[LUTE] Re: Piccinini in English

[Rainer]

On 09.04.2018 14:28, spiffys84121 wrote:

Yes my French is lower in the ocean than my Italian. I may have that
journal buried somewhere, but I suspect not.


As I said, I can send a scan. Let me know if you need it.

Sent from a real computer

Rainer



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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini in English

[spiffys84121]

   Yes my French is lower in the ocean than my Italian. I may have that
   journal buried somewhere, but I suspect not.

   Merci!

   Sterling

   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

    Original message 
   From: Rainer <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
   Date: 4/9/18 6:11 AM (GMT-07:00)
   To: lutelist Net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Piccinini in English

   Erm - do you speak French?
   I have a translation to French.
   Rainer
   PS
   There is a translation to English in the LSA Journal 1996 by Stan
   Buetens.
   Of course, I can send it.
   I assume your English is better than your French :)
   On 09.04.2018 13:32, spiffys84121 wrote:
   > Could some dear person point me in the direction of an English
   > translation of the first part of Piccinini's 1623 book? Ya, my
   Italian
   > is rusty-er than a sunken ocean liner.
   >
   > Thanks!
   >
   > Sterling
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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini in English

[Rainer]

Erm - do you speak French?

I have a translation to French.

Rainer

PS

There is a translation to English in the LSA Journal 1996 by Stan Buetens.

Of course, I can send it.

I assume your English is better than your French :)

On 09.04.2018 13:32, spiffys84121 wrote:

Could some dear person point me in the direction of an English
translation of the first part of Piccinini's 1623 book? Ya, my Italian
is rusty-er than a sunken ocean liner.

Thanks!

Sterling




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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[Konstantin Shchenikov]

Though Piccinini describes 13 course lute in his 1623 preface, I know
at least two pieces, asking just for 7 cources. Corrente V (1st book)
and famous Passacaglia (2nd book). May be there is another examples,
but haven't played all Piccinini pieces through.

2015-09-01 22:11 GMT+04:00 Konstantin Shchenikov :
> Though Piccinini describes 13 course lute in his 1623 preface, I know at
> least two pieces, asking just for 7 cources. Corrente V (1st book) and
> famous Passacaglia (2nd book). May be there is another examples, but haven't
> played all Piccinini pieces through.



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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[jean-michel Catherinot]

   ...and Kapsberger an exact contemporary of Ennemond Gautier
   Le Mercredi 2 septembre 2015 9h16, Martin Shepherd
   <mar...@luteshop.co.uk> a A(c)crit :
   Yes - the same is true of Kapsberger, some pieces require fewer
   courses.  I
   suppose these collections of pieces were often made over a period of
   time,
   and by the time they were published some of them were, as Dowland says
   of
   the songs in his first book, "ripe enough by their age".
   If I remember correctly Piccinini's trio requires only 7 courses on all
   the
   lutes, and presumably dates from when he was playing with his brothers
   in
   the 1580s.  He was an old man by the time his book was published in
   1623.
   Strange to think he was an exact contemporary of Dowland.
   Martin
   - Original Message -
   From: "Konstantin Shchenikov" <[1]konstantin.n...@gmail.com>
   To: "lute list" <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 8:38 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Piccinini
   > Though Piccinini describes 13 course lute in his 1623 preface, I know
   > at least two pieces, asking just for 7 cources. Corrente V (1st book)
   > and famous Passacaglia (2nd book). May be there is another examples,
   > but haven't played all Piccinini pieces through.
   >
   > 2015-09-01 22:11 GMT+04:00 Konstantin Shchenikov
   > <[3]konstantin.n...@gmail.com>:
   >> Though Piccinini describes 13 course lute in his 1623 preface, I
   know at
   >> least two pieces, asking just for 7 cources. Corrente V (1st book)
   and
   >> famous Passacaglia (2nd book). May be there is another examples, but
   >> haven't
   >> played all Piccinini pieces through.
   >
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >
   ---
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   [5]https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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References

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   5. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[Andreas Schlegel]

Old lutes are most usually a puzzle of parts of different times. Exactly the 
same, if you have a close look on the books of Piccinnini and Kapsberger: They 
published pieces for different instruments (perhaps, but not certainly written 
in different times) for people with different instruments at home. 
We can see that "old" types like the 11-course Baroque lute were in use for a 
long time after the invention/development of a new type - here the 13-course 
Baroque lute (f.ex. Kellner's print for 11-course lute in 1747). Why not the 
same game in the beginning of the 17th century? 
The 11-course tiorba is used in 109 pieces by Kapsberger - and 71 pieces 
require only 10 course, 6 9 courses, 3 8 courses, 8 7 courses and 1 6 courses 
[!] - so totally 199 of 237 tiorba pieces by Kapsberger are written for an 
instrument with 11-courses. Who has such an instrument at home? Does it existed 
in the 17th century or had they from the very first moment of the development 
the final 14-course - excuse: 19-course - tiorba at home (Kapsberger published 
10 pieces for 19-course tiorba in 1612, 1626 and 1640 editions)? 
In the beginning of the 17th century the individual construction of lute types 
arised - after the uniform construction before and the "Füssen Kartell" (see 
the studies of Klaus Martius & Josef Focht). 
Have a look on all the pictures of that time and you will find our nowadays 
"standard" types - but also a big number of instruments with more individual 
features.

