[LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie

2015-11-30 Thread denyssteph...@sky.com 
   Wayne is right - it's the staynes morris tune. I asked myself the same
   question when I was arranging that carol for a Christmas concert a
   couple of years ago. Arrangers of the tune often give the impression
   that a setting of the song is to be found in the Ballet manuscript,
   which is not the case. I suspect that very few of them will have seen
   the original. For the purposes of accompanying a choir it would be much
   better in my opinion to intabulate the setting they are working from -
   the Ballet setting is unlikely to be a perfect fit.
   Best wishes,
   Denys
 __

   From: Wayne <wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Monday, 30 November 2015, 16:09
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie
   Would that be the Staynes Morris on page 91 ?
 Wayne
   > Begin forwarded message:
   >
   > From: Edward Martin <[1]edvihuel...@gmail.com>
   > Date: November 30, 2015 at 10:53:51 AM EST
   > To: lute net <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   > Subject: [LUTE] Blessed be that Maid Marie
   >
   >  Dear ones,
   >I have been asked by a professional choir to play along with a
   >  Christmas Carol, Blessed be that Maid Marie.  There are modern
   choral
   >  arrangements of this piece, and they all attribute that it is from
   the
   >  William Ballet Lute Book.  Here is a link to the book in digital
   >  format, from a library in Dublin, of the Ballet Lute Book:
   >  [1][3]http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
   >  I looked through it, and I could not find a piece with this title,
   and
   >  it is also not listed in  Julia Craig-McFeely's thesis, and she
   doesn't
   >  list any piece by that name in any English source.  I looked at the
   >  pices in the book, and could not find any of the tablatures that
   seem
   >  to match the melody of this piece.
   >  Allan Alexander did a beautiful adaptation years ago with variations
   >  (published in the LSA November 2004 Holiday newsletter, page 44),
   but I
   >  am unable to find the original.
   >  Does this piece exist in the book under a different title?
   >  Any assistance is appreciated!
   >  Happy luting,
   >  ed
   >
   >  --
   >
   > References
   >
   >  1. [4]http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >

   --

References

   1. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
   4. http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie

2015-11-30 Thread Wayne 
The Ballet version got a reworking to make it into the Christmas
tune.  The Ballet original is in 6/8 time which is different from the carol
and the contemporary morris dance tune, and the original has some rough
passages which would need reworking.

 Wayne

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: "denyssteph...@sky.com" <denyssteph...@sky.com>
> Date: November 30, 2015 at 11:41:41 AM EST
> To: Wayne <wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>, "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" 
> <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie
> 
>   Wayne is right - it's the staynes morris tune. I asked myself the same
>   question when I was arranging that carol for a Christmas concert a
>   couple of years ago. Arrangers of the tune often give the impression
>   that a setting of the song is to be found in the Ballet manuscript,
>   which is not the case. I suspect that very few of them will have seen
>   the original. For the purposes of accompanying a choir it would be much
>   better in my opinion to intabulate the setting they are working from -
>   the Ballet setting is unlikely to be a perfect fit.
>   Best wishes,
>   Denys
> __
> 
>   From: Wayne <wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>   Sent: Monday, 30 November 2015, 16:09
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie
>   Would that be the Staynes Morris on page 91 ?
> Wayne
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: Edward Martin <[1]edvihuel...@gmail.com>
>> Date: November 30, 2015 at 10:53:51 AM EST
>> To: lute net <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> Subject: [LUTE] Blessed be that Maid Marie
>> 
>> Dear ones,
>>   I have been asked by a professional choir to play along with a
>> Christmas Carol, Blessed be that Maid Marie.  There are modern
>   choral
>> arrangements of this piece, and they all attribute that it is from
>   the
>> William Ballet Lute Book.  Here is a link to the book in digital
>> format, from a library in Dublin, of the Ballet Lute Book:
>> [1][3]http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
>> I looked through it, and I could not find a piece with this title,
>   and
>> it is also not listed in  Julia Craig-McFeely's thesis, and she
>   doesn't
>> list any piece by that name in any English source.  I looked at the
>> pices in the book, and could not find any of the tablatures that
>   seem
>> to match the melody of this piece.
>> Allan Alexander did a beautiful adaptation years ago with variations
>> (published in the LSA November 2004 Holiday newsletter, page 44),
>   but I
>> am unable to find the original.
>> Does this piece exist in the book under a different title?
>> Any assistance is appreciated!
>> Happy luting,
>> ed
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> References
>> 
>> 1. [4]http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
>   2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>   3. http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
>   4. http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
>   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie

2015-11-30 Thread Bruno Cognyl-Fournier 
   [1]https://books.google.ca/books?id=CIkD5rhdva0C=PA40=PA40=Bl
   essed+Be+That+Maid+Mary+ballet+lute+book=bl=Kl4flDYorI=_
   5p-H-Hp8KmuU0TaIo3ajTl6lRw=fr=X=0ahUKEwjEtMWcyLjJAhVGJh4KHVKh
   DWAQ6AEIOTAF#v=onepage=Blessed%20Be%20That%20Maid%20Mary%20ballet%20l
   ute%20book=false

   2015-11-30 10:53 GMT-05:00 Edward Martin <[2]edvihuel...@gmail.com>:

Dear ones,
 I have been asked by a professional choir to play along with a
Christmas Carol, Blessed be that Maid Marie.There are modern
 choral
arrangements of this piece, and they all attribute that it is
 from the
William Ballet Lute Book.Here is a link to the book in
 digital
format, from a library in Dublin, of the Ballet Lute Book:
[1][3]http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
I looked through it, and I could not find a piece with this
 title, and
it is also not listed in   Julia Craig-McFeely's thesis, and she
 doesn't
list any piece by that name in any English source.I looked at
 the
pices in the book, and could not find any of the tablatures that
 seem
to match the melody of this piece.
Allan Alexander did a beautiful adaptation years ago with
 variations
(published in the LSA November 2004 Holiday newsletter, page 44),
 but I
am unable to find the original.
Does this piece exist in the book under a different title?
Any assistance is appreciated!
Happy luting,
ed
--
 References
1. [4]http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. 
https://books.google.ca/books?id=CIkD5rhdva0C=PA40=PA40=Blessed+Be+That+Maid+Mary+ballet+lute+book=bl=Kl4flDYorI=_5p-H-Hp8KmuU0TaIo3ajTl6lRw=fr=X=0ahUKEwjEtMWcyLjJAhVGJh4KHVKhDWAQ6AEIOTAF#v=onepage=Blessed%20Be%20That%20Maid%20Mary%20ballet%20lute%20book=false
   2. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   3. http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
   4. http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie

2015-11-30 Thread Wayne 
Would that be the Staynes Morris on page 91 ?

   Wayne


> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Edward Martin 
> Date: November 30, 2015 at 10:53:51 AM EST
> To: lute net 
> Subject: [LUTE] Blessed be that Maid Marie
> 
>   Dear ones,
>I have been asked by a professional choir to play along with a
>   Christmas Carol, Blessed be that Maid Marie.   There are modern choral
>   arrangements of this piece, and they all attribute that it is from the
>   William Ballet Lute Book.   Here is a link to the book in digital
>   format, from a library in Dublin, of the Ballet Lute Book:
>   [1]http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
>   I looked through it, and I could not find a piece with this title, and
>   it is also not listed in  Julia Craig-McFeely's thesis, and she doesn't
>   list any piece by that name in any English source.   I looked at the
>   pices in the book, and could not find any of the tablatures that seem
>   to match the melody of this piece.
>   Allan Alexander did a beautiful adaptation years ago with variations
>   (published in the LSA November 2004 Holiday newsletter, page 44), but I
>   am unable to find the original.
>   Does this piece exist in the book under a different title?
>   Any assistance is appreciated!
>   Happy luting,
>   ed
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie

2015-11-30 Thread Edward Martin 
   Dear all,
   Thank you for all your responses!   Deciphering puzzling pieces such as
   this make such interesting discussion!   Wayne is correct, it is the
   staynes morris tune, but the choral version I have is VERY different,
   as many have cited here.   Not only is the time signature different in
   the Choral piece (4/4) where the original is "mostly" in 6/8, there are
   also many ficta changes.   In the first measure of the pieces, the f#
   is f natural in the choral piece, in the 2nd measure, the e naturals
   are e flats in the choral piece.   Clearly, changing this from "major"
   to minor" and changing the rhythm clearly makes the melody almost
   unrecognizable.   Not to mention, The Ballet version is in relative g
   minor, where the choral version is in e minor (perhaps inspired by a
   guitar arrangement?).
   I had looked at Staynes Morris, but looking at the major inflection
   with the rhythm not matching, I missed it.   Good eye, Wayne!
   Also thanks to Denys, Art, Allan, Bruno, and all who contributed to
   this discussion!   You all were correct.
   The choir director gave me the piece in 4 parts, and on the sheet he
   gave me, it states:
   Text:  Old English Carol, Sloane MS. 2593
   Music:  BALLET 2483
   From William Ballet's Lute Book, c. 1600, MS in the Library
   of Trinity College, Dublin
   Harmonization by Dr. Charles Wood from The Cowley Carol
   Book, 1902.
   I wanted to play the original between verses for a contrast, but that
   would result in chaos, with a key change, ficta change, rhythm change,
   etc.   I shall simply play along with the score of the choral part, and
   improvise a solo part. The arranger could have done is a favor by
   identifying which piece inspired the arrangement.
   Thanks!

