Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
Thank you. I will definitely look into Objective -C and RubyMotion metaprogramming and reflection abilities. David On May 19, 2013, at 5:18 PM, Colin Thomas Arnold Gray wrote: Just because RubyMotion is compiled doesn't mean it can't have metaprogramming and reflection abilities. These features are not orthogonal to each other. It is true that most compiled languages DON'T have these features, but objective-c definitely DOES. For some light reading, check out (if you're curious) the Objective-C runtime functions. It's easy to see how RubyMotion can take advantages of that system. On the topic of if it doesn't implement feature ‘X’ then its not Ruby: There is not just one implementation of Ruby. The standard library and syntax are defined by the MRI implementation, but JRuby, IronRuby, Maglev and Rubinius all introduce different takes (and then there's mruby, but it's not fair to compare that one). There is an oft-quoted Ruby-ism that applies here: If it looks like Ruby, and walks like Ruby, it's Ruby ;-) #colinta ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
Francis, I know nothing about RubyMotion but if I understand correctly it uses a compiler and not an interpreter. So I doubt if it can implement Metaprogramming and Reflection. If it does not , then it is not a Ruby . It might be an excellent language but not Ruby. To the best of my understanding Ruby is a very well defined language supported by a large community and works in what seems to me ( I know Ruby for no more than a year) in a very orderly way. David On May 19, 2013, at 3:52 AM, Francis Chong wrote: David Yes? I got an impression it's just matz implementation. BTW, do RubyMotion even run ruby spec? — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 5:04 AM, david kramf dakr@gmail.com wrote: Francis, Ruby is very well defined language with a well defined standard. David On May 17, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Francis Chong wrote: @david depends on your definition on full ruby. I would say standard library is part is full ruby, where RubyMotion deliberately remove part of them @stephen thanks for the update, I should have tested that myself — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:26 PM, stephen horne fat...@gmail.com wrote: From what I understand, the only thing missing in Rubymotion is eval() There's an article by Clay Allsop about meta-programming in Rubymotion at http://clayallsopp.com/posts/rubymotion-metaprogramming/ I tested to see if eval() works in desktop Rubymotion apps (I read somewhere that the reason it's not included is due to Apple restrictions on run-time code evaluation in iOS, rather than a limit of Rubymotion), but it doesn't. fb compose-unknown-contact.jpg david kramf 17/05/2013 13:19 Is RubyMotion a full Ruby. Does it support reflection and metaprograming? Thanks, David Kramf ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel postbox-contact.jpg Francis Chong 17/05/2013 12:15 While I'm really happy about OS X support on RubyMotion, it is not a replacement for MacRuby. IMHO MacRuby is far superior: It offer JIT compiler, you develop orders of magnitude faster as you dont need clean and rebuild every time. You have full ruby compatibility, load standard library as you wish. It loads gems and framework dynamically like what you would expected from regular ruby. You don't have to write new gems, or rewrite them. Many gems just work, even native ones could work. You can use regular technique for meta programming, and generally you don't enter a uncanny valley between dynamic language and static build system. Some of these limitations are inherited from RubyMotion due to iOS restriction, I don't see them going away anytime soon. That said, RubyMotion team is the ones who know most of MacRuby, and their direction is not like MacRuby in past. If you are going to develop Mac app, your best choice is probably go RubyMotion, or just use Objective-C. — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
Hey David, Francis is right, MRI is leading the way, although there was an ISO standard released last year. The alternative implementations started the ruby specs, years before that so they could get their rubies to work as drop in replacement for MRI. There are other languages with variants that implement only a subset of the syntax for special purposes. To say RubyMotion is not Ruby because it has a limitation sounds weird to me, almost religiously puristic. I love ruby because it focuses on human usage and Laurent has pushed the limit what we can do with ruby on OSX and iOS. Think of what it can do not what it cannot, it's enabling technology and they are celebrating their first anniversary. best ben On 19 May 2013, at 10:04, david kramf dakr@gmail.com wrote: Francis, I know nothing about RubyMotion but if I understand correctly it uses a compiler and not an interpreter. So I doubt if it can implement Metaprogramming and Reflection. If it does not , then it is not a Ruby . It might be an excellent language but not Ruby. To the best of my understanding Ruby is a very well defined language supported by a large community and works in what seems to me ( I know Ruby for no more than a year) in a very orderly way. David On May 19, 2013, at 3:52 AM, Francis Chong wrote: David Yes? I got an impression it's just matz implementation. BTW, do RubyMotion even run ruby spec? — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 5:04 AM, david kramf dakr@gmail.com wrote: Francis, Ruby is very well defined language with a well defined standard. David On May 17, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Francis Chong wrote: @david depends on your definition on full ruby. I would say standard library is part is full ruby, where RubyMotion deliberately remove part of them @stephen thanks for the update, I should have tested that myself — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:26 PM, stephen horne fat...@gmail.com wrote: From what I understand, the only thing missing in Rubymotion is eval() There's an article by Clay Allsop about meta-programming in Rubymotion at http://clayallsopp.com/posts/rubymotion-metaprogramming/ I tested to see if eval() works in desktop Rubymotion apps (I read somewhere that the reason it's not included is due to Apple restrictions on run-time code evaluation in iOS, rather than a limit of Rubymotion), but it doesn't. fb compose-unknown-contact.jpg david kramf17/05/2013 13:19 Is RubyMotion a full Ruby. Does it support reflection and metaprograming? Thanks, David Kramf ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel postbox-contact.jpg Francis Chong 17/05/2013 12:15 While I'm really happy about OS X support on RubyMotion, it is not a replacement for MacRuby. IMHO MacRuby is far superior: It offer JIT compiler, you develop orders of magnitude faster as you dont need clean and rebuild every time. You have full ruby compatibility, load standard library as you wish. It loads gems and framework dynamically like what you would expected from regular ruby. You don't have to write new gems, or rewrite them. Many gems just work, even native ones could work. You can use regular technique for meta programming, and generally you don't enter a uncanny valley between dynamic language and static build system. Some of these limitations are inherited from RubyMotion due to iOS restriction, I don't see them going away anytime soon. That said, RubyMotion team is the ones who know most of MacRuby, and their direction is not like MacRuby in past. If you are going to develop Mac app, your best choice is probably go RubyMotion, or just use Objective-C. — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