Andreas

Am 02.09.2015 um 09:13 schrieb Martin Shepherd <mar...@luteshop.co.uk>:

> Yes - the same is true of Kapsberger, some pieces require fewer courses.  I 
> suppose these collections of pieces were often made over a period of time, 
> and by the time they were published some of them were, as Dowland says of the 
> songs in his first book, "ripe enough by their age".
> 
> If I remember correctly Piccinini's trio requires only 7 courses on all the 
> lutes, and presumably dates from when he was playing with his brothers in the 
> 1580s.  He was an old man by the time his book was published in 1623. Strange 
> to think he was an exact contemporary of Dowland.
> 
> Martin
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Konstantin Shchenikov" 
> <konstantin.n...@gmail.com>
> To: "lute list" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 8:38 AM
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Piccinini
> 
> 
>> Though Piccinini describes 13 course lute in his 1623 preface, I know
>> at least two pieces, asking just for 7 cources. Corrente V (1st book)
>> and famous Passacaglia (2nd book). May be there is another examples,
>> but haven't played all Piccinini pieces through.
>> 
>> 2015-09-01 22:11 GMT+04:00 Konstantin Shchenikov <konstantin.n...@gmail.com>:
>>> Though Piccinini describes 13 course lute in his 1623 preface, I know at
>>> least two pieces, asking just for 7 cources. Corrente V (1st book) and
>>> famous Passacaglia (2nd book). May be there is another examples, but haven't
>>> played all Piccinini pieces through.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 

Andreas Schlegel
Eckstr. 6
CH-5737 Menziken
+41 (0)62 771 47 07
lute.cor...@sunrise.ch




--

[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[Martin Shepherd]

Yes - the same is true of Kapsberger, some pieces require fewer courses.  I 
suppose these collections of pieces were often made over a period of time, 
and by the time they were published some of them were, as Dowland says of 
the songs in his first book, "ripe enough by their age".


If I remember correctly Piccinini's trio requires only 7 courses on all the 
lutes, and presumably dates from when he was playing with his brothers in 
the 1580s.  He was an old man by the time his book was published in 1623. 
Strange to think he was an exact contemporary of Dowland.


Martin

- Original Message - 
From: "Konstantin Shchenikov" <konstantin.n...@gmail.com>

To: "lute list" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 8:38 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Piccinini



Though Piccinini describes 13 course lute in his 1623 preface, I know
at least two pieces, asking just for 7 cources. Corrente V (1st book)
and famous Passacaglia (2nd book). May be there is another examples,
but haven't played all Piccinini pieces through.

2015-09-01 22:11 GMT+04:00 Konstantin Shchenikov 
<konstantin.n...@gmail.com>:

Though Piccinini describes 13 course lute in his 1623 preface, I know at
least two pieces, asking just for 7 cources. Corrente V (1st book) and
famous Passacaglia (2nd book). May be there is another examples, but 
haven't

played all Piccinini pieces through.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html




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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[Dan Winheld]

Wish I had one:

http://www.luteshop.co.uk/Liuto_Attiorbato.html

For now, I make do with "1/2" Liuto- singles all the way. It works; it 
sounds great, and my string expense & tuning problems are 1/2 of the 
real thing. Still want the real thing, but it ain't happening in this 
lifetime.


Dan

On 8/31/2015 3:24 PM, sterling price wrote:

Hi--and this brings up a desire of mine to hear more players use a true
liuto attiorbato--that is with octave strings on all the basses. I find
the liuto attiorbato much more satisfying than the archlute with single
basses. And what is really annoying--an attiorbato with single strings.
I have two rather small liuto attiorbatos (fingerboard sl at 57cm).My
dream is to have one set up as follows-- 64/100cm.
Sterling
  __

From: Bruno Figueiredo <bruno.l...@gmail.com>
To: Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 3:55 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Piccinini
  Hi Monica, both books are for the same instrument, which is a liuto
  attiorbato. The author tells in the preface of the 1623 edition the
  number of courses intended and the tunning. There is also some tips
  about technique for both the lute and the chitarrone. The second book
  is posthumous, lots of printing errors but the same instrument
  intended. You don't need to check piece by piece!
  2015-08-31 13:24 GMT-03:00 Monica Hall <[1][1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>:
There are two books of music by Piccinini, Intavolatura di
liuto
et di
chitarrone (1623) and Intavolatura di liuto (1639).Is there
any
difference between the instruments intended for the pieces in
each
book.Are some of them for just a 6-course instrument and
others for
an instrument with extra bass strings or are all of them for
the
latter.How can one tell the difference without going
through
every
pieces looking for extra figures above the stave?
Monica
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
[2][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  --
  Bruno Figueiredo
  Pesquisador autA'nomo da prA!tica e interpretaAS:A-L-o
  historicamente informada no alaA-ode e teorba.
  Doutor em PrA!ticas Interpretativas  pela
  Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.
  --
References
  1. mailto:[3]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
  2. [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[Bruno Figueiredo]

   Hi Monica, both books are for the same instrument, which is a liuto
   attiorbato. The author tells in the preface of the 1623 edition the
   number of courses intended and the tunning. There is also some tips
   about technique for both the lute and the chitarrone. The second book
   is posthumous, lots of printing errors but the same instrument
   intended. You don't need to check piece by piece!

   2015-08-31 13:24 GMT-03:00 Monica Hall <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>:

There are two books of music by Piccinini, Intavolatura di liuto
 et di
chitarrone (1623) and Intavolatura di liuto (1639).Is there
 any
difference between the instruments intended for the pieces in
 each
book.Are some of them for just a 6-course instrument and
 others for
an instrument with extra bass strings or are all of them for the
latter.How can one tell the difference without going through
 every
pieces looking for extra figures above the stave?
Monica
--
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --
   Bruno Figueiredo

   Pesquisador autA'nomo da prA!tica e interpretaAS:A-L-o
   historicamente informada no alaA-ode e teorba.
   Doutor em PrA!ticas Interpretativas  pela
   Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.

