Re: [Marxism] Lenin's Tomb on Charlie Hebdo
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Jan 7, 2015, at 3:23 PM, John Obrien via Marxism wrote: Opposing religion and religious fanatics - is not racist to many atheists as myself. Why not be open and state you favor Islam, or some other religious superstition and why you favor censorship of atheists on a Marxist List? Who wrote: Religion is the opium of the people Ah, but opium, used right, is a very valuable drug! _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Lenin's Tomb on Charlie Hebdo
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Jan 7, 2015, at 10:42 AM, Ed George via Marxism wrote: http://www.leninology.co.uk/2015/01/charlie-hebdo.html Seymour makes polite noises deploring mass murder--and then slanders the victims as racist because...because...oh, because they are disrespectful of a reactionary ideology that, though it is professedly a RELIGION, he identifies as a race. Well, Seymour, if Charlie Hebdo is racist then these allahu-akbar-ist Freedom Fighters are antiracists just like you are. So your slander of their victims explains itself, as an act of antiracist solidarity. Shane Mage L'après-vie, c'est une auberge espagnole. L'on n'y trouve que ce qu'on a apporté. Bardo Thodol _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Lenin's Tomb on Charlie Hebdo
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Jan 7, 2015, at 12:49 PM, Daniel Lindvall wrote: Rejection of religious fundamentalism may or may not be a ”left position (depending on what secret definition you have of the meaningless word left) but to call it race baiting is to solidarize with the allahu-akbarist Nazis Yes, but these caricatures (at least the Mohamed ones) aren’t aimed at ”religious fundamentalism” but Islam in general. And given the dominance of Islam in the Arab world such caricatures can’t really be understood as anything else than a more or less blanket condemnation aimed at Arab culture Condemnation of ANY visual depiction of a semi-deified fetish object (iconoclasm) like a Prophet or Savior is THE primary exemplar of ”religious fundamentalism.” What do you mean Arab World or Arab Culture? There are no such things!! This is the logic: by equating a form of *superstitio* to a whole race (the Arabs) you make any satire of that *superstitio* into a form of racism, enabling you to solidarize with the allahu- akbarist Freedom Fighters (using disagreement with their methods as alibi) by slandering their victims. Shane Mage L'après-vie, c'est une auberge espagnole. L'on n'y trouve que ce qu'on a apporté. Bardo Thodol _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Special to The Los Angeles Times: Political Cartooning is Almost Worth Dying For
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Re: [Marxism] Lenin's Tomb on Charlie Hebdo
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Jan 7, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Tristan Sloughter via Marxism wrote: the cartoons depict a racist caricature. By accusing the victims of the allahu-akbarist scum as racists you are solidarizing yourself with the Freedom Fighter Nazis. It is beyond dumbfounding how someone can not see that when it is so clearly in front of their face. Indeed! Shane Mage L'après-vie, c'est une auberge espagnole. L'on n'y trouve que ce qu'on a apporté. Bardo Thodol _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Lenin's Tomb on Charlie Hebdo
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Jan 7, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Lüko Willms via Marxism wrote: on Mittwoch, 7. Januar 2015 at 19:09, Charles Faulkner (Lacenaire!) via Marxism wrote: i question charlie hebdo's motivations in publishing the cartoons and subsequently any claim they have to being of the left. They just enjoy to make fun of other people, and to humiliate them. They do (or should we say now did?) know that sex sells, and used it, and they also knew that making fun of the victims of French colonialism sells. Another leftist jumps to slander the victims and thus to justify and solidarize himself with the allahu-akbarists. Shane Mage L'après-vie, c'est une auberge espagnole. L'on n'y trouve que ce qu'on a apporté. Bardo Thodol _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Lenin's Tomb on Charlie Hebdo
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Jan 7, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Charles Faulkner via Marxism wrote: aside from the platitudes to decency in protecting free speech, as richard pointed out, what claim does such a paper have to being left when it engages in rather obvious race baiting? Rejection of religious fundamentalism may or may not be a left position (depending on what secret definition you have of the meaningless word left) but to call it race baiting is to solidarize with the allahu-akbarist Nazis. am i just preaching to the choir? to the choir, no doubt, in the synagogue of Satan. Shane Mage L'après-vie, c'est une auberge espagnole. L'on n'y trouve que ce qu'on a apporté. Bardo Thodol _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Why String Theory Still Offers Hope We Can Unify Physics | Science | Smithsonian
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Dec 24, 2014, at 7:53 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: (You'll note the reference to the title of the new Stephen Hawking biopic. What the biopic lacks is exactly the intellectual substance of this fascinating article that actually makes string theory understandable.) If you understand this gibberish, please explain it: ...String theory’s equations require that the universe has extra dimensions beyond the three of everyday experience—left/right, back/ forth and up/down... Here everyday experience is grossly falsified-- we (ie., every sentient being) experience the universe in FOUR, not three, dimensions: left/right, back/forth, up/down, BEFORE/AFTER. Marxists (and Keynesians, and other realistic approaches to economics) ridicule neoclassical economics for leaving time out of its equations. How much less intelligible is a theoretical physics in which time is not an absolutely fundamental dimension of the experienced universe? String theorists pounced on an idea first developed in the early years of the 20th century. Back then, theorists realized that there might be two kinds of spatial dimensions: those that are large and extended, which we directly experience, and others that are tiny and tightly wound, too small for even our most refined equipment to reveal. And here language is twisted in a way that makes itself into absolutely incomprehensible gibberish: dimensions are nothing but the metric of extensive measurement--we estimate up/down along one axis of our measurement matrix, before/after along another, etc. To speak of a dimension as being large or tiny, let alone extended or twisted presupposes yet other dimensions transcending all possible experience in terms of which those larger and tiny dimensions have been measured. Compared to this it makes perfect sense that God is both One and Three. And then what could make less sense than to say dimensions which we directly experience when nobody--no sentient being--has ever directly experienced a dimension? What is experienced, what alone can be experienced, is a process of constantly changing things presented to us as a complex that our perceptual apparatus organizes, as guide to living practice, within that four-dimensional structure of experienced reality. Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Why String Theory Still Offers Hope We Can Unify Physics | Science | Smithsonian
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Dec 24, 2014, at 11:39 AM, Les Schaffer via Marxism wrote: its possible to say something interesting about a dimension without the existence of a higher dimensional embedding space. watch this: walking a thousand feet east, or a thousand feet north seems very different from climbing a thousand feet up stairs. for the life of me i can't figure out why. this says something--totally uninteresting--about your personal physiological sensations. What it says about dimensions for the life of me i can't figure out. And then what could make less sense than to say dimensions which we directly experience when nobody--no sentient being--has ever directly experienced a dimension? What is experienced, what alone can be experienced, is a process of constantly changing things presented to us as a complex that our perceptual apparatus organizes, as guide to living practice, within that four-dimensional structure of experienced reality. in other words, we don't directly experience time, space, mass, much less dimensions... Obviously. Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Dialectics, pt 6: Dynamics of human origins
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Dec 20, 2014, at 2:31 PM, Charlie via Marxism wrote: Dick Levins wrote: Another error of Engels was the assumption that the desire to confirm paternity was a reason for monogamy, as if the desire to confirm paternity was somehow a natural trait that required no explanation. Engels wrote: It [monogamy] is based on the supremacy of the man, the express purpose being to produce children of undisputed paternity; such paternity is demanded because these children are later to come into their father's property as his natural heirs. Engels, The Origin..., chapter 4 http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/ ch02d.htm Whether Engels' explanation is factually correct or not, he clearly takes monogamy to be a historical institution that arises with men having private property. It does not seem that Engels treats it as the result of a natural (biological) desire. Lifelong monogamous mating is standard among numerous mammalian and avian species, but it seems to be nonexistent among primates--except for humans in their very recent history. So Engels was clearly correct in describing it as an artefact of class (organized on the basis of property) society. Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Obama’s historic shift on U.S.-Cuba relations
