[Mailman-Users] Re: New mailman instance

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 5/4/2024 1:45 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 7:54 PM Carl Zwanzig  wrote:

Last I checked, MM3 was just not suitable for a small set of smaller
lists and to be maintained by less experienced people.


In what aspects was it not suitable? I have never encountered a document
stating that.


Of course not, that's my opinion- every time I look at what it takes to 
install MM3, it seems like a lot of work for the results. If I need to 
run a few lists of tens of people, I don't want to spend multi-hours 
doing the setup. Kind of like using a 10 tonne lorry to move a table and 
chairs; it just doesn't make sense.




Perhaps that's changed, has it?

I am not able to answer that before I get the answer to my question above.


There you have it. MM2 has been quick and easy to install and configure 
and light on the resources, MM3 appears to need a lot more. (How long 
does it take to install and configure a complete and usable MM3 
installation? What are the resources needed? At one time, I ran MM2 on a 
90Mhz Pentium and it did the job; there's a 2006 list post about it.)




Did you also know that MM2 relies on Python2.7 (Recommended) which was
already EoLed?


Um, I've known that for years, thing is MM2 -still-works-! This might be 
why there seem to be a fair number of MM2 installs out there in production.


My first MM2 install was probably 18-20 years ago.

z!


--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: New mailman instance

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 5/3/2024 4:25 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

Not to answer your question, but may I suggest you stop learning about
Mailman2 and look at Mailman3 instead?


Last I checked, MM3 was just not suitable for a small set of smaller 
lists and to be maintained by less experienced people.


Perhaps that's changed, has it?

z!

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Digest not being received in a timely fashion

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/8/2024 8:58 PM, j...@janalexander.ca wrote:

1. Where do I see the raw text of the received digest?


It depends on how you're reading the email. In Thunderbird, control-U 
will open a new windows with the raw message. Roundcube Webmail has a 
"show source" button, other clients should have something similar.



2. What is MTA?


Mail Transfer Agent - the software that moves email between servers.

z!


--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Attach footer only once?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/12/2024 5:30 AM, Richard wrote:
That's just silly: We've had "diff" for over THREE full decades now, to say 
nothing of the variants.


And diff is going to fail for this, at least part of the time.

A VERY straight-forward strategy would be to diff the current inbound 
against the previous one it was in reply to - using threading as already 
cited. No LLM is needed, well trained or otherwise, and neither is it "quite 
complex." 


I beg to differ. First... which is really the "previous message"? How does 
it deal with varying amounts of leading whitespace or quote markings. How 
will it deal with multi-part messages.



One strategy is to count the number of consecutive quote-marked lines and 
set a threshold for how many is too much, often that's a percentage of total 
lines and varied by the message size.


If using diff is straightforward, please code up something to drop in the 
mailman pipeline. Include the test cases used to verify it.


Later,

z!

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@mail-archive.com

[Mailman-Users] Re: Attach footer only once?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/9/2024 3:31 PM, H Ian Zhang via Mailman-Users wrote:

  This is, of course, an organisational/educationl issue, not a technical one.


And unfortunately, solving "people problems" with technology seldom ends well.

(arguments for top posting and not trimming quotes-
"But it's got the entire conversation in the message! You never need the 
older messages"
"You say that like it's a good thing, and I already -have- the older 
messages. In my inbox.")


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Attach footer only once?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/8/2024 3:24 PM, Tim Houseman wrote:

Is it possible for footers to only be attached once? I am hosting a legal
mailing list and their footer is quite long. We recently updated to
Mailman 3 and the list has become more active as a result but in that
activity the users have noticed that the footer just continually stacks
up at the bottom of subsequent emails.
Generally that's because once you reply, what appears as a footer becomes 
part of the  message body. There may be a "plug-in" that will find and cut 
them out.


Is there any way to avoid this scenario? 


Teach the users to edit their postings? (Top-posting is a major contributing 
factor in this, and while it's common in business IMHO it's still bad form 
for many other reasons.)


Do you -need- such a long footer? Can you simply include a link to the 
disclaimer elsewhere?


BTW, there's a different mailing list for mailman3, might want to ask about 
it there.


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Web page hosts that offer Mailman

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 11/21/2023 6:35 AM, Robert A. Hamilton wrote:

Any suggestions?


Sure, check the FAQ for "Mailman hosting services" 
(https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services); also this has been 
covered in the list archives more than a couple of times (links in the footer).


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Excessive or fatal bounces issue

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 8/3/2023 8:28 PM, Florin Pasăre wrote:

I know we should upgrade, but because of
company policies this is not really an option at the moment, at least not
an upgrade to Mailman 3.


Even upgrading to the 2.1.39 (latest) would be a good idea and may solve 
some of the problems. (It's a fairly easy upgrade, please look into it.)


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Excessive or fatal bounces issue

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/31/2023 5:53 AM, Florin Pasăre wrote:

We are using Mailman 2.1.15.


Why are you using such an old version of mailman? It's quite possible that a 
newer version, along with DKIM/SPF DNS records that Odhiambo mentioned, 
would clear up at least part of the problems.


Also, please look at which domains are bouncing mail and how often. Can you 
individually send to those people?


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Python 2.7.15, etc, vs Python3...

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/18/2023 6:39 AM, rich...@karmannghia.org wrote:

Why isn't it just "Python"?


Werlll...

https://www.pluralsight.com/resources/blog/cloud/the-story-of-python-2-and-3
"Python 3 exists because Guido saw areas of the language that needed some 
improvements and the changes couldn’t be made with backward compatibility in 
mind."

(This wisdom of that has been hotly debated.)

Mind that there is -quite- a lot of p2 code out there that will never be 
changed. There are also a lot of hard feelings about the incompatibilities, 
and I know several companies that elected to rewrite into Rust or Go (or 
other languages) instead of to p3.


Having said that, IMHO it's not really on-topic for this list.

Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Python 2.7.15, etc, vs Python3...

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/17/2023 5:54 PM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote:
Python 2 and Python 3 are enough different to effectively be different 
languages.


BTW, there is a python2 to 3 converter, however -I- don't know how 
successful that would be and I've done multiple language conversions over 
time (basic->fortran, different dialects of fortran, perl->tcl, and a few 
others); there are always gotcha's that need hand editing to make them work 
or be sensible (and if an underlying library function is missing you'll have 
to get it from somewhere).


https://docs.python.org/3/library/2to3.html

If anyone feels like a "project", getting MM2 to run on python3 would be 
both a challenge and a service.


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Python 2.7.15, etc, vs Python3...

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/17/2023 5:24 PM, rich...@karmannghia.org wrote:

Inching forward here folks, trying to get Mailman 2.1.39 going.

[...]

OTOH, can Python3 (what's there now) be THAT backwards incompatible?!


Oh yes it can! In some ways, it's a completely different language (and for 
that reason, MM2 hasn't been "ported" to python3).


You'll find a fair amount of discussion about this in the list archive.

Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman 2.1.15 doesn't allow admin changes on private lists

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/5/2023 12:54 PM, Charles Buckley wrote:

My server is one of those shared servers, to which I do not have shell
access. Mailman would have to be reinstalled by the sysadmins -- I
can't do it. I have involved them, but they're still coming up to
speed.


That in itself is a trifle worrying-- a provider that hasn't been keeping 
their software even reasonably up-to-date.


2.1.39 was released 13-Dec-2021
2.1.16 was released 16-Oct-2013
(so 2.1.15 was before that, so call it ten years old)

IMNSHO, there's no excuse for being that far out of date.

Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman 2.1.15 doesn't allow admin changes on private lists

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/5/2023 1:27 AM, Charles Buckley wrote:

Any advice would be appreciated.


My first advice would be to upgrade to the current 2.1 mailman (.39?) and 
try it again; 2.15 is -really- old and this behavior may be due to a bug 
that's been fixed.


z!

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Question about content filtering in message body

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 5/18/2023 9:45 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

rspamd or spamassassin, not clamav!


Ah, yes. Not enough coffee in my yet.

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: Question about content filtering in message body

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 5/18/2023 8:44 AM, Scott High wrote:
I'm looking for a way to content filter the text of the message body (i.e. blacklist bad words, etc) to a list. I've looked at Content Filtering, but that appears to be associated with message type, not message text? And Topics filters appears to just be focused on the header and subject information? 


Sounds like you want the equivalent of a spam filter, and that sort of 
filtering should be applied before the email even gets to mailman.


If you're using *nix, clam-av should do the job and isn't difficult to set up.

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Member address: arch...@jab.org

[Mailman-Users] Re: where is the mailman2 config file loacted - VPS server, running centos 7, WHM / cpanel 106.0.13,

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 1/24/2023 9:37 AM, jerry.barna...@gmail.com wrote:

So here is the problem that I am trying to solve - I can automate adding
/removing users to lists and addiing/removing lists ... but I don't see
anyway to automate the setting of the moderation flag on or off for
adding email addresses to: List of non-member addresses whose postings
should be automatically accepted. (Sender Filters)


If you have shell access to mailman, many things can be scripted using 
things in the ./bin/ directory- add_members, config_list, newlist, withlist, 
etc.


Without shell access, I think you're kinda limited to the interfaces that 
cpanel provides and to the mailman web pages.


Later,

z!
who doesn't use cpanel, so doesn't know that much about it
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: where is the mailman2 config file loacted - VPS server, running centos 7, WHM / cpanel 106.0.13,

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 1/24/2023 8:45 AM, jerry.barna...@gmail.com wrote:

Where is this file - wanting to change the mailman db to use Mariadb and there 
is supposed to be a config setting where I can change the db that mailman uses


You might be thinking of Mailman3; most Mailman2 info is kept in python 
"pickles" (.pck) although a little is in .db files. (There is no one 
database in mailman2.)


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL -- Automatically Sending List to Spam Folder

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 10/19/2022 5:26 PM, Robert Heller wrote:

You should be aware that AOL is Yahoo.  So what is really happening is *Yahoo
Mail* is doing this.  Yahoo bought AOL, Verizon bought Yahoo, and then Verizon
sold Yahoo to a holding company.


Did they merge the email systems?

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman2 issue - "Your message was rejected"

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 9/27/2022 9:16 PM, Yuki Nie wrote:

When I send an email to a mailling list from a non-member, I got the error msg "Your 
message was rejected".
However, the non-member has been defined in accept_these_nonmembers = 
['test-info@xx'].


some options:
accept_these_nonmembers = ['test-info@xx']


Check the actual email headers, while the message might say it's coming from 
"asdf.com", the sending server could be "mail.asdf.com" and those two are 
different. May not be that exactly, look for things where the header doesn't 
exactly match the accept_these_nonmembers.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Double opt-in, Question about adding people to a Mailman list

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 5/22/2022 12:17 AM, Jayson Smith wrote:
Recently our president has become concerned that some people wanting to join 
the group may not be responding to the standard Mailman subscription 
confirmation message because, from the From: line and the subject line, 
they're not sure what it is and don't want to open it.


That's not an uncommon problem but it's often managed simply by some 
instructions that explain what they'll receive-


"When you ask to subscribe and enter your email address, you will soon 
receive an email there that looks like (insert example); you must Reply to 
that email in order to be added to the %%%-list. We do this to make sure 
that your email works and that you want to receive mail from it."


or something like that

Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: group mismatch

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 5/16/2022 4:31 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

That's a Debian 'feature'.


Which then makes me wonder if there are other Debian "features" getting in 
the way.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: group mismatch

[Carl Zwanzig]

Going back to the original email-

On 5/15/2022 4:35 PM, Jon Baron wrote:

"Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
executed as one of the following groups:
[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],
but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "baron".
Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody, daemon],"


_Something_ (possibly procmail) was executing the mailman wrapper which 
produced the message above. When it was exec'd, for some reason the GID it 
was started under wasn't good.


One thing is odd about the message above, it says "one of the groups"
whereas some versions (eg 2.1.25) have "Mailman expected the %s wrapper to 
be executed as group" (singular). Could be that the OP's version is rather old.


Later,

z!



--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: group mismatch

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 5/16/2022 3:42 AM, Jon Baron wrote:

  procmail is not
"running". It is not listed in any version of "ps". It is evoked by
sendmail or by /etc/aliases.db. sendmail and aliases.db are both owned
by root and smmsp.


It is "run" or "envoked" on-demand by sendmail to execute the line in the 
alias file; you'll only see it in ps when actually running.



the procmail man file states
-m
[...] If the rcfile is an absolute path starting with /etc/procmailrcs/ 
without backward references (i.e. the parent directory cannot be mentioned) 
procmail will, only if no security violations are found, take on the 
identity of the owner of the rcfile (or symbolic link). [...]


[that path may change in different versions of procmail]

That last sentence is important- check the ownership of /etc/procmailrc, I'm 
betting it's "baron"; that can happen easily when editing.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: What regular expressions are allowed for Mailman topics?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 5/14/2022 9:58 AM, frank.thom...@gmx.net wrote:

Out Mailman version is 2.1.9
Really? 2.1.9 is over 15 years old and 30 releases behind.

Don't tell me :-).  But we can't influence that.  We are just consumers of this 
service


You need to start consuming a new service :).

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman2 x Debian 11 x Python3

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 5/10/2022 11:57 AM, Andre de Azevedo Cunha wrote:

Its possible to run mailman2 in debian11 (with python3)?


MM2 will not run with python3 without major changes (and is considered 
end-of-life because of that).


You might try on the mailman 3 user's list for ideas about that feature.

Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Step by step guide to installing Mailman

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 4/5/2022 7:10 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

  Carl is simply explaining why Mailman 2 may still be a good choice.


Exactly, look at the up- and down-sides of each then decide.

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Step by step guide to installing Mailman

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 4/4/2022 5:56 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

Please note that Mailman-2.x (2.1.37 is the latest) is slowly being EoLed
because Python-2.7 is EoL.


Please also note that for some uses and for some people, MM2 is probably 
still the better choice- quicker/easier to install and as I understand has 
features that haven't been implemented in MM3.


For a few small lists, I myself wouldn't use MM3 (the fact that python2.7 is 
EoL matters very little to me, it still runs the code just as well).


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Moderation bit not working?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/15/2022 4:41 PM, billy noah wrote:

The reason is:

Reason:  Post by non-member to a members-only list
Which is clearly wrong. I've double and triple checked and this person is
definitely a member.


Often this happens when email addresses slightly differ, such as 
"c...@mail.domain.com" vs "c...@domain.com". Take a close look the sender's 
actual email address in the logs and what's in the mailing list.


z!

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: illegal BOM

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/3/2022 5:58 AM, Christian via Mailman-Users wrote:

 From tine to time I get bounce messages (for several recipients, today 4 of a 
total of 165) with the folloeing content:


Are those coming from the same recipients? same hosts? (same sender?) 
Looking for any commonality between failures.


