richard Fontana, a lawyer with the Software Freedom Law Center and one of the main drafters of the third version of the license; David Turner, former compliance engineer at the Free Software Foundation who is assisting with the revisions of the license; and Harald Welte of the GPL-Violations projecthttp://gpl-violations.org/, which tracks possible cases of non-compliance and tries to assist in resolving them. quoteIn the end, Turner concedes, some degree of confusion is probably inescapable. There's always going to be people who misunderstand, he says, no matter how you write the license, even in words of one syllable. /quote Regards Praveen -- Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to learn. -- Richard Stallman Me scribbles at http://www.pravi.co.nr -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
