[LUTE] Re: This list is ending soon!

[Arto Wikla]

Big thanks Wayne

Your list was great!!

Arto

On 30.9.2020 13.11, Wayne Cripps wrote:
> Hi Lute People -
>
>   The Dartmouth lute list is ending in less than three hours.  I certainly 
> have learned a lot from all of you and I thank you all for taking part in it.
>
>   Wayne
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute

[Arto Wikla]

And if you play continuo, it is not too complicated to play this piece
directly from the score.

Arto

On 27.9.2020 12.52, Mathias Rösel wrote:
>There's an edition of pieces by Purcell from Tree Edition for one
>archlute.
>Mathias
>  __
>
>Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
>--- Original-Nachricht ---
>Von: Rainer
>Betreff: [Lutelist] Purcell on the lute
>Datum: 27. September 2020, 9:34
>An: Lute net, lutelist
>
>Dear lute netters,
>I wonder if anybody has intabulated this for two Renaissance lutes (or
>one).
>[2]https://youtu.be/UfwO_RRgRXE
>Rainer
>--
>Lutelist mailing list
>[3]lutel...@groundsanddivisions.info
>[4]https://pairlist10.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lutelist
>
>--
>
> References
>
>1. 
> https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer
>2. https://youtu.be/UfwO_RRgRXE
>3. mailto:lutel...@groundsanddivisions.info
>4. https://pairlist10.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lutelist
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: The lute list is retiring soon

[Arto Wikla]

Big thanks to you for your valuable work of decades!!

Arto

On 22.8.2020 22.04, Wayne wrote:
> Hi -
>
>   I have been running this lute mail list since 1998, and it has been 
> interesting and fun.  Now I am retiring from my job at Dartmouth College, and 
> when I retire the computers that I have run will be shut down.  This includes 
> the  mail servers that run the lute mail list.  So it is time to retire from 
> running the lute mail list too.  I will also be closing my lute web page, my 
> lute tablature page, and "Lutes For Sale" web page.
>
>   If someone wants to take up running the lute mail list I suggest that they 
> announce it on my list in the next month, while my list is still running.  My 
> list runs using software that I wrote, and I don’t recommend that someone 
> else try to use it.  I don’t know the last day yet, but I will make an 
> announcement when my list actually closes.
>
>Wayne
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Burwell Lute Tutor Pieces

[Arto Wikla]

I second Rob's comment. Thanks Ernst!

Arto

On 3.5.2020 12.31, Rob MacKillop wrote:
>Your Scribd page has amazing treasures, Ernst!
>Rob MacKillop
>
>On Sun, 3 May 2020 at 10:19, <[1]fischer...@aon.at> wrote:
>
> Dear lute friends,
> As you most probably know, the "Burwell Lute Tutor" is a
>  manuscript
> tutor for the baroque lute. The manuscript is Miss Mary Burwell's
>  (born
> 1654) copy of a method written by an Englishman (the name Mr.
>  John
> Rogers has been suggested) who claims was himself a pupil of the
>  French
> Ennemond Gaultier. The teacher corrected Miss Burwell's copy of
>  the
> text and filled in the music examples. Both the "Burwell Lute
>  Tutor"
> and "The Lute Made Easie" (by Thomas Mace, London, 1676) are two
>  very
> authentic and surviving sources of its time teaching in great
>  detail
> from A to Z how to play the baroque lute.
> For teaching practice, the manuscript contains examples of
>  French-style
> lute pieces, mainly fragments and sometimes individual bars only.
>  The
> music examples are chaotic, with both teacher and pupil
>  contributing to
> mistakes Some of the pieces are known, and concordances exist in
>  other
> lute manuscripts, other pieces are new and unique.
> Over the last months or so I tried playing nearly all pieces
>  after I
> identified (if possible), corrected and completed majority of the
> pieces from the Burwell Lute Tutor.
> Please find here the link to my compilation of baroque lute
>  pieces from
> the "Burwell Lute Tutor":
> [1][2]http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
> Please stay healthy and resist Corona!
> Ernst Bernhard ("viennalute") from Vienna.
> --
>  References
> 1. [3]http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>  [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>--
>
> References
>
>1. mailto:fischer...@aon.at
>2. http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
>3. http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
>4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: Ballard 1612

[Arto Wikla]

Wow!

