[Marxism] currencies and IT
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The SWIFT exchange was in the news when Iran's access to it was threatened, and was mentioned in passing today in a Times article now that sanctions will be loosened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Worldwide_Interbank_Financial_Telecommunication _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: What Next in the Greek Crisis? | New Politics
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Useful article by Barry Finger. http://newpol.org/content/what-next-greek-crisis _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] after 1/4 of Syriza MPs reject new austerity deal, what next for Syriza gov't, Syriza left?
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * 38 Syriza MPs reject the agreement by Stathis Kouvelakis International Viewpoint, July 16 http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article4129 38 Syriza MPs reject the agreement. Overall result: 229 yes, 64 no, 6 abstain/present, one absence. Today is a tragic day for Greece and for its Left. More than two thirds of Syriza MPs voted jointly with the pro-austerity parties (New Democracy, Pasok, Potami) and the junior coalition partner Anel the prerequisite bill for the toughest by far austerity package ever accepted by any kind of left (including social-democracy) government in Europe, the only possible comparison being the 1st Memorandum passed by Pasok in 2010. But it’s even more serious in a way than draconian austerity in a country already devastated by five years of ’shock therapy’: it’s the total destruction of democracy, of popular sovereignty, the perpetuation and aggravation of the sharpest form of subjection. But 38 Syriza MPs (out of a total of 149) saved the honour: 32 voted no, six voted present (there was also one absence) It appears that all Left Platform MPs, + KOE (maoists) + Zoe Kostantopoulou + former ministers Varoufakis and Nandia Valavani and a couple of others voted No while six MPs of the 53 current (left wing of the former majority bloc) voted present. In any case, the government has lost control of its own majority: of the 162 MPs of the Syriza-ANel coalition, only 123 supported it, far less than the required by constitutional practice parliamentary majority of 151 MPs coming from the ranks of the government. In principle Tsipras should resign, he blackmailed this afternoon the Syriza MPs saying that if he hadn’t the support of all them he would do so. But of course he won’t, he was just trying to manipulate his troops. However it seems clear that it is only a matter of time for this new de facto pro-austerity majority to translate in a proper political coalition of some sort. The 38 [Syriza MP’s who voted NO or abstained ] saved the day . So there remains the possibility of a future. The left to be transformed through the struggles of workers and the people. Defiance against the parliament's surrender by Lee Sustar Socialist Worker, U.S., July 16 http://socialistworker.org/2015/07/16/defiance-against-parliaments-surrender Greece's parliament listens to a speech by Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras AMID A public-sector workers' general strike and large demonstrations in Athens and other cities, Greece's parliament voted to accept the European authorities' demands for drastic new austerity measures, with members of traditional parties helping Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras to survive a rebellion of left-wing representatives from the radical left party SYRIZA. The final vote in the Greek parliament was 229 to 64, with six abstentions, on measures that will cut pensions, raise the regressive value-added sales tax, put Greek assets in hock and repeal progressive measures that the SYRIZA government passed since winning election on January 25. The vote has accelerated an internal struggle within SYRIZA--a party rooted in the social movements and working class struggles of the past 15 years, and especially the recent crisis years. A total of 32 SYRIZA members of parliament voted no and six abstained to show their opposition to what they call a third Memorandum--the term used for the agreement to impose harsh austerity in return for a bailout of the Greek financial system by European and international financial institutions. Among the prominent no votes in the early morning hours of Thursday, July 16, was Energy Minister Panagiotis Lafazanis, the leading voice of SYRIZA's Left Platform; Speaker of Parliament Zoe Konstantopoulou; and even former Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis, who himself offered huge concessions to the European authorities when he was in office. The 13 members of ANEL, the right-wing party that is part of the governing coalition with SYRIZA, voted yes. But Tsipras needed the support from the two main parties of the Greek political system for the past half century, the conservative New Democracy and the center-left PASOK. The prime minister railed against New Democracy and PASOK in the run-up to the January 25 election for having negotiated the previous austerity Memorandums. Now, he needed their support to pass his own Memorandum. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - THE PARLIAMENT'S surrender came just 10 days after a referendum in which 61.3 percent of voters rejected a proposal that was basically the same as the deal that Tsipras is now trying to sell. Tsipras had called for a no vote--but only, he insisted, as a way to strengthen Greece's
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * sorry, I hit Send accidentally; here's the finished paragraph from the middle of my post: The answer is simple: IT is not used to rationalize, simplify, and make more efficient the economy. It's designed to sell more goods, both consumer and IT business systems. (It IS used to speed up the supply chain, but that affects only distribution, not production; which however, as I explained re Walmart, is nothing to sneeze at re potential future rationalization and therefore minimization of needed computer code in the economy-wide sphere of distribution.) On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Andrew Pollack acpolla...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the upcoming battles are key, and it's no mystery where they will come. For instance see quote from linked article below. But Louis's logic STILL argues against a revolution anywhere, anytime. As the country with the most, and most complex, IT systems, a socialist revolution in the US would by his logic be forever impossible. This brings us to the productivity paradox, i.e. the decades-old conundrum of why computerization hasn't transformed the economy the way railroads and then auto did. The answer is simple: IT is not used to rationalize, simplify, and make more efficient the economy. It's designed to sell more goods, both consumer and IT business systems. (It That's why, for instance, nurse unions point out that successively more complex healthcare IT systems - which DO capture more and more patient data - DON'T mean higher quality or safety in healthcare (whereas higher nurse staffing WOULD). Yet hospitals (including my own) are always competing with each other to get the newest, biggest systems - and when the conversion is made it requires countless (wasted) person-hours. One could read on a banner deployed before the Parliament: “No to privatizations, let us save the ports, DEI (national electricity company), the hospitals”. http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article4130 On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/16/15 8:20 AM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote: Is the suggestion here that all of the peoples in the eurozone are trapped in it because the technical problems of converting to a sovereign currency are intractable, or is there something special about the technological structure of Greek capitalism? Absolutely not. But all this talk about Tsipras should have come up with a plan B while he was in these intense negotiations with the eurozone bigs is nuts. As I have repeatedly tried to explain, converting to a new currency requires a full project life-cycle implementation just as it did moving from a drachma to the euro. I have been involved with 5 such massive projects during my career so I can guarantee you that it would take Greece or any other euro-based nations a full 3 years to effect a change. As Doug pointed out, such a declared intention would have consequences of capital drain. In any case, the challenge is more political than technical at this point. We have a left developing in Greece today out of the disaffected Syriza members, Antarsya and the KKE (not that these people are capable of working in a united front). As I urged a FB friend yesterday, the focus should be on what's next and not on what just happened. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] SYRIZA betrays the NO vote
