Re: [Marxism] Yascha Mounk and Osita Nwanevu debate the Harper’s letter on illiberalism: Gist with Mike Pesca transcript.

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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OH MY GOD!I read half of it and it got so COMPLICATED, I had to stop
because my head started to hurt.

I promise to read it all --- but I am beginning to wonder if we are getting
close to the discussion by the scholastics about "how many angels can dance
on the head of a pin?"

Sorry --- should be more respectful --- (and I do promise to read it all
SLOWLY when my head clears)

:

>
>
>
> https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/07/yascha-mounk-osita-nwanevu-debate-harpers-letter-gist-transcript.html
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Canceling the Cancel Culture: Enriching Discourse or Dumbing it Down? - CounterPunch.org

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Based on a (non-scientific) belief that readers of this list have MORE
THINGS to do/read than they have time for, I would like to seriously
recommend the DiMaggio piece in CounterPunch that Louis just posted --- It
is detailed, well argued, with significant evidence --- totally convincing
but even more importantly VERY USEFUL for its examples ---

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/07/14/canceling-the-cancel-culture-enriching-discourse-or-dumbing-it-down/
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Re: [Marxism] (99+) (PDF) Academic Corruption, the Israel Lobby, and 9/11, or, Why I have resigned from my emeritus status at the University of Sussex | Kees Van der Pijl - Academia.edu

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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 To show how "sheltered" I am -- I never heard of this guy ---

I knew that there was some "scuttlebutt" in the Arab world that all Jews
were told not to go to work On sept. 11, 2001 in the twin towers  (dont'
the remember the "Israelis did it" part but that's logical ...given the
first "fact")  and of course I know the 9-11 truthers who believe the Bush
Administrataion orchestrated 9-11 (even one from an old friend of mind that
the plane NEVER hit the Pentatgon -- that the "hole" was made by a missile
--- who "photos" to prove it!!) ---

I guess human capacity to convince themselves to believe what they want to
believe is infinite!!


> Kees Van der Pijl goes out swinging.
>
>
> https://www.academia.edu/38701130/Academic_Corruption_the_Israel_Lobby_and_9_11_or_Why_I_have_resigned_from_my_emeritus_status_at_the_University_of_Sussex?email_work_card=title
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] The Harper’s letter has an eerie closeness to Donald Trump’s Mount Rushmore speech.

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sorry to be a broken record but the text of this article that Louis just
posted cries out to REMIND us that one strong purpose of the original
letter (at least from this "leftist's perspective) is to note that by
engaging in the actions decried by the [Harper's] letter (no matter how
rare they may be) "our side" gives AMMUNITION and VALIDATION to the lies
Trump told at Mount Rushmore and elsewhere ---



>
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Re: [Marxism] Harper's Published an Awful Open Letter About "Toleration" | The Mary Sue

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And Deirdre McCloskey is a trans-phobe?

(answer:  She was born Donald McCloskey )
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Re: [Marxism] Freedom Means Can Rather Than Should: What the Harper's Open Letter Gets Wrong | Literary Hub

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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So the reason this letter is no good is because it was signed by J.K.
Rowling and doesn't mention the fight for LGBTQ rights?

So Noam Chomsky is guilty by association?

All American communists were Stalinist mass murderers by association??

All black men have to answer for a black rapist?   All gay people have to
answer for a single child molester?  (or a mass murderer like Juan Corona)

All Jews have to answer for Benjamin Netanyahu?

After reading this piece, I re-read the letter very carefully to see where
it denied the reality of trans people.  Couldn't find it 

Even THE BELL CURVE should be attacked and refuted  not burned or taken
out of a library --- When Steven J. Gould refuted it, he first READ it!!

The writer seems to be asserting that the letter is wrong because it
implicitly (or specifically) defends the right of anti-trans bigots to
assert that there is no such thing as a truly trans person (ridiculous idea
but there are plenty of them) --- but all it really does is caution the
rest of us to resist the urge to PUNISH "wrong" speech -- that's what the
OTHER SIDE does all the time and we should not give them ammunition 


https://lithub.com/freedom-means-can-rather-than-should-what-the-harpers-open-letter-gets-wrong/
>
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Re: [Marxism] Dead Letter: Rescuing Free Speech from the Liberals who Claim to be Defending It | The Public Autonomy Project

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I read the original letter --- Does the writer of this post not know that
VIRTUALLLY ALL of the people who signed the letter have been in the
forefront of the arguments in favor of ending repression in the US?   THe
whole point of the letter is that people purportedly on "our side" have
(unwittingly but definitely anyway) given aid and comfort to the fascists
by becoming EXAMPLES of "left-wing" illiberalism --- it's the same thing
that permitted the right wing in the early 1990s to attack "political
correctness" ---

These attacks from the right are ridiculously dishonest and often wrong
 accusing people incorrectly --- BUT there have been examples where
people have lost their jobs because they crossed some line or other of
political purity --- that happens to be the truth ---

The signers of this letter want people to keep their eyes on the prize and
the prize is ANTI-FASCISM --- ANTI-TRUMPISM ---

Unwitting support for the right wing fascists is dangerous to our side.

Notice, the attack on the letter and letter-writers does not say ONE WORD
is opposition to ONE SENTENCE in the letter --- and ignores the most
important sentence --- that such behavior HELPS the right-wing 

(lMike Meeropol)

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 https://publicautonomy.org/2020/07/09/free-speech/
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Re: [Marxism] » Socialist Strategy and the Biden Debate

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I thank Louis for linking to Elbaum's piece --

I think the crux of the difference between Elbaum and (probably) the
majority who subscribe to this list is here:

ELBAUM:  Today’s which-side-are-you-on dividing line is between a racist
authoritarian bloc led by Donald Trump vs. a larger but much more
heterogeneous array of forces that, from different angles, regard Trumpism
as a dire threat to their rights and interests.


This of course leads Elbaum to support what many would see as a dead=end
class collaborationist view (the lesser-evilism which has been the mainstay
of many on the "left" at least since 1964 ...)


On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:34 AM Louis Proyect wrote:

>   *
>
> What a surprise. Ex-Maoist Max Elbaum advocates Popular Front against
> Trump to prevent fascism. Where have I heard that before? Every election
> since 1964.
>
>
>
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[Marxism] so I opened the SUnday NY Times today and ....

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I started reading the SUNDAY REVIEW section of the Sunday Times (not the
Book Review --- what used to be labelled the NEWS OF THE WEEK IN REVIEW)
--- and was shocked that it seems like it's ALL full of stuff that could
have been (and HAS been) written by a radical (dare I say Marxist)
economist --

Check out this line from the introductory article written by the entire
editorial board:''Wages are substantially determined by a tug of war
between workers and employers "

That's class struggle economics not the "micro-economics" we were taught in
college (that I had to hold my nose and teach my first few years in the
classroom!!!) --- in the traditional approach, wages are determined by the
"productivity" of the workers in a "competitive" economy --- there is
virtually no room for the exercise of power in the markets (unless labor
unions or minimum wages "distort" the market!!).

Guess our side has been successfully "brainwashing" journalists for years
without even knowing it!!

WHo knew??
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Re: [Marxism] Donald Trump Speech Transcript at Mount Rushmore 4th of July Event - Rev

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Louis -- thank you for reprinted this Hitlerian speech and Hitlerian crowd
response --

I heard some of it and I am not kidding when I say Trump could BARELY READ
THE WORDS --- there were too many big words in the speech --

Maybe he could get excited at some parts but my guess is he just BULLED his
way through the speech in that "hostage tape" monotone that he always uses
as a "TELL" that someone else has written it and he never even practiced it
-

(he couldn't even pronounce the first name of U.S> Grant successfully !!)

The speech is worth all of us reading no matter how much it turns our
stomach -- We need to respond to it fully --- because it is a call to
fascism ---

And whoever was arrested for toppling Andrew Jackson --- we need a massive
DEFENSE fund and a full exposure of who Jackson is so that JURY
NULLIFICATION will occur!!!

Solidarity forever --- (Mike Meeropol)

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 8:35 AM Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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> *
>
> This attack on our liberty, our magnificent liberty must be stopped and
> it will be stopped very quickly. We will expose this dangerous movement,
> protect our nation’s children from this radical assault, and preserve
> our beloved American way of life. In our schools, our newsrooms, even
> our corporate boardrooms, there is a new far-left fascism that demands
> absolute allegiance. If you do not speak its language, perform its
> rituals, recite its mantras, and follow its commandments, then you will
> be censored, banished, blacklisted, persecuted, and punished. It’s not
> going to happen to us.
>
>
> https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-speech-transcript-at-mount-rushmore-4th-of-july-event
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] [pen-l] The World Socialist Web Site and the toppled Washington and Jefferson statues | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Louis -- I think I am building a reputation here as a "tired old
reactionary" whose revolutionary bona fides are non-existent --

My response on Jefferson and Washington is that everything you said about
their behavior is right -- especially as concerns the First Nations of
British North America --- but I would not spend a penny nor lift a finger
to support actions to get rid of anything celebrating them ---

My reason --- dont' go looking for battles that you cannot win, nor enemies
that you want as allies ---

The communists picked and chose from among the "heroes" of American history
with which to hitch their wagons --- political opportunism or genuine
mining of tradition, take your pick --- and identified the progress they
wanted to make with the progress that had been made in the past.

They were clueless about native peoples --- I mean my own father wrote a
line celebrating ANDREW JACKSON in The House I Live In (Paul Robeson sang
those words in one of his recordings -- but replaced Jackson with Douglass
in a different one!) ---

What does "our side" gain by taking a unifying struggle -- getting rid of
Confederate monuments (which are monuments to white resistance to black
progress in the late 1890s and the 1960s!) -- and dividing it by saying --
OH, and while we're at it, in addition to getting rid of monuments to
Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and other traitors, let's go after
Washington and Jefferson ...

(and Lincoln and Grant??)

Nope -- let's keep our eyes on the prize as we join in the battle for the
THIRD RECONSTRUCTION ...

(would Lenin call me a renegade like Kautsky??)

[Mike Meeropol]
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Re: [Marxism] Reflecting on Rod Carew, Minneapolis and Racism

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Notice the casual use of the word "BOY" by the cop 
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Re: [Marxism] Trump in ?fragile? mood and may drop out of 2020 race if poll numbers don?t improve, GOP insiders tell Fox News | The Independent

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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John, Mark's one line is the REASON I firmly believe that "this time" polls
mean nothing --"What could lose the election is turnout" --- how can any
poll correctly identify "likely voters" in this sui generis situation ---

Voter suppression probably stopped Kemp from having to face Abrams in a
run-off in Georgia -- and may have played a role in black voter turnout in
Milwaukee in 2016.

And I absolutely agree with John that we (the country) are in much worse
shape because Trump won than we would be if Cllinton had won --- I do
think, however, that one can AT LEAST make an argument that had Clinton
won, it would be the RIGHT that would be totally energized to fight her and
the left would be torn between supporting her and fighting her --- whereas
with Trump in power it is our side -- mostly liberals but plenty of
radicals as well --- who are united (and energized) to fight Trump --- in
other words the LEFT is in better shape to advance out agenda because Trump
won ...

Imagine giant demonstrations for Black Lives Matter (with all the
multiracial support generated today) if Clinton had won ??  Don't think
so.

(Mike Meeropol)
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Re: [Marxism] Trump in ‘fragile’ mood and may drop out of 2020 race if poll numbers don’t improve, GOP insiders tell Fox News | The Independent

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Let's get real -- -poll numbers mean nothing because it is impossible to
predict which "likely" voters will actually get to vote -- due to pandemic
fears, voter suppression, non-availability of mail-in ballots, long lines
at the polls, etc.