Thanks Rainer! :-)

Arto

On 01/02/2020 18:09, Rainer wrote:
> https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3446
>
> Click under "Télécharger"
>
> Rainer
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Tablature

[Arto Wikla]

I thought every serious lutenist can sing the tabulature lines.

sincerely

Arto

On 11/12/18 21:25, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:

What about those of us who compose in tabulature?

I also know a few people who can sing off the tab.
RT


http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.


On Dec 11, 2018, at 2:11 PM, Ron Andrico  wrote:

Modern tablatures appear to be a substitute
   for reading music in standard notation and seem to require aural
   familiarity with the intabulated piece.




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[LUTE] Re: Heres Paternus

[Arto Wikla]

Hi

Google translates in (from Latin:) "paternal inheritance"

Arto

On 30/05/18 19:21, Bernd Haegemann wrote:

Dear all,

a beautiful pavan by Anthony Holborne. One variant is in the Varietie of 
Lute Lessons.


Is there an explanation of the title?
Kind regards
Bernd

---
Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




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[LUTE] Re: Linear algebra

[Arto Wikla]

Well, if you have high 1st fret and low 4th fret, you get Db on the 
b-letter of the 5th course, and C# on the 4th fret of the e-letter on 
the 3rd course (assuming "renaissance" tuning in G). And of course 
tastino for the b-letter for the C#, not to speak of the F# (instead of 
Gb) is a good idea!


Arto

On 13/05/18 23:00, Ralf Mattes wrote:
  
Am Sonntag, 13. Mai 2018 21:44 CEST, Arto Wikla <wi...@cs.dartmouth.edu> schrieb:
  

Tiny comment: f#-gb, d#-eb, c#-db, etc. are not octaves! ;-)


To that I can only answer with that famous quote from Thomas Binkley: "Details!"

  ;-)

  Cheers, RalfD






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[LUTE] Re: Linear algebra

[Arto Wikla]

Tiny comment: f#-gb, d#-eb, c#-db, etc. are not octaves! ;-)

Arto

On 13/05/18 22:30, Rainer wrote:

A clarification:

Suppose you want to place the frets on a lute so that:

1) All unisons are pure. That means the f on the second course has the 
same frequency as the open 1. course, the g on the second string has the 
same pitch as the b on the 1. course, ... over all courses.


2) All octaves are pure. The c on the fourth course has half the 
frequency of the first course, 


Then you have no choice left except equal temperament.

The reason is that lutes cannot be tuned in any meantone temperament. 
You always have to accept false unisons or octaves.


Rainer

PS

I use 1/6 comma meantone. However, I have no Baroque lutes nor have I 
ever tried accord nouveaux...



On 13.05.2018 21:04, Ralf Mattes wrote:
Am Sonntag, 13. Mai 2018 20:43 CEST, Ron Andrico 
 schrieb:
    Ralf and Rainer, I believe you are in agreement.  Octaves, 
fourths and

    fifths are pure and other intervals are an approximation.


No, that's not what I (or Rainer) said. And it's wrong: Octaves are 
alway pure in all (western) tuning
systems. Fifth/forth can be pure but then will be incomensurable with 
octaves (i.e. you can't stack
fifth/forth and ever end up with pure octaves. As a matter of fact no 
pure intervals are comensurable.

That IS a mathematic fact).

  Cheers, RalfD





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[LUTE] Piece that has no connection to Indian music ;-)

[Arto Wikla]

Hi lutenists,

here is a microtonal piece by one of my composer friends. This piece 
probably cannot be combined to to any Indian raga based performance? But 
who knows? He who searches, will find...


https://soundcloud.com/juhani-nuorvala/kaiho

Anyhow, I like this piece! No lutes ther, just a piano, but the 
tuning... only one octave and 97 piano keys!


