[meteorite-list] Meteorites and sulfurous odors
Regarding the reports you mentioned about historic falls, I wouldn't take the assertions there to seriously. As we all know, meteorites fall cold, but nevertheless the old reports tells the stone was to hot to tuch, it glowed 3 days, the ground was hot and so on... Best! Martin Hi Martin, I have to strongly disagree. First of all, who says we all know meteorites fall cold? I guess you're saying that all the accounts to the contrary don't count? What about the piece of Portales Valley that melted into the tarp it fell on? Secondly, I'll grant you the possibility that meteorites may fall cold, but after they strike the ground they may not be cold any longer due to the kinetic energy of motion being instantly converted the heat. Obviously this applies to heavier stones more than small ones. A walnut sized meteorite with a correspondingly slow terminal velocity would likely be cold both falling and after landing. The larger the stone, the less likely this is to be true. When it comes to irons, there are two additional factors. One is the higher terminal velocity for a given weight, due to the higher density. The second is that upon impact much more of the kinetic energy is converted to heat, and less is dissipated in crushing, as irons don't crush like stones might. Think about striking an anvil with a hammer or a stone. The hammer will get hot, the stone won't. I think if you examine the historical accounts you will see that accounts of cold meteorites almost always refer to small ones and that accounts of warm or hot ones more often refer to much larger pieces, or irons. Although I'm confident of my reasoning, I don't remember reading anywhere of a similar explanation. Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Entry Dynamics in Peru
As to the mention of dense atmosphere, doesn't 90% of the mass of the atmosphere lie below 2.5 miles above sea level? From my mountain climbing days, I remember that the rule of thumb was that 50% of the atmosphere was below 3.5 miles or 18,000 feet. The highest I made was the summit of Popocatepetl in Mexico, 17,800 feet above sea level. Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New email from Gregory, total change of tone.
There is a definite change in tone in his apology email and this one too. Is it sincere? Or is it like our old friend Ssssteve? Only time will tell. Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] News and Views in Peru
Hi Sterling, Cazameteoritos means meteorite hunter, or meteorite chaser. Nothing pejorative there, just an accurate description of Mike Farmer. Sincerely, Mike Fowler Chicago PS My wife is Peruvian. There is an implication (but no direct statement) that trafficing in meteorites is a shady quasi-legal affair, as there is much emphasis on the fact that Mike buys and sells them. I wish I knew what cazameteoritos means but the online translator won't translate it (nor the word caza either). Meteorite traders? Meteorite peddlers? Meteorite Con-men? Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dr Daniels - proposal for new name
I think it is high time for Randall Gregory to sign his own emails and stop using a phony name, with a phony Dr. attached! I also think that if he is so sensitive to the feelings of the local people as he claims, he should never have repeated that joke about caca for the Bolivians Bolivians are people too, and that remark is very offensive! Sincerely, Mike Fowler Chicago Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :) A meteorite couldn't have hit in a more beautiful place. I propose Lake Titicaca meteorite. I also propose that the met-list votes on this. Then, would anyone like to support start the submission to the Meteoritical Society? Dr. Richard Daniels __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dr Daniels - proposal for new name
Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :) snip.. Apparently you have lost your sense of humor. It is a common Peruvian joke. The Bolivians think it's funny also. I make no apologies. snip.. Randall, It is quite common that the person who tells a joke disparaging blacks, italians, poles, etc. thinks the joke is funny, but the person on the receiving end doesn't. If you want to test what I'm talking about, maybe you could cross over the border to Bolivia and tell such a joke about lake Titicaca in a local bar, late at night! I also noticed that you have a hard time accepting any criticism without descending into the gutter, or perhaps the toilet? Sincerely, Mike Fowler Chicago If I were you, I would start looking for your sense of humor. It's probably hiding under your bed. Or maybe you accidently flushed it down the toilet. Randall __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Andi's Recrystallized NWA iron
Hello Andi, Mike and List, Those interested in an iron that will be extremely difficult to classify had better hurry because Andi is almost sold out. I am pleased I will soon own #17 and I've been brooding tonight over Andi's pics and Ted Bunch's preliminary description of that one-of-a-kind iron, its carbon rosettes, its granular kamacite, its iron, nickel, cobalt, phosphorus and Si contents. I went through numerous Vagn Buchwald pages reading about and looking at several pics of IIF irons trying to figure out what this new iron might be. I re-read information about La Caille, but, ... nothing comes really close to what this weird iron looks like. Can hardly wait to look at it under my microscope and am eagerly waiting for final classification results from Ted Bunch and other labs! This iron is so weird that even Ted Bunch is not sure yet whether it should be classified as a IAB, a IIF or a IIICD iron! Best wishes, Bernd I too bought one of Andi's slices. Slice #13. I read Ted Bunch's preliminary analysis and it seemed like the Co content was way too low to be a member of the IAB group. In fact in seemed low period. I wish I had Metbase handy so I could make more comparisons. Any else have an opinion about the Co content? Mike Fowler Chicago ebay starsandrocks Phase compositions via SEM EDS in weight percent: Fe Ni Co P Si Kamacite91.47.4 0.45 0.4 0.32 Taenite 67.430.6 0.13 0.130.22 Bulk 85.514.2 0.21 0.350.27 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Doubting Thomas
I have problems with the meteorite theory: 1. Meteorites, as this List knows, come in cold, not hot enough to make the water in the crater boiling, as several witnesses stated. 2. Meteorites usually travel a long distance from where the glowing meteor is first seen. If the locals saw the bolide, chances are good whatever they saw fell a long distance away, not close enough for them to get there soon after it fell. 3. Speaking of rocks, by now, everyone in every little hamlet knows that there are crazy people out there who pay big money for meteorites. If there was a shower of rocks associated with the fall, how come none of the other purported meteorites have been recovered? 4. I await the analysis of a real meteorite specialist, not a geologist, not a vulcanologist, and not media speculation! No reputable scientist from outside Peru has so far investigated the crater or seen the alleged meteorite fragments. 5. The sickness associated with the crater is a likely red herring, and unrelated to a real meteorite. My 2 centavos. Tracy Latimer Tracy, Point one: Meteorites may be cold, but when the several hundred kilograms (or more) of mass comes to a complete stop from a speed of hundreds of KM per hour, most of the kinetic heat of motion is turned into heat. You do the math, but if hitting a hammer on an anvil can make it hot, just think of something thousands of times heavier, and thousands of times more velocity and the result is obvious! Point two: Small meteorites loose their cosmic velocity miles high, and and the rest of their fall is dark. A very large meteor will retain a substantial amount of its cosmic velocity until impact. Why should it not be incandescent up untill the moment of impact? Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Iron Meteorites IIG Group
Hi List, I recently saw a small Tombigbee iron on ebay incorrectly listed as ungrouped, which it was, till the the Guanaco meteorite was determined to be the 5 member necessary to form a group. My question is this: Why IIG? Why not IIIG, or IVC? or some other designation? Thanks, Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mysterious chunks of ice pelt Iowa town
There are some pretty good pictures on the CNN site. Everyone keep their head down Mike Groetz http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/27/falling.ice.ap/index.html The most notable thing about the photo is the amount of dirt in and on the ice. Assuming this is not from hitting the ground, the contaminants, what ever they are should, upon suitable testing, give a clear indication where the ice came from. Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] unclean gao givaway