I would hope the DEMS assume they are going to lose and work their asses
off not to  any other approach helps Trump slither through to another
"victory" ---

(one could get all politically philosophical and ask "would it be better
for the 'revolution' if Trump won?" I won't go there but others might want
to )

Malcolm X said memorably that he'd rather have Goldwater than Johnson (in
1964) ... and gave good reasons 

(Mike Meeropol)



>
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-2020-us-election-drop-out-fox-news-republican-a9592036.html
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Spike Lee's awful new film on the Vietnam War - Da 5 Bloods

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Here's a link to Viet's review

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/movies/da-5-bloods-vietnam.html


On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 12:15 PM Michael Meeropol 
wrote:

> Everyone should read Viet Thanh Nguyen's review of the Spike Lee movie ---
> It is very important in reminding us that US treatments of the war
> routinely ignore the Vietnamese or turn them into PROPS rather than people
> ...
>
> One would think Lee as a person of color would be more sensitive to this
> issue --- NOT!!!
>
>
>
>>
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Re: [Marxism] Spike Lee's awful new film on the Vietnam War - Da 5 Bloods

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Everyone should read Viet Thanh Nguyen's review of the Spike Lee movie ---
It is very important in reminding us that US treatments of the war
routinely ignore the Vietnamese or turn them into PROPS rather than people
...

One would think Lee as a person of color would be more sensitive to this
issue --- NOT!!!



> > Spike Lee’s Da 5 Bloods: How Bad is It?
> >
> > by Jerry Lembcke
>
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Re: [Marxism] WSJ editorial: " Mr. Trump heads for what could be an historic repudiation that would take the Republican Senate down with him."

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Question -- Does this editorial indicate that the ruling class has already
soured on Trump and this is the first step towards persuading the
Republicans to dump him and try to win with Pence (or at least save the
Senate?) ---

OR is this a "cri de coeur" from the true believers who desperately want
Trump to win again and are trying to SHOCK him into running a REAL campaign?

I'm not sure, just reading the editorial --

(but one thing I AM sure about --- It sure is FUN to watch the "thieves
fall out" (though thieves is much too mild -- it's more like the ending of
Reservoir Dogs [we can hope, right?])

(Mike Meeropol)



>
> ---
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Gone With the Wind

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Here's an example --- In many Marx brothers films, there are incredibly
stereotyped blacks hanging around, dancing, etc. --- Groucho would often
refer to them as "darkies" --- You have to be inured to those elements but
I expect that the more sensitive one is, the less likely is one to be
willing to ignore that shit and focus on the incredibly clever humor ---

I wonder if I could stomach watching "A Day at the Races" again ...Maybe
just stop watching near the end!!!


> Most movies made before the 1960s, that come close to dealing with race or
> with having racial or racialized components or figures in them, are going
> to be suspect on these grounds. This is going to be a case-by-case search
> and decision-making process, and there will be many close calls, though all
> movies should have a copy at a central museum of film. I am for keeping
> "Casablanca" in regular use, as I deem its racist components too minor to
> cause such a good and classic film to disappear from public availability.
> But that sort of judgment must be applied to many films; some will be put
> away, most (I suspect) will survive. WH
>
> >
>
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[Marxism] From GWTW to Birth of a Nation

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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First of all, James Agee must have been crazy to write those words.   Even
ignoring the historical inaccuracies about the "misbehavior" of the
Reconstruction governments (including the portrayal of the Lt. Gov. of
South Carolina) the scene where the bug-eyed black guy (a white actor in
blackface because Griffith couldn't risk having a REAL black man attempt to
ravish Lillian Gish) causes the "sweet little white girl" to commit suicide
rather than be dishonored by him is an incredible atrocity feeding the
racist images of blacks that pervaded white society in "Progressive Era"
America. But there's much more --- the KKK with its hoods is the HERO of
the film --- how is that "pro-Negro"?   the whole thrust of the film with
the title BIrth of a Nation starts with the Civil War -- making sure we
were a united nation -- and the redemption by white southerners from the
horrors of black Reconstruction (as stereotyped in the film) with the final
scene the birth of the (WHITE) nation when the KKK makes sure that all the
blacks coming out of their shacks on election day (ELECTION DAY!!) just see
the dangerous white hooded guys and go back into their shacks -- KNOWING
THEIR PLACE. --

I taught a course on Comparative Race Relations (comparing the US to South
AFrica) for a bunch of years (first time about 25 years ago).  First thing
we did to teach the students how BAD things were for African Americans in
the "Progressive Era" was to have them watch the SECOND half of BIRTH OF A
NATION -- But we made sure to contextualize it -- identify it as
unabashedly racist and ask the students to imagine that this was the IMAGE
that most whites --- not necessarilly white southerners but white
northerners who knew virtually no blacks --- had.

I think that's how one uses racist images and literature -- you put it in
context.   Even then, it's tough.  We had a class on Minstrelcey and some
of the cartoons that went with the reading were so offensive the black
students in the class were really wounded --- (they told us after) --- we
had tried to warn students in advance but there's no question that this was
a tough one ... I think we did okay with Birth of a Nation (none of the
black students complained about showing it while being quite forceful about
the images from minstrel shows).

>
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Obamacare Must 'Fall, ' Trump Administration Tells Supreme Court : NPR

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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The response of the Supreme Court will be very revealing --- By their
previous "arguments" even Roberts should now be a vote to declare the act
unconstitutional because the ONLY basis for its constitutionality according
to Roberts (who was the swing vote last time -- Kennedy siding with the
right wing shits) was the ability of the US government to tax.

Unless Roberts can figure out a way to wiggle out of his previous written
opinion, it will fall to Gorsuch or Kavanaugh to determine the
"constitutionality" of the ACA ---

Given their predilections I would guess that as a matter of law (as they
see it) they have to vote with Thomas and Alito.

SOOO --- if Roberts decides that for political reasons, the ACA
must be upheld  it will be a perfect example of what Mr. Dooley said,
"The Supreme Court listens to the illection [sic!] returns!"

FROM A PRACTICAL POINT OF VIEW, the Court may just DELAY ruling until after
the election --- in the light of the disruption that such a change would
entail --- they might even figure out a way to kick the can all the way
till a vaccine for COVID-19 becomes available ...
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Re: [Marxism] Is capitalism too big to fail? | Richard Seymour on Patreon

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I guess the implications of the need to "prop up" capitalism is that when
capitalism collapses since the possibility of having the political strength
to create socialism is NIL (maybe that's not true in Europe and elsewhere
but certainly one could make that case about the US) then we are faced with
Rosa Luxembourg's alternative -- BARBARISM --- which many dystopian novels
can describe in excruciating detail.
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Re: [Marxism] fascism in the US?

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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ANDREW:   Considering that Robert Paxton points to the Klan as a fascist
organization decades before Mussolini came to power I have to agree with
that point

ME:

But I do think the difference, even between the Jim Crow South and true
fascism, is that even in the 1920s and 30s the "trappings" of bourgeois
democracy were still there.   In Frederickson's book WHITE SUPREMACY (a
wonderfully synthesized comparative history of the US and South AFrica) he
makes the point that even in the era of JIM CROW, the 14th Amendment to the
US Constitution made the Southern US qualitatively different from South
Africa ---

I think the only thing that could have beaten the true fascism of Italy and
Germany was defeat in a war --- whereas even in South Africa, there was a
way out of Apartheid short of whole-sale Civil War --- and in the US, all
that was necessary was the Federal Government's willingness to enforce the
14th Amendment.

In this circumstance, I do think we have a lot to fear of a fascist
(creeping fascist??) transformation of the current US version of bourgeois
democracy --- IF Trump gets and second term and Barr is able to continue
with his centralization of power in the Presidency and voter suppression
and a totally remade Judiciary, then within another 4 years we may have
passed the point of no return ---

(In fact, the only thing that will stand between Trump-Barr-etc. and true
fascism may be the professional military in the US ... although the German
military was bribed into cooperating with Hitler )

Sorry to bring this up again (on a Marxist discussion list!!!) but that's
why even a right-wing Dem like Biden is qualitatively "so much better" than
Trump --- (okay, okay, I'm shutting up again!!!)

(Mike Meeropol)
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Re: [Marxism] American Fascism: It Has Happened Here | by Sarah Churchwell | The New York Review of Books

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I am a fan of the CHRIS HEDGES book AMERICAN FASCISTS --- It was published
a bunch of years ago and makes the connections between the "dominionists"
among Christian fundamentalists and fascism  I found it convincing.



> I don't agree that fascism happened here in the 1930s but this is still
> a powerful article.
>
>
> https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2020/06/22/american-fascism-it-has-happened-here/
>
> AND yes, Louis, it is a good and powerful article --- though it should
have referenced the Hedges book and the "evangelical" connection
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Re: [Marxism] Progressive politics stirring among Orthodox Jews - New York Daily News

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I don't think the INTONATION can be sent over the internet --- but here
goes ---

ALAVAI --- 



>
> https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-progressive-politics-stirring-among-orthodox-jews-20200611-ullmv25lyfb73hbsh23qmcamra-story.html
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Black Lives Matter is about both race and class

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Jack Metzger's piece is outstanding --- well worth reading and digesting!

https://workingclassstudies.wordpress.com/2020/06/15/racism-and-the-working-class/




>
>
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>
>
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>
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Re: [Marxism] Minneapolis city council votes to disband police. Will they?

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Couldn't agree more with Mark --- us "oldsters" have seen big increases in
militancy and real victories (the Indochinese victories probably the most
dramatic and important --- no matter what happened post liberation) --- and
an outrageously successful establishment/right-wing/fascist {?]
counter-revolution.I would surmise that aside from those still able to
provide legal and/or medical assistance, the best we can do is offer (with
more humility than many of us are capable of [irony intended]) some
historical perspectives ---



>
>
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Re: [Marxism] The Protests Are a Preview of Our Turbulent Future,B

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Maybe the article indicates that there are nervous conservativs but I think
a lot of the substance of the article is full of shit  (IMHO!)
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Re: [Marxism] Minneapolis city council votes to disband police. Will they?

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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GOOD PARALLEL, LOUIS ''

"This was our version of the Tunisian fruit vendor
self-immolating."

--- I do think some of the reforms might make life easier for African
Americans --- a few cops going to prison might work wonders ---

(David Levering Lewis who put together an anthology of lynching articles
--- AT THE HANDS OF PERSONS UNKNOWN (I think) was the title ---once said
that lynching stopped when the forces of law and order actually were
willing to shoot people in lynch mobs --- that stopped the practice cold!)
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Re: [Marxism] George Floyd had 'violent criminal history': Minneapolis union chief

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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And I think the effort to blame the victim will NOT WORK with the public
--- However, the JURY will have to be VERY CAREFULLY selected and there
will have to be a strong resistance to a change of venue to a white
suburban population ---

There will be a danger that enough potential jurors will lie their way onto
the jury and vote to acquit --- hopefully the evidence will be so
overwhelming that an objective jury will convict ---

(or maybe one of the cops will FLIP!)
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Re: [Marxism] George Floyd had 'violent criminal history': Minneapolis union chief

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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If Floyd had been "clean as a hound's tooth" to use Dwight Eisenhower's
term about what he wanted from Richard Nixon, they would have INVENTED
stuff 

And I LOVE IT that the cop-fascist calls the national demonstrations
against police murders terrorist organizations!

It really sickens me as someone brought up singing union songs along with
Pete Seeger records to see the disgusting behavior of "union leaders"of
cops  I hope there are plenty of good cops who reject that guy's
approach
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Re: [Marxism] Is the pandemic a rehearsal for our own cosmic mortality?