Hi Ben, I am writing an OS X project that relies on Metaprogramming and Reflection. Does not seem like RubMotion is an option for me. All the best, David On May 16, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Carolyn Ann Grant wrote: Thanks, Mark! Yeah, I know the price is more than reasonable, Mark, it's just that right now, we're not in a position to afford much of anything. Without getting too personal, we're still digging out from the Great Recession, which hit my family pretty hard. (As they say in DC, mistakes were made, and I seem to have gone out of my way to make sure they were doozies!) I agree that HipByte is likely to work toward their own success; I'll definitely be looking at them when I can. I think at this point, I have to stick to Objective-C, as much as I really don't want to. Ruby is just so much better! As for why, I need to have confidence that I'm not investing a large amount of time and effort into something that I'll have to abandon when OS X 10.9 comes out. I've chased more than a few promising technologies, only to see them wither on the vine, so to speak. I've made such a habit of it, that I was beginning to think that if I was interested in something, it was likely on its way out! At this point, I simply can't afford to do that again. So while I'm not delighted to be writing code in Obj-C, at least I know it's going to be around for a few years. And I don't have to try and figure out what I did wrong with bridge support files, etc. I am disappointed, and I do wish I had the time and knowledge to further MacRuby, but I have to prioritize what gets my attention and what I'd like to do but can't. Thank you, all! :-) /Carolyn On May 16, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Mark Villacampa markv...@gmail.com wrote: I'm a longtime RubyMotion user, and MacRuby user before that. I want to share my view as to what is the current status of MacRuby and what can happen in the future. The momentum around MacRuby has been inexistent for almost a year and a half. That is, since Laurent Sansonetti (the original creator of MacRuby) left Apple, and that left the project without maintainers who were being paid to work on it. Only Watson and a couple other maintainers have been doing maintenance work and fixing a couple of bugs. Since nobody is being paid to maintain it, and (AFAIK) there is no company/individual whose main/critical systems depended on MacRuby, nobody has taken over the project. This is pretty much a chicken-egg situation. That said, a year ago, Laurent launched RubyMotion, a product based on MacRuby which introduces many new features, such as an ARC based memory model, and iOS support (dropping OSX support). Just a few days ago, in the first anniversary of RubyMotion, they introduced OSX support. Rubymotion is not open source, and the license costs 200$, plus an annual renewal fee of 99$. Two reasons that people sometimes argue for not investing in RM are: - It's closed source, it might disappear at any moment: Actually, RubyMotion is probably more likely to stay in the long term than MacRuby was at the beginning. Despite Apple being a huge company, MacRuby was kind of an experiment that they could kill at any moment. For HipByte (the company behind Rubymotion), Rubymotion is its main product and the one that pays its employees. They are way more interested in watching RM succeed than Apple was in watching MacRuby succeed. - It's too expensive: for playing around or releasing a pet project or free app that is not one of your ways of income, that might be the case. However, for a company or individual that wants to develop a product from which they hope to get some revenue, that price is ridiculous. I've seen PHP libraries for creating web forms more expensive than RubyMotion (nothing against those libraries). We're talking about a static compiler and a whole toolchain for developing iOS apps. If you're a student and want to play around with RubyMotion, there is a student discount available (send them an email for more information). So my conclusion is: If you want to develop OSX applications and you liked MacRuby, invest in getting a RubyMotion license, you probably won't be disappointed. Mark. On Thursday, May 16, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Christopher S Martin wrote: They recently added support for OS X to rubymotion: http://blog.rubymotion.com/post/49943751398/rubymotion-goes-2-0-and-gets-os-x-support-templates That said, since rubymotion is (I believe) based off of macruby with some additions specifically around static compilation of apps, I don't know if the issues around GC/ARC would be any better in rubymotion on OS X, as I've only used it for iOS. On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Jeff Dyck fsjj...@gmail.com wrote: Just wanted to add a ditto to this - I'm looking at migrating some old AppleScript Studio projects to MacRuby - my initial testing about a year
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
@ben thanks, this is very clear @david you can do reflection and metaprogramming in RubyMotion, but if you porting code from regular ruby (like those use missing standard library like singleton, delegate, or those missing API like eval string, method_define string) , it might need some big change — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 6:44 PM, david kramf dakr@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ben, I am writing an OS X project that relies on Metaprogramming and Reflection. Does not seem like RubMotion is an option for me. All the best, David On May 16, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Carolyn Ann Grant wrote: Thanks, Mark! Yeah, I know the price is more than reasonable, Mark, it's just that right now, we're not in a position to afford much of anything. Without getting too personal, we're still digging out from the Great Recession, which hit my family pretty hard. (As they say in DC, mistakes were made, and I seem to have gone out of my way to make sure they were doozies!) I agree that HipByte is likely to work toward their own success; I'll definitely be looking at them when I can. I think at this point, I have to stick to Objective-C, as much as I really don't want to. Ruby is just so much better! As for why, I need to have confidence that I'm not investing a large amount of time and effort into something that I'll have to abandon when OS X 10.9 comes out. I've chased more than a few promising technologies, only to see them wither on the vine, so to speak. I've made such a habit of it, that I was beginning to think that if I was interested in something, it was likely on its way out! At this point, I simply can't afford to do that again. So while I'm not delighted to be writing code in Obj-C, at least I know it's going to be around for a few years. And I don't have to try and figure out what I did wrong with bridge support files, etc. I am disappointed, and I do wish I had the time and knowledge to further MacRuby, but I have to prioritize what gets my attention and what I'd like to do but can't. Thank you, all! :-) /Carolyn On May 16, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Mark Villacampa markv...@gmail.com wrote: I'm a longtime RubyMotion user, and MacRuby user before that. I want to share my view as to what is the current status of MacRuby and what can happen in the future. The momentum around MacRuby has been inexistent for almost a year and a half. That is, since Laurent Sansonetti (the original creator of MacRuby) left Apple, and that left the project without maintainers who were being paid to work on it. Only Watson and a couple other maintainers have been doing maintenance work and fixing a couple of bugs. Since nobody is being paid to maintain it, and (AFAIK) there is no company/individual whose main/critical systems depended on MacRuby, nobody has taken over the project. This is pretty much a chicken-egg situation. That said, a year ago, Laurent launched RubyMotion, a product based on MacRuby which introduces many new features, such as an ARC based memory model, and iOS support (dropping OSX support). Just a few days ago, in the first anniversary of RubyMotion, they introduced OSX support. Rubymotion is not open source, and the license costs 200$, plus an annual renewal fee of 99$. Two reasons that people sometimes argue for not investing in RM are: - It's closed source, it might disappear at any moment: Actually, RubyMotion is probably more likely to stay in the long term than MacRuby was at the beginning. Despite Apple being a huge company, MacRuby was kind of an experiment that they could kill at any moment. For HipByte (the company behind Rubymotion), Rubymotion is its main product and the one that pays its employees. They are way more interested in watching RM succeed than Apple was in watching MacRuby succeed. - It's too expensive: for playing around or releasing a pet project or free app that is not one of your ways of income, that might be the case. However, for a company or individual that wants to develop a product from which they hope to get some revenue, that price is ridiculous. I've seen PHP libraries for creating web forms more expensive than RubyMotion (nothing against those libraries). We're talking about a static compiler and a whole toolchain for developing iOS apps. If you're a student and want to play around with RubyMotion, there is a student discount available (send them an email for more information). So my conclusion is: If you want to develop OSX applications and you liked MacRuby, invest in getting a RubyMotion license, you probably won't be disappointed. Mark. On Thursday, May 16, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Christopher S Martin wrote: They recently added support for OS X to rubymotion: http://blog.rubymotion.com/post/49943751398/rubymotion-goes-2-0-and-gets-os-x-support-templates That said, since rubymotion is (I believe) based off of macruby