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Dear comrades Attached as a file and underneath as text is an article on the Greek situation after SYRIZA's unconditional capitulation to the EU. Stavros Mavroudeas Stavros D. Mavroudeas Professor (Political Economy) Dept. of Economics University of Macedonia 156 Egnatia 54006 Thessaloniki Greece e-mail: sma...@uom.gr; sma...@uom.edu.gr web: http://stavrosmavroudeas.wordpress.com http://stavrosmavroudeas.wordpress.com/ www.facebook.com/stavros.mavroudeas off. Tel: +30-2310-891779 Recent books: The Limits of Regulation http://www.elgaronline.com/abstract/9780857938633.xml http://www.elgaronline.com/abstract/9780857938633.xml Greek Capitalism in Crisis http://www.routledge.com/books/details/9780415744928/ SYRIZA betrays the resounding NO vote of the Greek people and signs a 3rd troika austerity program The Left should create a popular front against the EU In the 5th of July 2015 the huge majority of the Greek people (61%) rejected the insolent demands of the EU for the extension and deepening of the austerity and pro-capital restructuring policies in Greece. These demands were codified in the so-called Juncker Plan for Greece that set barbaric terms for the extension of the previous austerity program (the 2nd Economic Adjustment Program for Greece) in exchange for releasing much delayed tranches of the troika loans to Greece. These tranches were urgently needed for repaying instalments of previous loans by the troika. As I have argued in a previous note ( https://stavrosmavroudeas.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/the-greek-referendum-and -the-tasks-of-the-left/ 'The Greek referendum and the tasks of the Left') SYRIZA was led unwillingly to call this referendum because of the failure of its unrealistic program for a 'decent compromise' with the EU and for 'staying in the Eurozone at any cost'. Moreover, the whole affair proved beyond any doubt that EU is a capitalist and imperialist integration that cannot be reformed towards serving peoples' needs. The referendum's victory with such huge margin was unexpected even for the NO supporters. In the short one-week campaign the Greek economic and political elites unleashed a blatant terror and misinformation campaign through their mass media purporting that a NO vote would destroy Greece and that EU's terms should be unconditionally accepted. In this unconcealed blackmail the Greek politico-economic elite was directed and abetted by the EU with direct interventions by J.C.Juncker, the German government and the rest of EU's high priesthood. Moreover, the EU proceeded to literally slowly strangle the Greek economy by curtailing, through the ECB, the injection of liquidity to the moribund - because of the troika policies - Greek banking sector. This led the SYRIZA government - on top of foolishly (?) emptying the state coffers for paying previous troika installments - to impose capital controls the very day that pensions were going to be paid. This alienated significant portions of the middle and lower strata and turned the previously almost sure NO victory to a gamble. On top of that, SYRIZA for almost half the campaign week dragged its feet; flirting with canceling the referendum, revoking its support for NO and with several of its prominent members and ministers covertly helping the YES coalition. Only the last two days SYRIZA actually threw its support behind the NO campaign. Last but not the least, the Communist Party also facilitated the elite's assault by campaigning for a null vote or abstention; a move that cost it dearly in its electoral support. Only the independent and extra-parliamentary Left and grass-roots initiatives and movements fought from the very beginning for NO. Despite all these adversities, the NO ended winning by a landslide. It was a silent landslide because in the mass media and the public debate there was a suppressing dominance of the YES instigated by the Greek politico-economic elite and by the incompetent acts of SYRIZA (particularly the banking 'holiday', the capital controls and the problems in paying pensions and wages). It was also a class landslide in that the working people, the peasants, the lower middle strata and overwhelmingly the unemployed youth voted for No whereas the bourgeoisie and the upper middle strata voted for YES (see http://www.publicissue.gr/en/2837/greek-referendum-2015-no-voter-demographi cs/ http://www.publicissue.gr/en/2837/greek-referendum-2015-no-voter-demographic s/). It is now evident that SYRIZA's leadership and systemic centers did not welcome this landslide. They expected the win of NO or YES to be by a small margin that would
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Yes, the upcoming battles are key, and it's no mystery where they will come. For instance see quote from linked article below. But Louis's logic STILL argues against a revolution anywhere, anytime. As the country with the most, and most complex, IT systems, a socialist revolution in the US would by his logic be forever impossible. This brings us to the productivity paradox, i.e. the decades-old conundrum of why computerization hasn't transformed the economy the way railroads and then auto did. The answer is simple: IT is not used to rationalize, simplify, and make more efficient the economy. It's designed to sell more goods, both consumer and IT business systems. (It That's why, for instance, nurse unions point out that successively more complex healthcare IT systems - which DO capture more and more patient data - DON'T mean higher quality or safety in healthcare (whereas higher nurse staffing WOULD). Yet hospitals (including my own) are always competing with each other to get the newest, biggest systems - and when the conversion is made it requires countless (wasted) person-hours. One could read on a banner deployed before the Parliament: “No to privatizations, let us save the ports, DEI (national electricity company), the hospitals”. http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article4130 On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/16/15 8:20 AM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote: Is the suggestion here that all of the peoples in the eurozone are trapped in it because the technical problems of converting to a sovereign currency are intractable, or is there something special about the technological structure of Greek capitalism? Absolutely not. But all this talk about Tsipras should have come up with a plan B while he was in these intense negotiations with the eurozone bigs is nuts. As I have repeatedly tried to explain, converting to a new currency requires a full project life-cycle implementation just as it did moving from a drachma to the euro. I have been involved with 5 such massive projects during my career so I can guarantee you that it would take Greece or any other euro-based nations a full 3 years to effect a change. As Doug pointed out, such a declared intention would have consequences of capital drain. In any case, the challenge is more political than technical at this point. We have a left developing in Greece today out of the disaffected Syriza members, Antarsya and the KKE (not that these people are capable of working in a united front). As I urged a FB friend yesterday, the focus should be on what's next and not on what just happened. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/16/15 9:24 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote: But Louis's logic STILL argues against a revolution anywhere, anytime. As the country with the most, and most complex, IT systems, a socialist revolution in the US would by his logic be forever impossible. Not really. That being said, Andrew's tendency to superimpose his hopes for socialism on Greece is a mistake. Syriza got elected because it reflected the mood of the voters and even now there is little evidence of a revolutionary situation. Demanding that pensions not be cut is not the same thing as what Lenin wrote about in State and Revolution. Keep in mind that dual power often constitutes the basis for a revolutionary transformation such as workers taking over factories in Catalonia in 1938. I understand that Marxists would like to think that something like that is happening in Greece but I prefer to base my hopes on reality rather than fantasy. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/16/15 8:20 AM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote: Is the suggestion here that all of the peoples in the eurozone are trapped in it because the technical problems of converting to a sovereign currency are intractable, or is there something special about the technological structure of Greek capitalism? Absolutely not. But all this talk about Tsipras should have come up with a plan B while he was in these intense negotiations with the eurozone bigs is nuts. As I have repeatedly tried to explain, converting to a new currency requires a full project life-cycle implementation just as it did moving from a drachma to the euro. I have been involved with 5 such massive projects during my career so I can guarantee you that it would take Greece or any other euro-based nations a full 3 years to effect a change. As Doug pointed out, such a declared intention would have consequences of capital drain. In any case, the challenge is more political than technical at this point. We have a left developing in Greece today out of the disaffected Syriza members, Antarsya and the KKE (not that these people are capable of working in a united front). As I urged a FB friend yesterday, the focus should be on what's next and not on what just happened. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] US/ 'The key is the organization of the supply-chains for fast food and the new retail stores'
