[meteorite-list] Mars Global Surveyor Images - August 7-13, 2003
MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR IMAGES August 7-13, 2003 The following new images taken by the Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) on the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft are now available: o Layers in Tithonium Chasma (Released 07 August 2003) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/08/07/index.html o Northeast Hellas Landscape (Released 08 August 2003) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/08/08/index.html o Large, Windblown Ripples (Released 09 August 2003) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/08/09/index.html o Scamander Vallis (Released 10 August 2003) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/08/10/index.html o Bouldery Surface (Released 11 August 2003) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/08/11/index.html o Peridier Crater (Released 12 August 2003) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/08/12/index.html o South Polar Mesas (Released 13 August 2003) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/08/13/index.html All of the Mars Global Surveyor images are archived here: http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/index.html Mars Global Surveyor was launched in November 1996 and has been in Mars orbit since September 1997. It began its primary mapping mission on March 8, 1999. Mars Global Surveyor is the first mission in a long-term program of Mars exploration known as the Mars Surveyor Program that is managed by JPL for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS) and the California Institute of Technology built the MOC using spare hardware from the Mars Observer mission. MSSS operates the camera from its facilities in San Diego, CA. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory's Mars Surveyor Operations Project operates the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft with its industrial partner, Lockheed Martin Astronautics, from facilities in Pasadena, CA and Denver, CO. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay (Zagami Mars Meteorite)
Using their estimated maximum weight of 190 grams, that works out to $2,368 per gramsignificantly more than the regular going rate for Zagami. (Hey SELL2ALL.for something you value at 450 large, go buy a scale.) BUTdoes a piece of this size demand any type of premium? And if sothis much? __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay (Zagami Mars Meteorite)
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030814/atthfns1_1.html The Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay sell2All, Inc. Press Release August 14, 2003 LINCOLN, Neb., Aug. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- Now is your chance to own a rare 1.3 Billion year old piece of the Red Planet! The largest known specimen in circulation (188 grams) of the famous Mars rock Zagami, is owned by a private individual, and will be auctioned on eBay beginning on September 5th by Sell2All, Inc., of Lincoln, Nebraska. Bidding starts at $450,000. Zagami fell to Earth October 3rd, 1962 in central Nigeria. Some estimates value this specimen at over $2,000,000. Displayed for several years in Nigeria's prestigious Kaduna Museum, one side is Museum cut to display the internal layers and another side has been left natural with a black flanked crust to show the fusion (actual burning and melting) of the rock as it passed at high speeds through the atmosphere while falling to earth. Referenced over 3000 times on internet search engines, this specimen has been shown all over the world. See NASA's website for the complete Zagami story at http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/curator/antmet/mmc/Zagami.pdf . Information and pictures are available at www.sell2all.com/mars . We are about to experience a phenomenon that will never occur again in our lifetime! Astronomers say this month Mars is getting closer to Earth and has not come this close (within 34,649,589 miles) in the last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years. On August 27 at 75-power magnification Mars may look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. The owner of this Zagami specimen is hoping to sell this rare specimen for an even closer look! Out of 22,000 meteorites known to man, only 13 are actually known to be Martian. Several Planetariums have expressed strong interest in owning this specific Zagami rock. The owners are hoping someone will buy it to donate to their favorite Planetarium in his or her honor. Also, private art collectors with everything who enjoy one-of-a-kind pieces could be potential buyers. Documentation of authenticity is provided by author and speaker John Saul, Ph.D., an Independent Registered Geologist who was selected as the meteorite expert by the scientific board which oversaw the drilling of the well known Siljan meteorite impact in Sweden. In the certification John states, I have never personally seen a finer specimen of any of the Mars Meteorites in the hands of a private individual. The meteorite was also authenticated by Jean-Claude Boulliard in 2001. Mr. Boulliard is curator of the mineral collection of the UPMC, which was formerly the collection in the Sorbonne in France. The authentication certificates are available on the website listed above. Sell2All, Inc., a large seller on the eBay marketplace, has been selling products on eBay since 1998. More information about Sell2All, Inc., can be found at www.sell2all.com. For Additional Information Contact: Rob Simon, Sell2All, Inc. Linda McClennySusan Peterson 402 475-7653, ext 115 205 556-9537 978-646-9675 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: The Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay (Zagami Mars Meteorite)
LINCOLN, Neb., Aug. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- Now is your chance to own a rare 1.3 Billion year old piece of the Red Planet! The largest known specimen in circulation (188 grams) of the famous Mars rock Zagami, is owned by a private individual Sounds like they're getting their Mars meteorites mixed up. Zagami is a shergottite, which is 180 million years old. Nakhilites, another type of Mars meteorite, are 1.3 billion years old. Zagami is the largest single Mars meteorite stone at 18 kg, or 40 pounds, when it fell in 1962. So, this 188 gram fragment is roughly 1/100th of the original main mass, though still rather sizeable for a Mars meteorite. Some estimates value this specimen at over $2,000,000. That translates to over $10,000/gram, which is extremely optimistic. That is about 20 to 30 times the current market rate for Zagami. Out of 22,000 meteorites known to man, only 13 are actually known to be Martian. There are currently 28 known Mars meteorites. Ron Baalke __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Did meteorite slam Oakland? Field Report
Ken, So true. The reporter who interviewed me asked me to call the man who wrote the original story and give him grief because the writer didn't feel it necessary to follow up. Maria Original Message Follows From: magellon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: maria nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Did meteorite slam Oakland? Field Report Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:13:58 -0400 Maria, Thanks so much for the follow-up. The Press is quick to publish anyone's 'meteorite' story, but rarely follows up when it is often discovered to be a wrong. (No reflection on Ron Baalke, who does an excellent job on keeping us informed) I hope the trip wasn't too exhausting :) Best, ken newton maria nelson wrote: Hi All, Armed with my digital camera, four of my five meteorites, and chips of a rare-earth magnet, I went out to Davisburg today to scope out the impact crater. While I wasn't quite sure what I'd do when I got there (I'm really new at this), it became instantly clear when I approached the TV news van parked in the lot. During the interview (on camera) I was informed that the crater was created by the exhaust pipe of a fire truck. It was pretty comical but the reporter did let me show all of the meteorites I brought (some had Mike Farmer's card still in the bag). Even though they didn't air that part, they did air a cool part of the interview. I was asked if the lengthy drive was worth it and I responded: Yes, it was worth it. If this had been a meteorite we'd be holding space rocks right now! Anyway, my first field expedition and report is now complete and I used up about 15 seconds of my remaining 8 minutes of fame on a very worthy cause. Space Rocks Rule, Maria ;) - Original Message - From: Maria Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:19 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Did meteorite slam Oakland? URL: http://www.detnews.com/2003/metro/0308/12/c01-242704.htm Did meteorite slam Oakland? By Tom Greenwood / The Detroit News DAVISBURG -- Live long and prosper -- and duck! The Road Commission for Oakland County may have had a close encounter of the shooting-star kind when what appears to be a meteorite hit one of its maintenance facilities over the weekend. It happened sometime on Sunday when the yard was locked up and no one was working, road commission spokesman Craig Bryson said. Two workers came in Monday morning and found an impact crater outside the main garage near the employee parking lot. When they told me about it, I thought they were kidding. What's next? We've hired Bigfoot as a snowplow driver? Bryson said the object left a 12-inch-by-18-inch-by-3-inch crater in the lot, which may not seem impressive until one learns that the crater is in 6 inches of asphalt. The edges of the crater are seared black, and there's a fan-shaped debris field spread out all around the site, Bryson said. One of our employees is an amateur astronomer, and he said it looks like every impact crater he's ever seen. There is a good chance it was a meteorite, said David Batch, director of the Abrams Planetarium at Michigan State University. It's possible, although the description of the crater having charred edges bothers me a bit, Batch said. It could have been debris falling from a plane, although there's been no reports of anything like that. Fireworks are a possibility, but it would have to be a very strong explosion to have made that big a hole in asphalt. The best thing to do is to have the site examined and have the debris analyzed. Meteorites usually fall into one of three compositional categories: nickel/iron, stone and stone mixed with iron, Batch said. They enter the upper atmosphere at 40 miles per second but are greatly slowed by friction. If this was a meteorite, it was probably about the size of a fist or larger, Batch said. Workers have marked off the crater with orange cones. We're going to have our amateur astronomer contact some scientists and have them take a look, Bryson said. But what the heck? What else could it be? You can reach Tom Greenwood at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or (313) 222-2023. _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Japan's First Satellite OHSUMI Reenters Earth's Atmosphere
Institute of Space and Aeronautical Science Sagamihara, Japan August 5, 2003 Japan's First Satellite OHSUMI Came back to Earth Japan's first satellite re-entered Earth's atmosphere and burnt up 20:45 Aug. 1 (UT) over 30.3 N and 25.0 E (around the border of Egypt and Libya). She was 33 years old after she was born Feb.11, 1970, launched from Kagoshima Space Center using L-4S-5 launch vehicle by the Institute of Space and Aeronautical Science, University of Tokyo (ISAS). The test satellite was Japan's first such solo effort. By the launch, Japan became the fourth country in the world after Russia, the United States and France, to accomplish the feat. The main purpose of the mission was to test the launch scheme called gravity turn to place the artificial satellite into orbit. It only functioned for 14-15 hours before shutting down, and took three decades to make its return journey. [NOTE: Images supporting this release are available at http://www.isas.ac.jp/dtc/news/ohsumi-e.html ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] I must be missing something here...
Dear Linda, I must be missing something here in this post. You are telling Ron Baalke of NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab (who posts NASA press releases on MARS current progress, and a zillion other NASA Press releases each year, for at least six years to our meteorite central list) that he doesn't know what he is talking about concerning Zagami, mmm..or should I say MMM... My Fifth Edition of Catalogue of Meteorites by Monica M. Grady, British Museum of Natural History, states that OUR Zagami, which fell in 1962, has a Ar-Ar age ~ 242 Ma (see D. D. Bogard D.H. Garrison, 1999) listed on page 541 of Catalogue. For Nakhla, which fell in 1911, has a Ar-Ar age, 1300 Ma, F.A. Podosek J.C Huneke (1973) listed on page 356 of Catalogue. I hate to be a doubting thomas here, but is this another case of drinking too much ebay-soup? Getting your hands on the bible of collected meteorites, the Catalogue...which is available on line somewhere, might be a grand idea when quoting strands of written cabbage that may be disputable. Sincerely, Dave Freeman (who has his copy of the Catalogue on his lap as he types this up!) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Denver show info?
List Members, For the first time, I'm gonna make it to the Denver show. I haven't been able to find much info about who's where and what's going on. I'd appreciate any info. Hopefully I can leave some money with list members in Denver and bring home some thin sections. Where should I go? Thanks in advance for advice. --Jamie Stephens IMCA 2828 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay (Zagami Mars Meteorite)
Hi All, Regarding the pending auction of the good-sized piece of Zagami, I found the following line with the quote by John Saul amusing: In the certification John states, I have never personally seen a finer specimen of any of the Mars Meteorites in the hands of a private individual. Okay, here's my answer to John: http://www.meteoriteman.com/collection/zagami.htm (Technically it's not in the hands of Bob Haag, but rather only one hand... ;-) I'm sure Bob Verish/Ron Baalke could provide images of Bob holding LA 001 and/or LA 002, at least one of which should qualify as being a finer specimen of a Mars meteorite in the hand(s) of a private individual. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Any Perseid reports?
Hello List, Does anyone have any reports on what the Perseids were like last night? We've had a lot of clouds this week here in Little Rock, and were completely socked in, with light rain off and on. It doesn't look much better tonight for any after-the-peak stragglers, either. I hope others of you had better conditions (in spite of the full moon) and had a good show to share with us! Thanks. Robert Woolard __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Four HUGE Meteorites
I have these four meteorites that somebody might be interested in http://www.meteoriteshop.com/aa-125pounds.html Email me if you are intereseted in making a serious offer on any of these. The photos are nice even if you dont want to buy them. I also have deals on 50 and 100 kilo piles of NWA869 for those dealers out there Cheers DEAN www.meteoriteshop.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[Fwd: [meteorite-list] Re: The Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay (Zagami Mars Meteorite)]]
Linda McClenny wrote: We have numerous published reports from different sources on the Zagami history, and they all say the age is 1.3 billion years of age.Thanks for your interest.Best Regards, LindaLinda McClenny Linda, Inc. 205-556-9537 office 205-553-0956 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Andres Posada To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 10:31 AM Subject: [Fwd: [meteorite-list] Re: The Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay (Zagami Mars Meteorite)] Ron Baalke wrote: > >LINCOLN, Neb., Aug. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- Now is your chance to own a rare 1.3 > >Billion year old piece of the Red Planet! The largest known specimen in > >circulation (188 grams) of the famous Mars rock Zagami, is owned by a private > >individual > > Sounds like they're getting their Mars meteorites mixed up. Zagami is a > shergottite, which is 180 million years old. Nakhilites, another > type of Mars meteorite, are 1.3 billion years old. Zagami is the largest > single Mars meteorite stone at 18 kg, or 40 pounds, when it fell in 1962. > So, this 188 gram fragment is roughly 1/100th of the original main mass, > though still rather sizeable for a Mars meteorite. > > >Some estimates value this specimen at over $2,000,000. > > That translates to over $10,000/gram, which is extremely optimistic. > That is about 20 to 30 times the current market rate for Zagami. > > >Out of 22,000 meteorites known to man, only 13 are actually > >known to be "Martian." > > There are currently 28 known Mars meteorites. > > Ron Baalke > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay (Zagami Mars Meteorite)
bah...zagami is now offer for $300-400/gr. for pieces at 3 gr., for a gr.188 piece is possible buy for $56,400, not $2393/gr. ask in the auction.My first slice of zagami I have buy for $800/gr. and fragment for $1000/gr. if this person want I have 500 gr. of DaG 670 for a good price. Regards Matteo --- Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030814/atthfns1_1.html The Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay sell2All, Inc. Press Release August 14, 2003 LINCOLN, Neb., Aug. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- Now is your chance to own a rare 1.3 Billion year old piece of the Red Planet! The largest known specimen in circulation (188 grams) of the famous Mars rock Zagami, is owned by a private individual, and will be auctioned on eBay beginning on September 5th by Sell2All, Inc., of Lincoln, Nebraska. Bidding starts at $450,000. Zagami fell to Earth October 3rd, 1962 in central Nigeria. Some estimates value this specimen at over $2,000,000. Displayed for several years in Nigeria's prestigious Kaduna Museum, one side is Museum cut to display the internal layers and another side has been left natural with a black flanked crust to show the fusion (actual burning and melting) of the rock as it passed at high speeds through the atmosphere while falling to earth. Referenced over 3000 times on internet search engines, this specimen has been shown all over the world. See NASA's website for the complete Zagami story at http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/curator/antmet/mmc/Zagami.pdf . Information and pictures are available at www.sell2all.com/mars . We are about to experience a phenomenon that will never occur again in our lifetime! Astronomers say this month Mars is getting closer to Earth and has not come this close (within 34,649,589 miles) in the last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years. On August 27 at 75-power magnification Mars may look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. The owner of this Zagami specimen is hoping to sell this rare specimen for an even closer look! Out of 22,000 meteorites known to man, only 13 are actually known to be Martian. Several Planetariums have expressed strong interest in owning this specific Zagami rock. The owners are hoping someone will buy it to donate to their favorite Planetarium in his or her honor. Also, private art collectors with everything who enjoy one-of-a-kind pieces could be potential buyers. Documentation of authenticity is provided by author and speaker John Saul, Ph.D., an Independent Registered Geologist who was selected as the meteorite expert by the scientific board which oversaw the drilling of the well known Siljan meteorite impact in Sweden. In the certification John states, I have never personally seen a finer specimen of any of the Mars Meteorites in the hands of a private individual. The meteorite was also authenticated by Jean-Claude Boulliard in 2001. Mr. Boulliard is curator of the mineral collection of the UPMC, which was formerly the collection in the Sorbonne in France. The authentication certificates are available on the website listed above. Sell2All, Inc., a large seller on the eBay marketplace, has been selling products on eBay since 1998. More information about Sell2All, Inc., can be found at www.sell2all.com. For Additional Information Contact: Rob Simon, Sell2All, Inc. Linda McClenny Susan Peterson 402 475-7653, ext 115 205 556-9537 978-646-9675 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] (Antarctica/desert weights) Meteorite Collecting Ban