   On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Wayne <[1]wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   wrote:

   The Ballet version got a reworking to make it into the Christmas
   tune.   The Ballet original is in 6/8 time which is different from the
   carol
   and the contemporary morris dance tune, and the original has some rough
   passages which would need reworking.
Wayne
   > Begin forwarded message:
   >
   > From: "[2]denyssteph...@sky.com" <[3]denyssteph...@sky.com>
   > Date: November 30, 2015 at 11:41:41 AM EST
   > To: Wayne <[4]wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>, "[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu"
   <[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie
   >
   >Wayne is right - it's the staynes morris tune. I asked myself the
   same
   >question when I was arranging that carol for a Christmas concert a
   >couple of years ago. Arrangers of the tune often give the
   impression
   >that a setting of the song is to be found in the Ballet
   manuscript,
   >which is not the case. I suspect that very few of them will have
   seen
   >the original. For the purposes of accompanying a choir it would be
   much
   >better in my opinion to intabulate the setting they are working
   from -
   >the Ballet setting is unlikely to be a perfect fit.
   >Best wishes,
   >Denys
   >
   __
   >
   >From: Wayne <[7]wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   >To: [8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   >Sent: Monday, 30 November 2015, 16:09
   >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie
   >Would that be the Staynes Morris on page 91 ?
   >  Wayne
   >> Begin forwarded message:
   >>
   >> From: Edward Martin <[1][9]edvihuel...@gmail.com>
   >> Date: November 30, 2015 at 10:53:51 AM EST
   >> To: lute net <[2][10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   >> Subject: [LUTE] Blessed be that Maid Marie
   >>
   >> Dear ones,
   >>I have been asked by a professional choir to play along with a
   >> Christmas Carol, Blessed be that Maid Marie.   There are modern
   >choral
   >> arrangements of this piece, and they all attribute that it is from
   >the
   >> William Ballet Lute Book.   Here is a link to the book in digital
   >> format, from a library in Dublin, of the Ballet Lute Book:
   >> [1][3][11]http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
   >> I looked through it, and I could not find a piece with this title,
   >and
   >> it is also not listed in   Julia Craig-McFeely's thesis, and she
   >doesn't
   >> list any piece by that name in any English source.   I looked at the
   >> pices in the book, and could not find any of the tablatures that
   >seem
   >> to match the melody of this piece.
   >> Allan Alexander did a beautiful adaptation years ago with variations
   >> (published in the LSA November 2004 Holiday newsletter, page

[LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie

2015-11-30 Thread Edward Martin 
   One more thing - google books has this entry, for those interested:
   [1]https://books.google.com/books?id=CIkD5rhdva0C=PA40=blessed+be
   +that+maid+marie=en=X=0ahUKEwiMqIb65bjJAhUK8CYKHePpBcEQ6AEIKz
   AB#v=onepage=blessed%20be%20that%20maid%20marie=false

   On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Edward Martin
   <[2]edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Dear all,
  Thank you for all your responses!Deciphering puzzling pieces
   such as
  this make such interesting discussion!Wayne is correct, it is
   the
  staynes morris tune, but the choral version I have is VERY
   different,
  as many have cited here.Not only is the time signature different
   in
  the Choral piece (4/4) where the original is "mostly" in 6/8, there
   are
  also many ficta changes.In the first measure of the pieces, the
   f#
  is f natural in the choral piece, in the 2nd measure, the e naturals
  are e flats in the choral piece.Clearly, changing this from
   "major"
  to minor" and changing the rhythm clearly makes the melody almost
  unrecognizable.Not to mention, The Ballet version is in relative
   g
  minor, where the choral version is in e minor (perhaps inspired by a
  guitar arrangement?).
  I had looked at Staynes Morris, but looking at the major inflection
  with the rhythm not matching, I missed it.Good eye, Wayne!
  Also thanks to Denys, Art, Allan, Bruno, and all who contributed to
  this discussion!You all were correct.
  The choir director gave me the piece in 4 parts, and on the sheet he
  gave me, it states:
  Text:   Old English Carol, Sloane MS. 2593
  Music:   BALLET 2483
  From William Ballet's Lute Book, c. 1600, MS in the
   Library
  of Trinity College, Dublin
  Harmonization by Dr. Charles Wood from The Cowley Carol
  Book, 1902.
  I wanted to play the original between verses for a contrast, but
   that
  would result in chaos, with a key change, ficta change, rhythm
   change,
  etc.I shall simply play along with the score of the choral part,
   and
  improvise a solo part. The arranger could have done is a favor by
  identifying which piece inspired the arrangement.
  Thanks!