Arto



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[LUTE] Re: India News - Carnatic Music does the trick.

[Arto Wikla]

Dear Tristan,

fanciful and kind of interesting speculations you have had! Many thanks 
for the fun! I guess just that was your main intention, fooling the 
credulous.


Please, go on with your fanciful stuff! :-)

Arto


On 04/04/18 00:53, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

Sorry, I needed space for the Monteverdi.An

I'll clean up and post this one again soon.

Am 31.03.2018 um 17:15 schrieb Dan Winheld:


Feel free to comment. :)

This track was not found. Maybe it has been removed

No comment!


On 3/29/2018 5:58 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

Let's try Bull XII again - this time with Carnatic Music.
And lo and behold, it's all clear now.
(Though I think Bull used the Hindustani version, it's just that they 
don't make it like that anymore, contrary to Carnatic music)


https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/john-bull-fantasy-xii-ragam-thanam-pallavi-kharaharapriyarasikapriya-carnatic-raga-fellows 



Feel free to comment. :)



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[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Arto Wikla]

Hi dear lutenist friends

I've played many unorthodox lute thingies to the YouTube, oftenmost very 
badly. ;-) Here are links to some of them:


* Pietre Rotolanti: Dipingi nera quella porta:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuyf4uha8fs
* Something very different: short teenage memory ... ;-)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej1cDDQYOX8=youtu.be
*Sean Jib: Inflandia Hymn ;-)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFij8YnjqdU=youtu.be

And I've done much more in this scene - and I will ... ;-)

best, piece and love,

Arto



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[LUTE] Re: meantone tuning tech

[Arto Wikla]

Hi dear fellow lutenists

My experience in many international "master courses" is that those, who 
talk most of this or that tuning, "4th" or "6th" or "equal", are just 
those, who are not the best in the intonation...


Lute is a strange animal: you make compromises, you put tastini, you set 
your frets in different places, and most importantly, you really can 
also effect the pitch by your finger, not as much as the viola di gamba 
players, but yes, you can! :-)


Arto



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[LUTE] Re: Hole in the Wall

[Arto Wikla]

Oops! I have already made the intabulation! Just called it "Purcell: 
Hornpipe".


Here is the tab:
https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/Arciliuto/PurcellHornpipe200617.JPG

And here is my YouTube example of that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7hRdN00B3w=youtu.be

Arto


On 19/02/18 08:06, howard posner wrote:

On Feb 18, 2018, at 1:57 PM, Arto Wikla <wi...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

Dear theoj89294(?)

Making an intabualation of that nice piece is not very complicated. If you 
wish, I can quite easily make one for you in the near future. ... In case you 
just start signing your messages... ;-)

Arto


Arto, I’m afraid you’ve gravely insulted the 89294 family.  Ever since Roger 
89294 of Delaware signed the Declaration of Independence, the 89294 family name 
has been much honored in America, along with the Vanderbilts, Adamses, and, of 
course, Trumps.




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[LUTE] Re: Hole in the Wall

[Arto Wikla]

Dear theoj89294(?)

Making an intabualation of that nice piece is not very complicated. If 
you wish, I can quite easily make one for you in the near future. ... In 
case you just start signing your messages... ;-)


Arto

On 18/02/18 23:43, theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:

Dear Lute community:

Are there any intabulations of the English tune 'Hole in the Wall'
(Playford?) for r or b lute? Many thanks, I've always liked that
melody. trj

--


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[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists

Here is my favorite eastern-western music from my youth:

THE PAUL BUTTERFIELD BLUES BAND - EAST WEST (1966)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwMqBvBLJio
(btw: that is good music even today! :-) )

Perhaps Tristan will find some similiar ragas?

best,
Arto

On 09/02/18 01:57, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
Yep, and Apes don't look like Humans. There is no other relation 
whatsoever, pure coincidence that they look alike


If you had listened as much to the tracks while finding the right spot 
to make it sound ok without too much manipulation, you would notice more 
that just modes.
But as I said - if you don't want to hear the gestures, and how 
Sweelinck directly refers to the Raga (and Dowland too), then you don't 
listen as closely.
If we sat together in front of the stereo and I could point it out, you 
would probably be surprised not to have heard it.