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
Just because RubyMotion is compiled doesn't mean it can't have metaprogramming and reflection abilities. These features are not orthogonal to each other. It is true that most compiled languages DON'T have these features, but objective-c definitely DOES. For some light reading, check out (if you're curious) the Objective-C runtime functions. It's easy to see how RubyMotion can take advantages of that system. On the topic of if it doesn't implement feature ‘X’ then its not Ruby: There is not just one implementation of Ruby. The standard library and syntax are defined by the MRI implementation, but JRuby, IronRuby, Maglev and Rubinius all introduce different takes (and then there's mruby, but it's not fair to compare that one). There is an oft-quoted Ruby-ism that applies here: If it looks like Ruby, and walks like Ruby, it's Ruby ;-) #colinta ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
Francis, Ruby is very well defined language with a well defined standard. David On May 17, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Francis Chong wrote: @david depends on your definition on full ruby. I would say standard library is part is full ruby, where RubyMotion deliberately remove part of them @stephen thanks for the update, I should have tested that myself — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:26 PM, stephen horne fat...@gmail.com wrote: From what I understand, the only thing missing in Rubymotion is eval() There's an article by Clay Allsop about meta-programming in Rubymotion at http://clayallsopp.com/posts/rubymotion-metaprogramming/ I tested to see if eval() works in desktop Rubymotion apps (I read somewhere that the reason it's not included is due to Apple restrictions on run-time code evaluation in iOS, rather than a limit of Rubymotion), but it doesn't. fb compose-unknown-contact.jpg david kramf 17/05/2013 13:19 Is RubyMotion a full Ruby. Does it support reflection and metaprograming? Thanks, David Kramf ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel postbox-contact.jpg Francis Chong17/05/2013 12:15 While I'm really happy about OS X support on RubyMotion, it is not a replacement for MacRuby. IMHO MacRuby is far superior: It offer JIT compiler, you develop orders of magnitude faster as you dont need clean and rebuild every time. You have full ruby compatibility, load standard library as you wish. It loads gems and framework dynamically like what you would expected from regular ruby. You don't have to write new gems, or rewrite them. Many gems just work, even native ones could work. You can use regular technique for meta programming, and generally you don't enter a uncanny valley between dynamic language and static build system. Some of these limitations are inherited from RubyMotion due to iOS restriction, I don't see them going away anytime soon. That said, RubyMotion team is the ones who know most of MacRuby, and their direction is not like MacRuby in past. If you are going to develop Mac app, your best choice is probably go RubyMotion, or just use Objective-C. — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
David Yes? I got an impression it's just matz implementation. BTW, do RubyMotion even run ruby spec? — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 5:04 AM, david kramf dakr@gmail.com wrote: Francis, Ruby is very well defined language with a well defined standard. David On May 17, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Francis Chong wrote: @david depends on your definition on full ruby. I would say standard library is part is full ruby, where RubyMotion deliberately remove part of them @stephen thanks for the update, I should have tested that myself — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:26 PM, stephen horne fat...@gmail.com wrote: From what I understand, the only thing missing in Rubymotion is eval() There's an article by Clay Allsop about meta-programming in Rubymotion at http://clayallsopp.com/posts/rubymotion-metaprogramming/ I tested to see if eval() works in desktop Rubymotion apps (I read somewhere that the reason it's not included is due to Apple restrictions on run-time code evaluation in iOS, rather than a limit of Rubymotion), but it doesn't. fb compose-unknown-contact.jpg david kramf 17/05/2013 13:19 Is RubyMotion a full Ruby. Does it support reflection and metaprograming? Thanks, David Kramf ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel postbox-contact.jpg Francis Chong 17/05/2013 12:15 While I'm really happy about OS X support on RubyMotion, it is not a replacement for MacRuby. IMHO MacRuby is far superior: It offer JIT compiler, you develop orders of magnitude faster as you dont need clean and rebuild every time. You have full ruby compatibility, load standard library as you wish. It loads gems and framework dynamically like what you would expected from regular ruby. You don't have to write new gems, or rewrite them. Many gems just work, even native ones could work. You can use regular technique for meta programming, and generally you don't enter a uncanny valley between dynamic language and static build system. Some of these limitations are inherited from RubyMotion due to iOS restriction, I don't see them going away anytime soon. That said, RubyMotion team is the ones who know most of MacRuby, and their direction is not like MacRuby in past. If you are going to develop Mac app, your best choice is probably go RubyMotion, or just use Objective-C. — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
While I'm really happy about OS X support on RubyMotion, it is not a replacement for MacRuby. IMHO MacRuby is far superior: It offer JIT compiler, you develop orders of magnitude faster as you dont need clean and rebuild every time. You have full ruby compatibility, load standard library as you wish. It loads gems and framework dynamically like what you would expected from regular ruby. You don't have to write new gems, or rewrite them. Many gems just work, even native ones could work. You can use regular technique for meta programming, and generally you don't enter a uncanny valley between dynamic language and static build system. Some of these limitations are inherited from RubyMotion due to iOS restriction, I don't see them going away anytime soon. That said, RubyMotion team is the ones who know most of MacRuby, and their direction is not like MacRuby in past. If you are going to develop Mac app, your best choice is probably go RubyMotion, or just use Objective-C. — Sent from Mailbox for iPhone On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Carolyn Ann Grant carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com wrote: I've changed my mind. :-) I translated part of a project into Obj-C, and it just wasn't the same. I *like* the Ruby language, and while MacRuby has its foibles, it's still very good. Here's my reasoning: Apple isn't going to do a consumer release of 10.9 any time soon - according to the press reports I've read, it's being tested by them, but the first developer release isn't expected until WWDC in June. There's going to be a round of beta's, release candidates and so on, as per normal, and then it'll have the consumer release, maybe by October, perhaps November. I'm certainly not expecting anything as early as September! Now, if I keep up with using MacRuby, I then have the option of either expanding my knowledge of MacRuby internals in meantime *and* be in a position to use RubyMotion. If I switch to Obj-C now, switching to RubyMotion or a newer MacRuby later will be either more work or not worth it. Meanwhile, MacRuby works on Mountain Lion and while, as I said, it has it foibles, it's still a lot more pleasurable writing code in Ruby than it is in Obj-C! I think that makes sense? Thanks again for the conversation! :-) Carolyn On May 16, 2013, at 3:05 PM, Carolyn Ann Grant carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Mark! Yeah, I know the price is more than reasonable, Mark, it's just that right now, we're not in a position to afford much of anything. Without getting too personal, we're still digging out from the Great Recession, which hit my family pretty hard. (As they say in DC, mistakes were made, and I seem to have gone out of my way to make sure they were doozies!) I agree that HipByte is likely to work toward their own success; I'll definitely be looking at them when I can. I think at this point, I have to stick to Objective-C, as much as I really don't want to. Ruby is just so much better! As for why, I need to have confidence that I'm not investing a large amount of time and effort into something that I'll have to abandon when OS X 10.9 comes out. I've chased more than a few promising technologies, only to see them wither on the vine, so to speak. I've made such a habit of it, that I was beginning to think that if I was interested in something, it was likely on its way out! At this point, I simply can't afford to do that again. So while I'm not delighted to be writing code in Obj-C, at least I know it's going to be around for a few years. And I don't have to try and figure out what I did wrong with bridge support files, etc. I am disappointed, and I do wish I had the time and knowledge to further MacRuby, but I have to prioritize what gets my attention and what I'd like to do but can't. Thank you, all! :-) /Carolyn On May 16, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Mark Villacampa markv...