   --

References

   1. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[sterling price]

   Hi--and this brings up a desire of mine to hear more players use a true
   liuto attiorbato--that is with octave strings on all the basses. I find
   the liuto attiorbato much more satisfying than the archlute with single
   basses. And what is really annoying--an attiorbato with single strings.
   I have two rather small liuto attiorbatos (fingerboard sl at 57cm).My
   dream is to have one set up as follows-- 64/100cm.
   Sterling
 __

   From: Bruno Figueiredo <bruno.l...@gmail.com>
   To: Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 3:55 PM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Piccinini
 Hi Monica, both books are for the same instrument, which is a liuto
 attiorbato. The author tells in the preface of the 1623 edition the
 number of courses intended and the tunning. There is also some tips
 about technique for both the lute and the chitarrone. The second book
 is posthumous, lots of printing errors but the same instrument
 intended. You don't need to check piece by piece!
 2015-08-31 13:24 GMT-03:00 Monica Hall <[1][1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>:
   There are two books of music by Piccinini, Intavolatura di
   liuto
   et di
   chitarrone (1623) and Intavolatura di liuto (1639).Is there
   any
   difference between the instruments intended for the pieces in
   each
   book.Are some of them for just a 6-course instrument and
   others for
   an instrument with extra bass strings or are all of them for
   the
   latter.How can one tell the difference without going
   through
   every
   pieces looking for extra figures above the stave?
   Monica
   --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
 Bruno Figueiredo
 Pesquisador autA'nomo da prA!tica e interpretaAS:A-L-o
 historicamente informada no alaA-ode e teorba.
 Doutor em PrA!ticas Interpretativas  pela
 Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.
 --
   References
 1. mailto:[3]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
 2. [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Piccinini-thumb-index

[Susanne Herre]

Thank you.

You are right about questions : )



- Original Message - 
From: Lex van Sante lvansa...@gmail.com

To: lute mailing list list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 10:41 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Piccinini-thumb-index



Hi Susanne,

Questions make us tick, answers are usually boring, aren't they?

You're right about Piccinini.

He was a follower of the then fashionable TO technique.
Dowland, Laurencini, Howett and others seem to have used  TO , although 
Dowland is said to have started his career using TI..

At least, that is what Stobeaus wants us to believe.
1. Von der Rechten Handt.

Die Rechte Hand soll kurtz für dem Stege gehalten u. d. kleine finger 
steif aufgesetzet u. gehalten werden. D. daume soll starck ausgestrecket 
werden, das er fast ein glied den andern fingern vorgehe. Es sollen auch 
die finger einwertz unter den daumen fein zu sich gezogen werden, dz der 
_resonans_ fein starck klinge.
Der daume soll auswertz nit einwertz, geschlagen werden, wie die Alten zu 
thun pflegen, u. gemeinlich die Niederländer und Alte Teutschen. Denn es 
_probiret_ worden, das es weit besser den daumen auswertz zuschlagen, 
klinget reiner scherffer u. heller, dz ander klinget gar faull u. 
dümpffig.


Auswertz gebrauchen den daumen diese Berümbte Lautenisten, _In Germania: 
Gregorius Ruwet [Huwet], d. Dulandus Anglus,_ welcher doch anfänglich 
einwendig den daumen gebraucht. _In Italia:_ Zu Rohm _Laurentinus,_ zu 
_Padua Hortensius._ _In Gallia_ Borquet , Mercurius Polandus_ u. andere 
mehr.


Wenn volle griffe zuschlagen, gebraucht man alle 4 finger.

Wenn _Coloraturen,_ bisweilen mit dem daumen und Zeiger, bisweilen d. 
Zeiger u. mittelste finger wie drunten bey den _Coloraturen_ soll gedacht 
werden.


--From Donna May Arnold, The Lute Music and Related Writing in the 
Stammbuch of Johann Stobaeus, Ph.D. diss., No. Texas State University, 
1982, pp. 102-3.


She provides only a summary, no translation. I don't think the 
instructions should be attr. to Stobaeus. He may simply have acquired an 
already completed book (his name is squeezed onto one page), or had a 
teacher or someone write them into his Stammbuch (a S'buch is a kind of 
autograph book, or commonplace book). They seem to be related to Besard's 
instructions. The S'buch also has another set of instructions in the older 
style of Waissel.


ajn (boston).

here is a translation by Stewart McCoy, June, 2001
[amendment by Markus Lutz]

1. On the Right Hand.

The right hand is to be held close to the bridge, and the little finger 
firmly placed and held down. The thumb is to be stretched out strongly, so 
that it stands out almost as a limb [so that it stands out one knuckle] to 
the other fingers. The fingers are to be pulled cleanly inwards under the 
thumb, so that the sound resonates cleanly and strongly. The thumb is to 
be struck outwards, not inwards like the people in the past used to do, 
and commonly the Dutch and old Germans. For it has been proved that it is 
far better to strike the thumb outwards, it sounds purer, sharper, and 
brighter, the other sounds quite rotten and muffled. These famous 
lutenists used the thumb outside: In Germany: Gregorius Ruwet [=Huwet], 
Dowland the Englishman, who at first used his thumb the other way. In 
Italy: in Rome Laurencini, in Padua Hortensius. In France Bocquet, Mercure 
the Pole, and many more. If you strike full chords, you use all four 
fingers [=three fingers + thumb]; for divisions, [p!
lay] sometimes with the thumb and index finger, sometimes with the index 
and middle finger, see below under Divisions.


Nowadays most players stick to one technique, usually TI.
Nigel North is a notable exception (not anchoring his pinky on the belly 
BTW).

Fact is we play a much wider ranging repertoire than the players of old.
I've tried to use both techniques but this has proven to be not very 
practical. So I stick to TI.


Cheers,
Lex

Op 15 mei 2010, om 20:25 heeft Susanne Herre het volgende geschreven:


  Piccinini



  Cap. X



  Per far questi Gruppi, e tirate col Police  Indice come
  ordinariamente s'usa, si deve tenere il Police molto in fuori e
  l'indice molto sotto, come una croce...





  Do I understand right that he doesn't mean thumb-in here but
  thumb-out...?



  The thumb should be outward and the index below it...?



  Sorry for many questions...



  Kind regards,



  Susanne

  --


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--

[LUTE] Re: Piccinini-thumb-index

[Lex van Sante]

Hi Susanne,

Questions make us tick, answers are usually boring, aren't they?

You're right about Piccinini.