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Dec 19, 2014, at 9:34 AM, Ken Hiebert via Marxism wrote: I have been eagerly looking for comment in the left press. Here is the first that has come my way. \ The CPUSA house organ has as much right to be considered left press as does the NYTimes or the late New Republic. Obama did nothing that he couldn't have done five years and eleven months ago. He did it now because failure to do so would have led directly to his spectacular humiliation at the OAS Panama meeting, and he needed the political cover of the Papacy to do even that! This is...not a moment to damn with faint praise. Let us all remember December 17, 2014, as a day when that long moral arc of history bent towards justice. Thank you, President Obama... Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Pearls of wisdom from the Isaac Deutscher Prize winner
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Dec 13, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: Great topic sentence, Louis. First time I've ever seen pearls used to denote turds! Socialism still makes China tick The missing element in all this is Marxism. China remains a socialist country, with the Communist Party effectively operating a one-party state with Marxist values... _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Two views on Podemos
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Nov 30, 2014, at 11:42 AM, David P Á via Marxism wrote: ...there's a perfectly functional communist party on offer... ...Podemos starts with an advantage that contains its own disadvantage: it has no history. There is no organisation, no past errors to apologise for or explain away... What has the PCE done to apologize for its long, long, Stalinist history, especially its counterrevolutionary role in 1936-1938 (which cannot possibly be explained away)? Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: The probability of human existence, calculated - Salon.com
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Nov 24, 2014, at 10:17 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote http://www.salon.com/2014/11/23/the_probability_of_human_existence_calculated_partner/ Idiots. Speculating about the probability of a particular event occurring in a [virtually] infinite population of events (the universe) about which [virtually] nothing is known. The only things we know about the universe are that we and our world exist--and that even were all humans (on the model of so many scientists) idiotic mechanisms devoid of consciousness, our world nevertheless (despite all our human efforts) still contains huge numbers of highly intelligent conscious organisms (cats, beavers, dolphins, bees, etc., etc.,). If the rest of the universe is devoid of life and consciousness, the likely explanation would be that it somehow everywhere inevitably generates dominant human-like specieses and therefore the rapid and systematic eradication of life and consciousness. Shane Mage L'après-vie, c'est une auberge espagnole. L'on n'y trouve que ce qu'on a apporté. Bardo Thodol _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] NYRB review of Naomi Klein
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Nov 20, 2014, at 11:30 PM, Joseph Green via Marxism wrote: Klein prettifies the carbon tax, and does not recognize it as a market measure, no better than the rest of them; This is the purest ultraleft idiocy. As I have pointed out--and as Green absurdly ignores--the capitalism system is not about to be overthrown by a proletarian revolution, not in less time than we have before the human environment is irrevocably destroyed. Our struggle therefore absolutely must center on demands for effective measures operative within the logic of the capitalist system. Effective carbon taxation is not merely better--it is the ONLY way to make the intensification of pollution so UNPROFITABLE that the capitalist market totally abandons it and is forced, by its own logic, to recognize and act on the real, and ever-increasing, profitability of investment in the whole range of maturing carbon-eliminating energy technologies. Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] NYRB review of Naomi Klein
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Nov 20, 2014, at 4:42 PM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote: Here’s a link to another review of Naomi Klein’s This Changes Everything, this one by Elizabeth Kolbert...Kolbert thinks Klein’s various proposals to resolve the crisis through “managed degrowth” and “regeneration” are too vague to be meaningful or, like carbon taxes, “hardly seem to challenge the basic logic of capitalism.” This, despite the fact that Klein is avowedly anticapitalist, although her rhetorical flourishes about “changing everything” though a global environment movement are arguably aimed not at the system’s overthrow... http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/dec/04/can-climate-change-cure-capitalism/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+nybooks+%28The+New+York+Review+of+Books%29 Not aimed at the system's overthrow? Such criticism is beyond stupid, ultra-left of ultra-left. Greenhouse-gas-fueled economic growth, still proceeding apace, threatens imminent collapse of human civilization, perhaps even of the (last unextinct) human species itself. The overthrow of the capitalist system (ie., the worldwide proletarian democratic communist revolution) is at best somewhere far beyond the horizon of present historical possibility. Therefore any measures to stop increasing and then start reducing atmospheric carbon gasses can only be effective not by challenging but by OPERATING IN CONFORMITY WITH the basic logic of capitalism.” That is why the central program of any green, socialist, working class, even progressive political movement has to be the immediate introduction of a comprehensive, substantial, and annually increasing carbon tax-- taxation that would make all forms of carbon pollution, starting with the worst like coal and tar-sands, uneconomic (ie., unprofitable, loss- making) synchronically with the concomitant increase of increasingly profitable pollution-control technologies and pollution free (mainly solar and aeolian) energy supplies, an increase that is (in the latter case) inherently unlimited. This must be central to the Hawkins/Jones- style Green presidential campaign that we have to envisage for 2016. Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Moscow threatens Kyiv with war for refusal to fund Donbas | EUROMAIDAN PRESS | News and Opinion from Across Ukraine
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:45 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: (This article highlights the economic woes that Russia bought into when it backed the Donbas separatists. Kyiv threatens to stop funding pensions in the breakaway region, which is what you would expect given the state of war. But Russia does not seem willing to foot the bill for its annexed territory.) How delusional can you get? To claim that Russia has annexed Donbas approaches the list's established abysmal standards. And, by the way, pensions are debts of the government to individual pensioners. They are due whether the pensioner lives in Kiev, Lugansk, Sebastopol, Moscow, Paris, or New York City. The Kiev authorities cannot refuse to honor those established debts without simultaneously refuting their own claim to be the legitimate governing state authority of the Ukraine (or at least have declared bankruoptcy and been granted protection by a tribunal with recognized jurisdictiojn. And just who is it who has decreed that a state of war exists in the Ukraine? Shane Mage L'après-vie, c'est une auberge espagnole. L'on n'y trouve que ce qu'on a apporté. Bardo Thodol _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Another milestone in the restoration of Chinese capitalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Nov 17, 2014, at 1:15 PM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote: China took another major step today to restoring full-fledged capitalism, opening its Shanghai stock exchange to all foreign investors and allowing its own citizens to buy overseas assets on the Hong Kong bourse. What restoration? China has been capitalist for a long time, and since 1949 its form of capitalism has been monopoly state capitalism in Stalinist mode (ie., state capitalism calling itself socialism). And since the Deng reforms it has moved steadily into convergence with its non-socialist Western homologue, state monopoly capitalism. Shane Mage scientific discovery is basically recognition of obvious realities that self-interest or ideology have kept everybody from paying attention to _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Space News: Philae#FaIL
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Philae Lander @Philae2014 · 24m24 minutes ago I’m on the surface but my harpoons did not fire. My team is hard at work now trying to determine why. #CometLanding The harpoons were designed to anchor into a Dirty Snowball, as the comet was known to be accor4ding to the Orthodox model of solar- system formation. Since that model is pure fantasy, Philae's harpoons could not anchor into the rocky surface of the asteroid fragment that thjis comet. like all the otherds, actually is. Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Space News: Philae#FaiL
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Nov 12, 2014, at 12:35 PM, Shane Mage via Marxism wrote: Philae Lander @Philae2014 · 24m24 minutes ago I’m on the surface but my harpoons did not fire. My team is hard at work now trying to determine why. #CometLanding Three hours later, and after all that hard work all we have from Darmstadt is--silence! The harpoons were designed to anchor into a Dirty Snowball, as the comet was known to be according to the Orthodox model of solar- system formation. Since that model is pure fantasy, Philae's harpoons could not anchor into the rocky surface of the asteroid fragment that this comet. like all the others, actually is. Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/shmage%40pipeline.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: America just took a wrong turn. It's time to take a hard left | Howie Hawkins | Comment is free | The Guardian