@gmail.com wrote: I'm a longtime RubyMotion user, and MacRuby user before that. I want to share my view as to what is the current status of MacRuby and what can happen in the future. The momentum around MacRuby has been inexistent for almost a year and a half. That is, since Laurent Sansonetti (the original creator of MacRuby) left Apple, and that left the project without maintainers who were being paid to work on it. Only Watson and a couple other maintainers have been doing maintenance work and fixing a couple of bugs. Since nobody is being paid to maintain it, and (AFAIK) there is no company/individual whose main/critical systems depended on MacRuby, nobody has taken over the project. This is pretty much a chicken-egg situation. That said, a year ago, Laurent launched RubyMotion, a product based on MacRuby which introduces many new features, such as an ARC based memory model, and iOS support (dropping OSX support). Just a few days ago, in the first anniversary of RubyMotion, they introduced OSX
[MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
Hi, I've got a question about the future of MacRuby. I like it, and have started working on a project or two using it, but I've been reading about GC and ARC, Ruby 2.0, RubyMotion and so on, and wonder where MacRuby is going? I'm quite concerned because I've put a good amount of time into my MacRuby projects. I wish I had the knowledge and skill to help with MacRuby - I really do like it! - but unfortunately I don't. I also don't want to invest a lot of further time in MacRuby if it's not going anywhere. (And I really can't spare the $200 it would take to buy RubyMotion.) I know this comes across as a bit impertinent, but I really would like to know what's happening with MacRuby development. Thanks! ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
Hello all (and especially Carolyn), I just want to say that I have the same question, specifically regarding the GC/ARC issue. The context in which this came up was very revealing. I had been developing a fairly complex Cocoa project (ARC enabled) and decided that I had to add some tests. Using MacRuby seemed like the natural solution. I quickly noticed, though, that I couldn't. Is there still any momentum behind MacRuby? Is there any solution to the issue of mixing it with ARC? I really hope the answer to these two questions is yes. Thank you, Michael Shantzis On May 16, 2013, at 8:32 AM, Carolyn Ann Grant carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I've got a question about the future of MacRuby. I like it, and have started working on a project or two using it, but I've been reading about GC and ARC, Ruby 2.0, RubyMotion and so on, and wonder where MacRuby is going? I'm quite concerned because I've put a good amount of time into my MacRuby projects. I wish I had the knowledge and skill to help with MacRuby - I really do like it! - but unfortunately I don't. I also don't want to invest a lot of further time in MacRuby if it's not going anywhere. (And I really can't spare the $200 it would take to buy RubyMotion.) I know this comes across as a bit impertinent, but I really would like to know what's happening with MacRuby development. Thanks! ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
Add me in as another questioner of MacRuby's future. (And thanks for bringing this up -- I'd been meaning to do so myself.) The GC issue is the most obvious, but I've also noticed a distinct lack of updates and general involvement by any of the maintainers. Looking at the already-sparse mailing list archives of the last few months, there's many more questions than answers. In the source repo, there are several pull requests and many open issues. And while there was some talk about doing a 0.13 release, that seems to have stalled. And I don't see any active branches that might have any GC/ARC changes. A couple of weeks ago, I spent hours figuring out some Bridgesupport/Pointer issues, and after that experience had pretty much decided to write off MacRuby because it didn't seem like a place to put a lot of time energy. At the moment, paying a bit of cash to get RubyMotion seems like a better idea. But I'd love to be proven wrong. Best, --John On 16 May 2013, at 10:40 AM, Michael Shantzis mich...@shantzis.com wrote: Hello all (and especially Carolyn), I just want to say that I have the same question, specifically regarding the GC/ARC issue. The context in which this came up was very revealing. I had been developing a fairly complex Cocoa project (ARC enabled) and decided that I had to add some tests. Using MacRuby seemed like the natural solution. I quickly noticed, though, that I couldn't. Is there still any momentum behind MacRuby? Is there any solution to the issue of mixing it with ARC? I really hope the answer to these two questions is yes. Thank you, Michael Shantzis On May 16, 2013, at 8:32 AM, Carolyn Ann Grant carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I've got a question about the future of MacRuby. I like it, and have started working on a project or two using it, but I've been reading about GC and ARC, Ruby 2.0, RubyMotion and so on, and wonder where MacRuby is going? I'm quite concerned because I've put a good amount of time into my MacRuby projects. I wish I had the knowledge and skill to help with MacRuby - I really do like it! - but unfortunately I don't. I also don't want to invest a lot of further time in MacRuby if it's not going anywhere. (And I really can't spare the $200 it would take to buy RubyMotion.) I know this comes across as a bit impertinent, but I really would like to know what's happening with MacRuby development. Thanks! ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
Just wanted to add a ditto to this - I'm looking at migrating some old AppleScript Studio projects to MacRuby - my initial testing about a year ago was great, but it seems the stability of MacRuby as a development platform is in question to me at least... I've already been abandoned by AppleScript Studio, don't really want to have to go through relearning a new language and migrating projects a third time. I'm seeing a few comments on RubyMotion - does that work for developing OS X projects as well? I was under the impression that was for iOS only, but I can't say I've looked into it much. Jeff On May 16, 2013, at 10:40 AM, Michael Shantzis mich...@shantzis.com wrote: Hello all (and especially Carolyn), I just want to say that I have the same question, specifically regarding the GC/ARC issue. The context in which this came up was very revealing. I had been developing a fairly complex Cocoa project (ARC enabled) and decided that I had to add some tests. Using MacRuby seemed like the natural solution. I quickly noticed, though, that I couldn't. Is there still any momentum behind MacRuby? Is there any solution to the issue of mixing it with ARC? I really hope the answer to these two questions is yes. Thank you, Michael Shantzis On May 16, 2013, at 8:32 AM, Carolyn Ann Grant carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I've got a question about the future of MacRuby. I like it, and have started working on a project or two using it, but I've been reading about GC and ARC, Ruby 2.0, RubyMotion and so on, and wonder where MacRuby is going? I'm quite concerned because I've put a good amount of time into my MacRuby projects. I wish I had the knowledge and skill to help with MacRuby - I really do like it! - but unfortunately I don't. I also don't want to invest a lot of further time in MacRuby if it's not going anywhere. (And I really can't spare the $200 it would take to buy RubyMotion.) I know this comes across as a bit impertinent, but I really would like to know what's happening with MacRuby development. Thanks! ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
