RE: Fremantle Community SSU
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Andrew Flegg Sent: 2. marraskuuta 2010 10:38 To: Vollmer Marius (Nokia-MS/Helsinki) Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Fremantle Community SSU On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 08:32, Marius Vollmer marius.voll...@nokia.com wrote: ext Niels Breet ni...@maemo.org writes: Problem Mohammad faced here is that HAM holds a lock, so you can't run apt-get in the background. This is why he needs to open the xterm and ask the user to close HAM. Yes. But what about launching that script from a launcher entry instead of asking people to type something into an xterm? I think that inspires a bit more confidence. The way it's supposed to work (worked for X-Fade, but not me) is that the X Terminal opens running a script which says Please close HAM and press enter; any remaining dpkg-lock holding processes will be killed. TBH, I wonder whether that's really necessary - presumably it's possible via D-Bus to open HAM in check for upgrade mode (i.e. what the notifier status menu applet does). What if the postinst starts a nohup task which: 1) sleeps for some period of time (say, 5-10 seconds) 2) asks HAM to quit (simulating a close button press or just killall) 3) restarts HAM in check for upgrades mode. The user would have fewer interactions (clicking the Update all button in HAM, once restarted) and it'd be more seamless and, according to my gut, less prone to error. My opinion only, but to me it sounds a bit overkill. Why not simplify and have an enabler package that installs the repo, the new mp- package and makes sure the community ssu repo is at the proper security level. Then the user can go and press the update button as much as they like. Setting up SSU is a onetime thing, using it should be long term. If I get the update right now or tomorrow morning will not turn my world upside down. Tero Thoughts? Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ Maemo Community Council member ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: New Fremantle SDK major update
It is SDK PR 1.3. Tero From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Luca Donaggio Sent: 25. lokakuuta 2010 12:06 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: New Fremantle SDK major update This morning I just did my usual 'apt-get update;apt-get upgrade' in Scratchbox (FREMANTLE_X86) and got: 622 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 6 not upgraded. Need to get 82.1MB of archives. After unpacking 25.1MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? while 'apt-cache policy maemo-version' returned: maemo-version: Installed: 5.0update6+0m5 Candidate: 5.0update7 is it in prep for the upcomin PR 1.3? -- Luca Donaggio ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: New Fremantle SDK major update
Normal upgrade is enough. Tero From: ext Luca Donaggio [mailto:donag...@gmail.com] Sent: 25. lokakuuta 2010 12:24 To: Kojo Tero (Nokia-MS/Helsinki) Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: New Fremantle SDK major update Thanks Tero! Would an apt-get upgrade be enough or do we need a dist-upgrade? On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 11:09 AM, tero.k...@nokia.commailto:tero.k...@nokia.com wrote: It is SDK PR 1.3. Tero From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.orgmailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.orgmailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Luca Donaggio Sent: 25. lokakuuta 2010 12:06 To: maemo-developers@maemo.orgmailto:maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: New Fremantle SDK major update This morning I just did my usual 'apt-get update;apt-get upgrade' in Scratchbox (FREMANTLE_X86) and got: 622 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 6 not upgraded. Need to get 82.1MB of archives. After unpacking 25.1MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? while 'apt-cache policy maemo-version' returned: maemo-version: Installed: 5.0update6+0m5 Candidate: 5.0update7 is it in prep for the upcomin PR 1.3? -- Luca Donaggio -- Luca Donaggio ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Noob question
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Eino-Ville Talvala Sent: 05 August, 2010 21:14 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Noob question Gerard, As part of the FCam project web pages (it's a camera control API for the N900, though that doesn't matter for your question), we wrote up an lengthy 'getting started with N900 development' guide, aimed at people using the Nokia Qt SDK with no previous experience. The first part gets the SDK set up and talking to your N900, the second half is FCam-specific and wouldn't matter to you now. I'd recommend you take a look at the first part and see if that'll let you figure out what might be wrong: http://fcam.garage.maemo.org/gettingStarted.html That is one well written guide. Thank you! Tero Good luck! Eino-Ville (Eddy) Talvala FCam Camera Control API Stanford University On 8/5/2010 7:36 AM, Gerard Daams wrote: Embarassed to have to ask this. 1. After installing QT 4.7 on Windows, I do not see Maemo as a target in QT designer. 2. MADDE on the N900 works after the instructions, but on Windows I cannot execute any commands. Terminal window starts but mad commands cannot be found with /bin/mad: line 23: __ml_path__/madlib/madlib.sh: No such file or directory error. I have set the Path to c:\NokiaQtSDK\Maemo\4.6.2\ but that has not solved it. Consequently the connection between the pc and the N900 fails as well. Please help Thanks Gerard -- Ovi Mail: Making email access easy http://mail.ovi.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: QT map widget
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Till Harbaum Sent: 11 June, 2010 12:03 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: QT map widget Hi, with the switch to qt i think there's a need for a qt map widget. I really see a need for a unified widget to be used by all applications. The current situation with multiple different map widgets on maemo5 shows what imho should be prevented: - They store cached tiles at different locations wasting bandwidth as well as device flash space - No central point for map maintenance (e.g. cleaning the map cache or downloading entire areas into the cache for offline usage) - No easy and central way to add new map sources - The overall look and feel is different although they intend to provide similar function - Some widgets work behind network proxies, some don't - None of these widgets is really developer friendly I agree with those. Sampo Savola, the author of ecoach suggested to think about a qt map widget. I am also interested in this as i am the author of osm2go, maep and gpxview. Who else would like to contribute to this? I'd like to make sure that such a widget satisfies most developers need to be able to address above issues with one single qt map widget. It looks like the people at Qt are thinking of this as well. http://qt.nokia.com/developer/qt-roadmap/ mentions Maps/Navigation API and while the details are really scarce (it's only a roadmap, so that is expected), it does state that: Provides an API to access maps, landmarks and route information for navigation. Now just to find some troll from Qt who could open that up a bit. Tero A start may be this widget: http://medieninf.de/qmapcontrol/ Till ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: extras-devel .install files issue
The N900 automatically inserts the proper dist when you open the install file in Application manager. fremantle-1.2 for PR1.2 and just fremantle for all prior PR's Could you describe what the problem you exactly were experiencing and where? Tero From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Daniil Ivanov [daniil.iva...@gmail.com] Sent: 10 June 2010 14:00 To: Antonio Aloisio Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: extras-devel .install files issue Hi Antonio! Extras has it, but extras-devel not. At least at the moment of writing this. Thanks, Daniil. On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Antonio Aloisio antonio.aloi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ram, According to [1] there is just one devel repsitory and it's fremantle. Btw extras has the fremantle-1.2 rep too. Cheers, Antonio [1] http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/ On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Ram Kurvakat rkma...@gmx.com wrote: is it dist = fremantle or dist = fremantle-1.2 ? I thought the latter is linked to the PR1.2 repos, or has it changed ? Ive had similar issues with .install files. Thanks for raising it Daniil. Regards, -krk969 - Original Message - From: Daniil Ivanov Sent: 06/10/10 11:24 AM To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: extras-devel .install files issue Hi all! It seems that are the problems http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/install/ and that dist = fremantle should be added to the .install files. Thanks, Daniil. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: extras-devel .install files issue
Utterly missed the link, sorry about that. (wans't really aware that we have .install files for extras-devel :) ) Looks like a case for.. the admin! Niels? Tero From: ext Daniil Ivanov [daniil.iva...@gmail.com] Sent: 10 June 2010 17:24 To: Kojo Tero (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Cc: antonio.aloi...@gmail.com; maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: extras-devel .install files issue Hi Tero! The problem is that there is no fremantle-1.2 for extras-devel. Thanks, Daniil. On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 5:21 PM, tero.k...@nokia.com wrote: The N900 automatically inserts the proper dist when you open the install file in Application manager. fremantle-1.2 for PR1.2 and just fremantle for all prior PR's Could you describe what the problem you exactly were experiencing and where? Tero From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Daniil Ivanov [daniil.iva...@gmail.com] Sent: 10 June 2010 14:00 To: Antonio Aloisio Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: extras-devel .install files issue Hi Antonio! Extras has it, but extras-devel not. At least at the moment of writing this. Thanks, Daniil. On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Antonio Aloisio antonio.aloi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ram, According to [1] there is just one devel repsitory and it's fremantle. Btw extras has the fremantle-1.2 rep too. Cheers, Antonio [1] http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/ On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Ram Kurvakat rkma...@gmx.com wrote: is it dist = fremantle or dist = fremantle-1.2 ? I thought the latter is linked to the PR1.2 repos, or has it changed ? Ive had similar issues with .install files. Thanks for raising it Daniil. Regards, -krk969 - Original Message - From: Daniil Ivanov Sent: 06/10/10 11:24 AM To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: extras-devel .install files issue Hi all! It seems that are the problems http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/install/ and that dist = fremantle should be added to the .install files. Thanks, Daniil. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: PR1.2 for an old proto
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Aniello Del Sorbo Sent: 25 May, 2010 19:01 To: Akos Polster Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: PR1.2 for an old proto Is this a pre-production device ? Yes it is. Anything before the 09 summit needs a pre-production image. Please ping me or Daniel. Tero Yellow label next to the battery with an L4 on it ? If so I am having issues as well in flashing the device.. On 25 May 2010 07:41, Akos Polster a...@pipacs.com wrote: Hi, while waiting for my N900 to be delivered, my company gave me an old prototype (hardware revision 1802). Unfortunately this is too old for the PR1.2 image on tablet-devs.nokia.com. Is waiting for the new device the only option, or is there a way to install PR1.2 on this old proto? Thanks ~ Akos. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- anidel ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Autobuilder maintenance break now.
