[LUTE] Re: Cumb=C3=A9es?=

2017-05-28 Thread Alain Veylit 
The Manchus took advantage of an unexpected flaw in the Great Wall, 
called a door. It opened from the Chinese side. Fat chance that the 
Mexicans will make the same mistake.



On 05/28/2017 01:45 PM, Dan Winheld wrote:

"I'm gonna build a wall! The Picts are gonna pay for it! Make Albion
great again!"  -Hadrian Trumpus.
Didn't work too well for the Chinese either. As far as I know, the
Mongols & the Manchus still haven't even coughed up a single yuan.
On 5/28/2017 12:00 PM, Ron Andrico wrote:

>Perhaps we should hire President Trump to build a wall for us.

I seem to recall some guy named Hadrian attempted the barrier solution
a few years back.  But I for one would donate money if you would hire
Donald Trump to build a wall, just as long as you keep him busy and
keep him over there.
RA
  __

From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [2] on behalf
of [3]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk [4]
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 1:59 PM
To: [5]howardpos...@ca.rr.com
Cc: LutList
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Cumbées?
Original Message
From: [6]howardpos...@ca.rr.com
Date: 28/05/2017 0:08
To: "Lute List"[7]
Subj: [LUTE] Re: Cumbées?   > On May 27, 2017, at 6:37 AM, 
[8]mjlhall@tiscal
i.co.uk wrote:
>
>  there were a lot of Africans in Spain during
> the 16th and 18th centuries. North African is just a short distance
> across the Mediterranean from Spain.
Tangier is, but it's 3,300 kilometers from Gibraltar to Dakar and 4,500
kilometers to Sierra Leone.  Is the cumbee a Moorish dance?
 - That is a good question.  Spain held territories in North Africa and
Spain and Portugal navigated down the west coast of Africa long before
they reached the New World. Vasco da Gama sailed to India round the
southern tip of Africa etc. at the same time that Columbus discovered
the West Indies. So the idea that any African dances must have come
from Mexico doesn't really hold water. I think the received wisdom is
that the cumbees, paracumbe and guinea and a few others all came from
Guinea or that part of Africa rather than from north of the Sahara.
Distance is not really a factor - it was Aristotle I believe - correct
me if I am wrong - who said "We Greeks live like frogs around a pond".
The Mediterranean is not much of a barrier - refugees are flooding from
Africa into Europe in boatloads by that route today. Perhaps we should
hire President Trump to build a wall for us. A suspension bridge might
be a better idea - fewer people would drown. The Roman Empire
encompassed a lot of North Africa and Spain was invaded by people from
North Africa long before the Moors arrived and some of them must have
been ethnically African.
 - So take your pick.
Monica

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References

1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
4. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
5. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
6. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
8. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Cumb=C3=A9es?=

2017-05-28 Thread howard posner 

> On May 28, 2017, at 12:59 PM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
> 
>  when I reply to messages it doesn't 
> distinguish my reply from what has gone before. Can anyone tell me what 
> I am doing wrong.

I can’t, but you might want to experiment with the quote level control, if your 
email program’s Format menu has one.



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[LUTE] Re: German keyboard tablature

2017-05-28 Thread Mathias Rösel 
   Dear Arthur,

   No, I have no idea, unfortunately, what his given name might have been.
   In 18^th century Germany, J more often than not stands for Johann(es),
   as you will know.

   Oh, and btw let me correct myself: Gumprecht was 53 yrs old at
   Frederick Louis's birth.

   Mathias


   Von: Arthur Ness [mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net]
   Gesendet: Samstag, 27. Mai 2017 23:42
   An: mathias.roe...@t-online.de; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Betreff: Re: [LUTE] Re: German keyboard tablature


   Dear Mathias,


   Yes, as you later write, I did not mean to suggest that Louise
   Frederica studied with Gumprecht d. J.  By coincidence just a few days
   ago I received by mistake the Béhune (Minkoff) facsimile, and now am
   glad that I decided to pay for it and keep it for my collection.   It's
   interesting that father and son wrote to expel Bethune so the son could
   take the position. Frederick Louis had some interesting musical travels
   and surely compiled a massive collection of scores. It is surely one of
   the largest music libraries to have survived  from the 18th
   century. And so little was lost from it over the years. By the way, do
   you know the first name of J. Caspar the Chorknab, later violist and
   scribe at the Stuttgart court?  His hand is so beautiful in the Pieces
   choises pour le Lut. .  I think he must have followed Louise to
   Mecklenberg as her secretary.  He entered some Accords in manuscripts
   copied by others (e.g., Schwinghammer), so must have advised her on
   musical matters as well.