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Full interview: http://www.leftvoice.org/The-key-is-the-organization-of-the-supply-chains-for-fast-food-and-the-new-retail-stores The notion of the “precariat” as a social category with interests different from the rest of the working class is both empirically and theoretically problematic. First, it greatly exaggerates the degree to which a growing number of workers are in insecure and temporary jobs, often part-time and sometimes for employment agencies and other ‘non-traditional’ employers. Contrary to what many believe, about 90% of all employed people in the US work in traditional employer-employee arrangements, with 83% of those in full-time work. US Bureau of Labour Statistics surveys done in 1995 and 2005 both showed that those working in ‘alternative arrangements’, such as independent contractors or temporary agency workers, consistently compose about 10% of the workforce. While the number of those working through ‘employment services’ soared from 1,512,000 in 1990 to 3,849,000 in 2000, by 2010 their number had fallen to 2,717,000, a drop of 1,132,000. Even if those in non-traditional jobs increase significantly as employers seek to expand production without taking on permanent hires, they are certain to remain a distinct minority. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 07/16/2015 09:24 AM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote: the decades-old conundrum of why computerization hasn't transformed the economy the way railroads and then auto did. I can't claim authority for the whole US economy, but in the railroad industry where I worked, computers most definitely increased productivity by eliminating thousands of mainly clerical jobs. Now not just clerical, but with crews and mechanical forces, with sensors and gps maxed out on the power.(locomotives) Certainly likely true with the rest of transportation and distribution, trucks, Walmart, Amazon etc. Bricks and mortar are on life support. Jon Flanders _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Jul 16, 2015, at 8:41 AM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote: On 7/16/15 8:20 AM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote: Is the suggestion here that all of the peoples in the eurozone are trapped in it because the technical problems of converting to a sovereign currency are intractable, or is there something special about the technological structure of Greek capitalism? Absolutely not. But all this talk about Tsipras should have come up with a plan B while he was in these intense negotiations with the eurozone bigs is nuts. As I have repeatedly tried to explain, converting to a new currency requires a full project life-cycle implementation just as it did moving from a drachma to the euro. I have been involved with 5 such massive projects during my career so I can guarantee you that it would take Greece or any other euro-based nations a full 3 years to effect a change. As Doug pointed out, such a declared intention would have consequences of capital drain. In any case, the challenge is more political than technical at this point. Well, yes. As, I noted two days ago on this thread: “The problem, Louis, as is so often the case, is less “technical” than it is political.” No one disputes that conversion from a stronger currency to a weaker one is economically wrenching, and inevitably results in capital flight. It has to be carefully managed by the state. Which is why it is preeminently a political rather than a technical issue. Your position has hitherto been that conversion to a new currency is so impossibly daunting that it should be ruled out, no matter how wretched the status quo - certainly in the case of Greece. You neglect to answer whether and why this rule would also be applicable to larger and more complex economies. But your fears about a Grexit being worse than the status quo seem greatly exaggerated, especially if an orderly Grexit can be arranged, which is in where the interests of the Greek people and the NATO powers converge for different reasons. That option has been on the table since Syriza took power, but its leadership, like yourself, has feared it as too radical a step and consequently did nothing to prepare the people and the state administration for that possibility. In fact, it actively discouraged speculation about a Grexit for fear of further antagonizing the troika. As for capital flight, it can take wings anytime where there is a perception that assets may be threatened by a left wing leadership susceptible to pressures from its restless base. Don’t take power if you don’t want to frighten away foreign and domestic capital. It is no more complicated than that. We know that even though the Syriza government bent over backwards to assure its creditors and depositors of its unshakeable commitment to the euro, euros continued to drain out of the country. In these circumstances, the Tsipras leadership was confronted with the stark choice of imposing more stringent capital controls, nationalizing the insolvent Greek banks, issuing a parallel currency, repudiating the debt, and inviting the US and Europe to negotiate in their own economic and geopolitical interests on that basis, or…abjectly accepting further cuts to the labour and pension rights of its followers, a further squeeze on their incomes, and the de-nationalization of important public assets. You’d have a difficult time persuading me it made the right choice because the difficulties of a “full project life cycle implementation” somehow trumped all these other considerations. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Proyect wrote: We have a left developing in Greece today out of the disaffected Syriza members, Antarsya and the KKE (not that these people are capable of working in a united front). As I urged a FB friend yesterday, the focus should be on what's next and not on what just happened. ** I'm glad that you finally seem to realize that the future of the Greek left lies in a recomposition of forces, and not with Syriza as a party. But is politically impossible to forget about the betrayal that has just taken place and simply move on. The Tsipras faction of Syriza (which is probably still a majority) is hardly about to roll over and play dead. They will argue that they have not betrayed and that therefore no recomposition of the left is necessary. The KKE leadership will continue to defend its sectarian-abstentionist policies. And many more on the left will be bewildered and confused by what has taken place, not knowing what the future holds or where to turn. Recomposition demands political clarification, which in turn demands a struggle of ideas and political tendencies. I know that branding people betrayers, and the whole notion of a right-left struggle within the left is your idea of a Spartacist nightmare, and is anathema to every bone in your anti-sectarian body. But it is unavoidable at this juncture. Lenin didn't skip over the struggle against Kautsky, and move effortlessly on to the founding of the Third International, letting bygones be bygones. He would not have accepted the excuse that voting for war credits in the Reichstag simply reflected the wishes of the German people (which it did at the time, btw, to a much greater extent than voting for austerity now reflects the wishes of the majority of the Greek people). I know we aren't in the same situation here, and that the issue is a Grexit, not war and revolution, so please do not invoke that straw man. But an event of great consequence is now transpiring, and the left, in Greece or Europe, can't move forward without digesting its implications. Jim Creegan On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/16/15 8:20 AM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote: Is the suggestion here that all of the peoples in the eurozone are trapped in it because the technical problems of converting to a sovereign currency are intractable, or is there something special about the technological structure of Greek capitalism? Absolutely not. But all this talk about Tsipras should have come up with a plan B while he was in these intense negotiations with the eurozone bigs is nuts. As I have repeatedly tried to explain, converting to a new currency requires a full project life-cycle implementation just as it did moving from a drachma to the euro. I have been involved with 5 such massive projects during my career so I can guarantee you that it would take Greece or any other euro-based nations a full 3 years to effect a change. As Doug pointed out, such a declared intention would have consequences of capital drain. In any case, the challenge is more political than technical at this point. We have a left developing in Greece today out of the disaffected Syriza members, Antarsya and the KKE (not that these people are capable of working in a united front). As I urged a FB friend yesterday, the focus should be on what's next and not on what just happened. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/sectarian61%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Greece and the Left, the fight against Austerity continues through the EU, not for a ‘new Britain’.
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Greece and the Left, the fight against Austerity continues through the EU, not for a ‘new Britain’Extract. Can I say by the way how useful and important I - and I'm sure many others - have found the Marxism List posts/links/discussions on Greece over the last weeks... The Greek crisis has been a perceived as proof that the ‘pro-European’ left has failed, largely by those who were already convinced that this is so. Briefly basking in Syriza’s reflected glory they have now returned to their own political projects. In France, apart from the anti-Euro and ‘Sovereigntist’ Front National, a minority of the Parti de Gauche (45%) voted at their recent conference for this as part of a general “Eurosceptic” line (Libération). Their leader, Jean–Luc Mélenchon, has made frequent nationalist and anti-German remarks during the Greek crisis. He said a few days ago, “Pour la troisième fois dans l’histoire de l’Europe, l’obstination d’un gouvernement allemand est en train de détruire l’Europe” For the third time in the History of Europe, the obstination of the German government is destroying Europe. There is little doubt the same mood exists across Europe. In Britain some see the Greek crisis as a sign to join in the campaign for the UK to leave the European Union. This, Owen Jones dreams, (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/14/left-reject-eu-greece-eurosceptic) would ” focus on building a new Britain, one of workers’ rights, a genuine living wage, public ownership, industrial activism and tax justice. Such a populist campaign could help the left reconnect with working-class communities it lost touch with long ago.” Unfortunately this option will appear on no Referendum Ballot paper, when, one assumes the believers in a New Britain will mark their slips in the same way as the ‘populists’ of the far-right, and hard-line anti-socialist economic liberals. https://tendancecoatesy.wordpress.com/2015/07/16/greece-and-the-left-the-fight-against-austerity-continues-through-the-eu-not-for-a-new-britain/ Andrew Coates _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Mark Lause wrote: Jim urges us to act appropriately *to* this juncture, as though we were historical materialists. But the next lines urge us to follow the example of Lenin's struggle against Kautsky and voting against war credits in the Reichstag. For historical materialists, these are different junctures altogether, no? ** I acknowledge the differences in the respective junctures in the sentence following the text of mine that you select. I might also add to the differences that, unlike the German Social Democracy, Syriza is not, and never claimed to be, a working-class socialist party, and never proclaimed its intention to answer the class enemy with a general strike, as the SPD had pledged to do in the event of war. But the juncture is not *altogether *different. Tsipras it has betrayed every election pledge his party ever made at the cost of untold damage and agony to his people, and is, like New Democracy and Pasok, employing TINA arguments to justify his actions. Any socialist (or even committed Keynesian) must categorically repudiate all TINA arguments A betrayal is a betrayal, in 2015 as it was in 1914, and there must be a political sorting out and assigning of blame before any political realignment can take place. Jim Reply to all Forward On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 11:56 AM, Mark Lause markala...@gmail.com wrote: Jim Creegan writes, I know that branding people betrayers, and the whole notion of a right-left struggle within the left is your idea of a Spartacist nightmare, and is anathema to every bone in your 'anti-sectarian' body. But it is unavoidable at this juncture. Lenin didn't skip over the struggle against Kautsky, and move effortlessly on to the founding of the Third International, letting bygones be bygones. He would not have accepted the excuse that voting for war credits in the Reichstag simply reflected the wishes of the German people (which it did at the time, btw, to a much greater extent than voting for austerity now reflects the wishes of the majority of the Greek people). Jim urges us to act appropriately to this juncture, as though we were historical materialists. But the next lines urge us to follow the example of Lenin's struggle against Kautsky and voting against war credits in the Reichstag. For historical materialists, these are different junctures altogether, no? ML _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] AP Exclusive: Palestinians quit medical study in Venezuela
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * There are a great number of scholarship programs available to the students in the upper classes in Palestine, why should they take one that is not academically rigorous? Shame. - Amith On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Joseph Catron via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * This is unfortunate news. Does anyone have insights on Venezuelan medical education? I do not know many Palestinians who would walk away from international scholarships easily. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/d2e8b4b0f1f5407ba66959875cc82b55/ap-exclusive-palestinians-quit-medical-study-venezuela -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] AP Exclusive: Palestinians quit medical study in Venezuela
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * But the demand far exceeds the supply, and admission to all of them is extremely competitive, which is why this story strikes me and some others as so incredible. For a program to trigger this kind of mass exodus, it would seemingly have to be really, really awful. (Educational attainment there, and the resulting opportunities abroad, probably have less to do with class than here, although that's certainly a factor everywhere.) On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 7:58 AM, A.R. G amithrgu...@gmail.com wrote: There are a great number of scholarship programs available to the students in the upper classes in Palestine, why should they take one that is not academically rigorous? Shame. -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Day of strikes and demonstrations in Greece, clashes with police in Syntagma Square
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Full article: http://www.leftvoice.org/Day-of-strikes-and-demonstrations-in-Greece-clashes-with-police-in-Syntagma-Square This is the first general strike carried out during the Syriza government, which is now facing numerous contradictions in order to justify this defeat as the lesser of two evils. In fact, it is a truly colonialist pactwhich includes pension reforms, and increase in taxes and social security contributions, and a privatizations program which will include numerous state assets, most notably among them, the Port of Pireo. The Greek people gave a resounding NO (OXI) to the agreement proposed by the Troika on July 5, but they also voted NO to austerity, to misery, and to blackmail by the international financial institutions. However, Syriza has only moderated its program since then in order to reach a deal with the Troika, a strategy that has ended in absolute failure and profound humiliation. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Syntagma Sq., July 15, 2015. And now?