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Timo Härkönen Sent: 25 May, 2010 14:24 To: ni...@maemo.org Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Autobuilder maintenance break now. Hi 2010/5/25 Niels Breet ni...@maemo.org Hi, The autobuilder will be updated to the latest Maemo 5 SDK to align with the PR1.2 release. During the update the incoming queue for the builder will be paused. Update will take about half an hour. Will the promotion block for Qt 4.6 apps be lifted at the same time? Yes :) Tero -Timo ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Autobuilder maintenance break now.
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of Kojo Tero (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Sent: 25 May, 2010 14:33 To: timop.harko...@gmail.com; ni...@maemo.org Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: RE: Autobuilder maintenance break now. -Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Timo Härkönen Sent: 25 May, 2010 14:24 To: ni...@maemo.org Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Autobuilder maintenance break now. Hi 2010/5/25 Niels Breet ni...@maemo.org Hi, The autobuilder will be updated to the latest Maemo 5 SDK to align with the PR1.2 release. During the update the incoming queue for the builder will be paused. Update will take about half an hour. Will the promotion block for Qt 4.6 apps be lifted at the same time? Yes :) Ok, on request correcting myself :) The ban won't be lifted. But repackaging to point to the proper 4.6 libraries in the SDK (and device) will let you get those 4.6 dependent apps forward. Tero -Timo ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Why should I write apps for Maemo?
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Nicola Mfb Sent: 07 May, 2010 11:34 To: Andrea Grandi Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Why should I write apps for Maemo? On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Andrea Grandi a.gra...@gmail.com wrote: [...] I was wondering the same thing: why is it so hard to provide a 1.1.2 image with Qt 4.6.2 installed? Hindsight 20/20. Back when 1.2 was first considered Qt 4.6 was in alpha or beta. Beta software does not go into a pr release. Later on when 4.6 got final it might have made sense, but as Eero said, the release is based on quality and not calendar. And the 1.2 tree had moved forward a lot in that time. +1 If PR 1.2 has too many problems to be released before *few* days, please release a 1.1.2 with the updated qt, actually having skype videocalls or other few things is secondary for the long term success of your strategy. Because it would have to be tested to the same extent as the 1.2 image. And that is not a few days. Look, the N900 is a consumer electronics device. That means that normal people, like your mother, the guy you passed on the street and the person drinking coffee in a cafe use it. Those people cannot handle crashes and bad quality. It really is that simple. Tero I think you have all the interest to have a community of qt developers around the n900/maemo that may be already mature when symbian v3/meego will be available, delaying that process further may be very dangerous. Regards Niko ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Cannot install Maemo SDK 1.2 in Ubuntu Lucid: dependencies problems
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Andrea Grandi Sent: 01 May, 2010 01:55 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Cannot install Maemo SDK 1.2 in Ubuntu Lucid: dependencies problems Hi all, I'm trying to install Maemo SDK on my pc with Ubuntu Lucid and I'm getting some errors. I've tried both the gui-installer, both the usual scripts way. I've no problem installing maemo-scratchbox and until this point all is fine. When I try to install maemo-sdk inside Scratchbox, I begin getting some dependencies problems. I wasn't able to log all the errors, but you can view a big part here: http://pastebin.com/g76yD1jG How can I fix this? Try: ~# echo 0 /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr At least that is what people more knowledgeable than me tell to do. It has something to do with the recent kernels and QEMU. Tero Thanks for your help! -- Andrea Grandi email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com website: http://www.andreagrandi.it PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Squeeze devkit to be installed to autobuilder
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Javier S. Pedro Sent: 16 April, 2010 01:40 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Squeeze devkit to be installed to autobuilder Graham Cobb wrote: By the way, has the change been well tested? With real packages built with the modified SDK and installed on all existing firmware releases? We don't want to do all this and discover it doesn't fix the problem. We built quite a lot of packages [1], checked sanity of dependencies and I also tested a few on my device (1.1.1). It fixes the problem. Feel free to test some of them :) Have tested a couple on a 1.2 device (but that was to be expected). Works well as far as I can see. Quite an impressive task you guys have done! Tero We expect most of the issues to appear in the building stage, and testing seems to prove this. [1] https://garage.maemo.org/builder/.fremantletest/__packages__/ -- Javier ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Is maemo.org web site down?
Yes, the site was down in the morning. Apparently the cache used for http decided to have 0 sized files in it. Tero -Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext ianaré sévi Sent: 29 March, 2010 09:27 To: Sascha Mäkelä Cc: maemo-developers Subject: Re: Is maemo.org web site down? Same here. Package viewer (http://maemo.org/packages/) appears down too. - ianaré sévi 2010/3/29 Sascha Mäkelä sascha.mak...@gmail.com: Is it only me or is the maemo.org site down? I only get a blank page. Cheers, Sascha ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Developer documentation survey for the Maemo Community
Maemo Community, tell us how it is! How is Maemo developer documentation? How should it be improved? We want to hear it straight from You. Maemo developer documentation survey consists of 16 questions. Take a few minutes to think about the developer documentation available for Maemo (in Maemo.org, for example) and answer the questions at: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/2Y8TDXD The survey will be available until 6 April 2010. Your feedback is appreciated! ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: MADDE and Qt4.6
- Original message - Hi, I know that MADDE is not official supported. I have try to use it with Qt4.6 and Qt Creator, I have used versions 1.3.80 (as in http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE/QtCreator_integration_for_windows) and 1.3.81 and 2.0.0alpha1. Qt4.6 was taked from http://chaos.troll.no/~harald/MADDE. I have try on Linux and Windows with the same result in QtCreator: The Qt Version has no toolchain. Qt4.5.3 from MADDE works well with QTCreator (any version, any platform). Any sugestions how to make it work? My suggestion would be to wait for the next Maemo 5 update, in which Qt 4.6 will be included. And, sorry no I can't share any details of when that is. It is possible to glue 4.6 on top of the current Madde, but as far as I know it is complicated. You would need to modify the toolchain and the libraries used for cross compiling. Tero Thanks Krzysiek Attachment ATT1..txt ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Extras-testing improvements
- Original message - On Tuesday 09 of March 2010, Graham Cobb wrote: The community needs a place where **every** app passes through a very basic QA to try to make sure it is safe and it is then available. That is what Extras is. IMHO, that's not extras. Currently extras is the elite of maemo's software. Explaining: Asking for 10 votes for each version of each application is something that I call paranoia in software development. For example: I've a fully optified app that works without problem, but will never be promoted to extras because there are not enough developers with interest in it (more specifically: women). That is a problem that needs a solution. The niche products need to reach extras too. But the audience of extras is very different and there would be interested audience if it were there. What's the reasoning of asking 10 people to do the same thing? This is now popularity contest instead of a QA process. Popular apps among developers (techie guys) advance. Non-popular apps wait. Assuming that the QA process is a serious process, asking 10 people to do the exact same thing isn't serious. If those ten people are all doing the same thing I would be surprised. Ten people, ten different test styles. If the check is performed correctly, you should need at most 2 persons. If the check if not performed correctly then 10 is not enough. I suggest you take a look at debian's method. Having a kind of maemo- developers that act responsibly, certifying applications would be a good solution. Currently the vote of a person without any programming abilities is the same with a person's that can program and have performed the checks. The best solution IMHO would be for Nokia to have 1 or 2 people to do this job responsibly instead of relying on statistical methods. Now you are mixing Nokia with the Community. The two are different. The reasoning behind the number of people is that people behave differently and having just one person go through the app will not cover the use cases of any app. Also it would leave the system wide open for gaming it. I have no idea what is the optimal number of people, but it is not 1-2. That would also be very good support of the community efforts and would boost software development. After all, the applications in extras is a big part of the (future) value of maemo/meego. Could you elaborate? How does Nokia testers boost development? I can't follow that logic, but I agree that having good quality open source software is important. Tero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.orgmailto:maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
MobileDevCamp Helsinki competition
Hi, As part of MobileDevCamp [1], there is a 48 hour developer competition. Write a cool app in 48 hours to win a good prize. The topic and rules will be announced today at 17:00 (EET). Sign up [3], be creative and make good apps! Tero [1] http://mobiledevcamp.fi/ [2] http://wiki.maemo.org/Mobile_Dev_Camp_2010 [3] http://wiki.maemo.org/MDC#Participants_list ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: MobileDevCamp Helsinki competition
The topic is now live, directly from http://wiki.maemo.org/Mobile_Dev_Camp_2010#Competition : To win the contest write an application in Qt for Maemo or Symbian, ideally for both, which: * uses the QtNetwork module, * integrates some aspect of the social web AND * the general topic is OUTSIDE Be creative! Interpret the rules! And start coding now! The best application will be selected by a jury. Looking forward to seeing you on Saturday! And the prize for the winner is an N900 if the app works on N900, an N97 if it runs on Symbian and _both_ if it runs on both. Tero -Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of Kojo Tero (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Sent: 25 February, 2010 14:13 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: MobileDevCamp Helsinki competition Hi, As part of MobileDevCamp [1], there is a 48 hour developer competition. Write a cool app in 48 hours to win a good prize. The topic and rules will be announced today at 17:00 (EET). Sign up [3], be creative and make good apps! Tero [1] http://mobiledevcamp.fi/ [2] http://wiki.maemo.org/Mobile_Dev_Camp_2010 [3] http://wiki.maemo.org/MDC#Participants_list ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Maemo 5 PR1.2 and Extras
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Niels Breet Sent: 24 February, 2010 14:19 To: Attila Csipa Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Maemo 5 PR1.2 and Extras On Wednesday 24 February 2010 12:21:45 Niels Breet wrote: What happens to apps (especially those with Qt dependencies) _currently_ in Extras, i.e., how will they get to the fremantle1.2 Extras repo ? The Qt apps are currently blocked from being promoted to prevent issues. The fremantle-1.2 repository will probably need to be 'legacy' clean. Qt 4.5.3 is not available in Extras and will probably not be available on any repository enabled by default on the device. This means that applications depending on this, will not work. Those applications need actual changes to work with Qt4.6 iirc. Some may and some don't. Some Qt apps compiled against 4.5 will work with 4.6 without any issues. I do not know which part of the ABI has changed, so no idea what would break. Sorry, no statistics on this one, just some small personal tests. To be safe it would make sense to recompile the Qt apps with the 1.2 SDK when letting them to Fremantle-1.2. Tero Regards, Attila -- Niels Breet maemo.org webmaster ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: MeeGarage ?
