[LUTE] Re: Red string
That's a nice read, Martyn. Thanks for posting it. I recall some of it from a lecture he gave several years ago. He can talk non-stop for hours about gut strings. On 05/29/16, Martyn Hodgson<hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: I'd heard a similar story some years ago but then the culprit was mercuric oxide (also dangerous and absorbable through the skin) which is also red/brown. Peruffo mentioned it when he was researching his concept of loaded strings - effectively reducing the diameter for the same mass p. u. length to favour more upper harmonics. The same brilliant characteristic may, as you say, also be the reason for thinner, but still as tense, violin first strings. Peruffo's pdf here contains some good pics of lutes with coloured strings - mostly red. [1][1]http://ricerche.aquilacorde.com/wp-content/uploads/liuto-en.pdf MH __ From: AJN <[2]arthurjn...@verizon.net> To: [3]sauvag...@orange.fr; [4]lutesm...@gmail.com; [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: [6]ckolczyn...@bpl.org Sent: Sunday, 29 May 2016, 14:26 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Red string It has been many years (20 +++) since I heard an explanation about the red strings. It was (iirc) from a person at an agriculture college up in New Brunswick. He apparently had been researching the history of gut strings. The red ones were loaded with arsenic (!!!). A top string loaded with arsenic might be comparable to the modern violin's metal e-string. To produce a brilliant sound. Musical string research is difficult because the makers didn't want to reveal trade secrets. And would you buy a string with arsenic? As I recall the most detailed explanation of musical string manufacture is in Diderot's encyclopedia. Here's a picture: [1][2][7]http://quod.lib.umich.edu/d/did/did.0001.398/--gut-stri ng-maker?rgn=main;view=fulltext The following video just explains the mechanics. Mimmo Peruffo is the proprietor of Aquila strings. He must have seen the Diderot drawing. He started when he found some string making machinery in an old barn. You can see the Mimmo's old winding machines here: [2][3][8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded=wRQq_0 VM1 10 On 05/28/16, Valery SAUVAGE<[3][4][9]sauvag...@orange.fr> wrote: If you look at "l'homme au luth" (Rubens ? Troyes museum St Loup) you can see some strings are red too, and not only basses... (but I have no asnwer about it, copper loading is understandable for bass strings but treble ?) [4][5][10]http://lavie-enchampagne.com/pdf/numero75/numero75.pdf (perhaps you can find a better photo of the painting ?) ValA(c)ry > Message du 28/05/16 16:46 > De : "Sean Smith" <[5][6][11]lutesm...@gmail.com> > A : "lute list" <[6][7][12]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Copie A : > Objet : [LUTE] Red string > > > Good morning all, > > I was impressed this painting: > [7][8][13]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van _de_ jar en_veertig_4494.cfm > > I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started zooming around with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing is unrealistic the top string was red. I hadn't heard about this from our modern string revivalists so I'm curious. What do you think it might be? > > Sean > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [8][9][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. [10][15]http://quod.lib.umich.edu/d/did/did.0001.398/--gut-string-m aker ?rgn=main;view=fulltext 2. [11][16]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded=wRQq_0V M110 3. mailto:[12][17]sauvag...@orange.fr 4. [13][18]http://lavie-enchampagne.com/pdf/numero75/numero75.pdf 5. mailto:[14][19]lutesm...@gmail.com 6. mailto:[15][20]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. [16][21]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_d e_ja r 8. [17][22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/ -- References 1. [23]http://ricerche.aquilacorde.com/wp-content/uploads/liuto-en.pdf 2. [24]http://quod.lib.umich.edu/d/did/did.0001.398/--gut-stri 3. [25]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded=wRQq_0VM110 4. [26]mailto:sauvag...@orange.fr 5. [27]http://lavie-enchampagne.com/pdf/numero75/numero75.pdf 6. [28]mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com 7. [29]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. [30]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_ja r 9. [31]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. [32]http://quod.lib.umich.edu/d/did/did.0001.398/--gut-string-maker ?rgn=main;view=fulltext 11
[LUTE] Re: Red string
I'd heard a similar story some years ago but then the culprit was mercuric oxide (also dangerous and absorbable through the skin) which is also red/brown. Peruffo mentioned it when he was researching his concept of loaded strings - effectively reducing the diameter for the same mass p. u. length to favour more upper harmonics. The same brilliant characteristic may, as you say, also be the reason for thinner, but still as tense, violin first strings. Peruffo's pdf here contains some good pics of lutes with coloured strings - mostly red. [1]http://ricerche.aquilacorde.com/wp-content/uploads/liuto-en.pdf MH __ From: AJN <arthurjn...@verizon.net> To: sauvag...@orange.fr; lutesm...@gmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: ckolczyn...