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Another thought about why "they" have not attempted to contact us --

Imagine that all highly intelligent life forms (HILFs a la Ursula LeGuin)
have to go through the process of either destroying themselves through
nuclear war, pandemics, destruction of the local environment OR escaping
past that to a civilization that is sustainable.  Once they jump past that,
they can develop the scientific knowledge to escape the local system of
planets and explore the universe --- When they discover a "civilization"
that has not yet passed that point of self-destruction, they DON'T make
contact because they don't want those not yet "safe" civilizations to be
able to wreak their destructiveness on other HILFS in the universe ---

In other words, the outsiders want NOTHING to do with us until we show
whether we are going to get past the self-destructive barrier that destroys
so many HILF based civilizations ---

[this ain't my idea -- I actually got it from Noam Chomsky --- it's of
course a speculation!]
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[Marxism] I THINK TWO THINGS ARE GOING ON

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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It seems like there are two SEPARATE but CONNECTED things going on.

First --- an incredibly spontaneous outpouring of grief, anger, and
solidarity--- that is represented by all the demonstrations, large and
small (there were 100 people including the Putnam County Sheriff
demonstrating in Carmel, NY --- [the pro-Trump section of Putnam County, by
the way] -- taking a knee in opposition to police violence --- with four
local clergy leading the demonstration)  I think these demonstrations
are so large because the kindling of pain and suffering has been building
up for so long -- AND -- some have been so cooped up for so long that this
became a GOOD REASON to go out (and even risk health -- just as it was for
Wisconsin voters in the primary weeks ago).

(and the multiracial nature of the demonstrations is hopeful.  I believe
the current generation of young people (30 and under) are so much more
comfortable with the multiracial nature of our society --- if you're white,
you probably have black or Latino or Asian relatives --- if you are black,
Laino or Asian, you probably have white relatives --- certainly there are
classmates and co-workers --- especially in large cities --- and lets not
forget the incredible representation by people of color in the helping
professions, health care, transit, first responders in the largest cities
--- check out Houston, for example--- or in the essential industries like
meat packing, grocery workersThis resonates even with more privileged
people --- the white folks demonstrating in Solidarity see the injustice
and judging from the complexions of the demonstrators are moved by their
outrage to join that;s a good sign --- a sign that Trump;s knee jerk
appeal to racism MAY not work)

Second as evidenced by what has happened many places after dark --- the
situation produced an opportunity to redistribute wealth (that's what
"looting" is of course, even though many individuals engaged in it might
not think of it that way!) 

[by the way, a third aspect of this is the specific targeting of police
vehicles --- if one accepts the argument that local police forces are
occupying armies in some neighborhoods, this is a way of reducing the
technological advantages the occupiers have  ]

NOW _-- the question is --- will the media (and Democratic politicians) be
able to sharply distinguish these two  OR< will right-wingers (Trump's
already trying to do it) be able to MERGE these two in the minds of enough
suburban whites to give Trump a "law and order" bump --- REMEMBER, in 1968,
if you add Nixon's and Wallace's votes together you get 55 percent of the
voting public wanted "law and order" --- which in those days was code for
keeping black people down (notwithstanding the report of the Kerner
Commission that everyone -- including Lyndon Johnson the man who
commissioned it --- ignored!).

In addition, Trump's use of the military to clear Lafayette Park of
peaceful protesters might be an attempt to TURN peaceful protesters into
actual rioters ---Don't think that will happen.   The WHite House written
justification for "expanding the perimeter" explicitly conflated the
demonstrators in Lafayette Park with the fire set in the Church where Trump
did his photo-op (did he really hold the Bible upside down??)

INTERMEDIATE THOUGHTS FOR A PROVISIONAL CONCLUSION --- the large
demonstrations hopefully will raise consciousness and "appeal" to real
leaders AND (meanwhile) the looting and rioting will "shock" enough people
in the establishment so that some set of reforms MIGHT actually be
attempted --- (here the proposals of CAMPAIGN ZERO [see
https://www.joincampaignzero.org/] resonate as when tried they have led to
reduced police violence!) --- Recall that the rebellions of the 1960s
produced some real changes -- particularly in terms of Black access to the
media to the corporate offices to public office --- there really was [some
--- much too little] progress.

INTERMEDIATE QUESTION(s) -- from a ruling class perspective will it produce
a larger black voter turnout than in 2016 (which I believe is the key to
beating Trump). --- from a working class perspective, will it produce
actual organizing
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Re: [Marxism] [pen-l] Does neo-feudalism define our current epoch? | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I read your piece, Louis.   I agree that this conception of "neo-feudalism"
is very flawed (and I'm being generous).

I have come to be convinced by the SSA (social structures of accumulation)
approach -- we have had Capitalism since the enclosures destroyed the
commons in England (maybe there was something like Capitalism in the
Venetian City-States -- I won't go there!) ---

But there have been varieties of capitalism that had their own social
superstructure -- At base, it's the dispossessed wage worker who either
works for a capitalist (or a super-structural entity financed by the
capitalists --- the state, non-profits, foundations) or starves -- period,
the end.

THAT'S OKAY at first blush --- to get you to the dynamics of capital
accumulation.

BUT HOW IS THAT SYSTEM SUSTAINED?   How come the injustices of the system
(from the very beginning when it provoked the diggers in England through
the wildcat strikes at warehouses and packing plants today) do not lead to
the immediate expropriation of the expropriators as Marx hoped (and
predicted) in Vol. I of Capital?

That's where the various super-structures come in --- where some element of
what Jim O'Connor called LEGITIMIZATION comes in --- (I would add, combined
with REPRESSION)

Fascism is one of these super-structures  --- social democracy European
style is one of them --- Pale imitation of social democracy in the US
(1945-1981?? -78??) was one of them  --- so is neo-liberalism as practiced
here till now ---

I do think the Reagan-Bush-Clinton neo-liberal version of Capitalism
crashed and burned in 2008-2009 --- and Obama's efforts did not create
anything new that was sustainable  -- leading to Trump getting elected ---

Putin's Russia, Brazil's Bolisano [sp?], Turkey's Erdogan [sp?], Trump's
America --- are all groping towards a fascist TYPE control -- highly
repressive (makes anything done in the US since the 1919 steel strike and
the Palmer raids appear tame -- except for Southern racist terrorism in the
Civil Rights struggles) --- with almost NO COHERENT economic policy ---

That's what I think is going on --- and it's definitely capitalist but the
new SSA has not been born --

(MY favorite recent book on the subject is David Kotz's THE RISE AND FALL
OF NEOLIBERAL CAPITALISM --- I even reviewed it -- which is attached here
---)
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Re: [Marxism] Many disappointed fans of Bernie Sanders would prefer a quixotic display of principle.

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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At the risk of reviving the admonitions of some members of the list to keep
my "liberal" politics off of a Marxist discussion list, I would like to
take this opportunity to comment on the desire of the NY Times to lean on
the authority of (prominent?) leftists to rally support for Biden among the
Sandernistas and DSAers and others on the left.

The ruling class (at least that sector represented by the NY Times) is
truly afraid of Trump --- they are wedded to the democratic forms of the
US's version of capitalism and they are afraid that Trump and Trumpism will
destroy it irrevocably   If Trump wins and enshrines a voter
suppression regime that makes the Democratic Party a permanent rump party
(even if the Dems don;t lose the House immediately), the democratic forms
that have always "canalized" discontent into a very narrow path will no
longer be available.   They fear a total collapse of the system of
"democratic capitalism" that dominated the US since the end of the
Depression.

Without a viable Democratic Party as the "loyal [to capitalism] opposition"
who knows where the discontented masses will go 

The uncertainty is too much for that wing of the ruling class to bear ---
hence the NY Times effort to corral as much of the left as possible into
Biden's camp ---

Obviously based on the previous admonition, I won't give my version of my
opinion

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 6:48 PM Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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> *
>
> (Mitchell Abidor, who did French translations for the Marxist Internet
> Archives, castigates DSA and Jacobin for not endorsing Biden. Talk about
> cognitive dissonance. Funny that he earned a slot in the NY Times op-ed
> page. The liberal bourgeoisie must be worried about Joe Biden being such
> a foul candidate that they hope the Jacobin left can be pressured into
> backing him. I strongly suspect that by July, you'll see lots of
> articles about the need to stop Trump without specifically calling for a
> Biden vote. I can just see Bhaskar Sunkara and Meagan Day poring over
> copies of the Daily World from 1968 for tips on how to write them.)
>
> NY Times Op-Ed, May 13, 2020
> These Young Socialists Think They Have Courage. They Don’t.
> Many disappointed fans of Bernie Sanders would prefer a quixotic display
> of principle.
> By Mitchell Abidor
>
> Mr. Abidor is the editor and translator of “Down With the Law: Anarchist
> Individualist Writings From Early Twentieth-Century France.”
>
> The progressive magazine The Nation published an open letter last month
> in which former members of the radical 1960s organization Students for a
> Democratic Society pleaded with a younger generation of leftists to
> support Joe Biden for president. The letter, titled “To the New New Left
>  From the Old New Left,” warned that the re-election of President Trump
> would jeopardize “the very existence of American democracy.”
>
> The signatories expressed fear that some supporters of Bernie Sanders,
> including members of the Democratic Socialists of America, would “refuse
> to support” Mr. Biden because they consider him “a representative of
> Wall Street Capital” — and therefore, in essential respects, not
> fundamentally better than Mr. Trump.
>
> The letter was fair and sensible in its reasoning and right-minded in
> its conclusion. Given that the difference of a few thousand votes in
> states such as Michigan and Wisconsin might allow Mr. Trump to win a
> second term, a quixotic display of socialist principle in the 2020
> election could have disastrous repercussions for the nation and the world.
>
> Unfortunately, the letter’s fears were well-founded. The Democratic
> Socialists of America had already declined to back Mr. Biden. It has
> been joined in that refusal by Jacobin magazine, an influential
> publication among young leftists.
>
> Bhaskar Sunkara, Jacobin’s editor, announced on Twitter that he would
> vote for the Green Party candidate, Howie Hawkins. The magazine has
> since published several articles on the question of supporting Mr.
> Biden, including one that criticized the former members of Students for
> a Democratic Society for “haranguing young socialists,” insisted that
> building a democratic socialist movement “is the only real hope for the
> planet’s future,” pointed to the violation of rights under 

Re: [Marxism] W.E.B. Du Bois: A New Book on The Life of a Radical Scholar: *W.E.B. Du Bois: A Life in American History*, by Charisse Burden-Stelly and Gerald Horne | J. T. Roane | AAIHS

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I was somewhat miffed in the accompanying interview that the author did not
credit David Levering Lewis' monumental two volume work on DuBois ---

I will be interested to read that book --- I had the pleasure of meeting
Dr. DuBois once (but I was a 10 year old and could not appreciate the great
man who I was meeting ---).   I do remember how important his work was when
I was in college still be educated about Reconstruction by the right-wing
racists who dominated historiography until the 1960s 
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Re: [Marxism] How Greenwich Republicans Learned to Love Trump | The New Yorker

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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thanks, Louis -- VERY MUCH worth reading --- these capitalists in Greenwich
have no "real" class consciousness --- they are individual money-grubbers
---  and if they are what capitalists are becoming, they will have no one
to save them ---

Rosa Luxembourg was right -- SOCIALISM or BARBARISM (and barbarism is
winning now )


https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/05/11/how-greenwich-republicans-learned-to-love-trump
>
> _
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Meatpacking strikes

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Am I missing something.  With meat-packing plants becoming killing fields,
shouldn't we ALL be refraining from eating meat until they become paragons
of safety?

Eggs, peanut butter and jelly, soy products --- cheese??