Well said Mark. Mike Fowler Chicago Seriously - if Steve annoys you that much, can't you work out how to set up a killfile? It's a lot easier than composing a smart-ass, humiliating reply to every post he makes... Chill out and live a little. We're a long time dead. Mark drtanuki wrote: Steve, I had to look it up in the dictionary, your unclean, that is. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
Jason, Thanks for speaking up for civility on the list. Mike Fowler Chicago Hello Ken, Bill, Mark, All, Ken's message just informed 600+ people that there was a fraudulent seller on ebay. Ben's post told 600+ people that *he* was fed up with reading other peoples' posts about fraudulent sellers. This is one of those cases where I would have to say that, without a doubt, Ken had every right to post his message, and you had no right to tell him off, Bill. Even if you don't care to read posts about suspicious/fraudulent sellers, posts such as Ken's obey all list rules, and perform a service to novices who may be lurking on the list (or scanning list archives on google), hoping to find information on what and what not to buy. If you don't like reading them, delete them, and if you get fed up with a single person's posts, by all means, block them or filter out there posts through selective email scanning (most email services have this sort of feature) - but don't post personal attacks to the list like you just did, because posts such as that are actually in direct violation of list policies. All talk must be meteorite-related and non-combative, at least with regard to pointed statements such as Are you bored to death? It's simply uncalled for. If you don't like posts such as this, and feel a need to respond, please do so privately (and, I hope, politely in the future). Bill, the person you mentioned in your message, Matteo, came onto the list while I was here and has come and gone a few times since then. He was blocked a few times for posting private messages to the list and using...inappropriate language. People may have gotten onto his case for posting ebay warnings, but I believe that they actually did so because of his warnings pertaining to the classic 'Nigerian scam' postings that everyone seems to get (They're so easy to recognize in general, that people get annoyed when warned of such things.) ...That, and he's an easy target - people on this list seem to get into a frenzy when someone who's not too eloquent or perhaps not a native English speaker comes on and posts...it's sad, but even true meteorite enthusiasts with good intentions get beaten up on here; it's just a fact that hasn't changed in, well, the nine years I've been on here. Sorry this goes out to the list, but I do think it has something to do with list policy in general - perhaps attacks could become a little less...prolific. Regards, Jason __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Hal Povenmire Contact Info?
Harlan posted: noap. because he is not a professional. he is drilled with pseudoscience. Dear Harlan: I don't know Hal personally, but it's my understanding that he's a former NASA Apollo engineer and a recognized authority on tektites. Although I myself don't subscribe to the lunar origin theory for tektites, as I believe Hal does, a number of other eminent researchers have at one time or another supported that theory (Harvey Nininger and Darryl Futrell for example). If you are aware of anyone who has more expertise with Georgiaites than Hal please let me know as we're looking for a consultant for a possible TV documentary about U.S. tektites. Thanks and regards, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org Before the ion microprobe, isotope analysis, and actual lunar samples for comparison, the lunar origin of tektites was tenable. Now it is not, and I wonder how someone who clings to a disproved hypothesis can be considered to be eminent in his field? Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Hal Povenmire Contact Info?
[meteorite-list] Hal Povenmire Contact Info? Michael L Blood mlblood at cox.net Sat May 12 15:28:44 EDT 2007 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Hal Povenmire Contact Info? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] on 5/12/07 11:24 AM, Mike Fowler at mqfowler at mac.com wrote: Before the ion microprobe, isotope analysis, and actual lunar samples for comparison, the lunar origin of tektites was tenable. Now it is not, and I wonder how someone who clings to a disproved hypothesis can be considered to be eminent in his field? Mike Fowler Chicago - Hi Mike, Not to be argumentative, but to add some perspective, 1) Disproved is relative. 2) If everyone in science lost all credibility whenever their perspective clashed with the majority of other scientists in their field not only would there be a huge loss in the number of scientists, but many of the greatest scientists in history would have gone unheard (and many have, no doubt). 3) Some might consider your above statement to be based in arrogance. Certainly it is founded in a narrow definition, if not outright misconception, of what is and what isn't scientifically acceptable. 4) Some of the greatest figures of science clear back to the Greeks held beliefs difficult to imagine. Freud, unquestionably the founder of psychology dramatically over emphasized sex, was himself a sexist believed psychoanalysis was an effective treatment. (as a result, many still do, in spite of results of comparative studies involving other forms of psychotherapy). None of which makes the other 95% of Freud's work one whit less monumental, any more than Plato believing in spontaneous generation undermines his significance. Best wishes, Michael Michael, Here's the best analogy I can think of. I'm sure you've heard of the New Jersey Iron object that crashed through a roof and was hastily declared a meteorite. If the scientists involved continued to insist it was a meteorite after an analysis showed that chemically it was man made and not chemically consistent with being a meteorite, what would you think? I for one, would begin to doubt whether he is a good scientist. It has nothing to do with arrogance, or scientific acceptability. It has to do with making a hypothesis, testing it, and if contradicted by the evidence, moving on. Sincerely, Mike Fowler __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Tornado snatches 1, 000 pound pallasite meteorite
It could be tough to find. If a dense rock like that was in a field and a tornado went directly over it, it probably would not have moved at all. However, it was suspended in a building of comparably much lighter material with a large surface area. Collectively, when the building was ripped apart, it could have been launched a considerable distance. Having virtually no aerodynamic properties It is most likely within a 1/2 mile radius of where it was originally housed. It may even be embedded in the soft earth. I agree with Charlie. I don't think it would be moved much, if any. I think a wind greater than the terminal velocity of the object in free fall would be needed to lift it, and that would be several hundred miles per hour. If it is truly missing, I would be willing to bet on theft. Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Eastern Oregon Meteorite on Ebay
Hi List, Did any of you see this meteorite on ebay? 23 oz sold for $1026 to peterutas. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200077988565 I bid, but not that much. Mike Fowler Chicago ebay--starsandrocks __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
Dear List, Michael Blood's position is well known, and I wouldn't even dream of trying to change his mind! However, I can't imagine why the rest of us wouldn't want to have every bit of available information when making buying or selling decisions. Do some of you believe that we aren't smart enough to digest auction prices on our own? Whether you think auction prices are relevant to price trends or not, is beside the point. We should all have equal opportunity to make up our own minds!! Anything less is censorship and very condescending to boot! Sincerely, Mike Fowler Chicago--ebay starsandrocks I agree with Michael Blood's position that the public posting of final auction prices is a bad idea. Auction prices are NOT an indication of true market values, either high or low. Jim Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 Michael Farmer Wrote: This is simple auction procedure. I will post my list first thing in the morning. I have the hammer prices for every last item. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Lang Auction hammer prices.