@bpl.org Sent: Sunday, 29 May 2016, 14:26 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Red string It has been many years (20 +++) since I heard an explanation about the red strings. It was (iirc) from a person at an agriculture college up in New Brunswick. He apparently had been researching the history of gut strings. The red ones were loaded with arsenic (!!!). A top string loaded with arsenic might be comparable to the modern violin's metal e-string. To produce a brilliant sound. Musical string research is difficult because the makers didn't want to reveal trade secrets. And would you buy a string with arsenic? As I recall the most detailed explanation of musical string manufacture is in Diderot's encyclopedia. Here's a picture: [1][2]http://quod.lib.umich.edu/d/did/did.0001.398/--gut-stri ng-maker?rgn=main;view=fulltext The following video just explains the mechanics. Mimmo Peruffo is the proprietor of Aquila strings. He must have seen the Diderot drawing. He started when he found some string making machinery in an old barn. You can see the Mimmo's old winding machines here: [2][3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded=wRQq_0VM1 10 On 05/28/16, Valery SAUVAGE<[3][4]sauvag...@orange.fr> wrote: If you look at "l'homme au luth" (Rubens ? Troyes museum St Loup) you can see some strings are red too, and not only basses... (but I have no asnwer about it, copper loading is understandable for bass strings but treble ?) [4][5]http://lavie-enchampagne.com/pdf/numero75/numero75.pdf (perhaps you can find a better photo of the painting ?) ValA(c)ry > Message du 28/05/16 16:46 > De : "Sean Smith" <[5][6]lutesm...@gmail.com> > A : "lute list" <[6][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Copie A : > Objet : [LUTE] Red string > > > Good morning all, > > I was impressed this painting: > [7][8]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_ jar en_veertig_4494.cfm > > I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started zooming around with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing is unrealistic the top string was red. I hadn't heard about this from our modern string revivalists so I'm curious. What do you think it might be? > > Sean > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [8][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. [10]http://quod.lib.umich.edu/d/did/did.0001.398/--gut-string-maker ?rgn=main;view=fulltext 2. [11]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded=wRQq_0VM110 3. mailto:[12]sauvag...@orange.fr 4. [13]http://lavie-enchampagne.com/pdf/numero75/numero75.pdf 5. mailto:[14]lutesm...@gmail.com 6. mailto:[15]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. [16]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_ja r 8. [17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/ -- References 1. http://ricerche.aquilacorde.com/wp-content/uploads/liuto-en.pdf 2. http://quod.lib.umich.edu/d/did/did.0001.398/--gut-stri 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded=wRQq_0VM110 4. mailto:sauvag...@orange.fr 5. http://lavie-enchampagne.com/pdf/numero75/numero75.pdf 6. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com 7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jar 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. http://quod.lib.umich.edu/d/did/did.0001.398/--gut-string-maker?rgn=main;view=fulltext 11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded=wRQq_0VM110 12. mailto:sauvag...@orange.fr 13. http://lavie-enchampagne.com/pdf/numero75/numero75.pdf 14. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com 15. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 16. http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jar 17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/
[LUTE] Re: Red string
It has been many years (20 +++) since I heard an explanation about the red strings. It was (iirc) from a person at an agriculture college up in New Brunswick. He apparently had been researching the history of gut strings. The red ones were loaded with arsenic (!!!). A top string loaded with arsenic might be comparable to the modern violin's metal e-string. To produce a brilliant sound. Musical string research is difficult because the makers didn't want to reveal trade secrets. And would you buy a string with arsenic? As I recall the most detailed explanation of musical string manufacture is in Diderot's encyclopedia. Here's a picture: [1]http://quod.lib.umich.edu/d/did/did.0001.398/--gut-stri ng-maker?rgn=main;view=fulltext The following video just explains the mechanics. Mimmo Peruffo is the proprietor of Aquila strings. He must have seen the Diderot drawing. He started when he found some string making machinery in an old barn. You can see the Mimmo's old winding machines here: [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded=wRQq_0VM110 On 05/28/16, Valery SAUVAGE<[3]sauvag...@orange.fr> wrote: If you look at "l'homme au luth" (Rubens ? Troyes museum St Loup) you can see some strings are red too, and not only basses... (but I have no asnwer about it, copper loading is understandable for bass strings but treble ?) [4]http://lavie-enchampagne.com/pdf/numero75/numero75.pdf (perhaps you can find a better photo of the painting ?) ValA(c)ry > Message du 28/05/16 16:46 > De : "Sean Smith" <[5]lutesm...@gmail.com> > A : "lute list" <[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Copie A : > Objet : [LUTE] Red string > > > Good morning all, > > I was impressed this painting: > [7]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jar en_veertig_4494.cfm > > I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started zooming around with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing is unrealistic the top string was red. I hadn't heard about this from our modern string revivalists so I'm curious. What do you think it might be? > > Sean > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. http://quod.lib.umich.edu/d/did/did.0001.398/--gut-string-maker?rgn=main;view=fulltext 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded=wRQq_0VM110 3. mailto:sauvag...@orange.fr 4. http://lavie-enchampagne.com/pdf/numero75/numero75.pdf 5. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com 6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jar 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/