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Here are some videos from yesterday in Syntagma Square, sent to me by a friend in the Red Network. Aside from the difficulties that we all recognise, this statement from the Red Network (cited in Lee Sustar's piece included in a recent Marxmail post) cannot be dismissed by all who pinned their hearts and hopes to Syriza: The Red Network, an alliance of socialist organizations that is a main part of the Left Platform, declared in the text of a leaflet distributed during the strikes and protests on Wednesday: This new Memorandum essentially and practically overthrows the government led by SYRIZA: programmatically, but also politically, since it transforms SYRIZA into an austerity government with an increasingly pro-austerity composition (more so after the removal of left-wing cabinet ministers and the potential openings to the austerity camp). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpsOVKJPuVQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMwzD4S4Zog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGziZ5rQ1cM michael _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Jim Creegan writes, I know that branding people betrayers, and the whole notion of a right-left struggle within the left is your idea of a Spartacist nightmare, and is anathema to every bone in your 'anti-sectarian' body. But it is unavoidable at this juncture. Lenin didn't skip over the struggle against Kautsky, and move effortlessly on to the founding of the Third International, letting bygones be bygones. He would not have accepted the excuse that voting for war credits in the Reichstag simply reflected the wishes of the German people (which it did at the time, btw, to a much greater extent than voting for austerity now reflects the wishes of the majority of the Greek people). Jim urges us to act appropriately to this juncture, as though we were historical materialists. But the next lines urge us to follow the example of Lenin's struggle against Kautsky and voting against war credits in the Reichstag. For historical materialists, these are different junctures altogether, no? ML _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: opportunity for US-Greece solidarity: Fw: AFL-CIO Endorses July 30 Med icare Actions
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Greek pensioners are getting hit at least 3 ways from Sunday: 1) the healthcare sector is in shambles; 2) their pensions are being cut back; and 3) the VAT tax is decimating their budgets. The 50th anniversary celebration/protests for Medicare in the US are an opportunity for us to make the connections. Lord knows our seniors are in dire straits themselves on the same fronts. Free, socialized healthcare under worker/community control, from the US to Greece! 55 and out retirement at union-scale wages, from America to Athens! (ps concrete solidarity is already under way from nurse unions here, more on that soon. -- Forwarded message -- From: Andrew Pollack acpolla...@juno.com Date: Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 3:16 PM Subject: opportunity for US-Greece solidarity: Fw: AFL-CIO Endorses July 30 Med icare Actions To: acpolla...@gmail.com -- Forwarded Message -- From: Mark Dudzic Labor Campaign for Single Payer organiz...@laborforsinglepayer.org To: acpolla...@juno.com Subject: AFL-CIO Endorses July 30 Medicare Actions Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:04:34 + Dear a, We are two weeks away from the *July 30 Celebration of Medicare's 50th Birthday.* Activists will gather in 42 cities in 21 states http://mailings.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3AA/ni0YAA/t.1or/ZUBOfKizST-bjq6TWR4y_Q/h0/e4E9U5TsreWOLomGt-2B16noyRw5QKdlsGQ3gN4rO9d42V9sn0ystbFF3mW-2FTiovRG8GXwHVjOeTWrvY04al0Im6RRxAmJqBVvVMJhwz7HKhPyhIImC1g1oIuzrEQf8UlDh0twI-2F2JYRKVOqM8iTN-2B1XWKX5bgj7AgCdKHzBPIwTeBNMbPg-2BdRbP4TZkhwPMV0Eft8k-2F9anHrOV-2BGJUmFTHVpwMMSIaEI6RsqAH4-2FWywEkDg5e-2ByAwFq4YbD3MFMPV6MpGHqFBSk-2BMM2EUU5Viq8DLdZmm1-2FTihIXFQypcKRk-3D to honor one of our most successful social insurance programs and to call on the American people to work to *Protect *it, *Improve *it and *Expand * it. In a letter to affiliates http://mailings.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3AA/ni0YAA/t.1or/ZUBOfKizST-bjq6TWR4y_Q/h1/e4E9U5TsreWOLomGt-2B16npSYjAkocA5leUGYBMdg616DBjMwNlCuD21VKaSdOrvYiWe470F-2FTlxSQhYcSXXKGqgSFTe-2BI1T-2FdKMhc-2B3Bbe-2FfchGkkFs3HiPKf-2FoBqvgZwms36QHzOEuQmQQLkZcHpOHrwbLxHyWjDJVcYan5P4E1AvTQFA9bOcymDWpCDDzIwyXeoqoXqxXYBXhYPudjO2tdaa3zV40QnwZ5QrmfJOviPYJTRHBYNRsJrRsL2J-2BTMq24lTM6Ft5QhysiL09dF0RFfQdonYds7W8bBgiCT-2BhrBYGo91z3eLlsSh2wZEjwzgWTHWlRi1s-2B-2Fbkf4K-2FdNw-3D-3D, AFL-CIO President *Richard Trumka *urged all of labor to come together to mark this momentous occasion. [A]dopting improved Medicare for All is the only solution to the increasing cost and access problems of our current healthcare system, wrote Trumka. You can help make this day a success: - Find your local celebration here http://mailings.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3AA/ni0YAA/t.1or/ZUBOfKizST-bjq6TWR4y_Q/h2/e4E9U5TsreWOLomGt-2B16noyRw5QKdlsGQ3gN4rO9d42V9sn0ystbFF3mW-2FTiovRG8GXwHVjOeTWrvY04al0Im6RRxAmJqBVvVMJhwz7HKhPyhIImC1g1oIuzrEQf8UlDh0twI-2F2JYRKVOqM8iTN-2B1XWKX5bgj7AgCdKHzBPIwTeBNMbPg-2BdRbP4TZkhwPMV0Eft8k-2F9anHrOV-2BGJUmFTHVpwMMSIaEI6RsqAH4-2FWywEkDg5e-2ByAwFq4YbD3MFMPV6MpGHqFBSk-2BMM2EUU5Viq8DLdZmm1-2FTihIXFQypcKRk-3D or join us in Washington DC for a day of rallies, briefings and lobbying beginning at 9:30 AM in Upper Senate Park. http://mailings.