[Mailman-Users] Re: Digest not being received in a timely fashion

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/8/2024 8:58 PM, j...@janalexander.ca wrote:

1. Where do I see the raw text of the received digest?


It depends on how you're reading the email. In Thunderbird, control-U 
will open a new windows with the raw message. Roundcube Webmail has a 
"show source" button, other clients should have something similar.



2. What is MTA?


Mail Transfer Agent - the software that moves email between servers.

z!


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[Mailman-Users] Re: Digest not being received in a timely fashion

[jan]

1. Where do I see the raw text of the received digest?
2. What is MTA?

I get what you're saying about received by Mailman, but the delay is later in 
the delivery chain.

If not that, then Mailman outgoing queue is backlogged (which is what EMWD is 
saying), due to a larger volume list on the shared server taking up all the 
space.

I will send along the wiki article to them.
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Apple and Microsoft emails bounced

[Mark Sapiro]

On 3/8/24 12:10 PM, j...@janalexander.ca wrote:

Below is the bounce notice received. It looks like "Excessive or fatal bounces" is the 
culprit. Our threshold is set to 5.0. Once the bounce threshold score is reached it checks 
"nomail" next to the account and disables it. You know all this of course.

However, it's not exactly logical that all the icloud and mac email accounts 
have excessive bounces at once. Or, the hotmail and live accounts for that 
matter.



Sure it is. They are all rejecting the same mail so the user's bounce 
scores all increment on the same messages and reach threshhold on the 
same message.





host mx02.mail.icloud.com [17.57.152.5]
SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
554 5.7.1 [HM08] Message rejected due to local policy. Please visit 
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204137



This is not a very informative message, but it does say that your mail 
and mail server should conform to best practices. The important things 
are full circle DNS for the sending server (which is the case for the 
mailist.dunbar-vancouver.org domain) and DKIM signing outgoing mail. I 
can't see from what you posted if the mail has a valid DKIM signature. 
Where there additional headers beyond the From:, Subject:,Date:, To: and 
Reply-To: that you posted?

Most of the `best practices` are things controlled by the host.

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Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Digest not being received in a timely fashion

[Mark Sapiro]

On 3/8/24 12:20 PM, j...@janalexander.ca wrote:

For years our digest has arrived at 9:00 am (PST).

In the last six months it has been erratic, arriving at different times during 
the day.

Now, recently it is not arriving for a day, sometimes days. It's pretty useless 
to our members to have messages from one or two days ago arrive late.



Examine the full raw text of the received digest. Look at the chain of 
Received: headers (they are in chronological order with most recent at 
the top) to determine where the delay(s) occur. I suspect the message 
will have been received from Mailman by the outgoing MTA. in a timely 
manner and the delay is later in the delivery chain, but if not, 
Mailman's outgoing queue is hopelessly backlogged. If this is the case, 
it should affect not only digests but also individual messages. See 
https://wiki.list.org/x/17892002 for tips on what the hosting service 
can do about this.


On the other hand, if the delays are later in the delivery chain, 
there's nothing Mailman can do about it.



I've asked the Mailman hosting company about this repeatedly. Their answer is 
that bigger volume mailist senders on shared servers take time in the queue, 
and our little mailist has to wait until their messages are processed. They've 
asked them to move to a dedicated server, but the delays are still occurring.

I've asked them about setting up a Cron job to schedule the release of our 
emails, but haven't received a definitive answer.



If the messages are in Mailman's out queue, that's a situation that can 
be addressed by the host (tips in the wiki article above). If the 
messages have been delivered by Mailman to the outgoing MTA and are 
queued there it's likely because of greylisting or some other issue 
between the outgoing MTA and the next hop. These can be diagnosed via 
the MTA's logs. Otherwise the delays may be further downstream. It's a 
true shame that EMWD is not able to provide the support that they did 
when Brian was still alive.


--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Digest not being received in a timely fashion

[jan]

For years our digest has arrived at 9:00 am (PST).

In the last six months it has been erratic, arriving at different times during 
the day.

Now, recently it is not arriving for a day, sometimes days. It's pretty useless 
to our members to have messages from one or two days ago arrive late.

I've asked the Mailman hosting company about this repeatedly. Their answer is 
that bigger volume mailist senders on shared servers take time in the queue, 
and our little mailist has to wait until their messages are processed. They've 
asked them to move to a dedicated server, but the delays are still occurring.

I've asked them about setting up a Cron job to schedule the release of our 
emails, but haven't received a definitive answer.

Anyone have any suggestions?
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Apple and Microsoft emails bounced

[jan]

Below is the bounce notice received. It looks like "Excessive or fatal bounces" 
is the culprit. Our threshold is set to 5.0. Once the bounce threshold score is 
reached it checks "nomail" next to the account and disables it. You know all 
this of course.

However, it's not exactly logical that all the icloud and mac email accounts 
have excessive bounces at once. Or, the hotmail and live accounts for that 
matter.

I went back through the EMWD tickets.

1. (2019)15 hotmail accounts blocked -- Brian updated the SPF and we put it in 
our DNS records.
2. Hotmail accounts blocked --  (after Brian) updated DKIM, suggested if that 
didn't work to get our members to "whitelist" our emails
3. Hotmail accounts blocked -- EMWD says Microsoft rejecting dedicated mail 
from our IP, opened escalation request; Microsoft "conditionally mitigates."
4. 4 months later -- same thing
5. 4 months later -- same thing
6. Uniserve emails blocked --  EMWD said: "Looking at the logs, I see that the 
list is accepting messages from Hotmail/Outlook addresses. However, Microsoft 
is bouncing messages from the list sent to those addresses - so although other 
list members are receiving it, they wouldn't see their own messages coming 
through the list."
7. (2024) icloud and mac emails blocked -- prior to this we went to a new host, 
EMWD updated DKIM and we had the new host company put it in the DNS records.

This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
 
 
List: Neighbours
Member: tasha...@me.com 
Action: Subscription disabled.
Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces.
 
 
The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
 
 
Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
mail...@mailist.dunbar-vancouver.org 
.
 
 

From: Mail Delivery System 
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
Date: March 6, 2024 at 11:58:26 AM PST
To: neighbours-boun...@mailist.dunbar-vancouver.org


This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

 tasha...@me.com
   host mx02.mail.icloud.com [17.57.152.5]
   SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
   554 5.7.1 [HM08] Message rejected due to local policy. Please visit 
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204137
Reporting-MTA: dns; mm3.emwd.com

Action: failed
Final-Recipient: rfc822;tasha...@me.com
Status: 5.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mx02.mail.icloud.com
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554 5.7.1 [HM08] Message rejected due to local policy. 
Please visit https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204137

From: neighbours-requ...@mailist.dunbar-vancouver.org
Subject: Neighbours Digest, Vol 232, Issue 6
Date: March 6, 2024 at 9:00:02 AM PST
To: neighbo...@mailist.dunbar-vancouver.org
Reply-To: neighbo...@mailist.dunbar-vancouver.org
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