Re: beamer workflow

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2015-12-17 1:28 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Munch :

> In fact, it is as if a more appropriate feature to enclose a frame was a
> custom inset, instead of a custom paragraph style with nesting. At the
> very least it sounds like an issue that requires some more thinking and
> some choices to make...
>

We seriously considered this, but the custom inset has too mucu drawbacks
(for instance when it comes to outliner reordering).

Please refer to the archives, I do not have time now to elaborate.

Jürgen



>
>
> Guillaume
>
>
>

Re: beamer workflow

[Guillaume Munch]

Le 15/12/2015 14:58, Edwin Leuven a écrit :

On 12 Nov 2015, at 13:38, Jürgen Spitzmüller > wrote:

2015-11-12 10:43 GMT+01:00 Edwin Leuven:

but even so, perhaps we should consider the behaviour that we have
with itemize:

 preserves indent, and  on an empty itemize
decreases indent

we could do the same with nesting no?

i think that would be natural


I agree.


what about the attached?


depth.diff


diff --git a/src/Text.cpp b/src/Text.cpp
index 80babde..e1fd93e 100644
--- a/src/Text.cpp
+++ b/src/Text.cpp
@@ -781,7 +781,8 @@ void Text::breakParagraph(Cursor & cur, bool inverse_logic)
cpar.eraseChar(cur.pos(), cur.buffer()->params().track_changes);

// What should the layout for the new paragraph be?
-   bool keep_layout = layout.isEnvironment()
+   int const depth = cur.paragraph().params().depth();
+   bool keep_layout = layout.isEnvironment() || depth>0
|| (layout.isParagraph() && layout.parbreak_is_newline);
if (inverse_logic)
keep_layout = !keep_layout;



I gave it a test. Thanks, we definitely need something to solve these
issues with Beamer.

A few remaining issues (I don't know whether this relates to the patch
but it is along the same lines):

* The following now reintroduce themselves when pressing enter instead
of switching back to Standard: Frame Repeat, Frame Title, Frame Subtitle
Frame, Column, Pause, Title, Subtitle, Author, Insitute, Date, etc. In
fact, even headings do that as soon as they are nested.

* When inside a nested list *if this nesting represents a beamer frame*,
we would like that Enter, on an empty item, switches back to a nested
Standard paragraph, instead of decreasing the nesting.

In fact, it is as if a more appropriate feature to enclose a frame was a
custom inset, instead of a custom paragraph style with nesting. At the
very least it sounds like an issue that requires some more thinking and
some choices to make...


Guillaume

Re: beamer workflow

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 03:58:41PM +0100, Edwin Leuven wrote:
> On 12 Nov 2015, at 13:38, Jürgen Spitzmüller  wrote:
> > 2015-11-12 10:43 GMT+01:00 Edwin Leuven:
> > but even so, perhaps we should consider the behaviour that we have with 
> > itemize:
> > 
> >  preserves indent, and  on an empty itemize decreases indent
> > 
> > we could do the same with nesting no?
> > 
> > i think that would be natural
> > 
> > I agree.
> 
> what about the attached?

I do not see an attachment.

Scott


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Re: beamer workflow

[Kornel Benko]

Am Dienstag, 15. Dezember 2015 um 12:31:26, schrieb Scott Kostyshak 

> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 03:58:41PM +0100, Edwin Leuven wrote:
> > On 12 Nov 2015, at 13:38, Jürgen Spitzmüller  wrote:
> > > 2015-11-12 10:43 GMT+01:00 Edwin Leuven:
> > > but even so, perhaps we should consider the behaviour that we have with 
> > > itemize:
> > > 
> > >  preserves indent, and  on an empty itemize decreases indent
> > > 
> > > we could do the same with nesting no?
> > > 
> > > i think that would be natural
> > > 
> > > I agree.
> > 
> > what about the attached?
> 
> I do not see an attachment.

It is there, hidden between the html parts.

> Scott

Kornel

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Re: beamer workflow

[Edwin Leuven]

On 15 Dec 2015, at 18:36, Kornel Benko  wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 15. Dezember 2015 um 12:31:26, schrieb Scott Kostyshak 
> 
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 03:58:41PM +0100, Edwin Leuven wrote:
>>> On 12 Nov 2015, at 13:38, Jürgen Spitzmüller  wrote:
 2015-11-12 10:43 GMT+01:00 Edwin Leuven:
 but even so, perhaps we should consider the behaviour that we have with 
 itemize:
 
  preserves indent, and  on an empty itemize decreases indent
 
 we could do the same with nesting no?
 
 i think that would be natural
 
 I agree.
>>> 
>>> what about the attached?
>> 
>> I do not see an attachment.
> 
> It is there, hidden between the html parts.

