[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Lynda Kraar]

   RIP Julian Bream.

   As a teenager in Toronto, the very first records I took out of the
   library were the Toronto Consort, who introduced me to Julian Bream's
   music, and Woods So Wild. After that I signed out Lute Music from the
   Royal Courts of Europe and Julian Bream Plays Dowland. And that was
   that: I was hooked - for the rest of my life. In 1976 I had Michael
   Schreiner build a lute for me with all the money I had made teaching
   horseback riding at camp. My teacher was Miles Dempster and then it was
   off to the races. Julian, you lived an incredible life. I will joyfully
   celebrate all the gifts you gave to us, with humility and gratitude.
   Lynda Kraar

   On Saturday, August 15, 2020, 07:26:57 AM EDT, Ron Andrico
wrote:
 We have posted our Saturday morning quotes for today, honoring Julian
 Bream.
 [1][1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4C9
 Ron & Donna
 Virus-free. [2]www.avast.com
 --
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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Tristan von Neumann]

True! You can't put Early Music into concert halls and call it
historical performance.

I once heard Jordi Savall and his orchestra (about 20 people or so) with
Corelli in a huge Symphony Hall.

It was nice, but it totally lacked the impact it would have had in a
more intimate setting.

And if it must be a big hall, historically informed perfomance would
mean increasing the apparatus to at least 60 people.

Open air performances would even require 200 people. But of course, this
is way too expensive (as it was back in the day).

Performances of the Royal Fireworks Music in its original beauty require
a massive wind band, but we mostly get the chamber version which sounds
more like backyard fireworks on New Year's Eve.


Especially lute music totally loses its impact in even slightly bigger
rooms.

How come lutenists don't even sit in the corner, which is the only
acoustically appropriate place to play from?


Again, some personal experience:

Just recently I played in a garden at a summer solstice fire (not too
close).

People were talking, those who wanted to listen sat next to me. (No
Coronoia people were present...).

Everyone was happy. Even the non-listeners enjoyed the atmosphere.

No one complained about mistakes I made, just playing from tabs.

I have no problem playing for many hours, just having fun. It's actually
way more pleasing.

Imagine what a pro lutenist could achieve in this setting.

People would learn to enjoy the music much more, and lutenists could be
like DJs again, adjusting the music to the required atmosphere on the fly.

They would be open to request: "I loved this piece, can you play a
similar one?" "Do you have music from Spain?"

Now imagine improvisation of treble/ground with two or three lutes.

This doesn't even require any preparation if you are skilled, and it's
basically like playing Jazz the whole evening.

And why not gather your recorder/flute/percussion friends too and play
dances for people who actually dance?

Why wait for a Renaissance Fair only to be paled by the Bagpipe Gang?

There's so much to gain if you let go of the Victorian concert attitude
(and the Coronoia).



On 04.07.20 17:37, Ron Andrico wrote:

We have posted our Saturday morning quotes for the 4th of July, 2020.

[1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4yy

Ron & Donna

--

References

1. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4yy


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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Ron Andrico]

   Dear Martyn:

   Thank you for your kind and encouraging words.  As to your suggestion,
   yes, we have considered publishing a selection from what has become a
   rather large body of work.  We assembled the full contents of what is
   now nearly ten years' worth of Unquiet Thoughts and it comes to nearly
   4,000 pages, which we have already begun editing down to feature the
   most interesting and useful material.  But this rather large project
   must wait until we have put the finishing touches on another rather
   large project, which we will be announcing at the end of this week.

   Best,

   Ron & Donna
 __

   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of Martyn Hodgson
   
   Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 6:58 AM
   To: Lutelist Net ; Ron Andrico
   
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

  Dear Donna and Ron,
  I often find your Sat quotes interesting but don't always make time
   to
  read every single one!
  I wonder if you've considered of making them all available in some
   sort
  of omnibus edition so that they can be readily accessed at a later,
  more convenient, date. Just a thought...
  regards
  Martyn
  On Saturday, 2 May 2020, 17:31:22 BST, Ron Andrico
   wrote:
We have posted our Saturday morning quotes for today.
[1][1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4vc
Ron & Donna
--
  References
1. [2]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4vc
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  --
   References
  1. [1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4vc
  2. [2]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4vc
  3. [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4vc
   2. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4vc
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Martyn Hodgson]

   Dear Donna and Ron,
   I often find your Sat quotes interesting but don't always make time to
   read every single one!
   I wonder if you've considered of making them all available in some sort
   of omnibus edition so that they can be readily accessed at a later,
   more convenient, date. Just a thought...
   regards
   Martyn

   On Saturday, 2 May 2020, 17:31:22 BST, Ron Andrico
wrote:
 We have posted our Saturday morning quotes for today.
 [1][1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4vc
 Ron & Donna
 --
   References
 1. [2]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4vc
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4vc
   2. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4vc
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Ron Andrico]

   Thank you Dick.  We are glad to know you enjoy the music.  More to
   come.

   Donna & Ron
 __

   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of Dick Hoban
   
   Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2020 10:26 PM
   To: Ron Andrico 
   Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

   Thanks, Ron & Donna
   Your video is superb musical entertainment in our time of isolation and
   solitude.
   Dick
   Sent from my iPhone
   > On Mar 21, 2020, at 3:59 PM, Ron Andrico 
   wrote:
   >
   >    Better late than never, we have posted a new video today with two
   songs
   >   by Bartolomeo Tromboncino.  We hope all are well, particularly our
   >   friends in Italy.
   >
   >   [1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4uC
   >
   >   Ron & Donna
   >
   >   Virus-free. [2]www.avast.com
   >
   >   --
   >
   > References
   >
   >   Visible links:
   >   1. [1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4uC
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   >
   >
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References

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   4. 
file:///net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L3435316-5532TMP.html#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Dick Hoban]

Thanks, Ron & Donna
Your video is superb musical entertainment in our time of isolation and 
solitude.

Dick

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 21, 2020, at 3:59 PM, Ron Andrico  wrote:
> 
>    Better late than never, we have posted a new video today with two songs
>   by Bartolomeo Tromboncino.  We hope all are well, particularly our
>   friends in Italy.
> 
>   [1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4uC
> 
>   Ron & Donna
> 
>   Virus-free. [2]www.avast.com
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   Visible links:
>   1. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4uC
>   2. 
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=link
> 
>   Hidden links:
>   4. 
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon
>   5. 
> file://localhost/net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L3435316-5532TMP.html#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
> 
> 
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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Tristan von Neumann]

PS: If you want a glimpse at how polyphony sounds with Indian voices,
check out this Dhrupad by the Gundecha Brothers.

Though Indian music is mostly monody, harmonies are sometimes used in
the extensive Prelude/Ricercar at the beginning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MskgNpSf1c4


On 26.08.19 11:56, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

Thanks George,

this is interesting!

Though I was referring to Afghan singers because they are mentioned in
the source explicitly as singing like Europeans.

For diminution practices and virtuoso singing, I consider Indian
singers a good inspiration.

Indian music theory also talks about how not to sing, being very much
in line with what Ron wrote.

On 26.08.19 11:07, Georges de Lucenay wrote:

Maybe classic Iranian singers would be even a better demonstration. You
get the impression of understanding what they sing, not knowing a
single word of their language.
There are some very interesting records from 1920 and later in :
[1]https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbna8Sjey3cn5pdiTDNfHgEHoTRW2
uppy
Enjoy before Donald forbid...
Georges

Le 24/08/2019 à 15:43, Tristan von Neumann a écrit :

  Thanks Ron! I wish more Early Musicians would turn to their natural
  voices.
  And polyphonic madrigals are rarely sung in a natural voice, many
  performances I find very irritating.
  Apart from sources, there is another way to approximate the sound of
  the
  voice around 1600:
  A Jesuit traveller in Afghanistan in the early 17th century
  witnessed a
  singer and wrote that he sang exactly like Europeans, with an open
  natural voice, as opposed to the forced "in the throat" style of
  (East)
  Asians.
  (Unfortunately I forgot to bookmark the source, but I will look for
  it
  again, if anyone is interested.)
  Anyway - we can listen to Afghan singers today, and it's like what
  we
  would expect:
  [2]https://youtu.be/CWY1u661ZB0?t=84
  Note that the singer carefully pays attention to make the text
  clear,
  rarely using graces. And we don't see gaping mouths either.
  This type of voice I would like to hear in Early Music.
  On 24.08.19 14:46, Ron Andrico wrote:

  We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this time on a topic
  of
  crucial importance to lutenists who perform with singers.
  [1][3]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn
  Ron & Donna
  --
  References
  1. [4]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--
Georges de Lucenay

11, rue du Prieuré
71120 Charolles

06 77 77 12 33

--

References

1. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbna8Sjey3cn5pdiTDNfHgEHoTRW2uppy
2. https://youtu.be/CWY1u661ZB0?t=84
3. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn
4. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn
5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Tristan von Neumann]

   Thanks George,

   this is interesting!

   Though I was referring to Afghan singers because they are mentioned in
   the source explicitly as singing like Europeans.

   For diminution practices and virtuoso singing, I consider Indian
   singers a good inspiration.

   Indian music theory also talks about how not to sing, being very much
   in line with what Ron wrote.

   On 26.08.19 11:07, Georges de Lucenay wrote:

   Maybe classic Iranian singers would be even a better demonstration. You
   get the impression of understanding what they sing, not knowing a
   single word of their language.
   There are some very interesting records from 1920 and later in :
   [1]https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbna8Sjey3cn5pdiTDNfHgEHoTRW2
   uppy
   Enjoy before Donald forbid...
   Georges

   Le 24/08/2019 à 15:43, Tristan von Neumann a écrit :

 Thanks Ron! I wish more Early Musicians would turn to their natural
 voices.
 And polyphonic madrigals are rarely sung in a natural voice, many
 performances I find very irritating.
 Apart from sources, there is another way to approximate the sound of
 the
 voice around 1600:
 A Jesuit traveller in Afghanistan in the early 17th century
 witnessed a
 singer and wrote that he sang exactly like Europeans, with an open
 natural voice, as opposed to the forced "in the throat" style of
 (East)
 Asians.
 (Unfortunately I forgot to bookmark the source, but I will look for
 it
 again, if anyone is interested.)
 Anyway - we can listen to Afghan singers today, and it's like what
 we
 would expect:
 [2]https://youtu.be/CWY1u661ZB0?t=84
 Note that the singer carefully pays attention to make the text
 clear,
 rarely using graces. And we don't see gaping mouths either.
 This type of voice I would like to hear in Early Music.
 On 24.08.19 14:46, Ron Andrico wrote:

 We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this time on a topic
 of
 crucial importance to lutenists who perform with singers.
 [1][3]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn
 Ron & Donna
 --
 References
 1. [4]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--
Georges de Lucenay

11, rue du Prieuré
71120 Charolles

06 77 77 12 33

   --

References

   1. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbna8Sjey3cn5pdiTDNfHgEHoTRW2uppy
   2. https://youtu.be/CWY1u661ZB0?t=84
   3. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn
   4. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Tristan von Neumann]

I second that! The Rore album is stunning. It also features a Ceterone.


On 25.08.19 03:43, Jurgen Frenz wrote:

thank you very much for the post and listen to "grain de la voix", there are 
several recordings on YouTube.
Jurgen


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 7:46 PM, Ron Andrico  wrote:


We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this time on a topic of
crucial importance to lutenists who perform with singers.

[1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn

Ron & Donna



References

1.  https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Jurgen Frenz]

thank you very much for the post and listen to "grain de la voix", there are 
several recordings on YouTube.
Jurgen


--
“Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 7:46 PM, Ron Andrico  wrote:

> We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this time on a topic of
> crucial importance to lutenists who perform with singers.
>
> [1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn
>
> Ron & Donna
>
> 
>
> References
>
> 1.  https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Tristan von Neumann]

Thanks Ron! I wish more Early Musicians would turn to their natural voices.

And polyphonic madrigals are rarely sung in a natural voice, many
performances I find very irritating.


Apart from sources, there is another way to approximate the sound of the
voice around 1600:

A Jesuit traveller in Afghanistan in the early 17th century witnessed a
singer and wrote that he sang exactly like Europeans, with an open
natural voice, as opposed to the forced "in the throat" style of (East)
Asians.

(Unfortunately I forgot to bookmark the source, but I will look for it
again, if anyone is interested.)

Anyway - we can listen to Afghan singers today, and it's like what we
would expect:

https://youtu.be/CWY1u661ZB0?t=84


Note that the singer carefully pays attention to make the text clear,
rarely using graces. And we don't see gaping mouths either.

This type of voice I would like to hear in Early Music.



On 24.08.19 14:46, Ron Andrico wrote:

We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this time on a topic of
crucial importance to lutenists who perform with singers.

[1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn

Ron & Donna

--

References

1. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4pn


To get on or off this list see list information at
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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - New link

[Martin Shepherd]

Thanks for this, Ron.  List members might like to know that I wrote on a 
similar topic: http://luteshop.co.uk/the-great-silence/


Best to all,

Martin

On 01/06/2019 15:06, Ron Andrico wrote:

Wordpress is forever rearranging their format and keeping us guessing.
Here is a new link that actually has content.

[1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4p0

Ron & Donna

Virus-free. [2]www.avast.com

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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Susan Sandman]

   The performance has a lovely sonority. Congrats.
   On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 12:08 PM Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this week with a
 video of
Josquin's Stabat Mater
[1][2]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4nY
Ron & Donna
--
 References
1. [3]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4nY
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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   2. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4nY
   3. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4nY
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Lachrimae

[Antonio Corona]

 __

   Dear Ron,
   Tears started to fall before Dowland published "Flow my tears". Have a
   look at "Come heavy sleep", published in the First Book of 1697.
   Best
   Antonio
   P.S. Of course I'm aware that the manuscript versions of the solo piece
   antedate the First Book.
   From: Ron Andrico 
   To: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" 
   Sent: Saturday, 1 September 2018, 7:49
   Subject: [LUTE] Saturday morning quotes - Lachrimae
 We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, continuing our series on
 Lachrimae with a discussion of the source.
 [1][1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4kM
 Ron & Donna
 --
   References
 1. [2]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4kM
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   2. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4kM
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Tristan von Neumann]

Thank You Ron for this very poignant post!

What can be read between the lines, and what also came up in many 
discussions I had about music:


Many people forget that music in the 16th century was not made to please 
a great mass of uneducated people, but highly educated patrons you would 
even today hardly find amongst the rich and influential people.
Therefore, a musician's aim was to make the best music, not the common 
denominator - because if he achieved this task, he would be greatly 
rewarded with a fixed income and a highly regarded position, or as in 
for example John Dowland's case, a neverending successful European tour, 
being welcome wherever you go.


Thanks for quoting Anne Smith. Her book is very informative also on the 
abilities expected from a professional musician.



Am 14.07.2018 um 17:29 schrieb Ron Andrico:

We have posted our Saturday morning quotes for today.

[1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4kn

Ron & Donna

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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Gilbert Isbin]

   VERY informative and interesting article again

   With kind regards,

   Met vriendelijke groeten,

   Bien cordialement,
   Gilbert Isbin
   [1]www.gilbertisbin.com
   [2]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   2018-04-14 17:29 GMT+02:00 Ron Andrico <[3]praelu...@hotmail.com>:

We have posted our Saturday morning quotes for today, continuing
 our
series on improvisation.
[1][4]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jN
Ron & Donna
--
 References
1. [5]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jN
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   2. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   3. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   4. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jN
   5. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jN
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Gilbert Isbin]

   Very interesting article Ron !