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Nov 6, 2014, at 8:35 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/06/election-green-promise-2016 I recently joined Kshama Sawant, the independent socialist elected to the Seattle city council last year, in calling for meetings across the country to begin laying the foundation for a strong left challenge to both parties of big business in 2016. Based on his great performance in the just-concluded campaign, I hesitate not to say that Howie Hawkins is the best possibility to head the challenge as our presidential candidate--certainly not a clown like Cornel West or a mushhead like Chris Hedges (both of them God- Pushers). Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] How the Democrats died for their principles
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/11/midterms-2014-red-wedding-democrats.html _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Stalinist-Trotskyist bromance
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Nov 5, 2014, at 9:41 AM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote: Actually Trotsky was focused on the contradiction between the forces and relations of production (and associated norms of distribution), i.e. how the inadequacy of the former hamstrung efforts to move beyond bourgeois forms of the latter Actually, no bolshevik (including Koba-Stalin, whose Okhranik/Petrine program for the reconstruction of the Empire was still carefully concealed)) could say that the productive forces (foremost among which was the abysmally low cultural/technical level of the laboring masses) inherited from the Czars were remotely close to the requisites for development of a socialist society. Thus the total unanimity on the impossibility of constructing socialism in a single backward country like Russia. In 1918 Lenin went so far as to state that for us, state capitalism would be a step forward. And by 1921, after three years of indescribably devastating civil war, soviet Russia's productive forces had deteriorated (deaths, destructions, emigration of the technical intelligentsia) far beyond their already miserable level. For the bolsheviks the only hope for socialism in Russia was their incorporation into a European soviet republic. Nevertheless, thanks to the enormous cultural impetus of the proletarian revolution, soviet Russia under NEP was in the 1920's able to advance as far as a relatively democratic state capitalism that equalled and even exceeded pre-revolution levels of economic output--a mixed economy with state- owned industrial trusts and banks alongside private businesses, commodity production for domestic and world markets, peasant-owned agriculture, and generalization of waged labor with real trade unions defending the rights of workers. Thus along with the political relations characteristic of a bureaucratically-deformed workers' state (as Lenin characterized the USSR in 1922) went a set of entirely capitalist relations of *production*. As the bureaucratic deformation of the bolshevik regime proceeded, thanks to the maleficent organizational genius of Koba-Stalin and the political incompetence of old bolsheviks like Zinoviev and Bukharin, by 1929 the Stalinist counterrevolution was able to emerge into full daylight. Stalin sent NEP To the Devil with his total forced collectivization of agriculture and breakneck industrialization. Over the next nine years the necks broken included virtually all the remaining bolshevik cadre together with millions of workers, peasants, artists, writers, and technicians. What remained at the end of the purges (when Yezhov was liquidated and Beria took over the secret police establishment from which the present Czar, Putin, was to emerge) was now a *totalitarian* state-capitalist regime (as Trotsky stated, Stalinism and Fascism are symmetrical phenomena) with a new bureaucratic ruling class. The state-capitalist relations of production that had existed under NEP were changed *in form* to those characteristic of fascism--wage labor, commodity production, managerial absolutism, all enforced by unremitting police-state repression. The resulting monstrosity retained from soviet Russia only the brand name USSR (as a vampire state it had as much right to that brand as any of the Undead has to his predecease name). When Trotsky was writing The Revolution Betrayed it was already a stretch to believe, as he did, in the possibility of a revived bolshevism. By the time it had been published that hope was tenuous in the extreme. Two years later it had been definitively murdered. But, entirely isolated from any contact inside Russia, Trotsky still refused to give up that dream. That the inevitable defeat of Nazi Germany in the coming war might lead to a regeneration of the Russian workers' state, this was the slender reed to which he clung when he wrote in 1939 that The Nature of the Soviet Union is not yet Decided by History. Alas, the Decision had already been made. The Stalinist state-capitalist form of Czarism, still with us today in somewhat more Westernized form, had become unshakeable. By playing word games with phrases like productive forces, property forms, and production relations the Orthodox managed for fifty years to pretend that under the Stalinist USSR brand they were buying a Degenerated Workers' State. Some pretend that Russia even now is a workers' state! In the 1950s-1960's the dominant faction of the Fourth International even expected a socialist revolution to be introduced to western Europe through invasion by
Re: [Marxism] Furuhashi posts dodgy tweets
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Nov 4, 2014, at 9:05 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: ...when an Israeli minister of defense says that the FSA should be supported, that has about as much significance as Barack Obama saying that every American should have a job or me telling my neighbor to have a nice day... None are so deaf as those who refuse to hear. When an authoritative figure, in position to give full weight to his words, says an insurgency next door should be supported, that is as close as such a person will ever come to admitting that it IS being supported (Israel in fact is the ONLY foreign country to attack the armed forces of the Syrian regime, claiming as cover self-defense over the Golan). Among others in the crowd who agree that the FSA should be supported are not only Obama and the Israeli government--they include Cameron, Hollande, Erzogan, and (as cover for their active support to various jihadi factions) all the crowned heads and dictators around the Gulf. And who else? Shane Mage Space may appear empty -- a soundless vacuum, but it's not an absolute void. It flows with electric activity that is not visible to our eyes. (NASA Goddard Space Flight Center) _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: 5 Things About Slavery You Probably Didn't Learn In Social Studies: A Short Guide To 'The Half Has Never Been Told'
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Oct 30, 2014, at 11:44 AM, Mark Lause via Marxism wrote: I certainly don't want to badger you, but only to caution against reading the outcome into cause . . . and to suggest that your assessment understates the legitimate interests of the Tejanos who had a very understandable interest in seeking independence from Mexico, particularly under that regime. But what legitimacy was there to begin with in the Tejanos (Yankee Conquistadores) presence in Texas? And ain't separating outcome from (pretextural) cause merely denying agency to the White Slavers and their struggle? Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Hard-boiled dectives: Dashiell Hammet
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Oct 26, 2014, at 1:57 PM, Anthony Boynton via Marxism wrote: The early hard-boled deteective fiction of the 1920's... Tony Hillerman... By what stretch can anyone come up with a resemblance between Joe Leaphorn and the semi-criminal White detectives of the Hammets and Chandlers? Shane Mage L'après-vie, c'est une auberge espagnole. L'on n'y trouve que ce qu'on a apporté. Bardo Thodol _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Palestinians divided over contact with Israelis
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Oct 13, 2014, at 6:10 AM, Joseph Catron via Marxism wrote: Unfortunately, this repeats the canard that the debate is over Israeli Jews. In fact, Palestinian and Arab anti-normalization efforts concern themselves with all Israeli nationality holders that are non-Arab, Since Arab is a linguistic, not racial, category, does this exclude from the non-Arab category the population of Oriental Jews, whose historical mother tongue is Arabic? Shane Mage L'après-vie, c'est une auberge espagnole. L'on n'y trouve que ce qu'on a apporté. Bardo Thodol Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] UNC professor says black holes can't exist