another try:



depth.diff
Description: Binary data

Re: beamer workflow

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 06:40:47PM +0100, Edwin Leuven wrote:
> On 15 Dec 2015, at 18:36, Kornel Benko  wrote:
> > Am Dienstag, 15. Dezember 2015 um 12:31:26, schrieb Scott Kostyshak 
> > 
> >> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 03:58:41PM +0100, Edwin Leuven wrote:
> >>> On 12 Nov 2015, at 13:38, Jürgen Spitzmüller  wrote:
>  2015-11-12 10:43 GMT+01:00 Edwin Leuven:
>  but even so, perhaps we should consider the behaviour that we have with 
>  itemize:
>  
>   preserves indent, and  on an empty itemize decreases 
>  indent
>  
>  we could do the same with nesting no?
>  
>  i think that would be natural
>  
>  I agree.
> >>> 
> >>> what about the attached?
> >> 
> >> I do not see an attachment.
> > 
> > It is there, hidden between the html parts.
> 
> another try:

Ah thanks. On a second look I could find it on the previous email as
well.

Scott


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Re: beamer workflow

[Edwin Leuven]

On 12 Nov 2015, at 13:38, Jürgen Spitzmüller  wrote:2015-11-12 10:43 GMT+01:00 Edwin Leuven:
but even so, perhaps we should consider the behaviour that we have with itemize:

 preserves indent, and  on an empty itemize decreases indent

we could do the same with nesting no?

i think that would be naturalI agree.what about the attached?

depth.diff
Description: Binary data

Re: beamer workflow

[Edwin Leuven]

On 11 Nov 2015, at 19:07, Jürgen Spitzmüller  wrote:
> Am Dienstag 10 November 2015, 10:21:02 schrieb Edwin Leuven:
>> dear all,
>> 
>> when i insert a new frame, add the title and hit enter the new line is set
>> to “Frame”
> 
>> similarly if i am editing the contents of my frame which is an indented
>> standard environment enter gives me a new line set to “Frame”
> 
>> is it possible to have the environment default to “Standard" in these two
>> cases?
> 
>> i think the current default basically never makes sense, or am i missing
>> something?
> 
> Frame is just fine. It behaves equivalently to (nested) standard.

thanks Jürgen, but in my experience Frame does not behave the same as nested 
Standard

once i start add for example an Itemize my slide is all messed up (both the 
alignment, and a a new slide is added)

also, when i then exit the Itemize with a double  the new environment is 
now a Standard even though i started with a Frame

things get very messy

my slide layout is however as i expect it to be when i put the content in a 
nested Standard (which the manual also recommends)

so atm i need to reset Frame to Standard and increasing the nesting every time 
i add a line to my slide

this is interrupting my workflow, and my thought was that this could be avoided 
if LyX would default to having a nested Standard as the default environment in 
a Frame

but again, perhaps i am missing something?

regards, edwin

Re: beamer workflow

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2015-11-12 10:19 GMT+01:00 Edwin Leuven:

>
> thanks Jürgen, but in my experience Frame does not behave the same as
> nested Standard
>
> once i start add for example an Itemize my slide is all messed up (both
> the alignment, and a a new slide is added)
>

Itemize is not Standard. All except Frame need to be nested (as documented).


>
> also, when i then exit the Itemize with a double  the new
> environment is now a Standard even though i started with a Frame
>

As far as the LaTeX output is concerned, this makes no difference to
non-nested Frame. So it's just a cosmetic issue in the workarea. But maybe
we should indeed reset to Frame rather than Standard here to avoid
confusion.


>
> things get very messy
>
> my slide layout is however as i expect it to be when i put the content in
> a nested Standard (which the manual also recommends)
>
> so atm i need to reset Frame to Standard and increasing the nesting every
> time i add a line to my slide
>

Use Alt+Return to maintain the nesting level.


> this is interrupting my workflow, and my thought was that this could be
> avoided if LyX would default to having a nested Standard as the default
> environment in a Frame
>

I thought about this, too. But I think it's not easy to implement this in a
sane way.