They recently added support for OS X to rubymotion: http://blog.rubymotion.com/post/49943751398/rubymotion-goes-2-0-and-gets-os-x-support-templates That said, since rubymotion is (I believe) based off of macruby with some additions specifically around static compilation of apps, I don't know if the issues around GC/ARC would be any better in rubymotion on OS X, as I've only used it for iOS. On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Jeff Dyck fsjj...@gmail.com wrote: Just wanted to add a ditto to this - I'm looking at migrating some old AppleScript Studio projects to MacRuby - my initial testing about a year ago was great, but it seems the stability of MacRuby as a development platform is in question to me at least... I've already been abandoned by AppleScript Studio, don't really want to have to go through relearning a new language and migrating projects a third time. I'm seeing a few comments on RubyMotion - does that work for developing OS X projects as well? I was under the impression that was for iOS only, but I can't say I've looked into it much. Jeff On May 16, 2013, at 10:40 AM, Michael Shantzis mich...@shantzis.com wrote: Hello all (and especially Carolyn), I just want to say that I have the same question, specifically regarding the GC/ARC issue. The context in which this came up was very revealing. I had been developing a fairly complex Cocoa project (ARC enabled) and decided that I had to add some tests. Using MacRuby seemed like the natural solution. I quickly noticed, though, that I couldn't. Is there still any momentum behind MacRuby? Is there any solution to the issue of mixing it with ARC? I really hope the answer to these two questions is yes. Thank you, Michael Shantzis On May 16, 2013, at 8:32 AM, Carolyn Ann Grant carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I've got a question about the future of MacRuby. I like it, and have started working on a project or two using it, but I've been reading about GC and ARC, Ruby 2.0, RubyMotion and so on, and wonder where MacRuby is going? I'm quite concerned because I've put a good amount of time into my MacRuby projects. I wish I had the knowledge and skill to help with MacRuby - I really do like it! - but unfortunately I don't. I also don't want to invest a lot of further time in MacRuby if it's not going anywhere. (And I really can't spare the $200 it would take to buy RubyMotion.) I know this comes across as a bit impertinent, but I really would like to know what's happening with MacRuby development. Thanks! ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
I'm a longtime RubyMotion user, and MacRuby user before that. I want to share my view as to what is the current status of MacRuby and what can happen in the future. The momentum around MacRuby has been inexistent for almost a year and a half. That is, since Laurent Sansonetti (the original creator of MacRuby) left Apple, and that left the project without maintainers who were being paid to work on it. Only Watson and a couple other maintainers have been doing maintenance work and fixing a couple of bugs. Since nobody is being paid to maintain it, and (AFAIK) there is no company/individual whose main/critical systems depended on MacRuby, nobody has taken over the project. This is pretty much a chicken-egg situation. That said, a year ago, Laurent launched RubyMotion, a product based on MacRuby which introduces many new features, such as an ARC based memory model, and iOS support (dropping OSX support). Just a few days ago, in the first anniversary of RubyMotion, they introduced OSX support. Rubymotion is not open source, and the license costs 200$, plus an annual renewal fee of 99$. Two reasons that people sometimes argue for not investing in RM are: - It's closed source, it might disappear at any moment: Actually, RubyMotion is probably more likely to stay in the long term than MacRuby was at the beginning. Despite Apple being a huge company, MacRuby was kind of an experiment that they could kill at any moment. For HipByte (the company behind Rubymotion), Rubymotion is its main product and the one that pays its employees. They are way more interested in watching RM succeed than Apple was in watching MacRuby succeed. - It's too expensive: for playing around or releasing a pet project or free app that is not one of your ways of income, that might be the case. However, for a company or individual that wants to develop a product from which they hope to get some revenue, that price is ridiculous. I've seen PHP libraries for creating web forms more expensive than RubyMotion (nothing against those libraries). We're talking about a static compiler and a whole toolchain for developing iOS apps. If you're a student and want to play around with RubyMotion, there is a student discount available (send them an email for more information). So my conclusion is: If you want to develop OSX applications and you liked MacRuby, invest in getting a RubyMotion license, you probably won't be disappointed. Mark. On Thursday, May 16, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Christopher S Martin wrote: They recently added support for OS X to rubymotion: http://blog.rubymotion.com/post/49943751398/rubymotion-goes-2-0-and-gets-os-x-support-templates That said, since rubymotion is (I believe) based off of macruby with some additions specifically around static compilation of apps, I don't know if the issues around GC/ARC would be any better in rubymotion on OS X, as I've only used it for iOS. On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Jeff Dyck fsjj...@gmail.com (mailto:fsjj...@gmail.com) wrote: Just wanted to add a ditto to this - I'm looking at migrating some old AppleScript Studio projects to MacRuby - my initial testing about a year ago was great, but it seems the stability of MacRuby as a development platform is in question to me at least... I've already been abandoned by AppleScript Studio, don't really want to have to go through relearning a new language and migrating projects a third time. I'm seeing a few comments on RubyMotion - does that work for developing OS X projects as well? I was under the impression that was for iOS only, but I can't say I've looked into it much. Jeff On May 16, 2013, at 10:40 AM, Michael Shantzis mich...@shantzis.com (mailto:mich...@shantzis.com) wrote: Hello all (and especially Carolyn), I just want to say that I have the same question, specifically regarding the GC/ARC issue. The context in which this came up was very revealing. I had been developing a fairly complex Cocoa project (ARC enabled) and decided that I had to add some tests. Using MacRuby seemed like the natural solution. I quickly noticed, though, that I couldn't. Is there still any momentum behind MacRuby? Is there any solution to the issue of mixing it with ARC? I really hope the answer to these two questions is yes. Thank you, Michael Shantzis On May 16, 2013, at 8:32 AM, Carolyn Ann Grant carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com (mailto:carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com) wrote: Hi, I've got a question about the future of MacRuby. I like it, and have started working on a project or two using it, but I've been reading about GC and ARC, Ruby 2.0, RubyMotion and so on, and wonder where MacRuby is going? I'm quite concerned because I've put a good amount of time into my MacRuby projects. I wish I had the knowledge and skill to help with MacRuby - I really do like it! - but
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
