Re: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites
Really? I don't know a lot about tektites so I just assumed the guy would have done his research. What kind of emperical evidence do you have that refutes it? Interested in learning more, Graham ~ Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter msn messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Charles O'Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites I had replied to the author of that piece of pseudoscience refuting all of his points. He answered once with more pseudoscience. I refuted his reply and have not heard from him since. The article was full of it could have happened this way without the empirical evidence to back it up. I had complained to the editors of the RASC journal regarding the lack of screening of their articles. Got lip service from them. I was shocked that a reputable journal from the RASC would publish an article that could be refuted so easily with empirical evidence. It showed a complete lack of scientific research on articles received. I can forward the word file of my correspondence to anyone who is interested. Cheers Charles O'Dale Meeting Chair Ottawa RASC http://www.ottawa.rasc.ca/astronomy/earth_craters/index.html Message: 8 Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 04:00:33 -0700 From: Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I read an article in the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada journal that said that the Earth once had a ring of tektites or a system of rings around it and when the supercontinent pangea formed, the earth's gravitational field became lop-sided and the tektite material in the ring ended up in an orbital resonance with pangea and the tektites formed a clump or ring arc that was directly over pangea at perigee. When pangea broke up, the resonance dissapeared and the ring arc's orbit began to decay The shape and distribution of the australasian tektite strewnfield and the ablasion characteristics of the tektites is consistent with a ring arc's orbit decaying and eventually bringing the material crashing to earth at a low angle. Furthermore, the tektites associated with the chesapeake bay crater may infact have been dragged down by the impactor's gravitational field as it passed through or near the rings and this may be the case with other tektite fields as well. I have the article here on paper but I can't find it on the internet. I'm not sure if this has been posted before but if anyone's interested I could type up the text and E-mail it to the list. ~ Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter msn messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites
I had replied to the author of that piece of pseudoscience refuting all of his points. He answered once with more pseudoscience. I refuted his reply and have not heard from him since. The article was full of it could have happened this way without the empirical evidence to back it up. I had complained to the editors of the RASC journal regarding the lack of screening of their articles. Got lip service from them. I was shocked that a reputable journal from the RASC would publish an article that could be refuted so easily with empirical evidence. It showed a complete lack of scientific research on articles received. I can forward the word file of my correspondence to anyone who is interested. Cheers Charles O'Dale Meeting Chair Ottawa RASC http://www.ottawa.rasc.ca/astronomy/earth_craters/index.html Message: 8 Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 04:00:33 -0700 From: Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I read an article in the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada journal that said that the Earth once had a ring of tektites or a system of rings around it and when the supercontinent pangea formed, the earth's gravitational field became lop-sided and the tektite material in the ring ended up in an orbital resonance with pangea and the tektites formed a clump or ring arc that was directly over pangea at perigee. When pangea broke up, the resonance dissapeared and the ring arc's orbit began to decay The shape and distribution of the australasian tektite strewnfield and the ablasion characteristics of the tektites is consistent with a ring arc's orbit decaying and eventually bringing the material crashing to earth at a low angle. Furthermore, the tektites associated with the chesapeake bay crater may infact have been dragged down by the impactor's gravitational field as it passed through or near the rings and this may be the case with other tektite fields as well. I have the article here on paper but I can't find it on the internet. I'm not sure if this has been posted before but if anyone's interested I could type up the text and E-mail it to the list. ~ Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter msn messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites
Wow...I never heard about that 1913 event. I wonder if there could be more stuff floating around up there. Would something the size of a tektite be detectable by ground based radar? I typed up the article and have tried sending it to the list 9 times now and it hasn't gone through. The article is from the summer of 2004. Graham ~ Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter msn messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites Hi, Graham, List. The notion derives from the curious history of the Chant Trace. On February 9, 1913, there were a huge rash of fireball reports stretching from far Western Canada (Regina) across to upper New York state and New York City itself. The numbers of reports were in the hundreds or thousands, and they were of trains of multiple fireballs that passed overhead, followed by more trains of multiple fireballs, followed by more trains of multiple fireballs, a show lasting 10-15 minutes at a time. This is highly unusual, to put it mildly. A Canadian astronomer named Chant investigated it at length and was able to plot a great circle path for these events and to determine that the reports were chronologically compatible, that is, in correct sequence. He concluded that there actually had been a train of hundreds of fireballs chasing themselves across North America. He even found reports from ships at sea, as far away as the South Atlantic off Brazil, that matched up. He