Jeff and others, Could the effects of glacial movements up against the mountains in Antarctica actually keep a larger percentage of heavier pieces buried deeper in the ice longer, while a larger number of smaller pieces would have surfaced first? Since recovery teams have only been looking for 30 years...and this filtering process has been going on for 10's of thousands of years, maybe over time (a long time) the average size of the specimens found in Antarctica would go up. Obviously the rate of finds from previously searched areas would be a fraction of those early years. Such a phenomena would skew the mass ratios back toward the desert material sizes with the real number somewhere in between. I would agree the number would be probably a lot closer to the present Antarctica values. This generation of collectors may never know the answer. John As for rare meteorites, which I will define as non-ordinary-chondrites, there are 1550 from Antarctica and 467 from commercial collections. Let's refine the numbers a bit. Pretty much the start of hot desert collecting was in 1998. Of the numbers you quote above how many are since the start of 1998? Do the same pairing numbers Lindstrom estimated apply to the non-ordinary-chondrites? I don't have access to a database so Jeff if you could let us know I would appreciate it. The pairing numbers are based on the abundances of non-OC's. Since 1998, it's ~5:3 by number and 10:1 by mass in favor of commercial meteorites for rare types. The total is ~500 rare meteorites. Meteorites that formed strewn fields get just as many numbers in the Sahara as in Antarctica (one per specimen). I was under the impression that each specimen gets a separate designation in antarctica. If there was a witnessed fall in Antarctica such as bensour in Africa would it get a single name and entry in the catalog listing or would each stone found get a separate designation and entry? Each stone in BOTH places gets a separate designation. However, as I said, many Saharan meteorites are found as piles of rubble, so the reported number of pieces is high for some. Of course there are a few recent showers in Africa that have a single name. Observed falls in Antarctica would be treated the same as anywhere else: no numbers. I can't make that estimate. That is one of the reasons that I asked about the total mass of Antarctic meteorites. Statistically it would be reasonable to assume the ratio of OCs to other meteorite types would be similar. Certainly differences in weathering will affect the numbers some, but in gross approximation they should be somewhat similar. If there is 10 or 100 times as much mass coming out of the hot desert there should be 10 or 100 times the rare stuff, or at least 2 to 20 times. High mass strewn fields certainly could affect the statistics however neither region has many iron meteorites which would be most likely to affect the approximation. Stony falls aren't big enough that one fall should affect the gross approximation that much. Well, the mass issue is messy. By and large, small stones are not collected in Africa. Or at least, the ones that are never get looked at unless somebody thinks they're special. This is why the mass ratio of rare types is so much greater than the number ratio in the statistics above. The median size of commercial stones of rare types is ~160 g, whereas the same number for Antarctic ones is ~18 g. In Antarctica, all of the gram-sized stones have been collected (including many main masses in this size range!). So you're looking at an incredibly size-biased Saharan collection, and an Antarctic collection that more closely represents what actually falls. I think the Antarctic collection has about the correct number of irons (after correction for pairing) based on fall statistics . The Saharan material has been scavanged by man over the centuries, and the irons are apparently long gone. Of course, in terms of importance to science, the high mass of African/Omani meteorites is not the important issue. Most specimens of these that are deposited in scientific collections now weigh 20 g or less. This is a very hard number to get stats on, but I counted the Libyan and NWA's in the latest bulletin and found that the median size of rare meteorites deposited in collections is on the order of 15 g, which is actually about the same as the median Antarctic size. The rest is eventually destroyed as far as many scientists are concerned, or at least badly compromised. We can do a lot with a few grams (as we have always done with Antarctic meteorites), but future researchers will have precious little material to study, and nobody gets the chance to study hand-sample scale features once the specimen is sliced into a million bits. For Antarctic meteorites, this is the hand we were dealt. But for
Re: [meteorite-list] Spoof warning Additional, State Parks
Hi Sarah, Glad to see you made it back okay. A similar event happened to my wife and I a few years ago as we were approaching Claxton, GA. It's a nerve rattling feeling. -Walter -- www.branchmeteorites.com Walter Branch, Ph.D. Branch Meteorites PO Box 60492 Savannah, GA 31420 - Original Message - From: Jensan Scientifics/ Sci-Mall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 10:43 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Spoof warning Additional, State Parks Hello list, Life is not what it should be in the PayPal world, but that also applies to vacations and state parks. For those of you going West for vacation fun, as I usually do, the road can be hazardous. I had always wanted to visit Mt. St. Helens and so my kids and I decided to make a vacation out of it. We went up to see the crater at an observation point, then decided to helicopter into the crater to take a closer look. This is REALLY cool. There is actually a small waterfall in the crater. The helicopter guide pointed out some interesting features of the area. Alot of it was definitely more interesting from the air. Then I decided to take a back road from exit 504 headed to Yakima, Washington. So we get on the back side of Mt. St. Helens headed to Spirit Lake. Beautiful, luxurious overgrowth, small waterfalls, semi-pristine appearing land. This was about 7 o'clock at night, still had a 3 hour drive ahead. Still wanted to see the back side, though, having driven all the way from Wisconsin to see it all. Out of nowhere comes this conversion van with headlights on trying to touch my bumper, two big guys driving it. I hit the gas and again it does the same thing. Again and again I hit the gas. They never touch my bumper but try to get me to stop. In karate they teach you that your vehicle can be your weapon, if you do not have others. You never stop or put yourself in position to stop. I took the center of the road where they could not get along side of me. It finally dawned on me that car-jacking is real popular along the west coast and they wanted my Suburban. Fortunately it is a modern Suburban, but it also had modifications that made it faster then regular Suburbans. We were doing hairpin turns from 50-80 in a State Park. No one else on the road. Weird- No, planned on their part. In areas when we had roaming ability from our cell phone, they seemed to back off, but in void areas they were persistent. Later I found out from researching the web that there are at least 700 people that are missing in Washington state alone, and 100 unidentified bodies. According to many sources drugs are being grown on state park land, and hiking in beautiful places may not be so cool. They chased me all the way down the mountain and obviously never got me. I highly recommend fast driving skills through many parts of America, unfortunately. I was glad my teenage son was not driving. (He even admits that) Something like this makes a vacation a NOT vacation. I was glad to get home. The object of this post is like paypal, even meteorites, sometimes, things are not as simple as they should be. Trust your instincts. Even resorts may not be resorts. And where is a policeman (or state park trooper) when you need one? Best, Sarah Jensan Scientifics/ Science Mall --- Charles R. Viau wrote: The thing to remember about messages from PayPal, is that they rarely ever send you unsolicited mail, and if they do, there is never a link in the message that invokes a login to the site. If you do ever get a message from them requesting information from you, just examine the mail header (in Outlook, just right-click on the message in the inbox folder and select options). Look at the received: line information and you can see if the sender was original, or faked. The real Domain name and the IP address of the actual sender will show up linked to any phony or forged sender address. Also, never go into PayPal in your browser, unless the URL starts with https// (not http//) like in: https://www.paypal.com...; It is almost impossible for hackers like this to be able to use SSL to authenticate their bogus web sites. You can prove this by first making sure you disable Active-x and Java scripting in your browser, then attempt to invoke the bogus PayPal link. The address box in the top of the browser will show http://;, and the rest of the URL may start with something like playpal.com followed by a bunch of directory entries that wind up pointing you to a bogus ASP script that will suck up your password. (you have disabled scripting, so the page will not show up the way it normally would). CharlyV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Farmer Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:07 AM To: Matson, Robert;
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: PayPal spoof warning
Hello, Robert, you can forward the e-mail recived with full headers to; [EMAIL PROTECTED] PayPal is never asking your information by e-mail, these spoofs are usually routed via different servers just in mening to get your PayPal password or, like in this case, also your credit-card and bank-account information. Some of these spoofs look very sophistic ones, and all other links except the form are linked to the real PayPal -site. take care, pekka Matson, Robert wrote: Hi All, I probably don't need to warn most of you, but just to cover the bases I thought I would post a message here since many of you probably use PayPal. Some enterprising individual(s) is/are attempting to trick PayPal customers into revealing detailed account information. Usually these spoofs are pretty unsophisticated, but the one I got today looked official enough that someone might get fooled. It starts off with: This e-mail is the notification of recent innovations taken by PayPal to detect inactive customers and non-functioning mailboxes. The inactive customers are subject to restriction and removal in the next 3 months. Please confirm your email address and credit card information by logging in to your PayPal account using the form below: - - - - A form appears with boxes for email address, password, name, credit card #, expiration date, and ATM PIN (for bank verification). It finishes with the somewhat official-looking paragraphs: This PayPal notification was sent to your mailbox. Your PayPal account is set up to receive the PayPal Periodical newsletter and product updates when you create your account. To modify your notification preferences and unsubscribe, go to https://www.paypal.com/PREFS-NOTI and log in to your account. Changes to your preferences may take several days to be reflected in our mailings. Replies to this email will not be processed. Copyright© 2003 PayPal Inc. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners. - - - If they hadn't been so stupid to ask for my ATM PIN, I might have been a little less suspicious. Just wonder if this should this be reported somewhere that handles fraud cases? --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Fw: [meteorite-list] Roman meteorite impact forced Cristianity
- Original Message - From: Jose Campos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 10:48 PM Subject: Fw: [meteorite-list] Roman meteorite impact forced Cristianity Hi List, As a Portuguese, I am able to give you a more detailed translation of the article: It is interesting that, as much as in Sencinaro's legend as in Constantino's vision, the event may have apparently occurred in the afternoon, when the Sun began its decline. An epigraph found at the place of the impact my lead it to Constantino. But nowadays it's impossible to tell if the flaming cross that the imperor saw ties up with the event of Sirente, although the geographical proximity and its time span makes it a case for an interesting possibility, - affirmed the Italian. As per Santilli, it is less than half a century since scientists understood what happens when a celestial object hits the Earth. The environmental and social consequences from these impacts would depend on who observes them, and when. The discovery of the Sirente's crater, - says the archeologist, - offers a rare possibility for a direct connection between field observations and a legend preserved during more than 15 centuries. The confusion about the choice of religion, at that period of time, may have been affected by a natural spectacular phenomenon, - says Santilli. (end of translation). I would like to add a few remarks: The article in Portuguese was written by a brasilian newsmen, Claudio Angelo, for the brasilian newspaper Folha de S. Paulo (13/07/2003) and it is approximately 4 A4 size pages.The above translation is the last page of the article. The crater of Sirente was recently discovered by a team headed by a Sweddish astrobiologist, Jens Ormö, Instituto Nacional de Técnica Aeroespacial, Spain. It is the first meteorite crater identified in Italy. Anyone interested in more info on the article, please let me know. I have recently read an article about this event. José Campos Portugal [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: M come Meteorite Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Steve Schoner [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Charles R. Viau [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 7:57 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Roman meteorite impact forced Cristianity Hello Hard to find pieces of the meteorite, for the moment any piace is found, and is hard to go for research why is a protect area where it is not possible to dig without to have allowed regards Matteo --- Steve Schoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's get some field collectors out there and get some of Constantine's meteorite samples. Now that would be great. Steve Schoner/ams --- Charles R. Viau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The quote was as intriguing as the subject... first thought it was Latin, then Italian, but it is Portuguese. Thanks for that bit of immortal history, it goes in my permanent archives as very interesting meteorite lore -CharlyV IMCA 4351 Thus: -Translated: It is interesting that, so much in the legend of Sencinaro I eat in the vision of Constantino, the event apparently have occurred in the period from the afternoon, when the Sun began decline it. An epígrafe found nearby the localities of the impact can cause to Constantino. But today it is impossible himself say the flaming cross that the imperador saw beats with the event of Sirente, although the geographical proximity and storm do of that an interesting possibility, affirmed the Italian. Second Santilli, there is less than environment century the scientists began understand it happens what when a celestial object reaches the Land. The social and environmental consequences of those impacts would depend whose observes them, and when. The discovery from the crater of Sirente, affirms the archeologist, offers a rare possibility of straight connection between observations of field and a legend preserved during more of 15 centuries. To tangle about the choice from the religion in that period may have been affected by a spectacular natural phenomenon, affirms Santilli. -end Translate -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 7:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Roman meteorite impact forced Cristianity A meteorite impact of the IV century AD might have converted Constantine and spread the expansion of Cristianity. The impact site is located in the Abruzzo (Italy)inside the Sirente Velino Regional Park, near Rome. Research has been carried out by the italian archaeologist Roberto
[meteorite-list] NWA 801
NWA 801 is available as a CR2, and looks like a pretty and interesting meteorite - but unless I'm missing something, it still has not been officially recognized in a MetSoc Bulletin. I did find an "official" mention of it here: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2003/pdf/5238.pdf .but it's just that specimens were studied for a copper isotope examination, listed as part of the 66th Annual MetSoc meeting in 2003. The 801 number would suggest it goes back to 2001 or so, anyone know why it seems to have been passed over for official recognition/publication? Also wanting to know who classified it, and when, and where? Thanks - Gregory
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Almost Hits 10-Year-Old Boy In Australia
http://www.news24houston.com/content/headlines/?ArID=12416SecID=2 Meteorite almost hit 10-year-old boy Associated Press August 10, 2003 Sydney, Australia (AP) -- Jennifer Ellis says a suspected meteorite narrowly missed her ten-year-old son. She says her son Anthony was playing outside their home near Perth, Australia when he noticed an oddly shaped object in the sky, about the size of a bird, heading toward him. The boy ducked behind a car. Jennifer Ellis says the object smashed into the driveway and shattered, leaving a large hole in the driveway. Her son was not hurt. Ellis plans to send some of the flying debris to the Perth Observatory for testing. -- http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/10/1060454067379.html 'Meteorite' narrowly misses Perth boy The Sydney Morning Herald August 10, 2003 Fragments of what could be a meteorite which narrowly missed a 10-year-old boy when it smashed into his driveway would be scientifically tested in Perth, the youngster's mother said today. Anthony Elliss-Galati saw an odd-shaped object in the sky, heading towards him on Thursday as he played outside his Safety Bay home, about 50km south of Perth. Anthony told his mother Jennifer Elliss he hid behind her car and watched the bird-sized object smash a hole in the driveway and shatter. I heard something hit the bitumen and then Anthony came inside and said there were rocks coming out of the sky, Ms Elliss said. He then handed me a piece and it didn't look like a normal rock - it was dull on the inside and silver on the outside and looked as if it had melted. Ms Elliss said she went outside and was surprised at the large hole the flying debris had left. Anthony said he had seen it coming across the park and had to duck down behind my car to avoid being hit by it, she said. Ms Elliss said although it was not massive, she believed the object was a meteorite. The pieces look exactly like a real meteorite I saw when I was a kid. Ms Elliss has contacted the WA Museum and the Perth Observatory and will be taking the fragments to Perth tomorrow to have them scientifically tested. --- http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6902384%255E662,00.html Down to earth The Herald Sun (Australia) August 10, 2003 A BOY has narrowly escaped being struck by a suspected meteorite. Anthony Elliss-Galati, 10, was standing in the driveway of his Perth home when a rock came hurtling out of the sky. I saw it coming and it was getting closer and closer and I couldn't see if it was a bird or a jet or a plane, but it was coming straight at me so I jumped out the way real quick, he said. Anthony went running into the house to his mother Jennifer, yelling: Mum, there are rocks coming out of the sky. Ms Elliss said she found a dent in the driveway surrounded by fragments of rock with a silver shine. She has con tacted the WA Museum to determine if the fragments came from a meteorite or some space junk. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Hundreds Report Burning Meteor Over Australia
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s919114.htm Hundreds report burning meteor Australian Broadcasting Corporation August 7, 2003 Astronomers say it is unlikely the remnants of a blazing meteor seen by hundreds of people last night have landed on earth. The Perth Observatory was flooded with hundreds of phone calls from residents in the Goldfields, wheatbelt, and Great Southern when the meteor appeared about 6:20pm AWST yesterday. Astronomer Peter Birch says they reported a bright light with a long tail lasting between five and 10 seconds. He says the meteor would have completely vapourised 100 kilometres from the ground as it entered the earth's atmosphere. It would have only been the size something like...a football at maximum, maybe only the size of a cricket ball, he said. But it's come in at such speed that it's actually burnt up in the atmosphere, it's got very hot, and it's vapourised, and when these things happen, they get very bright and people can see them from a long way. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Antarctic meteorite stats
Considering that there has been a scientific presence on the Antarctic ice cap for the past 30+ years, a good place to start might be: How many witnessed falls are there from Antarctica? Even from remote locations in the taiga and Yukon, there have been documented falls in that length of time. And in the last couple of years alone, there have been at least 2 falls I can think of from the Saharan areas. Tracy Latimer From: Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'almitt' [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Antarctic meteorite stats Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 18:36:18 -0700 Hi All, On the question of the total mass of all Antarctic meteorites, Al commented: This is and would be an important consideration. I have noticed that a lot of the Antarctic falls are sometimes very small. Total mass would shed an interesting correlation to non-Antarctic finds. ... Also the Antarctic falls are from hundreds and thousands of years ago. Perhaps as much as 800,000 years ago, so there is a concentration of the falls on the ice sheets which may be distorting the numbers more. This is part of the reason that despite the huge number of statistical samples from Antarctica, it would be very difficult to compute an accurate annual meteorite fall rate from them. Among the many factors you would have to consider: 1. Movement of the ice sheets over tens of thousands of years. Where meteorites are found today is not easily correlated to where they actually fell. A square kilometer of a particular patch of ice today may correspond to a quite different size and shape for that surface in the past. You also have zones of concentration, where large effective collection areas have been compressed into small strips. Searching 1 km^2 of such a surface may be the equivalent of searching 10, 100, or even a 1000 km^2. 2. Variable meteorite fall rate over the last half-million or more years. The long lifetime of meteorites in Antarctica means that any derived fall rate will represent an average over that lifetime. It is likely that the flux today is different from what it was several hundred thousand years ago. I doubt that scientists have done terrestrial age dating on more than a tiny fraction of Antarctic finds, so you have both the uncertainty of the average age of all your samples and the temporal variability in the flux rate. 3. Pairing uncertainty. Geographical location of the finds doesn't help you much if the surface doesn't stay put. ;-) Pairing of rare types can at least give you a good estimate of the average number of specimens per fall (somewhere in the range of 3-6), so this ratio can simply be applied to the common types. With these factors in mind, has anyone attempted to estimate the annual fall rate derived from the number of Antarctic meteorite finds? Cheers, Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Where I put?