Am 09.02.2018 um 00:39 schrieb Susan Sandman:
I do hear similarities between the two. But I hear similarities among 
lots of musics — from Steve Reich to “space music” to troubadour songs 
in similar modes, and do not think it means direct contact or 
transmission of the sort I think you are asserting.


I find the unique musical gestures of each more interest, and the 
unique tone colors of the instruments used more important  than 
unifying features of mode or raga however illustrated.

Susan



On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 10:38 AM Tristan von Neumann 
<tristanvonneum...@gmx.de <mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>> wrote:


    Thank you Susan!
    I am aware of Schenker - I studied musicology back in the day.
    This would be indeed the best approach, but I guess it is possible to
    find the exact match when analyzing just what is there.
    Indian understanding - as it appears to me - basically *is* 
Schenkerian,

    so I guess this step could be skipped.

    What is your opinion about the Echo Fantasy?


https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/sweelinck-echo-fantasia-ex-a-raga-asawari 




    Am 08.02.2018 um 16:31 schrieb Susan Sandman:
 > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenkerian_analysis
 >
 > Perhaps the theoretical approach of Schenker would be helpful to
 > communicate the similarities you are finding between the Bull
    Fantasia,
 > Raga Yaman and maybe Castello.  Schenker’s system is based on the
 > dynamic pull of scale tones. While to me the particularities of 
the
 > musical elaborations unique to each composer/era/culture  is of 
more

 > interest, his approach might clarify the unity of what you are
    hearing.
 > Please consult the above link.
 > Susan
 > www.ElizabethanConversation.com
    <http://www.ElizabethanConversation.com>
    <http://www.ElizabethanConversation.com>
 >
 > On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 7:02 PM Tristan von Neumann
 > <tristanvonneum...@gmx.de <mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
    <mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de <mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>>>
    wrote:
 >
 >     I would not dare to call you a fool if you actually took your
    time to
 >     listen :)
 >     In case of my experiments I grant you, there is room for 
doubt.

 >     But with Fantasy X and XII: Did you *really* listen?
 >     (I hope your disbelief did not impair your hearing. This
    human trait has
 >     been proven scientifically.)
 >     And if it's not connected, I would be very happy to know:
 >     how do you explain the total weirdness of especially those two
 >     fantasies? There is nothing remotely resembling this, and I
    have played
 >     and listened a lot. I would very much love to get other
    keyboard pieces
 >     in that style then, regardless :)
 >
 >     However (also to you, G. C.) - it is not the compatible mode,
    it is also
 >     basic motives of the Raga that can be found exactly at the
    right place,
 >     and the matching .
 >     I have yet to organize a real meeting between for example a
    singer and a
 >     keyboardist.
 >     If anything, this could be a nice intercultural exchange.
 >
 >     My old musicology professor by the way does agree with the
    finding.
 >     Though due to tempo inconsistecies (if oyu change tempo
    digitally, it
 >     sound terrible) I did not post it:
 >     If a Hindustani flute player matches Fantasy XII, it sounds
    like a
 >     Castello Sonata. I will try and prepare a mix with that, but
    I have not
     >     yet found the right music source.
 >     Anyone interested may get an mp3 in private email.
 >
 >
 >     Am 07.02.2018 um 23:32 schrieb Arto Wikla:
 >      > Well, I listened carefully all those example combinations
    of Bull's
 >      > harpsichord pieces 

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

[Arto Wikla]

Well, I listened carefully all those example combinations of Bull's 
harpsichord pieces and the suggested similiar(?) raga performances, and 
sincerely I could not find much in common between them, just two 
different sound clips connected. Tristan von Neumann is of course free 
to name me also "fool" even after I really listened his medleys, but 
while I definitely strongly disagree his idea... ;-)


all the best,

Arto

On 07/02/18 07:53, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

 > Those who would even want to listen are fools.