I'm serious --- I think we ought to start doing that --

(and how do we contribute to strike funds??)
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Re: [Marxism] Request for Source assistance

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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> Dear Friends & Member so of List:
>
> I have had a lot of trouble getting out two particular articles, and
> I wonder if anyone has an easy access to them? Indeed, I would be very
> grateful if possible - for these two. Thank you for considering. They are:
>   1) Christopher Hill as being: "State and Revolution in
> Tudor and Stuart England," in Communist Review, July 1948, p. 212
>
> 2) Rodney H. Hilton Mode Quarterly 1947; Vol 2 No 3 pp 267-8 in especial,
> but I think his article must be longer than just those 2 pages I found the
> reference for.
>
> Cheers Hari Kumar
>

That's MODERN QUARTERLY right Hari?
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Re: [Marxism] "Trump comments prompt doctors, and Lysol, to warn against injecting disinfectants"

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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What I find particularly interesting about this period, is that the
institutions the ruling class created to "make policy" (here I use the Bill
Domhoff model of the "policy planning process") seem to have been totally
ineffective in "convincing" Trump to do right by the ruling class --- which
suggests that in certain situations, a particularly powerful (crazy?  sui
generis??) "leader" can override the class interests of the Bourgeoisie
. for good (think FDR) or evil (think Trump, Hitler)




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Re: [Marxism] [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Death Cults, Wildcats, and Liberal Civility | Afflict The Comfortable (The Mind of Bob Buzzanco)

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Let's call them what they are:

DEATH DEMONSTRATORS --- they are demonstrating in favor of death .

THey think because they're white and middle class and not over 70 they
won't get the disease ---so they are actually demonstrating for MORE DEATHS
for the "others" .

No more "nice folks" in debate - these are death worshippers 

My brother sent an LTE to his local paper using that language --- we should
be bombarding local papers with similar messages --
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Re: [Marxism] MMT, Chartalism, and Keynesianism

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Hey folks --- just in case you are wondering --- I am a person mostly
(totally??) ignorant of MMT (haven't taught Macro since 2014 and never used
it in any of my classes) who VERY MUCH APPRECIATES the debate you have been
having --- it is clarifying a lot for me --

So don't think you are a handful of people listening to echoes in an empty
room --

There is an "audience"

Thanks, Mike

[SO NOW A QUESTION FROM THE PEANUT GALLERY --- is the recent collapse of
the price of oil and the improvement in the competitive position of
renewables something that may reduce (eliminate) the importance of the fact
that oil is priced in dollars?]
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Re: [Marxism] WA Post: "Record government and corporate debt risks tipping point"

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90% of that WAPO article is garbage  corporate debt is another problem
but government debt is not (Japan's government debt reached 200% of GDP)
--- with interest rates so close to zero in nominal terms that they are
probably negative in the long run, government borrowing can be much higher
than it is even now ---
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Re: [Marxism] [pen-l] Some may have to die to save the economy?

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Thoughts on what Ralph wrote ---

Back in 1974, Robert Heilbroner wrote a VERY PRESCIENT book called An
Inquiry Into the Human Prospect.   The first part was about environmental
problems -- which (even at that early date) mentioned global warming as a
long term problem.   The second was whether we in the "west" would succumb
to totalitarian governments to force through the changes necessary to ride
out this problem [here he was dead wrong as by the end of the 1970s led by
Thatcher in Britain and then after 1981, Reagan in the US, the "west" opted
for neo-liberalism (on this see Yergin and Stanislaus THE COMMANDING
HEIGHTS (where they never once mention neo-liberalism!) --- but only as to
timing.  It took longer (till very recently) for environmental problems
plus the ultimate failure of neo-liberalism to move many countries towards
authoritarianism.  The third problem focused on my Heilbroner was the idea
that (perhaps) human nature CRAVED a boss-figure to tell us what to do ---
that we humans have an instinct to succumb to totalitarianism.  (This in
direct contrast to Noam Chomsky's optimistic speculation that we humans
have an "instinct for liberty.")

Ralph's description of the failure of the neo-liberal Humpty Dumpty to be
put back together again when the virus is finally tamed (I really do
believe there will be a vaccine --- unlike AIDS which affected small
percentages of the population in the developed world therefore not creating
this great search for the treatments that would earn big pharma big bucks,
COVID-19 given the structure of compensation in Big Pharma will earn some
companies mega-billions --- ) may be right --- AFter all, what caused the
2008-9 financial meltdown has NOT been remedied --- In Europe's "south"
there really never was much of a recovery --- in the US it was stronger but
not enough to satisfy large swaths of the population leading to support for
Bernie AND Trump --- So rebuilding from the terrible economic destruction
wrought by the pandemic will be extremely hard if not impossible.

Thus -- the only way the capitalists remain on top is with fascist type
governments.

Q.E.D.

(so what do we do about it?)

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 5:28 PM Ralph Johansen 
wrote:

> My response to a friend who wrote this to his family copy to me:
>
> On 4/18/2020 11:02 AM, - wrote:
>
> Some may have to die to save the economy?
> This headline in my paper today summarizes my opinion about the "early"
> opening.  It is easy to want a return to normality. Our Wall Street
> government will lie and downplay the dangers. Our family shouldn't be
> seduced.
> Pops
>
> Well I don't know. I've lived in the relatively good times, for anyone in
> the American middle class especially. And now I feel as if I as one of an
> age bracket most susceptible could go out, willingly, gloriously, to save
> Trump by saving the economy and helping to make America even greater again,
> for another term.
>
> I have thoughts about these things. Something like this:
>
> I can't for the life of me see how the economy recovers. First and
> foremost there's the whole global environment collapsing and we're either
> oblivious or frozen in place, business as usual, and it's coming with its
> penumbra to our neighborhood as sure as we're sitting here. And do we
> maybe think we're just going to wait alongside and watch it happening
> somewhere else?
>
> And what do we really know about this virus or possibly others to follow,
> how long they last and spread in a closely-packed, interdependent if
> seemingly remote slum, favela, barrio and ghetto world, and how they relate
> to what we're doing to the environment and where there might be prevention
> or testing or cure or vaccination or some sort of magic foresight or
> scientific breakthrough?
>
> And then because look, we all stop, supposedly just for the time being,
> buying cars and washing machines and electronic gismos and chotchkies and
> we stop going to the barbershop and the theater and the hardware and
> restaurants and air travel and other tourism stuff and everybody either
> loses their job or is cut so far back that nobody can pay the mortgage or
> the rent or the utilities or the credit cards and loans or medical and
> dental bills and the debt and interest pile up and shops, stores,
> warehouses and offices and hospitals close down along with their employees
> and municipal, state and local governments lose their tax revenue and the
> supply chain that's supposed to ship us sustenance collapses and big
> corporations eat more small corporations and strip their assets and fire
> everybody and declare a big dividend and the government prints endless

Re: [Marxism] An "All Hands on Deck" Moment: Sixty-Six Old New Leftists Urge Support for Joe Biden - New Politics

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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And it appears that neither Paul nor Mari Jo Buhle signed the letter from
the 66 ..
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[Marxism] more right-wing sh!t

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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This is a message from the President of  right-wing college called
HILLSDALE -

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/thoughts-current-crisis/?utm_campaign=imprimis%3Butm_source=housefile%3Butm_medium=email%3Butm_content=marchapril2020crisis&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8yim-tRZKQbJwhunaDajTEEB635rEkiJL-H4Loo93HrKuzKofGJIQ0ak475HngkmTr5Bb5z94ml47vjFEC4VNkoER2NQ&_hsmi=86356698

It is quite disgusting but for those interested in seeing how so-called
intellectual right-wingers argue it is "interesting"

Most of you will want to delete this but there are some who sometimes study
this crap  those might actually find the reasoning "instructive"

(emhasizing "bureaucratic" entities in the government that have supposedly
"ruined" the government since the 1960s!)

Sorry for cluttering the in box (even if briefly)

Mike
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[Marxism] THE RIGHT WING PREFERENCE FOR DOLLARS OVER LIVES

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I have the unfortunate "luck" of having a subscription to both NEWSMAX and
MONEYNEWS --- both extreme right-wing on line "magazines."

Usually, I delete it without bothering to look at it but I saw the
reference to Stephen Moore (a real right-wing creep) and decided to have a
look at it.   Maybe (just maybe) it is worth it for (at least some of) us
to check out how these maniacs think  The idea that they (and through
them Trump their unthinking acolyte) are being so blatant about how much
more important "the economy" (their dollars) is than human lives --- even
on a vast scale  --- is disgusting but probably important to see with our
own eyes.

In any event, those who have the stomach for actually checking how how
these characters think and "reason" can check out their "rationales" here
and elsewhere.

The rest can hit delete and ignore.

In solidarity (and disgust), Mike

https://www.newsmax.com/finance/economy/stephenmoore-coronavirus-economy/2020/04/09/id/962216/?ns_mail_uid=311e4642-c297-42ce-a4d4-78600795cff9_mail_job=DM104539_0411220=acs_nbr=0101249595el
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Re: [Marxism] Country Practices Socialism Distancing

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Until Perez started cursing I wasn't sure it was a spoof!!
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Re: [Marxism] Corbynism Lost, Sandersism is Losing: Why Working Within Capitalist Parties Fails | Left Voice

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Another interesting question --- Is Cuomo style National Economic Planning
going to explode the ridiculous ideological triumph of the "magic of the
market"??? --- will there be a groundswell of demands for forcible command
and control allocation of "important resources" as Cuomo is doing with
medical equipment AMONG SUPPOSEDLY "INDEPENDENT" HOSPITALS?>   I mean by
standards of "freedom" what he's ding should be completely forbidden yet
there he is --- and American President's have similar rights --- it's just
Trump doesn't want to do it (and if he tried he's be so concerned to direct
resources to his cronies it would do more harm than good!)

Cuomo runs a big enough state that it might work out --- Don't know if
Newsom in California has taken as much control as Cuomo has.

As Cuomo's model becomes more popular, there should be a groundswell of
demands that the Federal Government do for the COUNTRY what Cuomo is trying
to do for NY 



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[Marxism] NAVARRO's GASLIGHTING

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Just watched a bit of Trump enabler Peter Navarro on TV --

they claim to be "solving" the bidding war for medical equipment by
CONFINING it to this country -- NO EXPORTING is how he describes these new
rules --

BUT in the same briefing they specifically said they would NOT take action
to "disrupt the supply chain"

WHAT A CROCK!
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Re: [Marxism] The political impact of COVID-19

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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There will be Hell to pay unless Trump and his enablers can sell
"alternative facts" as part of his re-election campaign ---

He has already set the BAR very low by claiming that HIS ACTIONS will have
saved over a million lives --- 1.2 million if "we" do nothing  vs. 200,000
if "we" behave perfectly ---

Some Republicans are blaming the Democrats' "preoccupation with impeachment
in January" as the reason the federal govt. fumbled the ball ...

So it goes ...
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Re: [Marxism] The Contrarian Coronavirus Theory That Informed the Trump Administration | The New Yorker

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Thanks for posting -- the journalist did a VERY GOOD job ---  I hope people
read the article carefully ...
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Re: [Marxism] Was Dorothy Day a Saint or a Subversive?

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Karen Armstrong is a BRILLIANT writer  her book THE BATTLE FOR GOD was
a must read right after 9-11 with all the simplistic arguments about
"religious fundamentalism."

I should have realized it was her writing!!

**
>
>
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>
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[Marxism] Fwd: [pen-l] If we want everyone to stay home during a coronavirus crisis, we need deep change to make that possible

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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-- Forwarded message -



Yes! Chicago’s socialist Alderpeople couldn’t have said it better or more
elegantly. At this time we need Bernie’s policies more than ever. Vote for
him! : If we want everybody to stay home during a coronavirus crisis, we
need deep change to make that possible


If we want everybody to stay home during a coronvirus crisis, we need de...