   Arthur Ness
   [1]arthurjn...@verizon.net


   -Original Message-
   From: Mathias Rösel <[2]mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
   To: lute <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Sat, May 27, 2017 3:04 pm
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: German keyboard tablature
   Dear Arthur,
   That is interesting! Thanks for that. In 1681, father and son Gumprecht
   wrote a letter to the council of Stasburg, requesting that Jean
   Bethune, who was about to settle in Strasburg as an angélique teacher,
   be repelled from town. They seem to have been successful, as nothing is
   heard of Bethune afterwards. That very Bethune was the teacher of
   Marguerite Monin (whose lute book of 1664 in preserved in Paris) and of
   that student who penned down the angélique book that has been
   reproduced and published in facsimile by Minkoff as the only angélique
   tablature so far (F-Pn Rés. 169, manuscript Béthune).
   (Source:
   [4]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Instrumente/Angelique/Angelique.htm
   l)
   Obviously, they considered Jean Bethune a rival to Gumprecht the
   younger in matters of the angélique.
   Gumprecht's appointment in Stuttgart as a teacher as from 1688 may have
   been a delayed result of the untimely death of William Louis of
   Württemberg († 1677). William's widow had been appointed regent and
   custodian to her four children: Eleonore Dorothea (died in 1683 at the
   young age of nine), Eberhardine Luise (1675–1707), Eberhard Ludwig
   (1676–1733), and Magdalena Wilhelmine (1677–1742). At Gumprecht's
   arrival, Eberhardine was 13, Eberhard was 12, and Magdalena was 11
   years old.
   Gumprecht and Eberhard weren't allowed more than five years, as
   Eberhard was declared politically mature at age 16 by the emperor in
   1693. Eberhard became father to Frederick Louis in 1698, crown prince
   of Württemberg (who never became duke, as he died before his father in
   1731). Frederick in 1716 married Henrietta Maria of
   Brandenburg-Schwedt, with whom he had two children: Eberhard Friedrich
   (1718–1719) and Louise Frederica (1722–1791).
   Louise Frederica of Württemberg was granddaughter to Gumprecht's
   student Eberhard of Württemberg. She was 11 years old when her
   grandfather died. Later she married Frederick II Duke of
   Mecklenburg-Schwerin and brought her lute books to Mecklenburg.
   So, if Gumprecht left Stuttgart in 1715, he never came to see and teach
   Louise of Württemberg whose lute books we can study today.
   Mathias
   -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
   Von: lute-[5]a...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[6]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
   Im Auftrag von Arthur Ness
   Gesendet: Samstag, 27. Mai 2017 15:37
   An: [7]mathias.roe...@t-online.de; [8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Betreff: [LUTE] Re: German keyboard tablature
   Dear Mathias,
   Thank you for sending the *.PDF tablature with the midi audio.
   Incidentally Johann Gumprecht, d. J., (b. 1645) served in Stuttgart
   1688-1715 as "Fà�rstliche Kammer- und Tutelar-Rat fà�r die
   musikalische
   Erziehung der herzoglichen Kinder" [Sittard, p. 65]. He played at the
   usual functions (at Mass, at dinner, instructing the children and
   pages, etc.), but was especially admired for playing the Angà�lique.
   He brought with him the French Lautenkunst as practiced in Strasbourg.
   Did he teach Princess Luisse's father?
   Arthur Ness
   [9]arthurjn...@verizon.net

[LUTE] Re: Cumb=C3=A9es?=

2017-05-28 Thread Dan Winheld 
   "I'm gonna build a wall! The Picts are gonna pay for it! Make Albion
   great again!"  -Hadrian Trumpus.
   Didn't work too well for the Chinese either. As far as I know, the
   Mongols & the Manchus still haven't even coughed up a single yuan.
   On 5/28/2017 12:00 PM, Ron Andrico wrote:

   >Perhaps we should hire President Trump to build a wall for us.