   With kind regards,

   Met vriendelijke groeten,

   Bien cordialement,
   Gilbert Isbin
   [1]www.gilbertisbin.com
   [2]gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   2018-04-07 19:03 GMT+02:00 Ron Andrico <[3]praelu...@hotmail.com>:

We have published our Saturday morning quotes, this week
 beginning a
look at improvisation in historical music.
[1][4]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jK
Ron & Donna
--
 References
1. [5]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jK
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.gilbertisbin.com/
   2. mailto:gilbert.is...@gmail.com
   3. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   4. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jK
   5. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jK
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A Phantazie

[Christopher Stetson]

   As others have said, thanks, Ron, for your impressively  thorough and
   informed scholarship from an insider's viewpoint.   This would have
   been unlikely to come from someone not intimately involved with the
   music.

   On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 6:05 AM, Ed Durbrow
   <[1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp> wrote:

 Thanks for your long contribution. Good luck!
 Ed Durbrow
 Saitama, Japan
 [2]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
 [3]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
 [4]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
 --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
   2. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
   3. https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
   4. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A Phantazie

[Ed Durbrow]

Thanks for your long contribution. Good luck!


Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/








--

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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A Phantazie

[G. C.]

   Huge thanks Ron, for 6 years of remarkable and insightful lute
   bloggings. A veritable treasure trove of thoughtful information for all
   of us who like to dig a little deeper.
   Best of luck with your new projects!
   G

   On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this week on a A
 Phantazie
by Alfonso Ferrabosco.
[1][2]http://wp.me/p15OyV-4dV
Ron & Donna
--
 References
1. [3]http://wp.me/p15OyV-4dV
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   2. http://wp.me/p15OyV-4dV
   3. http://wp.me/p15OyV-4dV
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A HIP score

[Mathias Rösel]

The accompaniment for all the lute songs in Bataille's prints as from 1608
were conceived for the 10c theorboed lute with renaissance tuning in A.
Mersenne explained the instrument in 1636, as explored by Ingo Negwer in his
thesis in German (Laute und Theorbe in Marin Mersennes Harmonie universelle,
Frankfurt, 2000). The rendering in staff notation is not a transposition.

The style of the accompaniment of 1608 considerably differs from the style
of the courante in Lord Herbert's lute book, which was much later written in
the broken style. Broken does not refer, in this case, to the breaking of
the parts but to the breaking of the melody. That is the characteristic
trait of that style.

In his arrangement, Ron has transposed the chanson down a fifth, but not the
accompaniment. Instead, he has written a new accompaniment along the lines
of the solo courante. And that is remarkable, indeed, for at least  two
reasons.

First, he could easily have transposed the accompaniment just as well,
putting basses up an octave again where necessary. He didn't do that,
dismissing the existing accompaniment for a new one that he wrote on his
own. All is well that ends well, one might say.

But second, the much later courante on the chanson was conceived in the
broken style. That style was used in solo music and not in accompaniment,
precisely because the melody itself is broken rhythmically. That way, the
melody is distinctly and audibly highlighted.

It may be an interesting task to study both Ron's and Bataille's
accompaniments and find out where they differ and why and to which effect.

Mathias



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag
von Matthew Daillie
Gesendet: Samstag, 15. Oktober 2016 21:11
An: Roman Turovsky; Ron Andrico; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A HIP score

On 15/10/2016 21:05, Roman Turovsky wrote:
> little squeaky lutes in A are very likely a modern anachronism, 
> considering that the majority of voices work much better with larger 
> lutes tuned a whole 3rd lower - to E, or even D.
> RT

One does not need to use a 'little squeaky lute in a' to accompany these
airs de cour (although I have had the pleasure of playing two 10-courses in
a'415 that were anything but squeaky). One should obviously use whatever
lute suits the singer.



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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A HIP score

[Roman Turovsky]

   He sings duets with Putin, so..

   RT

   On 10/15/2016 4:15 PM, John Mardinly wrote:

   If so, obviously not one Trump would molest…..

   On Oct 15, 2016, at 12:47 PM, Matthew Daillie
   <[1]dail...@club-internet.fr> wrote:

   Did she have a moustache?
   On 15/10/2016 21:46, Roman Turovsky wrote:

 the one I worked with - was happy in D.
 RT
 On 10/15/2016 3:40 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:

 On 15/10/2016 21:38, Roman Turovsky wrote:

 I've been asked the "couldn't we do it lower in E?" question too
 many times.
 RT

 You should try sopranos. The question is always: 'don't you have a
 lute with a higher pitch?'
 Matthew

   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=CwIC-g=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Eji
   z41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=Jb0
   N2NvWndrnnn4LpJesKB8pJYHhHIz_1rmUEyR-kpU=AWMcDkzFL2_TUNmlKFw_62NOYPQp
   IyrRStqg_s42gjg=

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
   EMail: [3]john.mardi...@asu.edu
   Cell: [4]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
   But don’t call the lab….I won’t be there!

   --

References

   1. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=CwIC-g=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=Jb0N2NvWndrnnn4LpJesKB8pJYHhHIz_1rmUEyR-kpU=AWMcDkzFL2_TUNmlKFw_62NOYPQpIyrRStqg_s42gjg=
   3. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   4. tel:408-921-3253

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A HIP score

[Roman Turovsky]

what are you implyin'?
RT


On 10/15/2016 3:47 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:

Did she have a moustache?

On 15/10/2016 21:46, Roman Turovsky wrote:

the one I worked with - was happy in D.
RT


On 10/15/2016 3:40 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:

On 15/10/2016 21:38, Roman Turovsky wrote:
I've been asked the "couldn't we do it lower in E?" question too 
many times.


RT


You should try sopranos. The question is always: 'don't you have a 
lute with a higher pitch?'


Matthew





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A HIP score

[John Mardinly]

   If so, obviously not one Trump would molest…..

   On Oct 15, 2016, at 12:47 PM, Matthew Daillie
   <[1]dail...@club-internet.fr> wrote:

   Did she have a moustache?
   On 15/10/2016 21:46, Roman Turovsky wrote:

 the one I worked with - was happy in D.
 RT
 On 10/15/2016 3:40 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:

 On 15/10/2016 21:38, Roman Turovsky wrote:

 I've been asked the "couldn't we do it lower in E?" question too
 many times.
 RT

 You should try sopranos. The question is always: 'don't you have a
 lute with a higher pitch?'
 Matthew

   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=CwIC-g=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Eji
   z41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=Jb0
   N2NvWndrnnn4LpJesKB8pJYHhHIz_1rmUEyR-kpU=AWMcDkzFL2_TUNmlKFw_62NOYPQp
   IyrRStqg_s42gjg=

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
   EMail: [3]john.mardi...@asu.edu
   Cell: [4]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
   But don’t call the lab….I won’t be there!

   --

References

   1. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=CwIC-g=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=Jb0N2NvWndrnnn4LpJesKB8pJYHhHIz_1rmUEyR-kpU=AWMcDkzFL2_TUNmlKFw_62NOYPQpIyrRStqg_s42gjg=
   3. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   4. tel:408-921-3253

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A HIP score

[Matthew Daillie]

Did she have a moustache?

On 15/10/2016 21:46, Roman Turovsky wrote:

the one I worked with - was happy in D.
RT


On 10/15/2016 3:40 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:

On 15/10/2016 21:38, Roman Turovsky wrote:
I've been asked the "couldn't we do it lower in E?" question too 
many times.


RT


You should try sopranos. The question is always: 'don't you have a 
lute with a higher pitch?'


Matthew





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A HIP score

[Roman Turovsky]

the one I worked with - was happy in D.
RT


On 10/15/2016 3:40 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:

On 15/10/2016 21:38, Roman Turovsky wrote:
I've been asked the "couldn't we do it lower in E?" question too many 
times.


RT


You should try sopranos. The question is always: 'don't you have a 
lute with a higher pitch?'


Matthew





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A HIP score

[Matthew Daillie]

On 15/10/2016 21:38, Roman Turovsky wrote:
I've been asked the "couldn't we do it lower in E?" question too many 
times.


RT


You should try sopranos. The question is always: 'don't you have a lute 
with a higher pitch?'


Matthew



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A HIP score

[Roman Turovsky]

I've been asked the "couldn't we do it lower in E?" question too many times.

RT


On 10/15/2016 3:10 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:

On 15/10/2016 21:05, Roman Turovsky wrote:
little squeaky lutes in A are very likely a modern anachronism, 
considering that the majority of voices work much better with larger 
lutes tuned a whole 3rd lower - to E, or even D.
RT 


One does not need to use a 'little squeaky lute in a' to accompany 
these airs de cour (although I have had the pleasure of playing two 
10-courses in a'415 that were anything but squeaky). One should 
obviously use whatever lute suits the singer.






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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A HIP score

[Matthew Daillie]

On 15/10/2016 21:05, Roman Turovsky wrote:
little squeaky lutes in A are very likely a modern anachronism, 
considering that the majority of voices work much better with larger 
lutes tuned a whole 3rd lower - to E, or even D.
RT 


One does not need to use a 'little squeaky lute in a' to accompany these 
airs de cour (although I have had the pleasure of playing two 10-courses 
in a'415 that were anything but squeaky). One should obviously use 
whatever lute suits the singer.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A HIP score

[Roman Turovsky]

little squeaky lutes in A are very likely a modern anachronism, 
considering that the majority of voices work much better with larger 
lutes tuned a whole 3rd lower - to E, or even D.

RT


On 10/15/2016 2:55 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:

On 15/10/2016 19:23, Ron Andrico wrote:

Matthew:

It's nice to know you keep up with our blog, although I expect 
that you

would direct your commentary there instead of this forum. We always
appreciate thoughtful and respectful commentary.

In your comment, you skew the point to support the idea that the 
lute
was presumed to be tuned in A.  Granted, historical reference 
pitches

have never been hard and fast, and there is absolutely no reason to
presume that A=440 or A=415 had anything to do with historical 
pitch,

particularly on lutes and other fretted or unfretted stringed
instruments.

Perhaps an excess of bile prompts your other commentary, which 
again is

a stretch just to make your points.  While it is a matter of taste,
high G is not a particularly pleasant sound to hear, particularly in
music meant for the chamber.   Read some of the source material on
vocal range and production from the era and get back to me on this
after you have informed yourself.

We chose the title "Airs de Court" for our 2005 CD, Divine Amarillis
because that is the term Besard used in his 1603 print, which 
preceded
Bataille's versions published by Ballard.  True, the term was 
applied

earlier in LeRoy's book, but Besard was a pioneer in the genre.

Now, if you have anything else you'd like to get off your chest, you
are welcome to comment on our blog rather than this forum.

RA

Ron,
As you publicise your blog entry every single Saturday on this forum, 
it only seems logical to respond on the forum.
I can assure you that I know numerous singers who can easily render G 
with ease, elegance and no shortage of emotion, all the more so if the 
instrument is in G and at a'415.
My 'court' comment was tongue in cheek but thank you for the erudite 
response.
Maybe if you spent less time criticising others and setting yourself 
up as an example to follow, I would be less keen to set the record 
straight.

Matthew



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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A HIP score

[Matthew Daillie]

On 15/10/2016 19:23, Ron Andrico wrote:

Matthew:

It's nice to know you keep up with our blog, although I expect that you
would direct your commentary there instead of this forum.  We always
appreciate thoughtful and respectful commentary.

In your comment, you skew the point to support the idea that the lute
was presumed to be tuned in A.  Granted, historical reference pitches
have never been hard and fast, and there is absolutely no reason to
presume that A=440 or A=415 had anything to do with historical pitch,
particularly on lutes and other fretted or unfretted stringed
instruments.

Perhaps an excess of bile prompts your other commentary, which again is
a stretch just to make your points.  While it is a matter of taste,
high G is not a particularly pleasant sound to hear, particularly in
music meant for the chamber.   Read some of the source material on
vocal range and production from the era and get back to me on this
after you have informed yourself.

We chose the title "Airs de Court" for our 2005 CD, Divine Amarillis
because that is the term Besard used in his 1603 print, which preceded
Bataille's versions published by Ballard.  True, the term was applied
earlier in LeRoy's book, but Besard was a pioneer in the genre.

Now, if you have anything else you'd like to get off your chest, you
are welcome to comment on our blog rather than this forum.

RA
  

Ron,
As you publicise your blog entry every single Saturday on this forum, it 
only seems logical to respond on the forum.
I can assure you that I know numerous singers who can easily render G 
with ease, elegance and no shortage of emotion, all the more so if the 
instrument is in G and at a'415.
My 'court' comment was tongue in cheek but thank you for the erudite 
response.
Maybe if you spent less time criticising others and setting yourself up 
as an example to follow, I would be less keen to set the record straight.

Matthew



To get on or off this list see list information at
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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - A HIP score

[Matthew Daillie]

   Ron,

   In the 'Saturday morning quote' you put on line today and publicised
   (as usual) on this forum, you speak of historically informed
   performance in relation to an Air de cour by Guédron entitled 'Bien
   qu'un cruel martire'. You claim that 'When the modern editor André
   Verchaly published his collection of airs, he transposed the keyboard
   transcription of the lute part to fit the key of the voice part in
   Bataille’s original print.' This is not true at all. The rendition in
   staff notation (why do you automatically think 'keyboard' when you see
   real notes rather than tablature?) is exactly what Bataille published
   in his 'Airs de differents autheurs'. If you look closely at the
   tablature, the first note for the singer is given before the time
   signature. In the piece you refer to, the note indicated is an open
   fourth course. If one assumes a lute at the nominal pitch of a', then
   the first note for the singer is a G, which is exactly what Verchaly
   has indicated, identical to Bataille's printed Air and lute. Your
   assumption of 'a lute tuned in our modern standard of “G”' is
   fallacious. These airs would have been accompanied by lutes of various
   pitches to fit the singing voice.

   The top note in the piece is a G5, hardly 'stratospheric' or
   'dog-whistle range' as you call it. We do not know what the accepted
   pitch was at the time (if indeed there was a standard pitch) but it is
   very likely that it would have been lower than modern pitch of a' at
   440. This music is commonly played at a' 415 today.

   Why do you refer to 'Airs de Court' on your CD rather than 'Airs de
   cour' ? Is there some kind of connection with a tennis match ?
   Matthew
   On 15/10/2016 16:26, Ron Andrico wrote:

   We have posted our Saturday morning quote and offer a HIP score.

   [1][1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-3wS

   Ron & Donna

   --

References

   1. [2]http://wp.me/p15OyV-3wS


   --

References

   1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-3wS
   2. http://wp.me/p15OyV-3wS


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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - The anti-lute

[howard posner]

> On Jul 16, 2016, at 7:50 AM, Ron Andrico  wrote:
> 
> The combination actually works.

Why wouldn’t it?  It’s not the first time a lute and small reed organ have 
played together.



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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - The anti-lute

[John Mardinly]

   HWell, with a bit of imagination, it sort of sounds like a
   crumhorn ensemble

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
   EMail: [1]john.mardi...@asu.edu
   Cell: [2]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
   But don't call the labI won't be there!