Contributor

As we pursue an end to the COVID-19 crisis, we can’t avoid a national
conversation about why we were so woefully...



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Re: [Marxism] Rethinking Voting for Democrats

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Louis might know the answer 

Just out of curiosity, how many people are in this group anyway?  I'masking
because, as a rule of thumb, the larger the organization the morepressures
in faces to engage in this "rethinking
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Re: [Marxism] [pen-l] YOU'VE GOT TO ACTUALLY READ THIS SH%$ TO BELIEVE IT EXISTS

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I have (ridiculously optimistic) hope that the FACTS ON THE GROUND of the
spread of Corona Virus and Trump's dishonesty will FINALLY strike home to
his supporters --- at least some of them ---  It might be a "lightbulb"
moment of realizatiion that he's a gaslighter 

[some of course are revelling in the fact that the early cases of the virus
are in "blue" states on coasts but that is changing rapidly (cases in
Texas, Florida, etc.)]

On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 11:15 AM David Richardson 
wrote:

> Yes, this does exist, as well as lots of worse stuff.  However, the point
> isn't to get people to believe any particular lie, but rather to destroy
> their sense that there are any facts at all, and thus to see everything in
> a "he said, she said" frame.  Once this happens, it's easy for people to
> vote Trump.
>
> --
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Was Lenin a boomer?

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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that guy, Lenin -- he was pretty smart, eh?



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[Marxism] YOU'VE GOT TO ACTUALLY READ THIS SH%$ TO BELIEVE IT EXISTS

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I was all set to hit DELETE when I thought it might be useful for more
people on our side to actually read WORD FOR WORD what the idiots on the
right were believing -- (the guy who wrote the book is just trying to sell
books but I am pretty sure lots of people actually believe this garbage!)

-- Forwarded message -
From: Moneynews 
Date: Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 7:00 AM
Subject: Federal Reserve's Ugly Plot to Destroy Trump Economy
To: 



 ‌



*(and how you can profit from it big time!)*

Dear Reader,


Do you ever think, “What do I do just in case . . .”

Just in case 2008, the year of the epic financial crash, happens again.

Right now, all of your stocks, bonds, real estate, and other assets hang in
the balance.

They may hang by a thread.

If you want to know what to do “just in case” this happens again, read the
information below!

His name is Jerome Powell and he controls the most powerful financial
institution ever created — the *Federal Reserve*.

It is also one of the most secretive.

And until February 2022, Powell (who was first appointed by President
Barack Obama) and his Federal Reserve Board will have almost dictatorial
control over the entire U.S. banking system and the entire global financial
system.

Now, bestselling author *James Dale Davidson blows the whistle on Powell’s
plot to stop Trump*.

From the famed economist who made one amazing prediction after another
including . . . the fall of the Berlin Wall, 2008 financial meltdown,
Brexit, and even Trump’s surprise election victory . . .

A shocking new warning to investors . . . Liberal “insiders” are conspiring
to trigger a devastating market crash to blame on President Trump . . .

In his new book *The Breaking Point: Profit From the Coming Money Cataclysm*,
Davidson reveals why and how the Fed could ratchet rates to create an
economic nightmare for Trump.

Or refuse to lower rates even if the current coronavirus outbreak spreads
out of control and sinks the markets further.

[image: capitalist code book]


In fact, Davidson predicted the rate hikes in 2018 that put a damper on
Trump’s hope for 4% GDP growth.

He says the next time, they will destroy the so-called “recovery.”

Already the big Wall Street banks like Goldman Sachs, the same banks that
backed Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump, have been warning their clients a
big market correction was set to hit . . .

They just didn’t realize it would happen so soon with the coronavirus
plunge in late February.

Now James Davidson predicts the Dow could easily fall back to 15,000 — a
shocking collapse from its recent highs.

*The Breaking Point reveals the total corruption of our free market system.
*

Davidson shows how Obama and his minions rigged government numbers and
statistics before Trump was elected, to create the mirage of a prosperous
economy.

And he says hidden laws and regulations are trapping you and your wealth in
the U.S.

At the center of the maelstrom is the biggest money-grabbing hoax ever
unleashed . . . the monetary policies of the Federal Reserve.

Since the 2016 election the Fed has raised the key interest rate 8 times!

Then after being pressured by Trump, they lowered rates again, three times
in 2019.

They are also claiming they will no longer be bullied when it comes to
lowering or hiking rates this election year . . .

The handwriting is on the wall.

America is at her Breaking Point!

*Davidson’s new book could mean the difference between prosperity or
calamity for you in 2020 and beyond!*

*Click Here
*
to continue reading this wealth-saving message and claim your copy of *The
Breaking Point*.

Nick Moccia
Finance Publisher
Newsmax
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders is no longer an issue

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I dont want to appear snarky but I don't believe we KNOW ANYTHING about
what will happen in the Democratic Party nominating fight ---

Also --- as an aside --- even if there is a 99.9% chance that Biden will
beat Bernie for the nomination, it is STILL WORTH IT to fight like tigers
to support Bernie ---
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Re: [Marxism] Could Sanders win? | Red Flag

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I've actually sworn off "lesser of two evilisms" on this list 

Sanders would re-instate DACA -- would stop separating children from
parents ---would use his Labor Department to really combat wage theft ---
would use his role as commander in chief to really begin to cut back on the
American military empire --- would use his bully pulpit to wean as many of
the white working class as possible away from fascism and xenophobia --- he
would use the entire panoply (sp?) of the Federal Government to make sure
that the population understands the dangers of climate change  The
education department would no longer be protecting rip-off private colleges
---

Just check out the book OUR REVOLUTION for more aspects of his program ---
(much of which, admittedly, requires Congrss --- but also there is a lot a
President can do --- note what Trump has done with just executive orders
which a PResident Sanders could reverse on day one)

(And I agree with some of the other postings which answered this first
challenge)
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Re: [Marxism] Could Sanders win? | Red Flag

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I read the article --- I agree it is a very good analysis ---

The question is --- would the "few positive steps" of a Sanders presidency
be a STRUCTURAL REFORM of US capitalism or not?
I think it would be --- and therefore worth wholeheartedly supporting 
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Re: [Marxism] Red-baiting in the 21st century

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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One of the other things that the red-baiting of Sanders might do is it
reveals to people that the so-called "Liberal" Democrats are more afraid of
a truly democratized Democratic Party than they are of Trumps fascism ---
It is my hope that the "liberal" rank and file be listen to their "liberal"
political and punditry "leaders" just like the Culinary Workers of Nevada
"listened" to their leaders' trashing of Bernie's Medicare for All ...

One can only hope, eh?
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Sorry Dennis -- but I've already thrown in my lot with the "FASCISM IS
COMING, THE WORLD IS BURNING" crew  I know that this is a (miniscule?)
minority position on this list ---

I know that the majority of people here do not accept the analogy to the
refusal of Communists and Socialists to make common cause against Hitler
--- but that is the (heretical?) reason why I am "toadying" for a worthless
party ---

So that is why even a horrible corporate democrat is to be preferred to
Trump ---

That person would owe his/her presidency to the energized youth and people
of color --- and unlike Obama will have to deliver in order to get
re-elected --

Lessons learned by the disappointments of the Obama administration MIGHT
actually lead to an upsurge in activism that will keep the ball rolling ---

We know what we'll get with Trump -- more judges, more support for
polluters and fossil fuels, more validating racism and xenophobia --- the
planet may already be too far gone but it will DEFINITELY be with four more
years of Trump 

Therefore, I think almost any Dem alternative would be qualitatively better
than Trump ---

But you're probably right --- such sentiments are probably not very useful
on a Marxist discussion list ---

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 1:29 PM Dennis Brasky  wrote:

>
>
>>
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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John is 100% right -- WE JUST DON'T KNOW --- (that's why sports teams play
the games rather than award the trophy to the team with the best record
going into the tournament!) --

THEREFORE, it is most appropriate that everybody vote for the person they
like the best  and then work like Hell for WHOEVER the Dems choose ...

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 10:39 AM John Reimann <1999wild...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Michael Meeropol is dealing with a different issue. Yes, many voters even
> including former Republican voters, loathe and want to defeat Trump. That
> was proven in the 2018 elections, which had a record turnout for a midterm
> election. But that vote went to middle-of-the-road Democrats. Of the 41
> seats that were "flipped", every single one went to such Democrats. There
> were a few seats that were considered winnable for Democrats in which a
> Sanders-type candidate ran. Those seats weren't flipped. And so far, the
> traditionally non-voting youth have not turned out to vote for Sanders in
> any large numbers.
>
> This doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the same this November, or
> even later in the primary season. It's possible that if the Berniemobile
> gathers momentum, this will inspire this layer of traditional non-voters.
> The point is that it has not done so until this point.
>
> Of course, if Sanders is the nominee we will see an avalanche of
> red-baiting, as well as attacks on Medicare for all. The point is that this
> could very well have an affect on the middle-of-the-road voters who flipped
> those 41 seats in 2018, and unless there is a new layer of radicalized
> youth who turn out, the result of a Sanders-led Democratic ticket could be
> very dire... as could the exact opposite.
>
> The leadership of the Democratic Party who are certain that Sanders will
> lead them to disaster are lost in the wilderness. But so are those who are
> certain that Sanders would handily defeat Trump. My point is that we simply
> don't know, not any more than those meteorologists who try to predict the
> track of a hurricane.
>
> John Reimann
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:41 AM Michael Meeropol 
> wrote:
>
>> This whole focus on turnout in the primaries ignores one major fact ---
>> MANY democrats DON'T CARE who is nominated --- they want to beat Trump and
>> will come out to vote against him.   How else to explain the record
>> turnouts in 2018?
>>
>> The most important thing we can do is to counter the rising tide of
>> anti-Sanders red-baiting.  I was unfortunate enough to be stuck in an
>> automobile dealer's waiting room while my car was serviced.  As in too many
>> public places, the TV was turned to Trump-TV (alias Fox) --- and the were
>> going on and on about Bernie supporting Castro and Venezuela and how
>> horrible those countries are ---
>>
>> That's Trump's playbook and it is worth fighting against ---
>>
>>
>> 
>>> 
>>
>>
>
> --
> *“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black
> Jacobins" by C. L. R. James
> Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
>
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Re: [Marxism] Sanders's "turnout" strategy not working

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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This whole focus on turnout in the primaries ignores one major fact ---
MANY democrats DON'T CARE who is nominated --- they want to beat Trump and
will come out to vote against him.   How else to explain the record
turnouts in 2018?

The most important thing we can do is to counter the rising tide of
anti-Sanders red-baiting.  I was unfortunate enough to be stuck in an
automobile dealer's waiting room while my car was serviced.  As in too many
public places, the TV was turned to Trump-TV (alias Fox) --- and the were
going on and on about Bernie supporting Castro and Venezuela and how
horrible those countries are ---

That's Trump's playbook and it is worth fighting against ---



> 
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Re: [Marxism] Bernie Sanders ain't seen nothing yet

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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The fascinating thing about Trump style gaslighting is that Trumpistas will
believe ANYTHING that is thrown at ANY DEMOCRAT (remember the idea that
Bill Clinton had Vince Foster killed because he was having an affair with
Hilary? --- and that was before there was an internet!!) --- thus, whoever
is nominated will be subjected to lots of LIES and Half Truths that will
make them out to be --- you name it, communists, pedophiles, murderers,
drug dealers --- THUS< the "true" things they use against BERNIE (and the
lies they will build on them) will be PARALLEL to all the gaslighting that
they have prepared for every DEM---

Which means our side has only to accuse the other side of lying to
NEUTRALIZE it with the independents -- TRUMPIES will believe the worst
(remember the guy who shot up a pizza shop?) --- we won't get any whether
it's Amy, Mayor Peter or Mayor Mike --- Most independents now know that
Trump lies whenever his lips move 

BERNIE has the energy of the young which is a major plus in fighting Trump
...