He was a follower of the then fashionable TO technique. 
Dowland, Laurencini, Howett and others seem to have used  TO , although Dowland 
is said to have started his career using TI..
At least, that is what Stobeaus wants us to believe.
1. Von der Rechten Handt.

Die Rechte Hand soll kurtz für dem Stege gehalten u. d. kleine finger steif 
aufgesetzet u. gehalten werden. D. daume soll starck ausgestrecket werden, das 
er fast ein glied den andern fingern vorgehe. Es sollen auch die finger 
einwertz unter den daumen fein zu sich gezogen werden, dz der _resonans_ fein 
starck klinge.
Der daume soll auswertz nit einwertz, geschlagen werden, wie die Alten zu thun 
pflegen, u. gemeinlich die Niederländer und Alte Teutschen. Denn es _probiret_ 
worden, das es weit besser den daumen auswertz zuschlagen, klinget reiner 
scherffer u. heller, dz ander klinget gar faull u. dümpffig.

Auswertz gebrauchen den daumen diese Berümbte Lautenisten, _In Germania: 
Gregorius Ruwet [Huwet], d. Dulandus Anglus,_ welcher doch anfänglich einwendig 
den daumen gebraucht. _In Italia:_ Zu Rohm _Laurentinus,_ zu _Padua 
Hortensius._ _In Gallia_ Borquet , Mercurius Polandus_ u. andere mehr.

Wenn volle griffe zuschlagen, gebraucht man alle 4 finger.

Wenn _Coloraturen,_ bisweilen mit dem daumen und Zeiger, bisweilen d. Zeiger 
u. mittelste finger wie drunten bey den _Coloraturen_ soll gedacht werden.

--From Donna May Arnold, The Lute Music and Related Writing in the Stammbuch 
of Johann Stobaeus, Ph.D. diss., No. Texas State University, 1982, pp. 102-3.

She provides only a summary, no translation. I don't think the instructions 
should be attr. to Stobaeus. He may simply have acquired an already completed 
book (his name is squeezed onto one page), or had a teacher or someone write 
them into his Stammbuch (a S'buch is a kind of autograph book, or commonplace 
book). They seem to be related to Besard's instructions. The S'buch also has 
another set of instructions in the older style of Waissel.

ajn (boston).

here is a translation by Stewart McCoy, June, 2001
[amendment by Markus Lutz]

1. On the Right Hand.

The right hand is to be held close to the bridge, and the little finger firmly 
placed and held down. The thumb is to be stretched out strongly, so that it 
stands out almost as a limb [so that it stands out one knuckle] to the other 
fingers. The fingers are to be pulled cleanly inwards under the thumb, so that 
the sound resonates cleanly and strongly. The thumb is to be struck outwards, 
not inwards like the people in the past used to do, and commonly the Dutch and 
old Germans. For it has been proved that it is far better to strike the thumb 
outwards, it sounds purer, sharper, and brighter, the other sounds quite rotten 
and muffled. These famous lutenists used the thumb outside: In Germany: 
Gregorius Ruwet [=Huwet], Dowland the Englishman, who at first used his thumb 
the other way. In Italy: in Rome Laurencini, in Padua Hortensius. In France 
Bocquet, Mercure the Pole, and many more. If you strike full chords, you use 
all four fingers [=three fingers + thumb]; for divisions, [p!
 lay] sometimes with the thumb and index finger, sometimes with the index and 
middle finger, see below under Divisions.

Nowadays most players stick to one technique, usually TI. 
Nigel North is a notable exception (not anchoring his pinky on the belly BTW).
Fact is we play a much wider ranging repertoire than the players of old. 
I've tried to use both techniques but this has proven to be not very practical. 
So I stick to TI. 

Cheers,
Lex

Op 15 mei 2010, om 20:25 heeft Susanne Herre het volgende geschreven:

   Piccinini
 
 
 
   Cap. X
 
 
 
   Per far questi Gruppi, e tirate col Police  Indice come
   ordinariamente s'usa, si deve tenere il Police molto in fuori e
   l'indice molto sotto, come una croce...
 
 
 
 
 
   Do I understand right that he doesn't mean thumb-in here but
   thumb-out...?
 
 
 
   The thumb should be outward and the index below it...?
 
 
 
   Sorry for many questions...
 
 
 
   Kind regards,
 
 
 
   Susanne
 
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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini-thumb-index

[Edward Mast]

I think for most musical instruments playing techniques have evolved in 
directions away from rigidness and constrictions.Casals comes to mind in 
the way he moved towards more freedom of arm movement in cello playing.  No 
doubt placing the little finger close to the bridge and firmly keeping it there 
seemed helpful to some lute players at the time.  But better, I think, to take 
this as a description of a playing technique rather than as a prescription.  
Techniques of playing the instrument are still evolving as new players come to 
the instrument with new ideas and musical concepts.

Ned
On May 16, 2010, at 4:41 AM, Lex van Sante wrote:

 Hi Susanne,
 
 Questions make us tick, answers are usually boring, aren't they?
 
 You're right about Piccinini.
 
 He was a follower of the then fashionable TO technique. 
 Dowland, Laurencini, Howett and others seem to have used  TO , although 
 Dowland is said to have started his career using TI..
 At least, that is what Stobeaus wants us to believe.
 1. Von der Rechten Handt.
 
 Die Rechte Hand soll kurtz für dem Stege gehalten u. d. kleine finger steif 
 aufgesetzet u. gehalten werden. D. daume soll starck ausgestrecket werden, 
 das er fast ein glied den andern fingern vorgehe. Es sollen auch die finger 
 einwertz unter den daumen fein zu sich gezogen werden, dz der _resonans_ fein 
 starck klinge.
 Der daume soll auswertz nit einwertz, geschlagen werden, wie die Alten zu 
 thun pflegen, u. gemeinlich die Niederländer und Alte Teutschen. Denn es 
 _probiret_ worden, das es weit besser den daumen auswertz zuschlagen, klinget 
 reiner scherffer u. heller, dz ander klinget gar faull u. dümpffig.
 