Mike Farmer, This so much really needed to be done. Thanks for stepping up to the plate, even though you may receive vocal criticism from some. I'm sure those that are appreciative will out number those who oppose by at least 10 to one, even if they aren't so vocal. Thanks Mike Fowler Mike Farmer wrote: I am going to make this as short as I can, I am still selling in my room in Tucson. I will list lot # Meteorite name and hammer sale price. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] a few other auction surprises
There is a business reason that runs to the advantage of the auctioneer to keep the prices secret. If consigners don't realize that items sell for a fraction of normal prices, then they will be more likely to consign items to the next auction. If they think they will get very little, they won't. For the protection of buyers and sellers, the prices should be posted. Eric Twelker If realized auction prices are abnormally low AND THEY ARE PUBLICIZED, then next year there will be fewer consigners, and MANY MORE BUYERS HOPING FOR A BARGAIN. As a result of the prices being publicized, a more normal result should be obtained the following year. I rest my case. Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Stolen NWA 869
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:47:53 -0500, you wrote: I doubt if this will ever turn up, but someone has taken a very nice, small NWA 869 from my collection - right from my own home! I never weighed it, but it is somewhere in the 40-50 gram range. Pics are here; Surely there is only a small number of people who could have done it (I doubt that you have dozens of people going through your house) and a limited time span, so that you could narrow it down? You might not regain the meteorite, but you don't need a friend like that. But with a pice that small and in your on home, are you sure that it just didn't get misplaced somewhere? Have a pet that could carry it off? Once many years ago my wife convinced me that one of my friends had taken a saw and never returned it. In my heart, I couldn't believe that of my friend, but as the saw couldn't be found, it was hard to argue against her, besides she was (and still is) my wife! After a couple of years the saw turned up in my house, don't remember where, and my friend was vindicated, although he was no longer in my circle of friends. The moral of the story is be very careful about blaming others for things that disappear in your home, you may have just misplaced it. Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NJO Votes - Update JAN 8
My vote is for a meteorwrong. It looks a lot like a piece of iron that was kicked out of a tubgrinder. These are large machines used to grind up wood debris, like after a hurricane, or for recycling purposes, or for volume reduction of demolition debris. If there is such a machine operating within 300 or 400 yards of the impact site, it could have been hammered around in the machine a while, leaving it somewhat rounded and dented, and then kicked out with enough velocity to go hundreds of feet in the air, and fall back with a velocity of 100 to 150 miles an hour, depending on the size of the machine etc. The horizontal travel would depend on the angle of ejection, and most importantly on the wind speed. Of course if this happened, it is unlikely that the owner of the machine will come forward and own up to it. Mike Fowler E-Z Tree Recycling Chicago also ebay--starsandrocks Did anyone notice the US Steel industrial park a stone's throw away from the impact location? Still taking votes, email off list if you wish an anonymous vote. VOTING WILL END FRIDAY! Jan 12! -- I've got to get on with my life. :0) -mt IMCA 2760 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Missing Tucson this year
... Funny that so many European collectors have said they plan to attend Tucson this year. I hope all have a blast regardless of the room and transportation prices. David Perhaps with the Euro so strong and the US Dollar so week, $250 doesn't look so expensive to the Europeans!! Mike Fowler __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fusion Crust on Irons
Hi Jason, Thanks for your thorough and I might say persuasive commentary on fusion crusted irons. I did note one possible discordant data. Campo del Cielo is an approximately 5000 year old fall and Nantan is 500 years old. Is the Nantan region so much worse (wetter?) that no fusion crust can be found? Also, how about the main mass of Taza? Does that have crust? If you want to share more pictures, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Fowler Chicago ebay--starsandrocks Hello All, Might be a little on the tail end of this thread, but I think it still merits posting... Although there may be exceptions where an iron lacks fusion crust do to a late atmospheric breakup or weathering, as might any stony meteorite, they do, in general, possess just such a skin after having fallen to the earth. However, many peoples' opinions of what exactly this crust consists of differs greatly with regard to irons. I've seen many a Canyon Diablo or Campo regarded as possessing fusion crust, when there is truly none of the remaining original surface left, and mm if not cm of material have corroded off of the surface since the fall. That being said, the same argument applies to stony meteorites. Are any Canyon Diablo's truly crusted? I can very safely assume that no, none of them was picked up after the fall and stored away in some humidity controlled pueblo, to be rediscovered some 50,000 years later. In just about every case, they've lost several mm if not a few cm (some large specimens have rusted clear though) off of every surface, so though they could, and should, be deemed complete individuals, they are in no way, shape, or form, crusted. Campo Del Cielo Firstly, what an amazing fall. Large beautiful irons in such an abundance as to flood the market in every sense of the term. That being said, many do have a tendency to rust. And many have corroded to the point of looking like rather abstract iron potatoes or larger lumps, possessing little semblance of their original flight-marked forms, all of these traces having been removed by weathering eons ago. However, on many of the 'new Campos' of several years ago, one can find patches of fusion crust with ripples and flow lines (and even a few impact pits). Could this really be deemed fusion crust? I think so. When cut, many of the irons show a heat rim that clearly display the fact that at least some of them have not lost much, if any of their original surface. These patches are oftentimes small, but we do have one in our collection that we purchased a number of years ago that is a spectacularly oriented specimen which is visually comparable to many Sikhote-Alins, with a full side of blue-black ripples and spatters. The back is glypted, and displays much crust as well. Here's an image of the leading edge of the specimen: http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/JUtas/meteorites/P1010040.jpg (It's concave - hence the lack of flowlines and rippled appearance.) And the trailing edge with it's fusion crusted glypts: http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/JUtas/meteorites/P1010043.jpg For another example of this, I believe Matteo could provide us with a picture or two of one of his newer Campos...he posted some a while back, and they showed a very fresh-looking iron. Onto Morasko... Well, firstly, who ever said that it fell ~5,000 years ago? Firstly, I can quote Buchwald as saying in his catalogue of iron meteorites, that Fusion crusts may be detected in numerous places. The assumption that it is a glacially transported meteorite is also completely false, seeing as there are craters nearby in which specimens have actually been found that have been dated to roughly the same age as the fall itself. For photos, I'd simply go to Marcin, as he's already put some up for the more suspicious parties. It's fusion crust in those pics, you can be sure. I've seen another ~70kg individual recently myself, and am certain that it has large areas of crust. Regarding Sikhote Alin, one must tread carefully. Many individuals being found today are cleaned using ball bearings (tumbling), which, although they give the irons a pretty shine, removes much of the fusion crust. In fact, if your Sikhote's have a shiny, rather than matte look to them, they may still have some crust, but you've lost at least the majority of its thickness. Here are a few pics to show the basic differences between the two. Tumbled, with assiciated sheen: http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/JUtas/meteorites/DSCN1077.jpg Cleaned using some other method: http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/JUtas/meteorites/DSCN1091.jpg There's a clear difference between the two; on one, the flowlines have nearly disappeared altogether whereas the other even possesses some of its original compression waves formed by varying degrees
[meteorite-list] Cosmic Dust in Terrestrial Ice ENDING
Sterling: But you should also realize that DHMO in its frozen state (which occurs during ice ages) has a high albedo and hence reflects most of the incoming solar energy, again cooling things off. Larry By the context DHMO must be referring to water, but I can't figure out the acronym. Could someone elaborate? Mike Fowler __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New Meteorites Discovered in Australia