No need for packing anything. The garage will stay there in place as is. It is not something that can be just closed down. Could you post an exact link to where you see the merge info? If the garage at some point were to merge with the MeeGo garage, that will most definitely be discussed well in time with the community. No discussion, no merge, as simple as that. Tero From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Attila Csipa Sent: 15 February, 2010 22:14 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: MeeGarage ? The meego.com site is announcing being in the process of merging moblin and maemo garages. As someone who has a few projects on garage.maemo.org, it would be nice to have a few general remarks from the Maemo side of this merger as to what the future holds, should we mentally prepare to pack our bags, VCS', etc. Regards, Attila ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: MeeGarage ?
-Original Message- From: ext archebyte . [mailto:archeb...@gmail.com] Sent: 16 February, 2010 15:04 To: Kojo Tero (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Cc: ma...@csipa.in.rs; maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: MeeGarage ? Could you post an exact link to where you see the merge info? http://meego.com/garage Right now, we are working on merging the two garages, but it's not quite ready (there's a lot of cool stuff!) Check back soon. Thanks, I can't understand how I missed that. I did read the page when I saw the first mail in this thread. Anyhow, it's corrected now. Tero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Lists and mail down for a while very soon now
Hi, To fix the problems with the infra, lists and smtp will be down for a while. Some patches requiring reboots will be installed on the servers. This will result in a couple of reboots during the next hours. And some downtime. Thank you, Tero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Lists and mail down for a while very soon now
And the lists should be back again. Tero -Original Message- From: maemo-community-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-community- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of Kojo Tero (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Sent: 27 January, 2010 12:15 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org; maemo-commun...@maemo.org Subject: Lists and mail down for a while very soon now Hi, To fix the problems with the infra, lists and smtp will be down for a while. Some patches requiring reboots will be installed on the servers. This will result in a couple of reboots during the next hours. And some downtime. Thank you, Tero ___ maemo-community mailing list maemo-commun...@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: How to remove / rename a package in the devel repository?
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Giorgos Logiotatidis Sent: 27 January, 2010 02:34 To: ni...@maemo.org Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: How to remove / rename a package in the devel repository? On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 16:26 +0100, Niels Breet wrote: On Mon, January 25, 2010 13:55, Giorgos Logiotatidis wrote: Hello, Hi, I uploaded in devel repo 'greeceiradio' package but since a better name is 'greekiradio' I re-uploaded the package with the second name. Now both packages exist in the devel repo and I want to delete the old 'greeceiradio'. I've removed it for you. I just checked and the 'greeceiradio' package is still in the repository. Do you mind checking this again ? You can see the package in the repository, but it is not in the Packages file any more, and thus not visible on device. This is due to the Akamai caching network keeping the packages for some days before dropping them completely. Tero thanks! -g ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: How to destroy your community
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of Vollmer Marius (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Sent: 21 January, 2010 09:03 To: ext Dave Neary Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: How to destroy your community ext Dave Neary dne...@maemo.org writes: I guess that the problem is that you demand rather than request. Dave, for effs sake, Joe is not trying to get something for him and he is not getting angry because he isn't getting it. Joe is pointing out opportunities for Maemo's improvement and he is getting irritated because we are not honest with ourselves and try to dismiss that there are problems to begin with[1]. There are problems sure, that bit is apparent. Do you really think any party (community, admins, ISP, me) is right now happy at how the ISP has handled the case? No. If anyone has a blade rack with roughly fifteen blades, a few teras of netapp and fast connections handy, and is willing to watch it 24/7, give root access and guarantee that it will be there for the next three to five years, please step forward. I would love to get that somewhere. But ranting on this list will not help. There is a process set up for community work (by the community) with the idea of monthly sprints (http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints). You want changes, you are more than welcome to the sprint meeting and take tasks to get things done. It is very easy for Joe to just go away or to shut up, without any loss to him. We should be happy that he doesn't, it would be a loss for us. He can do good for maemo.org, and I wouldn't be surprised if he can do more good than many of our paid sysapes. Get him root access already. Give root access to a person who walks in here and starts shouting? Are you serious? No smileys, so I assume you are. Marius, I want root access on all your machines. I want it, now! :) Also Marius, would you watch your language. Calling people names is rude. It gives a bad picture of your character, and is against netiquette. You should know better, it's not a kindergarten. Tero [1] And no, we are working hard to improving things is not good enough. Even the way we implement improvements needs to be improved. Please show up at the next monthly sprint meeting and take some tasks to improve things then. How much time and energy are you willing to pitch in personally? ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: How to destroy your community
-Original Message- From: ext Stephan Jaensch [mailto:s...@sjaensch.org] Sent: 21 January, 2010 14:24 To: Kojo Tero (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Cc: maemo-developers mailing-list Subject: Re: How to destroy your community Hi Tero, Am 21.01.2010 um 12:56 schrieb tero.k...@nokia.com tero.k...@nokia.com: There are problems sure, that bit is apparent. Do you really think any party (community, admins, ISP, me) is right now happy at how the ISP has handled the case? No. Well then, what is being done to make sure something like this doesn't happen again? And just for clarity: I don't see the ISP being the root cause of the problem here. The question is: how could roughly fifteen blades, a few teras of netapp end up at such a bad ISP? Isn't it common sense to use an ISP that one has prior experience with and hopefully a known contact? Who made this decision? Was that person fit (qualified) to make this decision? If not, is he still responsible for these kinds of decisions? Large publicly listed companies have very strict rules when using money. There's even a law about it in the USA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes_oxley) That has the implication that a listed company cannot buy from wherever, and that limits the choices considerably. To have some other instance run the servers would be perfect. However as stated somewhere earlier in this thread, there is no entity that could make legally binding contracts on behalf of the community. So the solution right now is to talk more to the ISP to get the issue fixed and make sure that they understand the nature of maemo.org (the site and the community). And point to the simple fact that the SLA has an uptime number which they themselves agreed to. Getting that somewhere is obviously not the issue at all, for the right price. And I'm guessing money is not the issue either. So it's just about having someone who has experience and the right contacts in this regard to make the proper choice. Somewhere is the issue. The list of places is limited. Contacts will not help. This naturally applies only to large publicly listed companies. I don't think that I'm ranting. I'm trying to get to the root of the problem here. This might be an important discussion since it's possible not all of us agree about the root cause. No you are making a good discussion. I appreciate it. But people's feelings seem to be generally running hot in this thread. Jeff was shouting? I would rather characterize him as one of the (if not the) most valued community contributors in regards to maemo.org infrastructure. Just take a look at http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba. He was the only one (!) being able to provide maemo.org repository access during the server move. I think he has proven that he is capable and can be trusted. I agree, Jeff is a guy who can do things. He definitely is nice to have around. Trusted, maybe you are right. I have no idea. Not my call either. So tell me Tero, what are the criteria for getting root access? Is this a community, i.e. a meritocracy? It is a community issue, you need to ask the community. Personally I do not have shell accounts (let alone root) on any maemo.org machine. I wouldn't deserve them, I'm not a sysadmin. And neither can I invent any good reason to ask for them. If you have been here long enough, you know that in the beginning (four-five years ago) maemo.org was pretty much run by Nokia. That all has been changing slowly but surely. And nowadays maemo.org is community run. Sure Nokia sponsors the servers, but as said there is no other entity to do that right now. it's not a kindergarten. Exactly, it is not. It's high time people started being accountable for their performance. Yes, that's why there are legal agreements called contracts in place. But those do not prevent technical failures, they only make sure that there are penalties for cases where things have not gone as agreed. And penalties do not generally make anyone happy. So the solution is to work more with the ISP to make sure they get things fixed and right. And the people who do admin work for the community are pretty much working their ass off right now, as they have for the past two months. I'm not quite sure everyone understands that there are about two people doing admin work in maemo.org, and what services the site has overall. Please show up at the next monthly sprint meeting and take some tasks to improve things then. How much time and energy are you willing to pitch in personally? I'll be there. How much responsibility are you willing to give away? Good to hear! Responsibility is not mine to give away. Ask the council, Niels or Ferenc at the meeting. I am sure there is no end of small tasks that could be done. Tero Cheers, Stephan ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org
RE: How to destroy your community
