Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
Stoppa Igor (Nokia-D/Helsinki) igor.sto...@nokia.com writes: No at all: it's about standardization. The device must support a certain set of features and provide well defined APIs. So if a device is MeeGo compliant, it will be advertised as such. In my view, MeeGo is a development effort, not a standardization effort. Standards might follow, in the form of new or updated LSB modules, but MeeGo itself is foremost a concrete collection of software, not a API standard, just like its forebearers Moblin and Maemo. Thus, MeeGo lives next to Fedora and Ubuntu, and remixes much of the same software in a slightly different way. It is not in the same category as POSIX, LSB, and FHS. Now, standards are important, too, but secondary. If someone with enough clue sits down and writes down a Mobile LSB module that actually gathers traction outside of MeeGo, then that would be a good thing. But that is not what MeeGo is primarily about. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
On Mar 22, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Marius Vollmer wrote: Stoppa Igor (Nokia-D/Helsinki) igor.sto...@nokia.com writes: No at all: it's about standardization. The device must support a certain set of features and provide well defined APIs. So if a device is MeeGo compliant, it will be advertised as such. In my view, MeeGo is a development effort, not a standardization effort. I am not convinced that this is true. It looks like MeeGo is going to track upstream closely with few customizations. It is going be be more of an integration that a distribution. In that regards, it leans closer to a standard linux instance than it does a separate distro. Thus, MeeGo lives next to Fedora and Ubuntu, and remixes much of the same software in a slightly different way. It is not in the same category as POSIX, LSB, and FHS. The value it will have though is as a building block - not as a finished distro like Fedora or Ubuntu. Now, standards are important, too, but secondary. If someone with enough clue sits down and writes down a Mobile LSB module that actually gathers traction outside of MeeGo, then that would be a good thing. But that is not what MeeGo is primarily about. It seems to me it is more about creating a functioning reference platform which others can take and build upon. As such it seems closer to a standard. Jeremiah ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
ext Jeremiah Foster jerem...@jeremiahfoster.com writes: On Mar 22, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Marius Vollmer wrote: In my view, MeeGo is a development effort, not a standardization effort. I am not convinced that this is true. It looks like MeeGo is going to track upstream closely with few customizations. It is going be be more of an integration that a distribution. In that regards, it leans closer to a standard linux instance than it does a separate distro. Hmm, still, MeeGo is surely going to be a collection of software that is maintained, released, and distributed. There will be documents about it, but the primary product of the joint Intel/Nokia effort is surely going to be mostly software, and not PDFs or--deity beware--PowerPoints and a certification process. Or did I really understand things wrong? Thus, MeeGo lives next to Fedora and Ubuntu, and remixes much of the same software in a slightly different way. It is not in the same category as POSIX, LSB, and FHS. The value it will have though is as a building block - not as a finished distro like Fedora or Ubuntu. I think it is important that MeeGo is a viable OS on its own, to attract more people. The content draft says that it will: it goes all the way up to a graphical desktop environment, including a few applications, and maybe even a browser. If I become interested in MeeGo, and the first thing I have to do is to decide which of the many vendor versions to actually use to get something useful, I might already be put off. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
On Mar 22, 2010, at 1:53 PM, Marius Vollmer wrote: ext Jeremiah Foster jerem...@jeremiahfoster.com writes: On Mar 22, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Marius Vollmer wrote: In my view, MeeGo is a development effort, not a standardization effort. I am not convinced that this is true. It looks like MeeGo is going to track upstream closely with few customizations. It is going be be more of an integration that a distribution. In that regards, it leans closer to a standard linux instance than it does a separate distro. Hmm, still, MeeGo is surely going to be a collection of software that is maintained, released, and distributed. There will be documents about it, but the primary product of the joint Intel/Nokia effort is surely going to be mostly software, and not PDFs or--deity beware--PowerPoints and a certification process. Or did I really understand things