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: is log4j2 leveraged in Mailman version 2.1.14-1?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 12/10/2021 1:28 PM, John Lake wrote:

@Carl Zwanzig--  excellent point, I've inherited this older version of
Mailman and its definitely on my maintenance debt list to upgrade to ver
3+.  
You can upgrade to 2.1.current(35?) quite easily, might take an hour :D. 
Highly recommended.


z!

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: is log4j2 leveraged in Mailman version 2.1.14-1?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 12/10/2021 1:00 PM, David Gibbs via Mailman-Users wrote:

On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 2:40 PM John Lake  wrote:

Does Mailman version 2.1.14-1 utilize Java logging library log4j2 and if so, 
what version does it use?


Mailman is written in python ... it doesn't use java libraries at all.


And if they're still running 2.1.14, they have a heap of other security holes.

Later,

z!


--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: customized From handling?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 11/5/2021 12:02 PM, Rich Morin wrote:

In any event, the blinux-list admins would probably be more inclined to
update within version 2.1.x (and tweak the config a bit) than to move to
version 3.

For casual use, setting up mailman3 is a lot of work IMHO.


Where can I find the right place to post a feature request for Mailman 2.1.x?


It would be here (this list), but pretty much nobody is adding features to 
v2 anymore*, even security patches only happen when really needed. (I 
suppose though that if someone did develop a feature patch, it would be 
considered.)


*mailman2 runs on python2, which is way past it's stated end-of-life; 
migrating anything from python2 to python3 is a large undertaking so the 
developers are concentrating on mailman3 (w/ python3).


There's probably something in the wiki about this.

z!
not a mailman developer, just a long-time user
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: customized From handling?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 11/5/2021 11:48 AM, Rich Morin wrote:

Apologies for the confusion and thanks for the clarification.  As a complete 
newbie to Mailman, I didn't even notice that there was a major revision 
involved :-).  Looking at the headers of a recent blinux-list message, I see:


X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12

Which is positively _ancient_.


Meanwhile, looking athttps://launchpad.net/mailman/+milestone/2.1.15, I see:

This is the final release of Mailman 2.1.15.  ...


Might be on launchpad, but Mailman v2 itself is at 2.1.35; there have been 
many features and security patches since .15.


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Web requests with garbage at the end of the list name

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 8/18/2021 1:15 PM, David Gibbs via Mailman-Users wrote:

The pattern is rather consistent ... "__;!NV" followed by a bunch of garbage.


I don't recognize the encoding, but that looks like someone is trying an SQL 
injection attack. I could also be wrong.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: User receiving mail, but not subscribed

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 8/16/2021 10:30 AM, Jim Dory wrote:
I've asked her to run it by the IT department of her corporation, but 
thought I would ask here in case there is something I need to do instead. I 
thought that the "on behalf of listname-requ...@domain.com" was pretty 
unusual, or something I don't usually see anyway.


Sounds like a microsoft exchange/outlook thing- the "on behalf of" part. 
Could be they have an internal list that's subscribed to the MM list, or 
that the MM list member is a secretary/assistant of the final recipient.


If you can, the the full SMTP headers and look at the top/most-recent 
Received: lines; that'll show the handoff-


(the message I'm replying to)
Received: from mail.python.org (mail.python.org [188.166.95.178])
(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by host.hosting.service (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1FA6487B1
for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2021 15:01:50 -0400 (EDT)

See who it's for in there.

Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: the mailman group was deleted on our 2.120 running on ubuntu 18.04. no mail being distributed now

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 8/12/2021 3:52 AM, avra...@jct.ac.il wrote:

we re-created the group, but that has not fixed the problem.
Was it created with the same GID? Check that first (run 
mailman/bin/check_perms).



in order to restore normal operation, perhaps something must be done to
this group besides simply creating it.
Group ID always exist because they're just numbers, all the /etc/groups file 
does is map the ID to a name. I actually suspect that something else is 
going on... do you see "group mismatch" errors in the mailman logs or in 
bounce messages?


See-
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Understanding%20group%20mismatch%20errors%20-%20how%20mailman%20implements%20security

Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Feature Request - Show Member Name but not email address

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/19/2021 6:59 AM, Gregory Beyer wrote:
  Would you please add to the 
Privacy Options section, Membership Exposure, an option to show only the 
member name, but keep their email address hidden from the member list, that 
non-admin members may view?  I'd like my members to see who, by name, is on 
the list, but not divulge their email addresses./


An email address is not required to have name text, so you'll potentially 
see unidentified subscriptions. Or sub's that say "Fred ". In 
most of the lists I manage, there are quite a lot of unnamed members (who 
where all approved for membership by an admin).


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Freebsd & mailman

[Carl Zwanzig]

(subject changed to protect the original thread)

On 6/6/2021 6:21 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:

PS Sadly, FreeBSD.org are abandonning Mailman-2 for mlmmj !

?

Do you mean the freebsd.org-hosted lists or the freebsd port? I've been 
running mm2 on freebsd for quite a long time, never from the port, always 
from the mm2 source, so whether there's a "supported" port has never even 
crossed my mind. The only downside is that python2 is legacy/abandoned. 
(Given the overall weight of mm3, I'll stick with 2 until there's a really 
good reason, and there hasn't been one, yet.)


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: What to do when hosting providers frequently gets listed on an RBL

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 6/5/2021 1:31 PM, Christian Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:

Hello Mark Sapiro. On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 12:44:52 -0700, you wrote:



In the past, Brian Carpenter of EMWD would have responded by now with
an offer to support your list and help move it, but tragically, Brian
recently died from a COVID virus infection.

This is too bad news - was it mentioned in this list before?


Was just wondering that, too.


I would like to express my condolences to his family and to all who knew him!


The same.

(If you -can- get the vacc, just do it. Now. In the USA, they're free to the 
recipient.)


z!
not wanting to get political here
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: GNU Mailman condemns reinstatement of RMS

[Carl Zwanzig]

IMNSHO a technical mailing list is not the place to argue about politics. If 
you don't like the actions taken MM board, talk to them; don't bother the 
rest of us with it.


(In keeping with that, I've removed my original rebuttals to Ruben from this 
message.)


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: AT RBL again

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/30/2021 9:28 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

I had two servers blocked by ATT, fortunately not this one. They were
both DigitalOcean droplets,[...]


FWIW, a couple of my regular correspondents have said that DO generally does 
not have a great email reputation, and that they're moving lists to other 
platforms.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: What does rmlist remove?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/23/2021 4:18 AM, Johannes Rohr wrote:

what files are being removed by rmlist (without -a). I suppose,
/var/lib/mailman/lists/$LISTNAME/config.pck and the entries in
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

When I restore both, have I restored the list? Mailman2 uses no
database, so maybe the answer is yes?


glancing at the code (in the ./bin directory), rmlist removes

contents of the /lists/ directory
held messages
stale locks
any MTA-specific aliases (e.g. aliases or virtual-mailman)
archives

the config.pck file -is- the "database" for each list.

Read up on how the virtualization stuff works, too.

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Migration to new server questions after having done research & testing ahead of time.

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/17/2021 8:32 AM, Bader, Robert (Bob) wrote:


I am basically handed a new server that has Mailman & Apache  installed.

Danger are those current software?


   *   Am I missing anything?

Yes...


   *   Also old server is version 2.1.12 and new version is version 2.1.15. 
will that be an issue?
Yes, upgrade to the current mailman, 2.1.15 is _ancient_. Heck, isn't centos 
7 considered ancient at this point?


IMHO it's almost always better to install mailman from source than from an 
old package.