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Jeff Moe Sent: 19 January, 2010 01:41 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: LCA: How to destroy your community Here is a good article in LWN about a presentation by Josh Berkus. How many of these points apply to Nokia? I'm afraid way too many. http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/370157/2a06baf10df8e58a/ Good read! Some gems: 1) It's also important to set up an official web site which is down as often as it's up. It's not enough to have no web site at all; in such situations, the community has an irritating habit of creating sites of its own. But a flaky site can forestall the creation of those sites, ensuring that information is hard to find. Jeff, you have been hanging around here for what, 2 months? And those two months have been the time in which this place has seen it's biggest growth of all time. Sure that made the system break in the corners, but it's being fixed. Hang around for a couple of more years and then come back with the statistics. 3) There should be no useful information about the code, build methods, the patch submission process, the release process, or anything else. Then, when people ask for help, tell them to RTFM. 4) Project decisions should be made in closed-door meetings. 5) Employ large amounts of legalese. 7) Keep the decision-making powers unclear 8) Screw around with licensing. Community members tend to care a lot about licenses, so changing the licensing can be a good way to make them go elsewhere. Even better is to talk a lot about license changes without actually changing anything; 10) Silence. Don't answer queries, don't say anything. A company which masters this technique may not need any of the others; it is the most effective community destroyer of them all. If you start a discussion in a tone of voice that is asking for a fight, we often disregard the discussion. We aren't here to pick fights, but to try and do something productive. You do get many things done, but your communication style isn't polite. I do understand that controversy can bring about change, but it can also polarize situations. Tero -Jeff ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: repository.maemo.org down
Ok, Thanks for the info. The problem you are seeing is called last mile acceleration and should not be there. It tries to be helpful and opens the zip on the fly for you, which is not what apt-get wants. Mailing support to turn it off. Tero -Original Message- From: ext Ville M. Vainio [mailto:vivai...@gmail.com] Sent: 18 January, 2010 10:08 To: Kojo Tero (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: repository.maemo.org down On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 9:49 AM, tero.k...@nokia.com wrote: Am I the only one that's seeing / being bothered by r.m.o being down? ;-) No you are not the only one. It coming back up now. Needs a dns change that is propagating right now. Yep, my apt-get install finally succeeded. apt-get update (in scratchbox) is still broken though: Get:2 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/non-free Packages [6433B] 51% [1 Packages gzip 0] [2 Packages 241/6433B 3%] gzip: stdin: not in gzip format Err http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/free Packages Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1) Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/free Sources/DiffIndex Get:3 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/free Packages [6433B] 81% [3 Packages 2899/6433B 45%] gzip: stdin: not in gzip format Err http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/non-free Packages Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1) Get:4 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/non-free Packages [6433B] 82% [3 Packages gzip 0] [4 Packages 1975/6433B 30%] gzip: stdin: not in gzip format Err http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/free Packages Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1) 99% [4 Packages gzip 0] [Waiting for headers] -- Ville M. Vainio http://tinyurl.com/vainio ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: repository.maemo.org down
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Ville M. Vainio Sent: 17 January, 2010 22:45 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: repository.maemo.org down Am I the only one that's seeing / being bothered by r.m.o being down? ;-) No you are not the only one. It coming back up now. Needs a dns change that is propagating right now. It's been unaccessible for 2 days, at least from my corner of the internet... Every corner. Tero -- Ville M. Vainio http://tinyurl.com/vainio ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Promotion to extras
It seems that the package entered testing 2010-01-03 20:26 UTC That is from the package event field on the page. So you have about one day and ten hours of waiting left :-) Tero -Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext ds Sent: 11 January, 2010 22:17 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Promotion to extras Hello, some weeks ago I promoted to extras. I could not find any changes. I have Karma 11 in extras testing: Why is there not promotion link now? Last time it was. http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras- testing_free_armel/vncviewer/0.6.4-fremantle2/ thanks a lot Detlef ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Auto builder failure (was [fremantle]: kmplayer 0.10.2-4 FAILED)
Guys, I appreciate the patience you are showing. Truth is we need something that is coming next week. New hardware that builds the repo offline and just pushes it visible (Thanks to Niels for that one). On hardware that beats my laptop (right now my laptop is probably faster...) The current hardware is end of life. To make it somehow chug along till next week we'll be shutting some of the things running on the old server down. Nothing that should impact normal development or use. Also comparing to Fedora is a bit wrong. Extras is updated every hour, to enable developers to upload their stuff all the time to it. It's not a traditional distro in that sense, but extras-devel is more like a repo that is opened to pretty much anyone who wants to upload. So hang on for just a bit more. Not long to go. Tero -Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Jeff Moe Sent: 08 January, 2010 16:07 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Auto builder failure (was [fremantle]: kmplayer 0.10.2-4 FAILED) On Friday 08 January 2010 10:54:36 koos vriezen wrote: FWIW, I think using a BR for all outrages is not the right way, a product in bugzilla might be. This list is another one (normally I just ask Niels, but this time I though a heads-up for all developers was appropriate). Maemo needs something like this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Outage_Infrastructure_SOP https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Infrastructure_SOPs Perhaps they are just moving the builder *today*. Perhaps not. Maybe it's a planned outage, maybe it's not. Maybe they are aware of the outage, maybe they're not. It may be fixed in 5 minutes after a daemon restart, or it may be a day or two. Patience is what we need! -Jeff ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Where to find sources of gtk+ 2:2.14.7-1maemo15?
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Claudio Saavedra Sent: 02 January, 2010 12:52 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Where to find sources of gtk+ 2:2.14.7-1maemo15? El sáb, 02-01-2010 a las 07:22 +0100, Marcin Juszkiewicz escribió: Hi Maemo5 repository contains sources of GTK+ 2.14.17-1maemo12 but newest hildon-desktop requires maemo15 version (crashes with maemo12 in SDK). Where I can find development tree with Maemo5 gtk+? Regards, For others to know: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/gtk+/ https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/tags/gtk+/ And as a pre-warning stage as a svn server will be history as soon as we move the hardware. It was originally designed to be a temporary solution, and it turned into a semi-permanent one. GTK+ is finding a home in most likely gitorious. Tero Claudio ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Testing kernel modules for fremantle using emulation?
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Jason Edgecombe Sent: 05 January, 2010 01:48 To: Wilms Daniel (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Testing kernel modules for fremantle using emulation? daniel wilms wrote: Hi, I need to port openafs to fremantle and the Nokia N900, but I have no N900 to test on. How can I emulate the a full device with full networking so I can verify that the openafs kernel module and other parts are working correctly? Unfortunately this is not possible yet with the available tools. But if you need help with testing, please contact me directly and I will try to help you there testing the stuff. Hi Daniel, Thank you for the offer. I may take you up on it. I have one other tester, and I hoped to shorten the built+test cycle. Is there a plan to offer a fremantle VM for emulation? In the summit there was a mention of QEMU. At some point that may be an option. Can I kludge something together with my N800 to run fremantle? No, Mer is the closest relative, and that is somewhat different. What are my options? Device, maybe a beagleboard as it has the same processor (but do ask someone who knows things for an opinion on that, try #maemo on freenode irc) or wait. Tero Thanks, Jason ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Mirrors
Thank you, I hope a local mirror helps in your case. You are aware that we are using Akamai (fully distributed content delivery) for the caching? And that the hit and transfer amounts are way out of the league for anything we could set up ourselves? As for Akamail problems, would you don't mind privately e-mailing your rough location on the planet, I can try to find out why Akamai seems to be breaking a lot for you? Tero -Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Jeff Moe Sent: 04 January, 2010 22:47 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Mirrors On Monday 04 January 2010 01:42:15 Jeff Moe wrote: On Sunday 03 January 2010 15:28:04 Jeremiah Foster wrote: I think you'll find it non-trivial Nope, trivial. ;) Done. I wrote up docs on how I set up the server and details about it's configuration here: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Espejo I don't think it's critical by any means that this info be in the wiki in this case, but I put it up there more as an example of what could be done with all the servers in the infrastructure so more people can learn about how things are set up. (Cf. Debian, wikipedia, fedora, etc.). -Jeff ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
MADDE cross compiler tech preview out
Hi, The developer platform team released today a technology preview of MADDE, a cross compiler toolkit for Maemo5. MADDE runs on Windows, Linux and Mac OS X. Please try it out and give feedback. The bugzilla product Developer platform has a Madde component that can be used for bugs and feedback. However please note that as MADDE is still a technology preview, the support for it is not there yet, bugs will be handled at a low priority on the side of business as usual. More details from the talk thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38075 Happy holidays! Tero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Updating the info for Extras-devel non-free
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers- boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of Gil Quim (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Sent: 25 November, 2009 11:48 To: maemo developers Cc: marc...@maemo.org Subject: Updating the info for Extras-devel non-free Hi, the information to upload binary-only packages to extras-devel is out of date: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras-devel#.22non-free.22_packages The page states that the process applies is for Diablo. As far as I know, for Fremantle you follow the normal rules. Upload to extras-devel and promote. But Niels is the authority on that. Tero Yet there are several non-free packages in extras-devel extras- testing / Extras. Can someone please update the wiki information reflecting the current practice for Maemo 5? We are seeing more questions about this and actually the current information is misleading since it suggests that non-free packages can bypass the Extras-testing QA process, which is not true. Thank you! -- Quim Gil open source advocate Maemo Devices @ Nokia ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Flash in MicroB on N900: Hardware acceleration?