 Auswertz gebrauchen den daumen diese Berümbte Lautenisten, _In Germania: 
 Gregorius Ruwet [Huwet], d. Dulandus Anglus,_ welcher doch anfänglich 
 einwendig den daumen gebraucht. _In Italia:_ Zu Rohm _Laurentinus,_ zu _Padua 
 Hortensius._ _In Gallia_ Borquet , Mercurius Polandus_ u. andere mehr.
 
 Wenn volle griffe zuschlagen, gebraucht man alle 4 finger.
 
 Wenn _Coloraturen,_ bisweilen mit dem daumen und Zeiger, bisweilen d. Zeiger 
 u. mittelste finger wie drunten bey den _Coloraturen_ soll gedacht werden.
 
 --From Donna May Arnold, The Lute Music and Related Writing in the Stammbuch 
 of Johann Stobaeus, Ph.D. diss., No. Texas State University, 1982, pp. 102-3.
 
 She provides only a summary, no translation. I don't think the instructions 
 should be attr. to Stobaeus. He may simply have acquired an already completed 
 book (his name is squeezed onto one page), or had a teacher or someone write 
 them into his Stammbuch (a S'buch is a kind of autograph book, or commonplace 
 book). They seem to be related to Besard's instructions. The S'buch also has 
 another set of instructions in the older style of Waissel.
 
 ajn (boston).
 
 here is a translation by Stewart McCoy, June, 2001
 [amendment by Markus Lutz]
 
 1. On the Right Hand.
 
 The right hand is to be held close to the bridge, and the little finger 
 firmly placed and held down. The thumb is to be stretched out strongly, so 
 that it stands out almost as a limb [so that it stands out one knuckle] to 
 the other fingers. The fingers are to be pulled cleanly inwards under the 
 thumb, so that the sound resonates cleanly and strongly. The thumb is to be 
 struck outwards, not inwards like the people in the past used to do, and 
 commonly the Dutch and old Germans. For it has been proved that it is far 
 better to strike the thumb outwards, it sounds purer, sharper, and brighter, 
 the other sounds quite rotten and muffled. These famous lutenists used the 
 thumb outside: In Germany: Gregorius Ruwet [=Huwet], Dowland the Englishman, 
 who at first used his thumb the other way. In Italy: in Rome Laurencini, in 
 Padua Hortensius. In France Bocquet, Mercure the Pole, and many more. If you 
 strike full chords, you use all four fingers [=three fingers + thumb]; for 
 divisions, [p!
 lay] sometimes with the thumb and index finger, sometimes with the index and 
 middle finger, see below under Divisions.
 
 Nowadays most players stick to one technique, usually TI. 
 Nigel North is a notable exception (not anchoring his pinky on the belly BTW).
 Fact is we play a much wider ranging repertoire than the players of old. 
 I've tried to use both techniques but this has proven to be not very 
 practical. So I stick to TI. 
 
 Cheers,
 Lex
 
 Op 15 mei 2010, om 20:25 heeft Susanne Herre het volgende geschreven:
 
  Piccinini
 
 
 
  Cap. X
 
 
 
  Per far questi Gruppi, e tirate col Police  Indice come
  ordinariamente s'usa, si deve tenere il Police molto in fuori e
  l'indice molto sotto, come una croce...
 
 
 
 
 
  Do I understand right that he doesn't mean thumb-in here but
  thumb-out...?
 
 
 
  The thumb should be outward and the index below it...?
 
 
 
  Sorry for many questions...
 
 
 
  Kind regards,
 
 
 
  Susanne
 
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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[Peter Nightingale]

Roman,

It's here:
http://www.gerbode.net/ft2/composers/Piccinini/book_2_1639/pdf/passacaglia.pdf
http://www.gerbode.net/ft2/composers/Piccinini/book_2_1639/pdf/passacaglia.pdf

Also check out the ancestral directories for other formats.

Best regards,
Peter.

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010, Roman Turovsky wrote:

 Would a kind soul have the Passacaglia  in some e-format?
 Thanks!
 RT





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the next auto-quote is:
Religion has ever been anti-human, anti-woman, anti-life, anti-peace,
anti-reason and anti-science. The god idea has been detrimental not only
to humankind but to the earth. It is time now for reason, education and
science to take over.
(Madalyn Murray O'Hair)
/\/\
Peter Nightingale  Telephone (401) 874-5882
Department of Physics, East Hall   Fax (401) 874-2380
University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881

[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[Eric Crouch]

There's a German grand staff edition entitled Alessandro Piccinini,  
Das Lautenwerk von 1623 prepared by Denise Perret, Ricardo Correa and  
Monique Chatton that has both a German and an English translation of  
Piccinini's introduction. The publisher is Heinrichshofen's Verlag,  
Wilhelmshaven (N 1861).

Eric Crouch
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On 18 Jun 2008, at 21:09, Peter Nightingale wrote:


Dear All,

Does anyone have or know where I can find a translation of the
introduction to Alessandro Piccinini's Intavolatvra ... Libro Primo?

Peter.

the next auto-quote is:
The human mind evolved to believe in the gods.
It did not evolve to believe in biology.
(Edward O. Wilson)
/\/\
Peter Nightingale  Telephone (401) 874-5882
Department of Physics, East Hall   Fax (401) 874-2380
University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881



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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[Peter Nightingale]

Eric,

Thanks for the information.

I just heard that Stanley Buetens wrote an article in American Lute 
Journal #2 that has a complete translation of all text throughout the 
volume.

Peter.

