[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars
My attitude is to decide what makes most sense, musically and rhythmically speaking... They did not use, as we do now, first and second repeats. But an upbeat is always an upbeat and must be played accordingly with sometimes a good dose of diplomatic editing to make things fit properly ;-)! Best wishes to all! Jean-Marie > Le 6 janv. 2019 à 11:23, Joachim Lüdtke a écrit : > > Dear Ed > > the Minkoff facsimile comes with an introduction (in English as well as in > French) by Claude Chauvel. He cites and translates Galilei's adress to the > readers. No help with your question, though ... > > Uwe Wolf has written in his PhD thesis (published 1992) something to the > effect that the repeat sign would mean to leave out in the repeat what makes > the first measure of the first part complete, but then his example is music > where this first measure begins with pauses, not with notes as in the piece > in question here. Personally, I do more or less so: play the half note as a > quarter note, insert a 'breath' and go on with notes two and three of the > first measure. I am not aware of any contemporary instructions or > explanations which would be of help here, but that does not mean that there > aren't any ... > > Best > > Joachim > > -Original-Nachricht- > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars > Datum: 2019-01-05T12:28:00+0100 > Von: "Ed Durbrow" > An: "Matthew Daillie" , "lute list" > > > What you type more or less aligns with the way I interpret it, if I > understand you correctly. However, some well known players do not interpret > it so. For example, in the first C maj volt, they hold the half note at the > repeat mark bar for three beats and then start over. I and you, I think, > would hold it for two beats and insert the last beat of measure one on the > repeat. I was wondering if they know something we don’t, if Galilei mentions > anything (my original question), if (there must be) other examples of similar > structures and if any contemporary explains what to do. > > Again if anybody can point me to an English translation, it would be fun to > read even though there may not be any information on repeats. > >> On Dec 25, 2018, at 11:15 PM, Matthew Daillie >> wrote: >> >> From what I've seen it's pretty straightforward, you just need to replace >> the upbeat at the end of the bar with the repeat sign with the anacrusis of >> the first bar. Sometimes the note values of the anacrusis are not the same >> but this doesn't really matter as one is making a pause before starting the >> piece again from the beginning. The values of the last beat of the repeat >> bars work fine when playing straight through the second time round. >> Despite Galilei's claims to the contrary, there are a few printers mistakes >> too and there is doubtlessly an element of improvisation in the way the >> introductory anacruses should be played anyway (as perhaps indicated, for >> example, by the occasional long note values). >> Best, >> Matthew >> >> >> >>> On Dec 25, 2018, at 12:51, Joachim Lüdtke wrote: >>> >>> that is what I found in the introduction too, and still you have to cope >>> with the Situation Ed describes. I tend to your No 2, Ed! >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > >
[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars
Dear Ed the Minkoff facsimile comes with an introduction (in English as well as in French) by Claude Chauvel. He cites and translates Galilei's adress to the readers. No help with your question, though ... Uwe Wolf has written in his PhD thesis (published 1992) something to the effect that the repeat sign would mean to leave out in the repeat what makes the first measure of the first part complete, but then his example is music where this first measure begins with pauses, not with notes as in the piece in question here. Personally, I do more or less so: play the half note as a quarter note, insert a 'breath' and go on with notes two and three of the first measure. I am not aware of any contemporary instructions or explanations which would be of help here, but that does not mean that there aren't any ... Best Joachim -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars Datum: 2019-01-05T12:28:00+0100 Von: "Ed Durbrow" An: "Matthew Daillie" , "lute list" What you type more or less aligns with the way I interpret it, if I understand you correctly. However, some well known players do not interpret it so. For example, in the first C maj volt, they hold the half note at the repeat mark bar for three beats and then start over. I and you, I think, would hold it for two beats and insert the last beat of measure one on the repeat. I was wondering if they know something we don’t, if Galilei mentions anything (my original question), if (there must be) other examples of similar structures and if any contemporary explains what to do. Again if anybody can point me to an English translation, it would be fun to read even though there may not be any information on repeats. > On Dec 25, 2018, at 11:15 PM, Matthew Daillie > wrote: > > From what I've seen it's pretty straightforward, you just need to replace the > upbeat at the end of the bar with the repeat sign with the anacrusis of the > first bar. Sometimes the note values of the anacrusis are not the same but > this doesn't really matter as one is making a pause before starting the piece > again from the beginning. The values of the last beat of the repeat bars work > fine when playing straight through the second time round. > Despite Galilei's claims to the contrary, there are a few printers mistakes > too and there is doubtlessly an element of improvisation in the way the > introductory anacruses should be played anyway (as perhaps indicated, for > example, by the occasional long note values). > Best, > Matthew > > > >> On Dec 25, 2018, at 12:51, Joachim Lüdtke wrote: >> >> that is what I found in the introduction too, and still you have to cope >> with the Situation Ed describes. I tend to your No 2, Ed! > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars
What you type more or less aligns with the way I interpret it, if I understand you correctly. However, some well known players do not interpret it so. For example, in the first C maj volt, they hold the half note at the repeat mark bar for three beats and then start over. I and you, I think, would hold it for two beats and insert the last beat of measure one on the repeat. I was wondering if they know something we don’t, if Galilei mentions anything (my original question), if (there must be) other examples of similar structures and if any contemporary explains what to do. Again if anybody can point me to an English translation, it would be fun to read even though there may not be any information on repeats. > On Dec 25, 2018, at 11:15 PM, Matthew Daillie > wrote: > > From what I've seen it's pretty straightforward, you just need to replace the > upbeat at the end of the bar with the repeat sign with the anacrusis of the > first bar. Sometimes the note values of the anacrusis are not the same but > this doesn't really matter as one is making a pause before starting the piece > again from the beginning. The values of the last beat of the repeat bars work > fine when playing straight through the second time round. > Despite Galilei's claims to the contrary, there are a few printers mistakes > too and there is doubtlessly an element of improvisation in the way the > introductory anacruses should be played anyway (as perhaps indicated, for > example, by the occasional long note values). > Best, > Matthew > > > >> On Dec 25, 2018, at 12:51, Joachim Lüdtke wrote: >> >> that is what I found in the introduction too, and still you have to cope >> with the Situation Ed describes. I tend to your No 2, Ed! > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars
>From what I've seen it's pretty straightforward, you just need to replace the >upbeat at the end of the bar with the repeat sign with the anacrusis of the >first bar. Sometimes the note values of the anacrusis are not the same but >this doesn't really matter as one is making a pause before starting the piece >again from the beginning. The values of the last beat of the repeat bars work >fine when playing straight through the second time round. Despite Galilei's claims to the contrary, there are a few printers mistakes too and there is doubtlessly an element of improvisation in the way the introductory anacruses should be played anyway (as perhaps indicated, for example, by the occasional long note values). Best, Matthew > On Dec 25, 2018, at 12:51, Joachim Lüdtke wrote: > > that is what I found in the introduction too, and still you have to cope with > the Situation Ed describes. I tend to your No 2, Ed! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars
On Dec 25, 2018, at 8:41 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote: > The Minkoff facsimile provides an English translation. Here is an extract: > '... since my sonatas might offer some difficulty to... players not yet very > experienced in this art... these people must be satisfied with playing simply > the first and second part of the Correnti and Volte, which they may repeat > without the diminutions and this will not make the the sonata imperfect.' That is interesting. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars
On 25.12.2018 12:51, Joachim Lüdtke wrote: Dear Ed, dear Matthew, that is what I found in the introduction too, and still you have to cope with the Situation Ed describes. I tend to your No 2, Ed! Cheers, Joachim P.S.: I still have a number of copies of the Minkoff facsimile I anyone is interested This is an excellent edition. The music is really good - not exactly easy, though :) The preface - yes a preface in a Minkoff edition - is fabulous. There are even corrections to the music. The tablature is crystal clear. Possibly the best Minkoff facsimile of lute music. Rainer PS You definitely need an 10c instrument for Galilei's music. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars
Dear Ed, dear Matthew, that is what I found in the introduction too, and still you have to cope with the Situation Ed describes. I tend to your No 2, Ed! Cheers, Joachim P.S.: I still have a number of copies of the Minkoff facsimile I anyone is interested Lektorat & Korrektorat Dr. Joachim Lüdtke Blumenstraße 20 D-90762 Fürth Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20 Mail: jo.lued...@t-online.de www.lektorat-luedtke.de Mitglied im Verband der freien Lektorinnen und Lektoren www.vfll.de www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars Datum: 2018-12-25T12:42:07+0100 Von: "Matthew Daillie" An: "Ed Durbrow" The Minkoff facsimile provides an English translation. Here is an extract: '... since my sonatas might offer some difficulty to... players not yet very experienced in this art... these people must be satisfied with playing simply the first and second part of the Correnti and Volte, which they may repeat without the diminutions and this will not make the the sonata imperfect.' Best, Matthew > On Dec 25, 2018, at 2:41, Ed Durbrow wrote: > > It looks like Michelagnolo Galilei doesn’t give any instructions in his book, > but could an Italian speaker confirm that? Is there an English translation of > his dedication and author page anywhere? > What I’m interested in at the moment is whether he gives any guidance on how > to perform repeats. He has two kinds of repeat signs: the normal one that is > at the end of a full bar and one that is in the middle of a bar. Repeats > mostly occurs in voltas because most other pieces have written out style > brisé passages. > > Of the second kind, typically, the first section ends on a half note or > quarter note with a repeat sign under the remaining notes. There are two > possible interpretations. > 1. Hold the first beat of the last measure for three full beats then repeat > from the very beginning. > 2. Combine the last measure and the first making just one measure. > In the second interpretation, one assumes that on the repeat playing one > would start with the last quarter of the first measure after a half note in > the last measure. He is not always so straightforward though. For example > there might be a dotted quarter at the end of a section but three quarter > notes at the start. I wonder if he mentions anything in the Italian text. > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > See my latest video at: > http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch > https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > > > > > > > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch > https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars
The Minkoff facsimile provides an English translation. Here is an extract: '... since my sonatas might offer some difficulty to... players not yet very experienced in this art... these people must be satisfied with playing simply the first and second part of the Correnti and Volte, which they may repeat without the diminutions and this will not make the the sonata imperfect.' Best, Matthew > On Dec 25, 2018, at 2:41, Ed Durbrow wrote: > > It looks like Michelagnolo Galilei doesn’t give any instructions in his book, > but could an Italian speaker confirm that? Is there an English translation of > his dedication and author page anywhere? > What I’m interested in at the moment is whether he gives any guidance on how > to perform repeats. He has two kinds of repeat signs: the normal one that is > at the end of a full bar and one that is in the middle of a bar. Repeats > mostly occurs in voltas because most other pieces have written out style > brisé passages. > > Of the second kind, typically, the first section ends on a half note or > quarter note with a repeat sign under the remaining notes. There are two > possible interpretations. > 1. Hold the first beat of the last measure for three full beats then repeat > from the very beginning. > 2. Combine the last measure and the first making just one measure. > In the second interpretation, one assumes that on the repeat playing one > would start with the last quarter of the first measure after a half note in > the last measure. He is not always so straightforward though. For example > there might be a dotted quarter at the end of a section but three quarter > notes at the start. I wonder if he mentions anything in the Italian text. > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > See my latest video at: > http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch > https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > > > > > > > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch > https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