   I seem to recall some guy named Hadrian attempted the barrier solution
   a few years back.  But I for one would donate money if you would hire
   Donald Trump to build a wall, just as long as you keep him busy and
   keep him over there.
   RA
 __

   From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [2] on behalf
   of [3]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk [4]
   Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 1:59 PM
   To: [5]howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   Cc: LutList
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Cumbées?
   Original Message
   From: [6]howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   Date: 28/05/2017 0:08
   To: "Lute List"[7]
   Subj: [LUTE] Re: Cumbées?   > On May 27, 2017, at 6:37 AM, 
[8]mjlhall@tiscal
i.co.uk wrote:
   >
   >  there were a lot of Africans in Spain during
   > the 16th and 18th centuries. North African is just a short distance
   > across the Mediterranean from Spain.
   Tangier is, but it's 3,300 kilometers from Gibraltar to Dakar and 4,500
   kilometers to Sierra Leone.  Is the cumbee a Moorish dance?
- That is a good question.  Spain held territories in North Africa and
   Spain and Portugal navigated down the west coast of Africa long before
   they reached the New World. Vasco da Gama sailed to India round the
   southern tip of Africa etc. at the same time that Columbus discovered
   the West Indies. So the idea that any African dances must have come
   from Mexico doesn't really hold water. I think the received wisdom is
   that the cumbees, paracumbe and guinea and a few others all came from
   Guinea or that part of Africa rather than from north of the Sahara.
   Distance is not really a factor - it was Aristotle I believe - correct
   me if I am wrong - who said "We Greeks live like frogs around a pond".
   The Mediterranean is not much of a barrier - refugees are flooding from
   Africa into Europe in boatloads by that route today. Perhaps we should
   hire President Trump to build a wall for us. A suspension bridge might
   be a better idea - fewer people would drown. The Roman Empire
   encompassed a lot of North Africa and Spain was invaded by people from
   North Africa long before the Moors arrived and some of them must have
   been ethnically African.
- So take your pick.
   Monica

   --


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[9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


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References

   1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   4. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   5. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   6. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   8. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Cumb=C3=A9es?=

2017-05-28 Thread mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 



Wow.  You just used the word “quiet” to describe Trump.

> Well he just has a lot of other things to shout about at the moment.  
With a name like that I can't resist the temptation to comment that 
"the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised 
incorruptible" perhaps the rapture is imminent.

Completely off topic - but when I reply to messages it doesn't 
distinguish my reply from what has gone before. Can anyone tell me what 
I am doing wrong.

MOnica


> On May 28, 2017, at 12:26 PM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
> 
 I don't think even he could achieve that - and I don't think he 
> would get Africa to pay for it either. He seems to have gone a bit 
> quiet on that one




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[LUTE] Re: Cumb=C3=A9es?=

2017-05-28 Thread howard posner 
Wow.  You just used the word “quiet” to describe Trump.

> On May 28, 2017, at 12:26 PM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
> 
 I don't think even he could achieve that - and I don't think he 
> would get Africa to pay for it either. He seems to have gone a bit 
> quiet on that one




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[LUTE] Re: Cumb=C3=A9es?=

2017-05-28 Thread mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 


>Perhaps we should hire President Trump to build a wall for us.

   I seem to recall some guy named Hadrian attempted the barrier 
solution
   a few years back.  
>>> Parts of it are still there and Nicola Sturgeon (if you have heard 
about her) is trying to get it repaired this time to keep the English 
out of Scotland rather than the other way around. 

But I for one would donate money if you would hire
   Donald Trump to build a wall, just as long as you keep him busy and
   keep him over there.
   RA

>>>I don't think even he could achieve that - and I don't think he 
would get Africa to pay for it either. He seems to have gone a bit 
quiet on that one but perhaps that's just the calm before the storm.  
As Pope Francis (bless him) said - we should be building bridges, not 
walls.