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=113944 Any word on the type or classification? I noticed that all 6 non Antarctica Brachinites are from Australia, maybe it's another. Mike Fowler __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Adventura del Monte Meteorite
Mark and all, What is the story on this meteorite. Someone paid big bucks for it. Is it or is it not a meteorite. Steve Schoner AMS IMCA #4470 From Mike Fowler, proud owner of Aventura del Monte Chicago ebay--starsandrocks Hi Steve and List, Although it has not been officially confirmed as a meteorite, I have no doubts about it, nor has anyone else who has seen it or Mark's very good photo's. I've been meaning to post to the list about this, but have been so behind at work, that meteorite related things have had to wait. My apologies for not keeping all informed. Before I bid on Ebay, I did all the research that I possibly could, which included checking what other iron meteorites had been found in Zacatecas, Mexico, where this one was found. Mazapil, a witnessed fall from 1885 bore a striking resemblance to the Aventura del Monte in the manner of the regmaglypts, and especially the presence of many troilite nodules jumped to my attention. Of course I was fortunate to have a copy of Buchwald handy. See page 809 for a picture. This confirmed to me that the appearance was consistent with being a real meteorite, without having to be a misrepresented Sikhote-Alin. Mark Bostick's first hand report and photo's made this possible without me having to drive to Wichita before the auction, which would have been difficult for me to do. Although Mark's conclusions were somewhat guarded, he provided all the information one needed to come to their own conclusion. Although I had already come to my own conclusion, Steve Schoner's post to the list gave me further confidence. After, I won the auction on Easter Sunday. I decided to drive to Wichita, Kansas to pick up the meteorite, and since I was dealing with an ebay newbie, I arranged to transfer the money after I had inspected the meteorite. I left Monday and came back very tired, but happy on Tuesday night about midnight. About 11 hours driving, each way, on interstate highway mostly at 80 miles per hour. I have a Volkswagen Jetta turbo diesel that gets more than 40 mpg, even at 80 mph, so the fuel expense of the trip was only $103.00. Much less than flying, or even just shipping the meteorite ground. I spent the night at Mark Bostick's house where he offered me the couch. We talked meteorites over a couple of beers. Tuesday morning we went to meet the seller, and pick up the meteorite. Juan Montoya and his wife are very friendly and open people. They invited us into their house, offered us a beer, and we talked quite a while, all the time in the company of the most amazing iron meteorite. Juan is a machinist, off work because of an accident. He was selling the meteorite only reluctantly because of the need to make up for lost income. He told me how he saw it for sale in a shop in his home town, Monte Escobedo, Zacatecas, and how he bought it from the owner after some fierce bargaining. He says, that even to this day he never told his wife how much he paid for it, as it was not sold cheap! (My wife doesn't know what I paid either, although I tried to comfort her with the assurance that it is potentially worth quite a bit more than I paid.) Juan's wife even found a photo of the meteorite at the shop before he bought it. She took a picture of her sister standing in front of the shop and the meteorite was on a little cart by her feet. When she took the photo, she had no idea her husband was going to buy it. Juan said a local farmer kept striking it with his plow, and he finally dug it up to get it out of the way. The son of the farmer eventually sold it to the shop keeper. For those interested, I will email you 2 photos, one of the seller and his family, one of me. If you missed them, when Mark Bostick offered them to the list, I can also email the high resolution photo's he took of the meteorite. I have talked to Paul Sipera of the Planetary Studies Foundation about getting it classified. He, of course, said I should send a sample to John Wasson. First, I have to decide where to cut it and how much. I want to preserve it intact, but I may take off a few small slices if I can figure out how to do it without detracting from its value or appearance. I am also consulting with Marlin Cilz about cutting it. This one is truly a MUSEUM QUALITY SPECIMEN! Even my son and wife are impressed. Mike Fowler PS I made several major meteorite purchases earlier this year, and told my self that I had spent my budget already, and wasn't going to waste any more time cruising ebay for meteorites. I hate to think what I would have missed if I had kept my promise and didn't search ebay for meteorites that week! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Insuring your (Million Dollar) meteorite collection
I know of a collector who was paying a annual premium that was 1% of the decared collection value. The collectors collection is valued $1,000,000 + . So the insuring costs can get pretty high. You can get some decent vaults for $10K Bob I was wondering how many private collections are there in the million dollar range? Any one care to make an educated guess? Please don't mention any names. Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] eBay: Bad luck meteorite
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:112item=230004456922id=The "Bad Luck Meteorite" sold on ebay for $2,500.00!I'm wondering if any list member checked it out?Any one in the know, please tell us what you know.Thanks,Mike FowlerChicagoPS I started to do a little checking myself, but got no farther than not being able to locate any such place as Divemon, IL.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade
Dear Michael Blood, I couldn't disagree with you more on this issue. When transactions take place between members of the meteorite community there is a high degree of mutual trust involved. I trust the people I'm dealing with because I'm sure that the vast majority of them are intrinsically honest persons. I also trust members of the meteorite community I've NEVER DEALT WITH BEFORE, because the meteorite community is very small and I know that a dishonest person would not last long, because in a small community, bad news travels fast. I think McCartney Taylor did the right thing to bring this to a public forum because: 1) It gives all of us a heads up about a possible rotten apple in our midst. 2) It gives the other party a chance to state his case and correct the facts, or pay up as the case may be. I think this is much better than a bunch of private emails where the accused has no chance to respond, or even know he is being besmirched. My future trust in members of the meteorite community would be considerably reduced if I thought that cooks would not be exposed publicly. Sincerely, Mike Fowler Comment to all: I was very sad to see the original post regarding this private issue. As is almost always the case, it would also appear there is more than one side to the story, as Bob indicates below. This is an example of why private issues should not be brought up on the list and why people should be very hesitant about taking sides when they are. If the accusations have merit, they should have gone directly to the board of the IMCA, and I encourage both parties to pursue that action now. While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case, it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list, other than board members of the IMCA, if this issue is presented to them. I have had multiple interactions with both parties involved and found each of them to be, in every instance, honest, open and above board. Whatever there differences are - they are between the two of them and I hope they are able to resolve them. In any event, I hope we are not exposed to the issue further on this list. If it does go before the board of the IMCA, then, perhaps there will be action taken of which we will be made aware. As I said, however, even then, I would hope rather for an amicable resolution being reached leaving all parties satisfied, but in any event, off the list. Best wishes, Michael __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] FW: Lunar and Martian meteorites
anyone familiar with the Meteorite Market (http://www.alaska.net/~meteor/mmhome.htm )? Are they reputable, trustworthy, etc.? I'd like to acquire Lunar and Martian meteorites and they have some for sale. Your thoughts? Are there other sources? Anita Westlake Hi Anita, Eric Twelker and Meteorite Market is well known for fair pricing, and is very reputable. I've bought many pieces from him, most recently a part slice of the Milton Pallasite! No one else even has it! Last year Eric had some large size pieces of Tagish Lake with crust on them. They were pieces to die for. Unfortunately, my funds were low at the time, and I let that one get away. Mike Fowler Chicago ebay--starsandrocks __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dear friends, I am back.