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3AA/ni0YAA/t.1or/ZUBOfKizST-bjq6TWR4y_Q/h3/oiDRR8WVXqfMZ7swwXuKd7xlL7r9Jds3CpHp3QRDR-2FWpoMWq32h7sh9zka9GqFhBPUkWjtjPxKLBN3muJoBMmIO4oqfimsw-2FZYFbVz-2FkAf8ic1uHMHmEHjuLsOzbBo14QAUD6OYRBnWWp-2BKkweFFLKG69888uYq4iFsF5ImtH-2FYlxIg2jBL-2F-2Fz-2F2qUW9HjkYchWgw-2FgapnOYUbiKfNOavpZvmiXEoz8mDFds-2BBmo0n9fGtFIn4uMWqcnuJXrjchWmcHLLfTHaTM5pkkvGPeV9f8oSzkloIhfSsAyHDkhv2tF1HaUeWQcOuVsTPT6Wgz2zOd796XxGQxu5rScgnSGimqYuXOHztBeKf0WA9gQmoAjfPJrYUCN-2BaRVSQZyCPj-2BDcc4-2Fnu9wWSgcDmy85R2jg-3D-3D - Ask your local union to endorse and participate in an event near you. - Contact your local Central Labor Council http://mailings.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3AA/ni0YAA/t.1or/ZUBOfKizST-bjq6TWR4y_Q/h4/GmvsifzDqUiJ01-2B2MhZwY-2F1GUPi18VYBkNTyM27Dbf5b97orHbGnWK1HncJNDAjmngvFG0pJdn2OeLLWmFO7LFL2TQnuljz15H0kZ7ccRjCDJcHUqDpb3RLnxitEZ7p630cJWG-2BCe8q3uRBahX7ikvcp7C2J-2BrsE4aEI2t6pMRW3-2FS9npqriuCdL-2BvPjYg-2BNP7xXFxehHCg41kZJkz6u9Xro-2FcBeC5R3eY1VuA60pKcoxh6EqDCk9tR5b6WCcqqBLbD2D6ZA4anWTSw2u9t6eIOkf8AgePTjkHEp4s-2FoSPQ-3D and local chapter of the Alliance of Retired Americans (ARA)
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * (Schauble represents that wing of the European bourgeoisie - still a minority, but growing - which no longer wants to throw “good money after bad”. It wants to force Greece out of the eurozone, providing it with a one time injection of seed money rather than continued bailouts costing hundreds of billions of euros which will never be fully recovered.) Germany’s Wolfgang Schäuble puts Grexit back on the agenda By Stefan Wegstyl Financial Times July 16 2015 Days after Greece appeared to escape crashing out of the euro, hawkish German finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble has put Grexit back on the political agenda, raising tensions in Berlin and across the EU. Speaking before a key Bundestag vote on Friday, Mr Schäuble said voluntary departure from the eurozone “could perhaps be a better way” for Greece than a proposed €86bn bailout package, which was painfully assembled at a marathon eurozone summit in Brussels over the weekend. Despite his misgivings, the 72-year-old German minister said he would still personally put the package to parliament. His hollow-sounding pledge was eerily familiar to one from Athens this week, where Greek premier Alexis Tsipras presented the same plan to Greece’s parliament while admitting he did not believe in it. Mr Schäuble’s manoeuvre makes clear he is leaving open a Grexit option, even as he is formally backing the latest rescue plan to keep Greece in the eurozone. It is uncertain how much leeway he has been given by chancellor Angela Merkel to advance a historic rupture of the eurozone that he believes would ultimately strengthen both Greece and the single currency. Ms Merkel, who celebrates her 61st birthday on Friday, has long given more weight than Mr Schäuble to the geopolitical costs of Grexit but has also said that a deal to prevent it cannot come “at any price”. Her approach has hardened since June 26 when Mr Tsipras infuriated Greece’s international creditors by calling for a national referendum on their latest bailout offer. It later emerged Mr Tsipras had informed the chancellor and French president François Hollande of his plans in a telephone call. But he neglected to say he would campaign against the deal. Ms Merkel only learnt the truth after Mr Tsipras announced his intentions on television. The chancellor’s complaints about the loss of trust in Athens have since multiplied. Mr Schäuble said in a radio interview there was widespread concern — including at the International Monetary Fund — that Greece needed a debt cut for the rescue to work. But, he noted, a “debt cut is incompatible with membership of the currency union”. Even if he favours a Grexit, Mr Schäuble may have to take a roundabout route to get there. He is wary of being seen to push Athens out the door for fear of breaking Germany’s decades-long commitment to European unity. Such a move would also risk casting Ms Merkel as Europe’s bully — a claim many are already making after a summit in which she forced the capitulation of Greece’s defiant leftwing prime minister. Berlin has already signalled that should Grexit come, Germany would generously support Athens, including with a debt cut. Some EU officials believe Mr Schäuble’s repeated insistence that the IMF, which has partnered the EU in previous rescues, be included in a new bailout may be intended to engineer an eventual Grexit. The IMF has suggested it might not join a new Greek programme once its current rescue expires in March without heavy restructuring of existing eurozone loans. One EU official said Mr Schäuble could use this as “an excuse”. Ms Merkel in the meantime seems certain to win the Bundestag vote on Friday on the proposed bailout. But about 60 MPs from her CDU/CSU bloc could rebel in protest against lending Athens even a cent more. The fact that Mr Schäuble will on Friday recommend the plan could win over some sceptics, thereby reducing Ms Merkel’s embarrassment. The vote authorises only the start of negotiations, meaning Mr Schäuble will have time to manoeuvre before a second vote on the package itself, once negotiations are concluded. Eckhardt Rehberg, the CDU’s budget spokesman, said: “The debate over a temporary Grexit has been important.” But social democrats, also part of the coalition, are furious that Mr Schäuble harps on about Grexit and are urging him to stick to the script. Many suspect the finance minister is playing up Grexit partly to embarrass the leader of their SPD party, Sigmar Gabriel. Mr Gabriel had agreed with Ms Merkel and Mr Schäuble that the Grexit option should be aired at the weekend summit as a way to put pressure on Athens.