   On Jul 16, 2016, at 7:34 AM, Roman Turovsky <[3]r.turov...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   You might want to check out this TV program about both things together
   -
   [4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kuQZJuF_tI
   RT
   On 7/16/2016 10:27 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:

We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week featuring
 the
anti-lute.
[1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-2Y6
Ron & Donna
--
 References
1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-2Y6
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   2. tel:408-921-3253
   3. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kuQZJuF_tI

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - The anti-lute

[alexander]

Of course it works! While some lucky lutanists get a singer
girl-friend, some get stuck with an accordionist girl-friend. And what
then? You just learn to love what you have... 

alexander r.

On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 14:50:45 +
Ron Andrico  wrote:

>Thanks, Roman.  The combination actually works.
>  __



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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - The anti-lute

[Dan Winheld]

Brilliant! Roman- that really rocks; Thanks!

Dan

On 7/16/2016 7:34 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

You might want to check out this TV program about both things together -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kuQZJuF_tI

RT



On 7/16/2016 10:27 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:

We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week featuring the
anti-lute.

[1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-2Y6

Ron & Donna

--

References

1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-2Y6


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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - The anti-lute

[Roman Turovsky]

The best  part is at the 8:25 mark, of course.

RT


On 7/16/2016 10:50 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:

Thanks, Roman.  The combination actually works.
  __

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf
of Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 2:34 PM
To: Ron Andrico; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
    Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - The anti-lute

You might want to check out this TV program about both things together
-
[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kuQZJuF_tI
RT
On 7/16/2016 10:27 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:
> We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week featuring
the
> anti-lute.
>
> [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-2Y6
>
> Ron & Donna
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. [2]http://wp.me/p15OyV-2Y6
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kuQZJuF_tI
2. http://wp.me/p15OyV-2Y6
3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - The anti-lute

[Roman Turovsky]

You might want to check out this TV program about both things together -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kuQZJuF_tI

RT



On 7/16/2016 10:27 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:

We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week featuring the
anti-lute.

[1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-2Y6

Ron & Donna

--

References

1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-2Y6


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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Sixth year

[Alain]

Mary Burwell would have had no trouble at all working in the advertising 
industry today. Even though, thank goodness, in those days they did not 
have to list the side-effects.


On 05/21/2016 06:55 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:

We have posted Saturday morning quotes 6.1.
[1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-2xg

Ron & Donna

--

References

1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-2xg


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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Dante

[howard posner]

> On Feb 20, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Ron Andrico  wrote:
> 
>  Liberal, from the Latin liberalis, means ample, free or generous. 

That may be true, but “liberal education,” "liberal arts,” or “liberal studies” 
has/had a different, and more specific, meaning: “those studies which are the 
proper pursuit of a free man,” and consisted of the sciences of the quadrivium 
— music, mathematics, geometry and astronomy (or astrology; there wasn’t always 
much difference): and the three studies of the trivium — grammar, logic and 
rhetoric.  

These days it has come to mean "A major you pick in college when you don't know 
what to do with yourself."



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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Dante

[John Mardinly]

   So, if "the study of Dante is a liberal education", is it safe to
   assume that Trump, Cruz and Rubio never  studied Dante?

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
   EMail: [1]john.mardi...@asu.edu
   Cell: [2]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
   JEOL ARM 200 Lab: [3]480-727-5653
   2010F Lab: [4]480-727-5654
   Office: [5]480-965-7946
   John Cowley Center for HREM, LE-CSSS
   B134B Bateman Physical Sciences Building
   Arizona State University
   [6]PO Box 871704
   [7]Tempe, AZ 85287-1704

   On Feb 20, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Ron Andrico <[8]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

 We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this week on Dante and
 music.
 [1][9]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1NB
 Ron & Donna
 --
   References
 1. [10]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1NB
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

   1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   2. tel:408-921-3253
   3. tel:480-727-5653
   4. tel:480-727-5654
   5. tel:480-965-7946
   6. x-apple-data-detectors://6/
   7. x-apple-data-detectors://6/
   8. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   9. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1NB
  10. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1NB
  11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[Lute List]

Thanks William,
  I believe this tidbit of information came from Arthur A. Reblitz's book,
Piano Servicing, Tuning and Rebuilding.  Can't remember for sure.
I will be the first to admit that this could be mis-information also!
  Thanks again,
Tom
  
Tom Draughon
Heartistry Music
www.heartistry.com
714 9th Ave. W.
Ashland, WI  54806
715-682-9362




On Jan 18, 2016, at 1:27 PM, William Brohinsky  wrote:

> Is there a reference for these dates/numbers, especially the claim that A440 
> was 'set' in 1916 for American Standard Pitch for pianos?
> 
> In 30 years of piano tuning, I've seen many claims, but I am unaware of an 
> American organization with the power to declare standard pitch for pianos 
> operating before the International Organization for Standards (the dyslexic 
> ISO) meetings in 1938 and 1939 (dates muddied by the generally poor accuracy 
> of Groves 2), and even then, ISO had to re-affirm A440 in 1959 and 1979, 
> apparently because a lot of organizations weren't willing to give up that 
> little bit of "brightness" that tuning a few Hertz higher brings.
> 
> Scheibler, credited with the invention of tuning forks, recommended A440.0, 
> and the Deutsche Naturforscherversammlung established that as the German 
> Standard in 1834. Steinway's pitchforks indicate that they favored A454.7 in 
> London and 457.2 in NY in 1897.
> 
> The French government decreed that A435 was standard for that nation in 1859. 
> This was supposed to be a compromise between the extremes of A450, favored by 
> instrumentalists for brightness, and singers, who preferred A422. In England, 
> near the end of the 19th century, the London Royal Philharmonic Society 
> jiggered the numbers for a higher standard pitch, since France had specified 
> a specific build of oboe, playing A in a room at 59degF. They calculated that 
> a piano, tuned to that pitch, but operating at "normal" room temperature of 
> 68degF would rise to 438.9Hz,  so when 1900 rolled around, A435 and A439 were 
> standards in France and England, respectively.
> 
> Cavanaugh makes the claim that the Broadcasting industry in Europe and the US 
> pushed for an A440 standard, based on the BBC's use of a 1MHz oscillator, 
> torturously reduced to 1KHz by dividers, then multiplied by 11 and divided by 
> 25 to arrive at a stable 440Hz pitch (in a quote attributed to Llewelyn S. 
> Lloyd). He allows that the BBC's affection for this pitch standard may not 
> have had as much effect as Lloyd seems to indicate.
> 
> Generally speaking, I've found that pianos built before 1940 tend to 
> gravitate to A438 even when tuned above or below that pitch, and have read 
> numerous articles intended for piano tuners (none of which I still have) 
> claiming that before the ISO proclamation, A438 was the preferred pitch for 
> American piano makers. Whether that is true or not, I can't find any official 
> organization which selected A440 before the ISO meetings of 1938 and/or 1939.
> 
> So ... Who set A440 as standard for American Pianos in 1916?
> 
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 8:35 PM, Lute List  wrote:
> Resent without "equal" signs:
> 
> On Jan 17, 2016, at 2:09 PM, Lute List  wrote:
> 
>  I have been restoring an early square piano by Chickering
> circa 1840.
>   In my communications with other piano techs and my research,
> I have found that pitch, even in the 19th century, varied wildly.
>   The 1840 Chickering, one of the very first pianosto incorporate
> a full cast metal plate, was designed to be tuned at A 430.
> By the 1870's pitch had risen to as high as 465!
> And, of course, it was different in Europe than in the US.
>  There is a LOT of mis-information in the A 432 arguments,
> including that it was the Nazis who insisted on 440.  NOT TRUE.
> American standard pitch for pianos was set at 440 in 1916, and
> all pianos with full (not victorian) cast plates have been designed
> in the US to be tuned at A 440 ever since.
>  There has always been a quest for brighter and louder tone.
> Increasing string tension does this.  But is happens with wind
> instruments as well.  Scottish Highland Pipes were at one time
> pitched in A, and over a few hundred years have been raised to Bb.
>  So - just tune your lute 'til your (gut) 1st string breaks, all the
> while looking at a meter, then back it off 1 Hz.  I'm sure it will be
> resonant with the cosmos :)
> --
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 


--

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[wayne cripps]

Hi Tom , and everyone else

  The lute list is set up to “unpack" messages that have been "packed up"
for travel by your computer.  One system of “packing" text is called 
quoted-printable, and it uses an equals sign followed by a number to 
represent special characters and numbers.  So when you write about a 
pitch using A  440  and you computer sends it off as
quoted-printable the lute list robot interprets that as a hex number 
like D0.  If you write A 440 it will stand a better chance of getting
through.  Or you could try to set up your mail program to avoid using
any special formatting, though that could be tricky.

 Wayne


>  The 1840 Chickering, one of the very first pianos
> to incorporate a full cast metal plate, was designed to be tuned
> at AC0.  

>  There is a LOT of mis-information in the AC2 arguments,

> including that it was the Nazis who insisted on 440.  NOT TRUE.
> tuned at AD0 ever since.




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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[howard posner]

> On Jan 17, 2016, at 12:09 PM, Lute List  wrote:
> 
> American standard pitch for pianos was set at 440 in 1916

By whom, if you happen to know?



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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[Lute List]

Thanks Wayne, and apologies for my ignorance.
I'll re-send

Tom Draughon
Heartistry Music
www.heartistry.com
714 9th Ave. W.
Ashland, WI  54806
715-682-9362




On Jan 17, 2016, at 4:42 PM, wayne cripps  wrote:

> Hi Tom , and everyone else
> 
>  The lute list is set up to “unpack" messages that have been "packed up"
> for travel by your computer.  One system of “packing" text is called 
> quoted-printable, and it uses an equals sign followed by a number to 
> represent special characters and numbers.  So when you write about a 
> pitch using A  440  and you computer sends it off as
> quoted-printable the lute list robot interprets that as a hex number 
> like D0.  If you write A 440 it will stand a better chance of getting
> through.  Or you could try to set up your mail program to avoid using
> any special formatting, though that could be tricky.
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
>> The 1840 Chickering, one of the very first pianos
>> to incorporate a full cast metal plate, was designed to be tuned
>> at AC0.  
> 
>> There is a LOT of mis-information in the AC2 arguments,
> 
>> including that it was the Nazis who insisted on 440.  NOT TRUE.
>> tuned at AD0 ever since.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[Lute List]

Resent without "equal" signs:

On Jan 17, 2016, at 2:09 PM, Lute List  wrote:

 I have been restoring an early square piano by Chickering
circa 1840.
  In my communications with other piano techs and my research,
I have found that pitch, even in the 19th century, varied wildly.
  The 1840 Chickering, one of the very first pianosto incorporate
a full cast metal plate, was designed to be tuned at A 430.
By the 1870's pitch had risen to as high as 465!
And, of course, it was different in Europe than in the US.
 There is a LOT of mis-information in the A 432 arguments,
including that it was the Nazis who insisted on 440.  NOT TRUE.
American standard pitch for pianos was set at 440 in 1916, and
all pianos with full (not victorian) cast plates have been designed
in the US to be tuned at A 440 ever since.
 There has always been a quest for brighter and louder tone.
Increasing string tension does this.  But is happens with wind
instruments as well.  Scottish Highland Pipes were at one time
pitched in A, and over a few hundred years have been raised to Bb.
 So - just tune your lute 'til your (gut) 1st string breaks, all the
while looking at a meter, then back it off 1 Hz.  I'm sure it will be
resonant with the cosmos :)
--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[Leonard Williams]

A late response to this thread, but I found this discussion/article;

http://www.viewzone.com/432hertz222.html

Not all that scientific, I don't think, but there's information to think
about.

Regards,
Leonard Williams

On 12/12/15, 12:21 PM, "Edward Martin"  wrote:

>   Nice article, Ron.
>   I agree, in that there is no definitive pitch.   We seem to have
>   settled on 440 vs. 415 as standards of modern vs baroque, but what
>   about 460, or 392?   With the lute, a few sources state to tune the
>   treble to just before it breaks, and that is where one starts.
>   I am wondering, has anybody on the list read some of the arguments
>   about changing the modern pitch standard as a + 432?
>   ed
>
>   On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
>   wrote:
>
>  We have posted our Saturday morning quotations, this week on pitch
>  standards.
>  [1][2]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
>  Ron & Donna
>  --
>   References
>  1. [3]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
>   To get on or off this list see list information at
>   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>   --
>
>References
>
>   1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
>   2. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
>   3. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
>   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[Martin Shepherd]

- Original Message - 
From: "howard posner" 

To: "Martin Shepherd" 
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Saturday morning quotes - Pitch


I responded to Ron's post but I think Wordpress deleted me, so I'll say it 
here.  Having a standard "early music" pitch is historically unjustified 
but very useful in modern times, but the standard of a'=415 is ridiculous, 
being a semitone below modern pitch.  It makes mixing modern and "baroque" 
instruments impossible, it makes keyboard players (and possibly others) 
transpose by a semitone (yikes!) and thereby make unequal temperaments 
impossible, and for us lutenists it creates any number of problems.


Semitone transposition on lots of modern harpsichords in unequal temperament 
is not such a problem because the keyboards transpose: push on a lever, move 
the whole keyboard over one string, and retune.  On unequally tempered 
instruments without transposing keyboards, transposing a semitone is not all 
that hard: you just mentally substitute a different key signature, so you 
take a piece written in D major and play it in Db.  It’s a common keyboard 
skill.


If we had settled on a'=392, we could not only have avoided the 
aforementioned problems, we would also have a possibility of proper-sized 
continuo archlutes (minimum 67cm), the lute quartet would have a treble 
lute "in D" of 44cm (and other sizes accordingly) and singers of lute 
songs might be able to pronounce words properly and get their message 
across, instead of projecting their "voice" at the expense of all emotion 
and meaning.


But God help them when they have to sing low notes over an orchestra at a 
pitch 30 hertz lower than the composer intended.


Hi Howard,

Yes but the point is you do have to retune!  Of course transposition is a 
necessary skill for an accompanist, but playing in Db major instead of D 
major in an unequal temperament is a nightmare for everyone.
Last time I looked it was not normal to use a full symphony orchestra 
playing at a low pitch in order to sing lute songs, but in any case we 
mostly don't know what pitch the composer intended, and when we do, it's 
often lower than modern pitch.


M





---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus



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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[John Mardinly]

   This is hilarious!

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
   EMail: [1]john.mardi...@asu.edu
   Cell: [2]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
   Titan Lab: [3]480-727-5651
   NION UltraSTEM Lab: [4]480-727-5652
   JEOL ARM 200 Lab: [5]480-727-5653
   2010F Lab: [6]480-727-5654
   Office: [7]480-965-7946
   John Cowley Center for HREM, LE-CSSS
   B134B Bateman Physical Sciences Building
   Arizona State University
   [8]PO Box 871704
   [9]Tempe, AZ 85287-1704

   On Dec 12, 2015, at 4:17 PM, howard posner <[10]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
   wrote:

 On Dec 12, 2015, at 9:21 AM, Edward Martin
 <[11]edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote:
  I am wondering, has anybody on the list read some of the arguments
  about changing the modern pitch standard as a + 432?