How about class C mesosiderite? Or then you have to split the specimen in 2 parts, other part to mesos, other to diogenites...;- take care, pekka M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote: My slice of NWA 1827 Mesosiderite-Diogenite in my collection site? Under the Mesosiderite section or under achondrite diogenites section Regards Matteo = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Antarctic meteorite stats
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With these factors in mind, has anyone attempted to estimate the annual fall rate derived from the number of Antarctic meteorite finds? Rob raises a very good question. If the answer turns out to be, Yes, it was attempted, but various factors worked against obtaining a valid number, then that leaves us with only one remaining dense collection area from which stats can be used to estimate the annual fall rate. What Rob is leading us to conclude, is that the only remaining areas for this type of study, are the dry lakes of the Mojave Desert. What this means is that Mojave Desert meteorite finds should be the focus of a concerted terrestrial age-dating effort. To this end, I am making each and every one of my finds available to cosmogenic radioisotope (age-dating) researchers. In addition, pertinent field data is being recorded by all of the meteorite-recovery searchers. Not just find coordinates, but even if no finds were made, we are recording the man-hours spent searching and the exact area searched (in the form of GPS Tracklogs, as per Rob's request). Every fragment is documented and examined closely, because accurate pairings are crucial. It is quite remarkable the degree of response that is given by all the volunteers, regardless of their background, to these requests for various types of field data. Although most of this field work is conducted by volunteers on an individual basis (usually no more than two-people per team), the real team work comes about when the data is tabulated and then reported to the m-recovery Group. It helps to remind each other that there is no detail too small, and that all of our efforts are useful regardless of success at making a find. It's nice to know that all this record keeping will eventually be of some value to somebody, someday. Bob V. - [meteorite-list] Antarctic meteorite stats Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri, 8 Aug 2003 18:36:18 -0700 Next message: [meteorite-list] Antarctic meteorite stats Hi All, On the question of the total mass of all Antarctic meteorites, Al commented: This is and would be an important consideration. I have noticed that a lot of the Antarctic falls are sometimes very small. Total mass would shed an interesting correlation to non-Antarctic finds. ... Also the Antarctic falls are from hundreds and thousands of years ago. Perhaps as much as 800,000 years ago, so there is a concentration of the falls on the ice sheets which may be distorting the numbers more. This is part of the reason that despite the huge number of statistical samples from Antarctica, it would be very difficult to compute an accurate annual meteorite fall rate from them. Among the many factors you would have to consider: 1. Movement of the ice sheets over tens of thousands of years. Where meteorites are found today is not easily correlated to where they actually fell. A square kilometer of a particular patch of ice today may correspond to a quite different size and shape for that surface in the past. You also have zones of concentration, where large effective collection areas have been compressed into small strips. Searching 1 km^2 of such a surface may be the equivalent of searching 10, 100, or even a 1000 km^2. 2. Variable meteorite fall rate over the last half-million or more years. The long lifetime of meteorites in Antarctica means that any derived fall rate will represent an average over that lifetime. It is likely that the flux today is different from what it was several hundred thousand years ago. I doubt that scientists have done terrestrial age dating on more than a tiny fraction of Antarctic finds, so you have both the uncertainty of the average age of all your samples and the temporal variability in the flux rate. 3. Pairing uncertainty. Geographical location of the finds doesn't help you much if the surface doesn't stay put. ;-) Pairing of rare types can at least give you a good estimate of the average number of specimens per fall (somewhere in the range of 3-6), so this ratio can simply be applied to the common types. With these factors in mind, has anyone attempted to estimate the annual fall rate derived from the number of Antarctic meteorite finds? Cheers, Rob -- __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA 801
Not sure why this Subject keeps reoccurring on the List. Also, not sure why we are troubling Jeff about meteorites that haven't been submitted to his Committee ... it's simple... go to this web page to see if it has been approved: http://meteoriticalsociety.org/bulletin/master-index-2003.pdf And if it doesn't appear on that web page, then go to this web page: http://meteoriticalsociety.org/bulletin/prov-names.html If it doesn't appear here, then it hasn't been assigned a number below NWA 1691. If it was assigned a number that is higher than NWA 1691, then it is probably still waiting to be included in the next update of this web page. Questions regarding unclassified NWAs should be directed to the person that requested the NWA number. The prov-names web page (only) lists the people that requested the NWA number. No classifier will automatically submit classifications to the NomComm without first contacting the person that submitted the NWA specimen (usually the person that requested the NWA number). ***Typically, the person that requested the NWA number from the NomCom, will be the same person that reports the classification to the NomComm. *** The NomComm will contact the classifier, not so much to confirm the classification, but to confirm HOW MUCH type specimen was secured. I'm convinced that this simple procedure is more widely understood than many of the people who feign misunderstanding the process would lead you to believe. Lord, I do hope so! Bob V. --- meteorite-list] NWA 801 / Begaa [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun, 10 Aug 2003 15:37:41 EDT Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 801 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As of last spring, nobody had submitted a classification for [NWA 801] to the NomCom. Perhaps it has come in since, but no vote has occurred. Despite the official reference, the meteorite name remains unofficial. Jeff, is this essentially the same thing that happened with Begaa? Thanks - Gregory - __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hello, all, the ball lightning could be one explanation. In Finland this phenomenon has stuidied, and some scientists says, a lightning ball could in fact be burning flint. Anyway, its very difficult to study this phenomenon, but it should; - fly free in the air - move slowly and stay at least several seconds, maximum up to minutes - size from couple of cm:s to couple of meters - can explose After / during ball lightnings has been found at least vaporised metals and carbon. So if the theory about the burning flint happens to be true, in Elma-case this makes sense to me. First the free flight in the air, the explosion when grounded, and the result is these X-files fragments. But as Adam said, it might be worthless to speculate before have some more from the labs. take care, pekka Mark Jackson wrote: Dear List, I personally witnessed ball lightning in the AZ desert only 6 months ago and it wasprobably the most intense and dramatic event I've ever witnessed.Ball lightningdoes exist and itcan last for several minutes; the one I saw lasted over two full minutes. As a matter of fact, the one I witnessed actually buried itself in the earth so it could not be seen directly but only by the reflections of colored light from the clouds above it. Really REALLY weird stuff whatever it is. Kindest Regards, Mark Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[meteorite-list] Ad - 132 plus ebay auctions ending
Dear List Members, We have several auctions that are scheduled to end shortly. As usual there are several bargains to be had and plenty of rare material. Here is a link if you are interested: http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/meteoritelab/ Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Adam and Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection IMCA 2185 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] 4 AUCTIONS
Hi list.I have 4 auctions ending later today.Some nice items, cheap.Bid while you can.Don't forget the item I put up last nite. steve = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NEW BLOOD
Dear Terry, and other involved List-members, I'm really glad you made that post. It's great to know there are people like yourself, who not only have an avid interest in educating the kids (big, little, young, and old) in Meteorites,and fossils, but so thoroughly enjoys, putting the dreams and star-like twinkle in their eyes, or back into their eyes. If I had a dollar for every kid I've heard say I'm Bored, I'd have a collection that would rival anyone elses! Meteorite study, education, and hunting can do that. It's a constructive, fun, exciting thing to do for them, and for the person taking them. It's a place to go anytime, that doesn't involve wasted thought and worry on how messed up, this world can seem to them. A Special Place to be. It's been my observation too, that I very rarely find someone who is uneffected. Hope to hear more from you, time to time, on your effort and reward. Will be watching for your new site. To all of you.keep up the good work. Highest Regards, Gratitude and Respect, Marcie ---BeginMessage--- Greetings. This is my first post, and I wanted to chime in and say that I am not sure there is anything more important than what you all are doing right now with children! For the last 7 years, I have been going to schools that my children attend (and others) to teach different classes about meteorites and fossils. For the last 5 years, I have left substantial portions of my meteorite and fossil collections at many schools for the teachers to use. I also volunteer at other schools and camps in the area doing meteorite and fossil shows. My last show for 15 ten year olds at a conservation camp two weeks ago was outstanding. I brought in many pieces of my collection, including a 26 kilo Sikhote Alin, a 35 kilo NWA, a 1.92 gram piece NWA 1195 Martian, Allende, Park Forest (I live in Illinois) and many others. You should have seen their faces when I let them each hold a real piece of Mars! I think the counselors were even more amazed. They were adults acting like kids! I talked about the process of Lunar and Martian meteorites making it to earth, the Amino acids in Murchison, Star Dust in Allende, a large meteorite possibly ending the reign of the dinosaur, etc! All of the kids are sitting in amazement (as were the adults!). I also showed the kids what a meteorite stick was and bit about how to hunt for meteorites. The next day, the camp went hiking and all day the kids were looking for meteorites with magnets and a few meteorite sticks that I let them borrow. 5 parents separately commented that it was all their kid talked about all night, that they were going out to buy magnets, and two told me I had created a meteorite monster! At the end of the show, I gave each child and each counselor a small (10-15 gram) Sikhote Alin with a label from MeteoriteLabels.com. The investment to me was more than worth it! They were all thrilled and amazed. They each went home with an amazing rock from space; something they will remember (hopefully!) for a very long time. I think some of the adults at my shows view my interest in meteorites as a bit eccentric. I get very animated and passionate when I talk. But I have never seen a kid react with anything but sheer joy, genuine amazement, and complete intrigue at the possibilities surrounding meteorites. I have seen the spark many times in children, and if I have been able to further their imagination through my shows, that is a great gift to me. P.S., If some of you have some spare time (which I do as I have been fortunate to retire very early), it is not only children that love this. Take and hour of your day and do a show at a retirement home with the elderly. Watch them turn into little kids :-) All the best to the list. I find your collective information of great help to me, as it educates me and helps me get the proper information to the people who are just learning of this great hobby! Terry Boudreaux StarMeteorites (no web site yet, but coming soon :-)) ---End Message---
[meteorite-list] Holy cow things are selling CHEAP
Where are all you big spenders? I have so many items ending, so many going so cheap! LL3's at $2 gram! Millbillillie at $6 gram! Chondrites for less than 10 CENTS a gram. CR2 at $4 GRAM! Allende at $2 gram! Juancheng stone for 80 CENTS a gram! and on and on and on. They are all ending RIGHT NOW. Go bid or don't whine about prices to me! These are the lowest prices I have ever had meteorites sell for, bargain city today. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2186081309category=3239rd=1 http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Mike Farmer
Re: [meteorite-list] Where I put?
Well, to be a bit more serious, this seems to be much like Reckling Peak 80246, and in the Cataloque of Meteorites RKP80246 is listed under the mesosiderites. pekka M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote: My slice of NWA 1827 Mesosiderite-Diogenite in my collection site? Under the Mesosiderite section or under achondrite diogenites section Regards Matteo = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] info req-August Meteorite issue
Any info on where to buy/order August issue of Meteorite would be sincerely appreciated. Tried to contact publisher without sucess. Thanks for assistance. Ann Hernandez 323 Niagara Park Forest IL 60466 Annie Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Norwood Square Shopping center , Park Forest Update
Wow, I searched the heck out of that whole area, even the water treatment plant, without success. My pieces were found in the Streets of Steger. Congratulations, it just further proves that we never find all of the pieces of these large falls, and the only way to find a piece is to GO HUNT them. Mike Farmer in stormy Washington DC - Original Message - From: Mark Jackson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Norwood Square Shopping center , Park Forest Update Bob And List, The meteorite was behind the main building withinan area that had been completely fenced off for some reason (it's half fenced off now). Just laying in the middle of the asphalt. I'm very sorry you had no luck Bob, but it was worth a shot. Kindest Regards, Mark Do you Yahoo!?Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hi Tom and List, The problem with this material is that it does not contain any metal. If it was in a reducing environment why isn't there any metal, even at microprobe levels? This almost certainly eliminates this material coming from an industrial process, at least none that I have ever heard of. If it came from a foundry why wasn't the sand melted in the center. The sand is also trapped in sealed vesicles, that look almost like chondrules, like a condensation product, which is extremely odd. It was extremely difficult to make thin-sections of this stuff because of the friability of the material trapped inside. Will update as we get more results, Adam - Original Message - From: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteor central [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hello All, This Elma stuff sounds like a metal casting bi-product from a foundry. Is there a foundry in our around Elma? Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: mafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteor central [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and smoldering pieces of basaltic glass with sand inside, sounds like some atmospheric event - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hi Mike, Mike and List, The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It could prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. The jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was created. The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has been reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass shell. The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what ever created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was quenched very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might have been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is looking more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we are keeping an open mind regarding this material. All the best, Adam and Greg Hupe - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a meteorite was recovered there. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Everyone- Is this all said and done with or is the jury still out with any maybe's? Thanks, Mike __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Spoof warning Additional, State Parks
Hello List, AL wrote; You needed Mr. Smith and Wesson. One shot through the windshield usually gets most idiots to back off!! In today's world, you have to decide, would you rather your family die or them. Sarah did the right thing, but you have to even the odds. I will not go anywhere with my family without my firearm! But, I am one of the lucky ones, I live in Arizona, where they care more about there law abiding citizens than there outlaws! Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: almitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Spoof warning Additional, State Parks Ahhh Sarah and all, You needed Mr. Smith and Wesson. One shot through the windshield usually gets most idiots to back off!! Of course they might have been armed as well but I think if they were they would have used that option. It is a dangerous area for a lot of reasons. Glad you made it back safe and I wouldn't loose sleep over it as it now makes you more experienced and better equipped to handle future events like that. Had something similar like that happen to me one time. --AL __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hi Tom, No glass manufacturing process would use this kind of sand because of it impurities and why would glass be spread into a shot-put pit where kids could get cut on the sharp edges? I am not going to speculate too much more until we get more lab results. Two other labs have weighed in on this occurrence and it just keeps getting odder. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hello All, How about a glass manufacturing bi-product? Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hi Tom and List, The problem with this material is that it does not contain any metal. If it was in a reducing environment why isn't there any metal, even at microprobe levels? This almost certainly eliminates this material coming from an industrial process, at least none that I have ever heard of. If it came from a foundry why wasn't the sand melted in the center. The sand is also trapped in sealed vesicles, that look almost like chondrules, like a condensation product, which is extremely odd. It was extremely difficult to make thin-sections of this stuff because of the friability of the material trapped inside. Will update as we get more results, Adam - Original Message - From: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteor central [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hello All, This Elma stuff sounds like a metal casting bi-product from a foundry. Is there a foundry in our around Elma? Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: mafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteor central [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and smoldering pieces of basaltic glass with sand inside, sounds like some atmospheric event - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hi Mike, Mike and List, The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It could prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. The jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was created. The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has been reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass shell. The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what ever created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was quenched very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might have been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is looking more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we are keeping an open mind regarding this material. All the best, Adam and Greg Hupe - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a meteorite was recovered there. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Everyone- Is this all said and done with or is the jury still out with any maybe's? Thanks, Mike __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __
[meteorite-list] Re: [meteoritecollectorsassociation] Thailand Analysis results of hematite
Ken and all: The analysis results of the Thailand hematite is as follows: Sample #1 SiO2 2.63% FeO 92.69% CoO 3.78% NiO 0.00% CuO 0.90% Sample #2 MgO 5.13% Al2O3 6.14% SiO2 5.35% FeO 79.67% CoO 2.90% NiO 0.00% CuO 0.82% Sample #3 MgO 7.98% Al2O3 13.45% SiO2 17.36% FeO 52.63% CoO 3.80% NiO 0.10% CuO 4.68% Analysis was done using ASEM. These are preliminary results and should not be quoted or publicized. Use of this data without prior written consent is prohibited. Please Contact me if you need more information. Sincerely, Dirk RossTokyo Dirk, I am interested in the test results. thanks, Ken Newton drtanuki wrote: > > Dear List: > The "Mekong Iron" is typically magnetite (black streak) and the > hematite from other Thai locations also being sold as "Mekong Iron" > has a red streak when tested. I have chemical analysis results and > many samples from Thailand. If anyone is interested please let me > know. Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > There's more than one way to skin a cat without getting bloody. > > Joel > > Goleman > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > -- > > > > Subject: Question from eBay Member > > Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 01:16:39 PDT > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To member: nibbin96 > > >From member: volute > > > > > > > > > > I wonder if Matteo, the Italian meteorite dealer, is correct > > regarding his below comment? If you wish to find out, you could > > check out "streak test" on http://www.Google.com. You could then > > scrape your purchase hard against the UNGLAZED underside of a white > > porcelain toilet top and check the color of the resulting streak. > > According to all of the web sites' info that appears to pertain, > > black equals magnetite;red-brown equals hematite. From: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Wed, > > Aug 6, 2003, 12:15am (EDT-3) To: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: > > [meteoritecollectorsassociation] Poor buyer > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2186243985category=3239rd=1 > > > > have give $208 for a piece of hematite or magnetite.. > > Regards > > Matteo > > = > > M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato > > Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com > > Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International > > Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite > > > > > > > > This email was sent by an eBay member via eBay's email forwarding > > system. > > If you reply to the email, your response will go directly to the > > member and > > not through eBay. > > > > eBay does not tolerate spam (i.e., unsolicited commercial email) and > > is > > taking steps to protect members from this abuse. In addition, > > solicitations > > to buy or sell items outside of eBay violate eBay rules and are not > > covered > > by services that protect members such as feedback, insurance, > > escrow, and > > dispute resolution. If this is an offer to buy/sell items outside of > > eBay, > > please do not participate. Enter the following link into your > > browser to learn more. Link: > > http://pages.ebay.com/help/new/stopping_spam.html > > >
[meteorite-list] CANCEL INFO REQ-METEORITE MAG
Thanks to (as always) helpful members who provided me the info I needed. I'm new to this stuff and am amazed at how informative and helpful everyone has been. Residing in Park Forest I'm enjoying learning so much about our fall and the world of meteorites. Annie Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] List arguments
I sure am glad that I am leaving for California to hike the John Muir this coming Friday...No Phones, No email and best of all...NO LIST ARGUMENTS!!! I will be back on September 15th. Best wishes to all of you for as peaceful coming month as I am going to have. Jim Strope421 Fourth StreetGlen Dale, WV 26038 Catch a Falling Star Meteoriteshttp://www.catchafallingstar.com
[meteorite-list] AD Another $6000+ one cent ebay sale!