Welcome back Armando Afonso. The purpose of this list is to exchange useful information about meteorites, not insults! I'm sure if you keep that in mind, you won't need a helmet! Mike Fowler Chicago For unclarified reasons, my posting to this list is allowed again, and without the need of another email adress for each new message! Thanks!!! I promise to behave properly, now. I will absorb each insult and publicity of the predators, without making waves. I have my helmet, too. Fire. AA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Kerala Red Rain Was From A Comet, Study Suggests
http://www.chennaionline.com/colnews/newsitem.asp?NEWSID=% 7BEC0520F4-92DC-452E-AB55-AD89E642DF32%7DCATEGORYNAME=National While I find the idea of extra-terrestrial life, even cellular extra- terrestrial life a fascinating subject, these red rain studies have made such giant claims on the basis of such flimsy evidence! How about a simple Oxygen isotope analysis to determine if it is extra- terrestrial? If these cells were biotic couldn't they be tested for amino acids? And if so which ones, and what chirality?I think I read a previous study that indicated that the material was strangely lacking in nitrogen. If so how can these cells be biotic, let alone extra- terristrial? Sincerely, Mike Fowler Kerala red rain was comet disintegration Ceannai Online May 31, 2006 Kottayam, May 31: The red rains in Kerala five years ago was the result of the atmospheric disintegration of a comet, according to a study. The study conducted at the School of Pure and Applied Physics of the MG University here by Dr Godfrey Louis and his student a Santosh Kumar shows that red rain cells were devoid of DNA which suggests their extra-terrestrial origin. The findings published in the international journal 'Astrophysics and Space Science' state that the cometery fragment contained dense collection of red cells. Commenting on the study at a press conference here, Dr N Chandra Wikramesinghe, Director of Cardiff Centre for Astrobiology, UK, said what makes this study most important is the similarity of the red particles with living cells. If the red rain cells are finally proved to be of extra-terrestrial origin then that would be one of the most important discoveries in human history. It will change our concept about the universe and life, he added. The red coloured rains were reported in different parts of Kerala from July to September 2001. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: new ebay auctions
Hi Karl, I've bought some high quality meteorites from you in the past, and was very satisfied. If you have a currently active web site, I've not been able to access it. The link on your ebay page doesn't work. If you have a web site, let us know. Thanks, Mike Fowler Chicago Hi everyone! After a long break I have put some new meteorites up for auction on ebay. Take a look if you like to! http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewUserPageuserid=meteoriten just follow the link. Thank you Regards Moritz Karl __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] 340 Lb Campo
I've always wanted to own a big meteorite, one that would give me bragging rights to the biggest one around, one that could serve as a door stop in a pinch, and one that would not walk away in the pockets of any of my sons friends. I think I found one that fits the bill! Mike Fowler Chicago http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItemitem=6622214976rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AVRIrd=1 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: Meteorite sales doing just fine Meteorite Supply
Bull # Ant. Other Tot. -- - MB 80: 42 136 178 MB 81: 20 161 181 MB 82: 521 453 974 MB 83: 473 425 898 MB 84: 842 498 1340 (NWA series begins: NWA 001-032) MB 85: 658 718 1376 MB 86: 661 493 1154 MB 87: 1048 850 1898 MB 88: 753 857 1610 MB 89: 1010 758 1768 3-year moving averages for total new meteorites (smoothes out volatile Antarctic component): 1997: 444.3 1998: 684.3 1999: 1070.7 2000: 1204.7 2001: 1290.0 2002: 1476.0 2003: 1554.0 2004: 1758.7 Will MB 90 (2006) be the first year that shows a decline in the 3-year moving average? Depends a lot on the Antarctic totals in the upcoming Bulletin. --Rob Hi Rob, Thanks for the research. I would propose that only non Antarctic meteorites count as supply, since Antarctic meteorites are not available. In that case, the number per the Met Bul may have peaked 3 years ago! Mike Fowler Chicago I get the feeling that if you took a poll of the list members here, most would argue that the meteorite market has been at best flat the last five years (and I would opine that it is actually down rather than flat). The combination of exquisite specimens, high-profile advertising, and Bonhams' well-healed bidders predictably leads to slightly inflated prices. Such an auction is not a reliable indicator of general public meteorite commerce. Compare meteorite prices with those of precious metals, oil, or even the SP 500 over the last five years. Space rocks were hardly a good investment. New collectors waiting until today to acquire their first meteorite have a lot more buying power -- and a greater variety of specimens from which to choose -- than they would have in 2001. The only thing that will drive meteorite prices up at this point is greater demand. We don't have a meteorite-equivalent of De Beers stock-piling meteorites and reducing the supply. Supply increases every year; in fact the *rate* of supply increase has itself been increasing over the last decade: __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moving to North Carolina--NWA 1929
Hi Eric List, Good luck on your move to North Carolina. I know that packing and moving can be a painful experience! Looking over your site to see what good deals are to be had before you move, I noticed that NWA 1929 sales are on hold pending possible reclassification. Could you or any other list member comment on what's up with that? Thanks, Mike Fowler Chicago I will be packing up all my meteorites for the move to North Carolina on 10 April. If there is anything on my web site you are interested in let me know before it all gets boxed up. -- Eric Olson ELKK Meteorites http://www.star-bits.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Earth Rocks Could Have Taken Life to Titan (doubts)
He says only boulders at least 3 metres across could punch out through the Earth's atmosphere and escape the planet's gravity, and that only extremely powerful impacts could achieve this. The cause of such impacts would be comets or asteroids between 10 and 50 kilometres wide, Gladman told New Scientist: The kind of thing that killed the dinosaurs. I have my doubts. (again) Someone please correct me if I err in my numbers or logic. A rock being ejected into space is somewhat like a meteorite falling to Earth, but in reverse. To be ejected into space the rock must leave Earth's atmosphere with escape velocity. That means, it must have been accelerated to a velocity GREATER than escape velocity to account for the velocity lost punching thru Earths atmosphere. Question #1 Can an impact accelerate rocks greater than 3 meters in diameter to 15 kilometers per second,or more, without shock melting them, or pulverizing them? Meteorites entering the Earth's atmosphere push ahead of them a column of air until the pressure on the meteorite exceeds the crushing strength of the meteorite, at which point it explodes and the surviving pieces fall under the influence of gravity. Question #2 If a whole rock, 3 meters or more in diameter, could be accelerated to 15 kps intact, wouldn't the back pressure of the atmosphere exceed the strength of the rock resulting in fragmentation into pieces, just as happens to virtually all stony meteorites passing thru the Earth's atmosphere with similar velocity? Such pieces will not coast into space, on the contrary they will be retarded by the remaining atmosphere, and quickly loose escape velocity. I would never say something is impossible. But I have my doubts about hundreds of millions of Earth Boulders being ejected thru the atmosphere unless you can overcome the above 2 objections. Any comments Sterling or others? Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Did Earth Seed Life Elsewhere in the Solar System?