Jürgen


>
> but again, perhaps i am missing something?
>
> regards, edwin
>
>
>

Re: beamer workflow

[Edwin Leuven]

On 12 Nov 2015, at 10:32, Jürgen Spitzmüller  wrote:
> 2015-11-12 10:19 GMT+01:00 Edwin Leuven:
> 
> thanks Jürgen, but in my experience Frame does not behave the same as nested 
> Standard
> 
> once i start add for example an Itemize my slide is all messed up (both the 
> alignment, and a a new slide is added)
> 
> Itemize is not Standard. All except Frame need to be nested (as documented).
>  
> 
> also, when i then exit the Itemize with a double  the new environment 
> is now a Standard even though i started with a Frame
> 
> As far as the LaTeX output is concerned, this makes no difference to 
> non-nested Frame. So it's just a cosmetic issue in the workarea. But maybe we 
> should indeed reset to Frame rather than Standard here to avoid confusion.

yes, that would be cleaner

> things get very messy
> 
> my slide layout is however as i expect it to be when i put the content in a 
> nested Standard (which the manual also recommends)
> 
> so atm i need to reset Frame to Standard and increasing the nesting every 
> time i add a line to my slide
> 
> Use Alt+Return to maintain the nesting level.

ah, i didn’t know that

but even so, perhaps we should consider the behaviour that we have with itemize:

 preserves indent, and  on an empty itemize decreases indent

we could do the same with nesting no?

i think that would be natural


> this is interrupting my workflow, and my thought was that this could be 
> avoided if LyX would default to having a nested Standard as the default 
> environment in a Frame
> 
> I thought about this, too. But I think it's not easy to implement this in a 
> sane way.

a pity, so there’s no “environment_on_enter” among the layout options?

thanks, ed.

Re: beamer workflow

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2015-11-12 10:43 GMT+01:00 Edwin Leuven:

> but even so, perhaps we should consider the behaviour that we have with
> itemize:
>
>  preserves indent, and  on an empty itemize decreases indent
>
> we could do the same with nesting no?
>
> i think that would be natural
>

I agree.


>
>
> > this is interrupting my workflow, and my thought was that this could be
> avoided if LyX would default to having a nested Standard as the default
> environment in a Frame
> >
> > I thought about this, too. But I think it's not easy to implement this
> in a sane way.
>
> a pity, so there’s no “environment_on_enter” among the layout options?
>

No. But I think we need something like this in the long run (not only for
beamer). Including the possibility no force nesting.

Jürgen


>
> thanks, ed.
>
>
>

Re: beamer workflow

[Guillaume Munch]

Le 12/11/2015 09:19, Edwin Leuven a écrit :

On 11 Nov 2015, at 19:07, Jürgen Spitzmüller  wrote:

Am Dienstag 10 November 2015, 10:21:02 schrieb Edwin Leuven:

dear all,

when i insert a new frame, add the title and hit enter the new line is set
to “Frame”



similarly if i am editing the contents of my frame which is an indented
standard environment enter gives me a new line set to “Frame”



is it possible to have the environment default to “Standard" in these two
cases?



i think the current default basically never makes sense, or am i missing
something?


Frame is just fine. It behaves equivalently to (nested) standard.





thanks Jürgen, but in my experience Frame does not behave the same as
nested Standard

once i start add for example an Itemize my slide is all messed up
(both the alignment, and a a new slide is added)

also, when i then exit the Itemize with a double  the new
environment is now a Standard even though i started with a Frame

things get very messy

my slide layout is however as i expect it to be when i put the
content in a nested Standard (which the manual also recommends)

so atm i need to reset Frame to Standard and increasing the nesting
every time i add a line to my slide

this is interrupting my workflow, and my thought was that this could
be avoided if LyX would default to having a nested Standard as the
default environment in a Frame

but again, perhaps i am missing something?



I have the exact same experience with the Beamer layout. I wanted to 
react too but you managed to make it very clear, thank you.



Guillaume

Re: beamer workflow

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Am Dienstag 10 November 2015, 10:21:02 schrieb Edwin Leuven:
> dear all,
> 
> when i insert a new frame, add the title and hit enter the new line is set
> to “Frame”
 
> similarly if i am editing the contents of my frame which is an indented
> standard environment enter gives me a new line set to “Frame”
 
> is it possible to have the environment default to “Standard" in these two
> cases?
 
> i think the current default basically never makes sense, or am i missing
> something?
 
Frame is just fine. It behaves equivalently to (nested) standard.

Jürgen


> thanks, ed.
> 
> ps. recently made the switch from 2.0 to 2.2dev because of the font trouble,
> you did a great job on 2.2dev which seems already very stable!
 

beamer workflow

[Edwin Leuven]

dear all,

when i insert a new frame, add the title and hit enter the new line is set to 
“Frame”

similarly if i am editing the contents of my frame which is an indented 
standard environment enter gives me a new line set to “Frame”

is it possible to have the environment default to “Standard" in these two cases?

i think the current default basically never makes sense, or am i missing 
something?

thanks, ed.

ps. recently made the switch from 2.0 to 2.2dev because of the font trouble, 
you did a great job on 2.2dev which seems already very stable!