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Wayne
 <[1][3]wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
wrote:
The Ballet version got a reworking to make it into the Christmas
tune.The Ballet original is in 6/8 time which is different
 from the
carol
and the contemporary morris dance tune, and the original has some
 rough
passages which would need reworking.
 Wayne
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: "[2][4]denyssteph...@sky.com"
 <[3][5]denyssteph...@sky.com>
> Date: November 30, 2015 at 11:41:41 AM EST
> To: Wayne <[4][6]wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>,
 "[5][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu"
    <[6][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie
>
> Wayne is right - it's the staynes morris tune. I asked
 myself the
same
> question when I was arranging that carol for a Christmas
 concert a
> couple of years ago. Arrangers of the tune often give the
impression
> that a setting of the song is to be found in the Ballet
manuscript,
> which is not the case. I suspect that very few of them will
 have
seen
> the original. For the purposes of accompanying a choir it
 would be
much
> better in my opinion to intabulate the setting they are
 working
from -
> the Ballet setting is unlikely to be a perfect fit.
> Best wishes,
> Denys
>

 __
>
> From: Wayne <[7][9]wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> To: [8][10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Sent: Monday, 30 November 2015, 16:09
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie
> Would that be the Staynes Morris on page 91 ?
>   Wayne
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> From: Edward Martin <[1][9][11]edvihuel...@gmail.com>
>> Date: November 30, 2015 at 10:53:51 AM EST
>> To: lute net <[2][10][12]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> Subject: [LUTE] Blessed be that Maid Marie
>>
>> Dear ones,
>> I have been asked by a professional choir to play along
 with a
>> Christmas Carol, Blessed be that Maid Marie.There are
 modern
> choral
>> arra

[LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie (attn. Paul Kieffer)

2015-11-30 Thread AJN 
You need to use McFeely's inventory with GREAT CARE.  The Ballet Ms is
   right there, although you have to look hard to find it.  Hint: upper
   right hand corner under Ms. 408/1.  Also the bibliography.
   Otherwise you wouldn't know what's what.  And I must warn all of you
   about "fascicle manuscripts."  Denys and others have had problems with
   them.  Often, even in the distant past,

   unrelated manuscripts are sometimes bound together.  In the Munich lute
   manuscript, for several centuries, lute music, when it was received,
   was tossed into several envelopes, as sheet music.
   One envelope even somehow included orchestral parts for a 17th century
   ballet, along with the tablatures. In 1868 the sheets were taken out of
   the envelopes and
   bound together, although they were from various places and times. MusMs
   266 has 11 unrelated fascicles dating from ca. 1536 to 1577.
   For Ballet you need to look for Ms. 408/1. The shelf number for the
   Ballet manuscript has changed from Dublin, Trinity College Library, Ms.
   D.1.21 to Ibid., Ms.408/1.
   That's essential information, and McFeely fails to tell us!!
   Ms. D.1.21 formerly encompassed two unrelated manuscripts. It was a
   fascicle manuscript.  Now the second fascicle is Ms. 408/2.   Similarly
   with the Dallis Manuscript.
   I didn't find "Maid Mary," but McFeely says she left out some
   pieces.  That is, McFeely, not Mary.

   On 11/30/15, Wayne
   <<>>
   > William Ballet Lute Book. Here is a link to the book in digital
   > format, from a library in Dublin, of the Ballet Lute Book:
   > [1][1]http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
   > I looked through it, and I could not find a piece with this title,
   and
   > it is also not listed in Julia Craig-McFeely's thesis, and she
   doesn't
   > list any piece by that name in any English source. I looked at the
   > pices in the book, and could not find any of the tablatures that seem
   <<>>
   > References
   >
   > 1. [2]http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >

References

   1. http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
   2. http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/content/1297/pdf/1297.pdf
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/

[LUTE] Re: Blessed be that Maid Marie

2012-11-23 Thread David Smith 
The Lute Society of America has a microfilm of MS D.1.21 that is available
to members but the quality is pretty bad.

Regards
David

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of Christopher Stetson
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 10:03 AM
To: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Blessed be that Maid Marie

   Hello, all,

   While looking for seasonal material, a singer I work with mentioned
   Blessed Be That Maid Marie, wondering if anyone had made an
   arrangement for lute?.  I admit I'd never heard of it, but an internet
   search revealed that the music (is) from William Ballet's Lutebook
   (Trinity College MS  D.1.21), but apparently that book has not been
   made available in facsimile or digitally.  Would anyone have the music
   of this particular song, or a link thereto?

   Apologies if this has been discussed before, and thanks in advance for
   any help.

   Best of wishes for the holiday season,

   Chris.

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
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