Well folks, I have loaded another huge meteorite sale ending tomorrow. 60 items, over $6000 worth of meteorites all loaded for one cent starting bid! No reserves for me. Where they end, they sell. For those of you who like oriented stones, here are some to take a good look at! Here is a 111 gram sikhote-alin, so many flow lines! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2187283726category=3239rd=1 Here is a 390 gram beautiful nosecone of NWA 788, another superb flight-oriented specimen perfect even for any museum display. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2187289995category=3239rd=1 And some other large rare items such as: A 2,070 gram complete slice of the TATA (IIIAB) iron! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2187291817category=3239rd=1 And a .04 gram fragment of NWA 998, Nakhlite! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2187287174category=3239rd=1 Take a look, bid away, this is a great sale of first-class specimens! Mike Farmer
[meteorite-list] Great Ball Of Fire Lights Up New Zealand Sky
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2600500a11,00.html Great ball of fire lights up Aucklanders' lives www.stuff.co.nz 06 August 2003 A spectacular fireball blazed across the northern sky yesterday, a piece of the more than 30,000 tonnes of the normally invisible space junk that hits Earth each year. Observers in Auckland and from as far away as Whangarei described a flaming, bright-red fireball with a long white tail shooting across the sky from the northeast just before 6pm. One man in Auckland suburb Orakei, who reported the sight to One Tree Hill Stardome Observatory, said the meteor appeared to remain bright as it disappeared over the horizon. Another man, who was driving towards the Auckland Harbour Bridge, said it was amazing. I saw the white light first and then it flared into a green flash. I've never seen a green like it before. Stardome spokeswoman Angela Doherty said the fireball, described as having a lingering white tail, was a piece of either human space junk or space rock that wandered just a bit too close to Earth. Wellington's Carter Observatory spokesman John Field said it would be difficult to gauge the size of the meteor but said it could have been as big as a fist or the size of a person's head. No one had been killed by a meteor but in 1911 one was blamed for causing the death of a dog, he said. Most space debris simply fell harmlessly and invisibly to the ground, heating up and burning as it entered the atmosphere before dropping to earth. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 801 / Begaa
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As of last spring, nobody had submitted a classification [NWA 801] to the NomCom. Perhaps is has come in since, but no vote has occurred. Despite the "official" reference, the meteorite name remains unofficial. Jeff, is this essentially the same thing that happened with "Begaa"? Thanks - Gregory
[meteorite-list] Park Forest Meteorite Goes On Display At Chicago Field Museum
http://www.starnewspapers.com/star/spnews/news/10-sp3.htm Meterorite goes on display at Field Museum By Erika Enigk The Star (Illinois) August 10, 2003 Pieces of a meteorite that landed in Park Forest in March are now on display at Chicago's Field Museum. Village officials and staff viewed the space rocks, which fell to the Earth on March 27, during a reception at the museum on Aug. 2. Trustee Harold Brown said Olivier Rieppel, chairman and curator of the museum's geology department, welcomed the group. The group viewed the meteorite after a slide presentation by Meenakshi Wadhwa, associate curator of meteorics. At the top of the glass case, it says, 'It came from outer space: the Park Forest meteorite,' Brown said. I thought it was great. Wadhwa said the meteorite most likely came from the asteroid belt and is about 4.5 billion years old. Scientists can estimate the age in the same way they estimate the age of Earth rocks, she said. You use the decay of radioactive isotopes as a clock, she said. It's a standard procedure for Earth rocks as well. The rock was likely on the outside of a larger rock in the asteroid belt, where asteroids are constantly colliding, Wadhwa said. Pieces broke off and began their own elliptical orbits, until the rock's orbit met the Earth's. When the stony meteorite that eventually fell into pieces upon Park Forest entered the Earth's atmosphere, it was about two or three meters long, the size of a car, Wadhwa said. Gravity, velocity and friction from the atmosphere caused it to break into pieces at the rock's weak zones, she said. It's more common to see that happening in stony types of meteorites, she said. Iron meteorites tend not to break into as many smaller pieces. The largest known meteorite is an iron meteorite about the size of a car, she said. Meteorite pieces fell all over the South Suburbs, she said. It fell all the way from Crete to Olympia Fields, village manager Janet Muchnik said. The Park Forest event was the first time a meteorite has fallen in such a populated area, Wadhwa said. However, there are reports of meteorite events every year, she said. There's something like 100 tons of stuff that falls on the Earth every day from outer space, she said, much of which are dust-like particles. Wadhwa said the meteorite event has been important for the scientific community. Just about everything we know about the beginning of our planet comes from studying meteorites like this one, she said. What's been wonderful is how this event has increased public interest in meteorites. The Field Museum is preserving the meteorite pieces in a climate-controlled environment, but Muchnik said several Park Forest residents still have other pieces in their homes. Wadhwa offered words of wisdom to those people for the care and handling of the items. The metal in meteorites tends to rust quickly, she said, so the rocks should be in a cool, dry place. People can keep moisture from getting to them by putting the rocks in a plastic bag, then putting that bag inside another plastic bag containing silica gel. We store a lot of our meteorites that way, she said. People also should resist the temptation to touch the meteorites, she said. Sweat from your fingers will corrode the metal, she said. Erika Enigk may be reached at (708) 802-8847 or via e-mail at [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 801
We consider the classifier and the owner to be a team, for all intents and purposes. However, if a researcher wants to publish, it becomes his or her responsibility to make sure that approval has been granted. I'll have to look into Begaa tomorrow. jeff At 08:56 PM 8/10/2003 +0200, Alexander Seidel wrote: Just curious: Is it the classifying institute´s responsibility to submit a completed classification to the NomCom in time to get ready for future work, or is it the responsibility of the dealer/finder/supplier to do so, when he knows of any results from the analysing institute? Or is this a sort of a nonsense question, from the viewpoint of the NomCom... :-) Btw: this is, what I was thinking of when I made that P.S. remark about that Begaa stone with my last post. Alex Berlin, Germany Jeff Grossman wrote: This meteorite is listed in the Provisional Names page: http://meteoriticalsociety.org/bulletin/prov-names.html It appears to be a Farmer meteorite with type specimen at UCLA. As of last spring, nobody had submitted a classification to the NomCom. Perhaps is has come in since, but no vote has occurred. Despite the official reference, the meteorite name remains unofficial. A few abstracts in this conference reference unapproved meteorites. Next year, firm guidelines will be in place that we hope will prevent this from happening any more. jeff At 08:18 PM 8/10/2003 +0200, Alexander Seidel wrote: This meteorite is also missing in the very latest update of MetBase, version 6.0, just a few days ago released by it´s author Joern Koblitz, who is one of the members of the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society. In fact, there is a gap in the NWA datasets counting from NWA 780 to NWA 816, and there are probably other gaps, too, in all the numbers known so far. This surely is for good reason and perhaps Jeff Grossman may comment on this, if he likes to do so. Alex Berlin, Germany P.S., on a side note: I wonder why that meteorite once inofficially sold under the name of Begaa never found it´s way into the official list of the NomCom, very probably as some new NWA . Something went badly wrong, as the main mass holders recently told me this was classified to be an LL3.2 (!) by a well-known scientist in Paris, but despite the fact that there is a big TKW and this meteorite seems to be widely distributed in collections (by virtue of it´s beauty with all those pristine chondrules alone, similar to e.g. Krymka), nobody seems to have really cared to make this available to the scientific field, which, of course, and for good reasons again, only accepts material that has been accepted by the NomCom. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NWA 801 is available as a CR2, and looks like a pretty and interesting meteorite - but unless I'm missing something, it still has not been officially recognized in a MetSoc Bulletin. I did find an official mention of it here: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2003/pdf/5238.pdf .but it's just that specimens were studied for a copper isotope examination, listed as part of the 66th Annual MetSoc meeting in 2003. The 801 number would suggest it goes back to 2001 or so, anyone know why it seems to have been passed over for official recognition/publication? Also wanting to know who classified it, and when, and where? Thanks - Gregory __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman Chair, Meteorite Nomenclature Committee (Meteoritical Society) US Geological Survey 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA Phone: (703) 648-6184 fax: (703) 648-6383 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] More data on NWA 998
Dear List members, It looks like there is yet another abstract written for NWA 998, this is turning out to be one fantastic stone. Here is the link for those who are interested: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/sixthmars2003/pdf/3163.pdf All the best, Adam Hupe __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] skyrox ban???
are we talking about posessing or pickin' 'em up?Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Elma Geometeorite ?
Hello List ,It looks like a Russian scientist has commented on the Elma event. Heclaims it is a Geometeorite.Here is the linkhttp://olkhov.narod.ru/gr1997.htm#20030715This scientist also commented on an investigation Haag and Strope wereinvolved in.Here is the linkhttp://olkhov.narod.ru/gr1997.htm#20010731I found these to be interesting.Best Regards to all , Steven Drummond TUC :-)
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Ball lightning? I've seen it before and it could possibly fool people into thinking it is a meteor. Now about making some type of fulgurite, I couldn't tell you. Just a thought. Dave Adam Hupe wrote: Hi Tom and List, The problem with this material is that it does not contain any metal. If it was in a reducing environment why isn't there any metal, even at microprobe levels? This almost certainly eliminates this material coming from an industrial process, at least none that I have ever heard of. If it came from a foundry why wasn't the sand melted in the center. The sand is also trapped in sealed vesicles, that look almost like chondrules, like a condensation product, which is extremely odd. It was extremely difficult to make thin-sections of this stuff because of the friability of the material trapped inside. Will update as we get more results, Adam - Original Message - From: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteor central [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hello All, This Elma stuff sounds like a metal casting bi-product from a foundry. Is there a foundry in our around Elma? Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: mafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteor central [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and smoldering pieces of basaltic glass with sand inside, sounds like some atmospheric event - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hi Mike, Mike and List, The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It could prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. The jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was created. The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has been reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass shell. The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what ever created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was quenched very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might have been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is looking more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we are keeping an open mind regarding this material. All the best, Adam and Greg Hupe - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a meteorite was recovered there. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Everyone- Is this all said and done with or is the jury still out with any maybe's? Thanks, Mike __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] FW: The Vitim event and more
Robert and others, Serg from the Comet Meteorite Shop told me the same thing about Vitim at the Springfield show. He said that travel to the area was long and difficult...and that more money would be needed to do a serious investigation of the site. He did say they had soil to evaluate, and that the impact/explosion(?) damage to the area was significant. This might have been a smaller scale Tunguska-like event? Much more work on the site it is needed for sure. John Forward Message -- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:25:57 +0400 From: Andrei Ol'khovatov Subject: (meteorobs) The Vitim event and more Dear All, Expeditions have returned from the Vitim bolide epicenter. No fragments were discovered. Some samples of soil etc. were taken to analyse in labs. Along the trajectory numerous small and fierce forest-falls were discovered with unknown origin. In my opinion, it is not clear whether they exist just in there (and absent in other areas), as the expeditions (as I understand from brief reports) were just along the trajectory. Hoping that more detailed info will appear soon. Here is a fresh meteorite impact article on something another: http://www.detnews.com/2003/metro/0308/12/c01-242704.htm Despite that it is not clear what it was, it sounds interesting to investigate. Best wishes, Andrei Ol'khovatov Russia, Moscow From the archive and Web site for the Meteorobs list: http://www.meteorobs.org -- __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hello All, How about a glass manufacturing bi-product? Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hi Tom and List, The problem with this material is that it does not contain any metal. If it was in a reducing environment why isn't there any metal, even at microprobe levels? This almost certainly eliminates this material coming from an industrial process, at least none that I have ever heard of. If it came from a foundry why wasn't the sand melted in the center. The sand is also trapped in sealed vesicles, that look almost like chondrules, like a condensation product, which is extremely odd. It was extremely difficult to make thin-sections of this stuff because of the friability of the material trapped inside. Will update as we get more results, Adam - Original Message - From: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteor central [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hello All, This Elma stuff sounds like a metal casting bi-product from a foundry. Is there a foundry in our around Elma? Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: mafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteor central [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? fulguritic? given a sighting of a smoking trail and smoldering pieces of basaltic glass with sand inside, sounds like some atmospheric event - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hi Mike, Mike and List, The Elma material is definitely not a meteorite, so to speak. It could prove to be just as or more interesting to the scientific community. The jury is still out on exactly what this material is or how it was created. The initial lab results created more questions than answers. As has been reported this material consist of sand incased in a basaltic glass shell. The materials in the glass are not separated into swirls so what ever created these objects had a huge amount of energy and the glass was quenched very rapidly. Experiments are being conducted to see how these might have been created. We should have more answers by next week. This is looking more like an X-files episode than a meteor sighting. For now, we are keeping an open mind regarding this material. All the best, Adam and Greg Hupe - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a meteorite was recovered there. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Everyone- Is this all said and done with or is the jury still out with any maybe's? Thanks, Mike __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 801
Just curious: Is it the classifying institute´s responsibility to submit a completed classification to the NomCom in time to get ready for future work, or is it the responsibility of the dealer/finder/supplier to do so, when he knows of any results from the analysing institute? Or is this a sort of a nonsense question, from the viewpoint of the NomCom... :-) Btw: this is, what I was thinking of when I made that P.S. remark about that Begaa stone with my last post. Alex Berlin, Germany Jeff Grossman wrote: This meteorite is listed in the Provisional Names page: http://meteoriticalsociety.org/bulletin/prov-names.html It appears to be a Farmer meteorite with type specimen at UCLA. As of last spring, nobody had submitted a classification to the NomCom. Perhaps is has come in since, but no vote has occurred. Despite the official reference, the meteorite name remains unofficial. A few abstracts in this conference reference unapproved meteorites. Next year, firm guidelines will be in place that we hope will prevent this from happening any more. jeff At 08:18 PM 8/10/2003 +0200, Alexander Seidel wrote: This meteorite is also missing in the very latest update of MetBase, version 6.0, just a few days ago released by it´s author Joern Koblitz, who is one of the members of the NomCom of the Meteoritical Society. In fact, there is a gap in the NWA datasets counting from NWA 780 to NWA 816, and there are probably other gaps, too, in all the numbers known so far. This surely is for good reason and perhaps Jeff Grossman may comment on this, if he likes to do so. Alex Berlin, Germany P.S., on a side note: I wonder why that meteorite once inofficially sold under the name of Begaa never found it´s way into the official list of the NomCom, very probably as some new NWA . Something went badly wrong, as the main mass holders recently told me this was classified to be an LL3.2 (!) by a well-known scientist in Paris, but despite the fact that there is a big TKW and this meteorite seems to be widely distributed in collections (by virtue of it´s beauty with all those pristine chondrules alone, similar to e.g. Krymka), nobody seems to have really cared to make this available to the scientific field, which, of course, and for good reasons again, only accepts material that has been accepted by the NomCom. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NWA 801 is available as a CR2, and looks like a pretty and interesting meteorite - but unless I'm missing something, it still has not been officially recognized in a MetSoc Bulletin. I did find an official mention of it here: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2003/pdf/5238.pdf .but it's just that specimens were studied for a copper isotope examination, listed as part of the 66th Annual MetSoc meeting in 2003. The 801 number would suggest it goes back to 2001 or so, anyone know why it seems to have been passed over for official recognition/publication? Also wanting to know who classified it, and when, and where? Thanks - Gregory __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman Chair, Meteorite Nomenclature Committee (Meteoritical Society) US Geological Survey 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA Phone: (703) 648-6184 fax: (703) 648-6383 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] FW: The Vitim event and more
Serg from the Comet Meteorite Shop told me the same thing about Vitim at the Springfield show. He said that travel to the area was long and difficult...and that more money would be needed to do a serious investigation of the site. He did say they had soil to evaluate, and that the impact/explosion(?) damage to the area was significant. So, the initial reports of finding meteorite fragments at the site were totally off the mark? It seems to me people had unreasonable high expectations. The 'damage' to the area is sounding more and more like a normal forest fire than an impact site. That's not to say meteorites didn't fall, but that this is not looking like another Tunguska event. This might have been a smaller scale Tunguska-like event? Much more work on the site it is needed for sure. The main evidence against it being a Tunguska-like event is the DOD satellite measurements. They indicate that this was more on a scale of a Tagish Lake event, which incidently did not knock down any trees. They should be looking for meteorites, and not be led off course by burnt trees. Ron Baalke __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Did meteorite slam Oakland? Field Report
Hi Larry and List, Big thanks to you all for the support! Maria Original Message Follows From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Did meteorite slam Oakland? Field Report Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:26:29 EDT Hello Maria and List, I'm glad to see that one of our Michigan Rep's was on the scene. You beat me to it! Unfortunately I was working and didn't even hear about it until after you had been there and gone. Too bad it wasn't a meteorite though, maybe next time it will be authentic. I did see you on the news, wonderful! Good job Maria! Regards, Larry _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Park Forest Oriented Nosecone on auction
Dear List, I just put one of my finest Park forest Specimens up for auction on ebay. It is an oriented individual nosecone shaped , 95% thick crust and lipping , very fresh. I tried my best to take good enough pictures to show the quality . but as we all know it always looks better in person. Ive seen plenty of PF specimens , none come close to this shape. The ebay item # is 2187316717 If anyone has any questions about this piece please feel free to contact me. If anyone is interested in this piece , I am interested in complete stony individuals for a possible trade ( No NWA ) . so if your tired of any larger individuals in your collection, maybe this is the opportunity for you. I m pretty sure that any oriented Park Forests ,large or small will be very difficult if not impossible to acquire. I will only be willing to do a trade as long as the reserve isnt met. Thanks Bob Evans __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban
Jeff, Thanks for clearing up the exact numbers! I never realized so many where found in the Antarctic. .. it makes me even more sure that, since the Antarctic meteorites are already 'protected from private sale', banning collecting would not increase the number available to science, probably the reverse in fact. Unless we suddenly recruited thousands of scientists to scour the deserts and plains for rusty OC's I doubt whether science would find more than the dealers they simply wouldn't have the resources to search the world. I also think that there is little further scientific value to be gained once a fall has been classified, studied and samples put into scientific collections, what would we do you do with the rest of the surplus rock, lock it away so no one else can learn about them? The bottom line is we need the scientists and they need us! Its just a case of finding a happy medium. Legislation not needed. Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hello all I waited with anxiety the result of the fake Elma meteorite, alone to see the face of who sold this material on ebay teasing the people and now know that does not exist any Elma meteorite. Regards Matteo --- Charles R. Viau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If this is what the List members want. I will simply will not post future results obtained in the lab regarding this material, pretty simple, no need for you and Mike to get nasty This is NOT what this list member wants. This is supposed to be a free-format forum where people who share the same passion get to share their experiences with peers. I have a major objection to being denied information that I am interested in, just because some people feel it is ok to show such disrespect to someone just because the subject does not gel with their personal view of what is important. Think about that - They only future information you will get is exactly what you want to hear. Isn't that F($%!$ scientific! Charlyv -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:19 PM To: Tom aka James Knudson Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hi Tom and List members, I am only responding because a problem seems to be developing here. Mike Farmer claims scientists are wasting their time on this material and that this is a waste of bandwidth on the List. The scientists are the ones who dispatched us to bring this material to them. The University of Washington is studying this material own their own and we are simply assisting by bringing material in. If you look at the archives I did not initiate this Elma status chain, I simply responded to a question. You propagated this long string by asking several questions which were posted to the list. Since they were posted to the List I responded publicly. If this means I am wasting bandwidth you are just as guilty by posting questions to the list. If this is what the List members want. I will simply will not post future results obtained in the lab regarding this material, pretty simple, no need for you and Mike to get nasty. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hello List, Mike wrote; , I am simply offended by people wasting scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to get a simple classification. I have to agree with mike here. Adam and Greg said this was not a meteorite in the beginning, and I think they would know! But, I for one, have been chastised big time for posting OT things to the list. There was not a fall in Elma and the things the people from Elma are claiming to meteorites are not meteorites and in my opinion have no place on the list. I am interested in the end result, but until then, I think we should save Art some bandwidth on this subject. Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Ok Adam, tell us all, where did you get your science degree? Oh I forgot, you have none, so please stop playing scientist. I don't have a closed mind, I am simply offended by people wasting scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to get a simple classification. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hey Mike and Dear List, Ex and current NASA scientist know the difference between tar and glass. Maybe you should have an open mind because you would be blown away by the lab results if you truly understood mineralogy. This is definitely not tar, only somebody with a closed mind and no understanding of chemistry would make such a statement, go back to school. Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles R. Viau [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Well, It CANNOT be a tekite, tektites are made by large impacts melting the impacted rock. these were found in a telephone pole! My god, every telephone pole I have ever seen is covered in tar or whatever weird
[meteorite-list] Did meteorite slam Oakland?