On the other hand a brokered convention that steals it from Bernie may
guarantee four more years of Trump ...

**
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Re: [Marxism] 2020 - Sanders Takes Top Spot In Dem Quinnipiac University Connecticut

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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 John Reimann  wrote:

>
>
>
> As far as budget deficits: yes, they do matter... in almost all countries.
> The laws of the market dictate that if there is an increased supply of a
> currency and it does not correspond to an increase in production on which
> to spend that currency, then it will require more of that currency to
> exchange for products. Internationally it means that capital will tend to
> leave that currency. In other words, inflation.
>
> The US is in an exceptional position because of the role of the dollar in
> international trade and finance. The fact that to this day the US economy
> is still the strongest and most stable has made the dollar universally more
> desirable. By floating increased amounts of dollar-based debt, what the US
> is doing is making international capitalists pay for their spendthrift ways
> at home. That cannot continue forever, especially as US capitalism is being
> challenged by Chinese capitalism.
>
> Yes, debt does have to be repaid. Or, put another way, the US government
> does have to pay back those loans/bonds and T notes, or at least there has
> to be confidence that it will do so.


If the deficit (and debt) rise in step with production --- (a fairly stable
debt/GDP ratio) then according to John there seems to be no problem.  WHY,
then does he insist that the debt has to be repaid.   T-notes, bonds, etc
can be rolled over.   Dollars borrowed to fight the American Civil War have
been rolled over ever since ---same with the dollars borrowed to finance
WWII or LBJ's escalation of the Vietnam War --

The idea that inflation is an inevitable outcome of surges in deficits (and
therefore the total outstandiing National Debt) --- say between 1981 and
1990 --- is refuted by the experience of the 1970s inflations (very little
deficit spending in the US) and the 1980s conquest of inflation (in the
face of surging deficits).

Or what about the big run-up in deficit spending since 2008?

It is of course true that at some point if the deficit as a percentage of
GDP gets "TOO HIGH" international buyers of the nation's debt will stop
buying --

So what happens in that case -- well in Japan, the Japanese Central Bank
has bought up most of the gigantic national debt that has accumulated there
since the 1990s 

I am not an aficianado of MMT but the basic idea that a national government
that borrows its own currency can do so without damaging any long run
macro-economic processes appears to me to be borne out by history ...
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Re: [Marxism] Slavery and Anglo‐American capitalism revisited - WRIGHT - - The Economic History Review - Wiley Online Library

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I have known Gavin Wright for over 50 years -- I have respected his work
since I first adopted his book THE POLITICAL ECONOMY OF THE COTTON SOUTH
for my American Economic History classes back in 1980 ---

This review article is incredibly detailed and very convincing --- I
recommend it highly

Thank you, Louis for posting it  (I read a text of the lecture last
summer but this version has all the references  )
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Re: [Marxism] It’s Time for the Left to Build a Force Outside the Democratic Party | Left Voice

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I have read the book WE ARE INDIVISIBLE and believe that the STRUCTURE of
the indivisible movement(s) [plural!] forms the basis of what Mark
describes he tried to do in Ohio --- they are people who meet face to face
regularly --- their job is NOT just to run candidates - though they have
done that for sure -- but to PRESSURE people in office (and that includes
DEMS --- lots of local demonstrations are aimed at FORCING Dems to be more
resistant to the Republican agenda --- I would bet that is the reason the
so-called "moderate" Dems in the Senate voted for impeachment --- they
guessed that a vote against convicting Trump will hurt more than angering
Republicans --- Senator Doug JOnes clearly recognized that he owed his
election to black women and he needs them to tirelessly work for his
re-election if he is to stand a chance ---)

The book ends with a rather high quality democratic (small "d") reform
agenda --- doesn't come close to a truly radical economic and social agenda
but it is a way of channeling energy into something useful ---

I recommend that book highly -- it can be read in almost one sitting!
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Re: [Marxism] "Does it matter if Sanders or Biden is the next president?

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Krugman is wrong --- and that's why the ruling class is so scared of
Sanders --- the organization of populist pressure from the people will move
the needle --- even if a very little bit at first

But I also think on one level he's right -- both Biden and Sanders would
stop Trumpism in its tracks --- and maybe even open the door to doing
something about climate change ---

but if either wins, our need to struggle and fight for what we want will be
stronger than if Trump wins a second term (because if T wins, total despair
is probably the appropriate response --- )
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Re: [Marxism] The Party's Over: Bernie?s Last Dance With the Dems

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I was responding to a (rhetorical) question which implied that in EVERY
Presidential elections "we" have been "warned" about fascism --- I do
believe that there were "warnings" about fascism in those elections but
definitely not the majority of them beginnig in 1960 --- certainly many
people felt Goldwater was a fascist (and a trigger-happy warmonger) --- but
actually, with 20-20 hindsight, except for "W" in 2004 (with his "signing
statements" and the war in Iraq) those fears were probably groundless until
2016 ---

Yes -- TRUMP is different --- but there is only a SEGMENT of the ruling
class that is against him -- plenty are ready to publicly support him if
the "wrong" Democrat gets nominated --- after all, he gave them
deregulation, tax cuts and a right wing Judiciary to maintain the current
version of neo-liberalism without worry that an angry electorate will vote
them out 

Plenty of industrialists and bankers made their peace with Hitler -- just
as their Italian counterparts made peace with Mussolini 

To the extent that the ruling class is split, we have a chance for a
coalition broad enough to beat Trump 

That's why I support Bernie's promise to support whoever the DEMS nominate
--- and will figtht like a tiger for him (or Warren) against ruling class
betrayal if one of them surprises us and gets the nomination ...


_
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Re: [Marxism] The Party’s Over: Bernie’s Last Dance With the Dems - CounterPunch.org

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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1960, 1968, 1972, 1976, 1980, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2008, 2012

we worried about fascism with Goldwater, with Reagan in 1984, with "W" in
2004 and with Trump in 2016 ---

don't remember "worrying" about fascism in any of the other elections 

On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 6:44 PM Mark Lause  wrote:

> Show of hands here . . . does anybody remember an election where we
> haven't heard about the imminent threat of fascism?  :-)
>
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] The Party’s Over: Bernie’s Last Dance With the Dems - CounterPunch.org

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Spoiler alert -- what follows is a BROKEN RECORD ---

It is possible that every word in the article by Kavanaugh is correct and
his prediction of what Bernie would do after a brokered convention takes
the nomination away from him  (though I actually believe Warren is NOT
a DNC "liberal" ---she's a bit more radical than that and thereforescary to
the establishment --- but leave that aside!) --- is ALSO correct.

That leaves out the answer to the question that the writer neglects to
answer --- he says, when Bernie makes his peace with the Dems'
establishment all his supporters will have to leave the Democratic Party --

Will they have to vote for Howie Hawkins or stay home in November 2020 in
order to punish the Democratic Establishment?

The writer doesn't answer but that is of course the important question --

I've made it clear I think Trump's fascism and climate denialism is
QUALITATIVELY different from (and more dangerous than) ANY Democrat -- even
(gasp!) Bloomberg.

WIll not try to re-argue that - but merely note that the writer goes right
up to that question and does not (unless I read the piece wrong) answer
it.



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Re: [Marxism] The 1619 Project Devours Its Liberal Parents | Counter-Currents Publishing

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Yeah but this article is a bit much  is the 1619 PROJECT really so
sullied by "anti-white racialism"???   I don't remember feeling that when I
read the first issue of the NY Times Magazine ---
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Re: [Marxism] Wilmington, NC massacre and NY Times contemporary account

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I read the review of the book and am looking forward to reading it  the
Chesnutt novel THE MARROW OF TRADITION is an outstanding fictionalization
of the same events 

But the contemporaneous Times accounts makes it sound like the White
Populists and White Republicans had joined the Democrats in politically
running against the Black Republicans --- Perhaps I have read the history
wrong but I think the interracial Populist -Republican coalition was still
politically in control when the mob went on its rampage, killed 30 people
and AT GUNPOINT forced the still serving city officials to resign ...

I guess I'll have to check the book to see if the TIMES of those times was
already distorting history ---


-- 
>
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Re: [Marxism] » An Open Letter to the Green Party About 2020 Election Strategy

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Marx and Engels were writing in the world where the "historic mission" of
the Bourgeoisie was to develop the productive forces sufficiently to make
it possible for the curse of necessity to be banished from the earth --- a
development of the forces of production that made true civilization
(ultimately communism) possible.

Yet because socialism did not defeat capitalism in the 20th century,
capitalism having long outlived its ability to merely develop the
productive forces and having reached the stage of devouring the planet
itself we are faced with an entirely different set of issues

(I have argued -- and I know I get lots of flack for this -- that we got a
taste of the changing reality with the rise of fascism and its particular
German version, Naziism --- made possible IN PART by the inability of
communists and socialists to unite against it --- with the regional and
individual (for Jews, gypsies, gays, slavs, etc.) disasters ---)

That set of isssues involves planetary destruction --- Many argue that the
ONLY way to save the planet is to have a socialist revolution --- I argue
that that MIGHT be true but since such a change seems more unlikely than
getting the Democratic (and "democratic" with a small "d") to take the
necessary steps to save the planet, it's better to bet on the Dems vs.
Trump (and take your set of choices in the rest of the world as well) than
to remain pure ---

Don't think quoting Marx and Engels advances the argument given the current
set of challenges

BUT --- we are not talking about a "few reactionaries" -- we are talking
about fascism .

>
>
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] » An Open Letter to the Green Party About 2020 Election Strategy

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Sorry, Louis --- I agree 100% with the argument in this letter.   Working
for the Green Party Is taking the gamble that Trump is SO LITTLE "worse"
than the Democratic opponent (and let's grant the worst case scenario that
BIDEN --- or -- gasp (!!) BLOOMBERG --- is the Democratic nominee) would
not make the difference in terms of long term destruction of the planet via
global warming --- Let's assume that there is a 1% chance that Trump vs.
generic Dem will make the difference between the survival of the planet and
some (better than nothiing) amelioration --

A 1% chance of an INFINITE damage (do the simple math) is still INFINITE
damage ---

(you can turn that 1% probability into any low number, even .01% and
the result is still INFINITE damage --- that's what the concept of infinity
means)

Since it is IMPOSSIBLE to be 100% sure about the future, I think all of us
alive today (except young people who will live through disasters in the
next 50 years ALREADY BAKED IN no matter what is done in the next 10 - 20)
are being very selfishly arrogant about our predictability skills 
since we won;t live to see the damage we are inflicting on our
grandchildren (and young people all over the world) ---

I think at least having SOME humility about our ability to predict the
different futures created by a BIDEN (BLOOMBERG?) vs. TRUMP presidency --
(I won't even mention a Sanders or Warren presidency which I believe would
be a qualitatively positive difference ) requires us to err on the side
of caution and that means NO ONE should take any steps that will make a
second Trump term even a TINY BIT more probable --

The letter from these folks in this context makes cogent strong points and
they have certainly convinced me ---

(I am writing this assuming that Louis was referring to the letter signers
as "a bunch of idiots" rather than Green Party people contemplating running
in all states)



> (What a bunch of idiots.)
>
>
>
>
> We offer this open letter in hopes of prodding discussion of the issues
> raised
>
> Noam Chomsky, Bill Fletcher, Barbara Ehrenreich, Kathy Kelly, Ron
> Daniels, Leslie Cagan, Norman Solomon, Cynthia Peters, and Michael Albert
>
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Marxism] The Story of China’s Economic Rise Unfolds in Switzerland

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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But is China an IMPERIALIST capitalist country or a NATIONALIST capitalist
country ---

(one might argue that the Japanese model after 1945 was NATIONALIST in
focus or at most a "junior partner" in Asia to US imperialism --- South
Korea might be an even better example or Mexico beginning in the 1940s
)
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Re: [Marxism] the murderous coup of 1898 and the rise of white supremacy

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Charles Chesnutt's historical novel THE MARROW OF TRADITION is a
fictionalization of the Wilmington Massacre --- it is a pretty good read



> 
> 
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Re: [Marxism] British elections: "The Center Blows itself up"

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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The "dead skunk" in the middle of the road is a Waylon Jennings song (???)
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Re: [Marxism] The Good Soldier Svejk: or How to Stay Sane in an Insane World | Chris Guiton | Culture Matters

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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My father, writing under the name Lewis Allan collaborated with the Czech
American composer Robert Kurka on an OPERA based on the Hasek novel --
prompting me to read it in high school.   The opera has been performed from
time to time and dad was especially proud that it was translated into Czech
and performed there (even before Dubcek).