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 6:41 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: . . . But all this talk about Tsipras should have come up with a plan B while he was in these intense negotiations with the eurozone bigs is nuts... As far as i know, Louis, you are the only one talking like this. What the talk is about is whether Tsipras as the national leader of Syriza for several years before Syriza won the January 2015 elections and he became Prime Minister should have delegated work on preparing a plan B within the party and since January also within the government. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Merkel reduces teenage Palestinian refugee to tears
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * According to Merkel, politics is hard, what would Reem know about hardship? - Amith On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:30 PM, Joseph Catron via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On top of all the other reasons to love her this week: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/merkel-reduces-teenage-palestinian-refugee-tears-150716175958948.html -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Greek parliament vote breakdown
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/07/17/greek-parliament-votes-to-accept-viciously-anti-working-class-austerity-deal-of-the-troika/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Jul 16, 2015, at 2:55 PM, Dayne Goodwin via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 6:41 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: . . . But all this talk about Tsipras should have come up with a plan B while he was in these intense negotiations with the eurozone bigs is nuts... As far as i know, Louis, you are the only one talking like this. What the talk is about is whether Tsipras as the national leader of Syriza for several years before Syriza won the January 2015 elections and he became Prime Minister should have delegated work on preparing a plan B” within the party and since January also within the government. In fact, didn’t Varoufakis confirm earlier this week that a committee was instructed to study a Plan B during the negotiations but the project was quickly shelved? _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] currencies and IT
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Jul 16, 2015, at 2:01 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: The SWIFT exchange was in the news when Iran's access to it was threatened, and was mentioned in passing today in a Times article now that sanctions will be loosened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Worldwide_Interbank_Financial_Telecommunication Again, I’m not an IT expert, but it seems to me what’s been overlooked in this discussion is the distinction between the instantaneous electronic transfer of funds made possible by modern technology and the much longer timeframe required for the subsequent issuance of new coins and banknotes. Louis has made much of the time factor in introducing and distributing a new currency. I’m not clear as to what precisely he’s referring to when he asserts there are years of complicated computer programming required to implement the change. The origin of the eurozone is instructive in this regard. The conversion to the euro of 11 sovereign currencies involving hundreds of banks and hundreds of millions of Europeans was done at a keystroke and trading in the new currency began immediately. All that what was required was for the central banks in each country to fix the respective exchange rates at which the old currencies would be exchanged for the euro, and for the commercial banks to implement this change in depositors’ accounts. This conversion rates were the subject of negotiation between the central banks and with the new European Central Bank. The euro was launched on 1 January 1999, when it became the currency of more than 300 million people in Europe. For the first three years it was an invisible currency, only used for accounting purposes, e.g. in electronic payments. Euro cash was not introduced until 1 January 2002, when it replaced, at fixed conversion rates, the banknotes and coins of the national currencies like the Belgian franc and the Deutsche Mark.” In recognition that cash was still widely used, he old currencies continued to coexist with euro transactions and were gradually phased out over a three year period with minimal disruption to the financial system. Even today, cash is by far the most widely used means of payment for retail transactions in the euro area in terms of the number of transactions, although in terms of value it has a significantly smaller share. In both respects, however, the role of cash has been gradually declining in recent decades, while the use of debit and credit cards has been growing, a trend that is expected to continue.” For more detail, see: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/intro/html/index.en.html A Grexit would be politically difficult - but not, it appears, technically difficult - were it not an orderly process undertaken in concert with the eurozone. In this connection, I linked to an article yesterday which explained: The government and banks could work together to convert all bank deposits from euros into drachmas, either overnight or over a set period of time. Practically speaking, this would mean a person with 100 euros in their bank account on Tuesday could find that they instead have 100 drachmas in their account on Wednesday. There wouldn’t be any physical drachmas available yet, but the money would exist digitally…If the Greek government resolves to push ahead with its drachma currency, it would eventually have to print banknotes and coins. The process of designing and printing new banknotes would take at least a year, according to Bernd Kuemmerle, who is head of the banknote business division at German-based Giesecke Devrient, a leading global banknote producer.” This seems to me to be consistent with the apparent technical ease of converting drachmas into euros in 1999, except the process would work in reverse. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/16/15 10:33 AM, James Creegan wrote: But it is unavoidable at this juncture. Lenin didn't skip over the struggle against Kautsky, and move effortlessly on to the founding of the Third International, letting bygones be bygones. Between Kautsky and the Comintern, I don't know which was the bigger disaster. Not surprising that you would refer to the Comintern like some Catholics refer to St. Peter. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Merkel reduces teenage Palestinian refugee to tears
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Re: [Marxism] AP Exclusive: Palestinians quit medical study in Venezuela
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * For others who are curious, I think I've got this thing figured out. It sounds like these students thought they were going to an MD program, but then discovered it was actually a PhD program. The initial confusion, according one, was the error of the PA, not Venezuela. I don't know how early in the morning you have to wake up to pull off a shit-show like that, or like the AP article for that matter! -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] AP Exclusive: Palestinians quit medical study in Venezuela
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Nah, the version I relayed came from a relative of one of the students who returned. Sorry, I should have made that part clearer. On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:20 PM, Andrew Pollack acpolla...@gmail.com wrote: actually I read it as a misunderstanding about what is indeed an MD program, but one tailored to a more radical and valid approach. At the same time, the students who thought they would get more traditional training deserve empathy. It would be nice if this could be worked out. On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Joseph Catron via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * For others who are curious, I think I've got this thing figured out. It sounds like these students thought they were going to an MD program, but then discovered it was actually a PhD program. The initial confusion, according one, was the error of the PA, not Venezuela. I don't know how early in the morning you have to wake up to pull off a shit-show like that, or like the AP article for that matter! -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] NZ Labour Party's new racist anti-Chinese campaign