wrong? :-) No - surely you are right. But I think it is going to proceed from the notion that it is not quite a full distro. Thus, MeeGo lives next to Fedora and Ubuntu, and remixes much of the same software in a slightly different way. It is not in the same category as POSIX, LSB, and FHS. The value it will have though is as a building block - not as a finished distro like Fedora or Ubuntu. I think it is important that MeeGo is a viable OS on its own, to attract more people. Definitely. But the feeling I get is that they want to minimize the (perhaps inevitable) distro politics. Free Software without the Free Software process. ;) The content draft says that it will: it goes all the way up to a graphical desktop environment, including a few applications, and maybe even a browser. Yeah, and this is where I am getting confused. Because it looks like an almost complete distro, but some of the Moblin devs seem to imply, or even say outright, that they don't want to be a full distro but rather a sort of super middleware. I don't really see powerusers caring that much about middleware. If I become interested in MeeGo, and the first thing I have to do is to decide which of the many vendor versions to actually use to get something useful, I might already be put off. I think your specific needs will determine which vendor or middleware version. If you're going to build a set-top box, take the TV MeeGo version, if you're doing IVI use MeeGo IVI, if you're doing embedded on ARM, take MeeGo ARM Vanilla. I assume that is the vision anyway. Jeremiah ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
Dnia czwartek, 18 marca 2010 o 19:59:25 Samir Faci (Dev) napisał(a): Hmm.. any one know if meego will be completely open source?. Or is it too early to know for sure at this point. It was already said that Nokia devices running MeeGo will contain closed source components. So answer to your question is no, it won't be. Regards, -- JID: h...@jabber.org Website: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcinjuszkiewicz ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
ext Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: Dnia czwartek, 18 marca 2010 o 19:59:25 Samir Faci (Dev) napisał(a): Hmm.. any one know if meego will be completely open source?. Or is it too early to know for sure at this point. It was already said that Nokia devices running MeeGo will contain closed source components. So answer to your question is no, it won't be. Incorrect. A Nokia device running MeeGo is not the same as a Nokia device running _exclusively_ MeeGo. iow the total sw stack will be a superset of a configuration of MeeGo So MeeGo can still be fully open. igor ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
On Mar 19, 2010, at 7:42 AM, Igor Stoppa wrote: ext Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: Dnia czwartek, 18 marca 2010 o 19:59:25 Samir Faci (Dev) napisał(a): Hmm.. any one know if meego will be completely open source?. Or is it too early to know for sure at this point. It was already said that Nokia devices running MeeGo will contain closed source components. So answer to your question is no, it won't be. Incorrect. Well, except for the part where Nokia ends up marketing it as MeeGo. Oh, and Harmattan's, apparently, MeeGo, too, and it definitely has closed stuff at the platform level. Yeah . . . not confusing at all. ;) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
ext Ryan Abel wrote: Well, except for the part where Nokia ends up marketing it as MeeGo. Oh, and Harmattan's, apparently, MeeGo, too, and it definitely has closed stuff at the platform level. Yeah . . . not confusing at all. ;) No at all: it's about standardization. The device must support a certain set of features and provide well defined APIs. So if a device is MeeGo compliant, it will be advertised as such. What's confusing about it? If you write an application which relies on MeeGo features only and can be run across multiple MeeGo compliant devices, what matters to you that in one of them there might be a closed component which doesn't belong to the MeeGo stack? igor ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
Dnia piątek, 19 marca 2010 o 12:42:17 Igor Stoppa napisał(a): ext Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: Dnia czwartek, 18 marca 2010 o 19:59:25 Samir Faci (Dev) napisał(a): Hmm.. any one know if meego will be completely open source?. Or is it too early to know for sure at this point. It was already said that Nokia devices running MeeGo will contain closed source components. So answer to your question is no, it won't be. Incorrect. A Nokia device running MeeGo is not the same as a Nokia device running exclusively MeeGo. iow the total sw stack will be a superset of a configuration of MeeGo So MeeGo can still be fully open. Ok, let me rephrase: It was already said that Nokia devices running Nokia provided MeeGo based system will contain closed source components. So far no one told what base meego system contains and how useful it is. Judging from current situation I assume that it will be nearly not usable without having N900 connected to charger due to lack of open BME alternative == no charging. There are build systems already which provides alternative root filesystems for nokia N900 and all of them suffer more or less due to that. Regards, -- JID: h...@jabber.org Website: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcinjuszkiewicz ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