I would like to see Laurent and Hipbyte offer a paid version of MacRuby with the same pricing structure as RubyMotion. I'd buy it... -- Shaun On Thursday, 16 May, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Mark Villacampa wrote: I'm a longtime RubyMotion user, and MacRuby user before that. I want to share my view as to what is the current status of MacRuby and what can happen in the future. The momentum around MacRuby has been inexistent for almost a year and a half. That is, since Laurent Sansonetti (the original creator of MacRuby) left Apple, and that left the project without maintainers who were being paid to work on it. Only Watson and a couple other maintainers have been doing maintenance work and fixing a couple of bugs. Since nobody is being paid to maintain it, and (AFAIK) there is no company/individual whose main/critical systems depended on MacRuby, nobody has taken over the project. This is pretty much a chicken-egg situation. That said, a year ago, Laurent launched RubyMotion, a product based on MacRuby which introduces many new features, such as an ARC based memory model, and iOS support (dropping OSX support). Just a few days ago, in the first anniversary of RubyMotion, they introduced OSX support. Rubymotion is not open source, and the license costs 200$, plus an annual renewal fee of 99$. Two reasons that people sometimes argue for not investing in RM are: - It's closed source, it might disappear at any moment: Actually, RubyMotion is probably more likely to stay in the long term than MacRuby was at the beginning. Despite Apple being a huge company, MacRuby was kind of an experiment that they could kill at any moment. For HipByte (the company behind Rubymotion), Rubymotion is its main product and the one that pays its employees. They are way more interested in watching RM succeed than Apple was in watching MacRuby succeed. - It's too expensive: for playing around or releasing a pet project or free app that is not one of your ways of income, that might be the case. However, for a company or individual that wants to develop a product from which they hope to get some revenue, that price is ridiculous. I've seen PHP libraries for creating web forms more expensive than RubyMotion (nothing against those libraries). We're talking about a static compiler and a whole toolchain for developing iOS apps. If you're a student and want to play around with RubyMotion, there is a student discount available (send them an email for more information). So my conclusion is: If you want to develop OSX applications and you liked MacRuby, invest in getting a RubyMotion license, you probably won't be disappointed. Mark. On Thursday, May 16, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Christopher S Martin wrote: They recently added support for OS X to rubymotion: http://blog.rubymotion.com/post/49943751398/rubymotion-goes-2-0-and-gets-os-x-support-templates That said, since rubymotion is (I believe) based off of macruby with some additions specifically around static compilation of apps, I don't know if the issues around GC/ARC would be any better in rubymotion on OS X, as I've only used it for iOS. On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Jeff Dyck fsjj...@gmail.com (mailto:fsjj...@gmail.com) wrote: Just wanted to add a ditto to this - I'm looking at migrating some old AppleScript Studio projects to MacRuby - my initial testing about a year ago was great, but it seems the stability of MacRuby as a development platform is in question to me at least... I've already been abandoned by AppleScript Studio, don't really want to have to go through relearning a new language and migrating projects a third time. I'm seeing a few comments on RubyMotion - does that work for developing OS X projects as well? I was under the impression that was for iOS only, but I can't say I've looked into it much. Jeff On May 16, 2013, at 10:40 AM, Michael Shantzis mich...@shantzis.com (mailto:mich...@shantzis.com) wrote: Hello all (and especially Carolyn), I just want to say that I have the same question, specifically regarding the GC/ARC issue. The context in which this came up was very revealing. I had been developing a fairly complex Cocoa project (ARC enabled) and decided that I had to add some tests. Using MacRuby seemed like the natural solution. I quickly noticed, though, that I couldn't. Is there still any momentum behind MacRuby? Is there any solution to the issue of mixing it with ARC? I really hope the answer to these two questions is yes. Thank you, Michael Shantzis On May 16, 2013, at 8:32 AM, Carolyn Ann Grant carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com (mailto:carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com) wrote: Hi, I've got a question about the future of MacRuby. I like it, and have started working on a
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
@Shaun: I think RubyMotion 2 is that offering. @Mark: Well said. I dabbled in MacRuby and thought it would be great if 'they' could get something going for IOS. MY first thought when RubyMotion came out was I needed to buy a license to support HipByte, I have never regretted this and bought my extension last week. The paradigm for RubyMotion has been to step outside the Apple Toolchain to allow developers to produce applications with ease. I am pleased to see this continue in the Cocoa application space. And, the community is almost worth the price of admission alone. :) Heck, I am already giving Apple a hundred bucks a year, so giving Laurent another hundred to actually build in a language I like isn't that much more. Andy Stechishin (lurker) On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Shaun August saug...@me.com wrote: I would like to see Laurent and Hipbyte offer a paid version of MacRuby with the same pricing structure as RubyMotion. I'd buy it... -- Shaun On Thursday, 16 May, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Mark Villacampa wrote: I'm a longtime RubyMotion user, and MacRuby user before that. I want to share my view as to what is the current status of MacRuby and what can happen in the future. The momentum around MacRuby has been inexistent for almost a year and a half. That is, since Laurent Sansonetti (the original creator of MacRuby) left Apple, and that left the project without maintainers who were being paid to work on it. Only Watson and a couple other maintainers have been doing maintenance work and fixing a couple of bugs. Since nobody is being paid to maintain it, and (AFAIK) there is no company/individual whose main/critical systems depended on MacRuby, nobody has taken over the project. This is pretty much a chicken-egg situation. That said, a year ago, Laurent launched RubyMotion, a product based on MacRuby which introduces many new features, such as an ARC based memory model, and iOS support (dropping OSX support). Just a few days ago, in the first anniversary of RubyMotion, they introduced OSX support. Rubymotion is not open source, and the license costs 200$, plus an annual renewal fee of 99$. Two reasons that people sometimes argue for not investing in RM are: - It's closed source, it might disappear at any moment: Actually, RubyMotion is probably more likely to stay in the long term than MacRuby was at the beginning. Despite Apple being a huge company, MacRuby was kind of an experiment that they could kill at any moment. For HipByte (the company behind Rubymotion), Rubymotion is its main product and the one that pays its employees. They are way more interested in watching RM succeed than Apple was in watching MacRuby succeed. - It's too expensive: for playing around or releasing a pet project or free app that is not one of your ways of income, that might be the case. However, for a company or individual that wants to develop a product from which they hope to get some revenue, that price is ridiculous. I've seen PHP libraries for creating web forms more expensive than RubyMotion (nothing against those libraries). We're talking about a static compiler and a whole toolchain for developing iOS apps. If you're a student and want to play around with RubyMotion, there is a student discount available (send them an email for more information). So my conclusion is: If you want to develop OSX applications and you liked MacRuby, invest in getting a RubyMotion license, you probably won't be disappointed. Mark. On Thursday, May 16, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Christopher S Martin wrote: They recently added support for OS X to rubymotion: http://blog.rubymotion.com/post/49943751398/rubymotion-goes-2-0-and-gets-os-x-support-templates That said, since rubymotion is (I believe) based off of macruby with some additions specifically around static compilation of apps, I don't know if the issues around GC/ARC would be any better in rubymotion on OS X, as I've only used it for iOS. On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Jeff Dyck fsjj...@gmail.com wrote: Just wanted to add a ditto to this - I'm looking at migrating some old AppleScript Studio projects to MacRuby - my initial testing about a year ago was great, but it seems the stability of MacRuby as a development platform is in question to me at least... I've already been abandoned by AppleScript Studio, don't really want to have to go through relearning a new language and migrating projects a third time. I'm seeing a few comments on RubyMotion - does that work for developing OS X projects as well? I was under the impression that was for iOS only, but I can't say I've looked into it much. Jeff On May 16, 2013, at 10:40 AM, Michael Shantzis mich...@shantzis.com wrote: Hello all (and especially Carolyn), I just want to say that I have the same question, specifically regarding the GC/ARC issue. The context in which this came up was very revealing. I had been developing a fairly complex Cocoa