   A major push for 432 came from none other than convicted mail fraud
   conspirator and 8-time fringe presidential candidate Lyndon Larouche,
   who defined "weird" in American politics until Donald Trump redefined
   it.  Here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia page on Larouche; I can't
   vouch for its accuracy in all things:

 1989: Musical interests and Verdi tuning initiative:
 LaRouche and his wife have an interest in classical music up to the
 period of Brahms. A motto of LaRouche's European Workers' Party, is
 "Think like Beethoven"; movement offices typically include a piano
 and posters of German composers, and members are known for their
 choral singing at protest events and for using satirical lyrics
 tailored to their targets.[152] LaRouche abhors popular music; he
 said in 1980, "Rock was not an accidental thing. This was done by
 people who set out in a deliberate way to subvert the United States.
 It was done by British intelligence," and wrote that the Beatles
 were "a product shaped according to British Psychological Warfare
 Division specifications."[153] LaRouche movement members have
 protested at performances of Richard Wagner's operas, denouncing
 Wagner as an anti-Semite who found favor with the Nazis, and called
 a conductor "satanic" because he played contemporary music.[154]
 In 1989 LaRouche advocated that classical orchestras should use a
 concert pitch based on A above middle C (A4) tuned to 432 Hz, which
 the Schiller Institute called the "Verdi pitch," a pitch that Verdi
 had suggested as optimal, though he also composed and conducted in
 other pitches such as the French official diapason normal of 435 Hz,
 including his Requiem in 1874.[155]
 The Schiller Institute initiative attracted support from more than
 300 opera stars, including Joan Sutherland, Placido Domingo and
 Luciano Pavarotti, who according to Opera Fanatic may or may not
 have been aware of LaRouche's politics. A spokesman for Domingo said
 Domingo had simply signed a questionnaire, had not been aware of its
 origins, and would not agree with LaRouche's politics. Renata
 Tebaldi and Piero Cappuccilli, who were running for the European
 Parliament on LaRouche's "Patriots for Italy" platform, attended
 Schiller Institute conferences as featured speakers. The discussions
 led to debates in the Italian parliament about reinstating Verdi's
 legislation. LaRouche gave an interview to National Public Radio on
 the initiative from prison. The initiative was opposed by the editor
 of Opera Fanatic, Stefan Zucker, who objected to the establishment
 of a "pitch police," and argued that LaRouche was using the issue to
 gain credibility.[156]

   Here's a 1989 story about it from the Washington Post, which goes into
   some of the arguments:
   [12]https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1989/05/27/lyndon-
   larouches-pitch-battle/756e0713-65eb-4059-90b2-037fd2f1f6e1/
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

   1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   2. tel:408-921-3253
   3. tel:480-727-5651
   4. tel:480-727-5652
   5. tel:480-727-5653
   6. tel:480-727-5654
   7. tel:480-965-7946
   8. x-apple-data-detectors://6/
   9. x-apple-data-detectors://6/
  10. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
  11. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
  12. 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1989/05/27/lyndon-larouches-pitch-battle/756e0713-65eb-4059-90b2-037fd2f1f6e1/

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[Edward Martin]

   Nice article, Ron.
   I agree, in that there is no definitive pitch.   We seem to have
   settled on 440 vs. 415 as standards of modern vs baroque, but what
   about 460, or 392?   With the lute, a few sources state to tune the
   treble to just before it breaks, and that is where one starts.
   I am wondering, has anybody on the list read some of the arguments
   about changing the modern pitch standard as a + 432?
   ed

   On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

  We have posted our Saturday morning quotations, this week on pitch
  standards.
  [1][2]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
  Ron & Donna
  --
   References
  1. [3]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   2. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
   3. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[Dan Winheld]

After wrestling with this vexed question of pitch since at least 1976 on 
lutes, vihuelas, guitars, violas da gamba- with singers, other 
instrumentalists, and- worst of all, alone by myself- attempting to 
force gut strings to go to distant extremes both high & low; to remote 
places where no gut string has gone before...   After all this, I now 
agree strongly with dwsdolc, above-


"Whatever feels good?"

YES! Whatever feels good- and sounds good, too- (not a bad thing, 
sounding good). Sometimes nylon & KF are unavoidable; forced, dire 
necessities in the so-called real world, esp. when $ are at stake. But 
at home the only demons that must be appeased are my own ears, the 
instrument/string interface, and the non-negotiable demands of the 
occasional wandering resident soprano-  "She Whose Range Requirements 
Must Be Obeyed".


Great discussion, and a fine followup to last week's "Tempus Futilious 
Gettingaway Fromus" :-D .


Dan

On 12/12/2015 5:27 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:

We have posted our Saturday morning quotations, this week on pitch
standards.
[1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB

Ron & Donna

--

References

1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[stephen arndt]

For what it's worth, some recorder makers are no longer making recorders 
pitched at 440. They have bumped the pitch up to 442. At the Von Huene 
Workshop, they told me that 442 is becoming the standard concert pitch in 
Europe.


-Original Message- 
From: Edward Martin

Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 11:21 AM
To: Ron Andrico
Cc: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

  Nice article, Ron.
  I agree, in that there is no definitive pitch.   We seem to have
  settled on 440 vs. 415 as standards of modern vs baroque, but what
  about 460, or 392?   With the lute, a few sources state to tune the
  treble to just before it breaks, and that is where one starts.
  I am wondering, has anybody on the list read some of the arguments
  about changing the modern pitch standard as a + 432?
  ed

  On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
  wrote:

 We have posted our Saturday morning quotations, this week on pitch
 standards.
 [1][2]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
 Ron & Donna
 --
  References
 1. [3]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

  --

References

  1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
  2. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
  3. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
  4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[David van Ooijen]

   >>
they told me that 442 is becoming the standard concert pitch in
   Europe.
   <<
   Ever rising. One of the modern orchestras I play with is at 446 for
   quite awhile already. But in the early music orchestras I meet anything
   from 392 (Gilles' Requiem last month) to 466 for Monteverdi. And, yes,
   Mozart and 19th century music seems to have a modern standard at 430.
   Quite a bother to have a mixed programme with a different pitch before
   and after the break. Anyway, it's good to have standards, as it makes
   life for all of us instrumentalists so much easier.
   Oh, much of the metal and steelstring-pop is at 415, for at least half
   a century already. So we'll need a double set of guitars for that
   repertoire too.
   David

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[Guy Smith]

I've been spending a lot of my time lately playing tenor sackbut in Ren loud
bands and pitch in that world has a lot of variety. A-440 is the most
common, followed by A-415, but a number of the players I know (cornetto, in
particular) also have "high pitch" instruments at A-465. I know some early
trombone players  who have A-430 instruments for classical repertoire (Egger
makes one). I've also heard of some low pitch instruments out there (A-392)
but I've never encountered one.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of stephen arndt
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 11:40 AM
To: Edward Martin; Ron Andrico
Cc: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

For what it's worth, some recorder makers are no longer making recorders
pitched at 440. They have bumped the pitch up to 442. At the Von Huene
Workshop, they told me that 442 is becoming the standard concert pitch in
Europe.

-Original Message-
From: Edward Martin
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 11:21 AM
To: Ron Andrico
Cc: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

   Nice article, Ron.
   I agree, in that there is no definitive pitch.   We seem to have
   settled on 440 vs. 415 as standards of modern vs baroque, but what
   about 460, or 392?   With the lute, a few sources state to tune the
   treble to just before it breaks, and that is where one starts.
   I am wondering, has anybody on the list read some of the arguments
   about changing the modern pitch standard as a + 432?
   ed

   On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

  We have posted our Saturday morning quotations, this week on pitch
  standards.
  [1][2]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
  Ron & Donna
  --
   References
  1. [3]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   2. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
   3. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[Martin Shepherd]

Tuning the recorder to a'=442 is perhaps a cunning way of getting around the 
problem that you can pull a recorder out but you can't blow it up, so to 
speak.  In the current climate where keyboards are mostly tuned to a'=440, 
it might help a few insufficiently warmed-up recorders to be in tune - but 
only two cents?  Crazy.


I responded to Ron's post but I think Wordpress deleted me, so I'll say it 
here.  Having a standard "early music" pitch is historically unjustified but 
very useful in modern times, but the standard of a'=415 is ridiculous, being 
a semitone below modern pitch.  It makes mixing modern and "baroque" 
instruments impossible, it makes keyboard players (and possibly others) 
transpose by a semitone (yikes!) and thereby make unequal temperaments 
impossible, and for us lutenists it creates any number of problems.


If we had settled on a'=392, we could not only have avoided the 
aforementioned problems, we would also have a possibility of proper-sized 
continuo archlutes (minimum 67cm), the lute quartet would have a treble lute 
"in D" of 44cm (and other sizes accordingly) and singers of lute songs might 
be able to pronounce words properly and get their message across, instead of 
projecting their "voice" at the expense of all emotion and meaning.  Just 
don't get me started on the sizes of historical viols and the modern 
tendency to play relatively small viols at a'=415, a procedure which 
actually requires metal-wound basses in order to work at all.  Nor, come to 
think of it, the tendency of baroque lutenists to think of their instruments 
as being "in D minor" at some notional pitch level, usually (guess what?) 
a'=415, regardless of string length - anywhere from c.65cm up to well into 
the 70s.


M



- Original Message - 
From: "stephen arndt" <stephenwar...@verizon.net>
To: "Edward Martin" <edvihuel...@gmail.com>; "Ron Andrico" 
<praelu...@hotmail.com>

Cc: "Lute List" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 8:39 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch


For what it's worth, some recorder makers are no longer making recorders 
pitched at 440. They have bumped the pitch up to 442. At the Von Huene 
Workshop, they told me that 442 is becoming the standard concert pitch in 
Europe.


-Original Message----- 
From: Edward Martin

Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 11:21 AM
To: Ron Andrico
Cc: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

  Nice article, Ron.
  I agree, in that there is no definitive pitch.   We seem to have
  settled on 440 vs. 415 as standards of modern vs baroque, but what
  about 460, or 392?   With the lute, a few sources state to tune the
  treble to just before it breaks, and that is where one starts.
  I am wondering, has anybody on the list read some of the arguments
  about changing the modern pitch standard as a + 432?
  ed

  On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
  wrote:

 We have posted our Saturday morning quotations, this week on pitch
 standards.
 [1][2]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
 Ron & Donna
 --
  References
 1. [3]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

  --

References

  1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
  2. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
  3. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1qB
  4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html





---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[howard posner]

> On Dec 12, 2015, at 9:21 AM, Edward Martin  wrote:
> 
>   I am wondering, has anybody on the list read some of the arguments
>   about changing the modern pitch standard as a + 432?

A major push for 432 came from none other than convicted mail fraud conspirator 
and 8-time fringe presidential candidate Lyndon Larouche, who defined “weird” 
in American politics until Donald Trump redefined it.  Here’s an excerpt from 
the Wikipedia page on Larouche; I can’t vouch for its accuracy in all things:

> 1989: Musical interests and Verdi tuning initiative:
> 
> LaRouche and his wife have an interest in classical music up to the period of 
> Brahms. A motto of LaRouche's European Workers' Party, is "Think like 
> Beethoven"; movement offices typically include a piano and posters of German 
> composers, and members are known for their choral singing at protest events 
> and for using satirical lyrics tailored to their targets.[152] LaRouche 
> abhors popular music; he said in 1980, "Rock was not an accidental thing. 
> This was done by people who set out in a deliberate way to subvert the United 
> States. It was done by British intelligence," and wrote that the Beatles were 
> "a product shaped according to British Psychological Warfare Division 
> specifications."[153] LaRouche movement members have protested at 
> performances of Richard Wagner's operas, denouncing Wagner as an anti-Semite 
> who found favor with the Nazis, and called a conductor "satanic" because he 
> played contemporary music.[154]
> 
> In 1989 LaRouche advocated that classical orchestras should use a concert 
> pitch based on A above middle C (A4) tuned to 432 Hz, which the Schiller 
> Institute called the "Verdi pitch," a pitch that Verdi had suggested as 
> optimal, though he also composed and conducted in other pitches such as the 
> French official diapason normal of 435 Hz, including his Requiem in 1874.[155]
> 
> The Schiller Institute initiative attracted support from more than 300 opera 
> stars, including Joan Sutherland, Plácido Domingo and Luciano Pavarotti, who 
> according to Opera Fanatic may or may not have been aware of LaRouche's 
> politics. A spokesman for Domingo said Domingo had simply signed a 
> questionnaire, had not been aware of its origins, and would not agree with 
> LaRouche's politics. Renata Tebaldi and Piero Cappuccilli, who were running 
> for the European Parliament on LaRouche's "Patriots for Italy" platform, 
> attended Schiller Institute conferences as featured speakers. The discussions 
> led to debates in the Italian parliament about reinstating Verdi's 
> legislation. LaRouche gave an interview to National Public Radio on the 
> initiative from prison. The initiative was opposed by the editor of Opera 
> Fanatic, Stefan Zucker, who objected to the establishment of a "pitch 
> police," and argued that LaRouche was using the issue to gain 
> credibility.[156]

Here’s a 1989 story about it from the Washington Post, which goes into some of 
the arguments:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1989/05/27/lyndon-larouches-pitch-battle/756e0713-65eb-4059-90b2-037fd2f1f6e1/




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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[howard posner]

> On Dec 12, 2015, at 12:51 PM, Ron Andrico  wrote:
> 
> Nevertheless, most lutenists play solo,

Most amateur lutenists.



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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch

[G. C.]

   Yes, the pro's have connections

   --


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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Tempo and pitch

[howard posner]

> On Dec 5, 2015, at 12:39 PM, Ron Andrico  wrote:
> 
> The "thinking error" in my estimation lies in assuming that players ever 
> discussed their reference pitch at all.  Instruments were tuned to where they 
> felt and sounded right or, in the case of accompanying instruments, where the 
> voices sounded best.   Today, we have to discuss to death the quality of "A", 
> for the benefit of keyboardists and fixed0pitch instrumentalists, which is 
> utter nonsense and ahistorical.

Because there were no keyboards or fixed-pitch instruments until 1959?



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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Julian Bream

[John Mardinly]

   Finally read it-MOST enjoyable! Thank you. The link to Bream and
   Grappelli was most appreciated.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
   EMail: [1]john.mardi...@asu.edu
   Cell: [2]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
   Titan Lab: [3]480-727-5651
   NION UltraSTEM Lab: [4]480-727-5652
   JEOL ARM 200 Lab: [5]480-727-5653
   2010F Lab: [6]480-727-5654
   Office: [7]480-965-7946
   John Cowley Center for HREM, LE-CSSS
   B134B Bateman Physical Sciences Building
   Arizona State University
   [8]PO Box 871704
   [9]Tempe, AZ 85287-1704

   On Nov 28, 2015, at 4:07 PM, Charles Mokotoff <[10]mokot...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   Fantastic and timeless commentary. Thank you for sharing!

 On Nov 28, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ron Andrico
 <[11]praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
  We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this week from a 1960
  interview with Julian Bream.
  [1][12]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1lq
  Ron & Donna
  --
 References
  1. [13]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1lq
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   2. tel:408-921-3253
   3. tel:480-727-5651
   4. tel:480-727-5652
   5. tel:480-727-5653
   6. tel:480-727-5654
   7. tel:480-965-7946
   8. x-apple-data-detectors://6/
   9. x-apple-data-detectors://6/
  10. mailto:mokot...@gmail.com
  11. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
  12. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1lq
  13. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1lq
  14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Tempo and pitch

[David van Ooijen]

   >>

   1) instruments are tuned to A=415,

   [a|]

   When strings are slackened a bit they do not project quite as well to
   the ears of those who were first trained on modern instruments

   <<

   Thinking error.

   We do not slacken strings but choose the appropriate diameters for the
   desired tensions.

   De VisA(c)e did not slacken his strings to play at 392Hz nor did
   Monteverdi's theorbo players tighten theirs to play 465Hz. They choose
   their strings to match their desired string tensions in the prevalent
   pitch. As do we.