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008, Eric Crouch wrote:

 There's a German grand staff edition entitled Alessandro Piccinini, Das 
 Lautenwerk von 1623 prepared by Denise Perret, Ricardo Correa and Monique 
 Chatton that has both a German and an English translation of Piccinini's 
 introduction. The publisher is Heinrichshofen's Verlag, Wilhelmshaven (N 
 1861).
 Eric Crouch
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 On 18 Jun 2008, at 21:09, Peter Nightingale wrote:

 Dear All,
 
 Does anyone have or know where I can find a translation of the
 introduction to Alessandro Piccinini's Intavolatvra ... Libro Primo?
 
 Peter.
 
 the next auto-quote is:
 The human mind evolved to believe in the gods.
 It did not evolve to believe in biology.
 (Edward O. Wilson)
 /\/\
 Peter Nightingale  Telephone (401) 874-5882
 Department of Physics, East Hall   Fax (401) 874-2380
 University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

the next auto-quote is:
And blood in torrents pour
In vain -- always in vain,
For war breeds war again!
(John Davidson)
/\/\
Peter Nightingale  Telephone (401) 874-5882
Department of Physics, East Hall   Fax (401) 874-2380
University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881

[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[G. Crona]

PDF, 63 Kb, only in French!

http://tinyurl.com/4wk5vg

- Original Message - 
From: Peter Nightingale 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:09 PM

Subject: [LUTE] Piccinini



Dear All,

Does anyone have or know where I can find a translation of the 
introduction to Alessandro Piccinini's Intavolatvra ... Libro Primo?


Peter.




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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini Questions

[David Tayler]

Can't afford a lautenwerk :)
No room eitherhad one for a while and it was really in the way.
Also tuning was very strange. You really have to tune from the middle 
out in both directions because it goes out of tune before you reach the end.

I think a a baroque lute, D mi theorbo, gallichon (or whatever)
and an archlute with eight on the table cover a lot of Bach, not all 
of it, but a lot of pieces.
I really like 8 courses fretted for both continuo and just a small 
selction of solo pieces.
Rather than purchase a quarrel or archlutes, I've opted for the 
multiple tunings/restringing.
There's just a few pieces I really prefer on the archlute, and since 
Bach is to my mind almost all arrangements, it is also a bit different than
a lute composer. Some might say that Bach is not arrangements, but 
the arrangement view is certainly tenable.
I have to say that as far as continuo and recording goes, the pairing 
of the lute with the keyboard, e.g., a low wind pressure style german 
organ with
split stops and two separate eights, is as important, or more 
important, than the precise disposition of the lute. And since the 
organ sound is more fundamental, I tend to choose
instruments that blend with the tuning and sound of that 
instrument.Most of what I do is double continuo.

Of course we all know Bach was a piano salesman, but we have to use 
that info wisely.
dt


At 05:43 AM 12/26/2007, you wrote:
At 03:28 PM 12/23/2007, David Tayler wrote:
When getting an archlute, get one that can be either double or single
strung, and have different divisions, e.g. 6+8, 7+7
8+6, etc. 8+6 is great for Bach (low F and F sharp; C and C sharp).
6+8 great for earlier repertory.
More holes; less poles.

After so much concern given to matching the exact instrument and 
configuration favored by a composer (namely Piccinini), I'm a little 
surprised by the recommendation of any lute-like thingy, especially 
an archlute, for playing Bach.

Best,
Eugene



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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini Questions

[Eugene C. Braig IV]

At 03:28 PM 12/23/2007, David Tayler wrote:
When getting an archlute, get one that can be either double or single
strung, and have different divisions, e.g. 6+8, 7+7
8+6, etc. 8+6 is great for Bach (low F and F sharp; C and C sharp).
6+8 great for earlier repertory.
More holes; less poles.

After so much concern given to matching the exact instrument and 
configuration favored by a composer (namely Piccinini), I'm a little 
surprised by the recommendation of any lute-like thingy, especially an 
archlute, for playing Bach.

Best,
Eugene 



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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini question + nails

[Anthony Hind]

Martyn, Eugene,
	This latest  Piccinini remark, reminds me of an earlier topic,  
Theorbo + Nails. While looking for Piccinini texts for Jim Abraham, I  
found the introduction to his lute tablatures, translated into French.


It looks very much  like Piccinini's instruction for the use of nails  
on the first three fingers, is similar to what you are describing,  
Martyn, below, about Weiss, albeit, at a much earlier date. Although,  
the text is open to interpretation, I think. The instructions seem to  
be for liuto , et di chitarrone, without distinction. I won't  
translate, I think the text is quite easy to follow:


Les trois autres doigts – index, majeur,
annulaire- qui doivent avoir assurément des
ongles assez long pour qu’ils dépassent la
pulpe mais pas plus, et taillés en ovale c’est-àdire
plus longs en leur milieu, doivent
s’utiliser ainsi : lorsqu’on jouera un accord,
ou lorsqu’on pincera une seule corde, on
jouera avec l’extrémité charnue du doigt, en la
dirigeant vers la table avec, on fera en sorte
que l’ongle laisse échapper les deux cordes en
même temps, lesquelles résonnant ensemble,
produiront une très belle harmonie.  (1623)
Traductions et notes par : Joël Dugot et Marco Horvat

luthlibrairie.free.fr/?download=Piccinini-instructions.pdf

I apologize if this has often been mentioned, and I did not notice it.
Regards
Anthony


Le 12 déc. 07 à 14:55, Martyn Hodgson a écrit :



  From what Weiss writes (and thanks for the quote Mathias - is it  
complete?), I infer that he's saying he is obliged to use nails on  
the theorbo to produce the volume/edge required but, because he  
doesn't mention doing so on the lute, he didn't on the lute.   
Incidentally.  I suspect (again pure speculation of course) that  
he's not saying his theorbo nails were like those found with, say,   
modern flameco players (or Dalla Casa's), but that there was  
sufficient to provide solid support to the very tip of the finger.   
In practice if I'm doing a concert with large band and/or many  
voices, I find a week's growth can give sufficient slight extra  
length to provide such support - but I also find I need a few days  
to adjust and thus try and avoid theorbo and lute in such concerts  
(but the guitar's OK).