From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Qole Sent: 16 November, 2009 02:55 To: Thomas Waelti Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Flash in MicroB on N900: Hardware acceleration? My impression is that the current Adobe Flash is not hardware accelerated, but Flash 10 (available in 2010) will be. See this Adobe press release for more details: http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200811/111708ARMAdobeFlash.html I might be wrong. I hope I'm right, however, because Flash performance on the N900 isn't terribly good. You are right. Currently Flash isn't hardware accelerated, this makes flash video sites painfull too. Tero On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Thomas Waelti twae...@gmail.commailto:twae...@gmail.com wrote: Still running with 2009.41-10, I'm unsure if the flash player is hardware accelerated or not. In the context menu of Flash player, under SettingsDisplay (first tab from the left), there is one (selected) item called Enable hardware acceleration. This looks good. OTOH, I'm asking this because the perfomance of Google Streetview in my maeMaps Google Maps webapp seems relatively slow when changing views to the left and right (especially after I've seen native Streetview running on a HTC phone :-). In addition, flash games that are slightly advanced seem slow, too. I'm aware that in both contexts, I have fullscreen flash. But still - the device is quite snappy in all other tasks I'm throwing at it, just flash seems a tad too slow in comparison. Anyone with other experience / insider knowhow? Thanks -Tom ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.orgmailto:maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- enthusiast, n. One whose mind is wholly possessed and heated by what engages it; one who is influenced by a peculiar fervor of mind; an ardent and imaginative person. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: n900 recovery mode?
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Victor Fragoso Sent: 14 November, 2009 23:50 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: n900 recovery mode? Hello, I recently was testing some libraries on the n900, and in order to point the libraries I made a script that exports LD_LIBRARY_PATH pointing to the path where my libraries were. I added this line to /etc/profile source /home/user/script.sh I forgot to add the execute permission, and after rebooting the phone, the UI didn't start anymore. I think it crashes when it tries to start the script, and unfortunately the tablet can't connect to the network. I tried also to pass some flags to the kernel, I passed the init=/bin/ash and see if I could get a terminal on the screen, but I had no success. So you can't connect with ssh to undo your changes? Also I'm confused, how did you do that after you lost screen and network? Usbnet and ssh or what? Or did you do it all in one go? Do you know if there exist any flag telling the kernel to boot in a recovery mode? Not that I know of. (But I'm not a low level guy) If you hang on a while, we'll provide the images and tools to flash your device clean. I assume this is one of the 300 from Amsterdam. Tero Victor. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: n900 recovery mode?
-Original Message- Andre Klapper Sent: 16 November, 2009 12:51 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: n900 recovery mode? I don't think there is something like a recovery mode. Reflashing will help, once the final image is out (really soon(TM)): http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Andre you were so late, when your post arrived, the images had been available for like two whole minutes :-) Tero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: n900 recovery mode?
-Original Message- From: ext Victor Fragoso [mailto:vfrag...@cs.ucsb.edu] Sent: 16 November, 2009 19:59 To: Kojo Tero (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: RE: n900 recovery mode? I wasn't able to connect via ssh to the phone because my bad script was intended to be executed at booting up and set up the LD_LIBRARY_PATH variable, but I forgot to add execute permission to that script and I rebooted the phone, and I think that caused maemo not to load any service. Ah, yes. That does cripple pretty much everything. I am a graduate student at UC Santa Barbara, USA, we received some devices for research purposes. Ok, in the future feel free to bug me in case of problems. Now that you can flash the device you shouldn't have too many, but in case something comes up. And naturally this forum is an excellent place to ask for advice in case you run into something strange. By the way, I flashed my device and I have it back! =) Thank you very much Tero I'm not to thank really, it's the people over here at Maemo in general that can be thanked. Tero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo on Beagleboard
- Original message - Michael wrote: Hi, I have followed the tutorial on: http://omappedia.org/wiki/Maemo_Getting_Started to install Maemo 5 final on the Beagleboard. Everything went fine and it boot to a screen with a water background. But what can i do from this point? How to install applications? In the inet i often see a package manager for maemo on the beagleboard. But i have only a blue screen with an icon in the left-top corner. If anyone is using maemo on the beagleboard it would be good to give some advice. I wasn't able to do anything more than you describe here, too. Due to missing mouse cursor. I think Till got the best results so far, he has a touchscreen that gave some repeatable results. (tslib might be the thing to try for touchscreens) The mouse is the current biggest limitation for the rest of us. By tweaking things in xorg.conf I got the left mouse button to work (verifiable by clicking it, it brings the edit icon on the home screen). However moving the mouse didn't work :/ Then I got busy with other stuff (making the maemo.org server move happen). But network (usb) can be made to work, so installing and running things is doable from command line. However without the mouse you can't do anything. Tero Dirk ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.orgmailto:maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: QA process = bug fixing disincentive?
Andrew Flegg wrote. Jeremiah wrote: Shall we put a checkbox by the package promotion page, or somewhere where we remember, which keeps all accrued karma? That's probably a good first step, however I wonder if long term something like Marius suggested might be better: remaining karma for an app is... * proportional to current app karma * proportional to developer's karma * proportional to testers' karma * inversely proportional to the time between last build and this build. This'd mean that if I released an app and had it voted up by Ryan, Tim, Daniel, Quim and a few others on the first karma page; and I released a new version the next day (short time = probable bug fix); my app might only lose one or two points. Maybe this works for time too (or vote by high roller reduces time?) Or maybe it's just too complicated? Too complicated. I start testing an application that I pick from extras-testing (a repository that is enabled on my device). I do my tests, am happy and go press a thumbs up. Two days later I notice a blinking orange light in my status bar. I see a new version of the application. I install, I check what has changed (minor or major?), I run my tests and thumb it up again. I didn't loose too many minutes or hours of my life, no one got killed or injured, and the punitive damages to all parties appear to be zero. Life's good and I get a cup of coffee. In other words, I test applications that I use or leave on device. It's not something I do randomly. I believe that the author of the app has committed to the app, so in return I commit to it as well. The rules and process are a good thing, but in the end it is people who do the things. No matter if it is the developer, the tester or the user, it's about the people. Tero Thoughts welcome. Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: QA process = bug fixing disincentive?
Andrew Flegg wrote: On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 09:03, tero.k...@nokia.com wrote: Two days later I notice a blinking orange light in my status bar. I see a new version of the application. I install, I check what has changed (minor or major?), I run my tests and thumb it up again. Aside: how do you check what has changed? For the stuff in garage it's simple; skim the source, and for others see what the package installed, and see if everything is still there. I didn't loose too many minutes or hours of my life, no one got killed or injured, and the punitive damages to all parties appear to be zero. Life's good and I get a cup of coffee. Trouble is, developers (myself and others) are saying the current process of resetting to zero on every single promotion is incompatible with release early and release often. The theory about resetting to zero is that testers will do the full QA process again (check it still uses /opt, check a bug hasn't been introduced which introduces battery management issues, check that it both installs, uninstalls and upgrades cleanly). Yes, none of those are so hard that I wouldn't do it. (Ok, I sometimes skimp on the uninstall testing for apps that will never leave my device. I'm a bad person) In other words, I test applications that I use or leave on device. It's not something I do randomly. I believe that the author of the app has committed to the app, so in return I commit to it as well. The rules and process are a good thing, but in the end it is people who do the things. No matter if it is the developer, the tester or the user, it's about the people. Yep, however I now disagree with the logical conclusion of your statement (which has been expressed elsewhere) which is when we have lots of users it'll all work itself out. I still think that. 10 votes from an installed base of fifty, a few hundred or say ten thousand is a different thing. [and your original statement] Too complicated. Referring to the complex schemes of saving the karma points. Sounds too complicated to start counting things like time, rate times or things like that. It might be cool to implement, but does it make sense? Just do something really simple like new version get's the old votes if the app is still in testing. The tester will see the new version and change her/his mind if necessary. We seem(ed ;-)) to have a consensus between this thread, and the QA marathon feedback, between both developers and testers that resetting to zero was causing more problems than it solved. We've now moved on to ways of maintaining some app karma from one release to another, but it sounds like you disagree with that consensus? I see issues in saving the karma, but they can most likely be worked out. Either dump the votes or keep them. Just don't make it too complicated. It may be that there are two kind of testers: * Dedicated QA browsers. Will install any app from the QA queue to evaluate and score it. Will be done whenever they have time. * Dedicated application users. Will install upgrades of apps they've installed and evaluate/score them as pushed to. This most likely is the case. I do admit to random testing once in a while, but it is more to see whether there is something I could start using occasionally. Tero Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Re: Maemo5 on Beagleboard
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Till Harbaum Sent: 30 October, 2009 13:27 To: Tuomas Kulve; Till Harbaum Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Re: Maemo5 on Beagleboard Hi, Thomas Kulve wrote: I don't get the cursor with tuxpaint. Did you modify the libmatchbox2 and rebuild hildon-desktop? Nope, i didn't change anything. If you just start tuxpaint without touching the mouse at all, you should see the cursor in the screen center. Once you touch it, it nearly immedtialy jumps of to the border. The mouse really behaves weird and nearly immediately jumps into one of the screen corners/borders. Have you ever used a mouse with wrong protocol settings (e.g. ps2 with an imps2 mouse)? The current situation looks pretty much the same. Perhaps it is even something like that. I know the alpha port used a seperate xorg.conf which had to be invoked this way: -:~# Xorg -config /etc/xorg.conf-beagle I don't have a alpha setup anymore. Has one of you access to this old xorg.conf-beagle? If yes, can you please post it so we can use it as a replacement? It's in the alpha patch http://maemo-beagle.garage.maemo.org/files/maemo5-alpha/event-diff.patch Last file in the patch, easy to extrack manually, as it's a new file. Tero // waiting for the post to bring a beagle C2/3... No. I can use it to unblank the screen.. Me too :-) I can do that on a B5, but I don't have the image that should appear :-) Till ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: How about upgrading bandwidth for maemo.org?