A couple of other things-
test the new MTA before trying with mailman
do all the copies before setting permissions

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: is there a short instruction guide available?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/17/2021 9:04 AM, Jeffrey Westgate wrote:

We are trying to determine the best methods of taking a long-working
mailman list server, with 43 active lists, and 'moving' it behind an F5.
Unless I'm dreadfully mistaken, the f5 should be transparent to the traffic 
if the rules are set correctly. (Been a long time since I dealt with one.) 
You may have to add some DNS names for the moved server and will have some 
downtime while testing.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Does mailman work well for large lists?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/27/2021 11:42 AM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote:
I don't think the number of lists is as important as the number of 
subscribers on each list.


IIRC, there are/were some MM2 lists of over 100k subscribers. Key is to 
supply enough resources (proc & memory, bonus for fast storage).




Windows or Linux server recommended?


My vote is for Linux (or another Unix varient).


I prefer FreeBSD for server work, but yes, definitely not windows.

Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Export members

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 1/27/2021 7:58 AM, David Doonan via Mailman-Users wrote:

Is there a way to export the members of a list?


the bin/list_members script in the mailman directory; needs shell access

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: CPU %-usage surge associated with list archives

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 11/17/2020 8:30 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Are we FHS conformant?  If not, why would it be a bad idea to become
FHS-conformant (aaside from the effort required)?


I don't think so and that would probably break non linux systems (e.g. 
xBSD). Might be OK to add FHS as an option to the configure script if anyone 
wanted to go that route.


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Carl Zwanzig]

For clarity- As I understand, given the language differences MM3 was a 
complete rewrite of MM2, so the only common parts are some features, the use 
of python (at all), and the name. Yes? Therefore anyone working on MM2 isn't 
impeding the work on MM3, especially if they weren't going to work on MM3 
anyway.



On 8/28/2020 3:02 PM, Chip Davis wrote:
[...] These are three quite diverse codebases, each with their 
contributors/committers and project-level discussion groups, but there is 
quite a bit of cross-team communication and collaboration.


Just like with net/open/free BSD (and related or spinoff projects), and with 
things being ported between them and to/from linux. The world still hasn't 
ended.



It's all well and good to say "_We_ don't want to maintain this code.", it's 
vastly different to say "Pay no attention to that GPL, no one is allowed to 
maintain or improve that code." With the former, might as well welcome in a 
group of people to the overall project with the express intent of 
maintaining 2.x. With the latter, it's off into saying "no maintenance, no 
changes, nothing" and probably the same group of people will fork off the 
code-base, maybe change the name, and do their maintenance/updates anyway.


Or... it's pretty likely that MM2 maintenance, and maybe improvements, will 
continue in some fashion. The question is whether that's under the auspices 
of the gnu-mailman project or in a fork. If the existing gnu-mailman team 
doesn't want new members working on old code, and that's the way it sounds, 
just say so and give the blessing for a code fork.


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 8/27/2020 9:54 AM, Phil Stracchino wrote:

Currently there is no active ebuild for mailman in Gentoo.  2.1.33 has
been masked, there is no 2.1.34, and 3.3.0 and 3.3.1 exist but have not
yet been marked stable or unmasked. 


FWIW, FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE amd64 has 2.1.34 in both the pkg repo and the 
ports tree. I do not see a MM3 package but didn't look too closely.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 8/26/2020 8:17 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote:
I am sure Mark has moved on from Mailman 2, at least he has said that on 
numerous occasions. It is you folks that won't let him. You want to keep 
using MM2 and you want the developers to keep supporting it. That pressure 
can/does hinder the work on Mailman 3.


Just who is this "you folks" that you're talking about??? Have _I_ ever 
demanded that Mark fix something? (Jim? Dmitri? others in this 
conversation?) I don't think so. Heck, I'm sure I've answered, or at least 
responded to, many more questions on this list than I've asked.



I offer shared and dedicated environments for Mailman 3 and none 
of my clients have to worry about the complexities of Mailman 3 at all.


Again, you've missed the point- it's not about "clients", it's about us 
individually. Us who operate lists on our own systems for our own use.




I didn't like the way Carl quoted an old piece of information and when he
was corrected, proceeded to dig in his heels. I didn't like a lurker who
never posted to any Mailman list before, suddenly come out of the
woodwork to mock me on the use of "long life"


Oh, boy...
a) I quoted a piece of info _with_reference_ and you quoted the next 
paragraph from the _same_page_!  It's "digging in my heels" when called on 
that? If one piece is correct, it's reasonable to assume the other is too. 
If they're not, don't point the finger at me (and go change the doc).

b) I really hope you're not calling me a "lurker".


By the way there is always a choice. I have been offering Mailman 3 shared 
list hosting for almost 2 years now. It's that few extra dollars a month 
that is a budget breakers for cheap host users. Oh well.


And I run MM2 for no cost for myself and friends. I have other friends who 
run it at no cost for -their- groups, none of them are chomping to run MM3 
because they don't see much point. It's not about . (You do realize that 
some folks still use CRT monitors and are quite happy with them. Should 
those be replaced? Why?)



I know now that none of you have any intention of using or supporting 
Mailman 3. My pro MM3 comments have been mocked, ignored, and discarded. Ok. 
No, your "my way or the highway" comments have been mocked and discarded. If 
MM3 offered me a benefit, I might consider using it if the cost (which 
includes my own time) made it worth while.



Fine. I think none of you has shown any respect or appreciation in the work 
that has been done to propel the Mailman project into the modern web 
development world.

Not correct.

That shows that all you really care about is your wallets 

No, wallets aren't included ($$ cost is not a factor).

and how much you may have to work to move your lists to a Mailman 3 
environment.
Yes, why should we do a bunch of work for no appreciable benefit? I haven't 
seen a relevant answer.


This isn't about Mailman at all. It's about how can have a 
mailing list and stay using a cheap budget host. 
??? My "cheap host" is a machine in the back room. Other MM2 operators I 
know buy raw iron or colo space to run their lists. Why are you hung up on 
hosted MM?




For Jim? Well I don't really care why he doesn't use Mailman 3. I think
his claims about wanting to support Mailman is a joke. If he really
wanted to support the Mailman project, then he would throw his weight
behind Mailman 3.

So... you've just said that "my way or the highway" again.


I really don't understand this almost visceral disdain for anyone wanting to 
run some older software _that_works_for_them_. Or disdain for someone who 
offers to maintain that older software. Heck, that's part of the point of 
open-source software, when one person steps back another can step forward. 
Jim has offered to do that; while my python isn't good*, I might help him 
because I also use the software.

*(I don't see much need for it)


Next, I suppose someone is going to tell me I have to stop using mp2 files 
because mp4 is so much better or something like that.


Really, just give it a rest.

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 8/26/2020 3:50 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote:

On 8/26/20 6:25 PM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:



So they will not notice a migration to Mailman 3 at all then.


You miss the point- _I'll_ notice, I'm the one who'd be doing the work.


Also, from https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/pre-installation-guide.html
"The short version is that as of now, upgrading from Mailman 2.1 to 
Mailman 3.1 is buggy."


I am pretty sure that documentation is old. Here is a quote from the above 
page:

[...]

Old? You've quoted the next paragraph on the same page.

And why would I use linux when I have FreeBSD? :)

That is good as long as no major "DMARC" events come along. Nobody is 
complaining that folks are using MM2. But I am seeing some complaints 
pointed at the MM developers for no longer willing to develop MM2.


That's a completely separate topic and you'll have noticed that I'm not one 
of the complainers.