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Of course they can't. A *point* has no dimensions and so occupies no space--it therefore cannot exist in physical space. A single point in space is a contradiction in terms. Unfortunately her alternative theory (as described in Wikipedia)--that the data used to hypothesize those impossible black holes is explained by the gravitational attraction of some other universes within a multiverse that includes our own cosmos--is an even more absurd violation of Occam's Razor than the establishment big-bang-black-hole-dark matter-dark energy cosmology since to get rid of one impossible set of unobservable entities she has to multiply them into a vast congeries of even less observable entities, namely all the diverse universes making up her multiverse. How much simpler and more scientifically fruitful ius the electric-universe approach, adumbrated by Herakletos and developed in our times by such scientific giants as Khristian Birkeland and Hannes Alfven! by WNCN Staff A physics professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill says she has proof that black holes can't exist. The university said that by merging two seemingly conflicting theories, Laura Mersini-Houghton has mathematically proven black holes can never come into being in the first place. Black holes are thought to be the densist matter in the universe. I'm still not over the shock, said Mersini-Houghton, a professor in the College of Arts and Sciences. We've been studying this problem for a more than 50 years and this solution gives us a lot to think about. Click Here to read Mersini-Houghton's study Black holes have long thought to be formed when a massive star collapsed under its own gravity to a single point in space known as a singularity. An event horizon would then surround the singularity, creating a black hole whose gravitational pull is so strong that nothing can escape it. Using quantum mechanics, renowned physicist Stephen Hawking hypothesized in 1974 that black holes emit radiation. Mersini-Houghton's theory combine Hawking's radiation theory with a fundamental law of quantum theory that states no information from the universe can ever disappear. Mersini-Houghton agrees with Hawking in that a star's collapse gives off radiation; but by giving off radiation, she said the star also sheds mass to the point that it no longer has the density to become a black hole. Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos ___ http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] UNC professor says black holes can't exist
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Oct 8, 2014, at 5:35 PM, Jeff via Marxism wrote: Perhaps Shane should share his wisdom with many hundreds of astronomers who are busy observing black holes... It is, of course, impossible to OBSERVE something that by definition emits and can emit no radiation of any sort. Well maybe not for Jeff and the others who claim to observe something not abhorrent in armed insurgent groups professing various varieties of Salafist Islam and armed and financed (with US weapons and US dollars) by Biden's allies like the Al-Sauds, Qataris, Emirates, and Turks. On Wed, October 8, 2014 22:38, Shane Mage via Marxism wrote: Of course they can't. A *point* has no dimensions and so occupies no space--it therefore cannot exist in physical space. A single point in space is a contradiction in terms. Shane Mage scientific discovery is basically recognition of obvious realities that self-interest or ideology have kept everybody from paying attention to Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Truth (aka gaffe) from Joe Biden
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == We have seen here repeated claims that the rrrevolutionaries in Syria never received any significant outside assistance. So when someone with total access to the truth slips up and blurts it out, we might as well take notice: The latest furor started after he spoke at Harvard University’s John F. Kennedy School of Government last Thursday. Mr. Biden said American allies including Turkey, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates had extended unconditional financial and logistical support to Sunni fighters trying to oust the Syrian government of President Bashar al- Assad. 'Our allies poured hundreds of millions of dollars and tens of thousands of tons of weapons into anyone who would fight against al- Assad,' he said, including jihadists planning to join the Nusra Front and Al Qaeda. Mr. Biden also confided that Turkey’s “President Erdogan told me — he is an old friend — ‘You were right. We let too many people through.' (NYT, 7/10) Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: The Hong Kong protests and the conspiracist left | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Oct 2, 2014, at 4:59 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: http://louisproyect.org/2014/10/02/the-hong-kong-protests-and-the-conspiracist-left/ Buried deep inside a NY Times article, you get... An example of the degeneracy of what was once a competently edited newspaper: ...it’s an ancient culture. A century’s old mix... (this for centuries-old) Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] How Obama is serving Baathist aims
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Sep 26, 2014, at 9:28 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: (This article lays it all out... ...Mr. Obama’s Persian Gulf allies, whom he has pointed to as crucial to the credibility of the air campaign, have expressed displeasure with the United States’ reluctance to go after Mr. Assad directly. For years, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have pressed Washington to join the fight to oust the Syrian president... Right. Obama just is too wimpy to join these revolutionaries and do the stupid things they want him to do. But over the Golan, Mr. Netanyahu has thrown his military into their campaign, so those revolutionaries are not without non-wimpy allies! Shane Mage scientific discovery is basically recognition of obvious realities that self-interest or ideology have kept everybody from paying attention to Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Bill Black: The New York Times Claims Opposing EU Austerity Leads to Anti-Semitism
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/09/the-new-york-times-claims-that-opposing-eu-austerity-leads-to-anti-semitism.html Yves here. This post is more important than it might seem. I find it is taking more and more effort to navigate through the hall of mirrors of propagandizing, particularly in the geopolitical realm. Thus it is critical to read news on two levels: its content, and how it is presented, as in how it is framed, what experts are cited, what issues are buried or omitted. Living with all Pravda, all the time, is intellectually taxing, at least if you care to understand what is really going on. Black presents a comparatively simple yet pernicious example of distortion, that of how the New York Times is promoting austerity by depicting opposition as stoking anti-Semitism. This echoes the manner in which anti-globalists were demonized as being violent and retrograde as a result of some protests getting out of hand. The trope here is “anti-orthodoxy = results right-thinking people agree is bad” Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Workers in Russia protest Moscow's war on Ukraine
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Sep 21, 2014, at 1:49 PM, jay rothermel via Marxism wrote: NB: Workers in Russia protest Moscow's war on Ukraine. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/09/russians-stage-anti-ukraine-war-moscow-201492114729171223.html The article cited says precisely nothing to suggest that the demonstrators were Workers, it shows them carrying Ukrainian flags (how can one be antiwar while carrying the banner of one party to that war?), and parrots the governmental and corporate-media phrase Kiev and the West. But we do learn that the rulers of Qatar (funders of Al Nusra) are glad to support antiwar demonstrations--in Moscow! Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Workers in Russia protest Moscow's war on Ukraine
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Sep 21, 2014, at 1:49 PM, jay rothermel via Marxism wrote: NB: Workers in Russia protest Moscow's war on Ukraine. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/09/russians-stage-anti-ukraine-war-moscow-201492114729171223.html The article cited says precisely nothing to suggest that the demonstrators were Workers, it shows them carrying Ukrainian flags (how can one be antiwar while carrying the banner of one party to that war?), and parrots the governmental and corporate-media phrase Kiev and the West. But we do learn that the rulers of Qatar (funders of Al Nusra) are glad to support antiwar demonstrations--in Moscow! Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Workers in Russia protest Moscow's war on Ukraine
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Sep 21, 2014, at 1:49 PM, jay rothermel via Marxism wrote: NB: Workers in Russia protest Moscow's war on Ukraine. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/09/russians-stage-anti-ukraine-war-moscow-201492114729171223.html The article cited says precisely nothing to suggest that the demonstrators were Workers, it shows them carrying Ukrainian flags (how can one be antiwar while carrying the banner of one party to that war?), and parrots the governmental and corporate-media phrase Kiev and the West. But we do learn that the rulers of Qatar (funders of Al Nusra) are glad to support antiwar demonstrations--in Moscow! Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] European Parliament condemns Azarbaijani regime
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The Aliev dynasty's Azerbaijan regime runs a kleptocratic petrostate in the interest of the multinational oil barons. The dynasty's founder, Geidar Aliev, was a leading figure, a hard-line Politburo member, in the Stalinist ruling class of the self-styled USSR. It is spectacular proof that the dissolution of the USSR was not what the benighted degenerated-workers'-state epigones of Trotsky called a counter-revolution but rather the organic development of a counter- revolutionary Stalinist regime whose state-capitalist nature had already been decided by history a half-century earlier. (from The Armenian Weekly, 18/09/14) click for more STRASBOURG—Today, the European Parliament with an overwhelming majority adopted a resolution condemning the persecution of human rights defenders in Azerbaijan, and calling for targeted sanctions against Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev’s regime, and visa bans against some who are directly responsible for oppression in the country. Azerbaijan was harshly criticized by members of the European Parliament, who stressed the absurd reality of Azerbaijan currently holding the rotating Presidency of the Council of Europe’s Council of Ministers—an institution upholding values of Human Rights and Freedom— whereas, “in the last few years the general Human Rights climate in Azerbaijan has been deteriorating, with a major escalation of government repression, pressure and intimidation directed at NGOs, civil society activists, journalists and human rights defenders.” Parliamentarian Marie-Christine