If, in the Gladman simulation, 30 Earth rocks get to Titan in 5 million simulated years, that's 6 Earth rocks per million years. Over the life of the solar system, that's 27,000 microbe bearing Earth rocks for the Titan environment. Makes it sound like a favored holiday destination of Earthly microbes... Not so many years ago scientists told us that it was impossible for meteorites to deliver rocks from Mars to Earth, because they would be shock melted by the forces necessary to give them escape velocity. Now they seem to be falling over themselves with calculations that show Earth rocks pelting other bodies like crazy! I think it shows a little bit of wishful thinking, and also how fads can influence scientific research. Personally, I think they are vastly underestimating the difficulty of blasting coherent rocks thru Earth's atmosphere. More likely, when the forces are great enough to do it tektites are the result! In other words rocks are vaporized. A low angle impact has been cited as the easiest way to eject rocks from Mars, but this won't work on earth because of the atmosphere. Could a rock be entrained in the blast column so it could be ejected thru the vacuum column left by the asteroid's decent without being vaporized? Probably not, as the ones in the center of the blast would be vaporized, and ones at the edge of the column would be held back by contact with the earth's atmosphere. Is any of this testable? If rocks can be ejected from Earth, then there must be millions, to billions accumulated on the Moon's airless surface. Wouldn't some of them be incorporated in the Lunar regolith and then returned to Earth with the Apollo samples or meteorites we have found? If the sample size to date is too small, then we will have to wait for a permanent moon base. Sincerely, Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Looking for CH Chondrite Slice
Hi List, I'm looking to add a CH chondrite to my collection. a thin slice in the range of 5 to 20 grams would be nice, depending on the price etc. Candidate meteorites include Acfer 214, NWA 739 and SAU 290. The last is probably the most available. please contact me off list. Thanks, Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Hello list
Please guys, no more piling on. enough is enough. Mike Fowler also from chicago Just in case we missed it??? U getting a commission? Gary On 11 Mar 2006 at 5:17, joseph_town at att.net wrote: Hello list.It is a sad day for me.I have decided to leave meteorites.I am putting up most of my collection forsale.I will keep a few speciemns,but by large,most will be up forsale.I will put up on my website what I will be selling.Lets just say,I value you my marriage more than I do meteorites.Let me know what you want and I will get back to you.Again it has been a fun ride.I have met alot of great people,but it is better to leave this hobby with my head held up high.And I am sorry to have offened anyone. . . . . . . . Snip Hello list.I am opening up the half off anything on my website for half off just thru sunday on anything there is.But like everything else,trades are always welcome.Just stones please.Let me know what you have.I did add a few more things.Remember just thru sunday. steve arnold,chicago _ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] Poll : Online Encyclopedia of Meteorites
In February David Weir wrote about the MetBase Library and how his collection is included in it. I was wondering how many private collections are included in MetBase and how big it has to be, to be included? What are the criteria for being included, and how do you get a collection included? I would like mine to be there someday. I don't think I'm ready yet, but give me a year or two! Mike Fowler Chicago David Weir wrote on Feb. 24, 2006: .. the subscription-based MetBase Library continuously edited by Jörn Koblitz (over 30,000 entries I believe), which is widely utilized around the world, MetBase is a truly remarkable project, and I'm priviledged to have my modest collection entered into its extensive database. I do not subscribe to MetBase, but I have seen its scope, and I think others on this List might be interested; (contact: info at metbase.de). Regards, David Hi all, Just wanted to include the website for MetBase, which explains its scope - really awesome. http://www.metbase.de/ David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Collections in MetBase
Alex, Thanks for taking the time to post re my question. I realize that I could have emailed Joern Koblitz myself for the answer, but I figured there would be many besides myself who would probably be curious to know the answer. Mike In February David Weir wrote about the MetBase Library and how his collection is included in it. I was wondering how many private collections are included in MetBase and how big it has to be, to be included? The person to answer this with more competence than me is the author of MetBase himself, Joern Koblitz (koblitz at microfab.de). He probably is a member of this list and will let you know all the facts in more detail than I can do here. But for the sake of a quick late night (local time) answer from Europe: there is no lower limit for a private collection to be included, in fact there are many collections with only 1 meteorite in them :-). Then again, in my last version of the program I count 236 entries with 10 or more meteorites in the collection, and a new version seems to be at the doorstep. Joern will add to this, when he reads it. As I said in one of my earlier mails, these private collection data represent nothing but a snapshot in space and time, which is obvious since we live in an ever changing world - and collector X´s collection data provided for publication in say 2002 will most probably have changed by now. But nonetheless you will at least have sort of a good overview here, and postal addresses of the collectors are included, which is a value by itself. What are the criteria for being included, and how do you get a collection included? Just contact Joern at koblitz at microfab.de, and (afaik) sending your collection summary (meteorite names and weights) will be all that is needed to get an entry with the next update. Alex Berlin/Germany __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Possible meteorite fall in Northeast Brazil
Below a somewhat polished up version of the Babelfish translation of the Portuguese account below. Mike Fowler Chicago Meteorite fall generates fire ball in the sky of the Bahia, Brazil A meteorite that fell in the city of Saint Antonio de Jesus, in Bahia, (a state in the North East of Brazil) yesterday night, opened a crater in forest and scared the inhabitants of the region. The fall generated a fire ball in the sky and many inhabitants had thought that it was about the fall of an airplane. The police received numerous phone calls yesterday night, informing them of an accident. When they had arrived at the scene, the policemen only sighted a crater and burnt and knocked down twigs of trees. Technicians of the Antares Observatory, of the city of Feira de Santana, went to the scene to get samples of the material for analysis. http://noticias.terra.com.br/brasil/interna/0,,OI908174-EI306,00.html Queda de meteorito gera bola de fogo no céu da BA Um meteorito que caiu na cidade de Santo Antônio de Jesus, na Bahia, na noite de ontem, abriu uma cratera no meio da mata e assustou os moradores da região. A queda gerou uma bola de fogo no céu e muitos moradores pensaram que se tratava da queda de um avião. A polícia recebeu diversos telefonemas na noite de ontem, avisando sobre um acidente. Quando chegaram ao local, os policiais avistaram somente uma cratera e galhos de árvores queimados e derrubados. Técnicos do Observatório Antares, do município de Feira de Santana, estão no local para procurar amostras do material para análise. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Michael Blood's Meteorite Market Trends