See, the problem here is, the developers did develop and improve the
Mailman project, its just now called Mailman 3. So embrace and respect
their hard work and move your dang lists to Mailman 3!


When I get to it, maybe in 2022.

The thing is- no matter how much you may want people to "upgrade", there 
just aren't sufficient reasons for potentially a lot of small list 
operators. Perhaps I'm a luddite- I drive a 15 year old car because it 
works, most of my home systems are 5+ years old because they work and are 
plenty fast for the load, I use a 18? year old Brother printer because it 
works, etc. When one of them stops working it'll get replaced (if I can't 
repair it). There is little reason to replace things that still function as 
much as one needs.



On 8/26/2020 4:02 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:

There is absolutely no reason against, and there are certainly several
examples for, having 2 or more active development branches in an open
source (or closed source for that matter) project.
I heartily agree. Developers move on all the time and sometimes others pick 
up the codebase and run with it. Embrace that.


Later,

z!
who also plays with a 100 year old steam tractor and a 120 year old printing 
press; both do their jobs well

--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman v2.x

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 8/26/2020 2:05 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote:
Get off a ship that is no longer sailing ahead and wants to instead to 
permanently anchor in place.


As someone regularly uses and maintains a fair bit of old and antique 
machinery, MM2 still has a lot of life in it. Yes, the original team isn't 
going to do much with it, but others probably will. And for someone who 
wants to run a few simple lists* , MM3 is, um, rather a heavyweight. If I'm 
reading things correctly, in addition to the web server you need python3, 
django, a sass compiler (w/ ruby overhead), anything else? It certainly 
doesn't look as easy to install or configure as MM2.


*(I have 3 lists, at most 50 people on each, hardly ever any changes)


Also, from https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/pre-installation-guide.html
"The short version is that as of now, upgrading from Mailman 2.1 to Mailman 
3.1 is buggy."



So, it's likely that a lot of people will still be using MM2 for at least a 
few years (heck there are are Solaris -7- systems out there, happily running 
production code). That ship is happily performing it's daily passenger runs.


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Compiling mailaman-2.1.x against python3.x

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/18/2020 2:50 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:


On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 20:37, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
  > Which is expected because Mailman 2.1 does not support Python 3 and
  > never will.

(If anyone knows about this, it's Mark.)


Python3.x is also supposed to work.

(See above)


I'd like to work with python3.6 or python3.7. How do I do that?
From the previous conversations on this list, it looks like you're pretty 
much on your own for that. First thing would be running the entire MM2 
codebase through the python 2->3 converter process, but I have no idea what 
it will need past that. I'm sure there are pages that detail the syntactic 
and semantic differences between the version. These differences are some of 
the reasons that python2 is still around.


BTW, I took at quick look at this conversion 8-10 months ago and decided it 
wasn't worth my time to chase down all of the issues.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Compiling mailaman-2.1.x against python3.x

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/18/2020 12:14 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

I am trying to manually compile mailman-2.1.34 against python3.x on
FreeBSD-12.1 because python2.7 is being EoLed on the platform.


2.7 is still available for Freebsd 12.1 and won't stop working just being EOL'd.


This may have changed, but-
On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 20:37, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> On 1/7/19 1:22 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> > I need to install Mailman2.1 using python3.x, but I have had some
> problem.
> >
> > On my Ubuntu-18.04 server, I have both python2.7 and python3.6.
> > Now, everything is all fine with python2.7, but when I use python3.6, it
> > bombs out:
>
>
> Which is expected because Mailman 2.1 does not support Python 3 and
> never will.

If you don't want to update the codebase or move to MM3, you're pretty much 
stuck with 2.7.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: error installing Mailman 2.1.12

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 6/18/2020 12:42 PM, Anatoly Oreshkin wrote:

Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
Downgrade detected, from version 0x20114f0 to version 0x2010cf0
This is probably not safe.
Exiting.
make: *** [update] Error 1

What is the cause of these  errors ?
How to solve this problem ?


Looks like you already have 2.1.14 installed in /usr/local/mailman, why 
downgrade to .12? Some downgrades are safe (no data/format changes), some 
are not (I don't know about 14->12). Either way, a full backup of the 
mailman hierarchy is in order before changing anything.


That said, you really ought to go with the latest, which is 2.1.33, unless 
there's a really good reason not to.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: searchable private mailing lists in Mailman 2.1.20

[Carl Zwanzig]

Please keep this on-list

On 6/18/2020 12:23 PM, Anatoly Oreshkin wrote:

My private list archives are local files and directories. Mnogosearch can
search my list archives but
how to integrate Mailman and Mnogosearch ?
I need a mnogosearch search   string to be on Mailman archive TOC page


I think those pages are generated by code in ./mailman/Mailman/Archiver, but 
you'll have to look for where the archive index.html page is generated and 
add the HTML code for the search. I can not help with that.



I choose Mnogosearch because of its ability to support russian character
encoding


OK, any decent search engine should support UTF, which will pretty much 
include all encodings.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: searchable private mailing lists in Mailman 2.1.20

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 6/18/2020 2:46 AM, Anatoly Oreshkin wrote:
I've installed Mailman 2.1.20 on my server. 


That is rather old now, you'll do better installing the current version 
unless there's a strong reason not to.




I would like to have the possibility to search private mailing lists. As
mailing lists contain russian letters so I need as a search tool
Mnogosearch search engine. How to  include Mnogosearch in Mailman 2.1.20?
List archives are local (to the server) files and directories, so if 
Mnogosearch can search a directory tree, it should be able to search them. I 
do see that Mnogosearch hasn't been updates since 2015, is that the best 
choice of tool?


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman3 installation for large organization

[Carl Zwanzig]

Hello,

On 6/16/2020 8:27 AM, Waqas Ahmed Khan wrote:


I have been given the task to install Mailman3 for a large organization,
where the list will send emails to 80-100K users.


First, you probably want to be asking on the mailman3 list-
https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-us...@mailman3.org/
(this list is mostly mailman2)

and read some of the docs at https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/


1. How to do the hardware sizing and what should be hardware/VM
configuration?
2. Should we install an email server ( Postfix) on the same server?
3. Can we use an external SMTP server like GMAIL/Office365 to route emails,
is there any guide to configuring this?


Yes, maybe, it depends how many total lists? how many messages per day 
per list? to how many recipients? how big are the messages? how fast do they 
need to be delivered? Are the messages "personalized"?  (Sending one 
non-personalized message once a day to 100k people is vastly different from 
sending 50 personalized messages to 50 lists, etc.)


Oh, and how much bandwidth is available to the server? In the best of times 
(and if my math is right), a 1gb/s 'net connection might only send 2k 
messages/second if they're small and the far-end servers are willing. (That 
is a complete WAG, but illustrative.)



4. How to avoid blacklisting of mailing list IPs?


Don't send spam, get the DKIM and SPF records right, avoid sending from IP 
addresses that are already in blacklists :).


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: blocking a hot/inappropriate topic

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 6/12/2020 8:59 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote:

1) is there a way to temporarily disable a mailing list short of removing the 
alias
that points to it?   I was thinking that perhaps I could've put in a "sender 
filter"
that rejected everyone or something like that.


You can put it on "emergency moderation", that moderates -everyone-. The 
messages will still appear in the mod queue, but you can delete them from there.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

[Mailman-Users] Re: Differences between Mailman 2 and 3

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 5/29/2020 2:16 PM, Iain Harrison via Mailman-Users wrote:
I don't understand what the problem is, but following instructions I can 
find anywhere on the web leave me with a setup that simply doesn't work.