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Andrea Grandi Sent: 29 October, 2009 11:33 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org; List for community development Subject: How about upgrading bandwidth for maemo.org? Hi all, maybe the growing interest for N900 made lot of users/developers to visit maemo.org website more than ever. For this reason maemo.org is getting so slow in these days... wiki, planet, garage ecc... all these components are affected by slowness. Yes, about 10x increase in page hits per day from the July average. It would be great to think about upgrading maemo.org bandwidth or move it to a new (faster) server. Not think, but do. The bandwidth to the outside is not the current bottleneck, but the servers themselves. The load averages are pretty insane. Is it already in your plans? Any roadmap about this? Yes, it's on the roadmap. http://wiki.maemo.org/ISP_Move is where I collected some of the things that need to happen. Schedule is such that we are waiting for the new ISP to get their machine room wired and hardware boxes set up, after which we'll start setting up the services. Setting up is no picnic, so I expect a switchover somewhere in December. I hope earlier, but let's see. Tero Best regards, -- Andrea Grandi email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com website: http://www.andreagrandi.it PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: RE: How about upgrading bandwidth for maemo.org?
-Original Message- From: maemo-community-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-community-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Randall Arnold Sent: 29 October, 2009 16:37 To: List for community development; a.gra...@gmail.com; maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: RE: How about upgrading bandwidth for maemo.org? Thanks Tero! The past two days performance has been terrible for me, especially Brainstorm (which was unresponsive last night). It is quite obvious sitting here when people wake up and when they get home from work. The worst moments seem to be Europe spending it's nights on maemo.org at the same time as the US east coast is at work peeking at the site and west coast waking and logging in :-) Tero Randy -- Ovi Mail: Free email account from Nokia http://mail.ovi.com ___ maemo-community mailing list maemo-commun...@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo5 on Beagle
- Original message - Dirk Behme wrote: Short status: [clip] 10. Re-boot, enjoy booting it with Beagle :) I followed these instructions roughly and got it running. Ok, I need to make a fresh image from scratch. I guess my stuff is messed from trying different versions during the last week. (or then my monitor is messed) Further work: - I was not able to log in at minicom console. I got login prompt, but typing resulted in some garbage characters. Typing root/rootme there seemed to make the system hang and after some time the login prompt came again. The serial console seems to work during the boot phase but it gets garbage later. It does work for me most of the time after finishing the boot up as well. Could this be related to power management..? Yes. Power management puts serial console to sleep, but it does wake up when pressing keys. You'll also notice that after console inactivity the first character will be garbage, again power management at work. - Disable screen blanking Unblanks when touching the USB mouse. - Make (USB) mouse to show and work WORKSFORME. I'm using a D-Link DUB-E100 USB ethernet dongle and at least I managed to install openssh using that. I haven't tried anything else yet (I need to get the curson showing first). This could be a usb hub thing. I have gone through two or three usb hubs to get one that works as it should. The Xorg.0.log should tell that you have a mouse and keyboard. Tero -- Tuomas ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Re: Maemo5 on Beagle
-Original Message- From: ext Till Harbaum [mailto:li...@harbaum.org] --snip-- This could be a usb hub thing. I have gone through two or three usb hubs to get one that works as it should. The Xorg.0.log should tell that you have a mouse and keyboard. Uhm, the SDK doesn't write a Xorg.0.log, does it? My image does, to /tmp/Xorg.0.log don't know if that is the norm, but I thank Carsten for the rootfs :-) Tero Till ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: extras-testing and WONTFIX ?
-Original Message- [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Zachary Goldberg Sent: 27 October, 2009 01:51 To: Gil Quim (Nokia-D/Helsinki) The problem I see now is that either you know about power management issues and how to detect them or you don't. it would be great to have really basic documentation telling testers like me to install whatever tools, follow clear steps and evaluate the output. --snip-- Hi! This is my first post (of hopefully many useful ones in the future!) to the maemo-developers list. I definitely remember some documentation on this. I can't seem to find it on the wiki so perhaps it was at the Maemo Summit. Anyway the procedure is basically: The tool manuals will move to the wiki once the Fremantle version is updated. The Diablo versions were in http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/ Most of them still apply, but some changes have happened. I don't see powertop in the Diablo version for instance. But the below is essentially what the average tester should do. Testing also promoted top as a power tool, if the app spends time on the top of top even when it is supposedly inactive it is doing something wrong. 1) Run 'powertop' in xterm (or via ssh) and observe a rough number of wakups per second 2) Run the application, then switch back to ssh/xterm 3) Run powertop again. Observe the number of wakeups per second to see if its much larger than before. I have already used this procedure succesfully to find a widget which was causing a huge number of wakeups in hildon home (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5351) -Zach Goldberg Exellent simple guide, thanks :-) Tero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Maemo5 on Beagle
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Dirk Behme Sent: 26 October, 2009 17:53 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Cc: Felipe Balbi Subject: Re: Maemo5 on Beagle Dirk Behme wrote: Till Harbaum / Lists wrote: Hi, The download page for the zoom patches for maemo-beagle directs one to http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/ which is the homepage of Carsten Munk who seems to be the wellknown stskeeps from maemo.org. I'm (dirk2) currently discussing with stskeeps @ #maemo :) http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2009-10-25.log.html Maemo5 Nokia kernel seems to be 2.6.28 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/k/kernel/ This seems to contain some (DSS2?) changes, which seem to be not available as patch anywhere. E.g. it seems that Maemo5 SGX needs function omap_dispc_set_plane_ba0(). Based on http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipe s/linux/linux-omap_2.6.28.bb?h=stable/2009 I built a kernel with http://people.freedesktop.org/~felipec/beagle/0001-DSS2-Export -omap_dispc_set_plane_ba0.patch (needs manual editing, doesn't apply cleanly to above 2.6.28 Beagle kernel, see attachment) If anybody likes to test it with Maemo5 (SGX), I can send the uImage (~2.7MB) If this doesn't work, we can try the inverse way (making Nokia kernel Beagle compatible, see below). I can take a look, I have a beagle sitting here on the desk. Carsten made a kernel yesterday based on the DSS2 patch (thanks to Felipe!). It booted, had SGX working and even ran Xorg, but didn't output anything on screen. Framebuffer or Xorg settings are wrong, I'll ask someone who knows to use their coffee break on it. But anyway a huge step forward :-) Tero Best regards Dirk Looking at Beagle 2.6.28 kernel built by open embedded [1], no OE patch for Beagle contain omap_dispc_set_plane_ba0(). Scanning omap-linux mailing list no patch has omap_dispc_set_plane_ba0(), too. So, instead of trying to make Beagle OE kernel 'Nokia compatible', maybe it's easier to make Nokia kernel from above Beagle compatible. That is, use above Nokia kernel, apply the OE patches from [1] (except DSS ones, DSS should be already in Nokia kernel), use Beagle defconfig and configure it with Nokia compatible display configuration. Best regards Dirk [1] http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/linux/ linux-omap_2.6.28.bb?h=stable/2009 ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Maemo5 on Beagle
- Original message - Dirk Behme wrote: Based on http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/linux/linux-omap_2.6.28.bb?h=stable/2009 I built a kernel with http://people.freedesktop.org/~felipec/beagle/0001-DSS2-Export-omap_dispc_set_plane_ba0.patch (needs manual editing, doesn't apply cleanly to above 2.6.28 Beagle kernel, see attachment) If anybody likes to test it with Maemo5 (SGX), I can send the uImage I took also the OE kernel and applied your patch on top of that. The rootfs tries to load pvrsvrkm, omaplfb, and pvr2d kernel modules. Where should I get these? Maybe Carsten can help? He has a kernel that goes pretty far. Tero -- Tuomas ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.orgmailto:maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Garage down for a while
Hi all, Garage is down for a disk upgrade. It ran full and needs some more space. Estimate is in the ball park of an hour or so. Hope you understand. Thanks, Tero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: extras-testing delay ?