URL: http://www.detnews.com/2003/metro/0308/12/c01-242704.htm Did meteorite slam Oakland? By Tom Greenwood / The Detroit News DAVISBURG -- Live long and prosper -- and duck! The Road Commission for Oakland County may have had a close encounter of the shooting-star kind when what appears to be a meteorite hit one of its maintenance facilities over the weekend. It happened sometime on Sunday when the yard was locked up and no one was working, road commission spokesman Craig Bryson said. Two workers came in Monday morning and found an impact crater outside the main garage near the employee parking lot. When they told me about it, I thought they were kidding. What's next? We've hired Bigfoot as a snowplow driver? Bryson said the object left a 12-inch-by-18-inch-by-3-inch crater in the lot, which may not seem impressive until one learns that the crater is in 6 inches of asphalt. The edges of the crater are seared black, and there's a fan-shaped debris field spread out all around the site, Bryson said. One of our employees is an amateur astronomer, and he said it looks like every impact crater he's ever seen. There is a good chance it was a meteorite, said David Batch, director of the Abrams Planetarium at Michigan State University. It's possible, although the description of the crater having charred edges bothers me a bit, Batch said. It could have been debris falling from a plane, although there's been no reports of anything like that. Fireworks are a possibility, but it would have to be a very strong explosion to have made that big a hole in asphalt. The best thing to do is to have the site examined and have the debris analyzed. Meteorites usually fall into one of three compositional categories: nickel/iron, stone and stone mixed with iron, Batch said. They enter the upper atmosphere at 40 miles per second but are greatly slowed by friction. If this was a meteorite, it was probably about the size of a fist or larger, Batch said. Workers have marked off the crater with orange cones. We're going to have our amateur astronomer contact some scientists and have them take a look, Bryson said. But what the heck? What else could it be? You can reach Tom Greenwood at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or (313) 222-2023. _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] unclassified NWA, any idea's ?
*** my original doesn't appear to have hit the list so if this duplicates apologies *** Hi List, I recently acquired some unclassified NWA's and on examining a small stone noticed a tiny cavity with a pinkish coloured sphere embedded. I took a look under my digital microscope and saw what appears to be a chondrule held in a large cavity by crystals. I'm definitely no expert so would welcome anyone out there willing to give me a second opinion, or indeed any feedback. The images are at http://members.lycos.co.uk/meteoriteireland/nwauncl.htm Please let me know if you have problems accessing the images. Thanks in advance to anyone wishing to comment. Ken O'Neill IMCA #9465 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] List arguments
--- Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I sure am glad that I am leaving for California to hike the John Muir this coming Friday...No Phones, No email and best of all...NO LIST ARGUMENTS!!! I will be back on September 15th. Best wishes to all of you for as peaceful coming month as I am going to have. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 Catch a Falling Star Meteorites http://www.catchafallingstar.com And these stupid arguments always seem to be over Ebay. The numerous adds and boasting over how well or bad some dealer is doing in their Ebay quests. Why not just take it somewhere else? A complete list for Ebay adds, arguments, and just a great place for dealer bickering. This list should be for meteorites, not an Ebay grandstand. Steve Schoner/ams P.S. Just one more reason for me to hate Ebay. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Did meteorite slam Oakland? Field Report
Maria, Thanks so much for the follow-up. The Press is quick to publish anyone's 'meteorite' story, but rarely follows up when it is often discovered to be a wrong. (No reflection on Ron Baalke, who does an excellent job on keeping us informed) I hope the trip wasn't too exhausting :) Best, ken newton maria nelson wrote: Hi All, Armed with my digital camera, four of my five meteorites, and chips of a rare-earth magnet, I went out to Davisburg today to scope out the impact crater. While I wasn't quite sure what I'd do when I got there (I'm really new at this), it became instantly clear when I approached the TV news van parked in the lot. During the interview (on camera) I was informed that the crater was created by the exhaust pipe of a fire truck. It was pretty comical but the reporter did let me show all of the meteorites I brought (some had Mike Farmer's card still in the bag). Even though they didn't air that part, they did air a cool part of the interview. I was asked if the lengthy drive was worth it and I responded: Yes, it was worth it. If this had been a meteorite we'd be holding space rocks right now! Anyway, my first field expedition and report is now complete and I used up about 15 seconds of my remaining 8 minutes of fame on a very worthy cause. Space Rocks Rule, Maria ;) - Original Message - From: Maria Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:19 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Did meteorite slam Oakland? URL: http://www.detnews.com/2003/metro/0308/12/c01-242704.htm Did meteorite slam Oakland? By Tom Greenwood / The Detroit News DAVISBURG -- Live long and prosper -- and duck! The Road Commission for Oakland County may have had a close encounter of the shooting-star kind when what appears to be a meteorite hit one of its maintenance facilities over the weekend. It happened sometime on Sunday when the yard was locked up and no one was working, road commission spokesman Craig Bryson said. Two workers came in Monday morning and found an impact crater outside the main garage near the employee parking lot. When they told me about it, I thought they were kidding. What's next? We've hired Bigfoot as a snowplow driver? Bryson said the object left a 12-inch-by-18-inch-by-3-inch crater in the lot, which may not seem impressive until one learns that the crater is in 6 inches of asphalt. The edges of the crater are seared black, and there's a fan-shaped debris field spread out all around the site, Bryson said. One of our employees is an amateur astronomer, and he said it looks like every impact crater he's ever seen. There is a good chance it was a meteorite, said David Batch, director of the Abrams Planetarium at Michigan State University. It's possible, although the description of the crater having charred edges bothers me a bit, Batch said. It could have been debris falling from a plane, although there's been no reports of anything like that. Fireworks are a possibility, but it would have to be a very strong explosion to have made that big a hole in asphalt. The best thing to do is to have the site examined and have the debris analyzed. Meteorites usually fall into one of three compositional categories: nickel/iron, stone and stone mixed with iron, Batch said. They enter the upper atmosphere at 40 miles per second but are greatly slowed by friction. If this was a meteorite, it was probably about the size of a fist or larger, Batch said. Workers have marked off the crater with orange cones. We're going to have our amateur astronomer contact some scientists and have them take a look, Bryson said. But what the heck? What else could it be? You can reach Tom Greenwood at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or (313) 222-2023. _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Mike, forget about this one, there is not a chance in hell that a meteorite was recovered there. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Everyone- Is this all said and done with or is the jury still out with any maybe's? Thanks, Mike __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: The Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay (Zagami Mars Meteorite)
Hi Ron and List, The largest known specimen in circulation (188 grams) of the famous Mars rock Zagami, is owned by a private individual ... Wrong. Bob Haag owns a 2.35-kilo endcut (see Bob's 2003 Collection Catalogue, p. 49). ... your chance to own a rare 1.3 Billion year old piece of the Red Planet! Ron responded: Zagami is a shergottite, which is 180 million years old. Nakhilites, another type of Mars meteorite, are 1.3 billion years old. Their reference was obviously: McSWEEN H.Y., Jr. (1994) What we have learned about Mars from SNC meteorites (Inv.Rev. in Meteoritics 29-6, 1994 November, pp. 757-779). On p. 762, the author wrote: The timing of crystallization of the basaltic and lherzolitic shergottites has been a very controversial subject. The Sm-Nd whole-rock data fall along an isotopic array ... of about 1.3 Ga. The Rb-Sr data for mineral separates from the basalts form an isochron of 180 ± 20 Ma. .. Shih et al.(1982) and Wooden et al. (1982) interpreted the 1.3-Ga age as the time of crystallization and assumed that the 180-Ma age represents the time of shock metamorphism that affected all shergottites. BUT on page 9 of: McSWEEN H.Y. Jr. (2002) The Leonard Medal Address: The rocks of Mars, from far and near (MAPS 37-1, 2002, pp. 007-025) where the author states: The nakhlites and Chassigny crystallized about 1.3 Ga ago, and the shergottites span an interval from 165 to 875 Ma with most samples clustering near the recent end of this range. Yet, the author again cautions in his following statement: The young ages of shergottites remain controversial. Best regards, Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED](MeteoriteMailingList) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Space Jewel Hunter (Collecting Meteorites In Antarctica)
http://www.newscientist.com/opinion/opinterview.jsp;jsessionid=KMCLPIINMPBG?id=ns24071 Space Jewel Hunter New Scientist Interview August 7, 2003 It can plunge to -45 °C. The wind chills you to the marrow. Take your gloves off for more than 10 minutes and you'll probably lose your fingers. That's the death-or-glory stuff of Antarctic legend. But for Bill Cassidy, the continent offers a very different allure. It's studded with meteorites, which means he'd go back tomorrow. And that's at the age of 75, after a total of 15 gruelling years leading meteorite-hunting expeditions. So what makes these black jewels so irresistible? Why are they there? And what is Nomad? Alison George dragged Cassidy away from his other passion, the adventures of Harry Potter, long enough to ask him What kept you going in such an inhospitable environment? When every meteorite that you look at has never been seen by anybody else, and every one you pick up has the potential to have secrets locked away that have never been seen in any other rock, you always have the feeling that it might be the most interesting specimen that has ever been found. But it's just amazing being in a place where you can pick up a hundred lifetimes' worth of meteorites in a few days. I am still kind of incredulous. What can these Antarctic meteorite collections tell us about other planets? It is certainly much cheaper to go to Antarctica than to go out into space. While most of the meteorites we find are well-understood stony meteorites called ordinary chondrites, we do find some extremely rare meteorites too. The ANSMET programme found one of the first lunar meteorites as well as the samples which proved that a certain class of rare meteorite was in fact from Mars. And in 1984, we discovered the Martian meteorite that some people believe shows evidence of fossilised bacteria. In the hunt for evidence of life on other planets, are Antarctic meteorites prized because of where they landed? Originally we thought: Oh boy, this is pristine, there is absolutely no source of contamination at all, but we found out that actually it is not perfectly pristine. It's a lot better than if a meteorite lands in a cowpat, say. But there's also atmospheric contamination: for instance, a Swiss geochemist has found bromine on the surface of meteorites, and this apparently comes from the ocean. Antarctica is surrounded by the ocean and some of these chemicals get into the air and circulate over the continent. But relatively speaking, Antarctic meteorites would be better for searching for traces of life. Do you think there is life on other planets? I try to keep an open mind. Amino acids have been identified in many meteorites. This does suggest the potential for life elsewhere in space. Is there life on Mars? I don't think the evidence that has been suggested so far is completely convincing. Of course, this is part of a larger question: is there life elsewhere in the universe? We know that life exists in our solar system, so which would be more probable: that this is the only dust grain in the universe that has life on it, or are there other dust grains that also have life on them? My hope is that there is other life and eventually we might find it. Meanwhile, the Antarctic is a very good place to start. So why do meteorites end up concentrated on the Antarctic ice? Surely falls are as rare there as anywhere else? Two reasons. Water is the main cause of weathering of rocks, and in general, meteorites weather very fast because they contain iron, which rusts. So a meteorite that falls outside of London, say, can turn into part of the soil in just a hundred years. In Antarctica, meteorites see a lot of water but it's all frozen, so they can last up to two million years. The second reason is that any meteorites landing in Antarctica get embedded in the ice. Most are carried out to sea because that is the fate of the ice sheet, but in certain places the ice gets jammed up behind a mountain range. If these spots are windy, the wind wears the ice away, and new ice moves in. Over a great length of time any meteorite in the ice gets stranded on the surface. Then it sits there and doesn't weather away. What was the eureka moment that made you think Antarctica was a deep-freeze store for meteorites? In 1973 I went to a talk about meteorites from Antarctica given by a Japanese chemist called Makoto Shima. I assumed that he was talking about a meteorite shower, fragments of the same body that broke up and scattered around. When you find meteorites close together anywhere else on Earth, they are all from the same source. Suddenly I realised that he was describing four or five different types of meteorite among nine that had been found within a small area. The only thing I could think of was: How did all these meteorites get concentrated in a small area? There must be something in Antarctica that concentrates meteorites, but at the time I couldn't imagine what it was. Didn't
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Dear List, I personally witnessed ball lightning in the AZ desert only 6 months ago and it wasprobably the most intense and dramatic event I've ever witnessed.Ball lightningdoes exist and itcan last for several minutes; the one I saw lasted over two full minutes. As a matter of fact, the one I witnessed actually buried itself in the earth so it could not be seen directly but only by the reflections of colored light from the clouds above it. Really REALLY weird stuff whatever it is. Kindest Regards, Mark Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
Re: [meteorite-list] $6000 in meteorites up for grabs right now!