Of course, those who wouldn't.

Am 07.02.2018 um 06:48 schrieb Tristan von Neumann:

I can't believe almost no one is excited about this discovery.

All those who *still* doubt me, listen to this epic Raga Yaman
accompanied by John Bull's Fantasy XII.
I did nothing but adjust the pitch and placement of the tracks.

https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/fantasy-xii-raga-yaman

Those who would even want to listen are fools.
Like the pope who wouldn't look through Galilei's telescope.

Those who will listen will hear.



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[LUTE] Re: Mystery Solved: John Bull had contact with IndianClassical Music

[Arto Wikla]

Hi all

My friend, Finnish composer and specialist of Indian classical music and 
culture, commented Tristan's example by pointing to this funny video, 
which represents the type of joke that is not rare in Indian humour:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ueGc2MTGog

Arto

On 05/02/18 23:44, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

This should be a surprise to many.

Some might remember asking about this.

As it turns out I found the Raga on which the Fantasy X is based on:
It's Bhairav - a compatible mode with all things Phrygian.

As hard proof, here is my rendering of a Veena (hey, it's a lute!) 
Harpsichord Duet played by John Bull and an unknown visitor from India.


https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/john-bull-fantasy-x-raga-bhairav

I did *nothing* but paste the Raga under the Fantasy in audacity, and 
adjust the base note so it matches the intended tuning.
I started the Fantasy after exposition of the Raga, as would be 
intended. And magically, it all *adds up*.
*All* changes in tempo and even the triplet is met with similar action 
on the Veena.

*It is as if the two would play together*.

I will prepare a paper on this. I am extremely excited! India in Early 
Music!

This is what wondered me always, that quirky style of John Bull.
I suspect his Salvator Mundi II is inspired by Indian music.

If you know a Veena player, you can finally play a real piece of Early 
Fusion!



(Please gently ignore my mad luting on the other tracks.)



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[LUTE] Re: Ballard 1614

[Arto Wikla]

Big thanks for the great facsimile! To the on-line publisher, the finder 
of it and also the nice version connector! :-)


And I suppose that if you can play these pieces, you also quite easily 
find out, when there is an "e" and when there is a "c", don't you. ;-)


all the best,
Arto

On 12/01/18 20:22, Rainer wrote:

On 12.01.2018 19:09, Nancy Carlin wrote:
I agree 100% THANK YOU!!  Now if we could have just convinced Ballard 
to rethink is fonts - the c's and e's are really hard to tell apart.


This is true. Even in the facsimile of the 1611 book (EXCELLENT quality) 
it is hard to see the difference.


Mertel is even worse...

Rainer



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[LUTE] Re: German keyboard tablature

[Arto Wikla]

Perhaps this page helps:

http://musicofyesterday.com/historical-music-theory/early-history-of-tablature/

Arto



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[LUTE] Re: Odd tuning

[Arto Wikla]

Äh,  must be G-c-e-g-b-e

(I cannot count to six ;-) )

Arto


On 07/04/17 17:17, Arto Wikla wrote:

Hi

If it is the same as in his "Libro Tertzo", the six fingerboard courses
are (assuming the 6th is in G):

G-c-e-b-e  ("b" in the English sense)

Arto

On 07/04/17 09:29, Alain Veylit wrote:

Anybody knows what the "Cordatura del signor Virgo" is like? (It is for
archlute used by Meli)



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[LUTE] Re: Odd tuning

[Arto Wikla]

Hi

If it is the same as in his "Libro Tertzo", the six fingerboard courses 
are (assuming the 6th is in G):


G-c-e-b-e  ("b" in the English sense)

Arto

On 07/04/17 09:29, Alain Veylit wrote:

Anybody knows what the "Cordatura del signor Virgo" is like? (It is for
archlute used by Meli)



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[LUTE] Re: Density of Savarez KF Alliance Strings?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear Susanne

Years ago I went to a pharmacy and asked them to measure the weight of 
one KF string with their precision scale. I had by myself measured the 
length and thickness very accurately. After calculatios I got the 
density 1791 Kg/m³.