Vergiat (Confederal Group of the European United Left – Nordic Green Left, France) said that the impunity of Azerbaijan and the Aliyev regime should stop, that the EU should not be focused on oil and gas only, and that the Association Agreement with Azerbaijan should not go on. Parliamentarian Alexander Graf Lambsdorff (Group of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe, Germany) stressed the gruesome reality facing civil society in Azerbaijan, after the authoritarian regime’s continuous and brutal crackdowns based on fabricated and politically motivated charges. It was also mentioned, that a few months earlier, President Aliyev had called his critics liars from the podium of the Council of Europe, and had rejected any sort of criticism, despite the deteriorating situation in Azerbaijan. “[The European Parliament] deplores the actions taken by the Azerbaijani Government to curb contacts between civil society and youth activists and intellectuals from Armenia and Azerbaijan, since these contacts are of major importance for bridging the long-standing hostility between the two countries; in this regard, recalls the important work done in this area by Leyla Yunus and her husband Arif,” states the resolution. The resolution also stresses that the European Parliament’s consent to the signature of a partnership agreement with Azerbaijan will be conditional on the satisfactory implementation of the above-mentioned requirements, the release of human rights defenders, the withdrawal of legislation restricting the operations of an independent civil society, and the cessation of repression and intimidation of NGOs, independent media, opposition forces, human rights defenders and youth and social network activists. Members of the European Parliament stressed that Azerbaijan should be held accountable for its actions at home, and that promotion of human rights should be an inseparable part of the foreign policy of the EU. The resolution highlights the fact that the EU-Azerbaijan human rights dialogue has made no substantial progress; calls on the European External Action Service (EEAS) to step up this dialogue, aim for results, and to report regularly to Parliament; and calls on the EU Council and the Member States to urge the International Olympic Committee (IOC) to call on the Azerbaijani authorities to stop the crackdown on activists, and make it clear that it expects the country, as hosts of the European Olympic Games to be held next year, to uphold the Olympic Charter’s requirement to respect press freedoms. Most importantly, the European Parliament recalls its position of May 24, 2012, and calls on the EU Council to consider the possibility of targeted sanctions against those responsible for human rights violations, should these persist. Kaspar Karampetian, President of the European Armenian Federation for Justice and Democracy (EAFJD) said that finally the European Union is speaking up against the oppressive regime in Baku, and that Commissioner Neven Mimica’s intervention is in the right direction. “We welcome this resolution of the European
[Marxism] From the Guardian: Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 might have been shot down from air
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == theguardian.com http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/12/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-most-likely-shot-down-from-ground The possibility that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down from the ground is the most likely scenario being explored by dozens of detectives, according to the Dutch prosecutor overseeing the criminal investigation into the downing of the jet. The coverup of the Ukrainian crime goes on apace. With the black boxes containing all flight data and all the in-cockpit conversation in their hands the NATO prosecutors cannot even pretend to exclude the less likely scenario that MH17 was shot down by an interceptor jet or jets. Meanwhile they are poring over 350 million web pages and thousands of photos and films that could contain evidence of the attack, and trying to verify the authenticity of intercepted phone conversations. Detectives and forensic experts also are looking at 25 metal objects recovered from bodies and wreckage to see if they can offer any clues. 25 objects! Why so few? Because the Kiev/Ukrainian authorities ever since the downing have been carrying on their antiterrorist operation (and how many bells does that phraseology set off?) around the crash site. By pure coincidence these operations made it impossible for the investigators to collect the physical evidence still lying around for them to pick up. As to why there is no information from or about the satellite surveillance of the area--does anyone need to ask? But not to worry. There are hundreds of millions of web pages and photos and films to mine in order to come up with an account echoing the investigation into the Lockerbie bombing that took years to identify suspects. one of whom was actually acquitted while the other was convicted by NATO judges despite the total absence of evidence against him. But what the hell--they managed to extort a few billion from Qaddafi and made sure the real story would never be heard while the Libyan dictator would get all the blame. Like now, when it will take years to come up with a report blaming the present Russian dictator, after which the Western media will have so thoroughly entrenched the thesis of Russian Guilt in public consciousness that any prosecutorial fiction, however grossly stitched together, will pass as common knowledge. Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] From the Guardian: Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 might have been shot down from air
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Sep 12, 2014, at 1:54 PM, Louis Proyect wrote: On 9/12/14 12:25 PM, Shane Mage via Marxism wrote: one of whom was actually acquitted while the other was convicted by NATO judges despite the total absence of evidence against him. But what the hell--they managed to extort a few billion from Qaddafi and made sure the real story would never be heard while the Libyan dictator would get all the blame. Like now, when it will take years to come up with a report blaming the present Russian dictator, after which the Western media will have so thoroughly entrenched the thesis of Russian Guilt in public consciousness that any prosecutorial fiction, however grossly stitched together, will pass as common knowledge. Shane, at this point I've gotten use to having the same relationship to the Kremlin that Gus Hall once had but where in the Guardian article is support for the idea that the MH17 might have been shot down from air. I read the article 3 times, taking my cataracts into account, but found nothing to support that notion. The Dutch statements were that the most likely scenario was that it was shot down from the ground and that it *definitely* was downed by 'high velocity projectiles from outside the plane. Which leaves two possibilities: that those projectiles came from the ground or from the air. NOT FROM INSIDE THE PLANE. Got it? Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] all you need to know about the Scottish Referendum
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Guardian headline: BP urges Scotland to vote against independence Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Rational Unreason of Imperial War
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Aug 30, 2014, at 8:29 AM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote: http://stillhomeron.blogspot.com/2014/08/the-rational-unreason-of-imperial-war.html Although I think the tendency among commentators to call the current situation between Russia and the West a “new cold war” is not only symptomatic of the Western press’s short term memory, but a misnomer (inter-imperialist rivalry is a much more accurate description), the truth is permanent NATO military bases along Russia’s borders are nothing short of a serious provocation. new cold war is a misnomer only insofar as it echoes the dishonest Anticommunist ideology used against the USSR, which, of course, utilized a comparably dishonest Anticapitalist ideology against its rival. The truth is that inter-imperialist rivalry was then, just as it is today, a much more accurate description. Which is not in the least to deny that permanent NATO military bases along Russia’s borders are nothing short of a serious provocation. Shane Mage scientific discovery is basically recognition of obvious realities that self-interest or ideology have kept everybody from paying attention to Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Gunning for Vandana Shiva » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Aug 22, 2014, at 9:14 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: Perhaps nothing symbolizes the decline of the New Yorker magazine more than the hatchet job on Vandana Shiva that appears in the latest issue... full: http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/22/gunning-for-vandana- shiva/ Excellent article, Louis! Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: From the Guardian: US bans flights over Syria as report warns of threat to airliners
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/19/us-bans-flights-over-syria-as-report-warns-of-threat-to-airliners ...Small Arms Survey, a Switzerland-based research organisation that analyses the global flow of weapons, published a report on Tuesday in the wake of Malaysia Airlines flight 17 (MH17) being shot down over Ukraine. The report focuses on launchers and missiles known as “man- portable air defence systems”, or Manpads, which are dangerous to planes flying at lower altitudes, taking off or landing. The report estimates that several hundred anti-aircraft missile systems are already in rebel arsenals. Mostly Russian and Chinese in origin, the weapons have been seized by Syrian opposition militias from government forces and smuggled in from nations sympathetic to the insurgents, the report says... Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Islamic State and ground-to-air missiles