Understanding the problems, or at least describing them here, would go a 
long way. (which instructions were used?)


With Debian, it should be a simple matter of "sudo apt-get install 
packagename" but that certainly isn't the case for Mailman!


OK, it's installed. You still have to _configure_ it. (did apt-get not 
_install_ mailman? It certainly won't configure the packages, nor should it.)


Note that once you have the source code, only two commands are required to 
_install_ mailman2- ./configure and make.


see https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html section 3


Now I'm looking for an alternative way to run mailing lists. Can anyone 
suggest either a good alternative, or a way to get Mailman 3 to install?


Get off debian, use postfix & apache, and install MM2 or MM3. I've installed 
MM2 from source multiple times on FreeBSD* and had it available in probably 
under an hour.


*postfix and apache already installed and running

see also 
https://www.howtoforge.com/how-to-install-and-configure-mailman-with-postfix-on-debian-squeeze 
which may not


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
   https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/

Re: [Mailman-Users] Server Migration

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/12/2020 6:06 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote:

Since we don't have access to change DNS it seems
the easiest thing to do is change their hostnames and IP addresses. If
there is a better way I am interested.


It's not a better-or-worse choice, it's the _only_ choice. If the users are 
sending to the server at asdf.domain.tld, you have to make the server answer 
to that IP (which means the name resolves to the IP and the server answers 
the connection).


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Attachment issue in Outlook

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/3/2020 5:43 AM, Kapil Dev Sharma wrote:

We are using mailman 2.1.29. When sending the mail using Mailman, The email
body content is sent as an attachment (ATT1.txt). We face this type of
issues only in outlook. Could you please suggest us the solution for the
same.


The best solution is to not use outlook. IIRC some versions don't construct 
the MIME containers properly, and there isn't much mailman can do about 
that. You might look at the message as sent by outlook in source form to see 
how that version encapsulates the body and then again after it's been 
through mailman.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Cron job to reset member bounce value

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 12/17/2019 10:24 AM, Ethan Rudnitsky wrote:

  the issue with the server/MTA bring offline is a known and
unavoidable issue because of lack of satellite availability overhead for
most of the day unfortunately.


That is an entirely avoidable issue. When a destination MTA is offline/busy 
(which happens all the time and is accounted-for in SMTP), the sending MTA 
usually queues the messages and retries in 15/30/120 minutes, and usually 
keeps that up for at least 24 hours. If the sending MTA is giving up 
immediately and returning a failure, IMHO it's misconfigured (knowing the 
exact error code returned is important, here).


That said, the operator(s) of that server may not be interested in fixing 
the problem.


Do the satellite-served list members receive every message eventually or are 
they content to only receive ones sent during their connectivity window?
 If the -do- get all the messages eventually then they are being retried 
and the temporary failure is being counted as a bounce.


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Cron job to reset member bounce value

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 12/17/2019 9:45 AM, Ethan Rudnitsky wrote:

So there are actually 2 issues causing
bounces here... the first is the mailbox being offline at times, and the
second is that it is getting messages bounced because of message size being
over the limit. 


Sounds like the -server- (aka 'MTA') is offline, and those messages should 
be retried; if they're not being retried, something is generally wrong and 
resetting the bounce counts is only masking that problem.




A few of these same accounts have strict 50KB message
limits because they get their connectivity via Iridium modems, so when
someone sends a message greater than 50KB it is bouncing.


Another option is to create a size-limited list and add that to the main 
list. Or just add a size limit to the existing list unless you're 
sending pictures or large files, most things can be said in under 50kb :) 
(and IMHO there are better ways of distributing larger files than email).


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Cron job to reset member bounce value

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 12/16/2019 9:55 AM, Ethan Rudnitsky wrote:

Can anyone tell me where the actual member bounce value is stored? I want
to setup a cron job to reset the member bounce value to 0 for
certain members whose mailboxes are only active when they have a satellite
overhead to give them internet connectivity (about 8-10 hours each day).
They keep getting disabled because their bounce value breaks the threshold
value but this cannot be avoided due to their location and lack of
internet.


Sounds like a work-around to the real problem- that one of the MTA in the 
delivery chain is not properly retrying the message. In general, most MTAs 
are configured to retry for at least 24 hours and sometimes as long as 5 
days before returning a fatal bounce, so if a destination server is 
off-line, the sending one will try again in an hour or so.


Which error code(s) are you seeing? Some 400 codes are designed to be 
retried later whereas 500's are immediately fatal.


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Best way to slow down all the spam to my lists?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 12/13/2019 10:17 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

To discard so you don't get the messages (don't set it to reject or you
will be backscattering). It does say that you won't see messages that
should go to the list but the send used the wrong account.


That's another good/final option, drop non-list-member email into the 
bit-bucket (or block hole if you prefer).


Later,

z!

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Best way to slow down all the spam to my lists?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 12/12/2019 9:46 AM, Chromatest J. Pantsmaker wrote:

I'm the system admin (though I'm not great at it).  I have a problem with
spam.  Hundreds of spam messages are posted to my lists each week. 


(What's a acceptable level? I wouldn't spend many hours just to eliminate 3 
spams a day.)



Is that the best way to do what I need?


I'd go for #1, filtering at the MTA level, so that mailman generally has 
less to do, for some ideas-


https://www.howtoforge.com/spam-control-for-postfix
https://www.linuxbabe.com/mail-server/block-email-spam-postfix

By implementing some of these, you may decide that spam-assassin isn't 
necessary.


Later,

z!

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] [ext] Re: mailman not functional

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 10/18/2019 12:42 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

I am sort of suspecting postfix as /var/log/maillog is not being written to.

That's bad. So try stopping and starting postfix (after stopping check
with "ps auxwww|fgrep post" to see if there's anything left!!!)

and have a look at /var/log/maillog while doing this.


While I don't object at all to the conversation, this is venturing outside 
of mailman and into system management (DNS function, are the file systems 
full, which processes are running, etc).


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages delivered out of order and delayed

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 9/13/2019 9:50 AM, Veronica Morris wrote:

How do I see mail logs?


You need to talk with Dreamhost to get them, but they should be able to 
assist with the problem. Have you called them?


Later,

z!

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 8/7/2019 6:23 PM, David Gibbs via Mailman-Users wrote:

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 8:18 PM David Josephson  wrote:


Wouldn't it be simple enough just to use rot13, or the senders name
without the domain?


The first thing they redact is the users name.


That's if they edit (or send) the footer at all. You could edit the footer 
generation code to rot13 the name or perhaps put it in the msg body. Or even 
to put the message ID in the footer, too.


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Finding list user in redacted FBL reports

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 8/7/2019 1:17 PM, Scott Neader wrote:

I need a way to put some clue about the recipient into the footer, when
personalization is enabled.  I've seen some past solutions where admins
were successful in adding some type of hash or encoded version of the
recipient's email address into the footer, but the steps to get that done
were not shared.  Open to other ideas.


See-
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/What%20variables%20can%20I%20use%20in%20the%20headers%20and%20footers%20added%20to%20messages%20by%20Mailman%3F

I regularly get email from a list with the footer (redacted)
===
UUU mailing list
u...@domain.org
http://listsmgt.DOMAIN.org/mailman/listinfo/UUU
Sent to Carl Zwanzig at zb...@sonic.net
All posts to the UUU mailing list are copyright the individual senders.
===


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to see the original email contents?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/19/2019 6:13 PM, Steven Owens wrote:

The received email is lacking a bunch of included text.  It's unclear
if this is user error, or some quirk of the email client or system (I
believe yahoo email done via phone app), or if Mailman somehow
automatically clipped it out.