   If you like a bright, dazzling sound you choose a high string tension,
   no matter what the pitch. If you prefer a sonorous, warm and relaxed
   sound you choose a low string tension. Pitch does not  cause the
   difference in sound, the string choice of the player does.

   David

   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
   On 5 December 2015 at 19:20, Ron Andrico <[3]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this week on Tempo
 and
Pitch.
[1][4]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1nn
Ron & Donna
--
 References
1. [5]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1nn
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   3. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   4. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1nn
   5. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1nn
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Julian Bream

[Charles Mokotoff]

Fantastic and timeless commentary. Thank you for sharing! 



> On Nov 28, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ron Andrico  wrote:
> 
>   We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this week from a 1960
>   interview with Julian Bream.
>   [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1lq
> 
>   Ron & Donna
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1lq
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Dowland leads the way

[howard posner]

> On Nov 7, 2015, at 4:53 AM, Ron Andrico  wrote:
> 
>   We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, Dowland leads the way.
>   [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1

That particular link goes to Ron's 28 September 2010 post. The link at the 
bottom of your email goes to the one about the Big D.



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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - continuum

[stephen arndt]

   Thank you, Gary! I certainly could not have hoped for a more precise
   answer to my question. What a wonderful resource this page is. The
   entire lute community is in your debt.

   From: [1]Gary Boye
   Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 1:07 PM
   To: [2]stephen arndt
   Cc: [3]Ron Andrico ; [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - continuum

   Stephen,

   My page on the 16th-century sources is at least a partial answer to
   your question:

   [5]http://applications.library.appstate.edu/music/lute/C16/contentlst.h
   tml

   I didn't go beyond 1600, but I think we'd all agree that the heyday of
   the vocal intabulation was about over for the lute by then.

   Gary

   On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 1:59 PM, stephen arndt
   <[6]stephenwar...@verizon.net> wrote:

 Ron writes: ". . .  the bulk of published lute music was vocal
 polyphony reworked and arranged for the instrument."
 I have recently been wondering and have been on the verge of asking
 what percentage of the total lute repertoire intabulations of vocal
 works make up . Does anyone happen to know?
 -Original Message- From: Ron Andrico
 Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:31 AM
 To: [7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Subject: [LUTE] Saturday morning quotes - continuum
   We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this week - lutes and
 a
   historical continuum.
   [1][8]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1i0
   Ron & Donna
   --
 References
   1. [9]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1i0
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


   --
   Gary R. Boye, M.S.L.S., Ph.D.
   Erneston Music Library
   Appalachian State University

   --

References

   1. mailto:boy...@appstate.edu
   2. mailto:stephenwar...@verizon.net
   3. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. http://applications.library.appstate.edu/music/lute/C16/contentlst.html
   6. mailto:stephenwar...@verizon.net
   7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   8. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1i0
   9. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1i0
  10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - continuum

[Gary Boye]

   Stephen,
   My page on the 16th-century sources is at least a partial answer to
   your question:
   [1]http://applications.library.appstate.edu/music/lute/C16/contentlst.h
   tml
   I didn't go beyond 1600, but I think we'd all agree that the heyday of
   the vocal intabulation was about over for the lute by then.
   Gary

   On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 1:59 PM, stephen arndt
   <[2]stephenwar...@verizon.net> wrote:

 Ron writes: ". . .   the bulk of published lute music was vocal
 polyphony reworked and arranged for the instrument."
 I have recently been wondering and have been on the verge of asking
 what percentage of the total lute repertoire intabulations of vocal
 works make up . Does anyone happen to know?
 -Original Message- From: Ron Andrico
 Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:31 AM
 To: [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Subject: [LUTE] Saturday morning quotes - continuum
   We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this week - lutes and
 a
   historical continuum.
   [1][4]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1i0
   Ron & Donna
   --
 References
   1. [5]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1i0
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --
   Gary R. Boye, M.S.L.S., Ph.D.
   Erneston Music Library
   Appalachian State University

   --

References

   1. http://applications.library.appstate.edu/music/lute/C16/contentlst.html
   2. mailto:stephenwar...@verizon.net
   3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1i0
   5. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1i0
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - continuum

[stephen arndt]

Ron writes: ". . .  the bulk of published lute music was vocal polyphony 
reworked and arranged for the instrument."


I have recently been wondering and have been on the verge of asking what 
percentage of the total lute repertoire intabulations of vocal works make up 
. Does anyone happen to know?


-Original Message- 
From: Ron Andrico

Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:31 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Saturday morning quotes - continuum

  We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this week - lutes and a
  historical continuum.
  [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1i0
  Ron & Donna

  --

References

  1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1i0


To get on or off this list see list information at
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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Philip Van Wilder

[G. C.]

   Well, Wilder could have gotten a present (the pipe) from a captain that
   he cherished and therefore wore on the painting. A picture tells many
   stories that should not lead to easy quick conclusions
   =NOT=
   Regards
   G.

   --


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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Lutes and brains

[adS]

Now I remember.

Isn't he the guy who played Dowland with the Karamazov brothers?

Rainer



On 29.08.2015 22:30, Ron Andrico wrote:

Ouch.
 Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 12:57:48 -0700
 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 From: howardpos...@ca.rr.com
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Lutes and brains


 
  On Aug 29, 2015, at 11:20 AM, Rainer rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
wrote:
 
  I have no idea who Gordon Matthew Thomas Sumner is.

 Oddly enough, Sting said something similar. His 1985 documentary
Bring on the Night has footage of a press conference in which some
British press person prefaces a question by addressing him as Gordon,
as if they were on a first-name basis.

 Sting replied along the lines of Who is this Gordon person? As the
would-be questioner tried to point out that Gordon was, after all, his
real name, Sting replied, My wife calls me Sting. My children call me
Sting.



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Lutes and brains

[howard posner]

 
 On Aug 29, 2015, at 11:20 AM, Rainer rads.bera_g...@t-online.de wrote:
 
 I have no idea who Gordon Matthew Thomas Sumner is.

Oddly enough, Sting said something similar.  His 1985 documentary “Bring on the 
Night” has footage of a press conference in which some British press person 
prefaces a question by addressing him as “Gordon,”   as if they were on a 
first-name basis. 

Sting replied along the lines of “Who is this Gordon person?”  As the would-be 
questioner tried to point out that Gordon was, after all, his real name, Sting 
replied, “My wife calls me Sting.  My children call me Sting.



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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Lutes and brains

[Rainer]

I have no idea who Gordon Matthew Thomas Sumner is.

However: Probably almost no lute players nor mathematicians know that the great 
mathematician Serge Lang was a lute player and was a friend of Julian Bream.


Unfortunately his Books (about mathematics) are quite difficult to read :(


Rainer adS


On 29.08.2015 06:48, Ron Andrico wrote:

We have posted our Saturday quotations, this week on the habits of
famous intelligensia.
[1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1fx
Ron  Donna

--

References

1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-1fx


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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia

[gary]

I think it was Ronald Reagan who first referred to sitting on our 
laurels not realizing how painful that can be. Laurels have thorns. I 
think the phrase is rest on our laurels.


I heard another version of the same joke:

A businessman, a lawyer and a musician are waiting at the pearly gates. 
Peter says to the businessman, 'What did you do for humanity?' The 
businessman replies, 'I gave a lot of money to charity and supported the 
arts.' Peter says, 'Okay, you can come in.' Turning to the lawyer, he 
says, 'What did you do for humanity?' The lawyer replies, I did a lot 
of pro bono work and civil rights work.' Peter says, 'Okay, you can come 
in.' He then says to the musician, What did you do for humanity? The 
musician scratches his head and says, I practiced real hard and played 
the best tunes I could think of playing. Peter says,Well, okay you can 
come in, but go around back, passed the garbage cans, through the 
kitchen, and don't touch the Hors D'ouvres (sic) on the way in.'


Gary


On 2015-03-29 22:15, Ed Durbrow wrote:
On Mar 30, 2015, at 1:59 AM, David van Ooijen 
davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote:



  David - musician = not smart with money by definition



Reminds me of the joke:
Saint Peter is checking ID's at the Pearly Gates, and first comes a
Texan. Tell me, what have you done in life? says St. Peter.

The Texan says, Well, I struck oil, so I became rich, but I didn't
sit on my laurels--I divided all my money among my entire family in my
will, so our descendants are all set for about three generations.

St. Peter says, That's quite something. Come on in. Next!

The second guy in line has been listening, so he says, I struck it
big in the stock market, but I didn't selfishly just provide for my
own like that Texan guy. I donated five million to Save the Children.

Wonderful! says Saint Peter. Come in. Who's next?

The third guy has been listening, and says timidly with a downcast
look, Well, I only made five thousand dollars in my entire lifetime.

Goodness! says St. Peter. What instrument did you play?




Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/





--

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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia

[Geoff Gaherty]

On 2015-03-30 5:29 AM, gary wrote:

Peter says,Well, okay you can come in, but go around back, passed the
garbage cans, through the kitchen, and don't touch the Hors D'ouvres
(sic) on the way in.'


Been there, done that!  Which is why, when I got married, I paid the 
Toronto Consort to play my our wedding music AND invited them all to our 
reception afterward.  Of course, it helped that they were all old 
friends of mine.


Geoff

--
Geoff Gaherty
Foxmead Observatory
Coldwater, Ontario, Canada
http://www.gaherty.ca
http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/



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[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia

[Dan Winheld]

Hear hear over here as well- Just last September, I did a 3 hour gig 
with a harpist for a wedding rehearsal dinner held in a winery castle 
(imported  rebuilt- stone by stone, from Italy). They eventually fed 
us, but NO WINE! In NAPA COUNTY California!


In 1977 we played at the Mexican Embassy in Washington, D.C. The amount 
of food that was served  wasted was staggering. We saw the substantial 
remains of what looked like a two meter salmon get hauled back to the 
garbage area, and when all was over we were handed a few bucks to go out 
to a restaurant.


Dan


On 3/30/2015 5:52 AM, Geoff Gaherty wrote:

On 2015-03-30 5:29 AM, gary wrote:

Peter says,Well, okay you can come in, but go around back, passed the
garbage cans, through the kitchen, and don't touch the Hors D'ouvres
(sic) on the way in.'


Been there, done that!  Which is why, when I got married, I paid the 
Toronto Consort to play my our wedding music AND invited them all to 
our reception afterward.  Of course, it helped that they were all old 
friends of mine.


Geoff





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia

[Bruno Figueiredo]

   I didn't know working in the US was so hard for musicians! Glad I'm
   down here...

   2015-03-30 12:14 GMT-03:00 Dan Winheld [1]dwinh...@lmi.net:

 Hear hear over here as well- Just last September, I did a 3 hour gig
 with a harpist for a wedding rehearsal dinner held in a winery
 castle (imported  rebuilt- stone by stone, from Italy). They
 eventually fed us, but NO WINE! In NAPA COUNTY California!
 In 1977 we played at the Mexican Embassy in Washington, D.C. The
 amount of food that was served  wasted was staggering. We saw the
 substantial remains of what looked like a two meter salmon get
 hauled back to the garbage area, and when all was over we were
 handed a few bucks to go out to a restaurant.
 Dan
 On 3/30/2015 5:52 AM, Geoff Gaherty wrote:

 On 2015-03-30 5:29 AM, gary wrote:

 Peter says,Well, okay you can come in, but go around back, passed
 the
 garbage cans, through the kitchen, and don't touch the Hors D'ouvres
 (sic) on the way in.'

 Been there, done that!A  Which is why, when I got married, I paid
 the Toronto Consort to play my our wedding music AND invited them
 all to our reception afterward.A  Of course, it helped that they
 were all old friends of mine.
 Geoff

   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --
   Bruno Figueiredo
   A
   Pesquisador autA'nomo da prA!tica e interpretaAS:A-L-o
   historicamente informada no alaA-ode e teorba.
   Doutor em PrA!ticas InterpretativasA pela
   Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.

   --

References

   1. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia

[Ed Durbrow]

On Mar 30, 2015, at 1:59 AM, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote:

   David - musician = not smart with money by definition


Reminds me of the joke:
Saint Peter is checking ID's at the Pearly Gates, and first comes a Texan. 
Tell me, what have you done in life? says St. Peter.

The Texan says, Well, I struck oil, so I became rich, but I didn't sit on my 
laurels--I divided all my money among my entire family in my will, so our 
descendants are all set for about three generations.

St. Peter says, That's quite something. Come on in. Next!

The second guy in line has been listening, so he says, I struck it big in the 
stock market, but I didn't selfishly just provide for my own like that Texan 
guy. I donated five million to Save the Children.

Wonderful! says Saint Peter. Come in. Who's next?

The third guy has been listening, and says timidly with a downcast look, Well, 
I only made five thousand dollars in my entire lifetime.

Goodness! says St. Peter. What instrument did you play?




Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/





--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia

[Alain]

This message by Rainer only reflects his own personal opinion and only 
engages his responsibility. Many people are known to disagree. Some of 
them fairly smart.

Alain

On 03/29/2015 02:45 AM, Rainer wrote:

A misunderstanding:

On 28.03.2015 23:22, Ron Andrico wrote:
Thanks, Rainer, for reminding us that not all governments behave like 
the US,

and Europeans actually take the ECB seriously.


Nobody does. The German Bundesbank was independent and never cared 
what the German government said -never.


The infamous ECB is currently buying loans for more than 60 billion 
(American billions) Euros every month in order to rescue countries 
like Greece, Portugal, Italy and even France...


The Euro certainly was the most stupid invention of all times :(

Rainer




Sure, the Federal Reserve is
supposed to be an independent entity with government oversight, but 
it simply
doesn't happen that way here where regular folks absorb those pesky 
negative
externalities, and bankers set and change the rules at will. Sadly, 
the average

lutenist is not too big to fail, else I'd be demanding my $800 billion.

RA

  Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 19:56:53 +0100
  To: praelu...@hotmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  From: rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia
 
  Dear Andrico,
 
  you write Or do people today realize that money is merely paper that
  governments just print and allow to be distributed when and to 
whom they please?

 
  You certainly know that this is nonsense.
 
  No government in Europe is allowed to print money. Unfortunately, 
the ECB is

  (sort of) :(
 
  Rainer
 
 
  On 28.03.2015 19:11, Ron Andrico wrote:
   We have posted our late Saturday quotes, this week on Ile 
fantazies de

   Joskin.
   [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G
   Ron  Donna
  
   --
  
   References
  
   1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G
  
  
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  
 
 

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia

[adS]

Thank you very much for your fairly smart e-mail.

Rainer

On 29.03.2015 17:49, Alain wrote:

This message by Rainer only reflects his own personal opinion and only engages
his responsibility. Many people are known to disagree. Some of them fairly 
smart.
Alain

On 03/29/2015 02:45 AM, Rainer wrote:

A misunderstanding:

On 28.03.2015 23:22, Ron Andrico wrote:

Thanks, Rainer, for reminding us that not all governments behave like the US,
and Europeans actually take the ECB seriously.


Nobody does. The German Bundesbank was independent and never cared what the
German government said -never.

The infamous ECB is currently buying loans for more than 60 billion (American
billions) Euros every month in order to rescue countries like Greece,
Portugal, Italy and even France...

The Euro certainly was the most stupid invention of all times :(

Rainer




Sure, the Federal Reserve is
supposed to be an independent entity with government oversight, but it simply
doesn't happen that way here where regular folks absorb those pesky negative
externalities, and bankers set and change the rules at will. Sadly, the average
lutenist is not too big to fail, else I'd be demanding my $800 billion.