[LUTE] Re: Red string
I have a fun explanation - her earlier string broke, and she had to use a string taken from a harpist… and the only spare string the harpist had was one of the red-coloured ones. Edward C. Yong edward.y...@gmail.com > On 29 May 2016, at 2:16 am, Valery SAUVAGEwrote: > > If you look at "l'homme au luth" (Rubens ? Troyes museum St Loup) > > you can see some strings are red too, and not only basses... (but I > have no asnwer about it, copper loading is understandable for bass > strings but treble ?) > > http://lavie-enchampagne.com/pdf/numero75/numero75.pdf > > (perhaps you can find a better photo of the painting ?) > > ValA(c)ry > > > > > > >> Message du 28/05/16 16:46 >> De : "Sean Smith" >> A : "lute list" >> Copie A : >> Objet : [LUTE] Red string >> >> >> Good morning all, >> >> I was impressed this painting: >> > http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jar > en_veertig_4494.cfm >> >> I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started > zooming around with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing > is unrealistic the top string was red. I hadn't heard about this > from our modern string revivalists so I'm curious. What do you think > it might be? >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > -- >
[LUTE] Re: Red string
If you look at "l'homme au luth" (Rubens ? Troyes museum St Loup) you can see some strings are red too, and not only basses... (but I have no asnwer about it, copper loading is understandable for bass strings but treble ?) http://lavie-enchampagne.com/pdf/numero75/numero75.pdf (perhaps you can find a better photo of the painting ?) ValA(c)ry > Message du 28/05/16 16:46 > De : "Sean Smith"> A : "lute list" > Copie A : > Objet : [LUTE] Red string > > > Good morning all, > > I was impressed this painting: > http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jar en_veertig_4494.cfm > > I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started zooming around with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing is unrealistic the top string was red. I hadn't heard about this from our modern string revivalists so I'm curious. What do you think it might be? > > Sean > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > --
[LUTE] Re: Red string
Thank you, Martin. I shall do my reading up. Thats a very nice lute! s > On May 28, 2016, at 10:10 AM, Martin Shepherdwrote: > > There is an excellent essay on this painting by David Van Edwards in the > latest Lute News. > > There are many paintings showing coloured strings (not just basses, where it > might be an indication of loading), Dowland mentions them, and I think some > strings were just dyed different colours for some reason which escapes us. > > M > >> On 28/05/2016 18:27, Sean Smith wrote: >> Hmm, too early for a canarios maybe? >> >> I get the feeling she's not a seasoned player so I'm not taking anything >> from her playing style. >> >> Sean >> >>> On May 28, 2016, at 8:15 AM, Edward Martin wrote: >>> >>> What about the bird on her shoulder? >>> >>> On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:59 AM, G. C. <[1]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>pls. notice the RH nail contact? >>>On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Sean Smith >>> <[1][2]lutesm...@gmail.com> >>>wrote: >>> Good morning all, >>> I was impressed this painting: >>> >>> [2][3]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_ >>> de_ >>> jaren_veertig_4494.cfm >>> I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started >>> zooming >>> around with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing is >>> unrealistic the top string was red. I hadn't heard about this >>> from >>> our modern string revivalists so I'm curious. What do you think >>> it >>> might be? >>> Sean >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>> [3][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>>-- >>> References >>>1. mailto:[5]lutesm...@gmail.com >>>2. >>> [6]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_ >>> jaren_veertig_4494.cfm >>>3. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> >>> -- >>> >>> References >>> >>> 1. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com >>> 2. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com >>> 3. http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_ >>> 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> 5. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com >>> 6. >>> http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jaren_veertig_4494.cfm >>> 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >
[LUTE] Re: Red string