Hello again Mike and List, You do not know anything about our expeditions because we have learned to keep our mouth shut about promising leads after you took the Thuathe data from our Tucson room and ran with it, get your own leads. The reason we took over the expeditions in Morocco is because when we invested in you the good find topoor find ratio was getting worse and worse. Do not forget who plowed huge amounts of capitol into your expeditions while we were busy running a multi-million dollar organization. Mike, you need to be careful about what you say and what you do. If you simply did not comment on everything we post in public then we would not have to respond in public. I do not want to escalate this any further because I have beendragged into your arguments too many times.If you have a problem, you need to respond off list and we will do the same. All theBest, Adam and Greg - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer To: Adam Hupe Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] $6000 in meteorites up for grabs right now! Oh yeah Adam, I am so worried about my ebay stats. I have been on ebay for 6 years, you have been for little over one year. Give me a break, aren't you tiring of your relentless and totally bogus self-promotion yet? Reading your Kenya article almost made me puke. I love the part about how the Dave contacted you about your long history of meteorite expeditions. Too bad that is bullshit. The first meteorite expedition you ever did was with Me, I took Greg to Morocco, hen then rushed right back over there to buy out from under me from the contacts I introduced him to. you have been to Africa one time Adam, so please, how do you go about promoting yourself as such a huge adventurer? I have had alot of emails and calls about this. Do you not think that you are overdoing the promotinga little? Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe To: Michael Farmer Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] $6000 in meteorites up for grabs right now! Hello Mike and List, Since you had to comment publicly, I will respond publicly. Your repeat customer status is 2.76:1 if you care, a very simple calculation. If you are in business this should be of major concern. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:19 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] $6000 in meteorites up for grabs right now! I have over 60 meteorites ending tonight myself. Over $6000 in meteorites, VERY LARGE and rare specimens, EVERY ONE started for one cent. Many are still there and they are ending in the next 4 hours! I am not sure where I stand as far as repeat customers, too busy traveling over the last 6 years to keep track of ebay stats. Talk about deals, if this isn't a good deal, I don't know what one is. See some examples here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2187279788category=3239rd=1 NWA 801, now @ $3 gram! CR2 One of the best oriented Sikhote-alin's I have seen, 111 grams, at $80! Less than I paid for it! Good lord http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2187283726category=3239rd=1 333 gram Zag individual @ $.50 cents a gram! WOW http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2187282962category=3239rd=1 160 gram complete Tenham individual, This meteorite FELL in 1879! $1 gram! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2187285461category=3239rd=1 And here is a super nice oriented stone, like a nosecone, covered in flow lines, less than $1 gram! JZ http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2187289995category=3239rd=1 And the creme de la creme, a 2 plus KILO slice of TATA iron, LESS THAN 40 CENTS a gram right now! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2187291817category=3239rd=1 thanks Mike Farmer http://www.meteoritehunter.com
[meteorite-list] Federal Court Sets Value Of Stolen Moon Rocks At $5 Million
http://www.floridatoday.com/topstories/080603moonrocks.htm Federal court sets value of stolen moon rocks at $5 million Valuation part of sentencing in Orlando theft trial Kelly Young Florida Today August 6, 2003 ORLANDO, Fla. - A federal court this morning set the value of moon rocks heisted from the Johnson Space Center at more than $5 million based upon what it cost the United States to go get them rather than what they might sell for on the open market. In what some collectors have said is the first official government valuation of the rocks that American astronauts brought back from the moon on the Apollo expeditions, prosecutors and defense attorneys agreed to value moon rocks and Martian meteorites stolen from JSC at between $2.5 million and $7 million. The valuation was part of the sentencing of two NASA interns, Tiffany Fowler and Shae Sauer, in U.S. District Court in Orlando earlier today. The two, who were found guilty of collaborating with two others to pilfer the space rocks and other items from Johnson Space Center and sell them, were sentenced to three years probation. Each will serve the first 180 days of the sentence in home detention and will do 150 hours of community service. They also were ordered to pay $9,167 restitution to the space agency to cover the cost of other items and equipment that were either stolen or destroyed in the incident. Some of the defendants have said they took an entire safe full of meteorites, moon rocks and other scientific items from a lab at the NASA center in Houston. They were busted in an undercover FBI sting. The other two defendants are Thad Roberts and Gordon McWhorter. McWhorter was convicted in June. Roberts, who pleaded guilty in December along with Fowler and Sauer to conspiracy to commit theft and interstate transportation of stolen property, testified against McWhorter at the trial. For space enthusiasts, however, the more interesting element of the sentencing was the requirement to figure out the value of what many scientists and collectors deem priceless items. The co-conspirators apparently were trying to sell the rocks on the Internet for between $1,000 and $5,000 per gram. The government did that by using the cost of acquisition and market value. The moon rocks were valued based upon what it cost the U.S. government to go get them back in the 1960s and 1970s. The court determined that, in 1962-1973 dollars, it cost the government $50,800 per gram to collect the lunar samples. The interns took 101.5 grams from the Houston space facility. So the total value assigned to the stolen rocks was set at $5.1 million. It remained unclear what the value of the rocks would be today if sold on the open market, based on the system the government used to value them. Also because of the method used to set that value, it was unclear whether it would be valid to convert the decades-old price to present-day dollars. At first glance, compared to past experience, the value seemed low. By contrast, in 1993, the famed auction house Sotheby's sold some moon material brought back by the Soviets at a price equivalent to about $2.2 million per gram. Using that standard, the 101.5 grams stolen from JSC might be worth as much as $223 million though it's impossible to know what the true value would be since the merchandise in this case was stolen and might have had to be sold secretly - basically on the black market. The Martian meteorites, part of a larger collection that was the result of a massive find by scientists in Antarctica, were priced at $1.8 million based on their believed market value. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Did meteorite slam Oakland? Field Report
Hi All, Armed with my digital camera, four of my five meteorites, and chips of a rare-earth magnet, I went out to Davisburg today to scope out the impact crater. While I wasn't quite sure what I'd do when I got there (I'm really new at this), it became instantly clear when I approached the TV news van parked in the lot. During the interview (on camera) I was informed that the crater was created by the exhaust pipe of a fire truck. It was pretty comical but the reporter did let me show all of the meteorites I brought (some had Mike Farmer's card still in the bag). Even though they didn't air that part, they did air a cool part of the interview. I was asked if the lengthy drive was worth it and I responded: Yes, it was worth it. If this had been a meteorite we'd be holding space rocks right now! Anyway, my first field expedition and report is now complete and I used up about 15 seconds of my remaining 8 minutes of fame on a very worthy cause. Space Rocks Rule, Maria ;) - Original Message - From: Maria Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:19 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Did meteorite slam Oakland? URL: http://www.detnews.com/2003/metro/0308/12/c01-242704.htm Did meteorite slam Oakland? By Tom Greenwood / The Detroit News DAVISBURG -- Live long and prosper -- and duck! The Road Commission for Oakland County may have had a close encounter of the shooting-star kind when what appears to be a meteorite hit one of its maintenance facilities over the weekend. It happened sometime on Sunday when the yard was locked up and no one was working, road commission spokesman Craig Bryson said. Two workers came in Monday morning and found an impact crater outside the main garage near the employee parking lot. When they told me about it, I thought they were kidding. What's next? We've hired Bigfoot as a snowplow driver? Bryson said the object left a 12-inch-by-18-inch-by-3-inch crater in the lot, which may not seem impressive until one learns that the crater is in 6 inches of asphalt. The edges of the crater are seared black, and there's a fan-shaped debris field spread out all around the site, Bryson said. One of our employees is an amateur astronomer, and he said it looks like every impact crater he's ever seen. There is a good chance it was a meteorite, said David Batch, director of the Abrams Planetarium at Michigan State University. It's possible, although the description of the crater having charred edges bothers me a bit, Batch said. It could have been debris falling from a plane, although there's been no reports of anything like that. Fireworks are a possibility, but it would have to be a very strong explosion to have made that big a hole in asphalt. The best thing to do is to have the site examined and have the debris analyzed. Meteorites usually fall into one of three compositional categories: nickel/iron, stone and stone mixed with iron, Batch said. They enter the upper atmosphere at 40 miles per second but are greatly slowed by friction. If this was a meteorite, it was probably about the size of a fist or larger, Batch said. Workers have marked off the crater with orange cones. We're going to have our amateur astronomer contact some scientists and have them take a look, Bryson said. But what the heck? What else could it be? You can reach Tom Greenwood at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or (313) 222-2023. _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Updates Qs and As
Dear List Members, We are still receiving numerous emails regarding a few things we are working with. I will address this to the list in hopes of saving some time later. Here are some questions and answers: Q. What is the status of the Park Forest splash-forms? A. Inconclusive, the O-isotopes place this material with CI chondrites not the L5 range as would be expected if this was part of the Park Forest fall. We have no answer for this very strange result. Scientists refer to this material as Damn Crazy Glass so we will leave it at that. Q. What are the subclasses of the mesosiderites you are working with? A. Provisionally NWA 1878 is a 2B, provisionally NWA 1879 is a 2C and our unserialized mesosiderite has not received enough study to make a determination. Two separate laboratories are trying to sort this out. Q. Just how many Olivine Diogenites are there now and are you sure that your find, NWA 1459 is not paired with your new acquisition, NWA 1877? A. Fair question, there are only five, three of which are from Antartica. NWA 1459 and NWA 1877 have numerous differences which will be addressed in an abstract proving they are not paired. A definition is being written for this new main class which will differentiate between Olivine-bearing (10% olivine), Olivine-rich(10-20% olivine) and an Olivine Digenite (over 20% olivine). This data is provisional and is subject to change in the future. As it stands now, there only five Olivine Diogenites. Q. Where did our non-NWA lunar come from and why is it taking so long to get formal paperwork? A. The non-NWA lunar came from Egypt, a very thorough study is being performed in order to produce a major document, a Ph.D. paper. Do not worry, the specimens we provided have been double checked at the UofW and are definitely lunar. Q. Why are you guys so secretive about the material you are working on? A. We try not to be too secretive but want to respect works-in-progress by scientist who in some cases want to present an abstract for publication. It is hard not to jump the gun sometimes when dealing with classifications. We try to be 99% sure of what we are dealing with before offering to the public. If we are not 100% sure we will note this when referencing the material, most of the time using the word provisional. Q. What are you working on now that is special? A. We are working on a couple of hard to describe, one-of-a-kind meteorites with no way to fit into the current classification system as they have never been found before. One of these is so interesting that it was questioned if it was even a meteorite which has since been proven. We literally study hundreds of suspected meteorites a year in hopes of finding new interesting material and it seems to be working, at least for now. Thank you for your patience regarding this long post. It is our hope that it answers some frequently asked questions. If you ever have a question feel free to ask and we will do our best to answer. Wishing everybody the very best, Adam and Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection IMCA 2185 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Park Forest predicted strewnfield map
Hi Mark, Robert, Here are the details of my recent PF finds: Find #1 Coordinates 41.49398 N, -87.67649 W; July 30, 2003 Norwood Square Shopping Center, Park Forest IL, 60466 60 grams; 30% crust at best; deeply cracked; 1.25x1.25x1.5 Find #2 Coordinates 41.49632 N, -87.67601 W; July 30, 2003 South Street, Park Forest IL, 60466 75 grams; 90% crust; black soot on 40%; 2.5x1.25x1.5 Thanks for forwarding me your latest find coordinates! I was pleased to discover that they both fall right on my predicted impact line, though in a slightly heavier region of it (~500-gram). This minor discrepancy could easily be explained if your fragments broke off something heavier at relatively low altitude ( 20 km). I have given these to Atul as well for inclusion in his strewn field map. If Atul is the keeper of a "master map" with lots of find coordinates on it, then he would probably be interested in seeingone of my predicted maps to see how well it matches up (and to determine if there are promising areas on my plot thathave not been searched well). Ideally, my modeling input parameters (jet stream velocity direction, break-up altitude(s)) should be tweaked until the best possible fit is achieved to the known finds. Then it would be interesting to explore areas indicated by the resulting plot that haven't beensearched. --Rob
[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images - August 4-8, 2003
MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES August 4-8, 2003 o Knobby Terrain Down Under (Released 4 August 2003) http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20030804a.html o Wind-sculpted Rocks (Released 5 August 2003) http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20030805a.html o Dunes in a Crater Floor (Released 6 August 2003) http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20030806a.html o Craters and Grabens: Circles and Lines (Released 7 August 2003) http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20030807a.html o Outflow Channel (Released 8 August 2003) http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20030808a.html All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.la.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in collaboration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban
Hello List, What is so hard to understand about this? Let's not forget that the science of meteoritics is big business. Well, not big by Microsoft or American Airlines standards, but compared to collecting it sure is. I was given a number a couple years ago that $12,000,000 a year is given out in grant money to study meteorites. It is hard to put a handle on how many dollars of meteorites are sold in the collecting field to the END consumer. Let's not count the same $5 specimen over and over again as it gets sold and traded to dealer after dealer 6 times then to ebay a few times before getting to a collector as if it were $50 in sales. Researching meteorites pays a lot more each year than all the dealing or field hunting pays. The point is that if a Canadian Meteorite crosses the border and a researcher in the US gets it, the US institution that researcher works for gets the grant money and NOT the Canadian Institution (or researcher who gets the pay check from said institution). This of course goes for any other country that lets a meteorite get out. However, I have not heard too many complaints from the Libyan Meteoritical Society about them losing jobs because they can't get grant money from NASA, because a DaG SNC slipped across of their borders. Folks, it is always about the money. If an attorney is writing a paper on it, ask who is paying him to write the paper? Or ask who is he wanting to see his "advertisement" so someone might hire him in the future as "the foremost legal authority on anti-collecting?" Either way, it comes back to money. I mean come on, do we really believe that he is spending this time because he feels a moral obligation to devote his life to correcting this major injustice is our modern society? I think it is politically incorrect for a scientist to stand up and speak up for the collecting community, so it is hard to know how many support us, and how many really don't. But I have asked around, and I have yet to find one single researcher who bashes dealers and field collectors for "only being in meteorites for profit" who also endorses their paychecks each week and donates them back to the institution they work for. Is this the kettle calling the pot black or what? As far as I know, Art Elhmann at T.C.U. is the only scientist that has been actively contributing to the science who is working for free. I mean, he is getting a pension, but I don't think he makes anything extra for doing what he has done these last few years in helping our science. And even if he did make more money, that is OK, the point is that he is one scientist who supports us. Even Jeff Grossman, who most of us really appreciate what all he does for us, is hesitant to even take a side on this issue! Can we blame him? It seems most researchers might only be in meteorites for the money too. Could it be that they want as big of the $12,000,000 pie as they can get? If they can squeeze out some their competition, and get a monopoly on the money game of meteoritics, then maybe their jobs will be more secure? If only they could squeeze out the collectors and also squeeze out researchers in other countries, then they can keep more money for themselves. But if evil field collectors, smuggle their future pay raises out to researchers in other countries, then that is "bad for science." Don't get dragged off on the rabbit trail of "what is best for science." We all KNOW what is best for science. So do they. They are just hoping their legislators (fellow government employees) won't look deep enough to see the greed behind their requests and add the bill to some Farm Subsidy Bill on page 634. And if their fellow government employees DO see through their requests, maybe a "wink and a nod" will get it passed anyway, especially if the attorney representing the researchers was fraternity bother, in the same law school, as the legislator pushing the Farm Subsidy Bill. Maybe the researchers will agree to help the same legislator in his reelection campaign so he can keep his job security as well. I would have to say that there are some researchers who do care about the science, and odds are pretty good that they are the ones who support the commercial side of the field as well. But unless there is a way to poll the researchers, or if they would want to go on public record (but it might cost some of them their jobs if they buck the trend) we will never know. Just remember the saying "follar the dollar" and things become quite clear. Steve Arnold
[meteorite-list] New email fro Michael Farmer
Hi everyone, I have finally got Digital Cable internet today, so please change my email in your address books to the following email. I will phase out the farmerm email in a month or so. NEW EMAIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thansk Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Finding things OTHER than meteorites...