Monica
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on 
behalf
   of mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 
   Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 1:59 PM
   To: howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   Cc: LutList
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Cumb=C3=A9es?=

   Original Message
   From: howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   Date: 28/05/2017 0:08
   To: "Lute List"
   Subj: [LUTE] Re: Cumb=C3=A9es?=
   > On May 27, 2017, at 6:37 AM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
   >
   >  there were a lot of Africans in Spain during
   > the 16th and 18th centuries. North African is just a short 
distance
   > across the Mediterranean from Spain.
   Tangier is, but it’s 3,300 kilometers from Gibraltar to Dakar and 
4,500
   kilometers to Sierra Leone.  Is the cumbee a Moorish dance?
- That is a good question.  Spain held territories in North Africa 
and
   Spain and Portugal navigated down the west coast of Africa long 
before
   they reached the New World. Vasco da Gama sailed to India round the
   southern tip of Africa etc. at the same time that Columbus 
discovered
   the West Indies. So the idea that any African dances must have come
   from Mexico doesn't really hold water. I think the received wisdom 
is
   that the cumbees, paracumbe and guinea and a few others all came 
from
   Guinea or that part of Africa rather than from north of the Sahara.
   Distance is not really a factor - it was Aristotle I believe - 
correct
   me if I am wrong - who said "We Greeks live like frogs around a 
pond".
   The Mediterranean is not much of a barrier - refugees are flooding 
from
   Africa into Europe in boatloads by that route today. Perhaps we 
should
   hire President Trump to build a wall for us. A suspension bridge 
might
   be a better idea - fewer people would drown. The Roman Empire
   encompassed a lot of North Africa and Spain was invaded by people 
from
   North Africa long before the Moors arrived and some of them must 
have
   been ethnically African.
- So take your pick.
   Monica

   --


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[LUTE] New video on You Tube

2017-05-28 Thread Stefan Lundgren 
   Hello,
   springtime! Also in  the global village of new music for the lute?
   Well, at least in Sweden we had a wonderful sunny and warm day today.
   Here my Prelude no. 21, Op. 20 in a first recording!
   [1]https://youtu.be/6jxbvWReR1U
   All the best
   Stefan
   Lundgren Edition
   [2]www.luteonline.se

   --

References

   1. https://youtu.be/6jxbvWReR1U
   2. http://www.luteonline.se/


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[LUTE] Re: Cumb=C3=A9es?=

2017-05-28 Thread mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 


Original Message
From: howardpos...@ca.rr.com
Date: 28/05/2017 0:08 
To: "Lute List"
Subj: [LUTE] Re: Cumb=C3=A9es?=


> On May 27, 2017, at 6:37 AM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
> 
>  there were a lot of Africans in Spain during 
> the 16th and 18th centuries. North African is just a short distance 
> across the Mediterranean from Spain. 

Tangier is, but it’s 3,300 kilometers from Gibraltar to Dakar and 4,500 
kilometers to Sierra Leone.  Is the cumbee a Moorish dance?

 - That is a good question.  Spain held territories in North Africa and 
Spain and Portugal navigated down the west coast of Africa long before 
they reached the New World. Vasco da Gama sailed to India round the 
southern tip of Africa etc. at the same time that Columbus discovered 
the West Indies. So the idea that any African dances must have come 
from Mexico doesn't really hold water. I think the received wisdom is 
that the cumbees, paracumbe and guinea and a few others all came from 
Guinea or that part of Africa rather than from north of the Sahara. 
Distance is not really a factor - it was Aristotle I believe - correct 
me if I am wrong - who said "We Greeks live like frogs around a pond". 
The Mediterranean is not much of a barrier - refugees are flooding from 
Africa into Europe in boatloads by that route today. Perhaps we should 
hire President Trump to build a wall for us. A suspension bridge might 
be a better idea - fewer people would drown. The Roman Empire 
encompassed a lot of North Africa and Spain was invaded by people from 
North Africa long before the Moors arrived and some of them must have 
been ethnically African.
 - So take your pick.

Monica