I don't think mailman is capable of editing the message body in that way, my 
money would be on the yahoo mail app. (If nothing else, the SMTP log should 
show the size of the message sent to mailman. That might get you somewhere.)


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] English (USA)

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/8/2019 1:51 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:

I just keep getting reminded that we specifically support USA English
and we offer no other English language support.


I'm not clear on what other English needs support. (This kind of seems like 
a solution in search of a problem.)


Later,

z!

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Maximum attachment size

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 6/6/2019 4:58 PM, Bryan Blackwell wrote:

This setup handles other attachments pretty well, just this particular
person posts much larger files.  Below is the log entry, it looks like an
out of memory condition.  Perhaps I need to tune python itself?
This really sounds like a "too many errors in line, make fewer" problem 
(tell the guy to send smaller attachments). I know if someone was sending 
20MB attachments on a list -I'm- on, we'd be having a polite discussion 
about it.


Later,

z!
who tends to set the max message size to maybe 40KB to discourage non-text 
traffic

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Migrated Mailman to another server

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 5/31/2019 11:34 AM, Ryan McClung wrote:

Close this. I figured it out.


What was the problem?

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Now that Python 2 is dead in 2020 what are people's plans with mailman2?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 4/10/2019 11:36 AM, Dimitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users wrote:

With a properly sandboxed application your security vulnerability has to
be a) exploitable through that application and b) able to break out of
the sandbox and wreak havoc to your host system.


Exactly.


(That said, given the history of python, my question would be if there
are any plans to port MM2 to golang or maybe gnat.)


Or rust, or python3 (which might be the easiest). I'm not sufficiently up on 
the python differences, but. it can't be -that- difficult. (and 
aren't there tools to assist? some code claims to be both v2 and v3 
compatible) (gnat? that's really ada, isn't it?)



The main thing is that from appearances MM3 is large enterprise-grade list 
manager, but many of us don't need that, we need something for a few (<100?) 
lists with a few (<500?) members. I can run that on a small BSD box; 
spinning up django, sass, (docker?), and whatever else is overkill for the 
purpose and adds to the maintenance load. Heck, with MM2 I'd dump apache for 
a simpler server if it wasn't already set up.



Maybe there's a place for a community-driven port of MM2 onto python3. I am 
not volunteering, too many other projects currently.


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Now that Python 2 is dead in 2020 what are people's plans with mailman2?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 4/10/2019 8:36 AM, Matthew Goebel wrote:

   Now that all support for Python 2 is supposed to go away in 2020 are
people going to move
off of mailman 2?  I've been looking at mailman 3 and finding it hard to
grok after using
mailman 2 for many years.  I haven't seen a discussion about this so I
thought I would
check and see if people were willing to share their thoughts.


Well... for the few and small lists I run, MM3 is a sledgehammer driving 
carpet tacks. I'll probably continue with MM2 until either it's ported to 
python3 or I stop running these lists. (Then, I also drive a 18 year old car 
because it still works.)


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam / Email Spoofing Problem (SPF check possible?)

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 4/5/2019 10:59 AM, Valentin Schwarze via Mailman-Users wrote:

 We happend to have some spam
issues on our mailman lists. These spammers were able to send emails on
our lists through mail spoofing (only faking the From: field in the
header is sufficient to get accepted). 


Do you have any mail/virus scanning in the pipeline before mailman? They're 
usually better tools for the job.



PS: Used Mailman Version is 2.1.18


Consider upgrading to the current version, too.

(Looks like Mark just posted about this, too.)

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to prodigy.net mail server addresses

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/11/2019 1:21 PM, Joseph Brennan wrote:

The DNS records look perfect to me. If you're going through a time warp to
Prodigy maybe the new top-levels like .place don't work yet? You get the
error after MAIL FROM because that's the earliest point when a server is
allow


Prodigy isn't the only one; a friend has an .xyz domain that gets bounced 
often enough to be annoying (IIRC his bank and one credit card won't they 
it, there may be others).


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject

[Carl Zwanzig]

To analogize the entire thread-

Mailman is a high quality precision-ground Phillips screwdriver, but it does 
not work on square-drive (Robertson) screws nor open paint cans. The OP is 
asking that it be modified so that it does; the developers and other users 
are discussing why this is not a good idea.


BTW, I'm not aware of any mailing list managers that will automatically add 
a subscriber based on a single message to the list, if nothing else, there 
should always be an opt-in confirmation (prevents false additions and 
backscatter from forged messages).


later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] help setting up mailman

[Carl Zwanzig]

Hello,

On 9/18/2018 5:47 AM, Matthew Draft wrote:

I'm new to mailman and could use some advise as far as setting up a new
listserv.  Do I need to rent server space to hold the list data?


It depends You can hire a setup from some ISPs which are ready to go, 
otherwise, you need a system to run mailman; that could be a VM, 
amazon-hosted instance, or a standalone machine. Have you looked at the 
mailman FAQ? (link in the message footer)


Also, 'listserv' is a name/trademark for a different mailing list manager (MLM).

Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to determine which lists are defunct?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/12/2018 5:43 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

Or you could see  for a
withlist script that can display the last post time for all lists.


Of course Mark has a script to do this :).

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to determine which lists are defunct?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/12/2018 3:08 PM, Steven Jones wrote:

Is there a way to determine which lists are defunct?


Depends on how you define "defunct". No members subscribed? All members set 
"no-mail"? No messages in the last year? (You'd need the archive to look at 
that.) If the lists are archived, the last is probably the most useful and 
could probably be checked with a well-crafted "find" command.


Later,

z!

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Upgradeability of 2.1.* releases?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 6/6/2018 7:54 AM, Matěj Cepl wrote:

Where could I find how smooth is the upgrade between different
2.1.* releases? Are there any tools for the conversion of the
configuration, if it is not completely automagical?


Generally, if you're upgrading via source (instead of some distro's 
package), going from 2.1.x to current is automagic.  Most of the problems 
seem to be with packages, which may have been customized for different file 
locations.


See- 
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.80%20How%20do%20I%20upgrade%20from%20Mailman%202.1.x%20to%20a%20later%20Mailman%202.1.y%3F


If you're back at 2.1.15, I'd definitely update.

Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Carl Zwanzig]

I'm sure Mark has more complete answers, but diving in anyways :)

On 5/30/2018 2:36 PM, Parker, Michael D. wrote:

I've been assigned the task of attempting to secure our current implementation 
of GNU MailMan.

You're probably better off changing to MM3, but if you have to stay with v2--


What did you do?
Needs a better definition of "secure" and an understanding of the intended 
goals- protect the archive? spam prevention? keep users from (un)subscribing 
lists? Are these goals part of the _mailing_list_manager_ or another part of 
the system (web server, email MTA & spam filtering, file sharing, etc)?




Some of the initial items that have been directed my way:
1.   Can archiving be totally and permanently be eliminated?
More than turning it off on a per-list basis? (This doesn't "secure" 
mailman, it only makes archives unusable. You'd be better off to hide them 
behind a web page requiring web-server authentication.) Won't stop users 
from keeping their own archives, of course. (Or change the code to disable 
them.)




2.   How and where are the passwords stored?
IIRC users' list passwords are stored in the list config 'pickle' in the 
lists/ directory; see the comments in "Mailman/SecurityManager.py".




3.   Can user passwords be eliminated and have the list administrator make 
any user adjustments which should not be necessary?

At a great loss of utility, sure. This would require a code change.