When hunting a Lucern Dry Lake I found a high school wring and looked up the owner from the manufacturer, year and school. He was TOTALLY stoked to get it back. A local at Correo with whom I was hunting found a perfectly preserved cat scull. I also found a live rattle snake there another time and gave it to him. Best wishes, Michael on 8/11/03 4:44 PM, Charles R. Viau at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Once, out off RT66 in Arizona, I found a pile of male and female clothes, an empty bottle of Jack Daniels, and a Doors CD. Each pile of clothes was missing one sock, so the owners should be easy to identify... =CharlyV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Freeman Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 6:23 PM To: meteorite-list Subject: [meteorite-list] Finding things OTHER than meteorites... Dear List; This weekend I found a .40 scale radio controlled airplane crashed in the desert. With in 24 hours I had found the former owner and returned the wreckage. No survivors were located in the wreckage. Paul Harris was interested in seeing just what other odd stuff we have found while hunting meteorites. Anyone interested in a reply, please reply to me, and send a photo to me (in a smaller size kb jpeg file) and let's see what we get... This might be interesting. I would expect the boys from Holbrook a couple years back to come up with the Vaca Murta photo. Best, Dave Freeman __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list SUPPORT OUR TROUPS: http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html -- Facts are stupid things. Ronald Reagan -- Worth Seeing: - Earth at night from satellite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm - Earth - variety of choices: http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html -- Panoramic view of Meteor Crater: http://www.virtualguidebooks.com/Arizona/GrandCanyonRoute66/MeteorCrater/Met eorCraterRimL.html -- Cool Calendar Clock: http://www.yugop.com/ver3/stuff/03/fla.html -- Michael Blood Meteorites Didgeridoos for sale at: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Stupid argument tha tis going nowhere
Hello Yet Again Mike and List, Please forgive me for being suckered into yet another childish argument with Mike. Mike you do not know how many times I have been to Africa because we have learned to be quite about such things. Perhaps you would like to hear about our Egyptian expedition, want some pictures? How about Algeria? Me and your partner were invited to go there with a diplomatic blessing, perhaps we will go. Mike, it sounds to me as if you are jealous of the Kenya expedition. I would have gone in a second if my mother had been in better health. As it turned out, luckily I didn't! I will tell you what. Do not worry about us and we certainly will not worry about you. We are doing just fine not worrying about you. All the best, Adam and Greg __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Fw: [meteorite-list] METEORITE Aug 2003-9-3
Hi Bernd List, Since I don't have my copy of Meteorite, I can't enjoy this special treat yet. I was able to read some of the Kenya article thanks to Gary Swanson who brought his copy to the show this weekend. I met some first class people there, all of whom I had either read posts from or simply heard about. I was fortunate to meet a great group of people. Today I went up to the show again with my kids to let them enjoy these many wonders of nature first hand - they were definitely enriched. (Unfortunately Denver and Tucson are too far to travel). I want to note that the article did not mention my last name for privacy sake. Greg was not able to reach me and he felt better to be safe than sorry. That's understandable, I just don't want anybody thinking it was rude on his part for it not being printed. We all had a great experience, however difficult it was, and continue our friendships. Anyway, I hope to get a copy soon and enjoy it all. Dave Marsocci - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 5:24 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] METEORITE Aug 2003-9-3 What a special issue !!! There's Greg's report on their Kenya adventure sadly overshadowed by Greg's and Adam's mother passing away while Greg was out there. There's a photo showing Greg, Allan Lang, and a certain Dave who is no less a person than our list member Dave Marsocci. There's an interesting article by Paul Sipiera on the Fall of the Park Forest meteorite (including some critical grains of salt). There's Geoff Notkin's u n m i s t a k a b l e signature in his and John Sinclair's article on PF: In the Forest of the Night - a must-read! There's a cascade-like kaleidoscope of colors in O.R. Norton's and Tom Toffoli's centerpiece: barred chondrules galore ! .. and, and, and, ... so many more things you shouldn't miss out on! Good night, it's late and hot here, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] *AD* Lang's Meteorites - Catalog Update
Dear Meteorite List Members, Over the past couple of weeks we have carried out a major update to the R.A. Langheinrich Meteorites online catalog. We have added many exciting new specimens including the following: - Barrata, L4 from Australia - Coolidge, C3.8 - Juvinas specimens with incredible rich fusion crust - Kapoeta howardite - Nakhla - Nuevo Mercurio fusion-crusted individuals and fragments - Diamond lap slices of NWA 978 (H3.8, rumurutite) - NWA 1227, slices and part slices with diamond lap finish of this nice LL3 - NWA 1648, part slices of the very fresh LL5 - Odessa irons from an old collection with desert patina and good character (one with museum number) - Thuathe, excellent fusion-crusted individuals In addition, our online catalog features over a hundred different recognized meteorites including historic witnessed falls, Lunar and Martian material, old collection Canyon Diablo irons with desert patina, and much more! See it all here: http://www.nyrockman.com/catalog.htm We appreciate the Meteorite List members' continued interest and support. Thank you, Iris Lang www.nyrockman.com www.langsfossils.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fw: THIN SECTION COLLECTION AND MICROSCOPE FOR SALE
- Original Message - From: Michael Cottingham To: Michael Cottingham Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:22 AM Subject: THIN SECTION COLLECTION AND MICROSCOPE FOR SALE Hello, I have this offer to make to the list. I am looking to sell my entire thin-section collection and the most awesome polarizing microscope around. Best offer over $5000.00. Please contact me off of the list. RESEARCH GRADE POLARIZING MICROSCOPE: NIKON OPTIPHOT-POL ( Polarizing Microscope) Mechanical Stage, Many Objectives, Trinocular, Many, Many extras. Replacement Value Today is high. This is one of the finest Polarizing scopes ever made and when purchased 10 years ago it cost over$10,000.00 just for the core body alone!!! Many extras have been added bringing the true cost of this scope to nearly $15,000.00. As New condition. THIN SECTION COLLECTION as of 8/3/2003 *ALLENDE, CV3,..Chihuahua, Mexico *BILANGA, Diog,..Burkina Faso, Africa *BONDOC, Mesosiderites.Philippines. *CLOVIS #1, H3,..Curry County, New Mexico *COLONY, CO3,..Oklahoma *DAG 256, LL5-6,...Libya *DAG 734, EL4Libya *DHOFAR 295, Ureilite...Oman *EAGLE, EL6,..Cass County, Nebraska.. *EL GOURAMEM, Ureilite.Africa *GAO-GUENIE, H4,Burkino Faso, Africa... *GHUBARA, L5,...Oman *HAMLET, LL4,... Indiana *HAPPY CANYON, E6-7,...Armstrong County, Texas *HAXTUN, H/L4,.Phillips County, Colorado *HOLBROOK, L6Navajo County, Arizona... *HOMESTEAD, L5,.Iowa County, Iowa *HUCKITTA, Pallasite,Australia *HUNTER, LL5, .Oklahoma *HVITTIS, EL6,...Finland *JILIN, H5,China *JUANCHENG, H5.Shandong Province, China *KAPOETA, Howardite,Sudan *KENDLETON, L4,.Fort Bend County, Texas, USA *KORRA KORRABES, H3...Namibia *MANGWENDI, LL6,.Mashonoland, Zimbabwe *MILLBILLILLIE, Eucrite,Australia *MONUMENT DRAW, Acapulcoite,. Texas *MOUNT TAZERZAIT, L5,Niger *MURCHISON, CM2.Victoria, Australia *NWA 001, L6Morocco *NWA 060, CK5,...Morocco *NWA 061, LL4,Morocco *NWA 062, C03.3.Morocco *NWA 065, H5..Morocco *NWA 094, LL3.6,...Morocco *NWA 096, H3.8,Morocco *NWA 300, Unclassified..Morocco *NWA 305, E3...Morocco *NWA 328, Unclassified.Morocco *NWA 482, LUNAR,Morocco *NWA 533, LL 3.4...Morocco *NWA 595, BrachiniteMorocco *NWA 753, R3.Morocco *NWA 765, CK 4/5..Morocco *NWA 766, Urelite..Morocco *NWA 780, LL6...Morocco *NWA 782, R4...Morocco *NWA 869, L4 or L5Morocco *NWA 1083, CR2...Morocco *OURIQUE, H4,...Beja District, Portugal *PAMPA B,Chile *PAMPA-C, L4...Chile *PAMPA-D, L5...Chile *SAHARA 97037, LL7,..Sahara Desert, Africa *SAHARA 97137, L/LL4,...Sahara Desert, Africa *SAHARA 97162, EH3..Sahara Desert Africa *SAHARA 98088, Mesosiderite,Sahara Desert, Africa *SAHARA 98175, LL3.5...Sahara Desert, Africa *SAHARA 99555, Angrite,Sahara Desert, Africa *SAHARA 99544, CO3.SDA. *SAINT-SEVERIN, LL6,.Charente, France *SARATOV, L4, .Donguz, Pensa, Russia *SAU 001, L4/5.Oman *SELMA, H4...Alabama *SMARA,Eucrite..Morocco *SOKO-BANJA, LL4 brecciatedSerbia/Yugoslavia *TAGOUNITE 019, LL3.7Morocco *TATAHOUINE, Diogenite...Tunisia *TJEREBON, L5,...Java, Indonesia *UDEI
[meteorite-list] going to revisit the the pf strewnfield
Good morning list.If anyone around the chicago, wisconsin,or indiana area would like to come down to the park forest area to look for more pf specimens, I'll be going down there for the whole day on sat. aug, 31st.Let me know if you want to join me. As it gets closer I'll put out my cell phone number so you can get ahold of me.And lets prove to all the nay sayers that there is stil alot of PF left to be found.Of course people from anywhere are welcome if you are in the area.Let me know. steve arnold p.s. weather permitting! = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban
Dear List, It is interesting to note that the Non-Antarctic to Antarctic ratio is different when it comes to planetary material. SNCs Qty Non-AntarcticQty Antarctic 18 10 Lunar Qty Non-Antarctic Qty Antarctic 15 12 This ratio is also starting to favor other rare material. The desert is proving to be bountiful for new study material. All the best, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Wrong from Washington
But There is also a case for NOT educating the press on the exact ins and outs of meteorite falls, phrases like I burnt my hands it set fire to my garden etc, are excellent ways of distinguishing false falls from potentially genuine ones, as soon as all the press reports sound believable, we will be over whelmed with reports that would end up wasting all our time. Mark Ford
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban
Hi Steve and List Steve thats so true. But, by the same token, those who introduce or lobby for bans on fossil or meteorite are sometimes those most ignorant of the items themselves and are glory seekers. Just ask Mel Fisher's family what credentials the museum curator had who took Fisher to court forcing Florida to back him in saying the treasures Fisher found belonged to Florida. Or, how much of a world class paleontologist is the museum curator who started the T. Rex Sue lawsuit. They were both out for the kudos, since they couldn't and wouldn't profit personally from their actions, or would they? Ask a world class expert in either fieldhow much they depend on the amateur collectors for new finds. Doesn't matter if that amateur is a dealer or not. Only that they bring new material to the attention of the scientists. Mark - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban Hello List,What is so hard to understand about this?Let's not forget that the science of meteoritics is big business. Well, not big by Microsoft or American Airlines standards, but compared to collecting it sure is. I was given a number a couple years ago that $12,000,000 a year is given out in grant money to study meteorites.It is hard to put a handle on how many dollars of meteorites are sold in the collecting field to the END consumer. Let's not count the same $5 specimen over and over again as it gets sold and traded to dealer after dealer 6 times then to ebay a few times before getting to a collector as if it were $50 in sales. Researching meteorites pays a lot more each year than all the dealing or field hunting pays.The point is that if a Canadian Meteorite crosses the border and a researcher in the US gets it, the US institution that researcher works for gets the grant money and NOT the Canadian Institution (or researcher who gets the pay check from said institution). This of course goes for any other country that lets a meteorite get out. However, I have not heard too many complaints from the Libyan Meteoritical Society about them losing jobs because they can't get grant money from NASA, because a DaG SNC slipped across of their borders. Folks, it is always about the money.If an attorney is writing a paper on it, ask who is paying him to write the paper? Or ask who is he wanting to see his "advertisement" so someone might hire him in the future as "the foremost legal authority on anti-collecting?" Either way, it comes back to money. I mean come on, do we really believe that he is spending this time because he feels a moral obligation to devote his life to correcting this major injustice is our modern society?I think it is politically incorrect for a scientist to stand up and speak up for the collecting community, so it is hard to know how many support us, and how many really don't. But I have asked around, and I have yet to find one single researcher who bashes dealers and field collectors for "only being in meteorites for profit" who also endorses their paychecks each week and donates them back to the institution they work for. Is this the kettle calling the pot black or what?As far as I know, Art Elhmann at T.C.U. is the only scientist that has been actively contributing to the science who is working for free. I mean, he is getting a pension, but I don't think he makes anything extra for doing what he has done these last few years in helping our science. And even if he did make more money, that is OK, the point is that he is one scientist who supports us. Even Jeff Grossman, who most of us really appreciate what all he does for us, is hesitant to even take a side on this issue! Can we blame him?It seems most researchers might only be in meteorites for the money too. Could it be that they want as big of the $12,000,000 pie as they can get? If they can squeeze out some their competition, and get a monopoly on the money game of meteoritics, then maybe their jobs will be more secure? If only they could squeeze out the collectors and also squeeze out researchers in other countries, then they can keep more money for themselves. But if evil field collectors, smuggle their future pay raises out to researchers in other countries, then that is "bad for science." Don't get dragged off on the rabbit trail of "what is best for science." We all KNOW what is best for science. So do they. They are just hoping their legislators (fellow government employees) won't look deep enough to see the greed behind their requests and add the bill to some Farm Subsidy Bill on page 634. And if their fellow government employees DO see through their requests, maybe a "wink and a nod" will get it passed anyway, especially if
Re: [meteorite-list] Spoof warning Additional, State Parks
Ahhh Sarah and all, You needed Mr. Smith and Wesson. One shot through the windshield usually gets most idiots to back off!! Of course they might have been armed as well but I think if they were they would have used that option. It is a dangerous area for a lot of reasons. Glad you made it back safe and I wouldn't loose sleep over it as it now makes you more experienced and better equipped to handle future events like that. Had something similar like that happen to me one time. --AL __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Want to trade for:
Dear List members, If any of you want to trade large specimens of the following please let us know: ZAGAMI SAU 005 or anything in the series DAG 476 or anything in the series DAG 400 Any inexpensive Lunar or Martian material in appreciable sizes We are looking to lend these specimens out for public lecture sessions and do not want to use specimens from our collection which are being preserved for future science. We will consider part trade/part cash deals if the specimens are large enough. Please let us know. All the best, Adam and Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection IMCA 2185 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
FW: [meteorite-list] Finding things OTHER than meteorites...
Once, out off RT66 in Arizona, I found a pile of male and female clothes, an empty bottle of Jack Daniels, and a Doors CD. Each pile of clothes was missing one sock, so the owners should be easy to identify... =CharlyV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Freeman Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 6:23 PM To: meteorite-list Subject: [meteorite-list] Finding things OTHER than meteorites... Dear List; This weekend I found a .40 scale radio controlled airplane crashed in the desert. With in 24 hours I had found the former owner and returned the wreckage. No survivors were located in the wreckage. Paul Harris was interested in seeing just what other odd stuff we have found while hunting meteorites. Anyone interested in a reply, please reply to me, and send a photo to me (in a smaller size kb jpeg file) and let's see what we get... This might be interesting. I would expect the boys from Holbrook a couple years back to come up with the Vaca Murta photo. Best, Dave Freeman __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 801
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not sure why this Subject keeps reoccurring on the List. Also, not sure why we are troubling Jeff about meteorites that haven't been submitted to his Committee I for one, wasn't completely ignorant of the fact that NWA 801 hadn't been submitted to his Committee, I was wondering WHY it hadn't. I think most of the players in the meteorite community understand the general naming procedure. But when rocks like NWA 801 and Begaa come along, and enjoy widespread distribution to collectors while remaining officially unrecognized for a disproportionally long period of time, (while many more recent rocks with equal or lesser importance DO get recognition), it just can't help but engender a little curiosity. I took Jeff's own answer on the list, that he'd look into it (Begaa) tomorrow, to mean that some wrinkle other than the usual naming backlog might be involved, or that there was a piece of the puzzle missing. If Begaa was just an oversight on someone's part or some other simple explanation, so be it - it was just an innocent question and surely has a logical answer. ... it's simple... ...[snip]...I'm convinced that this simple procedure is more widely understood than many of the people who feign misunderstanding the process would lead you to believe. Lord, I do hope so! I know the procedure.my question was, what prevented said procedure from being followed? Still interested in hearing the Begaa answer, either from Bob or Jeff or anyone else who might be able to shed some light. Thanx - Gregory
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Law
I wonder if Douglas Schmitt's interviews could in any stretch of the term be considered a scientific sample? Does he even attempt a qualitative and quantitative assessment of the contributions to the field by finders, collectors, dealers, academics, scientists, etc? Byron Groves gives an encouraging interpretation of Meteorite Law on his website: http://www.bgroveswon.com/meteoritelaw/meteorite_law.html Byron's bottom line: Based on the skimpy facts, my conclusion would be that the finder rightful on the land would have as much ownership of the find as could be owned. Let's keep our community united in diversity! Nick __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban
Dear Sergey and List, I feel the performance increase in rare finds from the desert is attributable to free enterprise and education. Moroccans and nomads know they will get more for an achondrite than a normal chondrite. They have learned that meteorites do not need to be magnetic and are now searching for anything out of place. We receive dozens of non-magnetic samples every month, about 10% being meteorites. Lots of fresh material is starting to show up because they know they will receive more money for it. We have been receiving more W0s and W1s than ever before. Three different mesosiderites have shown up in less than a year! The only thing that doesn't show up in greater numbers are irons. I believe there are now over 7,000 nomads, basically an army, keeping an eye out for meteorites. This has everything to do with the amount of material coming out of the Sahara. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: Sergey Vasiliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban Dear Adam and List, Yes, you are right that desert has been easily outperforming Antarctica. But why? That was the question actually... What will happened if you will have enough money to send 100 Moroccans to search the ice for one month? ;-) Bernd, can you estimate it, please? ;-) Nothing against - just wondering... Good night (morning) and all the best, Sergey Sergey Vasiliev U Dalnice 839 Prague 5, 15500 Czech Republic www.sv-meteorites.com www.meteorites4you.com www.sv-minerals.com Dear Sergey and List, I wish I had the time to manage just such a database but this would represent a full-time effort. I think Bernd could tweak his data base to extrapolate some of this data. Maybe if we are nice he will do such a thing. My opinion is that the desert has been easily outperforming Antarctica the last two years and will continue to do so just as long as the laws remain favorable. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: Sergey Vasiliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban Dear List and Adam, I do not have my copy of MetBase 6.0 yet so it is difficult for me to compare the latest SNCs numbers but... ;-) What about somebody who have a time and knowledge (Adam?) will make a mathematic formula to compare hot/cold deserts finds? Something like that: Deserts Finds: QOF = ((n * t)/S) * LUCK * EXPIRIENSE QOF = Quantity Of Finds n = quantity of nomads or other meteorite hunters or scientists involved in prospecting for meteorites t = average time of one nomad (hunter, scientist) searching for meteorites S = area in square km LUCK - I don't know the math for that yet ;-) EXPIRIENSE - All I know about this parameter is that it is going better time wise Sure you can add some parameters for moving ice in Antarctica to enlarge the S. But... you have to accept that penguins were witness of the falls (too bad we can't understand it yet) Anyway: (Non-Antarctic MINUS witness falls) in compare for the deserts. Sergey Dear List, It is interesting to note that the Non-Antarctic to Antarctic ratio is different when it comes to planetary material. SNCs Qty Non-AntarcticQty Antarctic 18 10 Lunar Qty Non-Antarctic Qty Antarctic 15 12 This ratio is also starting to favor other rare material. The desert is proving to be bountiful for new study material. All the best, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Adventures/ all talk
Ill bet, Like that new Lunar you say is from Egypt? Ill bet. I know greg went to Egypt on a tour a few years back. Involved means nothing if you don't go. Adam, I know alot more than you might imagine. I was also invited on your stupid Algeria trip, Jim and I both, what a scam that one was. Good luck in it, you'll need it if you mess with that crap. How could I be jealous? I was in Lesotho at that time. Is Kenya somehow different? Last month was my 26th trip to Africa. 26 to your ONE Adam, but you write your articles as though you've been around the world about 100 times. Do that math will you, is it that hard? Mike Farmer By that way, I did not ask you to meddle in my ebay data, you chose to do so and make a snide remark that was not called for, that is why I spoke up here.
[meteorite-list] 2 fossils left.
Hi list.Just throwing this out to you all.I have 2 very nice fossils I will trade for cheap nwa meteorites.$80 VALUE.These are the last of my fossils.Let me know. steve = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Any Perseid reports?