This has worked to me.

I hope this helps!

Arto

On 15/03/17 20:38, Susanne Herre wrote:


Dear all,

Does anyone know the exact density of Savarez KF Alliance Strings? (to
feed the string calculator with the correct info ;-))

That would be really helpful!

Many thanks,

Susanne Herre



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[LUTE] No problems on my lute! Was: basses in octaves

[Arto Wikla]

Hi lute gang and Bruno

Bruno and others had problems in getting Aquila loaded nylgut CD and 
normal NNG strings work well in tune, when used as a pair 
fundamental-octave. I have had no problem in this.


Here is the proof:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVmmPulDLVc=youtu.be

The strings are 140 CD (2.95 Kg) and 66 NNG (2.62 Kg)

All the best,

Arto



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[LUTE] Re: String calculators

[Arto Wikla]

Neither I dare let Java applets run, but my most simple calculator runs 
in JavaScript, see

  https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/Calcs/mc.html

I use that, but you'll certainly find more advanced calculators, too.

Arto

On 01/03/17 15:59, Leonard Williams wrote:

Can anyone recommend a good online string calculator?  I used to use
Arto's, but I'm currently being blocked by Java on my Mac (running Sierra
— OS 10.12).  Or perhaps someone more tech savvy than I (easily done!)
knows a work-around.

Thanks and regards,
Leonard Williams





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[LUTE] Re: basses in octaves

[Arto Wikla]

In the "dark times", actually medieval times, they used the Pythagorean 
tuning, in which the major third is even larger than in the equal 
temperament. That third really is very dissonant!


Arto

On 01/03/17 10:18, Lex van Sante wrote:

The major third is a dissonance in equal temperament because it is way too big.
Even the perfect major third was considered to be an imperfect consonance in 
the dark ages.

Lex

Op 1 mrt. 2017, om 09:03 heeft Matthew Daillie  het 
volgende geschreven:

Could you explain what you mean Ron, I don't understand this at all. Why do you 
say the interval of a third is a dissonant interval?
Best
Matthew

On Mar 1, 2017, at 5:13, Ron Andrico  wrote:

3) It's not the g string on guitar that is the cause of the tuning
 problem, stiff though it may be for nylon players.  The culprit is the
 b string, which is tuned at the interval of a third from the g string,
 which is a dissonant interval.




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[LUTE] Re: basses in octaves

[Arto Wikla]

Hi Bruno

No problems on my archlute's 6th and 7th. CDs and NNG octaves.

Arto

On 28/02/17 19:56, Bruno Cognyl-Fournier wrote:

   Dear Collective wisdom,
   I have been tuning my 5 and 6th course in octaves for years, with wound
   strings and gut or nylgut.
   recently I bought the CD loaded strings from Mimmo and am slowly
   getting used to them. I have thus replaced the fundamental with CD
   loaded, while keeping my octave strings in gut or nylgut, this on two
   different lutes.
   I have noticed that the octaves are horribly out of tune as I go up the
   neck, especially by the time you get to the 7th fret.   I realize I
   rarely have to play up there, but it bothers me.   Am trying to figure
   out what the problem is.. would it be a mismatch of tension? or would
   it be the Loaded CD strings, that as some of you have probably found to
   be very elastic.   I have never had this issue with wound string/gut
   combinations.
   I will be testing each string individually to check which one goes out
   of tune as you move up the scale, but I suspect it is the Loaded string
   that is giving me the problem.
   any comments?
   Bruno

   --


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[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners

[Arto Wikla]

I sincerely cannot understand the idea of those hidden "machine heads"! 
Violinists, viola players, cellists, ..., do not use those.
Why should I? The old friction pegs are so easy, fast and good - if they 
are. I have had the luck of having good ones.


But everyone may choose his/her own way, I'm not opposing modern peg 
technology, but it certainly is not for me! :-)


happy friction peg (is that the right term?) user,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing

[Arto Wikla]

Dear Mimmo,

if you decide to make the loaded nylgut strings (CD) less elastic, I 
hope (and wish and urge ;-) ) that you keep also the original elastic 
version in your repertoire! They work exceptionally well on my Harz 
arclute, great stuff.