4.   Does the website have to run in http: since passwords are entered at 
points in the interactions?

No, the FAQ describes to to enable HTTPS.


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Brute force attacks on mailman web ui

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 4/17/2018 7:20 AM, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

I stood up a new server last fall with *no* valid ssh access and logged
about 750,000 attempts in a month.   Similar patterns.


There's a reason I don't put sshd on port 22; moving it elsewhere and 
blackhole-ing 22 cut the auth log tremendously.


(Nothing to do with mailman, though.)

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Newbie User

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/27/2018 9:52 AM, Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:

Hello David Elliott. On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 10:51:40 +0200, you wrote:


One of the recipients recently did a 'reply to all' and consequently
sent his reply to the whole mailing list. I'm sure there must be a way
to prevent this but I can't find it!

Set all members to "moderated", with the exception or those who may post to the 
list.


Seems a bit harsh. Question is how you want the list to behave- to 
facilitate discussion or simply to make announcements. If the latter is 
preferred, then yes, setting all members to moderated will prevent them from 
posting.


OTOH, if the list's purpose is discussion, moderating all members becomes a 
bottleneck. In that case, user training is often the best route; explaining 
when it's appropriate to send to the list and when it's not. And there will 
-always- be errors.  (Scholars differ on whether the default action should 
be reply-to-list or reply-to-sender and there's nothing to be gained by 
trying to resolve that here.)


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Approving often fails and displays wrong page

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/10/2018 11:58 PM, Peter Shute wrote:

We’ve found recently that more often than not when we approve a message
from its details view, after we click Submit, it goes to another page
that’s not part of mailman. It goes to the root of our cpanel, ie same
url minus the/mailman/... part, but displays the correct url in the
address bar. We can reliably approve messages from the summary page.


Sounds sort of like a rogue load balancer, caching system, or some kind of 
URL rewrite filter in the way.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Accept vs Approve wording on moderator pages

[Carl Zwanzig]

(This based on my understanding of modern English usage in the USA. YMMV)

On 3/2/2018 11:03 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

but that leaves an inconsistency on the summary page itself with (un)subs
being "Approved" and messages being "Accepted".
That's not necessarily inconsistent. A subscription would be approved, with 
"approval" connoting a more active action than accept.


OTOH accept/reject for a message makes sense since the moderator is allowing 
the message ("accepting") for distribution, but that doesn't mean the 
moderator agrees with it's contents, only that it meets whatever guidelines 
the moderator is using.


approve 1. officially agree to or accept as satisfactory.
accept 1. consent to receive (a thing offered).

Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman would not start after upgrade to 2.1.26

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/13/2018 12:29 PM, Keith Seyffarth wrote:

If you're installing from ports, whether building from within the ports
tree or using a port management tool like portupgrade or portmaster, you
are installing from source.


...installing using the source code of whatever version the port is 
configured for and with whatever patches the port maintainer decided to 
include. This as opposed to installing the version -you- want with the 
options that -you- want to use. For some software, the port (and pkg) can 
lag significantly behind the current released version (as it happens, the 
current pkg is .25 and the current port is .26 from about 4 days ago but 
there were some updates to that from less that 24 hours ago).


I'll stick with my preference of installing mailman from it's original code 
tarball and not from a port; it's served me well for years.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman would not start after upgrade to 2.1.26

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/13/2018 10:25 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

This would seem to be an issue with FreeBSD ports. You should report
this to whoever is responsible for that


FWIW, while I like FreeBSD's ports & packages, I've found that installing 
mailman from the source generally is more reliable and updating is easier. YMMV.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Users set to digest, but still getting non-digest?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 1/29/2018 8:33 AM, Andrew White, PhD wrote:

Searched the archives, but I'm hitting a wall. I have users who are set to
digest (when I look at their profile I can see that they are), but still
are getting individual list emails, and not getting digest at all. Any
hints on places to look to problem solve this


A common problem is two list entries for one mailbox (i.e. f...@domain.com 
and f...@dept.domain.com or sally.fulln...@domain.com and sa...@domain.com). 
Is there only one list membership for this user? (Could be that you're 
setting one but the another is what they receive.)


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Photos from Macs getting removed by list server

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 1/21/2018 12:13 AM, Peter Shute wrote:

We’re finding that messages sent to our list by Mac users are having jpg 
attachments removed. I assume this is something to do with the list being plain 
text only...


If the list is plain-text only, I'd be more curious how images were making 
their way through, not the reverse.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Removing archived spam

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 11/13/2017 4:03 PM, eminmn wrote:
Anyway, I think there are a few million people around the world who are 
aware of his contribution to freedom of computation


And his anti-contributions?

Anyway, since this is rather far removed from mailman v2, can we give it a rest.

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] 2.1 installation instructions

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 10/3/2017 4:41 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:

I am porting my mailman config to a new system using openrc and, if it
is possible, I would like to be pointed to installation and
configuration instructions for mailman 2.1.24 and postfix


A good place to start is the ./doc/ directory of mailman source 
distribution. There is also a fair bit of relevant material in the mailman 
wiki, which is linked in the footer of this list's messages.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] bulk subscribe 7K users

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 10/2/2017 12:37 PM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:

Could you point me at The Fine Manual for mailman where it
says how many addresses I can subscribe through the web interface?


I can't (and as Mark mentioned, it's installation-dependent), but it would 
be helpful to others if you would add something to the wiki with your 
experiences and relevant config.


z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] bulk subscribe 7K users

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 10/2/2017 7:58 AM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
PS there is nothing except postfix, spamd, mailman, and apache serving 
mailman's interface running on this server. It' running at load avg of 0.0 
on 24 cores in 128GB of RAM. AFAICT the only reason for the software to 
croak on the list that size is its own coding.


While mailman routinely handles much larger lists (1), you seem to be very 
concerned about the size of a HTTP-based bulk add operation when there are 
other methods of adding that many recipients. Perhaps mailman does have a 
bug in the area, but there are many other potential factors that could slow 
things down or stop them completely (2).


It also sounds like there are other issues with the system, like postfix 
delivery times and the length of the CGI timeout.


If you're receiving "please stop" messages from users, maybe those users 
don't want to be on this list at all.


This all seems like making a mountain out of a molehill. If you've been 
satisfied with mailman, why not continue to be satisfied in all other areas 
and just not to large bulk adds via http? (My car is a great car but won't 
carry 500kg of cargo, so I don't ask it to.)


Later,

z!

(1) 
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/What%20is%20the%20largest%20list%20Mailman%20can%20run%3F)


(2) is the mailman installed on local disk or an NFS share? what the locking 
scheme? timeouts? etc

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] bulk subscribe 7K users

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 9/29/2017 11:34 AM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:

(mailman 2.1.12 on centos 6.9)


I don't think that Mark mentioned it, but 2.1.12 is -painfully- old (as is 
centos 6.9) and centos packages often lag way behind the corresponding 
source versions.


If you need to stick with 6.9, I would consider ditching the centos package 
and installing the current mailman from source. Otherwise, can you move to a 
more modern Linux and more recent mailman?


Later,

z!
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Mailman-Users] Second Name

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/23/2017 5:09 PM, David Andrews wrote:
One of my users has requested a list -- let's call it li...@example.org.  He 
wants a second name for this list -- li...@example.org  He says he heard 
Mailman can do this.  I have experimented a little, but can't see how.


You can sort of get that by creating list2 as an umbrella list that only 
contains list1, but they're still different lists, and that's not the same 
as two names for one list. (I can't see how to do that either.)


Later,

z!

--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org