There is an excellent essay on this painting by David Van Edwards in the latest Lute News. There are many paintings showing coloured strings (not just basses, where it might be an indication of loading), Dowland mentions them, and I think some strings were just dyed different colours for some reason which escapes us. M On 28/05/2016 18:27, Sean Smith wrote: Hmm, too early for a canarios maybe? I get the feeling she's not a seasoned player so I'm not taking anything from her playing style. Sean On May 28, 2016, at 8:15 AM, Edward Martinwrote: What about the bird on her shoulder? On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:59 AM, G. C. <[1]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote: pls. notice the RH nail contact? On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Sean Smith <[1][2]lutesm...@gmail.com> wrote: Good morning all, I was impressed this painting: [2][3]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_ de_ jaren_veertig_4494.cfm I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started zooming around with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing is unrealistic the top string was red. I hadn't heard about this from our modern string revivalists so I'm curious. What do you think it might be? Sean To get on or off this list see list information at [3][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[5]lutesm...@gmail.com 2. [6]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_ jaren_veertig_4494.cfm 3. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com 2. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com 3. http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_ 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com 6. http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jaren_veertig_4494.cfm 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
[LUTE] Re: Red string
Hmm, too early for a canarios maybe? I get the feeling she's not a seasoned player so I'm not taking anything from her playing style. Sean > On May 28, 2016, at 8:15 AM, Edward Martinwrote: > > What about the bird on her shoulder? > > On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:59 AM, G. C. <[1]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote: > >pls. notice the RH nail contact? >On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Sean Smith > <[1][2]lutesm...@gmail.com> >wrote: > Good morning all, > I was impressed this painting: > > [2][3]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_ > de_ > jaren_veertig_4494.cfm > I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started > zooming > around with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing is > unrealistic the top string was red. I hadn't heard about this > from > our modern string revivalists so I'm curious. What do you think > it > might be? > Sean > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >-- > References >1. mailto:[5]lutesm...@gmail.com >2. > [6]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_ > jaren_veertig_4494.cfm >3. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com > 2. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com > 3. http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_ > 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 5. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com > 6. > http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jaren_veertig_4494.cfm > 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: Red string
What about the bird on her shoulder? On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:59 AM, G. C. <[1]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote: pls. notice the RH nail contact? On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Sean Smith <[1][2]lutesm...@gmail.com> wrote: Good morning all, I was impressed this painting: [2][3]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_ de_ jaren_veertig_4494.cfm I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started zooming around with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing is unrealistic the top string was red. I hadn't heard about this from our modern string revivalists so I'm curious. What do you think it might be? Sean To get on or off this list see list information at [3][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[5]lutesm...@gmail.com 2. [6]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_ jaren_veertig_4494.cfm 3. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com 2. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com 3. http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_ 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com 6. http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jaren_veertig_4494.cfm 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Red string
pls. notice the RH nail contact? On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Sean Smith <[1]lutesm...@gmail.com> wrote: Good morning all, I was impressed this painting: [2]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_ jaren_veertig_4494.cfm I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started zooming around with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing is unrealistic the top string was red. I hadn't heard about this from our modern string revivalists so I'm curious. What do you think it might be? Sean To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com 2. http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jaren_veertig_4494.cfm 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Red string
An awesome illustration of collapsing the last joint! RT On 5/28/2016 10:42 AM, Sean Smith wrote: Good morning all, I was impressed this painting: http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jaren_veertig_4494.cfm I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started zooming around with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing is unrealistic the top string was red. I hadn’t heard about this from our modern string revivalists so I’m curious. What do you think it might be? Sean To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html