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
@Andy, I can't believe I missed that! Thanks! -- Shaun On Thursday, 16 May, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Andy Stechishin wrote: @Shaun: I think RubyMotion 2 is that offering. @Mark: Well said. I dabbled in MacRuby and thought it would be great if 'they' could get something going for IOS. MY first thought when RubyMotion came out was I needed to buy a license to support HipByte, I have never regretted this and bought my extension last week. The paradigm for RubyMotion has been to step outside the Apple Toolchain to allow developers to produce applications with ease. I am pleased to see this continue in the Cocoa application space. And, the community is almost worth the price of admission alone. :) Heck, I am already giving Apple a hundred bucks a year, so giving Laurent another hundred to actually build in a language I like isn't that much more. Andy Stechishin (lurker) On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Shaun August saug...@me.com (mailto:saug...@me.com) wrote: I would like to see Laurent and Hipbyte offer a paid version of MacRuby with the same pricing structure as RubyMotion. I'd buy it... -- Shaun On Thursday, 16 May, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Mark Villacampa wrote: I'm a longtime RubyMotion user, and MacRuby user before that. I want to share my view as to what is the current status of MacRuby and what can happen in the future. The momentum around MacRuby has been inexistent for almost a year and a half. That is, since Laurent Sansonetti (the original creator of MacRuby) left Apple, and that left the project without maintainers who were being paid to work on it. Only Watson and a couple other maintainers have been doing maintenance work and fixing a couple of bugs. Since nobody is being paid to maintain it, and (AFAIK) there is no company/individual whose main/critical systems depended on MacRuby, nobody has taken over the project. This is pretty much a chicken-egg situation. That said, a year ago, Laurent launched RubyMotion, a product based on MacRuby which introduces many new features, such as an ARC based memory model, and iOS support (dropping OSX support). Just a few days ago, in the first anniversary of RubyMotion, they introduced OSX support. Rubymotion is not open source, and the license costs 200$, plus an annual renewal fee of 99$. Two reasons that people sometimes argue for not investing in RM are: - It's closed source, it might disappear at any moment: Actually, RubyMotion is probably more likely to stay in the long term than MacRuby was at the beginning. Despite Apple being a huge company, MacRuby was kind of an experiment that they could kill at any moment. For HipByte (the company behind Rubymotion), Rubymotion is its main product and the one that pays its employees. They are way more interested in watching RM succeed than Apple was in watching MacRuby succeed. - It's too expensive: for playing around or releasing a pet project or free app that is not one of your ways of income, that might be the case. However, for a company or individual that wants to develop a product from which they hope to get some revenue, that price is ridiculous. I've seen PHP libraries for creating web forms more expensive than RubyMotion (nothing against those libraries). We're talking about a static compiler and a whole toolchain for developing iOS apps. If you're a student and want to play around with RubyMotion, there is a student discount available (send them an email for more information). So my conclusion is: If you want to develop OSX applications and you liked MacRuby, invest in getting a RubyMotion license, you probably won't be disappointed. Mark. On Thursday, May 16, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Christopher S Martin wrote: They recently added support for OS X to rubymotion: http://blog.rubymotion.com/post/49943751398/rubymotion-goes-2-0-and-gets-os-x-support-templates That said, since rubymotion is (I believe) based off of macruby with some additions specifically around static compilation of apps, I don't know if the issues around GC/ARC would be any better in rubymotion on OS X, as I've only used it for iOS. On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Jeff Dyck fsjj...@gmail.com (mailto:fsjj...@gmail.com) wrote: Just wanted to add a ditto to this - I'm looking at migrating some old AppleScript Studio projects to MacRuby - my initial testing about a year ago was great, but it seems the stability of MacRuby as a development platform is in question to me at least... I've already been abandoned by AppleScript Studio, don't really want to have to go through relearning a new language and migrating projects a third time. I'm seeing a few comments on RubyMotion - does that work for
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
@John Labovitz, you're able to run your ruby script in Rubymotion just like in Macruby, the only thing you'll need to do is to replace *#!/usr/local/bin/macruby *with* #!/Library/RubyMotion/bin/ruby *and you're ready to go. cheers, Mateus On Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:24:07 PM UTC+2, John Labovitz wrote: Many of my personal MacRuby projects are somewhat peculiar in that they not only avoid Xcode and Interface builder, they aren't even application bundles. Instead, they're just Ruby files with an executable bit that I run from the command line. Do you know whether this mode of development is supported under RubyMotion for OS X apps? Or do they presume that you're building packages? --John On 16 May 2013, at 11:51 AM, Andy Stechishin andy.st...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: @Shaun: I think RubyMotion 2 is that offering. @Mark: Well said. I dabbled in MacRuby and thought it would be great if 'they' could get something going for IOS. MY first thought when RubyMotion came out was I needed to buy a license to support HipByte, I have never regretted this and bought my extension last week. The paradigm for RubyMotion has been to step outside the Apple Toolchain to allow developers to produce applications with ease. I am pleased to see this continue in the Cocoa application space. And, the community is almost worth the price of admission alone. :) Heck, I am already giving Apple a hundred bucks a year, so giving Laurent another hundred to actually build in a language I like isn't that much more. Andy Stechishin (lurker) On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Shaun August sau...@me.comjavascript: wrote: I would like to see Laurent and Hipbyte offer a paid version of MacRuby with the same pricing structure as RubyMotion. I'd buy it... -- Shaun On Thursday, 16 May, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Mark Villacampa wrote: I'm a longtime RubyMotion user, and MacRuby user before that. I want to share my view as to what is the current status of MacRuby and what can happen in the future. The momentum around MacRuby has been inexistent for almost a year and a half. That is, since Laurent Sansonetti (the original creator of MacRuby) left Apple, and that left the project without maintainers who were being paid to work on it. Only Watson and a couple other maintainers have been doing maintenance work and fixing a couple of bugs. Since nobody is being paid to maintain it, and (AFAIK) there is no company/individual whose main/critical systems depended on MacRuby, nobody has taken over the project. This is pretty much a chicken-egg situation. That said, a year ago, Laurent launched RubyMotion, a product based on MacRuby which introduces many new features, such as an ARC based memory model, and iOS support (dropping OSX support). Just a few days ago, in the first anniversary of RubyMotion, they introduced OSX support. Rubymotion is not open source, and the license costs 200$, plus an annual renewal fee of 99$. Two reasons that people sometimes argue for not investing in RM are: - It's closed source, it might disappear at any moment: Actually, RubyMotion is probably more likely to stay in the long term than MacRuby was at the beginning. Despite Apple being a huge company, MacRuby was kind of an experiment that they could kill at any moment. For HipByte (the company behind Rubymotion), Rubymotion is its main product and the one