RA

  Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 19:56:53 +0100
  To: praelu...@hotmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  From: rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia
 
  Dear Andrico,
 
  you write Or do people today realize that money is merely paper that
  governments just print and allow to be distributed when and to whom they
please?
 
  You certainly know that this is nonsense.
 
  No government in Europe is allowed to print money. Unfortunately, the ECB is
  (sort of) :(
 
  Rainer
 
 
  On 28.03.2015 19:11, Ron Andrico wrote:
   We have posted our late Saturday quotes, this week on Ile fantazies de
   Joskin.
   [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G
   Ron  Donna
  
   --
  
   References
  
   1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G
  
  
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  
 
 

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia

[David van Ooijen]

   I always understood the people who are so called smart with money got
   us in trouble in the first place.A

   David - musician = not smart with money by definition
   On Sunday, March 29, 2015, adS [1]rainer.aus-dem-spr...@gmx.de wrote:

 Thank you very much for your fairly smart e-mail.
 Rainer
 On 29.03.2015 17:49, Alain wrote:

 This message by Rainer only reflects his own personal opinion and
 only engages
 his responsibility. Many people are known to disagree. Some of them
 fairly smart.
 Alain
 On 03/29/2015 02:45 AM, Rainer wrote:

 A misunderstanding:
 On 28.03.2015 23:22, Ron Andrico wrote:

 Thanks, Rainer, for reminding us that not all governments behave
 like the US,
 and Europeans actually take the ECB seriously.

 Nobody does. The German Bundesbank was independent and never cared
 what the
 German government said -never.
 The infamous ECB is currently buying loans for more than 60 billion
 (American
 billions) Euros every month in order to rescue countries like
 Greece,
 Portugal, Italy and even France...
 The Euro certainly was the most stupid invention of all times :(
 Rainer

 Sure, the Federal Reserve is
 supposed to be an independent entity with government oversight, but
 it simply
 doesn't happen that way here where regular folks absorb those pesky
 negative
 externalities, and bankers set and change the rules at will. Sadly,
 the average
 lutenist is not too big to fail, else I'd be demanding my $800
 billion.
 RA
 A  Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 19:56:53 +0100
 A  To: praelu...@hotmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 A  From: rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
 A  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia
 A 
 A  Dear Andrico,
 A 
 A  you write Or do people today realize that money is merely paper
 that
 A  governments just print and allow to be distributed when and to
 whom they
 please?
 A 
 A  You certainly know that this is nonsense.
 A 
 A  No government in Europe is allowed to print money.
 Unfortunately, the ECB is
 A  (sort of) :(
 A 
 A  Rainer
 A 
 A 
 A  On 28.03.2015 19:11, Ron Andrico wrote:
 A   We have posted our late Saturday quotes, this week on Ile
 fantazies de
 A   Joskin.
 A   [1][2]http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G
 A   Ron  Donna
 A  
 A   --
 A  
 A   References
 A  
 A   1. [3]http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G
 A  
 A  
 A   To get on or off this list see list information at
 A   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 A  
 A 
 A 

   --

   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [5]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [6]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***

   --

References

   1. mailto:rainer.aus-dem-spr...@gmx.de
   2. http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G
   3. http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   5. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   6. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia

[Rainer]

A misunderstanding:

On 28.03.2015 23:22, Ron Andrico wrote:

Thanks, Rainer, for reminding us that not all governments behave like the US,
and Europeans actually take the ECB seriously.


Nobody does. The German Bundesbank was independent and never cared what the 
German government said -never.


The infamous ECB is currently buying loans for more than 60 billion (American 
billions) Euros every month in order to rescue countries like Greece, Portugal, 
Italy and even France...


The Euro certainly was the most stupid invention of all times :(

Rainer




Sure, the Federal Reserve is
supposed to be an independent entity with government oversight, but it simply
doesn't happen that way here where regular folks absorb those pesky negative
externalities, and bankers set and change the rules at will.  Sadly, the average
lutenist is not too big to fail, else I'd be demanding my $800 billion.

RA

  Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 19:56:53 +0100
  To: praelu...@hotmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  From: rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia
 
  Dear Andrico,
 
  you write Or do people today realize that money is merely paper that
  governments just print and allow to be distributed when and to whom they 
please?
 
  You certainly know that this is nonsense.
 
  No government in Europe is allowed to print money. Unfortunately, the ECB is
  (sort of) :(
 
  Rainer
 
 
  On 28.03.2015 19:11, Ron Andrico wrote:
   We have posted our late Saturday quotes, this week on Ile fantazies de
   Joskin.
   [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G
   Ron  Donna
  
   --
  
   References
  
   1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G
  
  
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  
 
 

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia

[Rainer]

Dear Andrico,

you write Or do people today realize that money is merely paper that 
governments just print and allow to be distributed when and to whom they please?


You certainly know that this is nonsense.

No government in Europe is allowed to print money. Unfortunately, the ECB is 
(sort of) :(


Rainer


On 28.03.2015 19:11, Ron Andrico wrote:

We have posted our late Saturday quotes, this week on Ile fantazies de
Joskin.
[1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G
Ron  Donna

--

References

1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia

[Ron Andrico]

   Thanks, Rainer, for reminding us that not all governments behave like
   the US, and Europeans actually take the ECB seriously.  Sure, the
   Federal Reserve is supposed to be an independent entity with government
   oversight, but it simply doesn't happen that way here where regular
   folks absorb those pesky negative externalities, and bankers set and
   change the rules at will.  Sadly, the average lutenist is not too big
   to fail, else I'd be demanding my $800 billion.
   RA
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 19:56:53 +0100
To: praelu...@hotmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
From: rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Fantasia
   
Dear Andrico,
   
you write Or do people today realize that money is merely paper that
governments just print and allow to be distributed when and to whom
   they please?
   
You certainly know that this is nonsense.
   
No government in Europe is allowed to print money. Unfortunately, the
   ECB is
(sort of) :(
   
Rainer
   
   
On 28.03.2015 19:11, Ron Andrico wrote:
 We have posted our late Saturday quotes, this week on Ile
   fantazies de
 Joskin.
 [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G
 Ron  Donna

 --

 References

 1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-18G


 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   
   

   --

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

[doug asherman]

I believe that Douglas Alton Smith (author of A History of the Lute 
from Antiquity to the Renaissance) also plays banjo.


Gustav Leonhardt played the banjo? -- that's a surprise!

On 3/15/15 1:50 AM, Rob MacKillop wrote:

I think it more pertinent to this forum to mention the number of lute
players who play the banjo.A
Ron Andrico - Ron plays in the clawhammer style, where the index (or
middle) finger of the right hand strikes downwards onto individual
strings. One of the greatest Old Time banjo players, R. D. Lunceford,
had this to say of Ron: Ron is one of the finest musicians I've had
the privilege of playing with.A  A great fiddler, singer, and
insightful and intuitive guitar player, not to mention a fine old-time
banjoista. We know Ron and Donna as Mignarda, but check out their
alter egos, Eulalie:A [1]http://www.eulalie-blue.com
Tom Berghan - Tom plays with Stephen Stubbs (the lute player and
guitarist) in a 19th-century banjo-led ensemble. Tom is a wonderful
lute player, and a fantastic banjo player.
James Tyler - a brilliant tenor banjoist. Check out this video from the
BBC programme, The Good Old Days:A [2]https://youtu.be/sZgCpx8BN78A
Me - Check outA [3]http://robmackillop.net/banjo/A and my YouTube banjo
playlist:A [4]https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL422073C567EEF259A
 - where I play gut-strung fretless 19th-century banjo, 19th-century
fretted banjo, and 1920s tenor and plectrum banjos.A
Pat Stefanelli - Pat is French. She plays the theorboA professionally,
and is a first-rate accompanist. She specialises in accompaniment on
both theorbo and banjo. Her husband is Eric Stefanelli, who I rate as
the finest maker of classic banjos - copies of fingerstyle banjos from
1890 to 1930. They both live in France. Eric is a great player. Here
they are playing together on two instruments made by
Eric:A [5]http://[6]youtube.com/watch?v=[7]CCIfanCQxVsA
Ray Nurse - the Canadian lute player started his musical life as a
bluegrass banjo player
Gustav Leonhardt - yes, THAT Gustav Leonhardt. According to Tom
Berghan, Old Gusty informed him he was really into bluegrass, and toyed
with a banjo when he had the time.
There are probably more.A
Rob MacKillop
Edinburgh

On 15 March 2015 at 08:02, gary [8]magg...@sonic.net wrote:

  I had the privilege of seeing George Van Eps play in duet with Tony
  Ricci while on his last California tour. I went to see him with my
  friend, Eddie Duran, who is also a master jazz guitarist. Van Eps
  was amazing. I felt sorry for Tony Ricci who is an amazing jazz
  guitarist in his own right. The audience was there to see Van Eps
  and when Tony would play, everybody was just waiting for George to
  play again. They took a break and Van Eps, who knew Eddie Duran,
  came over to our table. Eddie had been recording the concert on his
  walkman and, when George came to our table, Eddie shoved his mic in
  George's face and said, Who do you listen to? as a joke. George
  immediately went into his shtick saying with all seriousness, I
  don't listen to guitarists, I listen to piano players... He was
  fond of referring to the guitar as a lap piano. I've been on the
  first ten pages of Harmonic Mechanisms, Vol. I for the last twenty
  years. There are some great videos of George playing on youtube.
  Gary
  On 2015-03-14 15:06, Rob MacKillop wrote:

  There's a link on my website, Dan:
  [9]http://robmackillop.net/george-van-eps-method-for-guitar/
  Rob
  [10]www.robmackillop.net

  On 14 Mar 2015, at 21:30, Dan Winheld [11]dwinh...@lmi.net wrote:

Alright, alright- I'm not sayin' nuthin- but I never knew G. van Eps
had a method; is it easily found/avialable via the google? He's a hero
of mine because of the 7 string business. Love my 7 string
steel-string, and am annoyed that my classical is only 6.
DAN

  On 3/14/2015 12:27 PM, Rob MacKillop wrote:
  Can I call a halt to this now? I appreciate it, but enough already!
  Everyone get back to work...
  Rob
  [12]www.robmackillop.net

  On 14 Mar 2015, at 19:15, Edward Martin [13]edvihuel...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  A  Ron,
  A  That was a tremendous tribute to Rob, ad I cannot think of a
  person
  A  more deserving of it.AA  I visited Rob for a few days last
  summer, and
  A  he was enthusiastic, kind, a wonderful person and fantastic
  musician.A
  A  I cannot say enough good things about him.
  A  ed
  A  On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Christopher Stetson
  A  [1][14]christophertstet...@gmail.com wrote:
  A  AA  A Thanks, Ron, for your observations, and a hearty
  confirmation of
  A  all
  A  AA  A you say about Rob.
  A  AA  A Be well, everyone, and keep playing.
  A  AA  A Chris.
  A  

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

[Albert Reyerman]

   One more contribution by Rob,
   available form TREE EDITION

   Francesco Geminiani (1687-1762)

   The Art of Playing the Guitar or Cittra (Edinburgh, 1760)

   Introduction by Rob MacKillop.

   35.- Euros


   Facsimile edition of this important publication for the 18th-century
   wire-strung guittar or cittern, or English Guitar, with unison violin,
   and a continuo line for keyboard and cello.

   The cello part sometimes plays an independent line, with chords and
   counterpoint.

   Geminiani was keen to develop the guittar beyond C Major,

   presenting short suites of pieces in C, Cm, D, Dm, E, Em, F, Fm, G, Gm
   and A.

   The guittar part is in numerical tablature, much like modern guitar
   tab.


   TREE EDITION

   [1]www.tree-edition.com


   Send your order to

   [2]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de
TREE  EDITION
Albert Reyerman
Finkenberg 89
23558 Luebeck
Germany
[3]albertreyer...@kabelmail.de
[4]http://www.tree-edition.com
++49(0)451 899 78 48

Find even more music books at
[5]http://tree-edition.magix.net/public/

Besuchen Sie auch die Seite
[6]http://laute-und-Musik.de



   Am 14.03.2015 um 17:14 schrieb Rockford Mjos:

I also raise my glass to Rob -- to his musicianship and countless contributions!

(Though I'm not sure what a reeking lum might be.)

-- Rocky

On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:51 AM, Ron Andrico [7]praelu...@hotmail.com wrote:


  We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week from the Burwell
  manuscript extolling the virtues of a particular musician.
  [1][8]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  Ron  Donna

  --

References

  1. [9]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186


To get on or off this list see list information at
[10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

[Rob MacKillop]

   I think it more pertinent to this forum to mention the number of lute
   players who play the banjo.A
   Ron Andrico - Ron plays in the clawhammer style, where the index (or
   middle) finger of the right hand strikes downwards onto individual
   strings. One of the greatest Old Time banjo players, R. D. Lunceford,
   had this to say of Ron: Ron is one of the finest musicians I've had
   the privilege of playing with.A  A great fiddler, singer, and
   insightful and intuitive guitar player, not to mention a fine old-time
   banjoista. We know Ron and Donna as Mignarda, but check out their
   alter egos, Eulalie:A [1]http://www.eulalie-blue.com
   Tom Berghan - Tom plays with Stephen Stubbs (the lute player and
   guitarist) in a 19th-century banjo-led ensemble. Tom is a wonderful
   lute player, and a fantastic banjo player.
   James Tyler - a brilliant tenor banjoist. Check out this video from the
   BBC programme, The Good Old Days:A [2]https://youtu.be/sZgCpx8BN78A
   Me - Check outA [3]http://robmackillop.net/banjo/A and my YouTube banjo
   playlist:A [4]https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL422073C567EEF259A
- where I play gut-strung fretless 19th-century banjo, 19th-century
   fretted banjo, and 1920s tenor and plectrum banjos.A
   Pat Stefanelli - Pat is French. She plays the theorboA professionally,
   and is a first-rate accompanist. She specialises in accompaniment on
   both theorbo and banjo. Her husband is Eric Stefanelli, who I rate as
   the finest maker of classic banjos - copies of fingerstyle banjos from
   1890 to 1930. They both live in France. Eric is a great player. Here
   they are playing together on two instruments made by
   Eric:A [5]http://[6]youtube.com/watch?v=[7]CCIfanCQxVsA
   Ray Nurse - the Canadian lute player started his musical life as a
   bluegrass banjo player
   Gustav Leonhardt - yes, THAT Gustav Leonhardt. According to Tom
   Berghan, Old Gusty informed him he was really into bluegrass, and toyed
   with a banjo when he had the time.
   There are probably more.A
   Rob MacKillop
   Edinburgh

   On 15 March 2015 at 08:02, gary [8]magg...@sonic.net wrote:

 I had the privilege of seeing George Van Eps play in duet with Tony
 Ricci while on his last California tour. I went to see him with my
 friend, Eddie Duran, who is also a master jazz guitarist. Van Eps
 was amazing. I felt sorry for Tony Ricci who is an amazing jazz
 guitarist in his own right. The audience was there to see Van Eps
 and when Tony would play, everybody was just waiting for George to
 play again. They took a break and Van Eps, who knew Eddie Duran,
 came over to our table. Eddie had been recording the concert on his
 walkman and, when George came to our table, Eddie shoved his mic in
 George's face and said, Who do you listen to? as a joke. George
 immediately went into his shtick saying with all seriousness, I
 don't listen to guitarists, I listen to piano players... He was
 fond of referring to the guitar as a lap piano. I've been on the
 first ten pages of Harmonic Mechanisms, Vol. I for the last twenty
 years. There are some great videos of George playing on youtube.
 Gary
 On 2015-03-14 15:06, Rob MacKillop wrote:

 There's a link on my website, Dan:
 [9]http://robmackillop.net/george-van-eps-method-for-guitar/
 Rob
 [10]www.robmackillop.net

 On 14 Mar 2015, at 21:30, Dan Winheld [11]dwinh...@lmi.net wrote:

   Alright, alright- I'm not sayin' nuthin- but I never knew G. van Eps
   had a method; is it easily found/avialable via the google? He's a hero
   of mine because of the 7 string business. Love my 7 string
   steel-string, and am annoyed that my classical is only 6.
   DAN

 On 3/14/2015 12:27 PM, Rob MacKillop wrote:
 Can I call a halt to this now? I appreciate it, but enough already!
 Everyone get back to work...
 Rob
 [12]www.robmackillop.net

 On 14 Mar 2015, at 19:15, Edward Martin [13]edvihuel...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 A  Ron,
 A  That was a tremendous tribute to Rob, ad I cannot think of a
 person
 A  more deserving of it.AA  I visited Rob for a few days last
 summer, and
 A  he was enthusiastic, kind, a wonderful person and fantastic
 musician.A
 A  I cannot say enough good things about him.
 A  ed
 A  On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Christopher Stetson
 A  [1][14]christophertstet...@gmail.com wrote:
 A  AA  A Thanks, Ron, for your observations, and a hearty
 confirmation of
 A  all
 A  AA  A you say about Rob.
 A  AA  A Be well, everyone, and keep playing.
 A  AA  A Chris.
 A  AA  A On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Rob MacKillop
 A  AA  A [1][2][15]robmackil...@gmail.com wrote:
 A  AA  AA  A Ha. Thanks to Ron for that surprise. Right back at you,
 sir!
 A  AA  AA  A Lang may your lum reek - long may there be smoke coming
 from
 A  your
 A  AA  AA  A 

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

[Lex van Sante]

Robby Faverey is an ace classical guitarist and baroque lute player with whom I 
have had the privilege to study.
He is also playing South American folk instruments and old style gut strung 
banjo. He has also played the Sarod. 
He has made his own cello banjo's and enjoys playing the Bach cello suites on 
them. 
More recently he has turned his attention to the viol.
Another multi-instrumentalist pur sang.

Lex van Sante
Leeuwarden


Op 15 mrt 2015, om 09:50 heeft Rob MacKillop het volgende geschreven:

   I think it more pertinent to this forum to mention the number of lute
   players who play the banjo.A
   Ron Andrico - Ron plays in the clawhammer style, where the index (or
   middle) finger of the right hand strikes downwards onto individual
   strings. One of the greatest Old Time banjo players, R. D. Lunceford,
   had this to say of Ron: Ron is one of the finest musicians I've had
   the privilege of playing with.A  A great fiddler, singer, and
   insightful and intuitive guitar player, not to mention a fine old-time
   banjoista. We know Ron and Donna as Mignarda, but check out their
   alter egos, Eulalie:A [1]http://www.eulalie-blue.com
   Tom Berghan - Tom plays with Stephen Stubbs (the lute player and
   guitarist) in a 19th-century banjo-led ensemble. Tom is a wonderful
   lute player, and a fantastic banjo player.
   James Tyler - a brilliant tenor banjoist. Check out this video from the
   BBC programme, The Good Old Days:A [2]https://youtu.be/sZgCpx8BN78A
   Me - Check outA [3]http://robmackillop.net/banjo/A and my YouTube banjo
   playlist:A [4]https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL422073C567EEF259A
- where I play gut-strung fretless 19th-century banjo, 19th-century
   fretted banjo, and 1920s tenor and plectrum banjos.A
   Pat Stefanelli - Pat is French. She plays the theorboA professionally,
   and is a first-rate accompanist. She specialises in accompaniment on
   both theorbo and banjo. Her husband is Eric Stefanelli, who I rate as
   the finest maker of classic banjos - copies of fingerstyle banjos from
   1890 to 1930. They both live in France. Eric is a great player. Here
   they are playing together on two instruments made by
   Eric:A [5]http://[6]youtube.com/watch?v=[7]CCIfanCQxVsA
   Ray Nurse - the Canadian lute player started his musical life as a
   bluegrass banjo player
   Gustav Leonhardt - yes, THAT Gustav Leonhardt. According to Tom
   Berghan, Old Gusty informed him he was really into bluegrass, and toyed
   with a banjo when he had the time.
   There are probably more.A
   Rob MacKillop
   Edinburgh
 
   On 15 March 2015 at 08:02, gary [8]magg...@sonic.net wrote:
 
 I had the privilege of seeing George Van Eps play in duet with Tony
 Ricci while on his last California tour. I went to see him with my
 friend, Eddie Duran, who is also a master jazz guitarist. Van Eps
 was amazing. I felt sorry for Tony Ricci who is an amazing jazz
 guitarist in his own right. The audience was there to see Van Eps
 and when Tony would play, everybody was just waiting for George to
 play again. They took a break and Van Eps, who knew Eddie Duran,
 came over to our table. Eddie had been recording the concert on his
 walkman and, when George came to our table, Eddie shoved his mic in
 George's face and said, Who do you listen to? as a joke. George
 immediately went into his shtick saying with all seriousness, I
 don't listen to guitarists, I listen to piano players... He was
 fond of referring to the guitar as a lap piano. I've been on the
 first ten pages of Harmonic Mechanisms, Vol. I for the last twenty
 years. There are some great videos of George playing on youtube.
 Gary
 On 2015-03-14 15:06, Rob MacKillop wrote:
 
 There's a link on my website, Dan:
 [9]http://robmackillop.net/george-van-eps-method-for-guitar/
 Rob
 [10]www.robmackillop.net
 
 On 14 Mar 2015, at 21:30, Dan Winheld [11]dwinh...@lmi.net wrote:
 
   Alright, alright- I'm not sayin' nuthin- but I never knew G. van Eps
   had a method; is it easily found/avialable via the google? He's a hero
   of mine because of the 7 string business. Love my 7 string
   steel-string, and am annoyed that my classical is only 6.
   DAN
 
 On 3/14/2015 12:27 PM, Rob MacKillop wrote:
 Can I call a halt to this now? I appreciate it, but enough already!
 Everyone get back to work...
 Rob
 [12]www.robmackillop.net
 
 On 14 Mar 2015, at 19:15, Edward Martin [13]edvihuel...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 A  Ron,
 A  That was a tremendous tribute to Rob, ad I cannot think of a
 person
 A  more deserving of it.AA  I visited Rob for a few days last
 summer, and
 A  he was enthusiastic, kind, a wonderful person and fantastic
 musician.A
 A  I cannot say enough good things about him.
 A  ed
 A  On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Christopher Stetson
 A  [1][14]christophertstet...@gmail.com wrote:
 

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

[Edward Martin]

   Ron,
   That was a tremendous tribute to Rob, ad I cannot think of a person
   more deserving of it.A  I visited Rob for a few days last summer, and
   he was enthusiastic, kind, a wonderful person and fantastic musician.A
   I cannot say enough good things about him.
   ed

   On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Christopher Stetson
   [1]christophertstet...@gmail.com wrote:

   A  A Thanks, Ron, for your observations, and a hearty confirmation of
   all
   A  A you say about Rob.
   A  A Be well, everyone, and keep playing.
   A  A Chris.
   A  A On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Rob MacKillop
   A  A [1][2]robmackil...@gmail.com wrote:
   A  A  A Ha. Thanks to Ron for that surprise. Right back at you, sir!
   A  A  A Lang may your lum reek - long may there be smoke coming from
   your
   A  A  A chimney :-)
   A  A  A Rob
   A  A  A [2][3]www.robmackillop.net
   A  A  On 14 Mar 2015, at 16:14, Rockford Mjos
   [3][4]rockype...@comcast.net
   A  A wrote:
   A  A 
   A  A  I also raise my glass to Rob a to his musicianship and countless
   A  A contributions!
   A  A 
   A  A  (Though I'm not sure what a reeking lum might be.)
   A  A 
   A  A  a Rocky
   A  A 
   A  A  On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:51 AM, Ron Andrico
   [4][5]praelu...@hotmail.com
   A  A wrote:
   A  A 
   A  A AA  We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week from
   the
   A  A Burwell
   A  A AA  manuscript extolling the virtues of a particular musician.
   A  A AA  [1][5][6]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A AA  Ron  Donna
   A  A 
   A  A AA  --
   A  A 
   A  A  References
   A  A 
   A  A AA  1. [6][7]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A 
   A  A 
   A  A  To get on or off this list see list information at
   A  A  [7][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   A  A 
   A  A 
   A  A 
   A  A --
   References
   A  A 1. mailto:[9]robmackil...@gmail.com
   A  A 2. [10]http://www.robmackillop.net/
   A  A 3. mailto:[11]rockype...@comcast.net
   A  A 4. mailto:[12]praelu...@hotmail.com
   A  A 5. [13]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A 6. [14]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A 7. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.robmackillop.net/
   4. mailto:rockype...@comcast.net
   5. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   6. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   7. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   9. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
  10. http://www.robmackillop.net/
  11. mailto:rockype...@comcast.net
  12. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
  13. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  14. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

[Dan Winheld]

Alright, alright- I'm not sayin' nuthin- but I never knew G. van Eps had 
a method; is it easily found/avialable via the google? He's a hero of 
mine because of the 7 string business. Love my 7 string steel-string, 
and am annoyed that my classical is only 6.


DAN

On 3/14/2015 12:27 PM, Rob MacKillop wrote:

Can I call a halt to this now? I appreciate it, but enough already!

Everyone get back to work...

Rob

www.robmackillop.net


On 14 Mar 2015, at 19:15, Edward Martin edvihuel...@gmail.com wrote:

   Ron,
   That was a tremendous tribute to Rob, ad I cannot think of a person
   more deserving of it.A  I visited Rob for a few days last summer, and
   he was enthusiastic, kind, a wonderful person and fantastic musician.A
   I cannot say enough good things about him.
   ed

   On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Christopher Stetson
   [1]christophertstet...@gmail.com wrote:

   A  A Thanks, Ron, for your observations, and a hearty confirmation of
   all
   A  A you say about Rob.
   A  A Be well, everyone, and keep playing.
   A  A Chris.
   A  A On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Rob MacKillop
   A  A [1][2]robmackil...@gmail.com wrote:
   A  A  A Ha. Thanks to Ron for that surprise. Right back at you, sir!
   A  A  A Lang may your lum reek - long may there be smoke coming from
   your
   A  A  A chimney :-)
   A  A  A Rob
   A  A  A [2][3]www.robmackillop.net
   A  A  On 14 Mar 2015, at 16:14, Rockford Mjos
   [3][4]rockype...@comcast.net
   A  A wrote:
   A  A 
   A  A  I also raise my glass to Rob a to his musicianship and countless
   A  A contributions!
   A  A 
   A  A  (Though I'm not sure what a reeking lum might be.)
   A  A 
   A  A  a Rocky
   A  A 
   A  A  On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:51 AM, Ron Andrico
   [4][5]praelu...@hotmail.com
   A  A wrote:
   A  A 
   A  A AA  We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week from
   the
   A  A Burwell
   A  A AA  manuscript extolling the virtues of a particular musician.
   A  A AA  [1][5][6]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A AA  Ron  Donna
   A  A 
   A  A AA  --
   A  A 
   A  A  References
   A  A 
   A  A AA  1. [6][7]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A 
   A  A 
   A  A  To get on or off this list see list information at
   A  A  [7][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   A  A 
   A  A 
   A  A 
   A  A --
   References
   A  A 1. mailto:[9]robmackil...@gmail.com
   A  A 2. [10]http://www.robmackillop.net/
   A  A 3. mailto:[11]rockype...@comcast.net
   A  A 4. mailto:[12]praelu...@hotmail.com
   A  A 5. [13]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A 6. [14]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A 7. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.robmackillop.net/
   4. mailto:rockype...@comcast.net
   5. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   6. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   7. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   9. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
  10. http://www.robmackillop.net/
  11. mailto:rockype...@comcast.net
  12. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
  13. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  14. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

[Monica Hall]

Well - I only just read the message so forgive me if I just say that Rob is 
a great

musician and wonderfully supportive of other peoples' efforts.
Monica


- Original Message - 
From: Rob MacKillop robmackil...@gmail.com

To: Edward Martin edvihuel...@gmail.com
Cc: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 7:27 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality



Can I call a halt to this now? I appreciate it, but enough already!

Everyone get back to work...

Rob

www.robmackillop.net


On 14 Mar 2015, at 19:15, Edward Martin edvihuel...@gmail.com wrote:

  Ron,
  That was a tremendous tribute to Rob, ad I cannot think of a person
  more deserving of it.A  I visited Rob for a few days last summer, and
  he was enthusiastic, kind, a wonderful person and fantastic musician.A
  I cannot say enough good things about him.
  ed

  On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Christopher Stetson
  [1]christophertstet...@gmail.com wrote:

  A  A Thanks, Ron, for your observations, and a hearty confirmation of
  all
  A  A you say about Rob.
  A  A Be well, everyone, and keep playing.
  A  A Chris.
  A  A On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Rob MacKillop
  A  A [1][2]robmackil...@gmail.com wrote:
  A  A  A Ha. Thanks to Ron for that surprise. Right back at you, sir!
  A  A  A Lang may your lum reek - long may there be smoke coming from
  your
  A  A  A chimney :-)
  A  A  A Rob
  A  A  A [2][3]www.robmackillop.net
  A  A  On 14 Mar 2015, at 16:14, Rockford Mjos
  [3][4]rockype...@comcast.net
  A  A wrote:
  A  A 
  A  A  I also raise my glass to Rob a to his musicianship and countless
  A  A contributions!
  A  A 
  A  A  (Though I'm not sure what a reeking lum might be.)
  A  A 
  A  A  a Rocky
  A  A 
  A  A  On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:51 AM, Ron Andrico
  [4][5]praelu...@hotmail.com
  A  A wrote:
  A  A 
  A  A AA  We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week from
  the
  A  A Burwell
  A  A AA  manuscript extolling the virtues of a particular musician.
  A  A AA  [1][5][6]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  A  A AA  Ron  Donna
  A  A 
  A  A AA  --
  A  A 
  A  A  References
  A  A 
  A  A AA  1. [6][7]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  A  A 
  A  A 
  A  A  To get on or off this list see list information at
  A  A  [7][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  A  A 
  A  A 
  A  A 
  A  A --
  References
  A  A 1. mailto:[9]robmackil...@gmail.com
  A  A 2. [10]http://www.robmackillop.net/
  A  A 3. mailto:[11]rockype...@comcast.net
  A  A 4. mailto:[12]praelu...@hotmail.com
  A  A 5. [13]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  A  A 6. [14]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  A  A 7. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

  --

References

  1. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
  2. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
  3. http://www.robmackillop.net/
  4. mailto:rockype...@comcast.net
  5. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
  6. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  7. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  9. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
 10. http://www.robmackillop.net/
 11. mailto:rockype...@comcast.net
 12. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
 13. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
 14. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
 15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

[Rob MacKillop]

There's a link on my website, Dan:

http://robmackillop.net/george-van-eps-method-for-guitar/

Rob

www.robmackillop.net 

 On 14 Mar 2015, at 21:30, Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net wrote:
 
 Alright, alright- I'm not sayin' nuthin- but I never knew G. van Eps had a 
 method; is it easily found/avialable via the google? He's a hero of mine 
 because of the 7 string business. Love my 7 string steel-string, and am 
 annoyed that my classical is only 6.
 