published his results in the Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada in 1913, but he never explained what would cause such a remarkable event. It is now referred to as the Chant Trace. In the 1950's, John O'Keefe jumped on the obvious conclusion (which hopefully the sharp ones among us have already guessed) that the only way to account for this was the decay of an object from low earth orbit! He conducted a search of 8,000 local newspapers across the US and Canada for reports of such fireball trains and plotted the results on the map. He discovered that there TWO stripes of fireball trains, parallel to each other but with the second one displaced to the south. Whatever the decaying object was, it survived through TWO passes of the Earth's atmosphere. This argues a substantial object, big, massing millions of pounds, caught in an gravitationally bound geocentric orbit! Now, it may have been a fresh capture, an object that approaches the Earth at low encounter velocities, glazes the atmosphere, is captured, and immediately decays and breaks up, in which the Earth has a second moon for a couple of hours. OR, it could be the final moments of a second moon that has been in place, undetected, for thousands or millions of years. An object of a few hundred meters diameter would never have been detected directly by XIXth century astronomy. But there are all those anomalous transit events from XIXth century astronomers, you know, often touted as proof of the discovery of a new planet, intra-Mercurian. There is a famous case of such a detection during a solar eclipse which didn't pan out, and so forth. Check discoveries of Vulcan. (No, not that Vulcan, Trekites!) O'Keefe coined the term Cyrillids for such objects, but it never caught on. He proposed that the decay of short term natural satellites of a silicate composition was the source of tektites, that the Earth had had four such moons in the last 35 million years, each one creating a tektite strewn field in its final decay, a perfectly good dynamic conclusion, but, you know, folks didn't take to the notion of a lot of extra moons! The idea was revived in the past 20 years by somebody whose name I can't remember, who threw in the notion of rings, also dynamically possible. That's probably the article you saw. I recall a popular article from the mid-80's that was illustrated with an artist's rendering of a tropical island night scene looking out over the ocean with the Earth's Rings arcing across the sky! Personally, I like it. Why should Saturn have all the fun? Sterling Webb Graham Christensen wrote: I read an article in the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada journal that said that the Earth once had a ring of tektites or a system of rings around it and when the supercontinent pangea formed, the earth's gravitational field became lop-sided and the tektite material in the ring ended up in an orbital resonance with pangea and the tektites formed a clump or ring arc that was directly over pangea at perigee. When pangea broke up, the resonance dissapeared and the ring arc's orbit began to decay The shape and distribution
Re: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites
Hi, Graham, List. The notion derives from the curious history of the Chant Trace. On February 9, 1913, there were a huge rash of fireball reports stretching from far Western Canada (Regina) across to upper New York state and New York City itself. The numbers of reports were in the hundreds or thousands, and they were of trains of multiple fireballs that passed overhead, followed by more trains of multiple fireballs, followed by more trains of multiple fireballs, a show lasting 10-15 minutes at a time. This is highly unusual, to put it mildly. A Canadian astronomer named Chant investigated it at length and was able to plot a great circle path for these events and to determine that the reports were chronologically compatible, that is, in correct sequence. He concluded that there actually had been a train of hundreds of fireballs chasing themselves across North America. He even found reports from ships at sea, as far away as the South Atlantic off Brazil, that matched up. He published his results in the Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada in 1913, but he never explained what would cause such a remarkable event. It is now referred to as the Chant Trace. In the 1950's, John O'Keefe jumped on the obvious conclusion (which hopefully the sharp ones among us have already guessed) that the only way to account for this was the decay of an object from low earth orbit! He conducted a search of 8,000 local newspapers across the US and Canada for reports of such fireball trains and plotted the results on the map. He discovered that there TWO stripes of fireball trains, parallel to each other but with the second one displaced to the south. Whatever the decaying object was, it survived through TWO passes of the Earth's atmosphere. This argues a substantial object, big, massing millions of pounds, caught in an gravitationally bound geocentric orbit! Now, it may have been a fresh capture, an object that approaches the Earth at low encounter velocities, glazes the atmosphere, is captured, and immediately decays and breaks up, in which the Earth has a second moon for a couple of hours. OR, it could be the final moments of a second moon that has been in place, undetected, for thousands or millions of years. An object of a few hundred meters diameter would never have been detected directly by XIXth century astronomy. But there are all those anomalous transit events from XIXth century astronomers, you know, often touted as proof of the discovery of a new planet, intra-Mercurian. There is a famous case of such a detection during a solar eclipse which didn't pan out, and so forth. Check discoveries of Vulcan. (No, not that Vulcan, Trekites!) O'Keefe coined the term Cyrillids for such objects, but it never caught on. He proposed that the decay of short term natural satellites of a silicate composition was the source of tektites, that the Earth had had four such moons in the last 35 million years, each one creating a tektite strewn field in its final decay, a perfectly good dynamic conclusion, but, you know, folks didn't take to the notion of a lot of extra moons! The idea was revived in the past 20 years by somebody whose name I can't remember, who