ext Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: It was already said that Nokia devices running Nokia provided MeeGo based system will contain closed source components. So far no one told what base meego system contains and how useful it is. It depends on your intent and goals. I cannot comment on what MeeGo will contain simply because: - I am not involved in defining the content - I have no official communication role (yes, i'm using my job email address but I will not make statements) Judging from current situation I assume that it will be nearly not usable without having N900 connected to charger due to lack of open BME alternative == no charging. Well, if for you it is good enough to have binary packages added, it probably would be possible. Ask Quim. Even now the userspace driver for the 3D accelerator is closed source (even in Nokia it takes a business reason to see the code: I was the proj manager for it and still i didn't have access to the repo). Would a mesa implementation be good enough for you? Probably not: it would be better to have text console only than an extremely cpu-intensive and slow sw-renderer. There are build systems already which provides alternative root filesystems for nokia N900 and all of them suffer more or less due to that. Again, your problem might be solved by MeeGo or not, based on the content. However battery charging is very platform specific, while MeeGo deals mostly with parts that aren't. Worksplit between HW and SW in future products (not only Nokia) will also play a major role. igor ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
On Mar 19, 2010, at 8:52 AM, Igor Stoppa wrote: ext Ryan Abel wrote: Well, except for the part where Nokia ends up marketing it as MeeGo. Oh, and Harmattan's, apparently, MeeGo, too, and it definitely has closed stuff at the platform level. Yeah . . . not confusing at all. ;) No at all: it's about standardization. The device must support a certain set of features and provide well defined APIs. So if a device is MeeGo compliant, it will be advertised as such. What's confusing about it? Will it be advertised as such? Wording I've seen so far leads me to believe it'll be advertised as MeeGo not MeeGo-compliant. I guess we'll have to wait and see. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Building Maemo OS from Source.
From: ext Ryan Abel [rabe...@gmail.com] Sent: 19 March 2010 23:43 Will it be advertised as such? Wording I've seen so far leads me to believe it'll be advertised as MeeGo not MeeGo-compliant. I guess we'll have to wait and see. The N900 box you might have states that it is certified for USB, but for example doesn't mention anywhere that even pc-suite has been tested as part of the USB certification because of hte way it needs to be performed. Even if pc-suite is certainly not part of he USB standard. Here we are entering into a land for marketing and lawyers, where the message needs to be summarized and still retain its meaning. Anyway why wouldn't MeeGo be correct if it is contained in the device? I could understand the argument if some MeeGo component was to be replaced, but if it is extanded or if some gap (platform specific) is filled by a non-MeeGo component, I see no real problem or miscommunication. igor ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
On Mar 19, 2010, at 5:50 PM, igor.sto...@nokia.com igor.sto...@nokia.com wrote: From: ext Ryan Abel [rabe...@gmail.com] Sent: 19 March 2010 23:43 Will it be advertised as such? Wording I've seen so far leads me to believe it'll be advertised as MeeGo not MeeGo-compliant. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Anyway why wouldn't MeeGo be correct if it is contained in the device? I could understand the argument if some MeeGo component was to be replaced, but if it is extanded or if some gap (platform specific) is filled by a non-MeeGo component, I see no real problem or miscommunication. Well, in Harmattans case, because it aint MeeGo at all. For anything else, well, I don't know. Until we know exactly how much of the platform is actually MeeGo it's impossible to say. But judging by the amount of differentiation I know Nokia likes to keep, it's going to be incredibly confusing to both users and developers. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: Building Maemo OS from Source.