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Aug 17, 2014, at 1:28 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: On 8/17/14 12:19 PM, DW via Marxism wrote: So this is nonsense and a lie that the Rebels don't have any MANPADs. Except that this is not what I said. I said that there is no evidence that a rat line existed. Benghazi is the public evidence that Hersh's whistleblowers were right--the presence of a CIA base plus the ambassador visiting a consulate where there was obviously no consular business to be done has no other remotely plausible explanation. Shane Mage scientific discovery is basically recognition of obvious realities that self-interest or ideology have kept everybody from paying attention to Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Islamic State and ground-to-air missiles
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Aug 17, 2014, at 2:24 PM, Louis Proyect wrote: On 8/17/14 2:05 PM, Shane Mage wrote: Louis Proyect wrote:...I said that there is no evidence that a rat line existed. Benghazi is the public evidence that Hersh's whistleblowers were right--the presence of a CIA base plus the ambassador visiting a consulate where there was obviously no consular business to be done has no other remotely plausible explanation. Wall Street Journal, October 17, 2012: ...To keep control of the flow of weapons to the Syrian rebels, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar formed a joint operations room early this year in a covert project U.S. officials watched from afar. The U.S. has limited its support of the rebels to communications equipment, logistics and intelligence. But U.S. officials have coordinated with the trio of countries sending arms and munitions to the rebels. The Pentagon and CIA ramped up their presence on Turkey’s southern border as the weapons began to flow to the rebels in two to three shipments every week. How can you quote that and still claim no evidence of a rat line sending two to three shipments every week of weapons through Turkey from Libya? In July, the U.S. effectively halted the delivery of at least 18 Manpads sourced from Libya, even as the rebels pleaded for more effective antiaircraft missiles to counter regime airstrikes in Aleppo, people familiar with that delivery said. Why is it kosher for the WSJ to cite unnamed Obamist propagandists but trief for Sy Hersh to cite unnamed whistleblowers? Shane Mage scientific discovery is basically recognition of obvious realities that self-interest or ideology have kept everybody from paying attention to Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Nato-Member Turkey Threatens Western-Owned Banks, Shifts East, Cozies up to Russia
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/08/nato-member-turkey-threatens-western-owned-banks-shifts-east-cozies-up-to-russia.html All of which goes to show just how effective U.S. foreign policy can be at bringing other nations together – albeit in mutual opposition to the U.S. In the case of Turkey, one of the main motivations behind distancing itself from the West and cozying up to BRICs nations like Russia are government fears over the prospect of multibillion-dollar SEC fines against its state-owned banks for violating U.S. sanctions on Iran and “financing terrorism.” Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Significance of MMT for Progressives and the Left
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://heteconomist.com/significance-of-mmt-for-progressives-and-the-left/localhost/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Iraq is not Syria: US Congress on board this time - Yahoo News
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Aug 13, 2014, at 1:14 PM, Louis Proyect wrote: On 8/13/14 12:56 PM, Shane Mage via Marxism wrote: Their physical extermination is the duty of every government, every political force, in the world (any of the Nazis who fails to achieve his desired martyrdom deserves to be confined in a supermax prison under constant suicide watch for the rest of his natural--plus medically prolonged--life). This is the second instance of Shane Mage backing Samantha Power humanitarian intervention. The last time was in Mali, where he backed the French against the Tuareg rebels... Those swine were the detritus from the imperialist intervention in Libya. It was the Tuareg rebels were fighting them but they were out- armed and unable to defend Tombuctou and most of the Tuareg's Saharan domain from them. Why should they be denounced for *in extremis* accepting help against the takfiri scum from any quarter? It seems that Lou's Francophobia, stemming from his Pabloite past glorification of the fascist FLN (responsible for ethnic cleansing and murders exceeding even those perpetrated by the Zionists in the nakba) has made him entirely insensitive to the genocides and lesser atrocities carried out by the Nazistic takfiris). Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Iraq is not Syria: US Congress on board this time
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Aug 13, 2014, at 1:14 PM, Louis Proyect wrote: On 8/13/14 12:56 PM, Shane Mage via Marxism wrote: Their physical extermination is the duty of every government, every political force, in the world (any of the Nazis who fails to achieve his desired martyrdom deserves to be confined in a supermax prison under constant suicide watch for the rest of his natural--plus medically prolonged--life). This is the second instance of Shane Mage backing Samantha Power humanitarian intervention. The last time was in Mali, where he backed the French against the Tuareg rebels... Those swine were the detritus from the imperialist intervention in Libya. It was the Tuareg rebels who were fighting them but they were out-armed and unable to defend Tombuctou and most of the Tuareg's Saharan domain from them. Why should they be denounced for *in extremis* accepting help against the takfiri scum from any quarter? It seems that Lou's Francophobia, stemming from his Pabloite past glorification of the fascist FLN (responsible for ethnic cleansing and murders exceeding even those perpetrated by the Zionists in the nakba) has made him entirely insensitive to the genocides and lesser atrocities carried out by the Nazistic takfiris). Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] On Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine MH17
==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==
On Aug 8, 2014, at 7:31 PM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism wrote:
On Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine MH17
http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2014/08/on-russias-war-of-aggression-against.html
The evidence of Ukraine's guilt is now overwhelming. Mr. Claiborne
continues to ignore it. Expect him to reply by denouncing GR for
everything--except for the content of Eric Zuesse's clear and
convincing summary of the evidence!
Systematically Reconstructing the Shoot-Down of the Malaysian Airliner
MH17
by Eric Zuesse
Global Research (August 07 2014)
On July 22nd, zerohedge bannered sarcastically, Flight MH-17 Black
Boxes To Be Analyzed In 'Impartial' London {1}, and reported that
they would be analyzed by the US-allied, anti-Russian, pro-Ukrainian,
British Government.
A mere four days later, on the 26th, CBS News headlined the results,
Black box findings consistent with missile blast {2}, but they
declined to report who, or even what country's government, had
actually done the analysis. CBS reported merely: Unreleased data from
a black box retrieved from the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17
in Ukraine show findings consistent with the plane's fuselage being
hit multiple times by shrapnel from a missile explosion. 'It did what
it was designed to do', a European air safety official told CBS News,
'bring down airplanes'. The official described the finding as 'massive
explosive decompression'. That's all. Nothing more.
However, this explosive decompression would have happened with
bullets too, if the pressurized airliner were punctured by bullets
instead of shrapnel. Why did that person (whomever it was) assume that
the plane had been hit by a missile's shrapnel, instead of by hails of
bullets fired by machine-guns from a fighter-plane flying alongside
it? Maybe because Britain is allied with the Obama-installed Ukrainian
Government, against the anti-Government rebels who have no airplanes
at all and thus cannot get gunmen 33,000 feet up into the air to shoot
directly at the Malaysian airliner's pilot, and that's what actually
brought this plane down. We'll show that the latter scenario is,
indeed, correct.
Only idiots would trust Britain to interpret these black boxes to
determine what and who brought down that plane. But, fortunately, the
physical evidence lying on the ground at the site in Ukraine was
photographed very quickly by locals there and uploaded to the Internet
sometime before any fighters and any governments were able to tamper
with anything; and there happened to be one modest-looking item found
at the site that tells a remarkably complete and entirely credible and
convincing account of how this plane came down.
It tells that the Ukrainian Government itself did this
airliner-downing, with bullets, not with shrapnel. You'll see the
evidence laid out before you here; you won't need to rely upon the
British Government to tell you how this event happened. The evidence
will tell you that.
On July 30th, the retired Lufthansa pilot and published historian
Peter Haisenko issued his Shocking Analysis of the 'Shooting Down' of
Malaysian MH17 {3}, in which an extremely close-in photo of the most
important piece of physical evidence regarding this event is shown -
it's the side-panel on the left-hand side of the cockpit directly
where the downed plane's pilot was seated - and this photo shocked me,
too.
Here, first, is that side-panel shown inserted back onto its airliner,
so that you can see precisely what and where this piece of the
wreckage was on the plane. {4} You will immediately notice the big
gaping hole that had been shot through the side-panel where the pilot
sits - in other words, targeting directly at the plane's pilot.