threw in the notion of rings, also dynamically possible. That's probably the article you saw. I recall a popular article from the mid-80's that was illustrated with an artist's rendering of a tropical island night scene looking out over the ocean with the Earth's Rings arcing across the sky! Personally, I like it. Why should Saturn have all the fun? Sterling Webb Graham Christensen wrote: I read an article in the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada journal that said that the Earth once had a ring of tektites or a system of rings around it and when the supercontinent pangea formed, the earth's gravitational field became lop-sided and the tektite material in the ring ended up in an orbital resonance with pangea and the tektites formed a clump or ring arc that was directly over pangea at perigee. When pangea broke up, the resonance dissapeared and the ring arc's orbit began to decay The shape and distribution of the australasian tektite strewnfield and the ablasion characteristics of the tektites is consistent with a ring arc's orbit decaying and eventually bringing the material crashing to earth at a low angle. Furthermore, the tektites associated with the chesapeake bay crater may in fact have been dragged down by the impactor's gravitational field as it passed through or near the rings and this may be the case with other tektite fields as well. I have the article here on paper but I can't find it on the internet. I'm not sure if this has been posted before but if anyone's interested I could type up the text and E-mail it to the list. ~ Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter msn messenger:
Re: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites
We live in exciting times! Jerry - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites Hi, Graham, List. The notion derives from the curious history of the Chant Trace. On February 9, 1913, there were a huge rash of fireball reports stretching from far Western Canada (Regina) across to upper New York state and New York City itself. The numbers of reports were in the hundreds or thousands, and they were of trains of multiple fireballs that passed overhead, followed by more trains of multiple fireballs, followed by more trains of multiple fireballs, a show lasting 10-15 minutes at a time. This is highly unusual, to put it mildly. A Canadian astronomer named Chant investigated it at length and was able to plot a great circle path for these events and to determine that the reports were chronologically compatible, that is, in correct sequence. He concluded that there actually had been a train of hundreds of fireballs chasing themselves across North America. He even found reports from ships at sea, as far away as the South Atlantic off Brazil, that matched up. He published his results in the Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada in 1913, but he never explained what would cause such a remarkable event. It is now referred to as the Chant Trace. In the 1950's, John O'Keefe jumped on the obvious conclusion (which hopefully the sharp ones among us have already guessed) that the only way to account for this was the decay of an object from low earth orbit! He conducted a search of 8,000 local newspapers across the US and Canada for reports of such fireball trains and plotted the results on the map. He discovered that there TWO stripes of fireball trains, parallel to each other but with the second one displaced to the south. Whatever the decaying object was, it survived through TWO passes of the Earth's atmosphere. This argues a substantial object, big, massing millions of pounds, caught in an gravitationally bound geocentric orbit! Now, it may have been a fresh capture, an object that approaches the Earth at low encounter velocities, glazes the atmosphere, is captured, and immediately decays and breaks up, in which the Earth has a second moon for a couple of hours. OR, it could be the final moments of a second moon that has been in place, undetected, for thousands or millions of years. An object of a few hundred meters diameter would never have been detected directly by XIXth century astronomy. But there are all those anomalous transit events from XIXth century astronomers, you know, often touted as proof of the discovery of a new planet, intra-Mercurian. There is a famous case of such a detection during a solar eclipse which didn't pan out, and so forth. Check discoveries of Vulcan. (No, not that Vulcan, Trekites!) O'Keefe coined the term Cyrillids for such objects, but it never caught on. He proposed that the decay of short term natural satellites of a silicate composition was the source of tektites, that the Earth had had four such moons in the last 35 million years, each one creating a tektite strewn field in its final decay, a perfectly good dynamic conclusion, but, you know, folks didn't take to the notion of a lot of extra moons! The idea was revived in the past 20 years by somebody whose name I can't remember, who threw in the notion of rings, also dynamically possible. That's probably the article you saw. I recall a popular article from the mid-80's that was illustrated with an artist's rendering of a tropical island night scene looking out over the ocean with the Earth's Rings arcing across the sky! Personally, I like it. Why should Saturn have all the fun? Sterling Webb Graham Christensen wrote: I read an article in the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada journal that said that the Earth once had a ring of tektites or a system of rings around it and when the supercontinent pangea formed, the earth's gravitational field became lop-sided and the tektite material in the ring ended up in an orbital resonance with pangea and the tektites formed a clump or ring arc that was directly over pangea at perigee. When pangea broke up, the resonance dissapeared and the ring arc's orbit began to decay The shape and distribution of the australasian tektite strewnfield and the ablasion characteristics of the tektites is consistent with a ring arc's orbit decaying and eventually bringing the material crashing to earth at a low angle. Furthermore, the tektites associated with the chesapeake bay crater may in fact have been dragged down by the impactor's gravitational field as it passed through or near the rings and this may be the case with other tektite fields as well. I have