And big thanks for your invaluable work!

Arto

On 02/02/17 14:03, Mimmo Peruffo wrote:

Well, seeing this post I have the idea to switch to these stiffer ones.
at the end of the day they are closer to those loaded strings made of gut.
I will do some samples in advance.
Mimmo




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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing

[Arto Wikla]

Hi

My first impressions of the Aquila loaded nylgut strings are very good 
(archlute cc, G and F; 2x5th, 6th and 7th).


My 1st check:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7boXtpffL0=youtu.be

And 3 recorded real pieces:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV7q2jxMK3Q=youtu.be
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yspjfd8HIlc=youtu.be
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43ekVyr2BHI=youtu.be

And much more use in continuo...

I recommend!

Arto

On 01/02/17 23:33, Rob MacKillop wrote:

Hi David,

I'm hugely impressed with the new Aquila Loaded Nylgut - see their website for 
details. After three days they settled quickly into tuning, and I rarely have 
to tweak them. Good sound too.

Rob MacKillop


On 1 Feb 2017, at 21:25, David Rastall  wrote:

It seems I am back playing Baroque lute once again, after rather a long hiatus. 
 It’s been long enough that I have forgotten some of the points of conventional 
wisdom concerning stringing.  I’m playing an 11c lute currently strung with 
silver-wound basses and Pyramid nylon mids and trebles.  I’m not so much 
bothered by the sustain of the nylon strings, but if you folks can refresh my 
memory:  what is the best choice of basses to get a sustain which is not 
downright thunky or chunky, but has shorter sustain than the silver-wounds?

David R



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[LUTE] Re: Purcell

[Arto Wikla]

Hi Bruno

Perhaps you can arrange (and select) some of the variations of my arr of
Purcell's Chaconne (from King Arthur) to archlute?

My tab is in
 https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/PurcellChaconne020916.pdf

And my video of playing it is in
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olsmDPzPDq4=youtu.be

Moving many of the low basses to higher octave should not be too 
complicated.


best,

Arto

On 30/09/16 17:18, Bruno Figueiredo wrote:

   I have been asked to play on Purcell's Dido (modern orchestra at 442
   with my little 8 course - ok, we can skip this part) and the conductor
   asked for a solo lute piece by Purcell or someone in the same style. Is
   there any dance tune of him transcribed for renaissance lute? I thought
   that maybe a saraband by Puccinini might work...
   Any advice is welcomed!
   --
   Bruno Figueiredo

   Pesquisador autônomo da prática e interpretação
   historicamente informada no alaúde e teorba.
   Doutor em Práticas Interpretativas  pela
   Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.

   --


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[LUTE] Re: Haydn on lute?

[Arto Wikla]

This group is fantastic! Thanks to everyone! :-)

Arto



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[LUTE] Haydn on lute?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear fellow lutenists.

there is some chamber music to lute by Haydn. I just cannot find it!
Any advice or help?

Arto



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[LUTE] Re: Imprecise diameters on Savarez Alliance KF envelopes.

[Arto Wikla]

The difference between 0.50 mm and 0.52 mm KF's is actually not very big!

If we take for example string length 600 mm and a = 220 Hz, we get the 
following "tensions" (well just "Kilograms" on our dear Earth ;-) )


KF 50 = 0.50 mm => 2.598 Kg ~ 2.6 Kg
KF 52 = 0.52 mm => 2.702 Kg ~ 2.7 Kg

The difference with, let us say, KF 50 from a=220 to bb=233.08 is from 
2.6 Kg to 2.8 Kg. So this KF 50 - KF 52 example corresponds about a 
quarter tone difference in the tension, which is not very big...


All the best,

Arto

On 04/05/16 21:42, Herbert Ward wrote:


I measured seven Savarez Alliance KF strings, and compared my measurements with
the sizes printed on the envelopes.  These were brand-new unused strings.