This is incredibly precise targeting, of a specific person, and not
merely of the far larger body of an airliner. A ground-based
missile-shot fired from 33,000 feet below cannot achieve that gaping
hole precisely where the pilot sits. A fighter jet plane that's
escorting the airliner into the conflict-zone can. This is how:
Here is that side-panel shown close-up, from Haisenko {5}. Some of the
projectiles that pierced it, as you can see, were inbound into the
plane (or bent inward), and some of them were coming out of the plane
(or bent outward). In other words, going back again to the
full-cockpit photo {6}, and if there were two fighter jets escorting
this plane into the conflict-zone, and if one of them was below the
pilot and cockpit to the left, and the other was below them to the
right, and if both of those fighter-planes then suddenly fired
machine-gun magazines directly into the pilot, so that the bullets
that were coming from his right exited outward from this left-side
cockpit-panel, while the bullets that were coming
[Marxism] was-putin-targeted-for-mid-air-assassination?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Exclusive: Official Washington’s conventional wisdom on the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down blames Russian President Putin, but some U.S. intelligence analysts think Putin, whose plane was flying nearby, may have been the target of Ukrainian hardliners who hit the wrong plane, writes Robert Parry. http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/08/was-putin-targeted-for-mid-air-assassination/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: [CubaNews] *going wild!* - US SWP blames Palestinians for Israeli assault
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This is the deleted editorial: From: Walter Lippmann walte...@earthlink.net [CubaNews] cuban...@yahoogroups.com Date: August 3, 2014 3:02:58 PM EDT To: CubaNews cuban...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [CubaNews] *going wild!* - US SWP blames Palestinians for Israeli assault Reply-To: cuban...@yahoogroups.com Vol. 78/No. 29 August 11, 2014 (front page) Israeli assault devastates working people of Gaza Hamas’ sacrificing of civilians deals blow to Palestinian struggle, workers’ solidarity Active Stills photos by Omar Sameer, above; Keren Manor, inset Israeli assault on Gaza that began July 7 has killed more than 1,100 people, mostly civilians. Some 170,000 have fled their homes. Photos show protests in Israel against Tel Aviv’s assault, above, in Umm al- Fahm, July 25; right, in Tel Aviv, July 26. BY SETH GALINSKY The death toll from Tel Aviv’s assault on the Gaza Strip has surpassed 1,100 — three-quarters of them civilians, including at least 218 children. More than 6,000 Palestinians have been injured and at least 170,000, about one-tenth of the strip’s population, have fled their homes. As of July 27 the Israeli army had destroyed more than 3,540 buildings, damaged 120 schools, six hospitals, and water, electricity and sewage systems that affect nearly all of Gaza’s 1.8 million people. After a two-day lull, Israeli forces renewed airstrikes and artillery fire across Gaza, killing 30 people July 28 and knocking its only power plant out of commission. Most of Gaza’s electricity comes from Israel, but many of those power lines have been damaged since fighting began July 7. The Israeli assault began after Hamas fired scores of missiles aimed at populated areas in Israel, they said in protest of the arrest of Hamas supporters. According to the Israel Defense Forces, since July 7 Hamas has fired more than 1,000 rockets, with the full expectation that it would draw a massive counterattack. Most of Hamas’ widely inaccurate projectiles landed in unpopulated areas. The IDF says Israel’s Iron Dome anti-missile system has intercepted nearly 500 rockets. Politically hostile to mounting a mass popular struggle that could mobilize Palestinian workers and farmers and win support throughout the region, including among Jewish working people, Hamas’ anti- working-class strategy maximizes the sacrifice of civilians in Gaza. Their aim is to gain sympathy in wings of bourgeois public opinion that might bring diplomatic pressure on Tel Aviv. Hamas systematically places its targeted rocket launchers and other weaponry in densely populated working-class neighborhoods, as well as schools, hospitals and other public facilities. And the group’s promotion of Jew hatred and explicit targeting of Jewish civilians cuts off the possibility of winning solidarity for the Palestinian struggle from Jewish working people in Israel, which would help end the blockade of Gaza, open the borders for work and travel, and advance other national demands. There are fewer and fewer refuges for workers and farmers in Gaza, a narrow strip and one of the most densely populated regions on earth. According to the United Nations, Israel’s military has declared at least 44 percent of the territory a “no-go zone” that residents should evacuate. The Israel Defense Forces say that they give civilians in Gaza advance notice to flee targeted areas through leaflets and text messages. A letter to the Israeli government from nine human rights groups in Israel notes that “one is hard put to consider the dispersal of leaflets ‘effective warning’” when residents of the Gaza Strip have “no way to completely evacuate the targeted area.” In the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority government of President Mahmoud Abbas had tried to restrict protests in solidarity with Gaza. But as outrage grew, Abbas’ governing Fatah party backed a July 24 protest of 10,000 near the Kalandia checkpoint between Jerusalem and the West Bank village of Ramallah. At least two protesters were killed and more than 100 wounded when Israeli soldiers and border police attacked. Opposition inside Israel While polls indicate widespread support among Israeli Jews for the military assault, opponents of the war have sought to get out their views inside Israel. Hundreds of Jews and Palestinians protesting in Haifa July 18 were joined by Basel Ghattas, Jamal Zahalka and Haneen Zoabi, three Palestinian members of the Knesset, Israel’s parliament. The protest was initiated by Hadash, a political party established by the Communist Party. Counterprotesters chanted “Death to Arabs, Go to Gaza.” Haifa police had refused to grant a permit for the
Re: [Marxism] Stockman On Dominoes , WMDs And Putins Aggression: Imperial Washingt on Is Intoxicated By Another Big Lie
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jul 30, 2014, at 1:53 PM, Jeff via Marxism wrote: Oh how extremely interesting: Shane has identified another businessman/politician on the right fringe of establishment politics Where do you find the US defined as the warfare state within establishment politics, fringe or not? who comes to the defense of Putin... Where do you see Stockman referring to Putin as anything other than the head of a gangster state comparable to his enemies' ? Shane Mage scientific discovery is basically recognition of obvious realities that self-interest or ideology have kept everybody from paying attention to Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Leaked Correspondence Shows Agency’s “Trolling”
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jul 25, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: http://www.stopfake.org/en/leaked-correspondence-shows-agency-s-trolling/ Anonymous International last week uploaded hacked correspondence alleged to be between employees and their superiors at the Internet Research Agency...The correspondence showed that paid bloggers and commenters have been heavily used to infiltrate the Internet forums of Western media outlets and blogs...The Western media has expressed concern about pro-Kremlin commentators... Excellent investigative journalists (Chris Hedges, Robert Parry, Robert Fisk, et. al.) have been repeatedly denounced here for having granted anonymity to sources who would otherwise certainly be fired, probably prosecuted, and perhaps even killed for their having revealed state secrets. But the denouncer now swallows whole anonymous accusations from some anonymous source calling itself Anonymous International anonymously accusing many unnamed bloggers and commenters of being paid agents of the KGB. The evidence for that charge is that they seem to have tried to resist the organized wave of anti-Russian contumacy dominating the Western media. Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] NATO over Libya vs. IDF over Gaza
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jul 25, 2014, at 5:46 PM, Glenn Kissack via Marxism wrote: All imperialists are our enemy, but shouldn't we be focusing our fire on our own imperialism, rather than praising it? Of course--but Claiborne is no part of we. Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] NATO over Libya vs. IDF over Gaza
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jul 25, 2014, at 5:21 PM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism wrote: Nobody in LA would accept the LAPD slamming a missile into a building and excusing it by saying the drug dealers or whoever were using civilians as human shields. In Philadelphia black women and children were murdered when their homes were bombed by the State. Mumia is still in jail after being framed for murder. Nobody (that denotes Odysseus, myself, and anybody decent--obviously not Mr. Claiborne) objected. Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] and now tragically, inevitably, we have this...