I spent from sunset until 11:30pm Bass Fishing on Bartlett Lake, about 40 miles northeast of Phoenix AZ. Before the moon rose we saw approximately 20 good long streaking meteors. Once the moon rose that number dropped to 5 total until we left. Mars was awesome! For those that might be interested: The lake was glass calm, air temp near 100, water temp surface 89 degrees at sundown, 86 when we left. Fishing from float tubes...9-25 feet of water, 12 bass 2 lb range all on dropshot rigs and 4 inch texas rigged senkos. Cuban rum and cuban cigars...flat waterbats and nighthawks...good friends...lots of laughs. Mark M. Phoenix AZ - Original Message - From: Robert Woolard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 5:03 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Any Perseid reports? Hello List, Does anyone have any reports on what the Perseids were like last night? We've had a lot of clouds this week here in Little Rock, and were completely socked in, with light rain off and on. It doesn't look much better tonight for any after-the-peak stragglers, either. I hope others of you had better conditions (in spite of the full moon) and had a good show to share with us! Thanks. Robert Woolard __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay (Zagami Mars Meteorite)
Hello Everyone, To think they will realize this kind of price for Zagami is ridiculous. Maybe they should handle the Frass material or the spent blown-out comet that landed in somebody's back yard a while back. You would think with a half million dollar offering they would get their facts straight. I noticed they are timing the sale with the closest approach of Mars in 60,000 years, the only smart piece of marketing I have see regarding this proposed sale. I feel Martian material is a good investment right now because of all the future missions to Mars will spark a renewed interest but I do not feel this kind of money will be realized for a 188 gram specimen of Zagami. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Ron Baalke' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:15 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] RE: Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay (Zagami Mars Meteorite) Hi All, Regarding the pending auction of the good-sized piece of Zagami, I found the following line with the quote by John Saul amusing: In the certification John states, I have never personally seen a finer specimen of any of the Mars Meteorites in the hands of a private individual. Okay, here's my answer to John: http://www.meteoriteman.com/collection/zagami.htm (Technically it's not in the hands of Bob Haag, but rather only one hand... ;-) I'm sure Bob Verish/Ron Baalke could provide images of Bob holding LA 001 and/or LA 002, at least one of which should qualify as being a finer specimen of a Mars meteorite in the hand(s) of a private individual. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: The Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay (Zagami Mars Meteorite)]
Linda, Thank you for your prompt response. Please take a look at the pdf file from the Mars Meteoritic Compendium 2003 regarding the Zagami meteorite. This file is both in the sell2all and NASA web pages, http://www.sell2all.com/mars/index1.htm and http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/curator/antmet/mmc/zagami.pdf. If you read to the end of the article there you can find all about the age of this meteorite and it is not 1.3 billion years. This is a NASA document and it is in your web page, in the page you adversise the sell of this meteorite. So how is it that you advertise it as 1.3 billion years, yet qoute a NASA document in which the age is almost ten times less? Andres Posada Linda McClenny wrote: We have numerous published reports from different sources on the Zagami history, and they all say the age is 1.3 billion years of age.Thanks for your interest.Best Regards, LindaLinda McClenny Linda, Inc. 205-556-9537 office 205-553-0956 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Andres Posada To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 10:31 AM Subject: [Fwd: [meteorite-list] Re: The Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay (Zagami Mars Meteorite)] Ron Baalke wrote: > >LINCOLN, Neb., Aug. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- Now is your chance to own a rare 1.3 > >Billion year old piece of the Red Planet! The largest known specimen in > >circulation (188 grams) of the famous Mars rock Zagami, is owned by a private > >individual > > Sounds like they're getting their Mars meteorites mixed up. Zagami is a > shergottite, which is 180 million years old. Nakhilites, another > type of Mars meteorite, are 1.3 billion years old. Zagami is the largest > single Mars meteorite stone at 18 kg, or 40 pounds, when it fell in 1962. > So, this 188 gram fragment is roughly 1/100th of the original main mass, > though still rather sizeable for a Mars meteorite. > > >Some estimates value this specimen at over $2,000,000. > > That translates to over $10,000/gram, which is extremely optimistic. > That is about 20 to 30 times the current market rate for Zagami. > > >Out of 22,000 meteorites known to man, only 13 are actually > >known to be "Martian." > > There are currently 28 known Mars meteorites. > > Ron Baalke > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban
Dear Sergey and List, I wish I had the time to manage just such a database but this would represent a full-time effort. I think Bernd could tweak his data base to extrapolate some of this data. Maybe if we are nice he will do such a thing. My opinion is that the desert has been easily outperforming Antarctica the last two years and will continue to do so just as long as the laws remain favorable. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: Sergey Vasiliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban Dear List and Adam, I do not have my copy of MetBase 6.0 yet so it is difficult for me to compare the latest SNCs numbers but... ;-) What about somebody who have a time and knowledge (Adam?) will make a mathematic formula to compare hot/cold deserts finds? Something like that: Deserts Finds: QOF = ((n * t)/S) * LUCK * EXPIRIENSE QOF = Quantity Of Finds n = quantity of nomads or other meteorite hunters or scientists involved in prospecting for meteorites t = average time of one nomad (hunter, scientist) searching for meteorites S = area in square km LUCK - I don't know the math for that yet ;-) EXPIRIENSE - All I know about this parameter is that it is going better time wise Sure you can add some parameters for moving ice in Antarctica to enlarge the S. But... you have to accept that penguins were witness of the falls (too bad we can't understand it yet) Anyway: (Non-Antarctic MINUS witness falls) in compare for the deserts. Sergey Dear List, It is interesting to note that the Non-Antarctic to Antarctic ratio is different when it comes to planetary material. SNCs Qty Non-AntarcticQty Antarctic 18 10 Lunar Qty Non-Antarctic Qty Antarctic 15 12 This ratio is also starting to favor other rare material. The desert is proving to be bountiful for new study material. All the best, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: New Blood: Not Just the Job of Dealers
Steve, Well done! Reasonable request! If I had some small pieces they would be yours. Best, kn #9632 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] FW: The Vitim event and more
Hello, all, spent with my friend about two weeks in Irkutsk lately and we also made a few days trip to Bodaibo-area (very large indeed) to meet some local gold-diggers. The locals dont have more information about the case, and as I told, the potential falling area is huge, travelling is difficult, gold-miners are not most friendly for strangers and so on. So I suppose, this case will stay unsolved, if there is not someone willing to put some millions for the expedition with couple of planes, helicopters, trucks and so on... And in fact even that doesnt quarantee anything. Siberia is a strange place, and there happen strange things. And its also true, theres so much to find, you can in fact find, what you are looking for, as somebody wrote some time ago on the list. take care, pekka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert and others,Serg from the Comet Meteorite Shop told me the same thing about Vitim at the Springfield show. He said that travel to the area was long and difficult...and that more money would be needed to do a serious investigation of the site. He did say they had soil to evaluate, and that the impact/explosion(?) damage to the area was significant. This might have been a smaller scale Tunguska-like event? Much more work on the site it is needed for sure.John Forward Message --Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:25:57 +0400From: "Andrei Ol'khovatov" Subject: (meteorobs) The Vitim event and moreDear All,Expeditions have returned from the Vitim bolideepicenter. No fragments were discovered. Some samplesof soil etc. were taken to analyse in labs.Along the trajectory numerous small and fierceforest-falls were discovered with unknown origin. In my opinion, it is not clear whether they exist justin there (and absent in other areas), as theexpeditions (as I understand from brief reports) werejust along the trajectory. Hoping that more detailedinfo will appear soon.Here is a fresh "meteorite impact" article on"something" another:http://www.detnews.com/2003/metro/0308/12/c01-242704.htmDespite that it i s not clear "what it was", it soundsinteresting to investigate.Best wishes,Andrei Ol'khovatovRussia, MoscowFrom the archive and Web site for the Meteorobs list:http://www.meteorobs.org--__Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design softwarehttp://sitebuilder.yahoo.com__Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[meteorite-list] Antarctic meteorite stats
Hi All, On the question of the total mass of all Antarctic meteorites, Al commented: This is and would be an important consideration. I have noticed that a lot of the Antarctic falls are sometimes very small. Total mass would shed an interesting correlation to non-Antarctic finds. ... Also the Antarctic falls are from hundreds and thousands of years ago. Perhaps as much as 800,000 years ago, so there is a concentration of the falls on the ice sheets which may be distorting the numbers more. This is part of the reason that despite the huge number of statistical samples from Antarctica, it would be very difficult to compute an accurate annual meteorite fall rate from them. Among the many factors you would have to consider: 1. Movement of the ice sheets over tens of thousands of years. Where meteorites are found today is not easily correlated to where they actually fell. A square kilometer of a particular patch of ice today may correspond to a quite different size and shape for that surface in the past. You also have zones of concentration, where large effective collection areas have been compressed into small strips. Searching 1 km^2 of such a surface may be the equivalent of searching 10, 100, or even a 1000 km^2. 2. Variable meteorite fall rate over the last half-million or more years. The long lifetime of meteorites in Antarctica means that any derived fall rate will represent an average over that lifetime. It is likely that the flux today is different from what it was several hundred thousand years ago. I doubt that scientists have done terrestrial age dating on more than a tiny fraction of Antarctic finds, so you have both the uncertainty of the average age of all your samples and the temporal variability in the flux rate. 3. Pairing uncertainty. Geographical location of the finds doesn't help you much if the surface doesn't stay put. ;-) Pairing of rare types can at least give you a good estimate of the average number of specimens per fall (somewhere in the range of 3-6), so this ratio can simply be applied to the common types. With these factors in mind, has anyone attempted to estimate the annual fall rate derived from the number of Antarctic meteorite finds? Cheers, Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NEW BLOOD
Hi Dave, First, let me thank you for contributing to the growth of the meteorite community - also for you kind words about my article. As for increased buyers in that area, you are the only one I am aware of, though I do not know if Rock Springs and Green River are towns or counties - I would only recognize whatever appears in the mailing address. In addition, of course, there are tons of other sellers these days. That was one of my points in the article - for dealers to promote the growth of the collector base, they must accept that it is only as the total mass increases that they will personally benefit. It is not a one to one deal whereby you promote collecting to ten new collectors and then experience ten new customers, personally. I have heard SO many dealers express resentment about competition instead of viewing the entire community in a cooperative light. It is unfortunate for the dealers, themselves, though, ironically, it works in the favor of the collectors. Perhaps I should reserve further comment at this time, as this, itself, would make an excellent article. In any event, keep up the good work! . and thanks, again, Michael on 8/5/03 8:58 PM, David Freeman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List, and Michael Blood; I really enjoyed the articles in the latest Meteorite Times, and was quite intrigued on the new blood concept in Michael Blood's article. I do my very best to generate new blood. I was curious if any of the dealers around ever ship meteorites to Wyoming, specifically, South West Wyoming (Rock Springs, Green River)? I know my core group here have purchased some now and then from list members but with my past winter's lecture series, and four years of passing out fliers, I am a little curious if it is resulting in any noticeable traffic in specimens to my area of influence. With a larger population in the larger cities, it would be harder to trace the effect of one or a few collectors, but in an isolated area like this (minus the ebay factor) it would be interesting to get a feel for any collector dynamics evolving from my efforts. Any thoughts, either on or off list would be appreciated. Best, Dave Freeman __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list SUPPORT OUR TROUPS: http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html -- Facts are stupid things. Ronald Reagan -- Worth Seeing: - Earth at night from satellite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm - Earth - variety of choices: http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html -- Panoramic view of Meteor Crater: http://www.virtualguidebooks.com/Arizona/GrandCanyonRoute66/MeteorCrater/Met eorCraterRimL.html -- Cool Calendar Clock: http://www.yugop.com/ver3/stuff/03/fla.html -- Michael Blood Meteorites Didgeridoos for sale at: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban
Dear Eric and List, I agree, to number each find from Antarctica heavily skews the results. If every one of the Tazas we have gone through each received a number it would number into the thousands, same for Bensour, same for NWA 869. We have over 8,000 individual meteorites, not fragments from Northwest Africa, mostly ordinary chondrites that sit in storage because we cannot find a lab interested in studying them. Using the 3.5:1 ratio would mean we have over 2,285 different finds, a ridiculous number. I feel all of these stones might represent only about 90 falls at the very most, a 25:1 ratio. We have been donating these stones on a regular basis to observatories and schools for hand specimens, at least they are not thrown in a box and forgotten about. I think ratios are very misleading when comparing desert finds to Antarctic finds. All the Best, Adam Hupe - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban In a message dated 8/8/2003 12:25:16 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are right; it is hard to compare the statistics. I had waited to reply hoping for additional statistics from Bernd (I don't envy you the updating task), but here goes. I have rearranged parts of Jeff's email to make it easier for me to answer. If I have taken anything out of context I apologize in advance. But let's face it... you can't get even close to statements that were made indicating that 95% of new meteorites are commercially collected ones. I agree completely. However this comment line was started in response to comments supporting a collecting ban by individuals who believe the collector/dealer/hunter's contributions are insignificant and completely irrelevant to scientific endevors. That isn't supported by the statistics either. As for rare meteorites, which I will define as non-ordinary-chondrites, there are 1550 from Antarctica and 467 from commercial collections. Let's refine the numbers a bit. Pretty much the start of hot desert collecting was in 1998. Of the numbers you quote above how many are since the start of 1998? Do the same pairing numbers Lindstrom estimated apply to the non-ordinary-chondrites? I don't have access to a database so Jeff if you could let us know I would appreciate it. Meteorites that formed strewn fields get just as many numbers in the Sahara as in Antarctica (one per specimen). I was under the impression that each specimen gets a separate designation in antarctica. If there was a witnessed fall in Antarctica such as bensour in Africa would it get a single name and entry in the catalog listing or would each stone found get a separate designation and entry? I can't make that estimate. That is one of the reasons that I asked about the total mass of Antarctic meteorites. Statistically it would be reasonable to assume the ratio of OCs to other meteorite types would be similar. Certainly differences in weathering will affect the numbers some, but in gross approximation they should be somewhat similar. If there is 10 or 100 times as much mass coming out of the hot desert there should be 10 or 100 times the rare stuff, or at least 2 to 20 times. High mass strewn fields certainly could affect the statistics however neither region has many iron meteorites which would be most likely to affect the approximation. Stony falls aren't big enough that one fall should affect the gross approximation that much. Eric Olson http://www.star-bits.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Most Expensive Meteorite Ever Sold on eBay (Zagami Mars Meteo rite)
I remember the aborted Southby's auction of three Martian meteorites a number of years ago. A large piece of Nakhla ~90 grams?, a large piece of Zagami ~190 grams?; and a fragment of Chassigny ~12.5 grams? I was looking for the auction catalog, which was in my files, so my memory of the weights are in question. Could this be the same Zagami that was offered in that auction which failed? Certainly, the price is high, but considering the possible source, possibly an infamous dealer in Conneticut, this asking price is in line with him. Could the un-named owner of it be the same person that attempted to auction the pieces some number of years ago? $1.2 million was the opening bid price; the auction failed. Steve Schoner/ams --- Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, Regarding the pending auction of the good-sized piece of Zagami, I found the following line with the quote by John Saul amusing: In the certification John states, I have never personally seen a finer specimen of any of the Mars Meteorites in the hands of a private individual. Okay, here's my answer to John: http://www.meteoriteman.com/collection/zagami.htm (Technically it's not in the hands of Bob Haag, but rather only one hand... ;-) I'm sure Bob Verish/Ron Baalke could provide images of Bob holding LA 001 and/or LA 002, at least one of which should qualify as being a finer specimen of a Mars meteorite in the hand(s) of a private individual. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: PayPal spoof warning
This has been going around for some time. I never let money pile up in my account. I had my card number stolen in Brazil, and they got me for $800 in just a few minutes. It was refunded, but remember, PAYPAL is a cash account, debit, so money can be stolen from it, that is what these scumbags are doing. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 10:58 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: PayPal spoof warning Hi All, I probably don't need to warn most of you, but just to cover the bases I thought I would post a message here since many of you probably use PayPal. Some enterprising individual(s) is/are attempting to trick PayPal customers into revealing detailed account information. Usually these spoofs are pretty unsophisticated, but the one I got today looked official enough that someone might get fooled. It starts off with: This e-mail is the notification of recent innovations taken by PayPal to detect inactive customers and non-functioning mailboxes. The inactive customers are subject to restriction and removal in the next 3 months. Please confirm your email address and credit card information by logging in to your PayPal account using the form below: - - - - A form appears with boxes for email address, password, name, credit card #, expiration date, and ATM PIN (for bank verification). It finishes with the somewhat official-looking paragraphs: This PayPal notification was sent to your mailbox. Your PayPal account is set up to receive the PayPal Periodical newsletter and product updates when you create your account. To modify your notification preferences and unsubscribe, go to https://www.paypal.com/PREFS-NOTI and log in to your account. Changes to your preferences may take several days to be reflected in our mailings. Replies to this email will not be processed. Copyright© 2003 PayPal Inc. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners. - - - If they hadn't been so stupid to ask for my ATM PIN, I might have been a little less suspicious. Just wonder if this should this be reported somewhere that handles fraud cases? --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban
Dear Adam and List, Yes, you are right that desert has been easily outperforming Antarctica. But why? That was the question actually... What will happened if you will have enough money to send 100 Moroccans to search the ice for one month? ;-) Bernd, can you estimate it, please? ;-) Nothing against - just wondering... Good night (morning) and all the best, Sergey Sergey Vasiliev U Dalnice 839 Prague 5, 15500 Czech Republic www.sv-meteorites.com www.meteorites4you.com www.sv-minerals.com Dear Sergey and List, I wish I had the time to manage just such a database but this would represent a full-time effort. I think Bernd could tweak his data base to extrapolate some of this data. Maybe if we are nice he will do such a thing. My opinion is that the desert has been easily outperforming Antarctica the last two years and will continue to do so just as long as the laws remain favorable. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: Sergey Vasiliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban Dear List and Adam, I do not have my copy of MetBase 6.0 yet so it is difficult for me to compare the latest SNCs numbers but... ;-) What about somebody who have a time and knowledge (Adam?) will make a mathematic formula to compare hot/cold deserts finds? Something like that: Deserts Finds: QOF = ((n * t)/S) * LUCK * EXPIRIENSE QOF = Quantity Of Finds n = quantity of nomads or other meteorite hunters or scientists involved in prospecting for meteorites t = average time of one nomad (hunter, scientist) searching for meteorites S = area in square km LUCK - I don't know the math for that yet ;-) EXPIRIENSE - All I know about this parameter is that it is going better time wise Sure you can add some parameters for moving ice in Antarctica to enlarge the S. But... you have to accept that penguins were witness of the falls (too bad we can't understand it yet) Anyway: (Non-Antarctic MINUS witness falls) in compare for the deserts. Sergey Dear List, It is interesting to note that the Non-Antarctic to Antarctic ratio is different when it comes to planetary material. SNCs Qty Non-AntarcticQty Antarctic 18 10 Lunar Qty Non-Antarctic Qty Antarctic 15 12 This ratio is also starting to favor other rare material. The desert is proving to be bountiful for new study material. All the best, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