Hi Michael, Thanks for your thorough response to my post. The absence of response up till now had led me to believe that I was the only one on the list who didn't go to Tuscon, and that everyone else was already in the know!! Mike Fowler Hi Mike and all, Mostly good questions, so, I will attempt to respond to them one at a time: on 3/5/06 8:02 PM, Michael Fowler at mqfowler at mac.com wrote: --Since The Tucson Gem Mineral Show is the most --significant single event yearly influencing the meteorite --market, as usual, I will devote the March article to --reporting on same. I was very disappointed that Michael Bloods always entertaining, and usually informative column gave a report of the Tuscon show without a single word, not even a hint as, to the trend of the meteorite market. Sorry... Was the show well attended? More or less than past years? Yes, while it is impossible to tell, really, how many attended, the BDBash appeared to have more people than ever. The auction definitely had more people attending than ever, as was reported in my column. In addition, for the first time, over 100 bid cards were assigned - I believe last year was higher than the previous year and last year was like 71. So, about a 43% increase over last year. I believe part, though not likely all, of this increase was due to the students and other interested parties attending the lectures put on by the U of A SWMC. Were the auctions well bid? More or less than past years? This is always a mixed aspect... though I believe overall bidding went higher on the higher priced items than has been the case up 'till now. On the other hand, some small lunars with very low TKW were purchased at very thrifty prices, while the historic falls tended to be inconsistent - with some going high and some going low. Were certain meteorite types hot this year? If so which ones? The hottest types I noticed were the oriented S-A specimens Mike Farmer, Jim Strope and Eric Olsen were selling. There were a couple that were KILLER, and not cheap - but, as I said, killer stinking pieces! Some of those were snatched right up. ET had some very low priced unidentified NWA as did Hans, who usually only carries New Campos - which, by the way, this year were almost all very small (relatively speaking). Were some meteorite types over supplied this year with little demand? If so which ones? Hans did not seam to come close to selling out all those little New Campos, but that is just one dealer. UNDER represented seamed to me to be Fukang and Symchin. Has the meteorite market general began to recover from it's depressed state of the last several years? Always a good question, but with meteorites there are SO many variables that I believe this question can only be answered a few years after the fact. I noticed the price of S-A speicmens is definitely increasing while the quality seams to be decreasing (lack of totally fresh - some rusting, etc). While there was a brief - bottom fell out - pricing of D'Orbigney, that seams to be past and everything available is back at $5K/g. Anne Black had a great stock of macromounts that seamed unusually low and tempted me, as a dealer, to purchase many for resale. The price of Brenham is WAY up - partly because of the spectacular 1400 LB oriented individual Steve and Phil recovered and partly because much of the smaller specimens all appear to be from a dry matrix and hope is high they will yield stable specimens when cut - as most of you know, most Brenham available to collectors up to now came from a matrix which resulted in specimens that would eventually be oozing Lawrencite puss, so, this development could be the beginning of a Brenham renaissance. Shouldn't some or all of these developments be discernible by an astute observer at the USA's largest gathering of Meteorite People? Yes Is there any reason why this information should be kept from the rest of us? There is a deeply concealed plot, but if I tell you what it is, I will have to kill you Is any one else as disappointed as I am? Ya, I got you beat by a mile... my wife broke bones in both her feet and my best surviving friend died. Best wishes, Michael Mike Fowler Chicago ebay-starsandrocks __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Largest Crater in the Sahara Desert and LDG
This is actually a more general point: there are lots and lots of impact craters but very few tektite producing ones; why? Sterling K. Webb Why not very high velocity comet impacts, at a near vertical angle. Maximum cometary velocities would be about 10 times more than average asteroidal impacts. Near vertical would reduce the atmospheric column that the explosion has to punch thru to the minimum. Looked at from this point of view, perhaps only 1 in 100 crater producing impacts would qualify, which might explain why there are many large craters, but few tektite strewn fields. Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Largest Crater in the Sahara Desert and LDG
Hi List, My two cents worth: Tektites are blasted into space and then return. Horizontal flow, blast , ejection or whatever, would not a tektite make, at least in the classical sense. Mike Fowler Where is the dividing line between impactite and tektite? I'd like to hear what others may understand, but my impression is that it fundamentally hinges on distance the glassy material is ejected from the crater. Material found only in and immediately around the source crater is impactite. Stuff blasted tens to hundreds of km or more crosses the definitional boundary into tektites. If this is the criterion, LDG was already home free in my book insofar as the known strewn field has a long axis of at least 150 km, so even if there was a now-erosionally removed crater at one end of the strewn field proper, some of the glass would've already required over 100 km ejection distance. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Name game
As an owner of Chinga, I've often wondered if there is a tu or two madre out there so I can put them next to each other on my mantle. Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mbosi Iron
Hi List, The Mbosi Iron is listed at 16 tons. Is there any available to the collector. If so I would like to acquire some. Mike Fowler Chicago ebay-starsandrocks __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] If I can choose.....!
Hi List, Although I would settle for a Mercurian Meteorite, I don't think it would be an Angrite. My top choice would be a Kaidunite!Kaidun, a possible piece of Phobos. Top that for rarity if you can! Mike Fowler Chicago ebay-starsandrocks can't choose between an Lunite or a pallasite. I'd also be hard pressed to decide whether to keep the whole thing for myself, or sell it off to pay for the roof repairs! You can get a lot of shingles for one 'hammer'. My husband has voted; he says 'any'. He further says that he doesn't care if the house gets blown to smithereens, having it struck by a meteorite is kewl (as long as no one gets seriously hurt.) We can rebuild. Tracy Latimer If I can choose Would you please make mine an aubrite? They are so pretty, so delicate-looking, hard to believe they can survive the impact. And there is only 16 of them! Anyone else? Anne M. Black __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fukang Pallasite Chinga Ungrouped?