that pays its employees. They are way more interested in watching RM succeed than Apple was in watching MacRuby succeed. - It's too expensive: for playing around or releasing a pet project or free app that is not one of your ways of income, that might be the case. However, for a company or individual that wants to develop a product from which they hope to get some revenue, that price is ridiculous. I've seen PHP libraries for creating web forms more expensive than RubyMotion (nothing against those libraries). We're talking about a static compiler and a whole toolchain for developing iOS apps. If you're a student and want to play around with RubyMotion, there is a student discount available (send them an email for more information). So my conclusion is: If you want to develop OSX applications and you liked MacRuby, invest in getting a RubyMotion license, you probably won't be disappointed. Mark. On Thursday, May 16, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Christopher S Martin wrote: They recently added support for OS X to rubymotion: http://blog.rubymotion.com/post/49943751398/rubymotion-goes-2-0-and-gets-os-x-support-templates That said, since rubymotion is (I believe) based off of macruby with some additions specifically around static compilation of apps, I don't know if the issues around GC/ARC would be any better in rubymotion on OS
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
IMHO MacRuby and now Rubymotion apps deployment is really reasy. To create a release version of a .app in RubyMotion you just rake release and you're done. For cross-platform development with Qt, Tk or wx, the situation in Python has always been better than in Ruby. I don't know how we'll maintained the ruby bindings for each of those GUI toolkits are, but packaging and deployment of such apps has always been a pain even in Python. I don't know if a toolkit-indepented ruby2app library would be the solution. Too many differences between them. If only each of the bindings had nice a packing workflow for each OS... On Thursday, May 16, 2013 at 11:32 PM, Kevin Walzer wrote: On 5/16/13 2:38 PM, Mark Villacampa wrote: The momentum around MacRuby has been inexistent for almost a year and a half. That is, since Laurent Sansonetti (the original creator of MacRuby) left Apple, and that left the project without maintainers who were being paid to work on it. Only Watson and a couple other maintainers have been doing maintenance work and fixing a couple of bugs. Since nobody is being paid to maintain it, and (AFAIK) there is no company/individual whose main/critical systems depended on MacRuby, nobody has taken over the project. This is pretty much a chicken-egg situation. It's unfortunate that MacRuby is suffering from bit-rot, but it was not an optimal solution for desktop development in any event. It was incompatible with standard Ruby in subtle ways, and was an incomplete implementation. Standard Ruby has nice bindings to several UI toolkits (Qt, Tk, wx) and can access Cocoa API's via Tim Burks' under-documented rubyobjc module, but it too has problems for desktop apps. Everything kind of falls apart when you look for available deployment tools outside of those that are tightly bound to RubyCocoa or MacRuby (i.e. standaloneify). It would be really great if someone could put together ruby2app (Ruby version of py2app) in a way that would work with any Ruby libraries, not just Cocoa ones. But I'm not going to hold my breath. --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org (mailto:MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org) https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel ___ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macruby-devel
Re: [MacRuby-devel] OS X10.9 MacRuby's future...
I've changed my mind. :-) I translated part of a project into Obj-C, and it just wasn't the same. I *like* the Ruby language, and while MacRuby has its foibles, it's still very good. Here's my reasoning: Apple isn't going to do a consumer release of 10.9 any time soon - according to the press reports I've read, it's being tested by them, but the first developer release isn't expected until WWDC in June. There's going to be a round of beta's, release candidates and so on, as per normal, and then it'll have the consumer release, maybe by October, perhaps November. I'm certainly not expecting anything as early as September! Now, if I keep up with using MacRuby, I then have the option of either expanding my knowledge of MacRuby internals in meantime *and* be in a position to use RubyMotion. If I switch to Obj-C now, switching to RubyMotion or a newer MacRuby later will be either more work or not worth it. Meanwhile, MacRuby works on Mountain Lion and while, as I said, it has it foibles, it's still a lot more pleasurable writing code in Ruby than it is in Obj-C! I think that makes sense? Thanks again for the conversation! :-) Carolyn On May 16, 2013, at 3:05 PM, Carolyn Ann Grant carolyn.ann.gr...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Mark! Yeah, I know the price is more than reasonable, Mark, it's just that right now, we're not in a position to afford much of anything. Without getting too personal, we're still digging out from the Great Recession, which hit my family pretty hard. (As they say in DC, mistakes were made, and I seem to have gone out of my way to make sure they were doozies!) I agree that HipByte is likely to work toward their own success; I'll definitely be looking at them when I can. I think at this point, I have to stick to Objective-C, as much as I really don't want to. Ruby is just so much better! As for why, I need to have confidence that I'm not investing a large amount of time and effort into something that I'll have to abandon when OS X 10.9 comes out. I've chased more than a few promising technologies, only to see them wither on the vine, so to speak. I've made such a habit of it, that I was beginning to think that if I was interested in something, it was likely on its way out! At this point, I simply can't afford to do that again. So while I'm not delighted to be writing code in Obj-C, at least I know it's going to be around for a few years. And I don't have to try and figure out what I did wrong with bridge support files, etc. I am disappointed, and I do wish I had the time and knowledge to further MacRuby, but I have to prioritize what gets my attention and what I'd like to do but can't. Thank you, all! :-) /Carolyn On May 16, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Mark Villacampa markv...@gmail.com wrote: I'm a longtime RubyMotion user, and MacRuby user before that. I want to share my view as to what is the current status of MacRuby and what can happen in the future. The momentum around MacRuby has been inexistent for almost a year and a half. That is, since Laurent Sansonetti (the original creator of MacRuby) left Apple, and that left the project without maintainers who were being paid to work on it. Only Watson and a couple other maintainers have been doing maintenance work and fixing a couple of bugs. Since nobody is being paid to maintain it, and (AFAIK) there is no company/individual whose main/critical systems depended on MacRuby, nobody has taken over the project. This is pretty much a chicken-egg situation. That said, a year ago, Laurent launched RubyMotion, a product based on MacRuby which introduces many new features, such as an ARC based memory model, and iOS support (dropping OSX support). Just a few days ago, in the first anniversary of RubyMotion, they introduced OSX support. Rubymotion is not open source, and the license costs 200$, plus an annual renewal fee of 99$. Two reasons that people sometimes argue for not investing in RM are: - It's closed source, it might disappear at any moment: Actually, RubyMotion is probably more likely to stay in the long term than MacRuby was at the beginning. Despite Apple being a huge company, MacRuby was kind of an experiment that they could kill at any moment. For HipByte (the company behind Rubymotion), Rubymotion is its main product and the one that pays its employees. They are way more interested in watching RM succeed than Apple was in watching MacRuby succeed. - It's too expensive: for playing around or releasing a pet project or free app that is not one of your ways of income, that might be the case. However, for a company or individual that wants to develop a product from which they hope to get some revenue, that price is ridiculous. I've seen PHP libraries for creating web forms more expensive than RubyMotion (nothing against those libraries). We're talking about a static compiler and a whole toolchain for