  MH

Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Whether Stephen Stubbs or anyone else gets a good sound with  
nails on a
baroque lute is neither here nor there. The question is whether  
Weiss used

nails, and I maintain that the comments he made are inconclusive.

Rob

www.rmguitar.info


-Original Message-
From: Mathias Rösel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 12 December 2007 11:57
To: 'lute list'
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Swanneck + loaded strings

Rob schrieb:

Mathias, I don't think we can definitely conclude from his statement


no, of course, not def.


that
Weiss himself used nails. He might have implied it was common  
practice,

but

he doesn't say for sure that he used nails.


As for the theorbo that is probable, though, IMHO. He says it's
ordinairement played that way, but doesn't remark but I refrain from
that horrible abuse or the like.


Certainly he was employed as a
continuo player,


And he was known so as a marvelous accompagnist


but clearly was also regarded as a special case,


Regarding the theorbo, I'm not aware of another specialty besides his
being fabulous. No mentioning of no-nails.


one whose
solo playing was highly valued as well. If he describes nail  
playing as

'rude',


He doesn't. The quote bears on the sound of the theorbo as resulting
from ordinarily using nails. He says if you come close the sound is
coarse and rude because it's ordinairement played with nails. That is
easily imaginable, I should add. Theorbo players in an orchestra who
aren't heard will soon loose their posts.


I doubt if he would have enjoyed playing the lute so much.


You can use nails even on a baroque lute. To name just one player who
keeps long nails because his main business is continuo playing in
ensembles and orchestras but who nevertheless made very good solo
recordings (Kellner, Saint Luc, Golden Age etc) is Stephen Stubbs.
--
Mathias



-Original Message-
From: Mathias Rösel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 12 December 2007 11:09
To: Martyn Hodgson
Cc: LGS-Europe; lute list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Swanneck + loaded strings

Martyn Hodgson schrieb:
Weiss does mention that playing with nails is acceptable on the  
theorbo

but not on the lute (I don't have the exact quote to hand)

In his letter to Mattheson he said that the theorbo yielded a  
somewhat

rude sound as it was ordinairement (usually, ordinarily) played with
nails. From which we may conclude that Weiss had nails long enough to
play the theorbo since that was one of his duties at court. Which  
makes

me wonder as for his playing the lute...

Mathias


LGS-Europe wrote:

Perhaps OT on the lute-list either way, but I mentioned Sor and

Giuliani,

not baroque guitar music. Neither did I write one cannot play one

[LUTE] Re: Piccinini Questions

[Daniel Winheld]

That's because Bach didn't have the same hands-on exactness for 
idiosyncratic playability that Piccinini  Weiss had with lutes. He 
hit an approximate range, texture, and either figured a real lute 
player could work it out, or he really composed (at least some of it) 
for his Lautenwork (sp?) and anyway he recycled so much of his music 
around from one format to another that the idea of specificity is 
moot. Hell, just yell SUIT NO. SIX into the 'cellist's bar during 
happy hour and watch the fur fly.

After so much concern given to matching the exact instrument and
configuration favored by a composer (namely Piccinini), I'm a little
surprised by the recommendation of any lute-like thingy, especially an
archlute, for playing Bach.

Best,
Eugene

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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini Questions

[Daniel Winheld]

And speaking from experience- I have an ancient Bob Lundberg original 
13 course bass rider Baroque lute. Wanting to play Piccinini 
specifically and explore the archlute/Italian Baroque lute generally, 
I re-strung  tuned the Lundberg. Very, very clumsy and ineffective 
for that repertoire. Struggled with it for a number of years, not 
having the resources to secure a proper arch thing; and this was 
about 15 - 20 years ago, and I didn't know quite what to get anyway. 
I still have the Lundberg- back in it's proper disposition, and play 
only d-minor lute music. I leave Bach alone, for now, on any 
instrument- and take my hat off to those who play the lute suites 
well on any fretted thing- from d-minor lute to theorbo.


That's because Bach didn't have the same hands-on exactness for
idiosyncratic playability that Piccinini  Weiss had with lutes. He
hit an approximate range, texture, and either figured a real lute
player could work it out, or he really composed (at least some of it)
for his Lautenwork (sp?) and anyway he recycled so much of his music
around from one format to another that the idea of specificity is
moot. Hell, just yell SUIT NO. SIX into the 'cellist's bar during
happy hour and watch the fur fly.

After so much concern given to matching the exact instrument and
configuration favored by a composer (namely Piccinini), I'm a little
surprised by the recommendation of any lute-like thingy, especially an
archlute, for playing Bach.

Best,
  Eugene


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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini Questions

[David Tayler]

Re chitarrone  theorbo--
Skip the label.
Early on, some modern scholars decided to conflate the theorbo and 
the chitarrone.
Historically, that is not the case. Historically, many of these terms 
meant different things to different people at different times.
There may have been a Chitarrone bass lute of some sort as well. I 
have a bass lute in G (single or double reentrant) that I use which 
has a big sound and does not get stuck in revolving doors.

More research needs to be done in this area, but as a practical 
matter SKIP the modern label and instead just
pick an original instrument that is a close match. There are lots of 
old instruments to choose from. Go straight there, do not pass go, do 
not collect
200 bronze sestertii.

For renaissance music we do this routinely--eg, I might say the 
ricercars of Capirola sound great on my 68cm Laux Maler and the
intabulations I prefer on my 56cm Frey. I might not even mention the 
word LUTE because without context the word lute does not mean anything.

In a case like this, we match up the repertory to (hopefully) 
something from roughly the same time and place that allows us
to play the piece (has enough strings, etc)

Then someone else comes along and says well, I prefer the Gerle for 
that repertory (I have to get one of those..)

This gets to the real instrument, not the modern way-too-general 
label. Renaissance players have done this for years.

Another way to look at it is just the museum number
C36 is my favorite lute Of course C36 is the old numbering. But it 
is still my favorite lute. You'll always be C36 to me.(snif).