Don't know if there ever was a  recording made of it --- Norman Kelley
created the character for the City Center Opera company sometime in the
late 1950s 

Agree 1000% that the novel is worth re-reading for those of us who haven't
for a long time --- first time readers, you are in for a few belly-laughs
and sadness 



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Re: [Marxism] It’s Time for Activists to Stop Defending Dictators | OZY

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I am terribly disappointed to see Angela Davis captured by this binary set
of arguments ---

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 10:57 AM Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> https://www.ozy.com/news-and-politics/why-the-left-needs-to-stand-by-international-solidarity-through-its-actions/258611/
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[Marxism] IMPEACHMENT

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Dear Activists --- I dont know if the attached expanded version of a radio
commentary would be useful to any readers in arguing the issue of
impeachment  but I attach it here because it MIGHT be of use.   I
framed it for a radio audience that might include many people who have NOT
followed the arguments about impeachment.   (The article I reference at the
end of the piece makes the case for impeachment from a more left wing
position than the one I take in this commentary).

Solidarity, Mike
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Re: [Marxism] Trump Slammed For Insisting 'Killer' Real Estate Jews Will Back Him To Save Their Wealth | HuffPost

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I think it's more subtle than that --- Trump is ALSO playing to the
anti-semitism in his (white Christian) base --- They ASSUME Jews MUST be
"loyal" to Israel so Trump calling out Jews for being insufficiently
"loyal" to Israel fits in with the anti-semitic stereotypes that Jews ARE
people with "dual loyalties" ---

The analogy to white supremacists calling whites who are allies of peoples
of color "race traitors" would be akin to a black person using that attack
to play up the argument that ALL WHITES are racists  (a debate that
rages by the way from time to time )

But I also agree that Trump is pandering to the right-wing Jewish
electorate who demand totally loyalty to whatever the Israeli government
does 




> Literally all of the Jewish groups that responded to Trump (including
> Jewish Voice for Peace) missed the point (or purposely obscured it). The
> comments about Jews being disloyal had nothing to do with anti-Jewish
> bigotry -- and notably, they were about loyalty to Israel, not the United
> States. Accusing Jews of not being loyal to a *foreign state* is hardly
> playing into the trope of dual loyalty. These comments were aimed at
> Israel's victims. If anything they were appeals to Zionism and
> Islamophobia. They are analogous to white supremacist statements that
> whites who are insufficiently racist are "race traitors," etc.
>
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Re: [Marxism] China’s Renewed Coal Boom - CounterPunch.org

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THERE NEEDS TO BE A WORLD WIDE BOYCOTT OF CHINA and if possible CHINESE
PRODUCTS --

This coal boom is as bad (worse!) than anything Trump can do to the
environment 

The rest of the world has to respond vigorously  even if the current
CHiinese leadership is in the IGNORE EVERYTHING phase ...
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Re: [Marxism] The Left Shrugs at Impeachment

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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While I was strongly opposed to struggling for impeachment, I have to say
the hearings brought me around -- YES, the crimes of Trump agains the
environment, children, etc. should be articles of impeachment -- just like
the secret bombing of Cambodia should have been an article of Impeachment
for Nixon --- but let's try to remember one thing --- If Doug is right that
Trump needs to be defeated and defeated badly then we need a COALITION
which includes all the "national security Democrats" ---

Remember, the coalition that ended the Indochina wars were revolting GIs
and "war criminals for peace" who had turned against Johnson's and Nixon's
policies (late but not never).

We need that coalition to defeat Trump -- then we can try forcing Demcorats
to do the right thing ---
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Re: [Marxism] [pen-l] It's time to retire metrics like GDP. They don't measure everything that matters | Joseph Stiglitz | Opinion | The Guardian

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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The problem with Stiglitz's point (which is of course correct) is that when
we begin to "change" GDP there is little agreement on what should be added
and what should be taken away -- AND even if THAT agreement occurs there is
even LESS agreement on how to MEASURE what should be added and what should
be taken away 

This is one of the reasons that Noam Chomsky (for one) argues that
economics is NOT a science at all --- because too many things happen at
once that are HARD to measure and THEREFORE it is easy for quacks and
charlatans (see the supply side economists who insist that tax cuts on rich
people pay for themselves --- see "deficit hawks" who argue that federal
budget deficits bankrupt economies and therefore austerity is a necessity
--- both assertions the equivalence of asserting that the world is FLAT but
still heavily influential in journalism, politics and public opinion) --
easy for quacks and charlatans to still have their say and be respected
(even heavily rewarded) for spewing nonsensical bullshit 

So -- yes, Stiglitz is right but GOOD LUCK getting acceptable replacements
for GDP as a measure of economic health and well being 


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/24/metrics-gdp-economic-performance-social-progress
>
> --
>
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Re: [Marxism] Robert E. Lee was a traitor, not a hero!

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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This is no small issue.   My brother and I have spent over 40 years pushing
back against the accusation (made about a year ago by Trump himself) that
our parents, Ethel and Julius Rosenberg were "traitors."   As everyone
knows, treason is defined in the Constitution -- you must be "making war"
upon the United States giving aid and comfort to our [declared] enemies.
(that was why the NY Daily News in a fit of frustration demanded Congress
declare war on Vietnam so that the demonstrators could be arrested for
treason)

[our father, of course, was giving "aid and comfort" to AN ALLY during
World War II]

My brother has spoken publicly more than I and he has come up with a great
rhetorical question -- "What was the greatest act of treason in American
History?"   I've tried this a number of times and RARELY does someone think
of "the Civil War" --- yet it OBVIOUSLY is the greatest act of treason in
American history -- from the minute the cannon was fired on Fort Sumter
till Lee's surrender at Appomattox Courthouse, every Confederate soldier
was "making war upon the United States" and every Confederate politician
was "giving aid and comfort to [the US's] enemies"

We need to be constantly making that point ---especially to defenders of
Confederate Generals' Statues
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Re: [Marxism] Billionaires, Finance Capital and Superdelegates | Washington Babylon

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Given the attempt to sabotage Warren and/or Sanders (that's the key to the
NY Times articles -- especially on the OP ED page --- as well as the
"search" for a "new" candidate which is why Patrick and Bloomberg seem to
be entering the race I think it is essential that Bernie and Elizabeth make
a PACT  whoever is "ahead" in the delegate count by, say, the end of
the three SUPER-TUESDAYS must throw his/her support to the other, DIRECT
their delegates to vote for the other and make sure that ONE OR THE OTHER
is the nominee --- I've even heard the (unlikely) recommendation that the
second place progressive be the VP nominee --- (I know, two old White Folks
no matter how progressive and even though the "venn diagram" of supporters
does not overlap that much goes against conventional wisdom -- but in fact
"conventional wisdom" has been wrong so often ???) ---THE POINT IS --
there cannot be a Warren and a Sanders bloc at the convention making sure
that it is "brokered" by cancelling out each other on the first ballot ---
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Re: [Marxism] E.M. Forster's "A Passage to India": enduring art in changing times

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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And the one time I had tea with him, I asked him (naively) what he was
writing and he said, "I have written some pieces for the Observer (a Sunday
newspaper in Britain) about "reading I have liked" or something like
that.   Everyone thinks I have this novel sitting around waiting to be
published but (smiling) that's not true "

Of course he was sitting on Maurice.  (And I as a quite naive person those
days had NO IDEA he was gay )

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 6:53 AM Michael Meeropol  wrote:

> In December, 1965, I was an undergraduate at Cambridge University
> finishing up a two year BA degree after getting my US BA in 1964.   The
> first year at Cambridge, I lived at the college (KIng's)  and E.M.
> Forster's bedroom was right beneath my room --- That led to my meeting him
> and he even once invited me to tea.   He was an extremely nice, friendly,
> man --- but that's not what I want to share.   The idea that A PASSAGE TO
> INDIA is a timeless work of art was brought home to me in December of 1965
> when King's College hosted it's annual "Founders Day" dinner --- The
> Provost of the College, Noel Annan, gave the main speech and towards the
> end of it he said he wanted to highlight two "great Kingsmen" -- one who
> has long since left us and one who is still with us,   The first person he
> talked about Keynes --- I don't remember a thing he said about Keynes ---
> Then he turned to Forster (who it appears everyone called "Morgan" even
> though that was his middle name)   Here is Annan's quote -- spoke with
> INCREDIBLE FORCE as if he was concluding an argument before Parliament -
>
> "When all of us in this room are dust . And everything we have ever
> written is COVERED in dust . A Passage to India will be read and
> cherished ."
>
> Based on the article written over 50 years later, he (Annan) knew what he
> was talking about 
>
>
>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] E.M. Forster's "A Passage to India": enduring art in changing times

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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In December, 1965, I was an undergraduate at Cambridge University finishing
up a two year BA degree after getting my US BA in 1964.   The first year at
Cambridge, I lived at the college (KIng's)  and E.M. Forster's bedroom was
right beneath my room --- That led to my meeting him and he even once
invited me to tea.   He was an extremely nice, friendly, man --- but that's
not what I want to share.   The idea that A PASSAGE TO INDIA is a timeless
work of art was brought home to me in December of 1965 when King's College
hosted it's annual "Founders Day" dinner --- The Provost of the College,
Noel Annan, gave the main speech and towards the end of it he said he
wanted to highlight two "great Kingsmen" -- one who has long since left us
and one who is still with us,   The first person he talked about Keynes ---
I don't remember a thing he said about Keynes --- Then he turned to Forster
(who it appears everyone called "Morgan" even though that was his middle
name)   Here is Annan's quote -- spoke with INCREDIBLE FORCE as if he was
concluding an argument before Parliament -

"When all of us in this room are dust . And everything we have ever
written is COVERED in dust . A Passage to India will be read and
cherished ."

Based on the article written over 50 years later, he (Annan) knew what he
was talking about 



> 
> 
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[Marxism] follow up on whining billionaires

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Hi all --- I am pasting here a detailed response to Jeffrey Cooperman's
whining letter to Obama back in 2012 (I think he wrote it in 2012).   I
call it

*PITY THE POOR BILLIONAIRE*

*The following is a much expanded version of a commentary delivered by
Michael Meeropol over WAMC radio on October 31, 2012.*





Have you ever heard of Leon Cooperman?  He is a billionaire whose 1500 word
letter of complaint to President Obama has made him the darling of the top
one tenth of one percent.  In the NEW YORKER's October 8 (2012) issue he is
profiled in a fascinating article that quotes from his letter.  The article
is by Chrystia Freeland.  It is entitled Super-Rich Irony Why do
billionaires feel victimized by Obama?It can be accessed at:



http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/08/super-rich-irony





I will reproduce Cooperman’s letter in full with interspersed comments.