- Original message - because extras-testing is available on device isnt it ? Sorry Gary, only extras by default on the device. Testing isn't for the average user. does a user have to enter details for extras-testing and also extras-devel? Yes, but there is a guide on http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing Tero i was under the impression -testing was included, but disabled by default? gary On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Jeremiah C. Foster jerem...@jeremiahfoster.commailto:jerem...@jeremiahfoster.com wrote: On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 23:01:20 +0100, gary liquid liq...@gmail.commailto:liq...@gmail.com wrote: hi, how long does a package take from -extras-devel to get to extras-testing It shouldn't take long, it probably depends on the size of the package. But I'll let Niels answer definitively. ive got a time sensitive package i would like to have on the system by my presentation at 12.30 tomorrow. hopefully if i can get the liqbase-playground package installed from extras-testing or extras-devel audience members can share in a little community experience during our co-creation session at the summit :) Why can't they use the repo you are using? Jeremiah Attachment ATT1..txt ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: How to use extras-testing correctly?
-Original Message- From: ext Anderson Lizardo [mailto:anderson.liza...@openbossa.org] Sent: 24 September, 2009 21:58 To: Kojo Tero (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Cc: ni...@maemo.org; ani...@gmail.com; maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: How to use extras-testing correctly? On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 1:43 PM, tero.k...@nokia.com wrote: Also I'll take the time to ask Nokia testing to look at the tooling issue. I would like to have some nice set of tools for testing the measurable aspects of applications (like battery usage as Igor pointed out). For battery life analysis, maybe Nokia Energy Profiler for Maemo might help. From this thread comment, it seems it will come with N900 too: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=324693postcount=231 Just had a talk over here about this and the Energy Profiler could come out as a closed source app (sorry, opening it looks like a no go, things that close to the battery are problematic). Some checks needed, but I'll continue bugging people about it. As for other tools, the tools repository used for the SDK contains a really nice set of tools that can be run on-device too. And the repository is allready there, so it's only a question of adding it in application manager. I'll do some wiki updating to the extras testing article to get that info up-to-date. Tero Regards, -- Anderson Lizardo OpenBossa Labs - INdT Manaus - Brazil ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: What's the best attack? (Re: How to use extras-testing correctly?)`
- Original message -
I realise this is a slightly different question (hence the new subject)
OK, say I have an evil twin who wants to attack ('own') a lot of Nokia N900
devices. How do I do this?
I hope that was retorical. Tell your evil twin to do something usefull.
Does extras-testing factor into this?
At least so that I would prefer maemo.org extras to be clean from malware. It
is much easier to promote it in Nokia internally when extras contains good
software.
Tero
David
tero.k...@nokia.commailto:tero.k...@nokia.com wrote:
- Original message -
On Thu, September 24, 2009 13:01, Aniello Del Sorbo wrote:
I am well aware of that :)
But if I go thru extras-testing (and I really want to!) then it
looks
like the Community has the last word on my application.
Yes, they do. It's a community effort, but look at it from the other
side. Not one single person or entitiy can block your app. It
takes more
people to block it.
I know.. but still.. scares me.. :)
I tried to make this as transparent as possible, by showing each vote
together with the user. If people are trolling we should be easily be
able
to spot this.
By letting the community doing this QA out in the open, we can prevent
rejections without reasoning by a certain entity like we have seen in the
news lately.
This transparency is actually the thing that makes me feel secure about
the process. The testers are independent and operate with their own names.
The (ex-)qa-manager in me is also excited by the fact that for once the
testers are really independant.
However, in a democracy not everybody can be satisfied. Let's tackle
issues when we actually get there.
Hear hear!
If the process does not work, then it get's changed. If it works we'll
just be happy and discuss how to make it more efficient.
I'm already thinking that there might be a need for a Maemo testers'
club that makes sure that even niche apps don't get stranded in testing.
Also I'll take the time to ask Nokia testing to look at the tooling
issue. I would like to have some nice set of tools for testing the
measurable aspects of applications (like battery usage as Igor pointed
out).
And in any case we need to talk about Anidello's idea on feedback, with
beer or not.
Tero
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Re: What's the best attack? (Re: How to use extras-testing correctly?)`
- Original message -
the apps in maemo extras *should* be trusted because we, the community, trust
the developers who put them there.
Gary, I trust the community, but I really want to be sure.
It is also because I like the community so much that I want to keep extras a
safe place. For some new users it will be the first point of contact to OSS. If
that contact is good, more people will find the community and more will join.
it would take 1 bad report to have the software removed from extras.
its a worrying scenario for some people, but this isnt the wild west and like
all trust based mechanisms, people in the community are given rights to upload
hopefully based on their standing.
That would be one form of security I would be ok with.
But screening people (karma or participation or whatever) for the right to
upload is even more questionable than having a team of testers go through the
apps. Everyone has to have the right to right to put their stuff to devel and
testing.
There are many steps along the way to being involved in the community and i do
not see why an individual would be nefarious enough to go through all those
just
to infect a few machines.
people are given rights and responsibilities and mechanisms are in place to
hopefully prevent an incident such as you are describing.
Pretty much so. But I don't want to risk even a single case however unlikely it
is.
it falls on each and every one of us to maintain that trust.
It is about trust, but there is the question of security too.
I hope the solution that is now implemented is one that works, but as always,
if practise shows that it needs to be rethought, then we will.
Tero
Tero
gary
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 3:40 PM, David Greaves
da...@dgreaves.commailto:da...@dgreaves.com wrote:
tero.k...@nokia.commailto:tero.k...@nokia.com wrote:
- Original message -
I realise this is a slightly different question (hence the new subject)
OK, say I have an evil twin who wants to attack ('own') a lot of Nokia
N900
devices. How do I do this?
I hope that was retorical. Tell your evil twin to do something usefull.
Err, no it wasn't retorical; it was hypothetical though in case you were
worried.
It's more about being responsible :)
Actually it is very late in the day to be asking... but hey, it sounds like a
topic worth raising.
Does extras-testing factor into this?
At least so that I would prefer maemo.org extras to be clean from
malware. It is much easier to promote it in Nokia internally when extras
contains good software.
I agree 100% ... all it takes is one example of malware introduced into an OSS
product and we (and Nokia) could lose a lot of credibility.
I wonder how much that could be worth to some people? Maybe worth a deliberate
attack? Maybe someone is playing a longer game?
I just hope we are not planning on taking the cross your fingers and toes
*REALLY HARD* and hope everyone is nice to us approach to security ;)
Discuss...
David
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RE: How to use extras-testing correctly?
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Aniello Del Sorbo Sent: 24 September, 2009 12:20 To: Gil Quim (Nokia-D/Helsinki) Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: How to use extras-testing correctly? I personally think we're taking a wrong approach to the problem. I am not developing for Apple because of their approval process and their desire of control. That is a different matter alltogether. One device, one shop, complete control. That has very little to do with a community site like maemo.org and a deevice using debian repositories. I don't want my application to go through an approval process to reach my users. No one is forcing you to place your app in extras. However it is the place most likely to be found by new users. Maemo Extras should be of high quality because we will have completely new users to the platform. We don't want to scare them away, simple as that. I think that the developer HAS the last work on whether or not her application is ready to be promoted to Extras. The developer has the last word; just don't promote from testing. But I like the idea of my application being tested and I'd love to get feedback from the final users. Android has a nice approach, I think the application goes straight to Market and when a user removes it, she's being asked why. I don't think so, please provide a reference. I learned that the extremes are almost never the best choice. Thus, I would like to see is a mix of Apple idea of testers and Google Android uninstallation survey. Here's my proposal: We leave Extras-Testing as it is, with votes, comments, bug reports an so on (or improve it, as you wish). But then it's only the developer that decides, based on that feedback, if or not to promote the application to Extras. Which is how it works, except you need ten thumbs up. When the application gets promoted to Extras, people will start using it. Yes, extras-testing for testing, -devel for development, extras for prime time. If there's a major bug, the user will uninstall the application. Certainly. The Application Manager should ask the user, as Android Market does, WHY she uninstalling the application. Of course she may choose not to give any feedback. One of the choice she has is Uninstalling because of a bug and she can fill in the bug if she wish so. This bug goes straight to bugzilla for that application and we should count them and decide on two limits: a soft threshold and a hard one. Soft threshold: if the application goes below this soft limit a yellow flag is raised (how to handle it, it's another topic). Hard threshold: if the application goes below this hard limit a red flag is raised and application pulled from Extras. Look, if you want to remove stuff, it's better to do it early than late. The assumption is that someone will submit bad code, then the better option is to take it out before it hits peoples devices. Not after it's gotten to the public. This way the Developer has full control of when and how she wants her application to reach the public. The Community has some control of which applications should be removed. Which is there already. When you get the ten votes on testing, you get notified and can choose to ignore it or promote when you feel like it. A good application with a good developer stays there. A good application with a slow developer might get a yellow flag and developer may feel pushed more to fix bugs A good application with a bad developer might become buggy over time, outdated and gets pulled out A bad application with a good developer has a better chance to become a good one A bad application with a slow developer has its life on the edge of a razor.. be ware A bad application with a bad developer is dead and not in Extras. Aniello 2009/9/24 Quim Gil quim@nokia.com: ext Fred Lefévère-Laoide wrote: I know you can't force people to vote or test ... But it means that if an app has a very limited public it doesn't get out of extras-testing ? This is a very good point. I believe it won't be an issue once there are more people with devices able to vote, but still. Something that would help is to have a strict chronological sorting at http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing_free_ armel/ so oldest submissions are always on top. And encourage people to help kicking the apps on the top even if they don't use it normally. At the end it's not that hard to give an app a shot and look whether the basic QA factors are in place. I believe after the N900 sales start there will be also a sustainability approach for the applications not used by many. Some will be highly specialized with a small but committed audience that will help testing and ranking. If a bug goes through
RE: How to use extras-testing correctly?