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jul 20, 2014, at 4:53 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: On 7/20/14 4:20 PM, John Obrien via Marxism wrote: I continue to detect on this Marxist List discussions people promoting/cheer leading U. S. (capitalist) government military and economic aggression and interference in these and other nations - and others promoting the Russia (capitalist) government and its allies/proxies (capitalist) states actions. You have to learn how to quote people, O'Brien. This kind of characterization of people's views without regard for what they actually are saying is not only provocative, it defeats the purpose of having a serious debate... Methinks our listowner doth protest too much, since he has just slandered Robert Parry (Robert Parry is part of a cadre of investigative journalists who have put themselves at the disposal of the Kremlin) for having passingly expressed scepticism, in the course of a splendid piece of investigative journalism (investigative journalism, by the way, is the endeavor to uncover and publicize information that those in power wish to suppress), anent the US regime's official position on the Sarin incident in Syria. And, by the way, there is no analytic difference between denouncing someone for not doing something or not doing enough of it (as when Obama is denounced for not intervening actively enough in support of the armed insurgency in Syria) and cheerleading for that person doing something or doing more of it. John O'Brien has summarized that side of the discussion quite precisely. Shane Mage scientific discovery is basically recognition of obvious realities that self-interest or ideology have kept everybody from paying attention to Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Times of Oman | Column :: Isis is the backlash of an unreal revolution
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jul 6, 2014, at 8:26 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: (This is from the op-ed page editor of the Oman Times. Odd to see my described as a classical academician but even odder to see me misquoted. I was criticizing Tariq Ali in my review of Gilbert Achcar's The People Want, who said that there were no revolutions. I wrote in my review Using Tariq Ali's yardstick, Vietnam had no revolution when it drove out the American imperialists. In other words, Ali was dismissing the Arab Spring as a non-event... To say that some upheaval is not a revolution is in no way to imply that it was a non-event. If any non-constitutional transfer of power (say al Sisi v. Morsi or Bush v. Gore) is to be called a revolution, that would empty the word of any meaning except proclaiming one's solidarity with the new power-holders. Marxists, though, usually prefer to use the word as signifying a democratic political and social transformation establishing the proletariat as the leading class in society. In any case, that's my preferred usage. Academics, of course, prefer an abstract categorization of such power-transfers as either political or social revolutions whatever their class content. , a view I obviously do not share...[that] Vietnam had no revolution when it drove out the American imperialists. Just look at the millionaires in Vietnam today, profiting off of sweatshops. The so-called national revolution in 1975 changed little as the same class against which the Vietnamese revolted still continues to rule the nation. full: http://www.timesofoman.com/Columns/2086/Article-Isis-is-the-backlash-of-an-unreal-revolution Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: US Should Back Syria’s Assad Against ISIS | The Nation
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jul 4, 2014, at 8:20 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: Dreyfuss's Islamophobia on display. http://www.thenation.com/blog/180522/us-should-back-syrias-assad-against-isis Having read the incriminated article, I see not the slightest sign of anything even remotely resembling Islamophobia (pathological compulsive fear or hatred of the Islamic religion generally or of muslims generally). Are you suggesting that rejection of any form of direct or indirect alliance with nazis like Al Nusra or Islamic State is a display of Islamophobia? Surely his liberalism is sufficient explanation for Dreyfuss's support to US intervention, albeit to a form of intervention displeasing to you. Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: The Nation’s man in Tehran: Who is Robert Dreyfuss? - World Socialist Web Site
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jul 4, 2014, at 8:24 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: eye-opening: Robert Dreyfuss...has parroted the unverified charge of a stolen election [for] Mahmoud Ahmadinejad... are you suggesting any doubt as to the fraudulence of Ahmedi-Nejad's election in 2009? Shane Mage L'après-vie, c'est une auberge espagnole. L'on n'y trouve que ce qu'on a apporté. Bardo Thodol Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] White supremacy and slavery: Gerald Horne on the real story of American independence - Salon.com
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jul 4, 2014, at 10:58 AM, Mark Lause via Marxism wrote: Apologies. In my haste on this subject, I misidentified an article quoting Gerald Horne with one he had written. The record should be set straight. None of which mediates the absurdity of describing the American Revolution as a Counterrevolution' . . . as if the British who introduced slavery and were making fortunes out of it were on the verge of eliminating it. The term counterrevolution is a blatant anachronism, since neither the word nor the concept existed or could have existed in 1775. But slavery certainly had become quite controversial in Britain at that timke. More to the point, the prohibition of white settler expansion beyond the Alleghanies was absolutely tantamount to the elimination of slavery in the continental colonies, since slavery could not exist in proximity to the vast hinterland of freedom constituted by the American-ruled interior of the continent! Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Alex Callinicos: take a look in the mirror |
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jul 4, 2014, at 3:51 PM, Louis Proyect wrote: It paraphrases what Julius Caesar said in Shakespeare’s play: “The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves... The phrase belongs to Cassius, the arch counterrevolutionary terrorist murderer! Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] $500 million for Obama to support the revolution?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Obama Seeks $500 Million to Train and Equip Syrian Opposition By HELENE COOPERJUNE 26, 2014 (NYT 26 June) WASHINGTON — President Obama on Thursday requested $500 million from Congress to train and equip what the White House is calling “appropriately vetted” members of the Syrian opposition... Various posters to this list have been vehement in their verbal support (and denunciation of those opposed) to what they are pleased to designate as the Syrian Revolution. So they each one now finally has to answer the question: There must be at least one member of Congress who you might hope would at least listen to your views--so what are you telling her/him to do when it comes to appropriating your money? The choices are Yes, No, or Abstain. Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: [Pen-l] Fwd: Indefensible Marxism | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jun 23, 2014, at 2:52 PM, Louis Proyect wrote: denouncing a government that has For a number of years...been cracking down on the opposition, jailing journalists and closing down media outlets...that defy the [regime's] policy goals. And declaring, in a rhetorical question, When you have total control over the press, what meaning does the word democratic have? It is more the pity that this criticism, so valid for the decades of Putin's rule in Russia, has not been raised for the more than half- century that the Castros have maintained even more thorough total control over the Cuban press and media. During all of which time the SWP and similar groupuscules have been fulsome in their praise of Cuban Democracy. Those who formulated, fostered, and perpetuated that political line, and to this day have not explicitly repudiated it, do indeed have a great deal to be repentant about. Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Hezbollah's Al-Manar network praising Joe Biden
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jun 20, 2014, at 8:43 PM, Shane Mage wrote: On Jun 20, 2014, at 8:00 PM, Louis Proyect wrote: On 6/20/14 7:49 PM, Shane Mage via Marxism wrote: As your posting equally vindicates the view that rrrevolutionaries like your good self share many common interests with the takfiris. You are replying to an Arab Marxist, Shane. Anyone (even a Mao or a Zizek) can style himself a Marxist. I was once expelled from a professedly Marxist groupuscule (one that was later to inspire your conception of marxism) simply for rejecting their going-over to the Stalinist apologetics of Pablo(Raptis)/Germain(Mandel), and the frères Castro. Marxism is as Marxism does. Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Three reasons why Turkey misunderstands ISIS - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jun 19, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism wrote: That the CIA might have inadvertently trained some ISIS fighters in Jordan Inadvertent? Like the 9-11 hijack simulations? Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fukushima’s Children are Dying » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jun 18, 2014, at 1:10 PM, DW via Marxism wrote: At any rate, you are shifting goal posts. You posted the point from the study on Chernobyl as if proving that the article published by the New York Academy of Sciences seemingly 'answers' a statement David P A because of the reputation of the NYAS. I posted in response to this ONLY in the matter of what the NYAS **actually** thinks of what it published (by accident) was basically refuted by them and thus doesn't actually refute David's claim at all. The paper is useless and thus is only cited by the most rabid of anti-nukes like Harvey Wasserman. The study was originally published in 2009. Now, more than four years later, DW is unable (he would if he could, wouldn't he?) to cite a single criticism (let alone refutation) of any of its facts or conclusions. Yet he cites the absence of either endorsement or refutation by the NYAS as justification for slandering it as junk and slandering Harvey Wasserman as not merely rabid but most rabid! Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Bourgeoisie to Maidan: Thanks very much, now go home
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Jun 10, 2014, at 2:48 PM, Matthew Russo via Marxism wrote: I hope the position of our side is clear: NO! Your side--in no way mine--is vividly represented on this video by the shirtless tattooed skinhead swinging his whip and by the other one (with shirt, that one) declaiming that all Ukrainians want to kill the exiled president. Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