 DAN
 
 On 3/14/2015 12:27 PM, Rob MacKillop wrote:
 Can I call a halt to this now? I appreciate it, but enough already!
 
 Everyone get back to work...
 
 Rob
 
 www.robmackillop.net
 
 On 14 Mar 2015, at 19:15, Edward Martin edvihuel...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Ron,
   That was a tremendous tribute to Rob, ad I cannot think of a person
   more deserving of it.A  I visited Rob for a few days last summer, and
   he was enthusiastic, kind, a wonderful person and fantastic musician.A
   I cannot say enough good things about him.
   ed
 
   On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Christopher Stetson
   [1]christophertstet...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   A  A Thanks, Ron, for your observations, and a hearty confirmation of
   all
   A  A you say about Rob.
   A  A Be well, everyone, and keep playing.
   A  A Chris.
   A  A On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Rob MacKillop
   A  A [1][2]robmackil...@gmail.com wrote:
   A  A  A Ha. Thanks to Ron for that surprise. Right back at you, sir!
   A  A  A Lang may your lum reek - long may there be smoke coming from
   your
   A  A  A chimney :-)
   A  A  A Rob
   A  A  A [2][3]www.robmackillop.net
   A  A  On 14 Mar 2015, at 16:14, Rockford Mjos
   [3][4]rockype...@comcast.net
   A  A wrote:
   A  A 
   A  A  I also raise my glass to Rob a to his musicianship and countless
   A  A contributions!
   A  A 
   A  A  (Though I'm not sure what a reeking lum might be.)
   A  A 
   A  A  a Rocky
   A  A 
   A  A  On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:51 AM, Ron Andrico
   [4][5]praelu...@hotmail.com
   A  A wrote:
   A  A 
   A  A AA  We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week from
   the
   A  A Burwell
   A  A AA  manuscript extolling the virtues of a particular musician.
   A  A AA  [1][5][6]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A AA  Ron  Donna
   A  A 
   A  A AA  --
   A  A 
   A  A  References
   A  A 
   A  A AA  1. [6][7]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A 
   A  A 
   A  A  To get on or off this list see list information at
   A  A  [7][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   A  A 
   A  A 
   A  A 
   A  A --
   References
   A  A 1. mailto:[9]robmackil...@gmail.com
   A  A 2. [10]http://www.robmackillop.net/
   A  A 3. mailto:[11]rockype...@comcast.net
   A  A 4. mailto:[12]praelu...@hotmail.com
   A  A 5. [13]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A 6. [14]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A 7. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
   --
 
 References
 
   1. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.robmackillop.net/
   4. mailto:rockype...@comcast.net
   5. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   6. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   7. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   9. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
  10. http://www.robmackillop.net/
  11. mailto:rockype...@comcast.net
  12. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
  13. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  14. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

[Rob MacKillop]

Can I call a halt to this now? I appreciate it, but enough already!

Everyone get back to work...

Rob

www.robmackillop.net 

 On 14 Mar 2015, at 19:15, Edward Martin edvihuel...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Ron,
   That was a tremendous tribute to Rob, ad I cannot think of a person
   more deserving of it.A  I visited Rob for a few days last summer, and
   he was enthusiastic, kind, a wonderful person and fantastic musician.A
   I cannot say enough good things about him.
   ed
 
   On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Christopher Stetson
   [1]christophertstet...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   A  A Thanks, Ron, for your observations, and a hearty confirmation of
   all
   A  A you say about Rob.
   A  A Be well, everyone, and keep playing.
   A  A Chris.
   A  A On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Rob MacKillop
   A  A [1][2]robmackil...@gmail.com wrote:
   A  A  A Ha. Thanks to Ron for that surprise. Right back at you, sir!
   A  A  A Lang may your lum reek - long may there be smoke coming from
   your
   A  A  A chimney :-)
   A  A  A Rob
   A  A  A [2][3]www.robmackillop.net
   A  A  On 14 Mar 2015, at 16:14, Rockford Mjos
   [3][4]rockype...@comcast.net
   A  A wrote:
   A  A 
   A  A  I also raise my glass to Rob a to his musicianship and countless
   A  A contributions!
   A  A 
   A  A  (Though I'm not sure what a reeking lum might be.)
   A  A 
   A  A  a Rocky
   A  A 
   A  A  On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:51 AM, Ron Andrico
   [4][5]praelu...@hotmail.com
   A  A wrote:
   A  A 
   A  A AA  We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week from
   the
   A  A Burwell
   A  A AA  manuscript extolling the virtues of a particular musician.
   A  A AA  [1][5][6]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A AA  Ron  Donna
   A  A 
   A  A AA  --
   A  A 
   A  A  References
   A  A 
   A  A AA  1. [6][7]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A 
   A  A 
   A  A  To get on or off this list see list information at
   A  A  [7][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   A  A 
   A  A 
   A  A 
   A  A --
   References
   A  A 1. mailto:[9]robmackil...@gmail.com
   A  A 2. [10]http://www.robmackillop.net/
   A  A 3. mailto:[11]rockype...@comcast.net
   A  A 4. mailto:[12]praelu...@hotmail.com
   A  A 5. [13]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A 6. [14]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  A 7. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
   --
 
 References
 
   1. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.robmackillop.net/
   4. mailto:rockype...@comcast.net
   5. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   6. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   7. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   9. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
  10. http://www.robmackillop.net/
  11. mailto:rockype...@comcast.net
  12. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
  13. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  14. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

[David Smith]

Check out: http://www.djangobooks.com/Category/guitar_ebooks

It has a copy of the George Van Eps method you can purchase as well as many
other interesting items.

Regards
David

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of Dan Winheld
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 2:31 PM
To: Rob MacKillop; Ron Andrico
Cc: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

Alright, alright- I'm not sayin' nuthin- but I never knew G. van Eps had a
method; is it easily found/avialable via the google? He's a hero of mine
because of the 7 string business. Love my 7 string steel-string, and am
annoyed that my classical is only 6.

DAN

On 3/14/2015 12:27 PM, Rob MacKillop wrote:
 Can I call a halt to this now? I appreciate it, but enough already!

 Everyone get back to work...

 Rob

 www.robmackillop.net

 On 14 Mar 2015, at 19:15, Edward Martin edvihuel...@gmail.com wrote:

Ron,
That was a tremendous tribute to Rob, ad I cannot think of a person
more deserving of it.A  I visited Rob for a few days last summer, and
he was enthusiastic, kind, a wonderful person and fantastic musician.A
I cannot say enough good things about him.
ed

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Christopher Stetson
[1]christophertstet...@gmail.com wrote:

A  A Thanks, Ron, for your observations, and a hearty confirmation of
all
A  A you say about Rob.
A  A Be well, everyone, and keep playing.
A  A Chris.
A  A On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Rob MacKillop
A  A [1][2]robmackil...@gmail.com wrote:
A  A  A Ha. Thanks to Ron for that surprise. Right back at you, sir!
A  A  A Lang may your lum reek - long may there be smoke coming from
your
A  A  A chimney :-)
A  A  A Rob
A  A  A [2][3]www.robmackillop.net
A  A  On 14 Mar 2015, at 16:14, Rockford Mjos
[3][4]rockype...@comcast.net
A  A wrote:
A  A 
A  A  I also raise my glass to Rob a to his musicianship and
countless
A  A contributions!
A  A 
A  A  (Though I'm not sure what a reeking lum might be.)
A  A 
A  A  a Rocky
A  A 
A  A  On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:51 AM, Ron Andrico
[4][5]praelu...@hotmail.com
A  A wrote:
A  A 
A  A AA  We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week from
the
A  A Burwell
A  A AA  manuscript extolling the virtues of a particular musician.
A  A AA  [1][5][6]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
A  A AA  Ron  Donna
A  A 
A  A AA  --
A  A 
A  A  References
A  A 
A  A AA  1. [6][7]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
A  A 
A  A 
A  A  To get on or off this list see list information at
A  A  [7][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
A  A 
A  A 
A  A 
A  A --
References
A  A 1. mailto:[9]robmackil...@gmail.com
A  A 2. [10]http://www.robmackillop.net/
A  A 3. mailto:[11]rockype...@comcast.net
A  A 4. mailto:[12]praelu...@hotmail.com
A  A 5. [13]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
A  A 6. [14]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
A  A 7. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

 References

1. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
2. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
3. http://www.robmackillop.net/
4. mailto:rockype...@comcast.net
5. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
6. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
7. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
9. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
   10. http://www.robmackillop.net/
   11. mailto:rockype...@comcast.net
   12. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   13. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   14. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

[Christopher Stetson]

   Thanks, Ron, for your observations, and a hearty confirmation of all
   you say about Rob.
   Be well, everyone, and keep playing.
   Chris.

   On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Rob MacKillop
   [1]robmackil...@gmail.com wrote:

 Ha. Thanks to Ron for that surprise. Right back at you, sir!
 Lang may your lum reek - long may there be smoke coming from your
 chimney :-)
 Rob
 [2]www.robmackillop.net

On 14 Mar 2015, at 16:14, Rockford Mjos [3]rockype...@comcast.net
   wrote:
   
I also raise my glass to Rob a to his musicianship and countless
   contributions!
   
(Though I'm not sure what a reeking lum might be.)
   
a Rocky
   
On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:51 AM, Ron Andrico [4]praelu...@hotmail.com
   wrote:
   
   A  We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week from the
   Burwell
   A  manuscript extolling the virtues of a particular musician.
   A  [1][5]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   A  Ron  Donna
   
   A  --
   
References
   
   A  1. [6]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   
   
To get on or off this list see list information at
[7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   
   
   

   --

References

   1. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.robmackillop.net/
   3. mailto:rockype...@comcast.net
   4. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   5. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   6. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

[Rockford Mjos]

I also raise my glass to Rob — to his musicianship and countless contributions!

(Though I’m not sure what a reeking lum might be.)

— Rocky

On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:51 AM, Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com wrote:

   We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week from the Burwell
   manuscript extolling the virtues of a particular musician.
   [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
   Ron  Donna
 
   --
 
 References
 
   1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - musicality

[Rob MacKillop]

Ha. Thanks to Ron for that surprise. Right back at you, sir!

Lang may your lum reek - long may there be smoke coming from your chimney :-)

Rob

www.robmackillop.net 

 On 14 Mar 2015, at 16:14, Rockford Mjos rockype...@comcast.net wrote:
 
 I also raise my glass to Rob — to his musicianship and countless 
 contributions!
 
 (Though I’m not sure what a reeking lum might be.)
 
 — Rocky
 
 On Mar 14, 2015, at 9:51 AM, Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
  We have posted our Saturday morning quote, this week from the Burwell
  manuscript extolling the virtues of a particular musician.
  [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
  Ron  Donna
 
  --
 
 References
 
  1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-186
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 
 

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Narcissiscm

[David Rastall]

“...The organization of American lutenists was dominated by an aggregation of 
costumed role-playing narcissists whose behavior was astoundingly juvenile when 
they were gathered together in one place.  Seminars were little more than a fan 
club experience, rather than an educational opportunity, and ensemble playing 
was simply not in the picture.

Hmmm, let’s see…which particular individual does that description remind me 
of?

DR


 On Jan 24, 2015, at 12:34 PM, Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
   Saturday post is up. Ouch.
   [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-16H
   Ron  Donna
 
   --
 
 References
 
   1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-16H
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Attention

[Christopher Wilke]

Concentration and focus are extremely important aspects of both learning and 
performance. I make it a point to always -

Hey! There's a squirrel outside my window!!! A, it's s cute.

Where was I? Oh yeah. Taboubli's good.





Hope you have a great day ;-)

Chris

Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
www.christopherwilke.com


On Sat, 4/26/14, Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Subject: [LUTE] Saturday morning quotes - Attention
 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Saturday, April 26, 2014, 9:11 AM
 
    We have posted our
 Saturday morning quotes - advice on concentration
    and attention span from Grocheio and
 Dowland.
    [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-113
    Ron  Donna
 
    --
 
 References
 
    1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-113
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - rewriting history

[willsam...@yahoo.co.uk]

   Dear Ron and Donna. Beautifully argued. In fact I could almost smell
   'the odor of defeat' :D .

   Bill Samson

   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
 __

   From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com;
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;
   Subject: [LUTE] Saturday morning quotes - rewriting history
   Sent: Sat, Mar 1, 2014 3:00:55 PM
 We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, following up with
 observations on historical continuo practice.
 [1][2]http://wp.me/p15OyV-XN
 Ron  Donna
 --
   References
 1. [3]http://wp.me/p15OyV-XN
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://uk.overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android
   2. http://wp.me/p15OyV-XN
   3. http://wp.me/p15OyV-XN
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[David van Ooijen]

Thanks, well-spoken.

David

On 21 July 2012 08:55, Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com wrote:
We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this week more on loud
versus quiet.
[1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-sG
Ron  Donna

--

 References

Visible links
1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-sG

Hidden links:
2. http://http://wp.me/p15OyV-sG


 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



-- 
***
David van Ooijen
davidvanooi...@gmail.com
www.davidvanooijen.nl
***

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Monica Hall]

Thanks for this latest...! Very interesting.   I have to say that in my 
experience it is the staff in these establishments who like piped music 
especially young men.   To hell with the customers!


I am pleased to report that at a  recent concert in Hyde Park featuring Paul 
McCartney and Bruce Springsteen the organizer turned off the sound system at 
10.30 p.m. sharp to comply with Westminster's health and safety 
requirements.  Not a minute too soon either.  This has sparked some 
controversy but it not only disturbs the residents but ruins the park.


On the other hand the tube station which I travel from regularly (Caledonian 
Road) plays classical music - to deter local youth from congregating there 
and causing trouble and it seems to work!   It's nice to have a few bars of 
Mozart as one waits for the lift and on Maundy Thursday we were actually 
treated to a little Palestrina!   Whoever choses it is obviously on the 
ball!


Monica

- Original Message - 
From: Ron Andrico praelu...@hotmail.com

To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 7:55 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Saturday morning quotes



  We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, this week more on loud
  versus quiet.
  [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-sG
  Ron  Donna

  --

References

  Visible links
  1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-sG

  Hidden links:
  2. http://http://wp.me/p15OyV-sG


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 

[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes

[Stephen Stubbs]

   On 7/13/2012 11:46 PM, Ron Andrico wrote:

   We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, Francesco and the 21st
   century music biz.
   [1][1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-sa
   Ron  Donna


   Hello Ron,
   On another list, I posted about the Ancient Greeks and their belief
   that music can be used to *cause* a desired emotion in the audience, by
   set down formulas (cookbook engineering).  To the Ancient Greeks music
   was not an art, but a science with defined laws of cause and effect.
   Here's my reference to a book written around 300 to 400 AD:
   On Music in Three Books, by Aristides Quintilianus
   Translation, with Introduction, Commentary, and Annotations by Thomas J
   Mathiesen
   Yale University Press, copyright 1983
   New Haven and London
   ISBN: 0-300-02893-8
   Best,
   The Other Stephen Stubbs
   Champaign, IL   USA
   --

References

   1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-sa


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html