Hi List, I have a Chinga Iron in my collection listed as IVB Anomalous. According to this abstract, Chinga is Ungrouped. Is this the latest consensus? If so I will need a different meteorite to represent the IVB group in my collection. Lunar and Planetary Science XXXVII (2006) sess454.pdf Honesto J. * McDonough W. F.Walker R. J.Corrigan C. M. McCoy T. J.Chabot N. L.Ash R. D. 187 Re-187Os Isotopic and Highly Siderophile Element Systematics of Group IVB Irons, and Ungrouped Irons Chinga, Tishomingo and Willow Grove [#1374] IVB irons and the ungrouped irons Chinga, Tishomingo and Willow Grove were analyzed for HSE abundances and 187Re-187Os systematics. Chinga and Willow Grove cannot be related to the IVBs by igneous fractionation. Tishomingo is more ambiguous. Regarding the Fukang Pallasite, Arizona Skies states on their web site that Fukang is Ungrouped. This is news to me. I searched the internet and could find no info. Can any one confirm the official classification of this pallasite? Of course, if it is ungrouped, I'll have to add it to my collection as well! Mike Fowler Chicago 55 unique planetary bodies represented in my collection and counting! PS Of course, I went to David Weir's Meteorite Studies site first to get his take on these two irons, but neither one is listed yet! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fukang Pallasite Chinga Ungrouped?
Wow that was a fast response! Thanks for the tip Christian. I've been using the London Natural History Museum on line catalog database, http://internt.nhm.ac.uk/jdsml/research-curation/projects/ metcat/ but that is not very up to date. It still lists as ungrouped the irons that make up the new IIG group, La Primitiva, Twannberg, Tombigbee and Bellsbank! Mike Fowler Chicago Hi Mike, look at http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php click what's new and you will see the new entry in the metbull #90. Fukang is a main group pallasite. Cheers, Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Wanted - Milton Meteorite
I too want to add Milton to my collection. Please let me know what is available. I'll try to harden myself in advance of hearing the price per gram! Thanks, Mike Fowler Chicago ebay-starsandrocks Hello List, I'm looking for a slice of the Milton Meteorite of Missouri, U.S.A Please e-mail off list with offers at midwestmeteor at earthlink.net Best regards, Tim Heitz __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA 725 Winonaite vs Acapulcoite
Hi Stan list, I was wondering if changing the classification of NWA 725 from Acapulcoite makes it worth more or less per gram? NWA 725 is likely to actually be a winonaite. I had Open University do O isotope on some paired material and it plots right on top of nwa 1463 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] 2003 UB313 Reignites a Planet-Sized Debate
Hi Listees I love to read Sterling K. Webb's posts because they are so informative in an often unconventional way. I love to read Martin Altmann's because they make me smile! Buckleboo to all! Mike Fowler Chicago Can you imagine, what could happened if CIA is monitoring your mail? Soon your president would announce a plan for a mission to Ceres for for for mining Cereals Before the Chinese will do so. ...I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on Ceres and returning him safely to the Earth. No single space project in this period will be more impressive to mankind, or more important in the long-range exploration of space; and none will be so difficult or expensive to accomplish. We choose to go to Ceres in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are CRISPY! Buckleboo the axis of knevil. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Dronino Steve Schoner's meteorite anti-rust treatment.
(Don't know if this made it thru the other day) Hi List, Went to my local hardware store to buy Red Devil Lye, but couldn't find any so I bought some (where else!) on ebay. I will be trying it out on some smaller irons that show some rust, including at least one Dronino. I was curious about Steve Schoner's 150 lb Campo mentioned in the post from November, 2003. Was the treatment successful, and what are the details? How long etc? I have one 13 lb Campo that could use a little help after I practice an a couple 100 gram slices first. Mike Fowler Chicago Bob King's post regarding Dronino: Hello Bernd, Marcin and all, I, too have had problems with Dronino until I used Steve Schoner's NaOH method. I left my slice in solution in a jar for two weeks. Every so often I'd pick up the jar and swirl the contents around to keep the chemicals mixed and monitor the process . The solution gradually became as dark as maple syrup as rust was dissolved. Then I removed the slice, washed it in distilled water (the lye makes the pieces very slippery.) and baked it in the oven for an hour at around 200 degrees. I still keep my Dronino with dessicant but I have not seen a speck of rust since this treatment. Marcin, you asked about dissolving the lye. I fill the jar halfway with regular isopropyl alcohol (off-the-shelf drugstore variety) which contains water. Then I add about 5 tablespoons of lye (Red Devil brand here in the U.S.) and stir and stir. It takes a while for the lye to dissolve in the alcohol. While this is happening you get an interesting exothermic chemical reaction and the jar warms up. Anyway, this is the only thing that's worked for really stubborn irons. Best to all, Bob Post from Steve Schoner, November 2003 s.gif By popular request, and a huge amount of e-mails regarding it, I post it now and for as long as the internet exists at: http://www.geocities.com/american_meteorite_survey/naoh.htm You can post it anywhere, share it, distribute it widely, and do so with the intent of preserving stubborn rusting meteorites that would otherwise snap crackle and pop as they flake away on the shelves, keeping one awake at night in the never ending cycle of terrestrialization. This anti-rusting process will help slow that down so that we can enjoy our specimens a bit longer. Currently I am soaking a 150 lb Campo and it has been in solution for 7 months. Soon I will take it out and see where it is in the process. It is the largest meteorite I have ever done in this process. Some meteorites might not respond, but most do. Steve Schoner http://www.geocities.com/american_meteorite_survey __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Seymchan on ebay that looks like Brahim
Hi List, wwwsikhote has a slice listed on Ebay as Seymchan, but to my eye looks like Brahin. Would like opinions from list members. Thanks, Mike Fowler ebay-starsandrocks http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-Seymchan-newest-PALLASITE- NR_W0QQitemZ6599040654QQcategoryZ3239QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Main Mass of 1925 on Ebay--Gabbroic Cumulate Eucrite
Dave Schultz (indy 1996) is selling the main mass of NWA 1925 on ebay! I don't think many people realize how rare, or beautiful this piece is. There are hundreds of eucrites known, but only one gabbroic one has ever been found, and this one has a TKW of only 86 grams! Originally marketed by Mike Farmer, which according to his web site, it is now sold out. I own a 9.82 gram slice, which would be the 2nd largest, and it is a beauty and a rarity! Good luck to Dave and his auction. Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