From: ext Ryan Abel [rabe...@gmail.com] Sent: 20 March 2010 00:06 Well, in Harmattans case, because it aint MeeGo at all. For anything else, well, I don't know. Until we know exactly how much of the platform is actually MeeGo it's impossible to say. But judging by the amount of differentiation I know Nokia likes to keep, it's going to be incredibly confusing to both users and developers. This is stuff for marketing (Peter and Quim) to answer. I don't think i'm qualified to transmit any message in a proper way, while it's their job to make sure the confusion is dispelled :-D igor ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
On Mar 19, 2010, at 6:15 PM, igor.sto...@nokia.com wrote: From: ext Ryan Abel [rabe...@gmail.com] Sent: 20 March 2010 00:06 Well, in Harmattans case, because it aint MeeGo at all. For anything else, well, I don't know. Until we know exactly how much of the platform is actually MeeGo it's impossible to say. But judging by the amount of differentiation I know Nokia likes to keep, it's going to be incredibly confusing to both users and developers. This is stuff for marketing (Peter and Quim) to answer. I don't think i'm qualified to transmit any message in a proper way, while it's their job to make sure the confusion is dispelled :-D Yeah, and I wish them the best of luck in it. ;) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Building Maemo OS from Source.
I was wondering if anyone has gone through the process of building the entire maemo operating system from source and if this has been documented anywhere? Basically, I'm looking for something that allows me to build the entire thing, make minor modifications... and be able to re-flash it to my phone. N900 or similar architecture. -- Samir Faci *insert title* fortune | cowsay -f /usr/share/cows/tux.cow ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
Hmm.. any one know if meego will be completely open source?. Or is it too early to know for sure at this point. -- Samir Faci On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Joseph Charpak josephchar...@comcast.net wrote: On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 12:37 -0500, Samir Faci (Dev) wrote: I was wondering if anyone has gone through the process of building the entire maemo operating system from source and if this has been documented anywhere? Basically, I'm looking for something that allows me to build the entire thing, make minor modifications... and be able to re-flash it to my phone. N900 or similar architecture. Not possible as maemo is not 100% open source and parts of the SDK are distributed only as binaries. Also the system doesn't tend to respond well to certain packages being updated outside of Nokia firmware updates. Other parts of the system are open however and it may be possible to update them without causing problems due to future firmware updates. Learn more about programming for N900 at http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide and specific instructions on how to install the SDK in particular at http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation Joseph Charpak josephchar...@comcast.net ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- -- Samir Faci *insert title* fortune | cowsay -f /usr/share/cows/tux.cow ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Building Maemo OS from Source.
On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 13:32 -0500, Samir Faci wrote: Hmm.. any one know if meego will be completely open source?. There's the usual frustration with a lot of press release marketing-speak going around but the short version is that there will be at least a base version of Meego which will be completely open source as well as customizations designed by handheld makers or cellphone providers. Once we just get going the objective is to have all of the MeeGo platform work fully in public... ...MeeGo will be a complete yet not entirely productised Linux distribution, it is fully Open Source in code and in process... ...Still, there are some bumps to be expected: MeeGo is supposed to go beyond its parents in openness. Also...other companies will get involved as open source makes its inroads to device business mainstream. Yet MeeGo operations are expected and designed to be completely transparent - RD in the public internet! This is still a baffling proposition to many. Some do not want to do it, some do not dare, many do not know how to. We still have a trainload of openness virgins here! Herding the teams to go public will be a big task for [Meego] Source: the meego.com blog http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/towards-day-one Intel and Orange will work to increase the availability of Orange Signature Services, such as Orange TV and Orange Maps, which will be supported by the MeeGo environment... ...'With the increasing number of phones and operating systems for customers to choose from, it is our role to make sure our customer's journey into this richer mobile multimedia environment is simple and easy,' said Yves Maitre, SVP Devices, Orange Group. 'Our collaboration with Intel on the MeeGo software platform will...[ensure] that customers continue to benefit from a consistent user experience delivered through Orange Signature services, including a customized home-screen' source http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/intel-orange-collaborate-on-meego-platform-to-deliver-a-new-mobile-multimedia-experience-on-intelr-atomtm-processor-based-devices-86140547.html Dear G-D that url is ugly. Use this instead: http://tinyurl.com/yfsozlw Whether the base version of Meego will be useful enough to an end user will be the big question. What does a complete yet not entirely productised Linux distribution mean? Joseph Charpak josephchar...@comcast.net ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