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The early NZ Labour Party - it was founded in 1916 - was fiercely racist against the Chinese and competed with the Liberal and Reform parties to see who could be most anti-Chinese (I think it was a draw, but Labour won the hypocrisy stakes as they pretended to be 'internationalists'). Now, Labour, in the form of its housing spokesperson Phil Twyford, is trying to blame the Chinese for the ridiculous house prices in Auckland. Unfortunately, most of the left in NZ is left-nationalist. So, while many have been appalled at the 'dogwhistle' racism of Labour's housing spokesperson, they simply counterpose a more 'fair' anti-foreign perspective. We desperately need an anti-capitalist left as opposed to a nationalist left. https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/07/15/supporting-the-foreigners/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: How Goldman Sachs Profited From the Greek Debt Crisis | The Nation
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[Marxism] Fwd: Another insane person found guilty of murder | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
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Re: [Marxism] AP Exclusive: Palestinians quit medical study in Venezuela
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * actually I read it as a misunderstanding about what is indeed an MD program, but one tailored to a more radical and valid approach. At the same time, the students who thought they would get more traditional training deserve empathy. It would be nice if this could be worked out. On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Joseph Catron via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * For others who are curious, I think I've got this thing figured out. It sounds like these students thought they were going to an MD program, but then discovered it was actually a PhD program. The initial confusion, according one, was the error of the PA, not Venezuela. I don't know how early in the morning you have to wake up to pull off a shit-show like that, or like the AP article for that matter! -- Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] The consolidation of the White New Zealand policy, 1900-1910
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/07/17/white-new-zealand-policy-pt-8-the-consolidation-of-white-new-zealand-the-social-political-and-intellectual-context-1900-1910/ This looks at how and why opposition to the White New Zealand policy became extremely rare from 1900 onwards and how White NZ immigration policy became thoroughly entrenched, after being somewhat contested in the late 1800s. Phil _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right…
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/16/15 7:41 PM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote: I would without hesitation have stood with Konstantopoulou, Lafazanis, Stratoulis, Don't forget Schnauble, you ingrate. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right…
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Jul 16, 2015, at 5:23 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote: On 7/16/15 3:19 PM, Marv Gandall wrote: Louis has made much of the time factor in introducing and distributing a new currency. I’m not clear as to what precisely he’s referring to when he asserts there are years of complicated computer programming required to implement the change. I recommend that you look at the comments thread under my article at Naked Capitalism for anything posted by me, Yves Smith, Nathan Tankus and someone named Clive. Grexit is for tomorrow. It will very likely be forced on the Greeks, no matter what you, Nathan, Yves, and Clive think about it. So the debate about its effects is largely academic at this point. We’ll have the opportunity to test how technically difficult it will be to partially or wholly reintroduce the drachma in real life when the the time comes. The immediate issue facing Syriza was whether to accept or reject the new round of cuts, regressive tax increases, deregulation, and privatization demanded by its creditors. Were I in the Greek parliament last night, I would without hesitation have stood with Konstantopoulou, Lafazanis, Stratoulis, and - to his credit - Varoufakis, as well as the other three dozen Syriza lawmakers in voting against these additional hardships the government agreed to impose on those it purports to represent. The logic of your position, and that of Panitch, Gindin, and Henwood, would have seen you stand with the majority of Syriza MPs and minority of central committee members who voted - “with deep regret” or otherwise - for the troika’s austerity program, in violation of both the Syriza program and the July 5th referendum result. At the end of the day, this is what this discussion has really been about. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right…
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * this requires explanation; if I'm reading it right it's inappropriate for this list: Don't forget Schnauble, you ingrate. On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 7:54 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/16/15 7:41 PM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote: I would without hesitation have stood with Konstantopoulou, Lafazanis, Stratoulis, Don't forget Schnauble, you ingrate. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/16/15 2:55 PM, Dayne Goodwin via Marxism wrote: What the talk is about is whether Tsipras as the national leader of Syriza for several years before Syriza won the January 2015 elections and he became Prime Minister should have delegated work on preparing a plan B within the party and since January also within the government. In other words, he should have be considering an exit from the eurozone when his entire political trajectory has been Europeanist? And for that matter, Stathis Kouvelakis, the most prominent hard Marxist in the Greek parliament and Grexit advocate, writes a book for Verso titled Crisis in the Eurozone that has less than a page on what that would amount to. I've been referred on FB repeatedly to Grexit made Easy type articles but every one of them is idiotic. Mostly the appeals to Grexit sound like Burl Ives's Big Rock Candy Mountain but I'll give credit to Marty Hart-Landsberg for laying it on the line: To be a bit more specific, a break from the Eurozone would require nationalization of the banks -- an act that would immediately draw the country into a serious legal test with Europe since the banks are technically under the control of the European Central Bank. It would require the government to quickly issue new scrip as it prepared a new currency, and aggressively engage in an expanded public works program. At the same time it was unclear whether the new scrip would be accepted and whether the country would have sufficient foreign exchange to maintain minimum purchases of key import items such as food and medicine. Moreover, many businesses, holding debts denominated in euros, would likely be forced into bankruptcy necessitating government takeover. And, all this would take place in a relatively hostile international environment. No doubt some countries would offer words of solidarity, but it appears unlikely that any would or could offer meaningful financial or technical assistance. Still, with proper preparation the possibilities for success could have been greatly enhanced. Unfortunately, he has confidence in the BRICS that seems unwarranted in light of China's interest in buying the Port of Piraeus at fire sale prices: Strikingly, Varoufakis mentioned that Syriza had established a small team to think about what a break would mean shortly after their January 2015 election, a team that no doubt was kept small because the government wanted to keep the planning secret. But that was a mistake. Planning should have happened on a large scale and in a visible way. Discussions should have been held with international legal experts as well as with the BRICS countries concerning possible use of their new lending and investment facilities. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Schnauble veers to the left
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/17/world/europe/eurozone-greece-debt-germany.html _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Schnauble veers to the left
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * the subject line (him veering to the left) appears to be baiting grexit supporters as allies of reaction. If so, this too is inappropriate for this list. On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/17/world/europe/eurozone-greece-debt-germany.html _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