The advantage to doing it this way is that we have a better chance of 
making a good match, like that great archlute in Halle, what does 
that sound like? Maybe it is Piccinini's (joke--but maybe)
We also see that there are way more instruments than there are terms, 
so looking at the originals allows us to see and use the full monte 
available, not just the modern, single strung theorbosaurus. Or the 
Tiorbasaurus as it was known in Italy.

In the case of Piccinini, do read as well his little clues as to 
tuning, etc., but a museum match is the way I would go--skip the 
modern label. Since Piccinini customized his intruments, a perfect 
match may not be available,
but there are many historical models to choose from, and of course an 
historical copy can be customized to what you might think P. would 
want, easier to do than in the case of the Pandora. The bass lute in 
G is an invaluable addition to
my collection, but I would not use it for everything. It is the 
loudest lute, however.

My favorite Piccinini instruction is to not slow down the cadence 
notes--easier said than done. I practiced this by listening to 
harpsichordists play the articulated trills.

dt





At 11:08 AM 12/23/2007, you wrote:
Greetings,

I've been listening to Nigel North's album of Piccinini, and I have a few
questions:

(First, a comment): Piccinini needs to be much better known. His music is
remarkable.

1. There's a facsimile available on the django website, but is there an
edition?
2. Piccinini's work appears to be for lute and chitarrone. I assume that's
the same thing as saying for archlute and theorbo?
3. Is it all virtuoso work, or can a dedicated amateur, armed with his
archlute, attempt it? (I need to know before contemplating the purchase of
an archlute!)

Regards,

Jim Abraham

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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini Questions

[David Tayler]

When getting an archlute, get one that can be either double or single 
strung, and have different divisions, e.g. 6+8, 7+7
8+6, etc. 8+6 is great for Bach (low F and F sharp; C and C sharp). 
6+8 great for earlier repertory.
More holes; less poles.

Or buy 6 archlutes.
dt




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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini Questions

[Jim Abraham]

Still laughing.

On Dec 23, 2007 3:28 PM, David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 Or buy 6 archlutes.
 dt




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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini Questions

[Daniel Winheld]

Priceless; archlute advice for the ages- from one who has paid his dues.
More holes; less poles!

-But I still will not touch Sting's CD with a ten foot theorbo (yes 
I've heard it). The late Lorraine Hunt is another matter entirely.
-- 
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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini notation query

[Jerzy Zak]

For me the simple answer is:
-- three quick note / one long / three quick note / one long / etc...
Unless sombody knows another source with a more precise notation of the 
piece, there is no authoritative solution to the question. To my 
knowledge that generation of lutenists had no way to notate triplets, 
therefore several fragments uncleare rythmically may come from that 
problem (Kapsperger is full of such mad measures!). In the end I'd feel 
free to play as I like -- this is simple music with much space for 
''ornamentation'', also rythmical.

Just personal solution.
Best,
Jurek
___

On 2007-12-02, at 15:25, Rob wrote:

What do you think Piccinini is indicating here?
http://www.rmguitar.info/temp.htm
Bar 2 and similar: minim.triplet semiquavers.crotchet?
Rob MacKillop
www.rmguitar.info






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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini notation query

[Andrea Damiani]

I think the dot on the left of the crotchet means that it takes some  
value from the preceding tactus. It could be: minim - 3semiquavers -  
1semiquaver tied to the crotchet.  or: minim - semiquavers triplet -  
dotted crotchet. The first seems to sound more natural.


Il giorno 02/dic/07, alle ore 15:25, Rob ha scritto:


What do you think Piccinini is indicating here?
http://www.rmguitar.info/temp.htm



Bar 2 and similar: minim.triplet semiquavers.crotchet?



Rob MacKillop

www.rmguitar.info








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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini in French Tabulature? any help apreciated...

[David Rastall]

Sarge Gerbode's website has four pieces:  look on www.gerbode.net/ft2/ 
composers/Piccinini/

On Sep 2, 2006, at 7:27 AM, Anton Birula wrote:

 I am looking for the works by Allessandro Piccinini in
 french
 tabulature

David R
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.rastallmusic.com




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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[dc]

Belated thanks to all for the links. I've downloaded the two different 
versions mentioned.

Is there a preference or a standard for modern editions in tablature?

Dennis




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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[Howard Posner]

On Saturday, Nov 12, 2005, at 12:08 America/Los_Angeles, dc wrote:

 Where might I find the music for this Ciaccona?

It's in his 1623 book.  Both Piccinini books are included in SPES #50



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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[Gordon J. Callon]

I have a transcription (Italian tablature also with keyboard 
realization), as three PostScript files at 
http://ace.acadiau.ca/score/archive/ftp.htm#P

GJC

On 12 Nov 2005 at 21:08, dc wrote:

Date sent:  Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:08:52 +0100
To: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
From:   dc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:[LUTE] Piccinini

 Where might I find the music for this Ciaccona?
 
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/download/audio/Ciaccona_Piccinini.mp3
 
 Thanks,
 
 Dennis
 
 
 
 
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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[Eric Crouch]

Begin forwarded message:

 From: Eric Crouch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 13 November 2005 15:30:11 GMT
 To: dc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Piccinini

 You can find it here: http://www.gerbode.net/ft2/composers/ 
 Piccinini/

 Eric Crouch

 On 12 Nov 2005, at 20:08, dc wrote:

 Where might I find the music for this Ciaccona?

 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/download/audio/ 
 Ciaccona_Piccinini.mp3

 Thanks,

 Dennis




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 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



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[LUTE] Re: Piccinini

[Thomas Schall]

Try the Fronimo Group at yahoo.

Best wishes
Thomas

Am Samstag, 12. November 2005 21:08 schrieben Sie:
 Where might I find the music for this Ciaccona?

 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/download/audio/Ciaccona_Piccinini.mp3

 Thanks,

 Dennis




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 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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