There was quite a bit of inconsistency.  My measurements ranged from 4% above
the envelope value to 4% below.

But it seems strange that people who achieve the precision needed to make
a lute string would be so imprecise in labeling their envelopes.

I'm guessing that they round the number off to the closest whole number.
For example, a KF 52 might actually be KF 52.2.  Then they propagate that
inaccuracy to the inches number.

At any rate, this complicates the process of ordering replacements for
broken strings.



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[LUTE] Re: Stringing for baroque lute.

[Arto Wikla]

Hi all,

as I already wrote earlier, the KFs can be calculated as "carbons", the 
density 1791 Kg/m³ works well. Actually years ago I measured a KF string 
with my micron and with pharmacy's precision scale. Then it was easy to 
calculate the density ...


Arto


On 25/04/16 11:25, Martin Shepherd wrote:

Hi Matthew,

Yes, it's a pity they don't provide us with an accurate PUL for the KF
strings as well!  They just say they're roughly the same density as gut,
which is nonsense.

The PULs are also badly labelled because they just add a 2 (which is not
really part of the number) to indicate copperwound as opposed to
silvered copper, when that information is already supplied by the prefix
letters NFA, NFC, etc. so (as far as I know) "NFC212" (copperwound) is
the same as "NFA210" (silvered copper).  If I'm wrong, please correct me!

Martin

On 25/04/2016 10:13, Matthew Daillie wrote:

Dear Hubert,

I think there is some confusion here. The PUL number (poids par unité
de longueur) is given by Savarez for its overwound strings so as to be
able to calculate tensions and varies from one type of overwound
string to another. It is not an indication per se of light or heavy
tensions but enables you to determine a particular tension for a
specific course.
Savarez used to supply a string calculator in the form of an Excel
spreadsheet but this is completely out of date and full of bugs. I
tried phoning them this morning but the technician won't be in until
this afternoon. I shall ring back then and keep you posted.
In the meantime why don't you use Paul Beier's calculator, that has
densities for Savarez strings?
What type of string do you wish to use for the 9th fundamental?
Best
Matthew



On Apr 25, 2016, at 5:00, Herbert Ward  wrote:


As an experiment, I put extremely light strings on my baroque lute.
This made the tone very difficult to control.   This is pretty good
practice, but in a month or two I need to venture out of the house
with the lute.

So it's string buying time.

Can someone give me a Savarez PUL number for the fundamental of the
9th course (E) at A=415 with a 68.5 cm string length?  Also helpful
would be an indication of whether the PUL corresponds to heavy, medium,
or light stringing.

Google searches gave nothing useful.



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[LUTE] Re: Strings for Liuto attiorbato

[Arto Wikla]

I have calculated Savarez KFs as if they were "carbon" strings: 1791 Kg/m³

Works.

Arto


On 17/04/16 16:16, Mathias Rösel wrote:


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Dear Collected Wisdom,



As I’m planning the stringing of a liuto attiorbato, I’ve encountered some
difficulties. It will have seven courses on the fretboard with 58 cm VSL and
seven courses on the second peg box with 84 cm VSL (fundamentals and
octaves).

Pitch is a’ = 415 Hz, tension is normal (2.86 kg per fretboard string, 3.06
kg per fundamental, 2.75 kg per octave string)



Paul Beier’s string calculator suggests that Savarez NF strings be taken for
the 6th to 14th fundamentals (copper wound nylon strings).

The reasons seems to be that the calculator apparently considers gut strings
thicker than 1.5 mm problematic. And they may be so.

It is my conviction, though, that lutes shouldn’t be strung with metal wound
strings.



The easy solution would be ordering loaded gut strings from Aquila. It is my
understanding, though, that Mimmo is currently not producing his excellent
loaded gut strings.



Martin Shepherd, in his interesting article on building a liuto attiorbato,
writes that he took “Savarez KF (a kind of harp string) for the basses”. I
looked up their charts but couldn’t discover tensions and pitches,
unfortunately.



Suggestions very much appreciated!



Mathias


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