*COOPERMAN:*



It is with a great sense of disappointment that I write this. Like many
others, I hoped that your election would bring a salutary change of
direction to the country, despite what more than a few feared was an overly
aggressive social agenda. And I cannot credibly blame you for the economic
mess that you inherited, even if the policy response on your watch has been
profligate and largely ineffectual. (You did not, after all, invent TARP.)
I understand that when surrounded by cries of “the end of the world as we
know it is nigh,” even the strongest of minds may have a tendency to shoot
first and aim later in a well-intended effort to stave off the predicted
apocalypse.



*MEEROPOL:*



Did Cooperman oppose TARP?  It is very likely that without TARP a number of
important money-center banks would have gone bankrupt - perhaps taking down
Cooperman’s hedge fund with them.  I, myself, joined with a number of
libertarian economists in signing a petition to Congress urging rejection
of TARP.



However, what really is bothersome about the beginning of his letter is the
claim that President Obama’s policy response has been "profligate” and
"ineffective.”  That is totally false.  It was hardly profligate to spend
$787 billion in stimulus to plug what was a much bigger hole in total
aggregate demand as a result of the collapse of the housing bubble.  (Economist
Dean Baker estimated that the reduction in aggregate demand was at least
$1.2 trillion.)  TO the extent that it was ineffective it was because it
wasn’t large enough.  As far as it went, the best estimate is it prevented
the loss of anywhere from 1 to 3.5 million jobs.  To see some details, a
good place to start is a piece by Christina Romer in the New York Times
from October 20.  It is entitled, "The Fiscal Stimulus, Flawed But
Valuable.” and is available at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/business/how-the-fiscal-stimulus-helped-and-could-have-done-more.html





*COOPERMAN:*



But what I can justifiably hold you accountable for is your and your
minions’ role in setting the tenor of the rancorous debate now roiling us
that smacks of what so many have characterized as “class warfare.” Whether
this reflects your principled belief that the eternal divide between the
haves and have-nots is at the root of all the evils that afflict our
society or just a cynical, populist appeal to his base by a president
struggling in the polls is of little importance. What does matter is that
the divisive, polarizing tone of your rhetoric is cleaving a widening gulf,
at this point as much visceral as philosophical, between the downtrodden
and those best positioned to help them. It is a gulf that is at once
counterproductive and freighted with dangerous historical precedents. And
it is an approach to governing that owes more to desperate demagoguery than
your Administration should feel comfortable with.



*MEEROPOL:*



Here and in other places in the Cooperman letter, I can only scratch my
head.  What world is he observing?  Obama made a couple of comments about
the fact that the Wall Street people whose businesses had been saved by
TARP money should not be giving themselves lavish bonuses so soon after
they virtually destroyed the economy.  He has stuck to his campaign promise
of trying to get the top marginal tax rate back up to 39.6% (it had been
50% under Ronald Reagan until 1986).  What else has he done to stoke the
fires of class resentment?



*COOPERMAN:*



Just to be clear, while I have been richly rewarded by a life of hard work
(and a great deal of luck), I was not to-the-manor-born. My father was a
plumber who practiced his trade in the South Bronx after he and my mother
emigrated from Poland. I was the first member of my family to earn a
college degree. I 

Re: [Marxism] [pen-l] Capital in the 21st Century | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Thanks for the which celebrated the international triumph of neo-liberalism
---'
summary, Louis --- I think that ONE great value of this film is as an
antidote to the film that Yergin and Stanislaus put together after they
wrote this book THE COMMANDING HEIGHTS
At least reality has caught up (partially) with the intellectuals --
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Re: [Marxism] Blow to Amazon as Seattle socialist looks to have triumphed in key vote | US news | The Guardian

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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The thing that amazes me about the reaction of Amazon is that the actual
IMPACT of whatever the Seattle city council passes would be NEGLIGIBLE when
it comes to the giant's bottom line -- so what's going on?   I think it's
the same issue as the general "cry-baby' billionaires demonstrate.  They
don't just want to SUCCEED and become unbelievably wealthy -- they want to
be LOVED and PRAISED for doing it!!!   And when they don't get the praise
they throw tantrums like that guy Cooperman who wrote the famous letter to
Obama back in 2011 (year???) -- and who just came out with something
shorter attacking Elizabeth Warren ---

That seems to be why Bloomberg wants to get into the race 

I guess the human brain is beyond understanding no matter what the
Behavioral Psychologists assert (!!!)
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Re: [Marxism] Radical Commitments: The Life and Legacy of Angela Davis | Lydialyle Gibson | Harvard Magazine

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Great article --- Wish I had known about it in advance --

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 12:55 PM Kevin Lindemann and Cathy Campo via Marxism
 wrote:

>
>
>
> https://harvardmagazine.com/2019/10/radcliffe-institute-conference-on-activist-angela-davis
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Michael Bloomberg

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I just launched the following MOVE-ON petitiion --

(pretty tame but we need to stop the bastard in his tracks!)

https://petitions.moveon.org/create_finished.html?petition_id=146162


On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 12:17 PM Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> Michael Bloomberg, who has personal wealth in excess of 47 billion
> dollars (15 times that of Schultz), is also considering running for
> President in 2020 but as a Democrat, unlike Schultz. But like Schultz,
> he is kept up at night cowering under his blanket from the bogeyman
> Elizabeth Warren. With regard to her wealth tax, he told reporters: “We
> need a healthy economy, and we shouldn’t be embarrassed about our
> system. If you want to look at a system that’s non-capitalistic, just
> take a look at what was once, perhaps, the wealthiest country in the
> world, and today people are starving to death. It’s called Venezuela.”
>
> I doubt that Bloomberg ever read Karl Marx but anybody who has concluded
> that there was socialism in Venezuela must have been reading Jacobin
> rather than V. 1 of Capital.
>
> I worked on a project to automate the branch office of Salomon Brothers
> in London for Bloomberg back in 1975. When a co-worker learned that I
> was assigned to the project, she gave me a sour face. What’s wrong, I
> asked? She basically described the kind of person #MeToo would have
> protested back then if it had existed. On the trading floor at Salomon,
> there was a Latina secretary who used to deliver coffee to the traders.
> My co-worker, an African-American woman named Barrie, told me that as
> the secretary made her way across the floor,  he would yell out “Look at
> the tits on that broad” or words to that effect. Last September, the
> Atlantic reported on “‘I’d Do Her’: Mike Bloomberg and the Underbelly of
> #MeToo” that makes clear nothing has changed with him:
>
> From 1996 to 1997, four women filed sexual-harassment or
> discrimination
> suits against Bloomberg the company. One of the suits included the
> following allegation: When Sekiko Sakai Garrison, a sales representative
> at the company, told Mike Bloomberg she was pregnant, he replied, “Kill
> it!” (Bloomberg went on, she alleged, to mutter, “Great, No. 16”—a
> reference, her complaint said, to the 16 women at the company who were
> then pregnant.) To these allegations, Garrison added another one: Even
> prior to her pregnancy, she claimed, Bloomberg had antagonized her by
> making disparaging comments about her appearance and sexual
> desirability. “What, is the guy dumb and blind?” he is alleged to have
> said upon seeing her wearing an engagement ring. “What the hell is he
> marrying you for?”
>
>
> https://louisproyect.org/2019/02/05/the-dark-night-of-the-soulless-bourgeoisie/
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Re: [Marxism] Syria's Al-Assad: Trump, Openly Criminal, is the best US President we could Wish for

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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The statement by Assad (and I agree he's right about the "value" of Trump's
transparency even though he [Assad] is a mass murderer) does raise an
interesting question ---

1)  Is Trump --- due both to his idiocy AND to his ultra-nationalism --- an
UNWITTING agent of the withdrawal of the US from "the American Empire"??
2)  Think about it -- the policy of the US since the end of World War II
(if Larry Shoup is right it began before the US had even entered WW II) has
been to secure a WORLD WIDE "empire" (an "empire of so-called free trade" a
la the 19th century British version --- in Latin America and elsewhere
besides the official colonies) -- initially to protect long term interests
against the axis powers in the early years of WW II, then to protect the
"free world" from "godless communism [!!]" after WW II and then to keep it
expanding and "under control" after WW II --- and TRUMP has explicitly (if
not in practice due to the foot-dragging of the residual establishment that
still exists up and down the bureaucracy and the government in general)
repudiated that 

BUT HAS HE?Is he SO DUMB that whatever he wants, the American empire
keeps chugging along OR has he damaged it enough that --- "objectively" ---
he has begun a process that will mean the long run unravelling of the
American empire??

AND --- since we want desperately to stave off the domestic fascism that he
and his minions are in the process of creating, are we willing to "allow"
the restoration of a true American imperialism under whichever candidate
(outside of Bernie -- and MAYBE Warren) the Dems put up against him??

THis last question is why the first question if vitally important 

(I miss Bill Williams -- he had such great insights )

:https://www.juancole.com/2019/11/syrias-criminal-president.html
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Re: [Marxism] Sandinista

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Stalin and Mao both started off as real revolutionaries --- getting power
corrupted both terribly --- (think Stalin was worse! --- despite winning WW
II)

Very few behave as honorably as Nelson Mandela -- we might even count
George Washington as a "good guy" -- he refused to become a "king" and
accept a THIRD term 

That's why the anarchists are probably right!
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Re: [Marxism] YPG thanks Trump and Putin

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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Don't think the PYD/YPG looked for alliances with Russia and Assad --- they
did ally with the US --- which actually won them (temporary) autonomy
they are in Russian and Assad arms so as not to be slaughtered by the
Turks 

Don't think it's about being "smart" at all --- I started this thing by
suggestiing they had no choice --- (Confronted by a robber with a gun who
says, "your money or your life" on has a "choice" to get killed --- not a
"real" choice 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 6:49 AM RKOB via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote

:But this suggests that the Syrian revolutionaries should have been as
"smart" as the PYD/YPG and look for alliances with the US, Russia (and
Assad?). I can't see a different conclusion from what you suggest.>> sorry
-- I don't know enough about all three of the groups you've described> ---
( but what little I know of the Rohinyas is they are being murdered in>
large numbers )>> and what you say about the Syrian people virtually proves
my point -- they> are being murdered in the hundreds of thousands by Assad
with no recourse-- 


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Re: [Marxism] YPG thanks Trump and Putin

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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sorry -- I don't know enough about all three of the groups you've described
--- ( but what little I know of the Rohinyas is they are being murdered in
large numbers )

and what you say about the Syrian people virtually proves my point -- they
are being murdered in the hundreds of thousands by Assad with no recourse
-- 

There is a difficult turning point when (say the Jews of Germany)a group
needs to "go down fighting" knowing they will all die ---  Obviously, the
Kurds have had generations of trying to survive in a very difficult world
 hard for us on the outside to make judgements 

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 6:11 AM RKOB via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

Do you suggest that so many other national liberation movements in the
world which also defend their people have qualitatively different problems?
Have you heard about the Tamils? The Rohinyas, Kashmir, etc.? And what's
about the Syrian peope where Assad murdered hundreds of thousands? But
there are not many in the world (or history) who kneep before US and
Russian imperialism

 





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Re: [Marxism] YPG thanks Trump and Putin

[Michael Meeropol via Marxism]

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I DON'T KNOW _-- I mean we're talking about trying to save the lives of
thousands of people 



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