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Henrik Hedberg Sent: 24 September, 2009 13:07 Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: How to use extras-testing correctly? Niels Breet wrote: The developer/maintainer is always the one who decides on when to publish the app. So no quarantine, no need to gather karma points? Please, update the wiki [1], if that will be the case. No, the question was who makes the promotion to extras. The developer does in the end. Aniello was saying that developer should have an option to promote his application directly into extras regardless of the extras-testing QA. I second to that. I find that understandable and scary. You guys want the control on your software, naturally. But giving a potentially bad experience to a first time oss user? No. The people who will get N900s aren't all reading this list, and some of them are even a bit clueless. I know that the people who are raising this issue provide a class software, I use it. But not everything in for instance Diablo extras is good and functional. Even worse, direct promotion leaves a gaping hole to upload stuff that crashes devices. Which is then pulled out later? I know that the people looking after the maemo.org repositories are fast, but even they go on vacations occasionally. In addition, Aniello had nice ideas about the processes and tools how to find applications (and developers) who had probably misused their power to promote application directly into extras. There is no hurry to implement those, although they could make sense in the long run. As a feedback channel yes. It's a good idea, but needs an implementation, which we could talk about in Amsterdam (a lot of the early contributors will be there, I don't mean to discriminate) live and on a thread here. Tero BR, Henrik [1] http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing#Promotion_.2F_Demotion -- Henrik Hedberg - http://www.henrikhedberg.net/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: How to use extras-testing correctly?
From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Till Harbaum Sent: 16 September, 2009 15:16 To: maemo-dev Subject: How to use extras-testing correctly? Hi, i have been asked to upload osm2go to extras-testing. It's not quite clear to me how this is actually supposed to work. I see several possibilities: 1) Just upload something. Others will do some testing and i can upload a fixed version of they see problems. The new version will then go though the same testing again. This is how i think it was initially meant to work. 2) Upload only things that have gone through my own testing to increase the likeliness that it will go straight through testing without any problems. This is the way i will use it. I see several problems with 1): - If something broken doesn't pass the tests and i keep uploading new versions people will likely get tired of me and my perhaps perfect version will stay in testing forever because nobody wants to test my app over and over again I rather see it as a chance to try out the latest versions. And as a tester a way to do my bit for the community. I'm not an excellent developer, but I can test applications. And you are right, broken stuff shouldn't pass into the hands of the average high end consumer (because yes, the N900 will not only be in the hands of oss hackers, but a lot of other people). That's why there's the testing phase. People most likely get tired if the application is of no use and broken. A repeated upload of a broken Hello world, might get disregarded soon. But something that people consider usefull and that has been downloaded over 10 000 times... A few broken versions in the middle will hardly matter. Actually it would be worse to push those broken versions directly to extras, that would hurt all those people, not just the testers. The social dynamics of the system will make sure that things get tested. If an app gets a vote (up or down), others are likely to out of curiosity see what the tester said, and maybe even try it out themselves. - If something broken actually passes the testing things get even worse as a bug fix has to go through testing again and the broken version will stay there until the bug fix passes testing Some bugs will go through naturally. Perfect software doesn't exits. Don't even think so. The thing is that testing weeds out bugs that would be considered blockers or major issues. I can live with a lot of minor issues, and I won't even notice them most of the time. When I do, I'll report them as bugs. To me this means two things: 1) don't update too often, so people/testers don't get bored Keeping changes to yourself increases the likelyhood that there are issues that you don't find. The author of the software is never the best tester. The best tester is completely independent, something which strangely enough we can achieve in the community. Release often and release early. It does not say release broken. Early so that the tester knows what is coming in. The worst testing experience will be the first time; new software, massive feature list and no base on which to work. Often so that the tester can check the changed part fast and that the delta doesn't grow too much from the previous version. 2) put some extensive internal testing before promoting something to extras-testing Sure, but which one do you like more, developing or testing? If you are one of the few people (I know two) who utterly love both, then test until you think the test is exhaustive. Then give out and let others test too. However my guess (and experience) is that people who write oss software love developing more than testing. Extras-testing provides testing as a service to the developer. This also means that i will delay the promotion of osm2go as i am currently running my own tests. Well, right now is a special time. There is practically no hardware available (some developer units in the hands of Nokia personnel and a few selected people). Right now it is hard to get ten votes at all. That just happened 30 minutes ago for the first time (rootsh 1.5 is considered good for extras, a fitting package to go first). And there is no stopping people from keeping their stuff in extras-devel for as long as they want. Once there is hardware available, I think that the limit is the quaranteen time that the app has to stay in extras-testing. Knowing the community, my guess is that there will be enough testers for the apps. (some people code well, others like to test) I somehow think this is not the way it should work ... Any ideas how to use it in a more efficient way? The idea is to make sure that the end user gets good software. Tero Till ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: How to use extras-testing correctly?
- Original message - tero.k...@nokia.commailto:tero.k...@nokia.com wrote: Once there is hardware available, I think that the limit is the quaranteen time that the app has to stay in extras-testing. Knowing the community, my guess is that there will be enough testers for the apps. (some people code well, others like to test) Is it possible to predict or set the actual moment when a package goes into extras? For example, if I liked to make a grand announcement of my new software, how could I time my announcement when the control of the release date and time is not in my own hands? I understood the process to be such that the package owner get's notified of the pass, but can/has to press the promotion button to extras. That would enable the grand entrance with fanfare and timing. Niels can correct me if I'm lost on this one. Tero BR, Henrik -- Henrik Hedberg - +358 (0)40 574 5087 - http://www.henrikhedberg.net/ Innologies - Innovative Technologies - http://www.innologies.fi/ Oulu, Finland - FI19934487, VAT reg. - http://www.innologies.com/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.orgmailto:maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: libaudiofile
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Graham Cobb Sent: 13 September, 2009 01:29 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: libaudiofile libaudiofile-dev and libaudiofile0 are both present in the Fremantle SDK but apparently libaudiofile0 is not present on the device. This makes gpe-calendar buildable in extras-devel but uninstallable on the N900. Yes, libaudiofile is legacy and should not be in the final SDK or device. I am looking into getting a bug reported against the device but, in the meantime, can the libaudiofile0 from the SDK be copied into extras-devel so that testers can install gpe-calendar (without having to enable the SDk repositories)? It is actually a bug in the beta 2 SDK that the library is there. As you need libaudiofile, then you need to build and provide it with gpe-calendar. Or figure out a workaround. Will that also mean that when I push gpe-calendar into extras-testing (and, eventually, Extras itself), libaudiofile0 will go with it? Yes, as it is a dependency, it's needed in extras-devel. Sorry for the inconvenience, Tero Graham ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: libaudiofile
OK, Tero. Thanks for the info. I have now uploaded audiofile to extras-devel (with me as maintainer). Thanks Graham, I appreciate that. And really sorry for the inconvenience. There are a few libraries that slipped into beta 2. Tero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Code cookbook for Maemo?
-Original Message- From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Henrik Hedberg Sent: 01 September, 2009 14:42 To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: Code cookbook for Maemo? tero.k...@nokia.com wrote: A few guys from our product management got an idea of a 'code cookbook'. A sort of wiki-like place where you could copy-paste snippets of code, tag and comment on them. Then by searching on the tags or text you could find pieces of code that do a specific thing. The idea would be to make life simpler for developers, by providing them with a cookbook from where to find usefull algorithms for things that most people run into or need to be coded in some particular way. Excellent idea! Could you, however, explain how is this different from the existing Code Snippets page in Garage: https://garage.maemo.org/snippet/ ;) Didn't know we had that :) (Looks like I'm not the only one.) That could be a good starting point. Thanks! Tero BR, Henrik -- Henrik Hedberg - http://www.henrikhedberg.net/ ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Code cookbook for Maemo?
Hi, A few guys from our product management got an idea of a 'code cookbook'. A sort of wiki-like place where you could copy-paste snippets of code, tag and comment on them. Then by searching on the tags or text you could find pieces of code that do a specific thing. The idea would be to make life simpler for developers, by providing them with a cookbook from where to find usefull algorithms for things that most people run into or need to be coded in some particular way. Based on quick googling it's not an original idea (code-cookbook.com). Would it make sense to have something like that in maemo.org? Naturally with an open contribution system. Tero ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
